/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14671175]

Is there a single one of you who is pro trans movement?

If there is, please answer this question: if gender roles are socially constructed and should be deconstructed, isn't literally changing your body to try and correspond to whatever gender you feel you are more suited to completely counterproductive?

Someone please at least play devils advocate here, I have never seen any kind of response to this question and believe me ive looked and asked

[Anonymous No.14671182]

>>14671175

[Anonymous No.14671191]

>>14671175
>f gender roles are socially constructed and should be deconstructed, isn't literally changing your body to try and correspond to whatever gender you feel you are more suited to completely counterproductive?

This is a great point. While gender roles are malleable, changing your literal biology is the result of psychosis/hardcore radical idealism. It's counterintuitive I guess

[Anonymous No.14671198]

>>14671191
>counterintuitive

My bad, counterproductive*

[Anonymous No.14671199]

Trans people attempts to embody their ideal gendered form always results in failure. They are, in short, incredibly human.

[Anonymous No.14671200]

>>14671175
Imagine being a neovag surgeon

[Anonymous No.14671201]

>>14671191
no god damnit argue with me

[Anonymous No.14671204]

>>14671182
The high-speed 4k HD porn, sissy hypno, and all the other things emasculating men is contributing to this. Many straight dudes turned trans due to the things I listed

[Anonymous No.14671208]

>>14671175
Consider the following: no one but a small amount of radical feminists want to do away with gender altogether

[Anonymous No.14671210]

>>14671199
of course, im not disputing their humanity. Trans people, real trans people, especially before it became trendy, are brave as fuck. They have every right to do whatever with their own body. the movement is what i have a problem with

[Anonymous No.14671212]

>>14671204
Sugar too, monocrops generally, hard to imagine much food isn't laced with China-tier mystery chemistry

[Anonymous No.14671214]

>>14671201
I agree with you. I don't know what else to say. I will say this though, that trans people are not a monolith from what I've seen on the internet. They are a group that's impossible to dissect, they are ideological all over the place, some are Fascist, Ancoms, Communists etc. Maybe we should talk about why they are even important/shilled in the media so much?

[Anonymous No.14671215]

>>14671175
I don't hate trans people and acknowledge that gender dysphoria is a thing, but I can't understand them, and since I'm just starting out on seriously reading psychology, my lack of tools will still continue for a long time

[Anonymous No.14671218]

>>14671208
not true dude. but even if it were, the issue is not wanting to do away with gender. Its wanting to do away with socially dictated gender roles and norms, an end to which transitioning is directly contradictory

[Anonymous No.14671224]

>>14671214
thats a good point. trans people themselves are just people. But the trans movement is largely made up of people who adopt the labels for their trendiness, and to make them part of an "oppressed class". Usually trans advocates are white, well-off college students who are trying to escape white/class guilt by identifying with an oppressed group, but many only in label in dress, who dont really suffer from gender dysphoria

[Anonymous No.14671225]

>>14671175
Kinda Devil's advocate here:
No it's not counterproductive, because it's making people aware of the malleable and arbitrary nature of gender, in opposition to it being rigid - you have to break down essentialism before you break down gender itself. Kind of like how people argue you need to move through socialism before you get to stateless communism, the current times call for a re-thinking of gender that is less revolutionary, at least for now.

[Anonymous No.14671234]

>>14671224
>Usually trans advocates are white, well-off college students who are trying to escape white/class guilt by identifying with an oppressed group, but many only in label in dress, who dont really suffer from gender dysphoria

This. They are overly socialized and have taken ideology too seriously

[Anonymous No.14671242]

>>14671225
>you have to break down essentialism before you break down gender itself.

So break down masculinity?. That's already happening

[Anonymous No.14671253]

Not lit, despite butters's condition. You know there's a board dedicated to topics like this, right?

[Anonymous No.14671264]

>>14671242
Essentially trans-activists are piggybacking on the back of activism for women. It's easier to get recognition by saying "Oh, yeah we're also a part of that" than pretending they aren't feminists at all.
>>14671253
/lgbt/ is full of infighting, degenerate fetishists and are unable to seriously debate anything.

[Anonymous No.14671281]

>>14671225
good shit. thanks.
To this i'd say there's a difference between effect and ideology. My criticism is of the ideology of the trans movement, that its contradictory. For many trans people, transitioning is obviously not counterproductive if it alleviates their suffering. I mean that the belief system in question seems internally inconsistent.
But to entertain whether in effect, as opposed to in theory, it is productive or counterproductive to its stated goals i'd say that the movement is not succeeding in making people aware of the arbitrary nature of gender. Those who would be receptive to that already believe it, and those who wouldn't are alienated by the authoritarian, angry rhetoric and respond in kind

[Anonymous No.14671286]

Transhumanism obviously, also techno-gnosticism

[Anonymous No.14671291]

why would it be counterproductive? brainlet here but have an intuitive sense that trans is deeply wrong while believing that gender roles are not rigid.

[Anonymous No.14671292]

>>14671253
This is a philosophical question. It's about whether an argument is true or not. Sure its not lit, but neither are half the threads posted here every day by that criteria. Only difference is a hot button issue.

[Anonymous No.14671295]

>>14671291
Because if sex should have nothing to do with identity, changing your sex because of your identity is saying to the world that a certain identity cannot coexist with a certain sex

[Anonymous No.14671307]

>>14671281
>Those who would be receptive to that already believe it, and those who wouldn't are alienated by the authoritarian, angry rhetoric and respond in kind
I would say that the fact that trans-positive rhetoric is being picked up by the elites in marketing, etc. is evidence for the contrary. If it sells it "works" under liberalism. There will always be people that are against something, but I think people are becoming more accepting of it all overall - not that I have any data on that or anything.

[Anonymous No.14671312]

I want to point out that I jack off to sissy shit, cuckold shit, all types of femdom shit and I have no problem doing so while being male. Ive never felt female at all. To me the aforementioned fetishes are obvious manifestations of self hatred etc. But one might say i've been led to believe so by a medicalized, hyper rational dominant ideology

[Anonymous No.14671331]

>>14671295

I see, thanks that makes sense. I kind of agree with you and I think you articulated what I felt pretty well.

I also feel that trans people often end up embodying a stereotype of what they think the opposite gender is, or a huge caricature rather than the genuine thing.

[Anonymous No.14671332]

>>14671312
Part of the appeal of those things is that you are a male, but an "inferior", submissive one. The effeminisation of men is happening alongside MtF transgenderism, but with the former happening much faster.

[Anonymous No.14671345]

>>14671307
true. but i think that even as the ideology promotes gender malleability, its internal contradiction surfaces in effect too. Why are elites promoting defying gender roles, and simultaneously promoting or at least condoning hormone blockers for people under 18? If a kid plays with dolls and says they feel like a girl, you either say "there's no such thing as to feel like a girl" or you give them hormone blockers. And that the elites follow suit w the academics I think is not so much a reflection of public opinion but more a survival tactic, given the viciousness and demonstrable power of these movements. imo, most people genuinely dont give a shit. but the people who care are polarized

[Anonymous No.14671348]

>>14671332
And ASMR. MKuktra stuff, some anon on /x/ while ago was going in on explaining this. Apparently there's this hypnosis called Bambi sleep that's so powerful it's ruined many mens lives. There's a subr*ddit for guys trying to get help from it. It tries to turn hetero guys into trans and in a very Mkultra way. Way more powerful than sissy hypno.

[Anonymous No.14671352]

>>14671332
Why do you think that is? Not rhetorical. I've definitely noticed the trend.

[Anonymous No.14671391]

>>14671175
Honestly yeah, but not why you might think. One of my best friends growing up suffered from severe gender dysphoria, and he (she now) will be the first person to tell you that nobody wants to go through that. If you’re close friends with a trans person they’ll actually talk about how much it sucks. You have a shitload of panic attacks, you feel awful in your own body physically and can experience withdrawal-like symptoms when it gets bad enough, and if being more feminine is what triggers some screwed up programming in the trans brain to relax and feel stable then yeah, they’re gonna do whatever it takes to feel okay. The biggest redpill on trans people is understanding that they all fucking hate it too, and most of them recognize it as a mental illness they’re hardwired for from birth, and they just want to function comfortably. I think they deserve to function and live their lives, so long as they aren’t bothering anyone else. That seems reasonable. Wanting equal rights is fine, but enforcing them is where it gets tricky. Should we be force-feeding teenagers hormones? Fuck no, some lines should obvynit be crossed.

Drag queens can all burn on a giant pile of sticks though.

[Anonymous No.14671409]

>>14671332
See that's the fucking thing with effeminisation, it has at its heart a good idea (the examination and de-rigidisation of the male gender role) but it comes at the expense and parody of female gender roles. Feminists have been trying to define what 'woman' means for a very long time now and right when it seemed that everyone was on board with the way things were going the trans movement comes along and says, 'woman means what men want women to be, based on fictional women.'

And men win again! No one is taking our bathrooms, no one is raping us, no one is getting their dicks out in polite company, no one is telling gay dudes they are hateful for not fucking trans men. Do you know how hollow victory feels when it's just piled, day after day, into your lap? I want to share muh privileges with everyone, not get more and more exclusive muh privileges. By engaging in the worst stereotypes of toxic femininity Mean Girls bullshit with the competitive mindset of men, men have won. I don't think women fight like we do and now they're letting men in the ring and getting wasted.

[Anonymous No.14671411]

>>14671345
Well, yeah, you're right - it's hard to stay Devil's advocate for too long. I don't think what intersectionalists want will come to fruition, although I do think their analysis is valuable; we wait for a fourth, technological wave of feminism, or change course altogether.
I will say, though, that our system is doing perfectly fine through many such contradictions, you could even say they bolster liberalism further - this is the essence of what calls itself democracy today, the left-right divide, etc.
>>14671348
I try not to be too conspiratorial, but there's definitely something to that. JOI stuff, too, probably - and even pornography in general; sexuality is breaking away from the intimate rapidly.
>>14671352
For one, you can sell two different fetishes, one with the person as a man, another as a woman.
Also, the market will always set up effective steps along the path to whatever it wants to achieve. Before you get people into autogynephilic porn, you must first develop a culture around porn in general, then around a "feminine" porn.

[Anonymous No.14671413]

>>14671391
This is exactly my stance. acceptance has gone so far as to cross over into normalization and even encouragement

[Anonymous No.14671417]

>>14671409
die fucking TERF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! whole family die!!!!!

[Anonymous No.14671420]

>ctrl+f 'cis'
>0 results

I love you guys

[Anonymous No.14671423]

>>14671411
honestly fuck porn, fuck porn with every fiber of my being. its god damn everywhere.

[Anonymous No.14671426]

>>14671420
i love you too

[Anonymous No.14671431]

>Women complain for decades about male portrayals of stereotypical females in media
>Men decided to portray stereotypical women IRL
>Everything is fine

[Anonymous No.14671438]

>>14671409
Yes, I'd say it's safer to say that patriarchy is evolving, not going away. Who has it easier, trans-men, or trans-women?
Everyone loses.

[Anonymous No.14671457]

>>14671438
yeah i find it wicked funny that mtf people are treated as not only equal to real women, but more oppressed, and given way way more attention than ftm and females
and when feminists point out the issue, fucking DIE TERF

[Anonymous No.14671458]

New question based on recent developments:

Is trans movement anti-feminist? pro patriarchal?

[Anonymous No.14671466]

>>14671208
Literally in a presidential debate https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIoLBlJF_Pw

[Anonymous No.14671474]

>>14671458
It's really hard for me to not see it as just an extension of patriarchal territory. Male ideas in female spaces.
To even engage in debate on this matter one must take at least the first step and at least acknowledge that trans women are women, which means from that point on you essentially have to argue against that idea to argue your own. To the very people who are being harmed by the patriarchy! It's genius! Feminism has become our propaganda wing.

[Anonymous No.14671492]

>>14671458
It's feminist in the sense that it's emasculating men into feminine women. The argument of it being patriarchal assumes that masculinity/femininity exists as an essential property that carries over post-transition over being obliterated and replaced completely.

[Anonymous No.14671493]

>>14671458
Feminism has gone through at least three major incarnations that have significantly altered its definition, so that's hard to say.
As for patriarchy, what was said in >>14671474 is the case, but additionally I think it's hard to deny the overall trend of femininsation of things; this must mean something. A feminine patriarchy, if there can even exist such a concept? It's very odd.

[Anonymous No.14671498]

>>14671175
You're conflating a couple of different things here. There is post-structuralist feminism, queer theory, etc. which is a philosophical critique of gender and sexuality, and there are transgender people who desire not to be marginalized based on their gender identity, who are not necessarily fluent in or actively choosing to participate in this philosophical discourse.
>if gender roles are socially constructed and should be deconstructed, isn't literally changing your body to try and correspond to whatever gender you feel you are more suited to completely counterproductive?
I sort of agree with this, although there's something to be said for doing this to undermine the status quo as a political act. Not trying to imply that's why individuals on the whole are choosing to, by the way.
If you are interested in the theory, my suggestion would be to read History of Sexuality pt. 1 by Foucault and Gender Trouble by Judith butler. It's a bit complicated to put the affective labor on others to explain this to you (sorry) and it's best to get it from the "horse's mouth" as it were. If you are concerned about trans people and their lifestyle choices, my advice would be to just be cool and let them have the freedom do as they please. The percentage of people who are trans is so miniscule it doesn't really matter or affect you in any substantial way. Based on the pic of JBP I assume you are probably a libertarian or something so this registers ideologically.

[Anonymous No.14671505]

>>14671175
trans people
1) are physically disgusting
2) insidiously attempt to convince vulnerable people to also become trannies (exposure is their primary means of spreading)
3) act repulsively in general, they're extremely unlikable
if something looks like garbage and acts like garbage it's not unreasonable to treat it as garbage

[Anonymous No.14671509]

I find my problem with trannyism is intertwined with my problem with poststructualism and the social sciences as a field. The concept that there is some vagueness in some aspects of sex is not an issue, my problem is that a lot of the rhetoric around it is largely that of an intentional antithesis. Most of the aforementioned above fields come in with the mindset that there is a problem to be solved, a model that must be completed, instead of simply dictating causality, a narrative means of explaination. As such, a lot of these types have a dislike for general terms which they see as propping up a falicious narrative, having specific cultural nuances to them, and want to set up something more precise (imo general terms are good since they allow for abstraction within a gestalt qualitative topic, an example would be the term “the west” for the general socio-politico-cultural-geographic sphere of “europeanness”). Personally, I’d say the most insidious narrative is a perpose built one that is specifically focused on deconstructing the specific context that the post structuralist is galvanized against (usual Eurocentricism).

It’s an attack on generality to uplift particulars.

I like to use the example of a sword and a knife. There is no exact definition for either, sometimes it’s bladed sometimes pointed, sometimes neither and sometimes both. The exact point of distinction between the two is indistinct, but we can generally tell what is a knife and what is a sword. And for government work, aka the general populous, this distinction works completely fine. Of course, in more academic use it would probably be better to use a typology, but do you really expect someone to say “hand me that type 15c tool”, of course not. There is a place for particulars and a place for generalities. And trying to replace generalities with particulars may be more precise, but will usually become less accurate to authenticity of quality. Don’t be upset if someone calls your machete a big knife.

[Anonymous No.14671514]

>>14671493
>A feminine patriarchy
This sounds like chest-beating bullshit, but men by and large DID create the societies we live in, and defined the boundaries within which women have been permitted to move, and I think any societal change will happen WITHIN that society and not fundamentally change it. The only allowed path for feminism is patriarchal feminism, and the most radical change would essentially be feminised patriarchy. Which is why it's so harmful to men to not be allowed parallel discussion of male issues- we are contorting to allow feminism into our system when we could be growing it outwards and upwards.
I really feel like women are losing a lot by capitulating to an existing non-female system and I think they are losing a lot by allowing men into their system.

[Anonymous No.14671519]

>>14671175

How valuable do you honestly think it would it be for anyone to deconstruct to a genderless vessel and spend the rest of your life fighting decades of social gender conditioning and ones own biological drives (wether you think they are a valid source of identity or not) in a society that still values gender.

If you wanted the best life for yourself, wouldn't acknowledging gender is dumb and still going with what your monkey brain instincts want at least put you in the bracket everyone else is in?

Are you hetero-normative? Are you working towards deconstructing your gender currently, or is it more hassle than its currently worth?

[Anonymous No.14671526]

>>14671509
Why do you think that humans are to be treated the same as tools ?

[Anonymous No.14671527]

>>14671519
Nice thought experiment where everyone lives on a flat grey plane with no aspirations within society m8

[Anonymous No.14671533]

>>14671527

I think you've misunderstood. Not being in that flat grey plane currently is exactly why you wouldn't deconstruct...

[Anonymous No.14671534]

>>14671175
>Is there a single one of you who is pro trans movement?
I don't think anyone outside of Commie LARPers and /lgbt/ is pro-tranny anon.

I'd say go to reddit, but they'd probably ban you for even asking the question, based on their reputation for facilitating discussion.

Just hope for some random to come in from the frontpage to answer your question like I did properly, I guess.

[Anonymous No.14671539]

>>14671514
You seem to fundamentally misunderstand queer theory if you think of it as "allowing men into their system" and not "including more women"

[Anonymous No.14671554]

>>14671498
I have no problem with trans people whatsoever. who im talking about are the twitter activists i'm surrounded by at uni of whom 80% are white, upper middle class, non trans or gender non-conforming only in label or dress. It seems that the most vocal people don't have their facts straight, and seem not to have thought any of this through for themselves. The pic in the op was totally random

[Anonymous No.14671557]

>>14671498
I think the problem is though that it appears that what is argued for in queer theory doesn't align with trans-activism despite there existing more of an overlap between the two groups that you mentioned than there is between perhaps many others of significance. Although most LGBT folk are ignorant of theory, those who are interested are more likely to read the likes of Butler than many others, and yet often fail to live up to the praxis presented in this truly radical and honest theory; theory is fashionable, an excuse, not a starting point, for most queer people. Not that this is unique to queer ideology in particular, but still.

[Anonymous No.14671570]

>>14671526
The example of a tool was illustrative. I could have again used “the west”, “the poor”, or any other qualitative aspect (like gender) as an example to illustrate my point.

[Anonymous No.14671585]

>>14671554

The Uni I'm at isn't anywhere close to the leftist house fire the right claims they are, and my city is liberal. Twitter isn't real life.

[Anonymous No.14671590]

>>14671409
> good idea (the examination and de-rigidisation of the male gender role)
When has the rigidity of the male gender-role ever been a problem? The "male gender-role" has always been flexible. Men throughout history have been able to indulge in more or less any behaviour they want to outside of homosexuality (which very much glorifies the male gender, not really the effeminate).
Some examples of why "derigidisation" is at all necessary and what the desired end results would ideally be would be appreciated.

[Anonymous No.14671603]

>>14671570
>>14671570
But you use it to claim that since it doesn't matter much how you reference different tools that it is equally unimportant when referencing someone's gender, as if it were a property like hair color. Gender, as queer theorists understand it, is more of a personalized experience that can become very nebulous and detached completely from simple observable characteristics like soft skin being feminine or a strong jawline being masculine. It is for this reason that a lot of people freak out over misgendering, because it is as if you are denying them of their existence completely.

[Anonymous No.14671606]

>>14671514
>and defined the boundaries within which women have been permitted to move
kinda like how bees defined the boundaries within which flowers were allowed to evolve

[Anonymous No.14671608]

>>14671585
Mine is. You can’t go through a building without some privilege guilt trip either posted or talked about by people who don’t even have a understanding of the critical theory they parrot. It wouldn’t be some much of a problem if they understood their talking points, but they just pay lip service to it with snide satisfaction. The thing is, I’m pretty ok with the department heads that expose the theory, but all the downstream rhetoric is sickeningly self congratulatory.

[Anonymous No.14671609]

>>14671539
Including more women, yes, but these women are of a certain kind. If you don't want to use male language when referring to trans-women, fine, but there's no denying that there are differences between them and cis-women, differences that, I would say, are underplayed by proponents of feminist ideology, for the sake of not offending, etc.
>>14671585
Twitter ideology is just one layer more radical deeper than academia. The trend of progressivism is undeniable, surely you'd agree?

[Simon Magus !!B6w9tJAyfF8 No.14671615]

Trans politics confuse me, namely in terms of how they refuse to conflate gender and sex on one hand but also try to use the issue of intersexuality as a battering ram of sorts to try and force their notions of non-binary gender down our throats. The latter seems to essentially suggest the opposite of the former and yet I've seen the same tranny occupying both positions simultaneously.

Also from what I've seen online the term TERF is literally just a way of trying to shut up actual women who challenge any views held by trannies and their supporters. Pretty troubling

[Anonymous No.14671624]

>>14671175
think of gender from a whole is greater than the sum of the parts perspective. the higher the level of the parts, the higher the value of the greater whole. the benefits of gender unification as a whole is equivalent to a step forward in evolution. terms like social construction, actions like genital removal, kicking up a stink over trans rights are all early, clumsy, flailing attempts to move toward gender unification without the tools or wisdom to pull it off.

[Anonymous No.14671647]

>>14671348
>Bambi Sleep
I looked into it before. Basically, it creates a bimbo tulpa named Bambi who has literally retardation level IQ that's obsessed with sex and looking pretty. There are horror stories where shit got too real for some listeners and Bambi took over completely. Very spooky shit.

[Anonymous No.14671654]

>>14671603
I understand that, but again, that’s giving notice to the contextual particulars. Although that machete bit on the end was peripheral to the point of my argument and I probably should have left it out. Though I believe the point still holds that gender being a particular instead of a generality is destructive and the wordchoice in itself is what causes a lot of hysteria rather than the higher, again gestalt concept. I use that gestalt word specifically because it can have a nuanced nature to it. I do not think queer identity gets past weitgenstien. “The west” does not have clear observable characteristics as well. The nebulousness is largely a self imposed structure that seems to be an active revolt against convention instead of an interpretation of it.

[Anonymous No.14671655]

>>14671609
It is not a language issue, it is ontological. If they say they are women, they are women through and through, not just by reference of name, but as a being completely. You also seem to assume that ciswomen express rigid forms of "pure femininity" as if they can't be off the mark and still identify as women (see butch lesbians, tomboys, etc.)

[Anonymous No.14671658]

>>14671590
If I am understanding your idea correctly, I would say the difference is that before, developments in masculinity did little to topple essentialism, maybe owing to the fact that it happened so slowly. Today, we see something quite different in the overlap between the communities of those arguing for gender abolitionism, and those arguing for pro-feminine ideology of various kinds; it seems to suggest that there is an unwilling alliance between the two - every new trans-man pushes the narrative towards the feminine, paradoxically. Tangentially, homosexuality can be seen as neutral, with the extreme examples being that it would only be considered feminine if you are the submissive one in the act.

[Anonymous No.14671664]

>>14671590
>Some examples of why "derigidisation" is at all necessary
So the population can be more effectively turned into nigger cattle.

[Anonymous No.14671675]

>>14671655
They are a woman in the sense of self-reference/identity, yes, of course. But they are not a woman in other senses. Words can have multiple meanings, this is the whole problem I think many of us are talking around in this thread; how can there exist unironic agender lesbians, you know?

[Anonymous No.14671787]

>>14671215
You don’t need to be a scientist to recognize madness. All the literature on trannyism speculates it’s a sex thing whether to attract gay sex or to be turned on by playing with their own body as the opposite gender. In any event it doesn’t take a genius to realize its a sociological phenomenon. As a thought experiment try to imagine a ferrel child cutting their dick off or trying to fake tits or something. It’d only happen if they were emulating some female. Whatever is causing it this is clearly an emulation of the opposite sex not an expression of some inner gender.

[Anonymous No.14671799]

>>14671175
I'm pro trans if it means I can advance my agrarian political agenda? I dunno, as long as I don't have to cough up the money for it I don't care what people do to their bits

[Anonymous No.14671818]

>>14671175
I'm pro the right of everyone to do whatever the fuck they want to do with their own bodies. I'm not interested in their motivations or beliefs regarding gender roles.

More importantly, this is not /lit/. Go ask /lgbt/ or something.

[Anonymous No.14671820]

>>14671175
The trans phenomena, like most dissident politics, is an attempt at reifying platonic forms in an era where nominalism is the dominant ideology coupled to a Jacobin reign of terror under the guise of liberalism that has to embrace victimhood no matter how ridiculous in order to avoid the house of cards collapsing.

[Anonymous No.14671827]

>>14671409
I’ve noticed that transwomen tend to adopt stereotypical images of women rather than forging their own identities free of gendered terminology. I often wonder if a lot of trans people just reinforce gender stereotypes. I think there are more transwomen who place femininity on a pedestal than they’d care to admit.

[Anonymous No.14671832]

>>14671799
if you live in a country with socialized healthcare (the US seems relatively safe for now but all you'd need is 1 democrat president) you WILL be paying for mr. tranny to cut his dick off

[Anonymous No.14671833]

>>14671827
The market value of the female has dropped from somewhere around $2M to approximately $0 in the last 100 years and will go sharply negative in the near future. It's an attempted reification, a mourning process, for something that we know is lost but are not yet prepared to let go.

[Anonymous No.14671835]

>Someone please at least play devils advocate here
Something something victims of reality

[Anonymous No.14671843]

It's unfortunate that this is no longer recognized as a mental illness. They even go as far as recommending that they mutilate themselves. The psychologists clearly don't have the best interest of the patient in mind.
Got an invite to syz btw?

[Anonymous No.14671852]

>>14671466
>whoa-ho he mentioned the obscure fringe minority
>this guy clearly cares about progressive values, whatever those are
The gap between me and the average dumbass seems to be growing at an astonishing rate. How is this guy allowed to get this far in life?

[Anonymous No.14671860]

>>14671175
Consensus on this subject is difficult to achieve, even within the pro-trans movement there isn't agreement on where to draw the line between sex and gender. Not every trans activist believes that "gender should be deconstructed" either, there's a lot of conflict between trans women and men who fully transition (who are essentially just reinforcing gender roles) and those who, say, just take the hormone treatments without surgery.

The easiest way to think about it is this– your physiology functions as a performative token for your gender, in the same way that makeup, gesture, vocal range, etc. are "physical" artefacts that have discursive and gendered implications. So changing your sex should be considered no different than eyeliner or lip fillers– It's simply another performative outlet with which to express your gender.

[Anonymous No.14671872]

>>14671818
>negative freedom
cringe

[Anonymous No.14671881]

>>14671860
*puts a gun in your cis scum mouth* >The easiest way to think about it is like this,

[Anonymous No.14671894]

>>14671832
Not if we redistribute the land and replace all the welfare with farming subsidies

[Anonymous No.14671946]

>>14671894
yeah I suppose you've got a point there

[Anonymous No.14671965]

>>14671833
In what way has the market value dropped? Autogynephila is more visible than ever, women are still the only gender that can bear children and the incel movement is a product of an unhealthy obsession with women.

[Anonymous No.14671983]

>>14671965
1920 - you have to get married and commit 80%+ of your lifetime earnings to the spending habits of a woman

2020 - download an app for free and send a few "netflix and chill?" messages, pussy shows up and puts out for free. Worst case scenario you pay anywhere from $10 for a third world ho to a few hundred for western prostitute

>women are still the only gender that can bear children and the

Artificial wombs already work. We grow animals in them already. The technological depreciation of woman has arrived, you are just in the grey zone of normalization.

>incel movement is a product of an unhealthy obsession with women

There really is no such thing as an incel (prostitutes are cheap and abundant) but insofar as there are "male" emcels (that want "sex as love") we're really just dealing with a sort of tranny, some weird attempt at reification of the expiring female gender.

[cunt No.14672014]

>>14671175
>Is there a single one of you who is pro trans movement?
yes
>If there is, please answer this question: if gender roles are socially constructed and should be deconstructed, isn't literally changing your body to try and correspond to whatever gender you feel you are more suited to completely counterproductive?
Its about people being free to dress and act the way they want. What we call man and women are the broad genera of social appearance. But there are many trans people now that are nether man or women. I guess the difference you might be looking for is transgender vs transsexual. Changing how one is seen (as man, women, or other) vs changing as much as possible ones biology (male or female).

[Anonymous No.14672072]

>>14671175
as far as I understand it (and I don't care very much about this shit so I never invested much time on it and may be wrong):
"gender roles as a social construct" is fundamentally a radical feminist argument, and they aren't all that ok whit trans.
The two points don't work out perfectly because they were made by people on opposite sides of the debate. If many people today are for both, there are roughly two paths:
1. if someone thinks that gender is largely a social construct, but their lives don't revolve uniquely around this idea, it's possible to reasonably see transition as a pragmatic solution on a world in which gender roles still exist.
2. on the other hand, you have to remember that most people don't think things trough and aren't cohesive with their arguments.

[Anonymous No.14672077]

>>14671983
>pussy shows up and puts out for free

[Anonymous No.14672083]

>>14671983
>pussy shows up and puts out for fre

[Anonymous No.14672155]

>>14671983
I’d disagree that incels are a kind of tranny if that’s what you’re driving at.

Self-identified incel often fetishise masculinity and the idea of being masculine while they obsess over women due to the fact that they want to claim women as trophies for the purposes of stroking their own ego. In other words, the incel obsession with women is patriarchal in nature. MtF trannies are different because they fetishise femininity and wish to embody that stereotypical idea of femininity, with many of them either despising masculinity or valuing it only so they can validate their own status as a woman by getting fucked by a man.

I don’t think the social value of the female sex is going anywhere any time soon. In fact, given that men are beginning to embody more stereotypically feminine traits at a rate faster than women are embodying masculine traits, I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s actually more likely for the masculine to become irrelevant in future.

[Anonymous No.14672387]

>>14671175
I'd say I'm pro-trans not out of actual genuine empathy, but due to the realization of personal gain from this. I have always been extremely infatuated with masculine, pro-active, go-getter kinds of women. Due to this current generation of women largely being so hyper-feminized by social media and peer pressure, they basically appear to be little more than plastic blow-up dolls with limited consciousness. Even women that do not objectify themselves to such a degree end up demanding astronomical standards from men, and the popularity of intersex friendships can cause quite a bit of confusion in the minds of some men. It depresses me that both the vast majority of biological women as well as trans women have the same level of dignity or self-awareness as a playboy caricature from the 1960s.
My only access in these troubling times to an individual with a vagina, enough humility to be willing to date a lower-than average male like me, and a pro-active, classical mindset is a transman.
So I guess I'm pro transmen but anti trannies.

[Anonymous No.14672416]

>>14671182
The industrial revolution and its consequences has been a disaster for the human race. You guys are complaining about the symptoms, the real cause is the cancer of technology.

[Anonymous No.14672428]

>>14672077
>>14672083
Who care about promiscuous "women" and pre-marital sex though? Casual hookups are just as bad as porn, and you risk disease. Just find yourself a good wife.

[Anonymous No.14672457]

>>14671514
Lol women btfo

[Anonymous No.14672481]

>>14672416
THE BOOMER GENERATION

CREDO CREDO CREDO

[Anonymous No.14672487]

>queer theory

[Anonymous No.14672534]

What you need to understand about the tranny epidemic is that the entire phenomenon is now completely absorbed into capital. At this point, transgenderism is basically just an internet subculture rooted in an inferiority complex caused by capitalist nihilism.

There are common themes that you notice with all the transgenders that have popped up everywhere in the past 5 years:
>Most are white and middle class
>Most of them are utterly obsessed with the internet and mass media consumption
>They are commonly found in fandoms and meme communities (anime, pornography)
>The media and the elites are pushing it hard, drag queens in particular
>Most of them are male to female

What’s happening here isn’t that these people actually suffer from gender dysphoria or whatever. The problem is that we are so oppressed by isolation and spiritual sickness in late capitalism that these people have absolutely no discernible identities for themselves. Transgenderism is like one giant cope and a desperate attempt to either find meaning in adopting another gender identity or leftists taking the identity to have some sort of oppression in their lives (this explains why most are white). This is a unique phenomenon that exploded in the 2010s, not a natural progression throughout history. None of this shit is sustainable because they’re all products of the system.

[Anonymous No.14672586]

>>14672534
Trannies predate the neoliberal boom. Trans culture is a product of capitalism, but not the condition itself.