Debunk Physicalism

[Anonymous No.14681270]

You can't. Everything is physical, your "love", "sadness", "angry", "depression", "anxiety" is all related to the functioning of the body. Nothing exists outside of matter. Thoughts are all determined by the outside, the dilemma of man is believing there is something doing it, and believing that thought is external. Prove me wrong.

[Anonymous No.14681287]

>>14681270
Thought and emotion are forms of observation of brain states. Brain states are influenced by externalities. You could even go so far as to say they're an externality in and of themselves. The thing observing those states, or the act of observation itself, i.e. awareness, consciousness, etc., is clearly immaterial and categorically different from physical material.

[Anonymous No.14681291]

My mmo character thinks the same thing about her world.

[Anonymous No.14681295]

>>14681270
The proof you seek is not within my grasp.
However I ask you;
Is your proof final, or is it merely the most you could muster?
Have you see the entirety or only the piece you can comprehend?

[Anonymous No.14681565]

pathetic

[Anonymous No.14681620]

>>14681565
Yes, yes he is

[Anonymous No.14681631]

>>14681287
>You could even go so far as to say they're an externality in and of themselves
if you were severely brain damaged you could say that

[Anonymous No.14681642]

>>14681270
retards like you are not even worth the time.

[Anonymous No.14681659]

>>14681642
Keep being deluded faggot

[Anonymous No.14681683]

>>14681291
Is she cute?

[Anonymous No.14681684]

>trusting your own sense experience

[Anonymous No.14681705]

>>14681684
>trusting thought

[Anonymous No.14681706]

>>14681270
>Logic is only logical because of matter

Heh, no.

[Anonymous No.14681707]

>>14681270
>Thoughts are all determined by the outside
We couldn't perceive the outside to begin with unless their was knowledge based outside of experience.
> Nothing exists outside of matter.
What do you even mean by this? What do you think light is?

[Anonymous No.14681739]

>>14681270
This is such a terrible way of thinking because we don't even know what matter is. Seriously. Why do electrons exist? What the fuck are quarks and why are they here? And a description of how matter interacts with other matter is not what it really is, in and of itself. All we have is experience, sense-objects. Science is just an extension of our experience, but it doesn't step outside of it.

[Anonymous No.14681756]

>>14681706
There is no logic. No reality either

[Anonymous No.14681763]

>>14681707
>We couldn't perceive the outside to begin with unless their was knowledge based outside of experience.

And the knowledge only exists within the knowledge, it attempts to describe external objects, but it can't

>What do you even mean by this? What do you think light is?

The outside world is all there is

[Anonymous No.14681797]

>>14681763
>And the knowledge only exists within the knowledge, it attempts to describe external objects, but it can't
Cognitive science shits all over this.

[Anonymous No.14681800]

Proove Physicalism
You can't.

It's an open quesiton.

[Anonymous No.14681805]

>>14681797
>science dood!

Elaborate

[Anonymous No.14681814]

>>14681805
>>14681797
Hindus thousands of years ago debunked the

[Anonymous No.14681820]

>>14681814
>>14681797
They debunked subject/object dualism. Fuck your science

[Anonymous No.14681900]

>>14681814
>but muh street shitters!!
Hinduism is the biggest crock of shit ever conceived. Miss me with that shit.
>>14681805
>EXPLAIN THE SCIENCE TO ME
Why bother? You wouldn't believe it anyways.

[Anonymous No.14681911]

>>14681900
>Hinduism is the biggest crock of shit ever conceived. Miss me with that shit

I don't disagree, but subject/object dualism is bullshit. That is a whole other topic though. ..

[Anonymous No.14681958]

>>14681287
All thoughts are chemical and electro-magnetic reactions happening in your brain, and all of them happen thanks to physical matter.

[Anonymous No.14682046]

this thread (and the rest of the board) looks like a lot of
>let me tell you how things work without any evidence or at least reasoning
>why should I believe this?
>lol he doesnt get it

[Anonymous No.14682055]

>>14682046
Damn, that sucks. /lit/ needs to get better

[Anonymous No.14682063]

>>14682046
More like:
>here is an extremely outdated argument that has been answered several thousand times over the course of the last 2000 years, i'm too lazy to even read plato so spoonfeed me why im wrong, but ill disagree with you anyways because im a third world shitskin that just discovered the internet and my entire existence is based on outdated solipsism

[Anonymous No.14682076]

>>14682063
Are you an idealist? Also who here argues for solipsism?

[Anonymous No.14682275]

>>14681270
Qualia.

[Anonymous No.14682500]

>>14681270
This nigga really renamed materialism

[Anonymous No.14682921]

>>14681958
You're talking about causes, not substances. I can grant you that my thoughts are entirely producrd by activities of my body.
This still dorsn't tell me what's being produced. Thoughts, and my general experience, are not by themselves a body, although they're caused by one.

[Anonymous No.14682934]

>>14682921
>This still dorsn't tell me what's being produced.

In Chinese thinking and wanting are synonymous. Thinking is wanting, no matter the thought .

[Anonymous No.14682948]

>>14682934
This is a technicality, the point is that OP has to prove that whatever is produced is a body. Desire isn't a body either

[Debunk Consciousness No.14683037]

>>14681270
You can't. Everything is conscious, your "love", "sadness", "angry", "depression", "anxiety" is all related to the functioning of the Mind. Nothing exists outside of Nous. Matter is all determined by the Designer, the dilemma of man is believing there is something doing it, and believing that matter is external. Prove me wrong.

[Anonymous No.14683045]

>>14683037
Cringe

[Debunk Consciousness No.14683053]

>>14683045
>You can't.

[Anonymous No.14683056]

why is it always anime posters who spout sohpomoric shit with a retard's confidence

[Anonymous No.14683059]

I think the problem is the despiritualization of the physical, and the false dialectics of sophists between consciousness, spirit, identity, and physical reality.

[Anonymous No.14683064]

>>14683037
>Everything is conscious, your "love", "sadness", "angry", "depression", "anxiety" is all related to the functioning of the Mind.

These are interpretations of your how your body is functioning

[Anonymous No.14683069]

>>14683064
>Everything is matter, your "love", "sadness", "angry", "depression", "anxiety" is all related to the functioning of the body.

These are interpretations of your how your consciousness is functioning

[Anonymous No.14683070]

>>14683056
>why is it always anime posters who spout sohpomoric shit with a retard's confidence

[Anonymous No.14683075]

>>14683069
>These are interpretations of your how your consciousness is functioning

"I" am in pain. Is it "I" or the body? You get socked in the face, naturally the thought or some variation of it would occur "I" am hurting

[Anonymous No.14683098]

>>14681705
Retard

[Anonymous No.14683102]

>>14683098
Naive cunt

[Anonymous No.14683111]

>>14683102
>don't trust thoughts bro
>although this , too , is a thought

[Anonymous No.14683116]

>>14683111
Wow youre so wise! Language is limited retard

[Anonymous No.14683121]

>>14683116
>Language is limited
>But here's my axioms on metaphysics using language

[Anonymous No.14683122]

>>14681270
Lmao give me a call when you manifest consciousness in a computer scifag.

[Anonymous No.14683128]

>>14683075
Yes, getting punched would make me feel pain. The almighty Mind has allowed for the existence of matter to allow that lower order of being to take place.

[Anonymous No.14683134]

>>14681270
prove it

/thread

[Anonymous No.14683137]

>>14683121
?????? I still have to use language. I can't shut the computer off. Go back

[Anonymous No.14683146]

>>14683134
Go and try to start a revolution in America given the current material conditions

[Anonymous No.14683164]

>>14681707
Based.

Ever since Kant retards have been trying to understand the world outside of human experience as if that question is actually coherent.

[Anonymous No.14683175]

>>14683137
>Moves the goal post
Haha, child. You got pwned epic style.

[Anonymous No.14683189]

>>14683175
You tried

[Anonymous No.14683198]

>>14683189
You already failed. You said thoughts and language can't be trusted yet you're using thoughts and language to express an idea. Idiot child

[Anonymous No.14683199]

>>14681270

[Anonymous No.14683203]

>>14683199
Unequivocally based

[Anonymous No.14683206]

>>14683198
>You already failed. You said thoughts and language can't be trusted yet you're using thoughts and language to express an idea

Thought can't help you, the nature of thought is purely in its own self interest. Thought can only explain thought, what lies behind thought is what is. And yes I'm using language and thought because they can't be shut down permanently ..

[Anonymous No.14683212]

>>14683206
Nice circular reasoning faggot, go back to elementary. Stop doing drugs

[Anonymous No.14683213]

>>14681270
How do you know that it is the physical which is everything, and not the spiritual?

[Anonymous No.14683215]

>>14683199
And? The emotional romantic shit involved with love is a con produced out of thought, an illusion. I produce the same chemicals eating chocolate

[Anonymous No.14683231]

>>14683213
How would you know it's the spiritual? How could one verify this?

[Anonymous No.14683244]

>>14683215
>Blah blah blah
Take LSD and then study the hindus.

[Anonymous No.14683248]

Read Daniel Stoljar's Physicalism. It details many problems with physicalism.

[Anonymous No.14683250]

>>14681270
Matter can't explain how consciousness came from matter. Everything we know is projected from us, is that solipsism? Almost, but our reality can be inferred to be shared by other humans and other 3D entities in a pretty similar way. But we are very far away from understanding the universe in itself.

The design of the universe is clearly more intelligent than ourselves or our creative capacity. Why would random dead matter be the progenitor of such an eloquent universe? I understand it is very difficult to move away from an anthropocentric God, so consider a force of activity that has a mindful quality like humans. Or, perhaps think of it in terms of psychical density/symmetry if you'd like. Secularism is not a respectable position to hold. It truly isn't.

Can matter "randomly" create life? We are talking about a 2-dimensional reality. Matter is truly 2-dimensional. Does the Miller-Urey experiment of successfully creating amino acids in random environs count for anything? NO, because the probability for amino acids to form into peptide bonds, not to say the least of protein chains, is 1 x 10^60. There are 10^65 atoms in our galaxy.

Crystals form of themselves and represent patterns. Intelligent processes like life are complex information, and science will forever be unable to answer it or defeat the problem of religion.

[Anonymous No.14683394]

>>14683164
Kant did exactly the opposite of what you're claiming, he stated that philosophical theories about noumena were mere speculations with no chance of objectivity (not because they are necessarily wrong, but because we can't know wether these concepts apply to anything at all).

[Anonymous No.14683520]

>muh Spirit is bone
you're late to the game

[Anonymous No.14683598]

>>14681270
Then logic and math do not exist, and you are not describing anything, and "consciousness" doesn't exist, and there is no (you) to make any arguments because it's all just quarks in motion bro, you massive fucking low iq retard.

[Anonymous No.14683603]

>>14683215
>I produce the same chemicals eating chocolate
Name some great art that has been produced by eating chocolate.

[Anonymous No.14683604]

>>14683603
You can get identical joy listening to pigs than classical music

[Anonymous No.14683605]

>>14681756
Ok then shut the fuck up

[Anonymous No.14683607]

>>14683605
That's unnecessary and impossible

[Anonymous No.14683609]

Physicalism is a meaningless term that doesn't mean anything.

[Anonymous No.14683613]

>>14683598
Is there a "you" separate from the body? Are you sure of this?

[Anonymous No.14684501]

>>14681270
Is that a screencap from the Tsukihime anime?

[Anonymous No.14684523]

>>14681270
>broke
Your post
>woke
We cannot perceive anything outside of the human experience
>bespoke
Those chemical processes that are lead to emotions are a part of the divine and the world is simultaneously physical and spiritual

[Anonymous No.14684874]

>>14684501
It's yu yu hakusho, a classic. The starting scene from konosuba where the mc dies is probably a easter egg based on yuyu. That is how glorious yuyu is. Btw the mc became a ghost for a while and the pic is one of the bad guys. Good pic for the thread.

[Anonymous No.14685067]

>>14681642
Give arguments or fuck off

[Anonymous No.14685083]

>>14684523
Or maybe those emotions are merely mechanisms designed to make you socialize and cooperate with your fellow humans to survive and reproduce. Maybe there is nothing spiritual about them and just like every animal that strives to survive and reproduce, we too exhibit behaviour that drive us to survive and reproduce

[Anonymous No.14685104]

Isn't time immaterial?

[Anonymous No.14685117]

>>14681270
>debunk this
>you cant
wat

[Anonymous No.14685119]

>>14681270
Ok NPC

[Anonymous No.14685131]

>>14685083
Or maybe we are imprinted on by higher realities while still preserving the nature of the lower. That would make for an interesting game or development or test of character. Think of it, this world would be the perfect world for divine souls that wanted to get lost. I see you are throughly enjoying the game.

[Anonymous No.14685204]

>>14681707
Not OP, but: Light isn’t “matter” as such because it doesn’t have mass, but light is still physical and is deeply related to matter. It is possible to create matter with light, either through colliding photons in certain environments or though giving mass to light by passing a thin beam of photons through a cloud of supercooled rubidium atoms. The problem is with definitions. Light is energy and energy can create matter. It’s all still a physical process.

[Anonymous No.14685209]

>>14685204
>moves the goalpost from "matter" to "physical"

[Anonymous No.14685232]

>>14684874

anime knowledge > metaphysics

[Anonymous No.14685326]

>>14681705
>not trusting only the scientific method + some minimum common ground philosophy

keep reading those pedo greeks faggots, I'm sure its gonna be pretty useful in the future

[Anonymous No.14685370]

>>14681287
But is the act of observing not also a material formation. maybe it is all that, kind of a bodily regulation system. perhaps our civiliyation has fashioned it to the liberal realism of individuality

[Anonymous No.14685441]

is matter self-moved? if so how can something corporeal be converted to itself?
matter is not what physicalists call matter, they attribute to matter corporeal properties like extension; MATTER IS NOT INTELLIGIBLE; anything that has properties and qualities is so not because of matter itself but because of what is imprinted upon it, that is, its essential side.

[Anonymous No.14685507]

>>14683604
>[I] can get identical joy listening to pigs than classical music

FTFY

[Anonymous No.14685546]

>>14681270
it's a model. that doesn't mean it's wrong. it is as useful as it's ability to predict outcomes. also why the fuck didn't you call it materialism?

[Anonymous No.14685570]

>>14683164
Kant was trying to save retards like OP. Maybe you should actually read him.

[Anonymous No.14685609]

>>14681270
Physicalism is inherently metaphysical, and, as such, it falsely thinks in terms of external relations that which should be thought in terms of internal relations and can only think beings in their being but not being as such

[Anonymous No.14685613]

>>14683199
Came to the thread to make sure this was posted.
Based.

[Anonymous No.14685951]

>>14683199
this does not refute the op

[Anonymous No.14686138]

>>14681270
Shouldn't it be called "materialism"? Also everyone in this thread should read Mitchell Heisman's suicide note starting from "A Laugh With Death".

[Anonymous No.14686263]

>>14685951
Op is your typical bugman r3ddit thought camp. Hurrr we're all just atoms and processes from the brain. The matter is that we do not behave like animals. There is a supra physical compass that supercedes "muh biology" and "muh chemicals". We don't act purely on chemicals because then everyone would be fucking and doing hedonistic things all the time (see where that takes you)

[Anonymous No.14686274]

>>14685326
>muh usefulness

jesus christ

[Anonymous No.14686276]

>>14681291
Your mmo character doesn't think

[Anonymous No.14686347]

>>14686138
What does Heisman talk about? Is it worth reading 1905 pages?

[Anonymous No.14686448]

>>14686263
explain cultural morality or the people that DO thrive on hedonistic shit
we don't behave like animals because we're intelligent enough to develop moral codes (plural)

[Anonymous No.14686452]

>>14686276
This one does, because it's a very advanced mmo. Materalism in a nutshell: Muh polygons r the only reel thing.

[Anonymous No.14686454]

>>14686452
proofs?

[Anonymous No.14686482]

>>14681270
If I gave you a complete physical description of the world, could you infer the way that chocolate tastes to someone eating chocolate?

[Anonymous No.14686501]

>>14686482
do you have a complete physical description of the world?

[Anonymous No.14686514]

>>14681270
If we define the "physical" as whatever entities whose existence we may reasonably postulate on account of our best theoretical models, and we acknowledge that science is not complete, then we must accept that science may one day open the door to entities that differ radically in nature and substance than what we are hitherto accustomed to accepting.

So either "physical" refers to the object of study in contemporary physics, in which case it is false because physics is not complete. Or refers to a future ideal physics, which is meaningless because by that definition anything that becomes the subject matter of science (or physics) will be considered "physical".

[Anonymous No.14686548]

>>14683244
>broooooo just do drugs and worship cows maaaaaaaan
"No!"

[Anonymous No.14686605]

>>14686454
You only accept polygons as proof. The only proof you have is the proof of the obvious. I'm not saying it's bad, I'm just saying it's futile. The only real danger i see for you is that you might not hold virtues and goodness to a high standard due to you existing in the confines of a perception of reality that believes you will have no lasting consequences of your own development past your short human life. You have nothing eternal to latch onto, no real hope for life besides this short mortal vapor. So basically your soul is myopic. But so what, maybe this is the game you desire to play.

[Anonymous No.14686785]

>>14686605
>You
"No"
don't tell me what I accept as proof and just give proofs

[Anonymous No.14686924]

>>14686785
The proof is of the soul and spirit. We are all what we are overcome by or freely accept. What is proof? Death will be a good proof. What proof could i give you? If you misunderstand how certain parts of reality work, then why must i play the game of yours called "give me proof"? I have my whole life as proof, but you can't have mine. Hell I'm not even that concerned over proof, for me it's all or nothing. I can't sell the truth to you, if you want something so bad then find it yourself, I have nothing to prove to anyone. Either reality is good for me or I could care less about anything. My experiences and contemplation are my proofs, even my desires are my proofs. I feel connections in reality that are strange. when i read a book, in spirit i was wrestling with the writer as he created it and he fought back. Every thought i had about it, he was wrestling with them. So yes, i believe there is a world of persons beyond this world. I feel spiritual influences at times, spirits that bless, spirits that torment. But I don't know how i can prove that our world is part of a greater reality.

[Anonymous No.14686953]

>>14686924
>if you want something so bad then find it yourself, I have nothing to prove to anyone.
i'll take that for now
any reads you'd recommend?

[Anonymous No.14687007]

Physicalism always sets you up for mentalist/idealist challenges. Stop talking about this shit and just Be.

[Anonymous No.14687081]

>>14681270
>THE dillema
i was going to list out everything wrong with ur post starting with this but i became overwhelmed

[Anonymous No.14687083]

>>14686953
two books by nicolas berdyaev called:
"Freedom and the spirit" and
"The meaning of the creative act"

Pick something from emanuel swedenborg, he wrote a lot and is repetitive but said some interesting things.

Origen: an exhortation to martydom, prayer and selected works

Pseudo-dionysius the complete works

[Anonymous No.14687100]

>>14686501
I do.

[Anonymous No.14687133]

>>14687100
what is it?

[Anonymous No.14687903]

>>14686448
Morality without objectivity (divine entity) doesn't exist. You can't make laws on behalf of everyone else unless it comes from an objective source.
>Rape is wrong because I said so and other people feel that way
Well some people don't think rape is wrong so your argument is flawed. They have logical "intelligent" reasons to believe what they believe so without objectivity you couldn't condemn them to punishment

[Anonymous No.14687923]

>>14681270
>The word "physicalism" was introduced into philosophy in the 1930s by Otto Neurath and Rudolf Carnap.
>Neurath was born to a Jewish family in Vienna, the son of Wilhelm Neurath (1840–1901), a well-known political economist at the time.

[Anonymous No.14688221]

>>14681270
https://discord.gg/3UH89UV

[Anonymous No.14689610]

>Everything is physical, your "love", "sadness", "angry", "depression", "anxiety" is all related to the functioning of the body.

Related, but not reducible to. Sure pain has a clear evolutional reason (tissue damage -> remove self from cause of damage) but where does the actual sense of pain come from? Surely molecules on their own can't have experiences of pain.

[Anonymous No.14689621]

>>14687133
bend over and ill show you

[Anonymous No.14689657]

>>14683520
I am the bone of my sword

[Anonymous No.14690793]

>>14683199
Not an argument, this is just "I would feel better if what you were saying were not true, so I choose not to believe it". Just like all 'arguments' against materialism and determinism.

[Anonymous No.14690811]

>>14681270
>I only accept physicalist proof
>debunk me

[Anonymous No.14690818]

>>14687923
In other words, a malware belief with the purpose of breaking slaves.

[Anonymous No.14690828]

>>14681270
>time is physical
what

[Anonymous No.14690929]

>>14682921
Saying they're caused is a big stretch. We observe a correlation between brain activity and thought but how the physical mind gives birth to the immaterial thought is not understood. This is the Mind Body problem which no one has solved.

[Anonymous No.14690953]

>>14690929
Unless you try to either be a physicalist, idealist, neutral monist, or pyschophysical parallelist