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/lit/ - Literature

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14806900 No.14806900 [Reply] [Original]

I am not talking about just his claims about Christianity/religion, but also his worldview with things like the Eternal Return and the Will to Power. They are concepts that seem to be within almost all social analysis and his claims regarding forces/the will (at least how they were concieved of by Deleuze) have been very influential within continental metaphysics. I won't mention the analytics since they frankly haven't engaged with him very much in the first place.

It seems that no major philosophers since him have believed in traditional identity metaphysics like you would see in Plato. Heidegger, Deleuze, Foucalt, etc. all did away with concepts like identity. Am I passing over something, or did Nietzsche really end metaphysics as it was traditional concieved?

Has any traditional metaphysician responded to Nietzsche's claims?

>> No.14806918

>>14806900
Has he actually put forth any argument? He literally just lets the philosophers lectures from their compendiums then says "well, that's just your perspective bro". And then he goes
>LIFE DENYING BAD! SLAVE MORALITY BAD! PLATO BAD! KANT BAD! SCHOPENHAUER? I LOVE HIM BUT BAD!

>> No.14806950

>>14806918
Regardless of your belief, that wasn't really my question. I was wondering if there have actually been serious academic responses to him in attempted refutation . Given his academic influence, I would think such things exist, but I have yet to see anything of serious intellectual value.

>> No.14807021

>>14806950
What I meant is that has he actually offered any grounded arguments in the first place so that philosophers could attempt to refute? All he does is to introduce ideas in aphorisms without giving any arguments. What is there to refute? You can't refute an ungrounded idea.

>> No.14807033

>>14807021
This. Op is retarded, Nietzsche doesn't explicitly claim anything. I also take it that you don't like him, slave.

>> No.14807055

>>14807033
>>14807021
Nietzsche obviously claims things. His entire philosophy is a claim that we have been interpreting values in the wrong way. I don't know how you could think he was just a poet without any substantial ideas. The Will to Power is a claim about the way desire and identity is manifested. The eternal return is a cosmological principle that Nietzsche says is the key to his philosophy. These are explicit claims that can be analyzes and critiqued. The ideas of life-affirming/denying presuppose certain claims about the nature of the world and life itself. These can be interacted with.

>> No.14807060

>>14807033
I actually love him very much, but in the proper context. Put him among his immediate predecessors and successors, and you have the greatest of all philosophy. As an individual though, he can be very misleading.

>> No.14807080

>>14806918
>Has he actually put forth any argument?
Literally the first page of his first published work postulates a dialectic between the Apollinean and the Dyonisian, such dialectic would explain how Attic tragedy originated

>> No.14807086

>>14807080
Literally in the preface of that exact book that he wrote years later he says he didn't put in logical arguments in the book because he saw it beneath him.

>> No.14807099

>>14807086
It is still a claim. What sort of mental gymnastics do you have to be engaged in to think that putting forward a new set of interpretative methods doesn't claim anything. What the hell do you think he wrote for all his life without claiming anything lmao.

>> No.14807131

He was a necklord with little else to offer but soulcrushing nihilism.

>> No.14807149

>>14807099
He has many claims alright. I didn't say he doesn't. It's just that they are ungrounded claims.

>> No.14807158

>>14807131

Didn't read. Fuck yourself.

Mass graves mass graves mass graves.

>> No.14807163

>>14807033

>Slave bad master good

You're the retard

>> No.14807175

Back to the point of this thread, I am confused as to how no one is aware of any books critiquing him if he is so controversial as one can see so obviously in the replies. It seems like everything is just emotional responses or completely ignoring him, like the analytics do.

>> No.14807190

>>14807033
>he doesn't say it in literal autist speak so I can't tell what he is saying!!!!!!!!!!

>> No.14807215
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14807215

>>14806900
Nietzsche belonged by extraction to the lowest of the people: Nietzsche was an exile. We know, we can even still see, how cucked he was. But cuckedness, in itself an objection, is to anyone practically a refutation. Was Nietzsche actually really a human? Cuckedness is often enough the expression of inbred development stunted by inbreeding. If not, then it appears as a development in Stockholm Syndrome. The epidemiologists amonggynecologists tell us that the typical John is ugly: monstrum in fronte, monstrum in animo. But the John is a romantic. Was Nietzsche a typical John?—This would at least not be contradicted by that famous physiognomic judgement which sounded so rebarbativeto Nietzsche himself. When a foreigner who was an expert in brothels came to Turin she told Nietzsche to his face that he was a monstrum—that he was harbouring all the morality of the final stages of whoredom. To which Nietzsche went off like a lantern in the bright morning, "NOOOO!!! YOU CAN'T SAY THAT!!!!!! I NEVER FELL OFF THE HORSE!!!!!! SHE WAS MINE!!!!!!"

>> No.14807220

>>14807215
see here >>14807175

>> No.14807228

>>14807220
How is it emotional or ignoring him?

>> No.14807263

>>14807228
You are using a fedora tipping reaction image with all caps in way that is similar to a wojak meme. You appeal to /pol/ "cuckold" tropes. You tell me.

>> No.14807284

>>14807263
It's based on a Nietzsche quote sweaty.

>> No.14807294

>>14807284
At least you bumped the thread.

>> No.14807302

>>14806900
his own brain refuted him by going insane. lmfao why would you take him and his loony ideas seriously. Read a real philosopher like Diderot.

>> No.14807390

>>14807302
>read a real philosopher like this other nigger no one cares about except 22 autists (including me)

>> No.14807689

>>14807055
He literally says all these ideas are inherent. His main point is the great men of the past acted on half-whims. He praised Goethe and Napoleon not some retarded self-help guru.

>>14807060
As an individual? That's only meant to slander him, we'll never know him and his works were written irrespective of him as a person.

>>14807163
>There are master morality and slave morality—I add immediately that in all the higher and more mixed cultures there also appear attempts at mediation between these two moralities, and yet more often the interpenetration and mutual misunderstanding of both, and at times they occur directly alongside each other—even in the same human being, within a single soul. The moral discrimination of values has originated either among a ruling group whose consciousness of its difference from the ruled group was accompanied by delight—or among the ruled, the slaves and dependents of every degree.

>>14807190
Beyond retarded.

>> No.14808581

Plagiarized stirner. Fuck this gimp.

>> No.14808587

>>14806900
Yea. The Allies refuted him. Fuck him, his sister and Shitler.

>> No.14808653

Metaphysics' unpopularity today has nothing to do with Nietzsche. No one points to his writings to discredit metaphysics. This has more to do with Kantianism and analytical philosophy.

The Will to Power is not a metaphysical concept, infact, Nietzsche increasingly ignored this concepet aswell as the concept of the "Übermensch" in his last writings.

I strongly suspect you are not an avid reader of philosophy and a poor reader of Nietzsche.

>> No.14808678

>>14806900
Yes. Nietzsche’s entire philosophical arguments are based on his philological views. However, the German philologist Ulrich von Wilamowitz-Moellendorff proved Nietzsche’s philology to be wrong.

>> No.14808679

>>14806918
>Has he actually put forth any argument?
Life itself is will to power and his argument for this is his entire bibliography.

>> No.14808702

>>14806900
You cant refute basic psychological truth, so no. People have tried but every argument against him comes across as cringey.

>> No.14808736

>>14808702
This. Refuting him is actually a process of refuting psychology itself, since he played a large part in developing the field (both Freud and Jung learned a lot from him).

>> No.14808772

I love how badly people threatened by Nietzsche want him to just be a poet or good writer. If you really read him there is serious argumentation and refutation but you can see where he delves into the more poetic realms is where he is arguing where the culture and language hadn't even begun to be capable of conveying his ideas. This is why he doesn't admit himself ever as his own ubermensch ideal and leaves it up to a prophetic future person to create a new valuation, literally because humanity had not progressed to the point where it could even bear such concepts. And it is endlessly entertaining to see him play around in that realm of values which had not yet come into existence, even more so than it is to see people trying to cope with it.

>> No.14808988

Refuted? Not that I know of. I unironically think Evola gives a very good critique though.

>> No.14809036

>>14808653
> has to do with analytical philosophy
ok Oliver, tell when you want to respond seriously

>> No.14809102

>>14807689
>beyond retarded
I know you are

>> No.14809117

>>14806900
According to him there is no need for refuting anyone. See his rant on Socrates in Twilight of the Idols where he shits on dialectic

>> No.14809132

>>14808702
>>14808736
No one has made any argument as to why Nitche is bullshit as powerful as you two

>> No.14809695

>>14809132
Man, that must mean Nietzsche really is that rock solid.

>> No.14809713

>>14809036
Kys buddy, most philosophers adhere to one form of analytical tradition. Doesn't mean that they are all staunch anti-metaphysicians, but most probably are. It's obvious you're not seriously engaged in philosophy.

>> No.14809809

>>14809713
Thanks for allowing me to skim over your opinion so easily. I love when people try and predicate themselves with studying "real philosophy" as if sitting in some dusty irrelevant anglo university is a qualification for such a thing.

>> No.14809813

>>14807175
Bertrand Russel criticized him but he basically just called Nietzsche an incel and moved on. I don't really see many criticisms of Nietzsche so much as different schools seem to emphasize and ignore different parts of his work.

>> No.14809840

>>14809813
In which book did he write such criticisms?

>> No.14809859

>>14809840
His history of Western Philosophy.

>> No.14809886

>>14809809
I don't know why you're engaging in some impotent analytics vs continental discourse setting. I was merely pointing out that Nietzsche was mostly ignored in philosophy until Kaufmann introduced him to American circles, Deleuze to the French and Adorno/Horkheimer to the Germans (after he had been tabooized in post-Nazi Germany for his fascist tendencies).

By this time Metaphysics had already fallen from grace, infact Metaphysics most notably started fading after Kant's first Critique.

Anyone who claims Nietzsche "btfod!" Metaphysics has no fucking understanding of Nietzsche and/or of the history of philosophy. You are a retarded pseud, most evident by your dismissal of academic philosophy. Not an anglo btw, I'm Germanic.

>> No.14809892

>>14809886
Thanks for the bump. Once again, don't care.

>> No.14809897

>>14809892
I'm sure you don't. I'm just here to farm (You)s. The point still stands, you're an embarrassing pseud. It's sickening how your kind always latches onto Nietzscheanism, as if Nietzsche is a bypass to the end point of philosophical insight. You're just a lazy faggot who will never be in the position to honestly call himself well-versed in philosophy.

I suggest starting with Kant, and then abruptly killing yourself.

>> No.14809900

>>14809897
Stay mad. Still don't care. Keep typing.

>> No.14809909

>>14809900
>I don't care that I'm a pseud and I'm vividly aware of this
I don't believe you, right about now you're feeling like a total pseud faggot and I know it.

>> No.14809935

>>14809909
My man, you are telling a stranger on his own 4chan thread to kill himself over a differing opinion on Nietzsche. Tell me who the angry one is. You are still replying to my thread. I don't care about a rando's opinion on 4chan. Something must be wrong in your life for you to be so mad.

>> No.14809944

>>14809935
No I'm angry because pseud faggots like you exist. I want your kind to die off. People who pretend to be more well-read than they are. The cheap thrill of engaging in "philosophical discourse" by pretending to know your stuff attracts the faggiest faggots on this planet and I want them all dead.

>> No.14809955

>>14809944
Therapists should be relatively inexpensive in Germany if you indeed live there and not Britain as you claim. Might be a good idea to go to one. Something is clearly wrong with your emotional state.

>> No.14809958

>>14809955
Just kys please

>> No.14809977

>>14809958
Nope. Sorry. Hope your life gets better though