/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14936693]

When do we get to Caesarism?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14936711]

About two thousand years ago

[Anonymous No.14936733]

>>14936711
That was classical civilization hitting Caesarism I'm asking when do Faustian cultures hit Caesarism.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14936793]

>>14936733
No.

[Anonymous No.14936959]

>>14936693
>abridged edition

[Anonymous No.14936963]

Everyone hoped Trump would be Caesar. But it seems not.

[Anonymous No.14936969]

Soon

[Anonymous No.14937060]

>>14936693
Since 1991 it has begun.
In a few years we will have rich strongman that will be powerfull enough to surpass western institutions

[Anonymous No.14937110]

Never.

Books by men like Oswald Spengler are not meant to be read as sacred texts with prophetic content. They are to be read for specific insights concerning the times they lived in and the process by which we arrived at Clown World. Don't take him, or anyone else for that matter, too literally.

[Anonymous No.14937119]

When you have sex.
So never

[Anonymous No.14937279]

Around 2100.

[Anonymous No.14938368]

I haven't read Spengler yet because I am still stuck reading early 19th century philosophy, but if he prophesizes the Caesarean age to start then the west would still have some 500 years of survival and the most prosperous time still lie ahead.

[Anonymous No.14938388]

>>14936793
That’s not an answer tranny

[Anonymous No.14938445]

>>14936963
Only utter retards did.

[Anonymous No.14938671]

>>14936711
>>14936793
I unironically pray that you die painfully every day that I read one of your posts

[Anonymous No.14938734]

Napoleon came and went my friend.

[Anonymous No.14938842]

>>14936963
Well, we got Nero. That's something, right?

[Anonymous No.14939311]

>>14938734
Napoleon was our Alexander, not our Caesar.

[Anonymous No.14939315]

>>14936963
Trump is Sulla or Marius. Caesar is coming. We'll get him, mark my words.

[Anonymous No.14939320]

How do you define Caesarism? Is it just a a based charisatic chad entering a bloated, failed system and shaking things up?

[Anonymous No.14939365]

Whenever the reincarnation of Hitler comes into power.

[Anonymous No.14939638]

>>14936693
I think our breakdown will be more like the Roman or Greek Dark Ages.

[Anonymous No.14939686]

>>14938368
>the most prosperous years are still ahead.
You realize we have an aging population, right? Aging populations are typically found to have two things. 1. An economy built on service rather than innovation. 2. A society based on introspection rather than expansion.
I give us 50 years, tops, before we go into serious decline. We're already seeing signs of it.

[Anonymous No.14940421]

>>14939320
When civilization has become so flattened out that nothing has true value anymore, when society has dissolved into a broad mass of faceless interdependents, when men become so obscenely wealthy that wealth itself becomes worthless, that is when the one individual who is still capable of distinguishing himself becomes an object of worship for the formless masses.

Celebrity worship is Caesarism, at least an embryonic form of it. When millions of individual people are reduced to a number of followers on social media to feed the insatiable ego of pathological online narcissists, that is how you know society is heading down a very dark path.

[Anonymous No.14940465]

>>14936693
Today's liberalism is caesarism

[Anonymous No.14940595]

>>14939365
>Hitler
>a pagan

[Anonymous No.14941241]

>>14940595
hitler was LITERALLY a nazi

[Anonymous No.14941370]

>>14940421
How will digitization affect the manifeststion of ceaserism? Spengler certainly didnt forsee the internet

[Anonymous No.14941594]

>>14939315
Trump is Crassus. Rich real estate mogul with the kind of low cunning that amasses wealth and power but doesn't make for a good leader. Might lose his head in a badly thought out Middle Eastern campaign.

[Anonymous No.14941613]

>>14939311
Who was Hitler then? Germany as Carthage to the Anglo Rome with Hitøer as Hannibal?

[Anonymous No.14941618]

>>14936693
t. Black Pigeon Speaks

[Anonymous No.14941780]

>>14938671
he's literally the most retarded guy on this shithole, and I'm willing to bet that in a few years he'll neck himself, I mean I can not think of something more pathetic than tripfagging on an anonymous image board

[Anonymous No.14942015]

Napoleon was the closest we've gotten to a modern day Caesar and was probably our last chance. As usual, the Anglos ruined everything.

[Anonymous No.14942029]

>>14941618
His channel has been completely cucked, there used to be good content but his video on MGTOW was cringe and uninformed. He's partnered with advertisers now so he can't speak openly anyways, gotta do anything to keep that monetization.

[Anonymous No.14942030]

>>14941613
Hitler was Mohamed

[Anonymous No.14943134]

>>14942015
Napoleon was Alexander whose function is to destroy archaic institutions to spread the superior culture (Hellenism/Industrial Democracy), Spengler makes fun of people who compare him to Caesar in the Decline of the West. Caesar's function becomes needful when money-buys-politics model becomes unsupportable because life is unendurable for everyone but the small patrician class, and all is ready to be abandoned to one competent man who will call shots and at least bring law and order to anarchic corruption

[Anonymous No.14943633]

>>14941370
But the Internet is the most Faustian of all inventions. Through modern technology Western man has attained godlike omniscience. Technology doesn't hasten or prevent the civilization cycle, it flows perfectly in time with it.

What do we want to DO with technology? We want to become God. Through cars, planes, telephone, television, the Internet, we have become artificially omniscient, like the God we have abandoned. God is no longer the model of perfection that inspired Newton and Mozart, the Man-That-Is-God has become the perverse object of perfection instead. The dream of creating artificial intelligence is the peak of Western technology fetishism.

Therefore technology shouldn't be looked at just as an object. The relationship between modern Western man and technology is more like the Hegelian subject-object, it is both subject and objects, where we both create technology and it creates us. It can't have any effect on the civilization cycle.

[Anonymous No.14943776]

>>14939315
>>14941594
This means the faustian caesar was born already.
Who is he?

[Anonymous No.14943844]

>>14936693
It's a gradual process, you stupid niggers. Caesar-like figures will come and go but the real Caesar will eventually arrive. We have from here to before 2200 (the date where the new cycle begins).

[Anonymous No.14943962]

>>14943776

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14943984]

>>14941780
Stale pasta. 0/10
Really pathetic

>>14938388
What do you not understand?

[Anonymous No.14944038]

>>14939315
>>14941594
>>14943776
He would have to be extremely young, because Spengler believes democracy and the media are the current servants of international finance, so these institutions would have to crash and burn within our generation for a leader to take up the reins in their collapse. Spengler believes both liberalism (our current failing system) and socialism (which is gaining traction among young Americans) are merely different sides of the same coin since they serve money in equally strong ways. The pursuit and concentration of money, to be clear, is the main source of the Faustian nature of the modern West. I think we'll see a complete stagnation of democracy by the 2030s, followed by a failed attempt at a socialist state, and in those ruins a modern-day Caesar - likely with no political experience and a strong personality cult - will arise. I doubt this will happen in our lifetimes though. The system of international finance is still too resistant to shocks and fatal attacks - and yes, that includes the coronachan meme.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14944050]

>Lost boys trying to force a prophecy

[Anonymous No.14944068]

>>14944050
A kaiser will come, there's no doubt about it.

[Anonymous No.14944075]

>>14938671
based

[Anonymous No.14944181]

>>14943776

Satoshi Nakamoto

[Anonymous No.14944233]

>>14943776
Me

[Anonymous No.14944597]

We are witnessing the death of liberalism. Iraq war and failure of arab spring caused crisis of faith in liberal elite and masses are turning to socialism or fascism-lite. Look at corona response and people fawning for strongman. Spengler might be wrong, who knows, but democracy is all but dead regardless.

[Anonymous No.14944629]

>>14944597
Good riddance.

[Anonymous No.14944659]

>>14936959
have you even read a word of spengler, anon?

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14944682]

>>14944068
Not till you order one.

[Anonymous No.14944833]

>>14943776
probably me

[Anonymous No.14946122]

>>14941780
>he
It's a 5/10 lesbian who's been a stain on this board for years.

[Anonymous No.14946136]

>>14943984
You are mistaken, not me. No is not an answer to a question of when, despite your faggotry clouding your mind.

[Anonymous No.14946672]

this is a good book. people are reading it

[Anonymous No.14946705]

>>14937060
>rich strongman
Caesarism is literally a revolt against materialism and monied politics, a rich person like Trump could ergo have never plausibly been a Caesar-esque figure.

[Anonymous No.14946707]

>>14938368
>I haven't read Spengler
Yes, it clearly shows from your completely retarded post, faggot.
Read him before commenting.

[Anonymous No.14946759]

>tfw spengler says western civilisation will end around the year 2200
we have 180 more years of this horse shit

[Anonymous No.14946780]

>>14946705
who the fuck do you think caesar was you fucking moron

[Anonymous No.14946790]

>>14946705
In addition to this>>14946780
one of Trump's main selling points was the fact that he couldn't be bought, a revolt against people like Jeb! who were propped up by wealthy donors

[Anonymous No.14946841]

>>14946780
He was an aristocratic military general, not a capital property developer.

[Anonymous No.14946849]

>>14946841
capitalist*

[Anonymous No.14946934]

>>14940595
He certainly wasn't christian beyond his childhood years. But yeah, go ahead and post that picture of those german soldiers staring at a cross

[Anonymous No.14946956]

>>14944038
>>14943776
>>14946705
>strong personality cult
>no political experience

Our faustian Caesar already exists and he's Canadian. This man will save western civilization. Pajeets, Changs and Rabbis beware.
>created a cult around self improvment and hardcore long fasting
>preaches self improvement, discipline and acesticism

[Anonymous No.14947001]

>>14936693
Shit you be sayin we wuz legion n shit?

[Anonymous No.14947138]

>>14946705
>>14946841
>Implying caesar was not rich
He didnt represent the rich class but he was rich himself. Insanely rich

[Anonymous No.14947159]

>>14947138
I would like to add that trump is not the faustian caesar but whoever comes after him will probably be

[Anonymous No.14947184]

not Spengler

[Anonymous No.14947323]

>>14946122
I haven't seen a single timestamp.

[Anonymous No.14947556]

>>14936693
I've been meaning to read this for a while

Does it require prior knowledge/reading?

[Anonymous No.14947571]

Evangelical Christianity, which has heavy reactionary and mystical tones, is the 'Second Religiousness' prophesized by Spengler before the height of Civilization and Caesarism.

Coincidentally. American-style Evangelical Christianity is the fastest growing religion in the world.

Caesar will arrive when the tension between the rural Evangelicals and the cosmopolitan rationalist-materialistic class reaches a boiling point. We're well on the way.

[Anonymous No.14947613]

>>14946934
He was Christian in the modern sense, and that is the sense of Wagner; We are speaking of ideals, man! The idea of which it is placed of its time and of itself. Not some typical fool of prancing explication that he is a "modern man". Because don't you know? He is so modern, no explanation is needed for you to see this has nothing to do with modern. But modern man scientifically like Jung defined, is something on a whole separate from the arts and religiosophies with which We(--I) talk.

[Anonymous No.14947618]

>>14947613
You are either a genius or a idiot.

[Anonymous No.14947828]

>>14936711
Holy fuck, you illiterate swine haven't even read the work in question.
Just kill yourself already

[Anonymous No.14947842]

Spengler was krauto-centric.

[Anonymous No.14948002]

>>14947159
>whoever comes after him will probably be
Not even in your wildest dream. Whoever comes after him will most likely be someone who will "correct" Trump's "bigoted policies".

[Anonymous No.14948254]

>>14936693
>G*rmanic history horseshit
No thanks.

[Anonymous No.14948261]

>>14947613
>Wagner
>Christian
Nope lol.

[Anonymous No.14948274]

>>14948261
Are you fucking serious?

[Anonymous No.14948411]

>>14944233
No! I am Caesar!

[Anonymous No.14948467]

>>14948261

[Anonymous No.14948536]

>>14947556
Yes, but it's too much you might as well read it without any previous lecture
He is unironically one of the most knowledgeable philosophers, it will take years to read what it's needed to underatand The Decline, judt dive into it

[Anonymous No.14948560]

Can any Spenglanons redpill me on what's gonna happen to America & Europe once Russia/Eurasia becomes ascendant? Can we be a comfy, White, inward looking Christian culture such as a Neo-Baroque or are we set on another path?

[Anonymous No.14948571]

>>14948560
Anon theblast few hundred years was our inward looking Culture, Caesar signals the beginning of the Second Religiousness and Imperium, where Civilization exerts itself on the outside to its fullest potential. In Roman terms, we havent even conquered Gaul, Britain, Egypt, Syria, Anatolia, etc.

[Anonymous No.14948584]

Romes Caesarian age began in 100bc and ours in 2000, which means Caesar was probably born in the 90s or 00s

[Anonymous No.14949084]

>>14948560
That's wishful thinking sadly, if you want to know our fate just look at the classical world. As with Rome, America will likely collapse into nothing as our global economic system falls and our political system becomes a series of Caesars, our name will still strike fear into the world long after we are capable of backing it up but eventually people will realize our tiredness and we will be destroyed by a far weaker power. Western Europe will survive in a stagnant state similar to the Byzantines or China in the past 700 years or so

[Anonymous No.14949133]

>>14947613
you're a retard

[Anonymous No.14949231]

>>14948560
It would be like what happened when Magian culture emerged and conflicted with the Roman empire. Early Magian culture was smothered by the decaying corpse of Rome, but it also began infiltrating and replacing Roman culture from the inside. The Pantheon was the world's first Mosque as Spengler writes. By the time Christianity was spreading through the Roman empire, Classical civilization was completely dead. The pupils bored into the eyes of Christian Roman sculptures convey the same piercing gaze that the Pantheon's oculus does.

Russia has already had Western values forced on it by Peter the Great. Tchaikovsky and Tolstoy were Westerners, not Russians. Lenin's revolution was a rebellion against Petrinism and Western imperialism, as was Mao's in China. What the future holds nobody can say, only that Russia will forever despise the West and all Western values.

[Anonymous No.14950575]

>>14948002
You are right but not in the way you imagine.
Giving money away to the masses to correct "injustice" and attacking people instead of parties or ideas is quite caesarian in Spengler's view.

[Anonymous No.14950612]

>>14948467
he was just pretending

[Anonymous No.14950648]

>>14949084
but what about the nukes

WHAT ABOUT THE NUKES

[Anonymous No.14951966]

>>14949084
>Western Europe will survive in a stagnant state similar to the Byzantines
ERE was comfy and /fa/ so I can rest easy with this.

[Anonymous No.14952101]

>>14950648
What do you mean? Are you referring to America using nukes to defend against the weaker power? The problem is that the weaker power will likely win subtly. With the Goths who sacked Rome they weren't really a foreign nation, they were tribal mercenaries who eventually realized Rome's weakness and turned on her when the opportunity presented itself. If I had to guess I would say that America will gradually come to be controlled at the ground level by Mexican drug cartels or something similar, not really a situation you can use nukes on

[Anonymous No.14952538]

>>14948560
Wishful thinking, but I city-states will make a comeback, with currencies backed by an atomized digital currency (Cubits), and the city which houses this new monetary standard will become the de-facto capital of the world.

I'm rooting for Detroit.

[Anonymous No.14952811]

>>14936733
what does it mean to be a faustian culture?

[Anonymous No.14952834]

>>14948560
Retarded picture.

>>14948584
>or 00s
oh yeah.

[Anonymous No.14953262]

>>14952811
How about you read the fucking book to find out?

[Anonymous No.14953310]

>>14952811
It's European and by extent American culture, that began to grow as a great civilization in the Medieval period, distinct from "Apollonian" civilization of Rome and Greece before.

[Anonymous No.14953315]

>>14952811
>>14953310
It's called "Faustian" by Spengler as an allusion to Faust. Western civilization entering this "Faustian" bargain.

[Anonymous No.14953317]

>>14953310
That doesn't answer the question "what it means to be faustian" for a culture

[Anonymous No.14953377]

>>14952834
why’s it retarded

[Anonymous No.14953464]

>>14949231
Non-Islamic Magian culture is undeniably superior to Faustian culture. You have to be a depraved lunatic to say otherwise.

[Anonymous No.14953472]

>>14948536
I think the prior reading stuff is overrated, a general knowledge of Nietzsche is important, but Spengler is very good at explaining his ideas and the ideas of the thinkers who he draws from.

[Anonymous No.14953479]

>>14947828
This stupid bitch doesn't read anything that isn't Marxist literature.
Stop giving her (You)s

[Anonymous No.14953494]

>>14948560
Russia was not deemed a High Culture by Spengler

[Anonymous No.14953909]

>>14953494
Russia is the next upcoming high culture according to Spengler

[Anonymous No.14953922]

>>14948560
Slavs aren’t white Dimitry

[Anonymous No.14953996]

>>14946759
Watching a decline is more Faustian in tragedy than the comedy of ascendancy.

[Anonymous No.14954008]

>>14948571
Gaul is mars and the moon. The only true Faustian empire and realm is that amongst the stars

[Anonymous No.14954017]

>>14947138
He lost everything due to his father but proved himself over and over again in numerous battles until he became so popular he was pretty much forced to take on a leading role. Trump is not the same, he inherited everything yet did fuck all except arrive at the perfect time and place for the presidency.

[Anonymous No.14954037]

>>14953909
Potentially only. They will be subsumed by the west like the rest of the misbegotten fellaheen

[Anonymous No.14954213]

>>14954017
I agree that trump is not the same what I meant is that caesar acquired money while "proving himself" as you put it. He was not poor.

[Anonymous No.14954599]

>>14936693
We're in the coronation.

>>14936711
Aryan Spengler with correct predictions, kike Marx with false prophecies.

[Anonymous No.14954762]

>>14948261
This is next level low IQ posting

[Anonymous No.14954773]

>history is cyclical
Very gay premise, I'm sure there's a lot of value in the book but from that starting point I can tell you with a certainty that he's also very wrong about a lot

[Anonymous No.14954810]

>>14954017
>he inherited everything
No he didn't. At best you can argue that he lucked out being born to a father who ran a small yet successful construction company who could give him an insight into real-estate and development, but the actual Trump Fortune (which is comparatively small, at his wealthiest Trump was only like 289th wealthiest in the world) is all him.

>b-but muh loan fron daddy for $1mil john oliver said...
One million dollars at 12% interest rate for real estate development at that time was fucking chump, anon.

[Anonymous No.14954834]

>>14948560
>once Russia/Eurasia becomes ascendant
Xaxaxaxaxa. Lel.
>t. actually live in this dead shithole being strip-looted by Britain, Germany and the US

Also this chart is bullshit in regards to the supposed Russian civilization. It is a transplant of Western culture as much as the USA are, if anything the 100 years of communism erased whatever was distinct in it.

[Anonymous No.14954845]

>>14949231
>Lenin's revolution was a rebellion against Petrinism and Western imperialism
You have zero clue what are you writing about. Zero. 0. None. Everything post-1917 is one unending genocide of anything Russian. USSR is as much Russia as Congo Colony is Belgium.

[Anonymous No.14954849]

>>14954773
Every single prediction of Spengler's up until this current day has come true. Whether his further predictions are true or not is yet to be seen. However, he predicted 9/11, and the precise year of Nazi Germany's fall, both of which are fun.

>>14953317
See >>14948560. Spengler's idea is that civilizations (a technical term to him, but whatever) have a "Prime Symbol". Essentially a physical thing, usually some kind of natural feature, that describes their entire worldview. Think of it as Primitive Man staring it and saying "Yes, I understand everything, THIS is how the world works". Egypt is a good example: The Nile is the source of all good, but also the source of bad (floods, alligators, hippo, disease). The Nile's reasons are unknowable, but its mechanisms are entirely understandable. The Nile can be predicted, but now known; a how, not a why. The Egyptians spent an enormous amount of effort thus on understanding the world as a physical system, with little regard to the "Why" of it.

This is emphasized in their prime symbol, the Pyramid, which is actually a man-made mountain with man-made caves within it. The Pyramid represents their view of the world: a small habitable corridor (the pyramid passageways representing the land around the Nile), and worthless impassable territory all around it (the thick stone representing the deserts, which were effectively worthless and impassable).

They didn't consciously set out to create this "hurf durf le pyramid is le world", but rather their worldview influenced their architecture such that only people who valued these things and thought like this could make such a building (other cultures that build Pyramids do NOT build them at all similar to Egyptian ones).

[Anonymous No.14954863]

>>14954008
I'm ready

[Anonymous No.14954874]

>>14946759
Isn't that just when he says the wheels will start falling off in terms of the power of America/(America's empire)?
More like 380+ years.

[Anonymous No.14954883]

>>14954849
So Faustian civilization is the one born of the post-Roman Germanic peoples. Their prime symbol is the Forest, which is a 2D existence (the forest floor) filled with stuff (the trees). However, the trees arch upwards, filling that 2D world with 3D possibility. That possibility, itself infinite, is the defining characteristic of Faustian society. Faustian man sees space and is filled with a desire to fill it, stretching infinitely in every direction. Faustian man can go anywhere, do anything, and dream anything. Where other cultures say "No, it is not for us to go there for X, Y, and Z" Faustian man says "lmfao far off place I WILL GO THERE", Faustian man says "lmfao high up place I WILL CLIMB IT". Faustian man is the only one that could have ever gotten to the moon (it's a testament to this that America, the most Faustian of places and peoples, still leads the world in Space Travel even as it rots).

The Cathedral is this given architectural form: height and light, space stretching both to the sides leading UP, into the sky. Russia gets 2D space, but Faustian man gets 3D space, as Faustian man looks up, and that up is filled with things (light, architecture, Poor Man's Bibles, etc).

>>14954845
>>14954834
For what it's worth, Spengler's prediction is that literally everything except America dies in literal and metaphorical nuclear hellfire, so you can take joy in that I guess.

[Anonymous No.14954892]

>>14954849
Imho pyramids were also based on the wadis
Which matches the usual egyptian temple layout of a narrowing passage branching off perpendicularly to the nile
It's also gotta be based on the types of shapes in pic related, as well as the similar 45 degree sides of the wadis at folks drive up them

[Anonymous No.14954905]

>>14936693
Corona-chan is our Caesar.
Everyone is hiding in fear of her, and degenerate globalism was BTFO'd overnight.

[Anonymous No.14954918]

>>14954892
I'm not disagreeing with you (you're probably right), I'm just elaborating Spengler's theories. I view Spengler's whole art-and-science-made-one thing as very useful as a tool, but not something to be taken as gospel. He's clearly onto something, and while his theory may be predictive, his methods are... novel. Like, why is Egypt a unique civilization, but Japan isn't? Why is Sumer Magean? Why is Russia its own thing and not just a part of Faustian? Where does Central Asia fit? If you subject Spengler to autism then it all falls apart.

Which isn't bad, but its fluidity needs to be taken into account, and I assert my authority as a gentile to pick Spengler's theories apart as much as I please.

[Anonymous No.14954994]

>>14954918
Japan was provincial China and then western after 1830. Russia straddle the occidental and oriental and cannot decide which it wants. All your other questions he covers in his oeuvre.

[Anonymous No.14955016]

>>14954918
>but Japan isn't
This I would disagree with Spengler about.
It's clearly its own thing where the uniting thread of the culture is something like a lack of division between form and essence.
If anyone else would like to offer a different take on what makes Japanese things Japanese, please do.

>Why is Sumer Magean
Didn't he say it was Mesopotamian, not Magian?

Russia I can clearly see a rationale for. They have a way more different feel to them than other Euros, and actually bunch up with T*rks when overseas.
Their culture is all about horizontal extension:
-Fans of mushrooms
-Adidas while squatting
-Horizontal feet flicking dance
-The flat plain of the Pontic steppe
-Their relatively horizontally extending onion domes (maybe a halfway to horizontality, like the adidas stripes on their shoes)
-Their tendency to build long buildings to show off, rather than sky scrapers
-I can't go on because I know almost nothing about Russia
-Apparently Spengler had some linguistic rationales for his belief that they didn't like upward stuff and preferred horizontal
-Idk maybe them liking chess? That's horizontal extension across a plain

NB: I have only read fragments and summaries of spengy

[Anonymous No.14955042]

>>14954849
>>14954883
Great posts, thanks anon

[Anonymous No.14955050]

>>14954994
I'm being rhetorical here, I understand within his theories there's explanations of this stuff. I'm merely using these as examples of subjecting is works to the autism that treats history and the like as rigid sciences instead of arts.

[Anonymous No.14955053]

>>14954994
>Japan was provincial China and then western after 1830
ey oh that's a yikes from me pal
It was both of those things, sure, but tea ceremony, fetishism, slice of life anime, their art style which is very bound up with the qualities of the material itself, their obsession with uniforms, zazen (just sitting), hyper politeness, the way they make visually exaggerated and aesthetically obsessed versions of western things shorn of most of their other features
All these are lack-of-form-and-essence culture
Sorry libtards
And so is their craftsmanship
The Japanese person does it to do it, and for them the object is itself and a thing becomes itself as a result of its form, not because it's secretly, truly some thing. That's gay af
A thing is a thing because of its specific traits

I've explained this better in other threads long 404'd, but I hope someone is getting the jist.

Like how zen in Japan is "just sitting" and the point is sitting. It's not some second thing. Chop wood, carry water. All that.
It's what makes them such good craftsfolx.

[Anonymous No.14955060]

>>14954994
*lack-of-distinction-between-force-and-essence, rather

[Anonymous No.14955064]

>>14955016
>Their culture is all about horizontal extension
The flat space is also egalitarian in nature. It brings all the people on the same level.
I'd say that this is why communism could take such a powerful grip on their culture, but I'm not sure about that

[Anonymous No.14955091]

>>14954994
I might even add that their tendency to soddoku after losing their job or a defeat is very lack-of-distinction-between-form-and-essence.
A man is the room he is standing in and all that.
The way they identify themselves and are identified as "Namerson Name, Student" etc.
The way they find particular highly aesthetic mountains holy (or just Fuji, I'm a little out of my deapth I'll admit - also it's coming up on midnight here)

>>14954918
He made a lot of contributions.
I think Central Asia is pretty plain-without-limit/(that is, Russian), based on seeing the aesthetic similarities between West China and Turkey and Slavland, as well as getting similar vibes from the folk, and the folkz hanging out together
*sips smoked tea through a sugar cube*
*hopes that that combo of stereotypes is actually accurate*

Tbh Spengy is btfo by both Adorno and Mark Brahmin in that they point out that recognising a pattern opens the potential for its transcendence, but I'd be interested if anyone has any btfos for that btfo

[Anonymous No.14955114]

>>14955091
>recognising a pattern opens the potential for its transcendence
Could you elaborate on that point, please. I'm quite interested in finding a counter-btfo

[Anonymous No.14955120]

>>14955091
I've seen analyses of the Japanese as being incredibly place oriented. I'll see if I can dig it up. It's an absolutely fascinating premise even if it's just outright wrong.

Found it! Here:

http://www.nihonbunka.com/shinto/#Japanese_Society_and

This ties into both the Yakuza ("crime is acceptable in crime-places"), and ("if I am in a weird place I must be weird").

[Anonymous No.14955126]

>>14954883
>one born of the post-Roman Germanic peoples. Their prime symbol is the Forest, which is a 2D existence (the forest floor) filled with stuff (the trees).
I take it there are no forests in the Mediterranean region nor in Eastern Europe, so neither Graeco-Roman people nor Slavic could think in 3d. So the only way for such a symbol to be meaningful is to give it an arbitrary meaning beforehand, so anything Germanic people supposedly invented on their own had nothing intrinsically to do with their habitat.
>so you can take joy in that I guess.
Why would I. No amount of other peoples' suffering would reverse a death of a nation.
Imma just poking at some Germanic autist's armchair fantasies.

>>14955016
>-Fans of mushrooms
As are Romance and Finnic peoples. Only Germanic and Celtic people are afraid to eat shrooms for some reason.
>-Adidas while squatting
Lel so random.
>-Horizontal feet flicking dance
A caricature barely known to the Muscovites, utterly unknown to Ukrainians and Belarusians. Basically a foreign made-up Orientalist pretend, like le Russky Bear made by British Jews as a caricature.
>-The flat plain of the Pontic steppe
Not populated until XVII century at the earliest, properly settled less than 300 years ago. Relevant to Ukraine only. Russians do not think in steppes, Muscovy used to be heavily forested and is still marshy. There are no Russian cultural symbols for anything to do with steppes, except some 900 years old epics where Steppe=Nomads=Alien_Warzone. Cossacks were a different nation, 95% of East Slavic folk had fuck all to do with them.
>-Their relatively horizontally extending onion domes
Pic.
>-Their tendency to build long buildings to show off, rather than sky scrapers
Royal Palace of Caserta for Sukharev Tower.
>-I can't go on because I know almost nothing about Russia
It shows.

tl;dr German amrchair dreamer imagines things for future Germans to autistically obsess over.
Nostradamus for modern young men basically.

[Anonymous No.14955139]

>>14955064
>I'd say that this is why communism could take such a powerful grip on their culture
When communists kill 50% of your city folk in 2 years by starvation and open terror, they'll grip you by the balls no problem. St. Petersburg, a city larger than Berlin or Chicago, lost 75% of its original population in less that 2 years, and Moscow, barely smaller, over half, with similar death rates for other cities.
Total absolute irreversible collapse of civilization from simultaneous inside jobs of Germany, AH and then Britain.

[Anonymous No.14955158]

>>14955126
This is the kind of stuff I was talking about in
>>14955050
>>14954918
Subjecting Spengler to intense analysis ("only Germanics had forests???") makes his stuff fall apart pretty quickly. There are others who have taken his works further (Toynbee took it from like 8 civilizations to 39 or something?), which is fun.

[Anonymous No.14955183]

>>14955114
Basically, if we see the cycles of civilisation, then we no longer have to passively allow them to happen. We can try to do things differently.

I think there's also a btfo of Spengler in emphasising the sheer level of continuity in culture/civilisation between ancient Mesopotamia and the contemporary West (as well as even other parts of the world). Although I'm not familiar with anyone other than myself who might have said this (but it's probably occured to other people). Basically, taking Spengler's splitting of the Classical-Middle Ages-Renaissance-Now linear history into different threads all acting the same way but starting at different times and having different motifs, and saying, yeah ok, but you're *really not getting how much continuity there's been* and pointing to things like the amount of continuity in our religious and mathematical culture, not to mention our alphabet, with the Middle East. As well as similar continuities to the East and down into Africa. (To give an example: If you go to the Temple of Heaven in Beijing, you can see Qing dynasty writing in Manchu script that ultimately derives from Egyptian hieroglyphs.)

>>14955126
>A caricature barely known to the Muscovites, utterly unknown to Ukrainians and Belarusians.
Sure Ivan
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1PAO3jgmXY
Which reminds me:
The horizontal stripes in your military singlets (yeah, I know, originally a Breton pattern, but y'all went nuts for it)
The very-far-horizontally-extending tops of your military caps

>Lel so random.
Well, am I wrong though?

>Not populated until XVII century at the earliest
There was no one on the steps until the 17th century? Come on, anon.

>>14955158
>only Germanics had forests
Is a retarded critique.
I'm not familiar enough with Spengy to fully grasp his position on the relationship of land to culture, but is it impossible for a cultural trend to start from a particular environment and then spread with the people from that environment? Cause I can see that.
Either that or it works in some way we don't understand.
But denying the pattern is churlish.

[Anonymous No.14955192]

>>14955158
Read his book, he never said stuff like "only germanics have forest".
He also said that the roots of faustian culture are way deeper than that, and come from the bronze age. He theorizes a connection between the sea people from "Iberia and Sardinia" and faustian culture

[Anonymous No.14955226]

>>14936693
Based sea urchin book

[Anonymous No.14955330]

>>14955158
Spengler's geographical inspiration for the high cultures is by far the weakest part of his theory. He was so convinced that geography is the origin of the prime symbol that he unironically cited a pseudoscience study saying that the shape of a person's skull depends on which part of the world they live, even if their parents are not originally from there. He also said that America would be more like native American primitive culture than European Faustian, and that American skyscrapers are pseudo-Faustian teepees. He goes to great lengths throughout The Decline of the West to advance his theory that the ancient Sea Peoples who raided the middle east around the time of the Bronze Age Collapse were actually nascent Faustian Germanic tribes. It's not just once or twice he brings it up, he frequently returns to the theory throughout the book.

Spengler was not a religious man and had no true understanding of what it means to be religious. He is correct that there are vast similarities between Germanic myth and the abstraction of Catholic Christianity. But I think putting that down to both originating in the spatial feeling of ancient forests is just wrong. The prime symbol has to originate in religion, the whole concept doesn't make any sense when applied to other high cultures otherwise. We therefore have to assume that the vast majority of Germanic myth has been tampered with by medieval Christian writers to explain the similarities.

We can substitute Spengler's theory of the geographical origin of the prime symbol for Giambattista Vico's theory of religious imaginative universals i.e. that a certain religious style develops out of the vivid imaginations of primitive men, and it is from this that high cultures are born, completely independent of geography.

[Anonymous No.14955337]

>>14955330
Shoo Jonesposter

[Anonymous No.14955340]

>>14955337
I don't know who that is.

[Anonymous No.14955366]

>>14955340
My apologies then. The Catholic intellectual E Michael Jones is a big Vico fan, and talks to dissident right racialists, so someone who had read Spengler would likely know them. I assumed you were a tradcath going into geography-denial in order to preserve the otherworldliness of Catholicism, while your Vico reference and the idea of primitive folks making shit up and then becoming logical sounded like Jonesian logos talk to me.
I haven't read Spengler, so I don't know about his skyscraper comments. Is that from Spengler himself, or from John David Ebert's summary on YouTube? Not an insult, legit question. Ebert made that point that the American skyline looks like pueblos.
In any case, I see no real holes poked in nature inspiring a culture here.
I think there could be other things, but it fits pretty well to me, although more research is of course needed.

[Anonymous No.14955377]

>>14955183
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1PAO3jgmXY [Embed]
Wanna know how many people dance it outside of special Soviet army clowns? You already do.
>Well, am I wrong though?
Gopniks are a subculture of ghetto petty criminals. They 'squat' because prisons lack chairs to sit on and they supposedly emulate inmates. It is a full equivalent of a hood nigger strolling around with his pants down because he thinks he emulates inmates.
You judge several peoples by a ~50 years old subculture of ghetto petty criminals.
>There was no one on the steps until the 17th century?
Yes. The Wild Fields. The Green Desert. Several tens of thousands Nogais would ride around for pasture, preventing colonization until firearms became prevalent. The major Russian conquest of Mongol Muslims were the conquest of Kazan and Astrakhan khanates mid XVI century. Both are cities along the Volga river, with the forest-steppe region between Oka and Volga rivers colonized slowly in waves, each based of a Limes-like wall of fortresses. And that's with some help from Don Cossacks offshoot hosts.
The Izum Line was finished in 1680, that's the time the forest-steppe was being settled properly with no more YOLO Nogais or Crimeans riding in to enslave and pillage. And that's the forest-steppe, the steppe proper was domain of Zaporozhie and Don Cossacks, basically Slavic-speaking nomads the XIX century British propaganda liked to parade as if the whole of East Slavdom were some Steppe Niggers.

That's where the German armchair historian got his glorious idea of a Steppe Civilization. For fucks sake, the Cossacks raided Slavic peasants as much as any Turk did until they had major firearms showed up their asses, just because they spoke some Ukrainian runaway tongue didn't make them Russian until at least after Razin's revolt.
Interesting enough, the Razin's Revolt happened all along the Belgorod Limes and in-around the Don forest-steppe in 1671. Basically the last uprising of the nomads. How long into the XVII century is 1671 again?
Not that was a major Mongol Chimpout.

>Is a retarded critique
Calling me names is not an argument. Forest are aplenty all along Europe, except the Forest-Steppe on the East. Try some basic Semantics again.

>but is it impossible for a cultural trend to start from a particular environment and then spread with the people from that environment?
Yes. Symbols are imaginary and arbitrary. They do not exist independently of humans and are assigned at random, hence why absolute majority of them are so different in different cultures.
A tree is a fact, while there are thousands upon thousands of tree-symbols. Which have fuck all to do with a biological entity of a certain plant species except maybe graphical resemblance. This is XIX century Semiotics we're talking about, not rocket science.
Spengler assigned cultural traits to civilizations based on their locations. This is backwards reasoning - a culture gives meaning to its surroundings, not the other way around

[Anonymous No.14955380]

>>14936693
/VbZw6HE

[Anonymous No.14955385]

>>14953464
>kikes calling anyone else depraved or a lunatic
never fails to make me kek

[Anonymous No.14955395]

>>14954849
>Every single prediction of Spengler's up until this current day has come true. Whether his further predictions are true or not is yet to be seen. However, he predicted 9/11, and the precise year of Nazi Germany's fall, both of which are fun
>>>/x/

[Anonymous No.14955411]

>>14955366
Spengler and Vico are just two of my favorite philosophers. I haven't heard of this Jones person.
>the idea of primitive folks making shit up and then becoming logical
That's pretty much Vico's theory summed up in one sentence.
>Ebert made that point that the American skyline looks like pueblos.
Since you mention that, I am probably misremembering it. It's been a long time since I listened to those lectures. Spengler definitely cited that study about skull shape though, it's in The Decline somewhere.

>I see no real holes poked in nature inspiring a culture here.
Basically Spengler thought that Germanic/Viking myth and Catholic Christianity both constituted an early form of Faustian high culture. He thought Christianity was changed by the Germanic world feeling when it came to Europe, a theory which has by now been debunked. It's more likely to me that Christianity developed independently and was the instigator of the birth of Faustian culture. Therefore the Sea Peoples could not have been Faustian at all, and the prime symbol arose from religion, not from geography.

[Anonymous No.14955445]

>>14955377
>Several tens of thousands Nogais would ride around for pasture, preventing colonization until firearms became prevalent.
Ok, but doesn't Spengler write about Russian culture as being derived from/seen in the steppe culture of the Cossack (? - too long since I read about it) band though?

>They 'squat' because prisons lack chairs to sit on
Or do the prisons lack chairs because they're Slavs?
There's also the other things I pointed out as plane-without-limit-y, which you didn't really offer refutations to.

I didn't call you a name, I called that critique retarded.

Tbh you sound extremely assblasted that a Germ sitting in his demon infested forest managed to look at the data and see how steppy ur culture is.

Idk. Does it offend your fundamentally communist mind that not everything cultural is made by the collective (because the environment likely plays a heavy role)?

[Anonymous No.14955523]

>>14955445
>your fundamentally communist mind
communism was invented by german jews

[Anonymous No.14955534]

>>14955523
Ok, fundamentally communal person-oriented steppe mind where it feels like the environment has little influence because you're constantly moving so everything is about other people?

[Anonymous No.14955580]

>>14955534
i’m >>14955523 and not the other guy; that all sounds like dumb memes. none of the russians i’ve met were “fundamentally communal person-oriented” moreso than le faustian germans for instance

[Anonymous No.14957162]

>>14936693
Where does Africa fit into Spengler's ideas?

[Anonymous No.14957322]

Will the Caesar come into politics even? Or will he be a CEO or a celebrity?

[Anonymous No.14957420]

>>14957162
If you count Egypt he considered them to be a high culture, beyond that he didn't really think any part of Africa besides maybe Ethiopia was even close to forming their own high culture. Just being split between the Faustian(western) south and Magian(Arab and Semitic) north in terms of influence.

[Anonymous No.14957430]

>>14948274
>>14948467
>>14954762
Read a book.

[Anonymous No.14957877]

Elon Musk will be our Caesar if he manages to colonize Mars. That would be the most Faustian thing I can imagine.

[Anonymous No.14958405]

>>14957877
Elon Musk is just a step up from e-celeb
He will amount to nothing in the long run

>>14957322
This faggot will be more relevant than musk in 100 years

[Anonymous No.14958701]

>>14957877
Elon Musk is more of a figurehead. It's not like he's personally leading the novel things his company is doing. He's getting people together who already have the expertise using concepts that already exist.
He hasn't even been the #1 guy in some of his famed projects, like paypal. He's famous for payal, but I don't even think Musk was one of the true original members, or took paypal to its most important places.
He hasn't particularly revolutionized any industry like Ford or Rockefeller. I'd say Bezos did a bit more of that, but he wasn't the originator or innovator, really. eBay was arguably doing it first (at least parallel), and the internet at large was moving that direction. As far as vehicles go, Hybrids are becoming cheaper and more prevalent, with stuff like the Ford Fusion.
That's the problem with these billionaires. Their biggest thing is their brand. How often do you hear from the founder of eBay in the news, even though he was just as innovative as Bezos and Musk?
And frankly, Musk is making some bad moves. He's alienating his staff for his ego based on his savior complex. And that's how many of his professionals get into Tesla. He thinks that working 80-90 hours a week should be simply required of them. As time goes on, those people will naturally go to older companies giving them better deals and careers, as they go into the electric car business.
And then there's space. The main impetus for space is Musk's massive ego. What could pay off an adventure into space, for a private entity? I'm sure there's plenty in the far future, but it's not there yet. There's nothing tangible that could handle the bill. Private entities won't go into space generally until there's a serious incentive already in place. History shows, too, that these exploration projects are almost always first patronized by a State (Columbus, Vasco de Gama, etc.), before private interests accrue. The reasons are that any given company, especially a public one, doesn't have the resources to waste. The government could theoretically be more indulgent and take the risk.

[Anonymous No.14958706]

>>14952101
I think control must splinter in to many factors, with Mexican style ‘politics’ only one. Perhaps fighting some Chinese dominance on the west coast, or Mormon partisans in the mountains.

>>14954008
>>14957877
Seems possible, and the goal of the Faustian, but we will see if the devil’s in the details.

[Anonymous No.14958707]

>>14957877
The only way to prevent our total decline is if a Caesarian leader pushes expansion into space, the last leader who actually pushed for this being JFK.

[Anonymous No.14958737]

I'm seeing people reference Vico in this thread. Can someone explain to me why he is worth reading? I tried reading the beginning of the new science but so much of it seems anachronistic babble about the classics (inserting things like "primitives" and "progress" that are foreign to a traditional outlook). It is very hard for me to read this sort of old European intellectualism because there are so many clear intellectual biases and vain thoughts about the past that no modern thinker would ever reference.

[Anonymous No.14958840]

>>14958706
The devil is always in the details, but if something is important enough then people take the time to overcome the details or use them as inspiration to work even harder.
For example: Humans can't live in space.
Non-Fausian: oh well let's give up
Based Faustian who has read all 900 works of Goethe and believes unquestioningly in the ability for mankind to infinitely transcend and reach out to infinity: lmao change humans or build a better space ship

[Anonymous No.14958855]

>>14948571
>>14954008
This civilization simply doesn't have the energy or will anymore for space colonization. I don't think there's any necessity that Caesarism must precede a civilizations most prosperous time. Economically and socially (unpayable expenses, unified global trade, mass entertainments, low birth rates, outsourcing etc.) I'd say America looks a lot more like Rome before the Crisis of the Third Century than Rome before Caesar. I think there's a good chance that technology and immigration have accelerated our timeline

[Anonymous No.14958863]

>>14958855
>This civilization simply doesn't have the energy or will anymore for space colonization. I
reeeeeeeeeeeeee

[Anonymous No.14958871]

>>14958855
>I'd say America looks a lot more like Rome before the Crisis of the Third Century than Rome before Caesar
I mean, you're right, but this is like if I was a cat and you poured cold water on me

[Anonymous No.14958912]

>>14958840
Indeed transhumanism seems unfathomable to many ideologies, but in the west we can’t even keep men from trading in their dicks. Changing to live in space seems quite reasonable.

>>14958855
>>14958863
Yeah seems more like a temporary crisis, then “driving off the freeway forever to babysit diversity”.jpg

[Anonymous No.14960328]

>>14936693
Look up Parravicini predictions; Caesarism will start in Argentina and it would create a trend in all the civilized world

[Anonymous No.14961490]

>>14958855
Success begets success, so this next 20 years determines our will to extension in space (quite literally space). I think you’re wrong but that the colony of mars 2200 will be at war with the remnants of earth

[Anonymous No.14962133]

>>14936693
When Barron Trump becomes an adult

[Anonymous No.14962229]

>>14960328
Perón or someone new?

[Faustian 'Caesar' No.14962255]

>>14962133
We gotta redpill Barron.

[Anonymous No.14962430]

>>14947613
extrapolating that hitler is a christian through Nietzsches criticism of Wagner. The reason? Hitlers admiration of Wagner and his adherence to the wagnerian ideal. What is ignored? That Nietzsches criticism is pointed at Wagners late works, where he abdicates from his radical pagan sense of myth towards a christian arc of redemption and also starts with his petit-bourgeoise deutschtümlerei.

But: Hitler adopted this criticism of Nietzsche into his vision of Wagner, he kept it pure, atleast in ideals.

[Anonymous No.14962619]

Next Caesar is gonna pop out of chinkoid genetic engineering labs and take over china after a period of instability within the government. mark my words

[Anonymous No.14962640]

>>14936693
Dude just stop posting cringe.
"The west" is just a storytelling devise nothing more

[Anonymous No.14962659]

>>14939365
this actually aquinas quote

[Anonymous No.14962952]

>>14953315
What was the bargain?

[Anonymous No.14963005]

>>14947571
Bad ass. Really hoping it’s true about evangelical numbers

[Anonymous No.14963053]

>>14960328
>Parravicini predictions
Where? Books? i don't speak spic

[Anonymous No.14963230]

HELP! Does anyone have an epub of Decline of the West? I cannot find one anywhere, only outdated pdfs with bad translations. Thank you bros.

[Anonymous No.14963240]

>>14944659
No.

[Anonymous No.14963382]

>>14936963
I used to be excited about his second term. Not anymore...

[Anonymous No.14963522]

>>14939365
Europeans cosplaying as Caesar is the most embarrassing kind of cosplay. Not Hitler, nor Wilhelm, nor Charlemagne had any legitimate cause to invoke the title of the Roman Emperors. They're descendants of the same retard inbred Gauls that Caesar tried to exterminate in the first place. Your legacy isn't the glory of the Romans, your legacy is the animal-fornicating dirt farmers of the European Dark Age.

[Anonymous No.14963564]

>>14953262
instead i asked and some bigbrain anons started a good conversation. nice reaction image tho, mind if dl it?

[Anonymous No.14963800]

>>14963230
https://b-ok.cc/book/2928922/7c0531

[Anonymous No.14964410]

>>14963522
Civilisation isn't nordic. We are barbarians.

[Anonymous No.14964810]

>>14960328
Tell me more

[Anonymous No.14964910]

>>14962659
>god comes down from heaven, shows himself and says 'look here I'm real'
>i'm like 'nah sorry that evidence wont suffice...'

That's a retarded quote. Or what other 'evidence' does he talk about? Standing on a hilltop watching the birds fly and be like 'dang nigga god is real'

[Anonymous No.14965021]

>>14962640
t. Didn't read the book

[Anonymous No.14965194]

>>14962229
>>14963053
>>14964810

I made a thread elaborating on it, because it is a complicated subject

>>14965170

[Anonymous No.14966849]

when the antichrist arrives?

[Anonymous No.14966939]

>>14949231
>only that Russia will forever despise the West and all Western values.

lol

[Anonymous No.14966965]

>>14955126
>I take it there are no forests in the Mediterranean region nor in Eastern Europe, so neither Graeco-Roman people nor Slavic could think in 3d.

[Anonymous No.14966987]

>>14960328
>Caesarism will start in Argentina and it would create a trend in all the civilized world

what´s the deal with argies thinking they´re the center of the world

[Anonymous No.14967198]

>>14966987
We are simply the superior race

[Anonymous No.14967265]

>>14967198
sure paco, now go and mow my lawn

[Anonymous No.14967275]

>>14967198
>spic thinking he´s the master race

[Anonymous No.14967297]

>>14967198
then why trump wants to deport your people if you´re the master race?

[Anonymous No.14968181]

>>14966939
>Georgia
>Armenia
>Azer-by-fucking-jan
>Western
Well yes, the map has Jews in it, why not add some mountain monkeys too.

[Anonymous No.14968704]

god it's such a chore reading this book, I'm bad at mathematics/physics and do not really care for Kant or other fuckers, but he constantly name drops them and argues about definitions of time and space, and mathematics of the past and now
get tired after reading 20 pages of it

[Anonymous No.14969231]

>>14968181
the caucasian (european) race originated from there