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/lit/ - Literature

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14893468 No.14893468 [Reply] [Original]

>Each one of us was harmed by being brought into existence. That harm is not negligible, because the quality of even the best lives is very bad—and considerably worse than most people recognize it to be. Although it is obviously too late to prevent our own existence, it is not too late to prevent the existence of future possible people.
refute him

>> No.14893471

Lmao thats literally just a copy of Cioran

>> No.14893474

>>14893468
my definition of quality isn't the same as his, nor is there any objective reason why I ought to conform to his terms. it just reduces to the whining of a loser

>> No.14893475

bad compared to what

>> No.14893480

>the quality of even the best lives is very bad—and considerably worse than most people recognize it to be.

Proofs

>> No.14893501

>>14893468
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gd9OhYroLN0

>> No.14893506

>>14893501
This is now an edgy teenage faggot music thread. Post edgy faggot teenage music:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIitQNXVgb8

>> No.14893517

>>14893501
>>14893506
This is the musical equivalent of listening to antinatalists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AV8N44HzfBQ

>> No.14893553

>>14893468
https://youtu.be/SQTObbKnB6k

>> No.14893565

>>14893468
you can't refute him, antinatalism is the end game of philosophy.

>> No.14893587

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFeZLJLgq-8&

>> No.14893592

>>14893468
>Overeducated incel goes on about how bad life is
You brought this on yourself, cunt.

>> No.14893602

>>14893468
>refute him
People who aren't miserable laughing in his face is probably enough.

>> No.14893607

>>14893468

>refute him

misery loves company

>> No.14893696

>>14893468
this is all subjective fluff. No real arguments

>> No.14893754

>>14893468
He's a jew

QED

>> No.14893853

>>14893553
based

>> No.14893933

>>14893475
this so fucking much.
>>14893468
>refute him
Noone is harmed by the act of birth. What is harm? Harm is only relative. Being harmed means transition from place A to a less desirbale place B. The problem with your qoute is that you cant compare non-existence with existence. the state of non-existence cant be good, better, bad or worse because its non existent. Birth is only state A from which from which a less desirable state B can follow. Mind you, i deliberately said "can". It doesnt follow that a state B MUST occur.
A different meaning of harm could be an unfullfilledness of desire(according to big boy Shopi). Here again, the same logic follows. in a state of non-existence there are no desires that can go unfullfilled. You see harm is again a relation between to states. The striving state A and fullfilment state B. You dont strive to be born or not to be born before you even exist. There never was a state A, a state of striving, therefore no desire was there to be squandered.
You cant be harmed by coming into existence. However existence is the necessary condition for harm. Its a logical leap however that each and every life must be harmful and therefore undesirble.

English is not my first language, bare with me

>> No.14893986

>>14893475
compared not being born

>>14893933
>What is harm?
harm is being born with a disease, getting raped, being born in poverty, being killed, getting a painful disease, getting bullied, aging, experiencing the death of your loved ones etc.

>> No.14894011

>>14893986
> compared not being born
this is a pea brained and selfish teenage way of thinking

>> No.14894017

>>14894011
>this is a pea brained and selfish teenage way of thinking
how so?

>> No.14894022

>>14893468
Is this what happens when you don't embrace the chaos.

>> No.14894024

>>14894017
why doesn’t everyone just kill themselves as soon as they start to think consciously or their first experience of difficulty?

>> No.14894031

>>14894017
because it is self centred to the point of pointless absurdity

>> No.14894045

>>14894024
programming

>>14894031
how it is self centered?

>> No.14894084

>>14894045
how is “I wish I wasn’t born” self centred? take a fucking guess anon

>> No.14894086

>>14893986
Nigga please, why dont you open a fucking book and read instead of posting this bullshit.
everything you just posted is simply expressed by state A better than state B. The assymetry between the two states is harm. its the relation of two states. You didnt even understand the initial question.
> being killed
this is not harm. If some sniper gave a you a perfect headshot right now, you would die and dont feel any pain. No harm would be done to you because you transition from a state A to nothing. you cant make a qualititive jugdment of nothing ala good or bad. Therefore no harm was done.
Lets keep discussing OP inital quote.

>> No.14894103
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14894103

>>14893468

>> No.14894151

>>14893468
>people's life is bad even if they don't know it is
Don't think so, buddy, it would be cheating to mention Hugh Hefner or any kind of world leader or celebrity, but there are more people who think life is good and would rather live than die, you say they don't know how bad it is, probably they just don't care. Antinatalists, don't need to call them pussies because they don't have an ego so it's reduntant, they aren't even lazy, if they truly gave up on life or stopped caring they would actually be happy, they are trapped in their heads the poor bastards. Fucking hell man, even if we do the math, how many days do we spend in physical pain all our lives? Think of how low a number that is. Now you're going to say how boring life is. Well, yeah, that's what the pleasures in life are for, be it a family, a girlfriend, porn, or alcohol and drugs or friends, or even satisfying your ego with success or power. Now go and stop posting on /lit, you have thinking of how shit life is to do.

>> No.14894153

>>14894084
Antinatalists argue that people should abstain from procreation. so it's not about myself, it's about other person(or persons).

>>14894086
>this is not harm. If some sniper gave a you a perfect headshot right now, you would die and dont feel any pain. No harm would be done to you because you transition from a state A to nothing. you cant make a qualititive jugdment of nothing ala good or bad. Therefore no harm was done.
killing someone by burying them alive, setting someone on fire, getting skinned while being conscious etc. there are tons of other horrible methods to kill, go search for them or just look at rekt gore threads on /gif/.

>life is an unprofitable episode disturbing the blessed calm of non-existence.
based schoppy

>> No.14894174

>>14894153
>life is an unprofitable episode disturbing the blessed calm of non-existence.
if you can’t find a thousand small profits from life every day then you clearly aren’t living right you’re just running a hamster ball in your head, again it comes back to this “me me me” attitude

>> No.14894187

>Boohoo life's too friggin HARD

cry me a river you absolute crybaby

>> No.14894188

>>14894174
profits such as?

>> No.14894193

>>14894188
a comfortable pair of socks

>> No.14894230

>>14894187
>>Boohoo life's too friggin HARD let's shit out a baby or two so maybe our lives will be fulfilled

cry me a river you absolute crybaby

>>14894193
nice. but it's all temporary, those socks will not comfort you in a tragedy.

>> No.14894257

>>14894230
nothing will comfort you in a tragedy and you shouldn’t search for it to, time goes on and the tragedy diminishes

>> No.14894275

>>14894257
time goes on and one tragedy diminishes. and other tragedy rise up.

>> No.14894288

>>14894275
maybe. depends how you choose to see it, regardless “tragedy” is overrated and humans have innate animalistic ways of dealing with loss and pain, the idea of tragedy is worse than the reality in terms of closure and moving on

>> No.14894330

>>14894153
Hooray! You just noticed that the process of dieing CAN be harmful. I simply illustrated a death that isnt in anyway harmful the obejct. What did i show you? That killing is not necessarily harmful. Just as can count numerous painful death i could do aswell for the opposite. Same goes for rape(women can enjoy it and do so occasionally), death of loves one. Its futile to argue about particulars without discussing the metaphysics first. You dont ubderstand anti natalism at all and at the same time boldly defending this philosophy. Get off /lit/ start reading a book.

>> No.14894419

>>14894103
>our govenments polices are bad, therefore we need a better government
ohh this fucking poor puppet's dreams of fulfillment and happiness. also in western societies depite being the "pinnacle of human civilization" why every other young person is depressed?

>we already have examples of good communities
such as?

>>14894288
true we suffer more mentally. it's not good to being another person in this world to suffer through tragedies or with the idea of tragedies.

>>14894330
>rape(women can enjoy it and do so occasionally),
if it's true then that would be very tiny minority. also kids and teenage boys also get raped.
> death of loves one
so you're telling me that most of humans don't suffer when they lose their loved ones?
also what about being born with a disease, getting paralyzed for life in an accident or losing a vital part of your body, getting a painful disease, getting affected by a climate catastrophe etc

>You dont ubderstand anti natalism at all and at the same time boldly defending this philosophy
okay what it is antinatalism?

>> No.14894449

>>14893468
Is this supposed to be a novel observation? Contemporary philosophy is so fucking bankrupt.

>> No.14894470

>>14894449
>Contemporary philosophy is so fucking bankrupt.
>Contemporary
lol philosophy pleb fag got filtered

>> No.14894518

>>14893480
read the book he actually provides pretty good evidence

>> No.14894528

>>14894449
I too hate Deleuze. I know he's not contemporary; I just wanted to say it.

>> No.14894531

>>14893592
isn't he happily married ?

>> No.14894539

>>14894531
>happily
evidently not

>> No.14894706

I am happy being born and so are many people I knoew

Antinatalists refuted

Now get off your computers and stop masturbating and maybe you won't be such depressed faggots

>> No.14894787

Antinatalism is the logical conclusion of philosophy, everything else is just coping.

>> No.14894841

>>14893468

There is no refutation and that's proved every time these threads are made

it's always "lol my life is great", "stop being edgy", "just grow up", and other similar completely anecdotal, ad-hominem, meaningless, worthless, pithy non arguments over and over again

>> No.14895062

>>14893468
lol my life is great, stop being edgy, just grow up.

>> No.14895075

>>14894841
you haven’t killed yourself therefore we are right.

>> No.14895082

Attachment to pleasure or suffering is completely arbitrary. But yes, I would argue there is no reason to exist: yet reason is not the only lens with which to view reality.

>> No.14895101

>>14893468

anti-natalism relies too heavily on bullshit empirical premises to be worth anything. neoplatonic theory on transmigration, buddhism, and advaita already provide the solution. it is literally a worthless philosophy

>> No.14895264

>>14894841
Because antinatalism itself is the exact same thing. Antinatalism bases itself completely on the statement "to live is to suffer, so better not to have lived at all" - how is the statement "too live is to have joy, so better to have been born" any less supported. And before you go and list off thing that make life miserable (rape, murder, whatever), know that that is no better than a person who will tell you good things to change your mind. The problem that makes both anti-natalism and its criticisms surface level is that it rests purely on experience and emotion, and thus can be refuted, and only deserves to be engaged with at the level of experience and emotion

And just grow is actually legitimate advice here. To make the claim that life is suffering, one should really try and experience as much of life as possible to actually verify if that is the case. Being a virginal 20s something with an internet addiction makes you miserable, more news at 11.

>> No.14896334

>>14895264
>And before you go and list off thing that make life miserable (rape, murder, whatever), know that that is no better than a person who will tell you good things to change your mind
one cannot guarantee that those "good" things will happen in your life. on the other hand suffering and death are inevitable.

>Being a virginal 20s something with an internet addiction makes you miserable
why being miserable is a bad thing? it's a pretty normal condition that occurs going through life.

>> No.14896351
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14896351

>>14893468
>refute him
It's not that bad, just don't be gay lmao.

>> No.14896372
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14896372

>>14893986
Harm (experiencing loss, living in poverty or with disease etc) is not all bad 2bh. I've suffered a lot in my life but never would I choose to have never been born. In fact, I think that if I had not suffered like I have my life would be less than it is.

>> No.14896428

>>14896372
antinatalists argue that people should abstain from procrastination. it's not really about yourself.

>> No.14896625

You can't be harmed if you don't exist.

>> No.14896687

Suffering is what gives life meaning.
Resistance, pushing, competition, improvement, victory, beauty is tragedy. Good only exists in relation to not having it.

>> No.14896692

>>14893468
This is the logical consequence of atheist materialism, there is literally no argument against it unless you assume some external metaphysical purpose to existence. You have to presuppose the existence of souls which become liberated and glorified through incarnation.

>> No.14896700

>suffering isn't bad
Antinatalism defeated in a single clause. Pathetic.

>> No.14896864

>>14896700
Prove that without appealing to God.

>> No.14897347

>>14896864
Bad and good are arbitrary value judgements, there is nothing to prove. It is illogical to live and to give birth, but by the same token, suffering is also illogical.

>> No.14897371

>>14893468
this thread sucks congrats OP

>> No.14898264

>>14897347
suffering is painful

>> No.14898320

Bad good not real