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14730200 No.14730200 [Reply] [Original]

Reminder that Avril is the best person in this entire story

>> No.14730360

How?

>> No.14730382
File: 977 KB, 1200x1500, Avril_Lavigne.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14730382

>> No.14730458

>>14730360
Because Hal says she would cry if Orin called her. She's that decent and that good of a mother

>> No.14730466

>the best person in the entire story
How can it be anyone else but Mario? Reminder that Avril is a slut

>> No.14731260

‘Coatlicue Complex.’216

216. No clue

>> No.14731267

>>14730200
Did you miss the parts where she cosplays with John Wayne and fucks the arab attache among other canadian insurgents, causing Himself to commit suicide?
It's also implied she had a relation with Orin.

>> No.14731588

>>14730200
The only person in IJ that could be called good is Mario, everyone else is essentially the same, just in different places regarding the denial/acceptance of their various copes. Way to miss one of the major themes in the novel.

>> No.14731648

>>14731588
>>14731267
This

>> No.14731733

>>14731267
>fucks the arab attache among other canadian insurgents, causing Himself to commit suicide?
It's also implied she had a relation with Orin.
These are all just conjecture/rumor, no proof of any of them. It is also conjectured that she is the one that left the bottle of wild turkey out for Himself to find out of petty jealousy, Himself sobered up for Joelle but not for her, but this is very unlikely.

>> No.14731738

>>14730200
I just bought this book yesterday.

>> No.14731744

>>14731733
It's also implied she slept with CT (her half brother) and Mario is his kid and that's why he's so fucked up.
And she's not a good mother. There's numerous times this is illustrated, especially the mold eating scene. She tries to be a good mother but fails. She should have disciplined Orin when he killed her dog. Her attempts at not making Mario uncomfortable backfire. And the whole thing with her not wanting to make the kids feel pressured to do anything result in them, esp. Hal, to completely lose their drive. Orin doesn't care about football except to get girls and Hal loses his passion for tennis (the drugs contributed too obviously but still).

>> No.14731778

>>14731733
>These are all just conjecture/rumor, no proof of any of them.
You could say that about the whole book. Conversely, where is the evidence that Avril is anything but a disturbed, cheating whore? Even Hal imagines her fucking JW by the last chapter.
Mario is clearly a result of a recessive gene disorder.

>> No.14731784

>>14731744
Not implied, just a rumor and everything else in the novel regarding their relationship suggests otherwise. Mario could just as well be fucked up because he was very premature and Avril was drinking and smoking during the pregnancy, she did not even know she was pregnant.

The biggest evidence provided that Mario is CTs is that Mario has a genetic disorder that CTs mom sort of looks like she had and CTs discomfort around Mario, but there is plenty in the novel to suggest that CT would be uncomfortable around Mario regardless.

Also, think CT and Avril were step sibblings, not half sibblings, but there may have been some ambiguity here.

>> No.14731791

Even if you remove all the stuff about her being addicted to extramarital affairs, there's still that scene with her giving Hal the apple. That's what really creeped me out the most.

>> No.14731805

JOI kills himself on April 1st (Avril I.)
Clearly she's the cause of his suicide.

>> No.14731830

>>14731784
Go back to your stairblaster CT

>> No.14731834

>>14731778
>You could say that about the whole book.
No, you really could not, Hal and Gately's stories are quite simple and direct and the bulk of the novel.

>Avril is anything but a disturbed, cheating whore?
No one ever said she was not, we know she is, but we only know she sleeps with JW, rest is conjecture. Hal does not imgine their fucking, he acknowledges that he knows about it and does not care in the slightest.

>Mario is clearly a result of a recessive gene disorder.
>>14731784
>Mario could just as well be fucked up because he was very premature and Avril was drinking and smoking during the pregnancy, she did not even know she was pregnant.

>addicted to extramarital affairs
That is always rumor. The apple did not bother me, but she creeps me out more than any other character in the novel. Stecyk made her easier for me to swallow though, but the thankgiving diner scene is probably the most difficult part of the novel for me, it just makes me so uncomfortable.

>>14731805
Not at all what Joelle told Molly Knotkin, and Joelle is the only person we really seems to know Himself in the slightest.

>> No.14731848

>>14731834
>Hal does not imgine their fucking
He does though, unambiguously, when he is lying on the floor being "horizontal" during his breakdown.

>> No.14731852

>>14731834
>Believing Molly Knotkin's testimony
kek, you're referring to the most unreliable narrator the book to back up your claim?

>> No.14731871

>>14731848
No, he acknowledges it, he does not imagine it. His bit of information during the VR5 scene about his relationship with JW is the interesting and important bit here.

>> No.14731888

>>14731588
everyone else is the same because dfw is a gigantic autist who cant write characters

>> No.14731890

After seeing Knives Out I now think Rian Johnson is the best person to adapt Infinite Jest. He even has this thing about Gravity's Rainbow.

Also, the only two likeable/relatable characters in this are Mario and Gately and maybe Joelle

>> No.14731891

>>14731852
No, there is more to back that up, both Hal and Joelle back it up elsewhere, Molly just spells it out black and white.

How is Molly the most unreliable narrator in the book? Gately and Hal are the only things resembling reliable narrators in the book.

>> No.14731898

>>14731888
>t. never read IJ

>> No.14731899
File: 5 KB, 250x174, cringe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14731899

>>14731890
>can't even handle a star wars movie
>thinks he can deliver on IJ

>> No.14731905

>>14731891
>How is Molly the most unreliable narrator in the book?
It's pointed out quite clearly. You weren't paying attention if you think otherwise.

>> No.14731913

>>14731905
and yet, you can not point it out.

>> No.14731920

>>14731898
i have tho, everyone is the same witty and lethargic faggot, from the retarded addict to the most gifted autist

>> No.14731941

>>14731913
You believe Molly Notkin then you have to concede to believing Avril's relation with Orin, the acid in the face incident, the fact Avril has no connections with anti-American groups, that Avril placed the Wild Turkey, that Joelle is actually called 'Lucille Duqette' and that JOI's suicide was inspired by Joele''s mother's garbage disposal suicide

Do you feel like an idiot yet?

>> No.14732001

>>14731920
Ok, you didn't understand it then.

>>14731941
>Do you feel like an idiot yet?
No. Just because I believe one thing Molly said, does not mean I have to believe it all. Molly is very clear about all those things being conjecture/rumor and even states explicitly that the JOI/Joelle's moms suicides could not be connected because "they did not even know each other existed."

>> No.14732183

>>14732001
>Ok, you didn't understand it then.
i did tho, but it still doesnt change the fact that all characters have the exact same personality, and im not talking about being hopeless or addicted, their mannerisms, their dialogue everything is exactly the same. Its clear that dfw cant write characters, he self-inserts his own autism onto everyone in the book.

>> No.14732260

>>14732183
>i did tho,
Then why are you memeing?

>> No.14732434

she wanted to fuck her son and drove her husband to suicide by fucking everyone else

>> No.14732459

>>14732434
this.
OP is a retard that believed Notkin
/thread

>> No.14732489

>>14731913
Not that anon but still gotta call you a brainlet.
Molly's narration is entirely an interview. So it's not here stream of consciousness, it's her conversation with another character who is asking her very specific questions. Just one example, we hear it from Molly the story about Joelle's disfigurement. That doesn't come from Joelle, but from Molly when asked about her. And elsewhere it's implied (but left ambiguous) that she may not actually be disfigured at all.

>> No.14732835

>>14732489
When did I ever even imply it was a stream of conscious? The interview aspect is everything my point is built on, any time she answers a question with anything other then repeating what Joelle told her, she adds on that it is just conjecture, rumor, or bullshit as far as she is concerned. This suggests she is actually a fairly reliable narrator, certainly not even in the running for most unreliable narrator in the novel. We do not really have enough information on her to judge her reliability, all we really have is the bit when Joelle is about to have 'too much fun,' which is unreliable due to Joelle's current mental state, and the interview.

Most everything, if not everything she reports that Joelle told her, can be corroborated elsewhere in the novel.

>> No.14732867

Don Gately is the only real hero of the whole book

>> No.14732900

>>14731890
what ? come on

>> No.14732965

>>14732489
>And elsewhere it's implied (but left ambiguous) that she may not actually be disfigured at all.
Forgot to adress this. Only way she was not disfigured is if O is in on the lie. When Hal reflects on O and his lady friends, he touches on how his relationships with them changed after Joelle was disfigured, he had to get them to fall in love with him before he left them, it was no longer just one night stands. Unlikely O would be in on such a lie.

I think there is also a case to show that Joelle did change her name at some point, through a fair amount of the novel her name is actually avoided, she is the PGOAT. I realized this on my last read but have not gone through and checked in which time periods she is the PGOAT and which she is Joelle or if there is overlap, something for the next reading.

>> No.14733222

>it's the ultimate book about life bro, it's so deep and existential bro
>A bunch of addicts sad because they went 5 minutes without doing blow or smoking weed
>oh and 500 pages about tennis

>> No.14733314

>>14731890
>He even has this thing about Gravity's Rainbow
cringe

>> No.14734331

>>14731260

Can anyone explain this IJ footnote?? Who is saying 'no clue'

>> No.14734346

>>14731260
>>14734331
Google it. It's there even though it's some super obscure summerian mythology reference.

>> No.14735807

>>14733222
I bet you rate and evaluate memes as well because everything has to be superficial and linear
Protip: you need to be close to pro levels of irony to begin even comprehending this text

>> No.14735842

>>14731890
Nah, bro. Charlie Kaufman is clearly a better fit.

>> No.14737091

how did Orin know the effects of Infinite Jest without watching it himself
why coudnt James' wraith go get the IJ master if he could get the DMZ
did the wraith put the DMZ on his toothbrush or chewing tobacco, the later would work well with the whole spitting into NASA cup motif

>> No.14737250

>>14730458

She sexually molested Orin.

>> No.14737810

>>14731588
thisssss

>> No.14737822
File: 30 KB, 512x512, image.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14737822

Why do these get so infrequent towards the end?

>> No.14737835

>>14735807
Have you ever listened to any interviews with Wallace? Specifically, have you ever listened to any interviews where he details his beliefs regarding irony?

>> No.14737992

>>14737822
what was this even supposed to be? eclipse? lens?

>> No.14738066

>>14737091
1. Joelle probably mentioned it and knowing Orin he may have tried it out on a Subject
2. He is only haunting E.T.A., just as Hamlet's father only haunted the castle
3. It's likely the toothbrush if you consider that it's when Hal puts the toothbrush back in and talks to Brandt and Kenkle that he first starts spazzing out

>> No.14738094

>>14731890
IJ should never be adapted but if it had to be it obviously would have to be a tv series.

>> No.14738100

>>14735807
>DFW
>ironic
This has to be the dumbest most fucking retarded bait I have ever seen. FUCK YOU

>> No.14738121

>>14737091
There is no way Orin could have had the entertainment in the first place, he cut off all ties with the family before it was made and did not resume contact with Hal until after it was getting distributed. How does anyone connect the wraith to the DMZ? Or to anything outside Gately? These are all massive stretches of the imagination that require ignoring a great deal of concrete information.

>>14737250
Possibly, hard to say for certain.

>>14737822
Because people ask questions like yours instead of discussing the novel.

>> No.14738192

>>14738121
No, you just didn't read the book enough and missed key info.

Orin got the master from Himself's head, thus releasing his wraith.

Himself made the floor tiles drop and stole Pemulis's stash, thus acquiring the DMZ.
Stice is clearly possessed by him, giving him the ability to warp the ball in space and beat Hal. At the Whataburger it's implied Hal faces off against JOI playing through Stice's body.

The fact that everyone in the Enfield area uses Ghostwords tells you that JOI might be fucking with their heads and thus is also the narrator of the book.

>> No.14738217

>>14738192
>Orin got the master from Himself's head, thus releasing his wraith.
Doesn't that happen after all the events of the novel? Right before Hal and Gately exhume his corpse?

>> No.14738231

>>14738217
No, that is when they are trying to find the Anti-Entertainment.
All masters were buried with JOI. This is established by multiple characters.

>> No.14738255

>>14738192
Orin does not even know where Himself was burried. Moron.

>>14738217
Orin did not get the master, he did not even know the film existed, he cut off all contact with the family and Joelle long before and did not resume contact until he started calling Hal, long after.

>> No.14738264

>>14738255
Cringe take.
Who do you even think sent the package to the medical attache?
"Happy Anniversary"

>> No.14738280

>>14738264
Do you really think there are not unanswered questions in this novel? Perhaps you should stick to sitcoms and hollywood.

>> No.14738282

>>14738231
Orin gave the master to the AFR, so I hope they tortured him and bled him to death

>> No.14738287

>>14738280
kek, everything is a fact until it invalidates your shit take.
In fact, why am I arguing with a guy who believed Molly Notkin's testimony of all things?

>> No.14738303

>>14738282
That was a dream.

>>14738287
You have yet to provide a single bit of information to back your ideas up.

>> No.14738312

>>14738303
>You have yet to provide a single bit of information to back your ideas up.
Infinite Jest (1996, David Foster Wallace).

This will be your last (You).

>> No.14738314

>>14738231
isnt the anti-Entertainment DMZ, made to work in conjunction with IJ to fix Hal?

>> No.14738327

>>14738312
You have not once adressed a single point I have made, just insults because that is all you have.

>> No.14738390

>>14738303
>That was a dream
What?

>> No.14738411

>>14738390
O's interrogation was a dream. AFR never gets him.

>> No.14738414

>>14738411
>O's interrogation was a dream. AFR never gets him.
Where is that explained?

>> No.14738483

>>14738414
Hal mentions O in the first part, year of glad, AFR kill after they interrogate, O would not be alive in the year of glade if they caught him. It is just showing why he always wakes up in sweat.

>> No.14738840

>>14738121
>Because people ask questions like yours instead of discussing the novel.
uhh what's your problem

>> No.14738855

>>14737992
Well the first time I thought it was anything other than a chapter marker was the part that talks about Orin hearing the sound of the crowd in a football stadium. It's described as a "vowel sound" and hinted that the sound is "O" but I don't think it says it outright. Orin himself is also referred to as "O." throughout the text.

>> No.14738860

>>14738066
>He is only haunting E.T.A
He talks to Gately in the hospital.

>> No.14738958

>>14738414
Was trying to remember the exact bit and ended up skimming the first section trying to find it, all I saw in that part is Hal refering to O in the present tense, which suggests he is still alive, but that is not the bit that I almost remember. I am guessing it is just one of those random lines that DFW throws in. Seems I am now rereading IJ again, when I find the bit, I will report in what ever IJ/DFW thread happens to be going on at that time.

>>14738840
Great post, I will never be able to look at IJ, or even life, the same as I did before.

>>14738066
He starts going off long before that toothbrush scene, back before the eschaton debacle. At the eschaton and while waiting in the headmasters office after the debacle are the first two big examples, but there are lesser ones going back before it all.

>> No.14739476

>>14738958
Why are you being a dick, I just noticed something about the structure of the book and asked a question about it. Why do you think this isn't valid?

>> No.14739607

>>14739476
Because I misunderstood your post, I did not connect your pic related to the post, thought you were refering to the tendency of IJ threads to have a brief period of activity and then fizzling out with infrequent posts. This is why "pic related" is a thing, it helps to avoid such confusion.

Also, just ignore assholes.

>> No.14740334

>>14737822
I thought it was the moon and indicated a year change but that theory doesn't hold

>> No.14740374

>>14740334
>I thought it was the moon
I assume DFW used them as a reference to GR which also used them in place of chapter numbers.

>> No.14740379

>>14740374
GR used

[] [] [] [] [] []

>> No.14740454

>>14740379
Thats right. There is some other book which uses them...

>> No.14740460

>>14730200
I know I know
>start with the greeks
But can I read this without going through odyssey and iliad?
Did manage to read Barry Strauss trojan war and some of edith Hamilton's mythology but currently stuck around 40% through iliad.

Also same question with Ulysses (read dubliners and portrait)

>> No.14740469

>>14740460
Yes
Read the cliff notes b4 each chapter of Ulysses

>> No.14741324

>>14730200
Were Avril and Orin banging?

Also my favorite character was by far was Michael Pemulis or The Stork

>> No.14742489

>>14739607
>This is why "pic related" is a thing, it helps to avoid such confusion.
I'm pretty sure "pic related" grew out of "pic unrelated," which was used for OPs which need an image. The assumption was that the image was related to the post and you needed to clarify that it wasn't. But now I guess people are so used to unrelated pics that you need to specify when it is related.