/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14925911]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XK8x4tEaIfc
how will /lit/ ever recover

[Anonymous No.14925926]

>>14925911
is this another Book Club satire video?

[Anonymous No.14925980]

From the genius who brought you videos like this

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=vjPAAlUw6wg

[Anonymous No.14926008]

>>14925911
hurrrrrrrrrrrrr I didn't get it so it baaaaaaaaaaad

[Anonymous No.14926021]

>>14925911
>everything is fake
yikes

[Anonymous No.14926183]

>>14925911
holy based. fuck french bargain bin "philosophy" like baldrillard

[Anonymous No.14926200]

>>14925911
Bald retard? Sorry I won't read it

[Anonymous No.14926314]

>>14925911
Based, America and Cool Memories are ok tho.

[Anonymous No.14926880]

>>14925911
NOOOOOO IF I DONT UNDERSTAND ITS DUUUUUUMB!!!!!!!!!!!!! WHY FRANCE MAKE HARD THINGS!!!!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THIS ISN'T JORDAN PETERSOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Anonymous No.14926884]

>>14926880
Brainlet. Baudrillard is as midwit-core as it gets.

[Anonymous No.14926890]

>>14926884
t. too dumb to read Baudrillard

[Anonymous No.14927065]

>>14925911
This video is clearly satirical but on a serious note I've never been able to extract anything of value from Baudrillard's works. I've read The Spirit of Terrorism, Passwords, and gave up half way through Simulacra because I wasn't following his reasoning and it felt like a waste of time. I'm not exactly well versed in philosophy but I can follow thinkers like Plato or Aristotle fairly well. When I'm reading Baudrillard it feels more like a work of prose than a genuine pursuit of knowledge; he seems to intentionally obscure his writing with inaccessible terminology and when I do feel confident that I've grasped what he's trying to tell me, it's nothing that I haven't read in prior thinkers that were able to express themselves much more succinctly. Is it just me?

[Anonymous No.14927093]

>>14927065
Kind of but not really. A big part of Baudrillard's style is to replicate the vertiginous effects of what he's talking about via his prose. He's a polemicist. If you want to give Baudrillard another shot, the youtube channel Plastic Pills has some good Baudrillard content. The other thing is that most of his works build heavily off all the others. You hopped into his mid-period, but it was in his earlier works that his inaccessible terminology is laid out and explained.

[Anonymous No.14927101]

>>14927065
monoskop org/images/9/98/Horrocks_Chris_Jevtic_Zoran_Introducing_Baudrillard_1999.pdf

[Anonymous No.14927146]

>>14927093
Thanks, I'll look into his earlier works.

[Anonymous No.14927164]

>>14927146
No problem, it's what my PhD's in.

[Anonymous No.14927178]

>>14927093
do you have any channels that aren't hosted by libtarded bugmen cucks?

[Anonymous No.14927190]

>>14927178
Cuck Philosophy

[Anonymous No.14927491]

>>14927093
>A big part of Baudrillard's style is to replicate the vertiginous effects of what he's talking about via his prose.

[Anonymous No.14927995]

>>14927101
thanks I like it

[Anonymous No.14928065]

>>14927065
If one reads Derrida one realises that reading Baudrillard is for LARPing only

[Anonymous No.14928089]

>>14927065
Read some secondary literature, Baudrillard has a lot of interesting things to say. His books are a dread to read, however.

[Anonymous No.14928102]

>>14927093
Why is lefttube always so cringe and gay? I really want to understand their ideas but the community is replete with weaklings

[Anonymous No.14928377]

>>14927164
if that is true maybe you could create a reading (order) chart with explanations like we have for other 'meme' thinkers. we have had so many ppl asking where to start and where to go with baudy maybe it's time!

[Anonymous No.14928838]

>>14927995
No problem, that's a very good intro to not only his ideas, but his terminology as well. Impossible Exchange, Towards a Political Economy of theSign and Passwords are good to follow it with in terms of difficulty.

>>14928065
Derrida's Hauntology has some interesting overlap with Baudrillard

>>14928089
The only problem with that approach is that most secondary lit approaches his ideas from a Marxist perspective, but he broke from Marx early on. If you keep that in mind secondary lit can be a huge help, but if you don't you'll miss out on nuances.

>>14928377
Is there a way to easily make charts? I took a stab at it last night, but formatting the whole chart, and constant resizing of book covers made my cheap laptop freeze.

[Anonymous No.14928864]

>>14925911

Baudrillard is maybe the best example of a thinker who is simultaneously based and cringe.

[Anonymous No.14929242]

>>14925911
Baudrillard is not saying everything is fake. He is saying you can't differentiate whether something is real or fake, because there is no difference ultimately since everything is a sign. It is you who attaches meaning to a sign. A simulacra is a sign that signifies something it isn't. Baudrillard saw that everything was a simulacra, and so started obliterating meaning with his theory. He noted, then, how "the matrix" (the system) with its "code" (meanings), when it reached a certain technological ability, started deterring/neutralizing events (since you can't differentiate a real and a fake event, since you only see its signs). He bemoans this neutralization at the end of the book, but notes how there is still the sign, even if meaning is destroyed, and how the sign is eternal. This is where the "seduction" of the object comes into play.

[Anonymous No.14929333]

>>14929242
He then continues that the object is always greater than the subject, since the subject will always eventually disappear. He calls this by a few names: seduction, reversibility, objective irony, or the intelligence of evil. That which is initiated into appearance/signs will always eventually be initiated into disappearance. Seduction is the only eternal. It is the only rule. All production will be seduced, and only exists because of this seduction by the object. No production remains eternal. All truth will eventually elude itself. All power will eventually elude itself. Everything eludes itself, because of the impossibility of mastering seduction.
Because of this, Baudrillard created a number of "fatal" strategies, that is, strategies of the object that you can use to play against production and appearances.
This is where Baudrillard starts losing his steam. He takes seduction as a reason to stop producing, to give up building and become an "intellectual terrorist", turning thought into challenge, instead of realizing it is there to prevent stability and perminance in production. Because of this, he has little to say past a point, since his though becomes pure challenge/refutation.
Then, in his last few books he uses this production/seduction, good/evil divide to analyze giant catastrophes and conflicts, like 9/11.
And there is Baudrillard. Any questions?

[Anonymous No.14929372]

>>14929242
>>14929333
>Wasting trips for a shit-tier interpretation of bald retard

Jesus dude.

[Anonymous No.14929390]

>>14929242
>"code" (meanings")

lmao you retard the code is the rules by which signifiers are attached to signified, go read Saussure. I'm not even going to bother telling you why the rest of this is wrong, you don't even have an understanding of the semiology that Baudrillard heavily relies on. Go read a fucking book you normie.

[Anonymous No.14929444]

>>14929333
Thanks for writing this up, do you have more you would like to add on his various other topics?

[Anonymous No.14929496]

>>14928838
Not that anon but, if you give a list of what to read before what I could try and throw together a chart myself. Can promise it wouldnt be great, but it be something.

[Anonymous No.14929573]

>>14929390
Baudrillard does not use Saussure's semiology outside of symbolic exchange and death, where he only brings it up to refute it. Or have you not read symbolic exchange and death?

[Anonymous No.14929596]

>What's he saying? That he's fake? Who cares. He's French. He's dead. This book's shit. Don't buy it.
I chuckled to be honest.

[Anonymous No.14929611]

>>14929444
Honestly, that is just his strategy. It is how he applies it that is interesting. For instance, he applies it to sociology by showing how statistics are a form of wish fulfillment, and that the object of sociology, the mass, will always elude the sociologists. He shows how history will always elude the historians, and their artificial freezing of it will always just be a simulacra. He shows that the object will always elude the scientist, because the experiments are too a form of wish fulfillment. He destroys feminism with it, noting that women are trying to build up a counter masculinity instead of realizing their superior objective destiny, which has always been superior to masculine power. His books are a joy to read, really.

[Anonymous No.14929630]

>>14929611
>He shows that the object will always elude the scientist, because the experiments are too a form of wish fulfilment
And yet new technologies continue to be developed based on scientific experiment and innovation. BTFO, Baudrillard.

[Anonymous No.14929748]

>>14929573
Really? So in political economy of the sign he doesn't talk about, oh, i don't know, signs and signifiers? In Mobius strip of spiraling negativity he doesn't talk about how signifiers are free floating from the signified? You have no idea what you're talking about.

>>14929630
That anon has no idea what Baudrillard is talking about. The simple fact that he shows the mass as the object of sociology is a fundamental misreading of In The Shadow of Silent Majorities

[Anonymous No.14930119]

>>14928864
correct
>>14929496
ditto, please give us the info and we'll make the chart

[Anonymous No.14930231]

>>14930119
>>14929496

Quick 5 book intro to Baudrillard: For a Critique of the Political Economy of the Sign, In The Shadow of Silent Majorities, Impossible Exchange, Passwords, then finish with Simulacra and Simulations. This will give an intro to Baudrillard's ideas. His critique of sociology, the loss of the Symbolic, his critique of Marxism, his semiological ideas, mass media critique and how we've transitioned into hyperreality. Reading these books will not just give you an introduction to Baudrillard's ideas, but also each of his periods of writing. His style changes as he ages, so these represent (relative to Baudrillard) easy introductions to a given period of Baudrillard. To figure out what to read after these, take the book you were most interested in, then read one book before it, one book after it.

Supplemental Reading: Mapping Ideology, The Accursed Share vol 1-3, any Nietzsche (Baudrillard was a dedicated Nietzschean) Kapitol and Grundrisse, Society of The Spectacle and Comments on The Society of The Spectacle.

[Anonymous No.14930269]

>>14930231
Forgot to add: Each of these books were chosen for their ability to be read as a whole, or section by section. The first book, For a Critique of the Political Economy of the Sign is the longest, but is actually a collection of a series of essays. Baudrillard is hard to read. Oftentimes his later books (especially the order of these 5) will change how you view and interpret his earlier work.

[Anonymous No.14930604]

bump

[Anonymous No.14930941]

>tfw waiting for those charts

[Anonymous No.14931157]

>>14930231
>>14930941
Alright lets see what I can cook up

[Anonymous No.14931322]

Image quality test

[Anonymous No.14931436]

>>14930231
So the books you mentioned should be read in the order listed yes?

[Anonymous No.14931533]

>>14930231
>>14930941
Done, hopefully its not complete shit

[Anonymous No.14931544]

>>14931436
Yup! You can think of them as steps that lead up to Simulacra and Simulations, which is the most referenced book by Baudrillard.

>>14931533
It's great! Thanks man.

[Anonymous No.14932010]

>>14931544
>>14931533
checked