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14757427 No.14757427 [Reply] [Original]

A student asked Immanuel Kant, famous Kantian thinker:
"Hey Kant if a tree falls in a forest and no one is around to hear it, does it make a sound?"
What did Kant answer?

>> No.14757452
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14757452

>>14757427
Imagine "thinking" when you're just a material pile of chemical reactions.
Stupid Kant!

>> No.14757457

It may disturb what we call the air, but as nobody is around for the disturbed air to enter their ears it does not make a sound

>> No.14757459
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14757459

>B-Berkeley!? you're alive?!?!? what are you doing in my classroom?

>> No.14757479

He said something witty that didn't actually answer the question.

>> No.14757488

>>14757427
>If no one is around, does the tree even exist? >How can it fall, if no one is perceiving it?

>> No.14757491

>>14757427
God perceives all, thus it made a sound.

>> No.14757492

*BRAAAAAAAAAP* Sorry my student, but my strict and regular diet gives me the most awful ga- *BRAAAAAP* What was your question agai- *BRAAAAP*

>> No.14757508

>>14757491
But doesn't that imply change in God, teacher? Shouldn't we rather say that He had the knowledge that it would've happened from all eternity?

>> No.14757524

>>14757508
Yes, God was both aware of what was to happen and also caused it to happen, along with being present at the happening ( and also in the past and future and elsewhere in all that exists).

>> No.14757529

>>14757508
>>14757524
God exists outside of time and space.
Omnipresence precludes things like foreknowledge.
God is omniscient.

>> No.14757618

>>14757529
Can God know something he couldn't know, Mr. KANT?

>> No.14757639

>ITT: People who haven't even bothered to read the Transcendental Aesthetic or even the Introduction to the Critique.
Embarrassing

>> No.14757643

>>14757618
Sure. God can limit his own knowledge/power. Else he wouldn't be God.
He has a will just like we do.

When reading a book, do you immediately flip to the last page to find out what happens? I imagine God exercises the same constraint when it comes to His omniscience.

>> No.14757679

>>14757427
The key word is "no one". There could have easily been an animal capable of hearing it. You should have said "nothing". Kant out.

>> No.14757707

"Yes. It follows a priori from the concept of tree's falling and sound."

>> No.14757728

>>14757643
No. God does not do things which are against His attributes, for example God doesn't break His promises. You're anthropomorphisising God if you ascribe human weakness and inconsistency to Him.
God is always All-knowing

>> No.14757829

>>14757427
Shaddap studen or ama immanus rant aha

>> No.14757839

>>14757492
You're clearly a migrant who doesn't read. I'm not going to highlight what made you stick out so easily.

>> No.14757843

>>14757492
based

>> No.14757872

>>14757839
Reddit is based. This board is ours now.

>> No.14758061

>>14757728
This. Instead we must assume the transcendent properties of god will always preserve a relative state of omnipotence to any problem conceptually faced against. God can create a rock "which god could not lift", and he could lift the rock, remaining an omnipotent god. Nobody said the divinity can necessarily be inscribed into logical apparatus as a consistent singularity.

>> No.14758170

>>14757427
You have failed to define "sound", just as you have failed this class

>> No.14758709

>>14757728
>>14758061
Of course He can. It's hypostatis, particularly Hypostatic Union: God can be say be 100% God and 100% Human. He can reattain His transcendent essence while exercising energies that can be understood by us, like in human relatability. Hence the personhood of Christ from the Trinity.
This precludes our regulation of God as some unknowable force and allows us to cataphatically & apophatically understand God and His will.

If Man is created in God's image and God Himself has become a man, then this endows man with a partial divine nature of which to transcend to. We'll never be 100% divine like God, but we are some measure of divinity and can improve ourselves toward a near godlike emulation (Theosis).
This is only possible with and through the hypostatic union of the God-Man of Christ. If we follow the will, life, and teachings of Christ, then we will be on a path of transcendence ourselves in a move that is cooperative with God i.e. become saints/divinitized/holy.
>God was made man, so that man may become like God.
>~Saint Athanasius

>> No.14759893

>>14757427
“Both sound heard and sound unheard are simply illusions of Maya, and, by the way, Buddha is outside of it, and can grasp everything that did and did not happen at once”, answered Kant after consulting “Buddhism for dummies”.

>> No.14759947

>>14757452
Brainlet
How a out you try this http://nandgame.com/ to understand how complicated systems can arise from simple rules.

>> No.14760041

>>14757707
Probably this desu

>> No.14760081

>>14757427
the tree is noumenal so yes

>> No.14760159

>>14757459
Berkely never said that. Some american journel came up with that thought example 200+ years after Berkley.
read the books instead of watching shitty animes (note how i didnt say anime is shit)

>> No.14760249

>>14757427
if a tree falls in a forest and noone is around to perceive it, then there is someone around to perceive it, or how would we know noone was around to perceive the falling tree?
thus it makes a sound.

>> No.14760261

>>14757427
The tree's falling is noumenal.

>> No.14761781

>>14758709
tl;dr believe these jewish fairy tales or literally burn for eternity

>> No.14761840

>>14757427
>STOP MASTURBATING THIS INSTANT YOUNG WILLARD

>> No.14761891
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14761891

>>14757457
Wrong. Sound exists without an audience. It is noise that is only present when one perceives it as such.

>> No.14762008

>>14757427
Kant's transcendental idealism is different from Berkeley's phenomenalism but it's hard to see how he would answer in a manner that substantially different.

For Kant, the tree falling would have to be given in sensation to the pure apriori forms of intuition (space and time). The pure understanding emerges from the categories applied to the logical judgements. This application of concepts to objects or categories & judgements to intuitions constitutes a given representation (the tree falling) and makes it available to conscious understanding.

Kant claims that the noumenon can only be known negatively as what conditions all possible representations aphrenhended in consciousness. We cannot say anything else about it as it is not given in experience or known positively i.e whether it has spatial properties, is temporal etc.