/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14683700]

Can /lit/ confirm?

[Anonymous No.14683703]

>>14683700
Yes, I confirm

[Anonymous No.14683710]

Start with the Greeks. specifically Phaedrus.

[Anonymous No.14683733]

>>14683700
>Qu'est-ce que le logocentrisme

[Anonymous No.14683764]

People who have never learned to read have actually a much better memory.

[Anonymous No.14683771]

>>14683700
It's true

[Anonymous No.14683782]

>>14683700
>muh epic oral culture
>live like literal abbos
>get conquered by people with a writing system and hence a more developed civilisation from better organisation
almost every time

[Anonymous No.14683785]

>>14683700

I would hazard to suggest that is is true. But there is a hard limit I imagine.

Perhaps you could improve your memory by never writing things down and just remembering them.

But can your memory match the totality of written or useful knowledge you will be employing throughout your life?

You need to take into consideration that life today is, at least in terms of information density, much more complicated than what it would have been prior to industrialization.

To be a Leonardo da Vinci, an autodidact and sufficiently competent in multiple disciplines, is severely more difficult today due to the leaps of progress achieved through all of the possible disciplines.

The smartest of men must today specialize and pursue the very niche in order to be considered extra-ordinary in a particular field.

[Anonymous No.14684053]

does he believe this because he has proof or is it one of those instances when you say "well it makes sense so this is how it must have been"

[Anonymous No.14684084]

>>14683700
he thinks writing is for recording shit

[Anonymous No.14684329]

>>14684053
Varg and proofs lmao

[Anonymous No.14684387]

>>14683700
I read memoirs of my great-grandaunt, who was a wife of a Polish nobleman, and she noticed that illiterate peasants had amazing memory. I doubt that made them more intelligent, though.

[Anonymous No.14684400]

>>14683700
Imagine unironically writing down that writing down makes you stupid and that this idea makes you smart

[Anonymous No.14684436]

>>14683700

This is wrong. Gauls wrote plenty of stuff. We don't have any surviving long texts because no one bothered to make copies after the Roman conquest. But plenty of inscriptions still survive.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaulish_language#Corpus

[Anonymous No.14684442]

>>14683700
For once Varg is right.

[Anonymous No.14684448]

>>14683782
Varg's nordic people were never conquered by Romans.

[Anonymous No.14684450]

Socrates believed the same thing. He refused to write anything down because he thought it weakened the memory. That's why Plato followed him around recording everything.
In fact modern cognitive science claims the opposite, that writing and other forms of external memory serve as an extended scaffolding that supports cognitive functions. Studies of Alzheimer's patients who are removed from their homes (which have been marked up with reminders and notes everywhere) tend to crash hard and experience immediate cognitive decline.

[Anonymous No.14684457]

>>14684448
they're now importing retarded Africans in some strange bid to repent for things they never did

[Anonymous No.14684483]

>>14684329
>>14684084
varg is a fucking tard. he would justify eating sand (already does something similar with refined sugar) his beloved snownigger ancestors did it before him.
writing is useful for important messages, knowledge because it can be easily and well preserved. even in his shithole ideal tribal society, your tribe can have one exceptionally good blacksmith; one night he dies from pneumonia but thank god you didn't have a writing system so the next day you're back to sticks and arrows because no one is as smart as he was.
in an actual civilization, writing is obviously paramount

[Anonymous No.14684491]

>>14684436
also, after Caesar's campaign, the culture of the Gauls was slowly destroyed. Much like all Roman conquered territories.

We can't say what their cultures were actually like because most of it was destroyed, either by the Romans themselves, the passage of time or the Romanisation process.

Also, there were cultures without writing but with a system of recording commercial transactions. T

Not knowing how to read improves your memory. Not having your mind burdened by facts/knowledge/information, may help you retain newer information easily and help you focus.

Think about Shakespeare's play. A few years ago I and my mom I went to see Henry VIII, and by the third act, we were so bored and tired. And it made wonder how could people in the Elizabethan period focus and appreciate his plays, especially when most of the audience was not educated. It turns out that it was because they were not educated that they had a higher attention span. After all, their minds were 'empty'.

Nevertheless, not having a writing system is a major drawback

[Anonymous No.14684494]

>>14683700
this guy is stupid and the reason why is he doesn't realize most things written are done so for communication

[Anonymous No.14684504]

>>14684448
Varg specifically makes mention of the Gauls, who were conquered

[Anonymous No.14684505]

>>14683700
Varg, as usual, is right. Socrates warned against writing as well and its harmful effects on memory and true understanding. Some people used to be able to memorize huge epics and transmit them orally for generations, now people can’t even focus on a book for two minutes without getting bored.

[Anonymous No.14684557]

>>14683782
The alphabet and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race.

[Anonymous No.14684582]

>>14684483
> Implying blacksmiths didn't take apprentices and hands on skills are best transferred through print

Ivory tower cringe

[Anonymous No.14684592]

>>14684582
you realize how improvements to technology can't be kept going that way forever because the other tribesmen are simply not smart enough, assuming even one gets to a point where he could bring remarkable change?

[Anonymous No.14684595]

Lots of anti-Varg butthurt ITT.

[Anonymous No.14684606]

>>14684595
WRITING IS NOT DONE AS A MEANS TO AVOID MEMORATING EXCLUSIVELY, RETARD

[Anonymous No.14684612]

>Socrates said it so it must be true
The purpose of writing is to translate exact information across time and space, gtfo with this larper who thinks real life is middle Earth

[Anonymous No.14684631]

>>14683700
Writing down things will only make your memory worse to the extent that you need it less.
I'm sure people who don't wear shoes have much stronger foot soles than me. But that doesn't make them better at walking if you do take shoes into account.
Chimpanzees have better short-term memory than humans. Are they smarter?

[Anonymous No.14684663]

>not posting the second tweet

[Anonymous No.14684701]

Advantages of writing:

1) Writing allows saving previous thoughts in unlimited amounts, in the same exact & unchanging words.

2) Writers can see more of their thoughts from the writing surface, than from their mind: compare to doing mathematical calculations: it is much easier to write down the numbers and variables, than trying to remember all the details.

3) Mentally it would take longer to go through all the possible answers to complicated questions, and it'd be easier to miss some options.

4) People couldn't be taught without somebody speaking to teach them.

5) Teachings would go through the "broken phone" effect. When writing geniuses die, their writings stay, and can be re-taught over and over across millenia, exactly how they wrote them.

6) Forgotten teachings can resurface without people building all the necessary thoughts for finding them independently.

7) Almost anybody can be taught by almost any teacher, by getting their writings. One teacher can teach millions.

So writing definitely has its advantages.

It is all about your balance: you need memorization for maximal effect, but you need writing to go past where memorization alone can take you. Both skills should be practiced to your optimal balance.

[Anonymous No.14684716]

>>14683700
WHY didn't the Africans invent the wheel?

Because if you start to wheel things around in a cart instead of carrying them IT WILL WEAKEN YOUR LEGS. As they saw it, wheels were for people to weak and lazy to carry what they needed to.

WE have the same problem with wheels and laziness today...

[Anonymous No.14684723]

>>14684701

And it should be noted that practically every widely acknowledged genius practices writing more than the average human. Even Mozart wrote notes for his music. Imagine the trouble of memorizing all his compositions, if no writing existed?

[Anonymous No.14684753]

>>14684663
>dude take the hardest path lmao
>t. convicted murderer welfare queen

[Anonymous No.14684788]

>>14684595
good thing Socrates could have never been arsed to write something down

[Anonymous No.14684800]

>>14683700
the oral tradition is indeed for chad

[Anonymous No.14684843]

>>14684448
>Romans didn't conquer the entire world 2000 years ago
>that means everything that wasn't conquered by them was superior to them
These are some galaxy brain conclusions right there.

[Anonymous No.14685142]

>>14684329
DUDE PLACENTAS LMAO

[Anonymous No.14685198]

>>14684483
>in an actual civilization, writing is obviously paramount
that's the point, he doesn't want civilization

[Anonymous No.14685210]

>>14684663
If their route is supposed to be the hardest than he should be advocating the abandonce of writing.

[Anonymous No.14685245]

>Fjord nigger defending illiteracy

Why, I'd never

[Anonymous No.14685273]

>>14685198
Why should anyone entertain the ravings of a madman who wants to dismantle society?

[Anonymous No.14685294]

>>14684595
Nice insight, good thing Plato wrote it down.

[Anonymous No.14685304]

Why do all pagans have to be retarded?

[Anonymous No.14685411]

>>14684595
>LUL only losers disagree with varg
>writing is harmful
>*posts quote by Socrates*
>(A quote that would be mangled or lost if it's existence depended on oral transmission instead of written transmission)
Stop talking shit about writing.

[Anonymous No.14685484]

>>14684592
Yes.

[Anonymous No.14685488]

>>14685304
To be fair, they probably will in the near future given their current trajectory.

[Anonymous No.14686177]

Memory is the low IQ man's crutch. Pattern recognition chads like Erdos couldn't even remember where they kept their wallet but made discoveries everyday!

[Anonymous No.14686210]

who cares about smelly Gauls and why assume they had faster minds than the Romans? what did the Gauls invent with their superior brain power?

[Anonymous No.14686247]

>>14683700

>haha stupid niggers, you're inferior because you didn't write your history down
>actually, now cultures that didn't overuse writing were more intelligent

really glad we came full circle on this issue

[Anonymous No.14686258]

Varg is a very credulous retard.

[Anonymous No.14686283]

>>14683700
Spoken like a truly confused iq 108 pleb. Pretty much everything he comes up with by himself is BS.

[Anonymous No.14686352]

>>14683700
This is all true. Try it for yourself. Try to eliminate reliance on having information stored in writing and you'll see big gains in visualisation, spatial and logical manipulation, and memory. It makes sense. Imagine you're trying to remember a word and instead of grasping for it in your mind, or figuring it out based on how it's used and your preexisting knowledge, you just keep referring to a dictionary. There's no mental effort to recall or derive it, so the definition and use is not instilled or incorporated within the mind at large (such as other memories/associations).

However, it's not true that they didn't write for this reason though it may have been a rationalisation. The real reason is they simply didn't have it in their culture to write things down, which is the case for the vast majority. In fact, I think there's been maybe two instances of making use of general-purpose writing in history, that is applying a writing system fairly homogeneously to a wide range of uses. All other cases of this are derived from these two, Middle-eastern and Chinese. Do you know why Germanics didn't write runes on parchment? Because runes were for specific use carved into stone and wood. Their culture only had that precedent so when Christianised (adopting a part of another culture) they only very rarely wrote runes on parchment because Latin letters were for writing on parchment, and the other way around too, Latin letters were not for carving.

[Anonymous No.14686403]

>>14686210
>what did the Gauls invent with their superior brain power?
Superior metallurgy, the shields, armour, swords Romans copied and made shittier versions of, who knows what else they took, those are just the things they admit. Apparently worthy religious and trade and material culture because Celts spread around everywhere and influenced all the cultures around them, especially Italians/Romans. Probably better philosophers too given that they had a powerful druid class whereas Romans favoured opportunistic unprincipled statesman with no philosophical or divine inclination, only hungry for power, the precursors of our politicians today. The problem is they were conquered by the perfidious Romans who cared more about shit-talking and destroying others than making something of themselves and even if they wrote anything it wouldn't have been preserved as their language wasn't either.
>A belt made of 2.8 kilograms (6.2 lb) of pure gold, discovered in Guînes, France, 1200–1000 BC

[Anonymous No.14686512]

>>14686210
>what did the Gauls invent
>He thinks smart people use their brains to contribute to society

[Anonymous No.14686539]

>>14683700
No, Gauls and Nords didn't have a writing system because they had (and have) a genetically inferior level of intelligence.

[Anonymous No.14686556]

>>14684606
>>14684612
>>14685411
>doesnt understand the quote whatsoever
He goes beyond it too if you care to... read.

This is probably the reason Gauls didn't write too.
>A druid (Welsh: derwydd; Old Irish: druí; Scottish Gaelic: draoidh) was a member of the high-ranking professional class in ancient Celtic cultures. Perhaps best remembered as religious leaders, they were also legal authorities, adjudicators, lorekeepers, medical professionals, and political advisors. While the druids are reported to have been literate, they are believed to have been prevented by doctrine from recording their knowledge in written form, thus they left no written accounts of themselves. They are however attested in some detail by their contemporaries from other cultures, such as the Romans and the Greeks.

>>14686539
>Gauls and Nords didn't have a writing system
Yes they did. Their cultures weren't vulgar enough to use it generally. As much are not. Considering it an imperative is a bias of your own culture.

[Anonymous No.14686565]

>>14684436
Those are late inscriptions using the LATIN alphabet, dumbfuck.

[Anonymous No.14686596]

>>14686556
>Yes they did.
No, they did not.

[Anonymous No.14686652]

>The industrial revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
>The Protestant reformation and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
These were pretty true but now things are getting retarded
>the invention of the written word and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
Is this just abbo-apologism?
Coming soon:
>the creation of organised civilisation and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
>the agricultural revolution and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
>the domestication of animals and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
>clothes and their consequences have been a disaster for the human race
>the creation of fire by man and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
>basic tool use and its consequences have been a disaster for the human race
We could probably take this further as well

[Anonymous No.14687067]

>>14683700
>didn't bother with a writing system
>get conquered by a nation with a writing system
>their general writes a book about it
bravo

[Anonymous No.14687174]

>>14683700
It's probably true but you can do both. It's smarter to write it down for insurance.

[Anonymous No.14687234]

>>14686652

[Anonymous No.14687448]

>>14683700
Where are the gauls now?

[Nemo !!GgBWHLRiayD No.14687612]

Creative writing is practiced primarily for purpose of affirmation of idea, not confirmation of reality.

[Anonymous No.14687648]

>>14687234
>war
Wrong, see: chimpanzees

>malnutrition, famine
Weather effects wild plants too.

>over-population
More specifically, the Haber process did this.

[Anonymous No.14687723]

>>14683700
He's incorrectly conflating memorization with intelligence. Dumb people can have good memorization skills, too.

[Anonymous No.14689032]

>>14683700
Says the guy that pays for "steam games" because he is too lazy to pirate or use a physical copy

[Anonymous No.14689041]

>>14683782
>muh gnon
have imagination, there are ways to trick it for more time

[Anonymous No.14689050]

>>14684612
>writing preserves information exactly
jesus christ imagine being this retarded. if you want to preserve things EXACTLY, oral culture is superior.

[Anonymous No.14689055]

>>14686652
clothes, fire, basic tool use and domestication of animals were ok desu. you clearly understand this topic only through reading 4chan shitposts

[Anonymous No.14689059]

>>14687648
read james c scott

[Anonymous No.14689118]

>>14684595
The ancients understood that what they knew were eternal truths, and as such, they weren't going anywhere. If oral traditions or written records were lost, it didn't matter, the wise among future generations will simply rediscover them through simple observation and contemplation of nature.

Also, there's a lot of knowledge in your genes, If you learn to access it. So yeah, writing shit only increases the chance that stupid "unworthies" will stumble upon knowledge they're not able to handle.