/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14854026]

Best books on the energies essence distinction?

[Anonymous No.14854031]

Gregory Palamas - The Triads

[Anonymous No.14854252]

Does anyone actually understand what this even means?

[Anonymous No.14854254]

>>14854252
its a eastern orthodox christian theological concept

[Anonymous No.14854256]

>>14854254

Obviously, but what does it actually entail? Why is it true as opposed to the RCC view?

[Anonymous No.14854273]

This is supposed to be a good explanation of the Orthodox system and its reasoning. But I haven't read it because it's like $30.

[Anonymous No.14854284]

>>14854256
no ones been able to figure it out for millenia

[Anonymous No.14854334]

>>14854252
As I "understand" it, and do forgive any mistakes, God's operations are distinct from his actions without causing a divide in the divine essence. Just like how real distinctions of the persons in the Holy Trinity do not cause a "split" of God into three parts. It's distinction without division (something any even remotely sensible Christian already accepts as possible).

Knowing this, we can share in God's uncreated Love while in this life without falling into degeneracy by claiming a participation/union with the Divine Essence, which would be blasphemy and idolatry.
>>14854284
This. One simply knows it noetically instead of ""figuring it out"".
>>14854256
Because it is revealed to us by God, whereas the RCC notion is constructed from the ground up using faulty pagan reasoning with "Trinity" tacked on at the end.

[Anonymous No.14854348]

>>14854026
This guy made a fool of himself in front of that perennialist

[Anonymous No.14854357]

>>14854348
link?

[Anonymous No.14854368]

>>14854357
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fJJw7jAKR8w

[Anonymous No.14854379]

>>14854256
Nobody really knows. Its just an excuse the Orthodox use to call Catholics heretics. The whole idea is nonsense. Apparently the essence of God is not the energies of God. Both the essence of God and the energies of God are fully God but it somehow doesn't divide the godhead. Its silly.

[Anonymous No.14854401]

>>14854379
OMG so much this, bro! My pastor said the same thing today! It ssuch nonsense that both Christ and the Holy Spirit can be fully God and yet not divide the godhead!

[Anonymous No.14854412]

I don't know what book would be best but I do wonder if it tries to limit me from understanding God and myself. when I asked God why we cannot be part of his Essence, because I just wanted to be more with God, he told me because you must have your own.

[Anonymous No.14854424]

>>14854252
It provides a retroactive refutation of every single religion that isn't Eastern Orthodoxy. Pretty powerful stuff once you start understanding it, with God's (uncreated) Grace.

[Anonymous No.14854455]

>>14854401
So the energies of God are another person? In which case you deny the trinity in favor of a Quadrinity. The essence energies distinction simply doesn't make any sense. If you accept it then you can carve God up into as many distinct pieces as you choose because "lol its just like the trinity bro". Its absurd.

[Anonymous No.14854484]

Agamben's Kingdom and the Glory, kinda.

[Anonymous No.14854510]

>>14854455
>So the energies of God are another person?
No, but the principle concerning non-division is analogous. Is the unique essence (ousia) of God a person (hypostasis) in the Godhead according to you? If not, why would the energies need to be a person? There are only three Divine Persons as revealed in Scripture.
>carve God up into as many distinct pieces
He has as many distinct "pieces" as he has distinct energies, without compromising his unity. You seem to be influenced by pagan anti-trinitiarian philosophy which assumes that distinction implies composition (contrary to revelation). You literally cannot go against essence energies distinction without taking along this uninspired pagan baggage as divine truth.
>The essence energies distinction simply doesn't make any sense.
This is the same thing pagan-inspired Muslims say about the Holy Trinity being polytheistic. It doesn't make "logical" sense with their wrong pressupositions, so surely it must be false.

[Anonymous No.14854533]

>>14854252
Only a handful of monks do. Such knowledge is not for our profane world

[Anonymous No.14854538]

>>14854510
Making a distinction means creating a divide. All the peraons of the Trinity are fully God but the Father is not the son. The Son is not the Holy Spirit and so on. For the energies of God to be distinct from the essence of God necessarily means that you've created a divide in Gods nature. If the energies are God and the essence is God and the energies are not the essence then you've split God into two parts. For there to be a real distinction requires this. The only way to get around it is to say that the distinction is only from mans finitude. But the Orthodox won't do this because they want to call Catholics heretics and in doing so make heretics of themselves by introducing dialectics into the godhead.

[Anonymous No.14854574]

>>14854424
Nice try but it's also in Islam, which has a third distinction, properties/attributes

[Anonymous No.14854596]

>>14854538
>Making a distinction means creating a divide.
>For there to be a real distinction requires this
Says who? Aristotle? We don't subscribe to the confused notion that distinction implies a divide. On the contrary, we are shown by revelation how the pagans are mistaken in their philosophy since it does not allow for a proper theology of the Holy Trinity.
If I make a real distinction between the Father and the Son, who are also necessarily distinct from the Divine Essence, should one consider there to be at least two Gods one should worship? Your argument can be used almost word-for-word to attack the Trinity itself.
>introducing dialectics into the godhead
Only if you introduce dialectics into your understanding of distinction.

[Anonymous No.14854601]

>>14854574
>Islam
That's just a nestorianized heresy of Eastern orthodoxy though.

[Anonymous No.14854607]

>>14854538
>Making a distinction means creating a divide.
>If the Son is God and the Father is God and the Son is the not the Father then you've split God into two parts.

[Anonymous No.14854680]

>>14854026

[Anonymous No.14854685]

>>14854538
>Making a distinction means creating a divide
Absolutely false. This Hellenistic thinking was adopted by Rome, and it's wrong.

[Anonymous No.14854798]

>>14854026
John Bekkos.
>>14854256
It's not true. Read John Milbank's essay "Christianity and Platonism in East and West" for a sophisticated critique of the essence-energies distinction.

[Anonymous No.14854865]

>>14854607
>>14854685
except orthodox have no idea what distinction they have in mind. they refuse to, they say its a 'real distinction' out of spite to catholicism, but what they;re describing is more akin to a 'formal distinction' of scotus.

[Anonymous No.14855012]

>>14854798
>John Milbank
>>14854865
>they say its a 'real distinction' out of spite to catholicism, but what they;re describing is more akin to a 'formal distinction' of scotus.
sure, an anglo bugman on 4channel knows better.

[Anonymous No.14855024]

>>14854865
except trinitarians have no idea what distinction they have in mind. they refuse to, they say its a 'real distinction' out of spite to modalists, but what they;re describing is more akin to a 'modal distinction' of sabellius.

[Anonymous No.14855026]

>>14855012

anglos are protestant tho

[Anonymous No.14855029]

Can someone tell me if the essence-energy distinction in Orthodoxy is similar to the distinction of neoplatonists such as Proclus?

[Anonymous No.14855192]

No I'm not a polytheist so I can't help you.

[Anonymous No.14855214]

>>14854601
What exactly is Nestorian about Islamic theology?

[Anonymous No.14855303]

>>14854798
>John Milbank
normie heretic

>>14855214
they both reject mary as the mother God because they reject the divinity of Jesus Christ as such , making him a separate person to "the Son" (God). So Jesus Christ takes on the role of a prophet moreso almost like an adopted son, not co-equal with God himself. Point is both Islam and Nestorianism misunderstand the profundity of the Incarnation of GOD.

[Anonymous No.14855856]

People here condemn those who reject Jesus as God and yet don't realize the idea is so good that we should All be in such relation to God. Truth without love is the winter. It comes from heaven but it's so cold. Some plants do well in the winter but when summer comes they perish. Other plants exist in all seasons.

[Anonymous No.14855922]

>>14854533
Bullshit. RCs will try to convince you this stuff is arcane and obscure theological hairsplitting yet the first Orthodox parish I went to (normal, canonical, urban OCA parish) the priest talked about uncreated grace in his second homily.

[Anonymous No.14856693]

>>14854865
Pretty much. Its just the Orthodox trolling Catholics. In practice their position is indistinguishable from Aquinas

[Anonymous No.14857013]

>>14855303
What's heretical about Milbank other than you not liking that he's an Anglican? And he's definitely not a normie.

The fact is all the smart Orthodox were in favor of reuniting with Rome and they read and appreciated Aquinas and understood that the filioque was not a problem 100% orthodox.