Is there an intellectual basis for Fascism?

[Anonymous No.14865697]

One thing that always confused me about Fascism compared to other political ideologies, is that it makes a lot more sense politically but is missing the great works of writing.
Many inferior and unrealistic political ideologies like "democracy" and anarchism etc have Kant, Democritus, John Locke, Ted Kaczynski, Bakunin, Tolstoy etc.

Even autocrats have Plato, Confucius, Spengler, Thomas Aquinas, Thomas Hobbes etc.


Yet Fascism has FUCKING Giovanni Gentile and Julius Evola...

Why are Fascist philosophers so pathetic?

[Anonymous No.14865705]

>>14865697
its true anon, with you!

[Anonymous No.14865706]

>>14865697
Fascism is autocracy/aristocracy watered down for plebeians.

[Anonymous No.14865727]

>>14865697
>Yet Fascism has FUCKING Giovanni Gentile and Julius Evola...

Don’t forget Nietzsche

[Anonymous No.14865752]

>>14865697
There were a lot of veritable Fascist intellectuals and fellow travellers in France (Georges Valois, Robert Brasillach, Pierre Drieu La Rochelle, Thierry Maulnier, Henri De Man). Fascism and proto-Fascism have a a long history there with the neosocialists, the planists, the national syndicalists, the Cercle Proudhon, the nonconformists of the 1930s interwar period and eventually the collaborators of Vichy.

National Socialism by contrast had significantly less presence in the world of letters and while it attracted intellectuals like Heidegger and Gottfried Benn they weren’t really contributors to anything like a philosophy of fascism like what you see in Western Europe. The closest thing is probably the thinkers of the Conservative Revolution but a lot of them resisted Nazism.

Plus of course many prominent intellectuals and artists from a variety of countries flirted with fascism—Wyndham Lewis, Ezra Pound, Knut Hamsun, D.H. Lawrence, Gabriele D’Annunzio, Louis-Ferdinand Celine, Emil Cioran, Miles Franklin, Gertrude Stein, Salvador Dalí, Leni Riefenstahl, Coco Chanel, the list goes on. Some of them later regretted their involvement, some of them didn’t.

For more info on the intellectual history of fascism check out books by Zeev Sternhell and A. James Gregor.

[Anonymous No.14865755]

>>14865697
Fascism was historically the third way, influenced by italian futurism and denouncing both the degeneracy of capitalism and communism as its alternative
Mussolini said something like "capitalism goes right, communism goes left, we go forward"
It's reactionary at its core and its ideology is composed mainly of denouncing the others

[Anonymous No.14865770]

>>14865752
I will add that in my personal opinion though many great artists and thinkers were seduced by fascism very little good art flourished in societies that were actually fascist. During and after Nazism German society seemed to lose all artistry..

[Anonymous No.14865772]

>>14865752
I think a lot of these sympathizers saw it as the last opportunity for Europe to overturn modernity. They might not have been entirely wrong about that being the case.

Still, most people bailed when they saw that it was hijacked by pseuds.

[Anonymous No.14865790]

Am >>14865772

>>14865770
I think that's because of the same reason why marxist countries became so intellectually and artistically sterile : art and philosophy became a tool rather than an end unto itself.

Honestly, I couldn't name a single marxist/communist artist that I'd consider above middling who didn't renounce his/her allegiance to the movement at some point.

[Anonymous No.14865845]

>>14865697
Rightwing Illiberalism, including fascism, has and had Kant, rousseau, Nietzsche, spengler, yockey, Hoppe, CS Lewis, guenon (pbuh), De Maistre, evola (who is not insignificant) schmitt, Heidegger, and Strauss, just in the modern era. That’s not even to speak of the Beowulf and Mahabharata poets, or Virgil

[Anonymous No.14866025]

>>14865697
No. It's a purely practical movement for conservation of the bourgeois society. It can't have an intellectual basis.

[Anonymous No.14866172]

>>14865697
Fascism is a political con game, it has no coherent ideology besides power for the sake of power, and will adopt any position or policy towards this pursuit. Fascism is literally "Gimmie control."

[Anonymous No.14866284]

>>14866025
the soviets did more to conserve bourgeois society than the germans...

[Anonymous No.14866308]

>>14866284
how?

[Anonymous No.14866335]

>>14865697
Fascism is romantic rather than rational.
>>14865706
This.

[Anonymous No.14866539]

>>14866308
They renamed it the workers party and give them more rights

[Anonymous No.14866568]

Amazing all the Lefties who can only conceive of Fash as Reactionary, and the Reactionaries who can only see Fash as Leftwing.

[hungryman !!5BI0oSV9uvS No.14866579]

>>14865845
>right wing illiberalism has... Rousseau

Is this that “the general will is fascist” meme? Rousseau is not anti liberal at all, reread the Legislator portions of The Social Contract.

[Anonymous No.14866645]

>>14866579
>Rousseau is liberal
Hes almost on the same levels as anprims, he certainly inspired a lot of liberals but he wasnt liberal himself

[Anonymous No.14866653]

when intellectuals are taken seriously it's usually a sign of decline.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14866671]

>>14865697
No.

>>14866568
>Authoritarian capitalism! Try it today!
Autocracy is just whatever the leader says it is. It’s been tried and it doesn’t work out so well. Let the past go, kid.

[Anonymous No.14866694]

>>14866671
>Let the past go, kid.
>Embrace the (((future)))
How bout no. We've got a glimpse of it and are collectively disgusted.

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14866707]

>>14866694
>The future is jewish! Fuck dat shid
End capitalism and your boogyman pretty much vanishes

Now get outta my board.
Please

[Anonymous No.14866722]

No, the only good thing about fascism was its dedication to anti-intellectualism.

[Anonymous No.14866783]

>>14865697
>but is missing the great works of writing

>implying

they are simply repressed, because our presiding society is the antithesis of nationalist socialist fascism

[hungryman !!5BI0oSV9uvS No.14866847]

>>14866645
He's not at all. I'm assuming you're referring to On the Origins of Inequality-- Rousseau is pretty clear in that book and the Social Contract that that particular state is no longer attainable or desirable. The Social Contract is absolutely not an anprim book, and On the Origins of Inequality only is if you don't read past the 4th paragraph.

[Anonymous No.14867065]

>>14866284
I agree!

[Anonymous No.14867175]

>>14866722
based Rousseauian

[Anonymous No.14867340]

>>14865697
leaving aside invading other countries like Ethiopia, did Fascist Italy do anything wrong? they didn't even deport Jews to be killed until Nazi Germany conquered the north and took control (the Italian Social Republic)
so much of my WWII education was focused on the Holocaust and Nazi Germany that I learned literally nothing in school about Mussolini. far as I can tell, the only reason he was considered "bad" was because he allied with Hitler and fought against our troops.

[Anonymous No.14867652]

>>14865697
>but is missing the great works of writing
get a load of this faggot
only nerds and chapo trannies care about this shit

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14867661]

>>14867340
>Other than a little invasion and completely folding and aiding in genocide, Italian fascism was pretty goo—

[Anonymous No.14867970]

>>14867661
yeah - focus on domestic policies only

[« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !!oI3er5KKetj No.14867983]

>>14867970
Like the Chiapas or Kurds. Yeah.

[Anonymous No.14867994]

>>14867983
?

[Anonymous No.14868030]

>>14865790
comunist artists are cool when they are not dominant, a good example is pablo neruda, once a country becomes marxist art loses its soul

[Anonymous No.14868432]

>>14867970
The domestic policies were so bad that the period of the dictatorship is also called “Gli anni della disperazione”which literally traslate into the years of despair

[Anonymous No.14868465]

>>14865697
Fascism relies completely on political action. If the Left left their ivory tower and met the angry masses half way they could establish some fundamental guidelines founded in theory but instead they prefer to be shot to death like the scum they are.

[Anonymous No.14868509]

>>14868432
ok, so what were those "bad" domestic policies specifically?

[Anonymous No.14868568]

>>14868509
https://cpb-us-e1.wpmucdn.com/share.nanjing-school.com/dist/d/75/files/2015/09/Mussolini-Economic-Policy-2d09q14.pdf

[Anonymous No.14868622]

>>14865697
You do know why you're never taught or hear about fascist thinkers, right?

[Anonymous No.14868655]

An over-intelectualized facist academia would be contradictory and defeat the purpose of facism. It is about the man of action who strives to change the world, not the about the scribe who grows old complaining about the deeds of others.

[Anonymous No.14868671]

>>14868432

Academia in my country calls the military government era "the years of lead", every common man who lived during that time loved it. If you let biased academia define your worldview then dont complain when people call you a moron.

[Anonymous No.14868701]

>>14865697
Fascism is inherently anti-intellectual, just like communism and other socialist ideologies.

[Anonymous No.14868731]

>>14868671
Academia in my country calls the military government era "the years of lead", every common man who lived during that time loved it. If you let biased academia define your worldview then dont complain when people call you a moron.
Sure go to China and ask what they thinks about their goverment,they most likely will say only positive things about it,people most of time base their opinion is based on propaganda that is why historian need to follow the scientific method instead of listening only to biased sources
Is ten

[Anonymous No.14868753]

>>14868671
Sure go to China and ask what they thinks about their goverment,they most likely will say only positive things about it,people most of time base their opinion is on propaganda that is why historians need to follow the scientific method instead of listening only to the common people

[Anonymous No.14868763]

>>14868671
Also there is always an open debate in the scientific community,why do you pretend it is controlled by leftists

[Anonymous No.14868779]

>>14865697
gentile is fine. carl schmitt, heidegger, spengler are others. alaid de benoist probably isn't a fascist but i hear he's good and is adjacent. not sure why you don't associate spengler with fascism, he endorsed mussolini. hitler is worth reading for insight into the fascist ethos but he sucks obv

[Anonymous No.14868799]

>>14868779
oh yeah and nietzsche wasn't a fascist but there's a reason the nazis used him. ditto for hegel

[Anonymous No.14868815]

Yes

[Anonymous No.14869055]

>>14867661
If invading Africa invalidates your political ideology than I guess that means democracy is permanently refuted

[Anonymous No.14869146]

>>14865770
where did this meme come from, also National Socialism was around for like less than 10 years without war, so yeah it makes sense that there wasn't absurd amount of artist innovation but you still had Breker and Speer. Although the general militaristic nature of the system didn't help I believe Himmler even mentioned so in a speech to the SS, personally I believe that militaristic aspects of the Third Reich would have been phased out with time, they were emergency measures to route out degeneracy

[Anonymous No.14869522]

>>14865697
>fascism is wholly distinct from autocracy
big dumb you

>Fasces (English: /ˈfæsiːz/ FASS-eez, Latin: [ˈfaskeːs]; a plurale tantum, from the Latin word fascis, meaning "bundle";[1] Italian: fascio littorio) is a bound bundle of wooden rods, sometimes including an axe with its blade emerging. The fasces had its origin in the Etruscan civilization and was passed on to ancient Rome, where it symbolized a magistrate's power and jurisdiction. The axe originally associated with the symbol, the Labrys (Greek: λάβρυς, lábrys) the double-bitted axe, originally from Crete, is one of the oldest symbols of Greek civilization. To the Romans, it was known as a bipennis.[2]

[Anonymous No.14870486]

>>14869522
>[...] Yet what this one-sided futurisation of Fascism accurately pinpoints is an essential but widely misunderstood element of its history: the central role played by first the Interventionist spirit and then the veteran spirit in its genesis. It is remarkable how often historians have assumed that Fascism derives its name from the Roman Fasces and not from the Interentionist Fasci, or leagues. (Though "il fascio" was a general word of association or league at the time, Mussolini used it specificially with the connotations of Interventionism, an attitude which, wether from the left or the right, despied what Giolittian Italy stood for and fougth for a "new Italy".)

[Anonymous No.14870499]

>>14865752
>Heidegger
I'm glad these philosophers aren't known well enough to be "cancelled" by Twitter feminists or uppity college students. Certainly Being and Time has nothing to do with Jews or any of that nonsense

[Anonymous No.14870511]

>>14870486
>It is remarkable how often historians have assumed that Fascism derives its name from the Roman Fasces and not from the Interentionist Fasci, or leagues.
wat
the two are related you retard

[Anonymous No.14870517]

>>14867661
d

[Anonymous No.14870518]

>>14870486
What blog is this from? Just curious, since it might almost be convincing as either interesting or academic if someone cleaned up all the typos.

[Anonymous No.14870535]

>>14865727
Nigga. Nietzsche didn't write that it was his retarded sister and brother in law

[Anonymous No.14870564]

>>14870518
>>14870511
its from Futurism: A Microhistory, Chapter One by Roger Griffin
I'm sorry for the typos, just woke up.

[Anonymous No.14870571]

capitalism LARPing as monarchism

[Anonymous No.14870578]

>>14868763
Maybe in a perfect utopia world. Pretty much everything in the modern world requires connections for a variety of reasons. Exposure, funding, etc. If you're doing stuff that can make those connections worried about your actions blowing back on them they'll cut ties with you. This is why autistic shrieking feminists can almost get a man who landed a drone on a comet kicked out of the scientific community over his shirt. I suspect this is why all those studies that start poking holes in political correctness get pulled. Doesn't even have anything to do with whether or not they're valid. It's just that it's easier to pull the plug and have a bunch of people with no backing be upset, than to leave it in and have a bunch of journalists make clickbait headlines over it. As shit gets pushed further left in academia more topics become less safe to talk about and less people want to back them.

The natural side-effect is it's legitimizing the claims that fringed groups make that "X-Group controls Y-thing"

[Anonymous No.14870580]

>>14870535
It's true Nietzsche's own political views wouldn't resemble fascism (though there's plenty for fascists to be influenced by in his works, and as a political philosophy is much closer to N.'s own positions than liberalism, communism, anarchism, etc., aka anything else popular in the modern era), but this whole idea of discrediting and outright dismissing the importance and legitimacy of "The Will to Power" is absurd. Yes, it was put together by his sister, but unlike what most people who supposedly understand Nietzsche suggest, or in your case straight-up assert as fact, she did not write a word of it. Every aphorism and thought in the book is genuinely Nietzsche's own.

[Anonymous No.14870585]

>>14866707
but communism is the most jooish system of them all. all who believe in communism have been brainwashed by the jews.

[Anonymous No.14870586]

>>14866025
lmao commies will literally never understand fascism

[Anonymous No.14870614]

>>14865755
Is Mussolini Yang?

[Anon No.14870635]

>>14865790
I would probably agree, revolutionaries make great artists, administrators do not. The early Soviet Union was a hotbed of new artistic movements which were all snuffed out by the time Stalin consolidated control and made socialist realism the state artistic movement. If you want to learn more about the topic I recommend "Red Star over Russia."

I love proto-facist art. Namely Marinetti's Italian futurism. Again it's best period is from before the fascists took power.

[Anonymous No.14870785]

>>14866568
>Economic Growth
>Immunity to recessions
lmao considering Italy was in a depression from 1929 to 36 and only grew half as much in the fascist pre-war period as in the non-fascist era

[Anonymous No.14870896]

>>14866707
>End capitalism and your boogyman pretty much vanishes
Y-yes

[Anonymous No.14871019]

>>14866025
Icepick yourself Trotsky

[Anonymous No.14871028]

>>14869055
This

[Anonymous No.14871120]

>>14866172
Whats incoherent about that?

[Anonymous No.14871128]

>>14865697
No Fascism can not be ethically justified under any moral system.

[Anonymous No.14872026]

>>14865706
fascism was always meritocratic

[Anonymous No.14872122]

>>14866694
>>14866707
the logical path to follow is to try to use technology to grow out of capitalism. we could power the whole world with the sun and give all essential needs to everyone.

[Anonymous No.14872137]

Its pragmatism gone haywire

[Anonymous No.14872143]

>>14872122
based and not blinded.
the world should be focusing on this COLLECTIVE goal which would do us good as a species, because we're always so busy with our politics that working together would perhaps be an eye opener for how much power we have when we are all working for something that is in everyone's interest.

[Anonymous No.14872160]

>>14872143
but isn't a little bit of famine and a little bit of underdeveloped country here and there good logistically? I'm pretty sure having every corner of the world flourishing with people wouldn't be very sustainable.

[Anonymous No.14872170]

>>14872160
but this is where law comes into play. monitoring births isn't wrong, as long as done justly.

[Anonymous No.14872181]

>>14872143
I agree. However this cooperation requires kinship (nationalism) and the policies that support this collective kinship (socialism).
Our current form of neoliberal individualism just leads further atomization and Darwinistic "fuck you I've got mine" worldview that have no telos; thus we'll always be stuck in a arbitrary and pointless game of material acquisition and wage slavery.

Let the economy serve our goals, rather than us serve the economy.

[Anonymous No.14872220]

>>14872181
Oh yes, if everyone was in their "ethnostate", that would be a lot more efficient in all ways. And the feeling of love for your kind is invaluable.
Unfortunately, we are at the hands at whoever did the pro-gamer move of establishing worldwide control of banks since circa 1760. As one of them said:

>Permit me to issue and control the money of a nation, and I care not who makes its laws

[Anonymous No.14872238]

>>14868815
I've only read two authors from that list, and neither of them were Nazis.

[Anonymous No.14872241]

>>14865770
>During and after Nazism German society seemed to lose all artistry..
HAHAHA, as compared to what?
Consider the absolute pageantry power of Nazi ceremonies compared to capitalist American "art" which consists of a whore smearing her period blood on a canvas and jews displaying urinals in galleries.

[Anonymous No.14872315]

>>14865752
Only informative post in this thread. To add: Italian fascism is the culmination of a long theoretical discussion over Marxism's empirical defects, going back to Sorel and his praise of irrationality, myth and violence to achieve revolutionary ends and establish a producerist societal ethos. Those revolutionary syndicalists who saw in nationalism a means of regenerating their decrepit nations married the two and formed the initial cadres that produced fascism. There is a real intellectual substance to fascist thought, but the fact that it was only in power for twenty years and that its intellectual progenitors did not often refer to themselves as fascists occludes that fact.

[Anonymous No.14872439]

>>14865770
*blocks your path*

[Anonymous No.14872913]

>>14865697
Because it is a philosophy designed for, and based in the real world, not in some autistic NEETs mind. Also, the reason it is the only one that works.

[Anonymous No.14873737]

>>14871128
why not?

[Anonymous No.14874191]

>>14865705
Based coomer

[Anonymous No.14874644]

>>14872913
Name one advantage of fascism

[Anonymous No.14874724]

>>14865770
adolf drew pretty buildings

[Anonymous No.14874737]

>>14872143
>the world should be focusing on
beyond cringe and retarded idea. you have no understanding of people, nor do you even seem to acknowledge that different peoples have different ideal goals. there is no "everyone's interest," ultimately. my people's weal is different than some bug chinaman's, 'and that's a good thing.'

[Anonymous No.14874936]

>>14865697
For fascism? No, not really. At some points it's like Marxist, at others liberal, sometimes even anarchist somehow, it bounces around according to needs and who it's trying to please.
For Nazism? Yes but fragmentary and at different levels and times. Philosophical, aesthetic, pragmatic (state), national, economic.

[Anonymous No.14874967]

>>14866568
>immunity to recessions
nigga

[Anonymous No.14875417]

Wow, you guys are all over the place with this one. Allow me to help.
Many of your assumptions, underlying values, and stereotypes are simply wrong. Empty your cup, and let me give you Fascism.
The question is asked: Is there an intellectual basis for Fascism?
Can any system NOT have an intellectual basis? Your mental image picture of stern men in uniforms bossing and brutalizing weaker people is a pop culture stereotype.
Fascism not only has an intellectual basis, but of all systems, is the very embodiment of Intellectualism. Not left-wing, subjective, wishy-washy intellectualism, but true Intellectualism, Practical Intellectualism.

A simple, two word description of Fascism would be: Applied Pragmatism.
Objective Reality is our starting point, and we must then assess the human beings within it. There are things that work and things that don't, things that must be a certain way for the good of all-- the trains must run on time. This was a big issue in Italy. You can't have weak, unreliable, inefficient people screwing up the train schedules, or anything else, then hiding being muh personal freedom, individuality, personal preference, or any such nonsense. The trains must run on time.
Fascism is governing in a fatherly manner. It is a system which recognizes that not all people are equal, and not all should have a say or an impact on whether the trains run on time. The trains must run, and they must be on time.

Society is full of lesser men who could not or would not accomplish this left to their own whims and impulses. Only a small number are serious and qualified, and they should use whatever degree of force is necessary to see that things are done, and done right, according to the damn schedule.
Fascism is benevolent and loving control, fatherly order, and adult-level seriousness that is for the good of all. Fascism is maturity, adulthood, adults trying to help the immature majority grow up, do the right thing, and keep the fucking trains running on time.
Fascism is The Family writ large. Children of different ages and levels of competence and maturity must be guided by their Parents, their Elders-- those who are more mature, strong, experienced and wise.
Applied Pragmatism. A society that works in a practical way, and is run in a practical way. A society where you never need to worry about the trains anymore, because they always run, and they are always on time.

[Anonymous No.14875520]

>>14870499
Or so it would seem...

[Anonymous No.14875537]

>>14866335

b-b-ut I thought we were about facts over feelings

[Anonymous No.14875550]

>>14865770
>who is Albert Speer
>what is neo-classicism
Hitler had a keen interest in art and architecture, have you not seen pictures of the buildings that were constructed during the period?

[Anonymous No.14875563]

>>14865727
It's almost as if you haven't read him