/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14689073]

Can VNs be considered literature if they explore concepts beyond waifus and teach you something?

[Anonymous No.14689079]

I don't care, but Doki Doki was fun. Imagine being in a literature club with 4 cuties and writing poems for them every night. What could be better?

[Anonymous No.14689083]

>>14689073
Does it matter?

[Anonymous No.14689088]

>>14689079
The only time I ever was interested in reddit was going on /r/DDLC and posting poetry/reading other people's poetry on the writing weekend threads
They stopped doing that though, which made me pretty sad, since I ended up getting a lot better and saved a lot of nice poetry, though I also don't think I've visited reddit since they stopped

[Anonymous No.14689149]

>>14689088
I would be better if you never did.

[Anonymous No.14689154]

>>14689088
I missed that. That's a shame.
We should make DDLC poems general threads and dedicate our poems to our chosen waifus.

[Anonymous No.14689167]

>tfw so autistic that managed to get accepted into Ivy League school just because Yamaku was based on it

[Anonymous No.14689237]

Yes

[Anonymous No.14689957]

>>14689079
doki doki was a simple and wholesome

[Anonymous No.14690023]

>>14689073
what the fuck is a VN if you're going to use jargon explain what it is fucking retard

[Anonymous No.14690256]

>>14690023
>not knowing what a VN is
a literal boomer

[Anonymous No.14691043]

>>14690023
Visual novel, for exampl: Katawa Shoujo

[Anonymous No.14691051]

>>14689073
Clannad’s original VN is high art, so yes

[Anonymous No.14691061]

>Only one post that isn't about EVN trash
Why does /lit/ have such terrible taste in VNs?

[Anonymous No.14691065]

>>14689073
Things I blame for my autogynephilia:
>Anime
>Manga
>4chan
>Accelerationism
>"The Occult"
>"Theory"

[Anonymous No.14691100]

>>14691065
You should just blame yourself and try to fix it, fag. Knowing you have an issue is the first step towards fixing it.

[Anonymous No.14691107]

>>14690023
It's what western weebs call translated eroge

[Anonymous No.14691124]

>>14689073
Which VNs are you refering to, more exactly?

[Anonymous No.14691132]

>>14691124
Ones with even a little more substance than "fuck bitches jerk off next route"

[Anonymous No.14691151]

>>14691107
Not all VNs are eroge retard.

[Anonymous No.14691157]

Steins;Gate was

[Anonymous No.14691195]

>>14689088

[Anonymous No.14691247]

>>14691065
I'm into all those things and cis as fuck. You probably just have bad genetics.

[Anonymous No.14691286]

>>14691195
Egh, it's a shame r/DDLC changed so much, the game becoming so mainstream in general is both a blessing and a curse. The fun of things like Writing Weekend was why I went though, but if that's what it's like, I'm glad I stopped visiting when they cancelled it.

[Anonymous No.14691299]

>>14691157
Not really, although it's good it doesn't have much literary substance

[Anonymous No.14691300]

>>14691286
>Liking DDLC
Stop having bad taste

[Anonymous No.14691323]

>>14691300
I never thought it was great, per se. It was pretty bad, even for a parody, and not even the first of it's kind. I just enjoyed the community until it went downhill and transformed into, for example, >>14691195

[Anonymous No.14691410]

>>14691323
Reminder Totono comes out in English this month (supposedly)

[Anonymous No.14691443]

>>14691132
Those might certainly have some value, but I'm not sure I would consider them literature. The best novel you've read (if you don't read airport shlock and nothing else) is probably better than the best VN you've played. Still, I don't find it too far-fetched to think that someone out there has tried to make an artistic VN.
>>14691323
Have you tried to post on /vg/'s Doki Doki General? Although chances are that it has long since degenerated into waifufaggotry. I don't even want to know what happened to the Katawa Shoujo General. Eight fucking years. My God...

[Anonymous No.14691453]

>tfw the best VN ever written has three English translations and all of them are terrible

[Anonymous No.14691471]

>>14689073
Story focused VNs can be considered literature but only the same way comics can for example. They are still vastly different from books since they're using images and music to add on to the experience. But they can genuinely hold messages and themes that teach you something. Most prominent examples include basically everything written by Ryukishi07, so Higurashi/Umineko/Higanbana/... and Subahibi. Even Eroge like Fate can have genuinely interesting themes.

[Anonymous No.14691493]

>>14691443
I still go on /ksg/, it's pretty fun. /ddlc/ has never really done it for me, unfortunately, it just seems like they try too hard to be something that none of them want to be.

[Anonymous No.14691534]

>>14691493
>they try too hard to be something that none of them want to be
What do you mean?

[Anonymous No.14691535]

>>14691195
One eye on the intrinsic meaninglessness of life, one eye on the bitches

[Anonymous No.14691571]

what are some good VNs you can recommend me, that are not waifu simulators and have an actual interesting story?

[Anonymous No.14691578]

>>14691534
The environment feels fabricated, to me at least. Maybe I'm just making things up though, and I'm just more used to /ksg/ so it felt too weird to transplant myself.

[Anonymous No.14691597]

>>14691571
Hanachirasu
Saya no Uta
Subahibi
Raging Loop
Island
Himawari
Ef
Dies Irae

[Anonymous No.14691607]

>>14691578
Yeah, I did get that. I was wondering what makes it to feel fabricated. Also just how much can you talk about such a short game?

[Anonymous No.14691608]

>>14691065
Literally no one asked or cares
>I saw cartoon-tier idealizations of a gender and have a sad that my own life wasn't as happy as a drawing's
Well no shit, actual women don't have lives as happy as a god damned cartoon character created by lonely men, either.
Being trans is otherkin with regrettable legal protection but it's cringe otherkin all the same.

[Anonymous No.14691656]

>>14691608
>I saw cartoon-tier idealizations of a gender
I know this isn't what you were talking about, but I think that that encapsulates very well why VNs (romance ones at least) are pretty unlikely to stand up to real literature. They aren't realistic. And I don't think they are even suppossed to be, they are made to fulfil a fantasy.

[Anonymous No.14691700]

>>14691656
Holy shit go to the head of the class, Captain Obvious.

[Anonymous No.14691723]

>>14691700
You say that and yet there still are people who keep wondering whether VNs can be literature or not.

[Anonymous No.14691738]

>>14691299
>literary substance
buzzword

[Anonymous No.14691745]

>>14691656
Literature isn't defined by realism.

[Anonymous No.14691763]

>>14691723
Unless you can define any limitation on the medium that does not apply to conventional literary narrative, the question answers itself.

[Anonymous No.14691815]

>>14691763
That's a very good point, I admit. I can't define any such limitation. Maybe another Anon can.

[Anonymous No.14691855]

>>14691815
There is nothing a print novel has that a visual novel does not except page numbers. Stop resisting the obvious here.

[Anonymous No.14692157]

>>14691453
>still caring for English translations in the days of mouseover dictionaries and highly refined machine translation
lel

[Anonymous No.14692200]

>>14692157
>highly refined machine translation
>Japanese
pick one and no, ATLAS is not highly refined and neither is Google Translate

[Anonymous No.14693415]

>>14689073
Would a good writer choose to write a VN though?

[Anonymous No.14693484]

>>14693415
Sometimes. The medium can be a good introduction to literature in general, and from everything in the otaku cultural spectrum it's the closest to being real art (mostly because it specifically targets adults as the whole of its audience).
And sometimes those who are not good writers still somehow make something greater than themselves, and it's wonderful.
I really wouldn't recommend diving into the format if you don't know Japanese or don't have any intention of learning it, though. The whole anglospheric subculture behind these works and what constitutes a "good" translation ends up significantly hurting them in the long run, especially prose-centric works like >>14691453

[Anonymous No.14693498]

>>14691323
They're just stupid fun mostly. Don't really read them anymore. They're too long for their own good.

[Anonymous No.14693509]

>>14693484
explain subahibi to a brainlet like me

[Anonymous No.14693522]

>>14691043
okay, I know what that is. I played it years ago. I think I had a heart attack and died. Or I was murdered.

[Anonymous No.14693552]

>>14691571
Saihate no Ima

[Anonymous No.14693613]

>>14691323
sauce?

[Anonymous No.14693627]

You may not like it but this is what peak vn looks like

[Anonymous No.14693681]

>>14693509
It's just a collection of referenced works and personal thoughts that interchange between the experiences and ideas of the characters and SCA-Ji himself (AKA a futa-obssesed Heisei otaku with a small passion for reading) that cumulate into a 50-hour cope on why life is shit but maybe at the end of the road and through some amount of effort you, too, will think you've had a wonderful time.

基本的に
この世界は呪われていて
この世界は全く美しくない
生きることに意味はなく
生きることに意義もない

でも
そんな世界で
そんな人生で
何かひとつでも
価値を感じられるものが
見つけられたら

ああ
生きていてよかったって
ああ
生きていかなくちゃって
そう思えるものに出会えたら
そこからは きっと
素晴らしき日々

Basically.

[Anonymous No.14693719]

>>14693681
cant read these moonrunes

[Anonymous No.14693720]

>>14693681
This is meant to be the work that is supposed to make me separate my life into pre and post subahibi periods...woah....

[Anonymous No.14693722]

>>14693509
On a fundamental level it's a work about locomotives and trains.

[Anonymous No.14694091]

>>14689073
>VN
No
>LN
Maybe. taking over weeb thread. /lit/ approved LN?

[Anonymous No.14694314]

>>14694091
>LN
lol get a load of this retard
you know those books are for children, right?

[Anonymous No.14694347]

did anyone here read oyasumi (goodnight) punpun? would you consider it /lit/ approved? its a manga but it explores pretty deep topics

[Anonymous No.14694437]

>>14694314
>says the guy posting on a site for children

[Anonymous No.14694501]

>>14694437
dont fucking reply to me, faggot, i thought i finally got sauce but it was just your stupid fucking post

[Anonymous No.14694523]

>>14689073
no

MODS DELETE THIS THREAD. 3. 2. 1.

[Anonymous No.14694539]

>>14694501
Sorry, no need to be rude. But it's funny, I actually know the sauce but now I'm going to give it to you. Assuming this is you(>>14693613)

[Anonymous No.14694606]

Here is my list of English-translated kamige:

>Crescendo
It's a visual novel about high school romance but the characters aren't all the screeching, drooling anime cliches that people usually think of- made me incredibly nostalgic. The prostitute girl has a great route.
>Forest
Visual novel about stories. You won't find anything like this in the medium or any other medium for that matter. Borrows a lot from British children's novels, but you don't need to read them to understand this. Incredibly polarizing and overlooked due to how cryptic it is (I have seen almost nobody discuss this despite Umineko almost having the same concept).
>Hanachirasu
Murderer-rapist protagonist goes around cutting people down in order to have a match with his rival. Very often has textbook-tier infodumps about kendo, which people often complain about (because they are plebs). If you've ever worked toward a goal and sacrificed a part of you to achieve it, then you will understand the protagonist's struggle.
>Kikokugai
Urobuchi-written, very technically proficient (story keeps its pacing the whole way, fight scenes aren't too long, has a sense of tension all throughout the game, music is excellent). The ending of this one is very controversial, but I think it's excellent. Remember to fuck your sister!
>Symphonic Rain
Slow-paced story, somber mood, relatively realistic characters and dialogue
>Swan Song
The characters here remind me of a lot of Dostoevsky's- has a used goods girl and also a pure girl, seen from the perspective of multiple characters (including a NEET character who descends into madness).

All of these are less than 20 hours long, so you won't have too much trouble going through them. Enjoy.

[Anonymous No.14694797]

>>14694539
youre a faggot who doesnt know the source
>>14693613
https://vndb.org/v7738

[Anonymous No.14694815]

>>14691065
Catnip doesn't turn you in to a cat.

[Anonymous No.14694835]

Maggot Baits is the only VN worth playing

[Anonymous No.14695198]

>>14691065
lol imagine having such a shitty pathetic life that being a woman would be better

[Anonymous No.14695392]

Not exactly, but it can still be worth your time to read.

[Anonymous No.14695441]

>>14694835
is this any good without the sex scenes? i like ero-guro but i am trying to abstain from sex (mostly because i like ero-guro)

[Anonymous No.14695457]

>>14689073
We really need a weeb general up at all times on /lit/ so LN/VN/manga/anime inquiry's and wank can go there.

[Anonymous No.14695493]

>>14689073
If you call your own dick literature and you read it 30 times a day no one will argue with you.

Do what you want. Enjoy. Stop self labeling like a beta faggot

[Anonymous No.14695529]

>>14695457
I agree, my thread about how I don't have a gf where I said "books for this feel" under a gif of fat disabled person falling down an open sewer grate died for this thread

[Anonymous No.14695539]

>>14695529
post the gif

[Anonymous No.14695552]

>>14695539
sure

[Anonymous No.14695562]

>>14695552
don't be a fag
here's the real gif

[Anonymous No.14695572]

>>14695529
>durr board has a few disreputable threads therefore i'm justified in shitting it up with more shit :DDDD

[Anonymous No.14695583]

>>14695457
No, that already exists on /a/. Don't give them a reason to come here except to get bullied.

[Anonymous No.14695598]

>>14695572
It's just a little joke, dude, relax. Even still, this is an actual topic of discussion rather than thinly veiled blog posting and rec threads.

[Anonymous No.14695607]

>>14695583
I don't think VN's go on /a/. They're more for /v///vg/ or even /jp/.

[Anonymous No.14697091]

>>14691738
>buzzword
buzzword

[Anonymous No.14697206]

>>14693681
>基本的に
>この世界は呪われていて
>この世界は全く美しくない
>生きることに意味はなく
>生きることに意義もない
Retroactively refuted by Rene Guenon (pbuh).

[Anonymous No.14697210]

>>14694606
>Remember to fuck your sister!
Based.

[Anonymous No.14698021]

>>14689073
>Can VNs be considered literature
Bump
Also interested in this deep question.

[Anonymous No.14698095]

>>14689088
share some of ur favs faggot <3

[Anonymous No.14698122]

This thread is degenerate

>>14695562
God i wish i were that ball

[Anonymous No.14698170]

>>14697206
エージィですね

[Anonymous No.14698657]

>>14698122
>God i wish i were that ball
based and non-degenerate.

[Anonymous No.14698785]

>>14698170
>エージィ
edgy?

[Anonymous No.14698868]

>>14698785
he meant エッジー

[Anonymous No.14699008]

Indeed. Read The House in Fata Morgana. This is what a VN should be. Pure literature with visual and audio effects added.

[Anonymous No.14699103]

the point of books is that its words. fuck pictures. fuck movies. fuck sound.

[Anonymous No.14699997]

I once did a PowerPoint presentation on KS in highschool, about sexuality in literature. I regret it.

[Anonymous No.14700124]

I think VN's are kinda boring

What's the point of a online novel using tons of pictures if you have the ability to actually go beyond the boundaries of what a book can provide
>Hey use this unlimited technology to make a linear story that acts the same way as a manga but worse though

It's why in general don't like many VN's. If you're making a VN why not add onto that world, why not make it feel more livable so that the story has various paths, movable ai characters that act in response to the player, have the ability to be dynamic rather than static

I unno

I only respect VN's that have actual Gameplay associated with them

[Anonymous No.14700233]

>>14700124
linear stories are generally higher quality than non-linear stories

[Anonymous No.14700286]

>>14700233
Sure, but that's because it's much easier to keep track of things and more on point of progressing a story.

But if you really want to have something that will change hearts and minds, you have to really immersive a player in a story where both his actions can be tailored + have the ability to feel as if the world is infinite in the possibilities that the player can do

It's why I feel Sengoku Rance is a 10/10 in that aspect.
I wish other developers would follow along that path rather than trying to create a stylized book in an medium that isn't hindered by anything.

[Anonymous No.14700293]

>>14700286
>if you really want to have something that will change hearts and minds, you have to really immersive a player in a story where both his actions can be tailored + have the ability to feel as if the world is infinite in the possibilities that the player can do
lol youre on the wrong board

[Anonymous No.14700303]

>>14700286
>But if you really want to have something that will change hearts and minds, you have to really immersive a player in a story where both his actions can be tailored + have the ability to feel as if the world is infinite in the possibilities that the player can do

[Anonymous No.14700309]

>>14689073
If it has letters in it it's literature. Simple as.

[Anonymous No.14700372]

>>14700309
music is literature, as long as youre reading it

[Anonymous No.14701231]

VN are literature and LN are semi-literature.
Proof me wrong. Protip: you cannot.

[Anonymous No.14701251]

>>14701231
>literature = anything with artistic merit
Protip: this thread isnt actually about discussing whether or not VNs are literature, its just for discussing VNs

[Anonymous No.14701256]

>>14701231
Why semi-literature?

[Anonymous No.14701271]

>>14701256
Because they are plagued with cookie-cutter low-quality garbage with very few great works compared to dozens upon dozens of VN surpassing most (if not all) literature discussed on /lit/.

[Anonymous No.14701278]

>>14701271
>dozens of VN surpassing most (if not all) literature discussed on /lit/
what a fuckin statement

[Anonymous No.14701282]

>>14691247
>cis
you have to go back

[Anonymous No.14701301]

>>14693722
based and churchwardpilled

[Anonymous No.14701311]

>>14694347
A Girl on the Shore is good

[Anonymous No.14701326]

>>14697206
ベース、絶対に

[Anonymous No.14701344]

>>14701231
Why are VN's more literature than LN's?

[Anonymous No.14701354]

>>14701271
>dozens of VN surpassing most (if not all) literature discussed on /lit/
This. I read the prologue of pic related today and it retroactively BTFO the entirety of the Western canon for me for eternity; even considering that the protagonist has only spoken at most ~10 short lines up to this point.
I can't even begin to imagine the quality later on, given that it is said by /lit/erary weebs to be a 'War & Peace' tier epic crafted by a genuine Japanese philosopher trained in lethal Kendo.

[Anonymous No.14701376]

>>14701271
>dozens upon dozens of VN surpassing most (if not all) literature discussed on /lit/.
I am curious. Name a few of those VNs

[Anonymous No.14701417]

>>14694606
>The characters here remind me of a lot of Dostoevsky's- has a used goods girl and also a pure girl, seen from the perspective of multiple characters (including a NEET character who descends into madness)
The writer of Swan Song (Setoguchi) is a huge fan of russian literature. He incorporates a lot of themes from people like Dostoyevsky and Tolstoy into his works (Kira Kira and Carnival for example both are heavily influenced by Crime and Punishment). He came out with a new VN called Musicus recently which is absolutely fantastic. It should be coming out in English soon, so look forward to that.

[Anonymous No.14701484]

>>14701354
What's so great about the prologue? Can't read it myself, have to wait for the translation.

[Anonymous No.14701505]

How can anyone sit through a VN without being overwhelmed by how pathetic and stupid this activity is? Within the first hour I always give up because they make me want to kill myself.

[Anonymous No.14701510]

>>14701484
It's just good and literary while still being weeblike, also the prose is extremely enjoyable (even though I probably missed some things with not being a native speaker).
Nothing special about it in the grand schemes of things when compared to the rest, which I assume will be greater, it's just the only part I have read so far.

[Anonymous No.14701539]

>>14701505
how is it different than reading a book or watching an anime? What makes VN's so astronomically more inane?

[Anonymous No.14701542]

>can anime video games be considered literature

the absolute state of /lit/

[Anonymous No.14701562]

>>14701542
>>can anime video games be considered literature
>Yes. Moreover, only anime video games can truly be taken to be literature.

[Anonymous No.14701567]

>>14701542
>anime video games
????

[Anonymous No.14701612]

>>14701539
>how is it different
Can a book be considered a VN? No, of course not. How stupid are you? Go back back to /a/ and don't return until you've at least read the greeks.

[Anonymous No.14701621]

>>14701612
lol kys

[Anonymous No.14701636]

>>14701612
So basically, you don't have an answer. What a surprise.

[Anonymous No.14701774]

>>14701636
Can a book be considered a VN, yes or no?

[Anonymous No.14701779]

>>14701774
Of course not, Socrates! How could anyone consider a book a VN? It baffles the mind how anyone could come to such a conclusion!

[Anonymous No.14701797]

>>14701779
>le sarcasm
You have your answer. Not literature. Fuck off, retard.

[Anonymous No.14701804]

>>14701797
>getting this buttblasted

[Anonymous No.14701814]

>>14701804
>projecting your own buttblastedness onto me

[Anonymous No.14702178]

>>14689073

If you haven't read Umineko yet, read it. I have read many of the great classics, and I will tell you from personal experience that that this story is no less of a masterpiece. Taught me critical thinking better than my professors could, anyway.

[Anonymous No.14702782]

Based weebs

[Anonymous No.14703149]

>>14689073
>Teaching you something
You just don't get it. Quit easy pleasures in the form of cute anime pics and ingratiating VNs and tackle the difficult things in life.

[Anonymous No.14703512]

for me it's Kana ~Imouto~

[Anonymous No.14703758]

>>14691157
>Steins;Gate was
fucking garbage

[Anonymous No.14703807]

>weebs see an anime girl
>wow its a masterpiece

why are weebs so weak to the female essence?

[Anonymous No.14703950]

>>14703758
why?

[Anonymous No.14704037]

>>14703807
They are weak and failed males