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14610800 No.14610800 [Reply] [Original]

Nietzsche once claimed that when it comes to philosophical talent, India is first, and England is last (worst). He also claimed that Europe has not yet reached the level of spirituality that India had reached thousands of years ago.

/lit/ likes to talk about the Bible a lot, it's become almost a meme, we all seem to agree Bible is a source of wisdom.

But comparing the ancient Indian Indo-European civilization with the Jewish one, to see the spiritual level they were at.

Deuteronomy was written in 7th century BC (according to scholars). It has stuff like:

>You may eat any animal that has a split hoof divided in two and that chews the cud. However, of those that chew the cud or that have a split hoof completely divided you may not eat the camel, the rabbit, or the coney.

A veritable pearl of wisdom.

TWO CENTURIES before that in the 9th century BC, the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad had already been composed. Sample from the text:

>"That (Brahman) is infinite, and this (universe) is infinite. the infinite proceeds from the infinite.
>(Then) taking the infinitude of the infinite (universe), it remains as the infinite (Brahman) alone."

One text deals with stuff like what you can eat and where you can put your penis, the absolute retardation probably due to excessive exposure to sun of the desert man can be felt on every page of the Bible.

On the other hand, the Indian text of the time show a philosophical depth of a Kant or a Hegel. Schopenhauer said that the re-discovery of the Upanishads by Europe is comparable to the rediscovery of ancient Greek materials in the Renaissance. He said it's by far the most profound material he's ever read.

Question: Why do we still waste so much time & energy with Desert Trilogy when our own, Indo-European heritage, is so much more richer and profound?

>> No.14610811

>>14610800
It seems you have a point, anon. Would you be kind enough to tell me from whence I may initiate myself into the pearl of wisdom of the Indians?

>> No.14610818

>>14610800
>He also claimed that Europe has not yet reached the level of spirituality that India had reached thousands of years ago.
I need a direct quote anon

>> No.14610901

>>14610811
Begin here anon

https://estudantedavedanta.net/Eight-Upanisads-Vol-1.pdf
https://estudantedavedanta.net/Eight-Upanisads-vol2.pdf

>> No.14610903

>>14610811
>>14610901
epic falseflag

>> No.14610916

>>14610901
Thank you, anon. I shall begin immediately.

>> No.14610934
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14610934

>>14610800
>sides with Thrasymachus
>doesn't read Hobbes
Just how retarded was he?

>> No.14610940
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14610940

>I am Ascended

>> No.14611005
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14611005

>>14610800

>> No.14611459
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14611459

Daily reminder that Shankara is widely regarded by ALL SCHOLARS and MOST HINDUS, including MOST ADVAITA FOLLOWERS, to be a cryptobuddhist.

>> No.14611477
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14611477

Daily reminder that only wikipedia advaitafags try to prove the presence of Advaita doctrines in the earliest Upanishads. The vast majority of Hindus laugh at these sophistries, and well-educated Advaitins don't even do it, because it's on the level of a Mormon trying to prove that Mormonism was always in the Bible.

>> No.14611642

>>14610934
>t.Buttmad A*gloid

>> No.14611663

>>14611477
More like - Christians trying to prove that Christ was foretold in the Old Testament. It is a valid, widespread philosophical interpretation, whether /lit/ likes it or not.

>> No.14611814

It doesn't matter, if Hindus present a false religion, instead of a spirituality that flows from truth. Anyone who seeks after spirituality for a semblance of feeling awakened, rather than being awakened by the truth, does so vainly.

>> No.14611840

Why is /lit/ obsessed with hinduism, buddhism and gnositicism.

>> No.14611868
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14611868

>>14610800

>> No.14612007
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14612007

>>14611663
>whether /lit/ likes it or not.
It's literally the same autist posting his anti-advaita pastas in every single thread, nobody else cares enough to do it but him. He always has this very bitter and unhinged writing style, just look at how he capitalizes his words. He really went off the deep end ever since people started posting the BTFOing of Nagarjuna by Robinson (pic related). He denies that he is a Buddhist but spends all his time shilling it and will flip out if you say anything bad about it.

>> No.14612069
File: 14 KB, 692x208, 1579638673214.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14612069

>>14611663
More like Druze trying to claim that their religion was foretold the OT. They are a much tinier minority. Most advaita followers are westernized or emigrants, because they are neovedantists (heavily influenced by theosophy).

>>14612007
>everyone who disagrees with me is the same person
Ok schizo.

>> No.14612480
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14612480

>>14612069
>They are a much tinier minority.
Do you have any sources for that or are you just making it up? Because every source and website I read generally describes the Advaita-based Smarta tradition as one of the 4 major denominations of Hinduism along with Vaishnavism, Shaivism and Shaktism

>> No.14612513

i got the Upanishads but so far its all shit like "blah blah is the feet of blah blah"
are there specific books i can skip to for the philosophical stuff or is it all philosophical but im just not understanding?

>> No.14612576

>>14612513
It's a composite tradition of many different texts with many different purposes, and some of them are boring as fuck. Most people only read the 'major' Upanishads, if that. It can be helpful to read them with a commentary since most of the action is in interpreting what they say, not in obvious systematic doctrines set forth in them. What commentary you choose to read will depend on your religious preferences. Don't let any one person tell you what interpretation is 'correct' though.

If you're the average western lay reader I would recommend reading a modern commentary written by some professor. If you read something from before the 1980s you're likely to get either a very neovedantist approach, which is heavily skewed and influenced by German romanticism to be a sort of "purified" intellectual Hinduism for the modern nation. Read something middle of the road, something modern that can give you a basic idea of how historians think the Upanishads were written, and then you can dip into more one-sided interpretations on your own.

Oddly enough I think Wendy Doniger's history of Hinduism is alright for an intro. Specifically chapters 5-7 or 5-8, which cover the vedic period. She is way too one-sided herself in favor of a secularized, pluralistic image of India, and I don't like her writing style (she tries too hard to be hip and transgressive for the sake of it), but she knows the literature and she will give you a blank slate view of the development of the Upanishads, and you can go from there. That section is only about 50-100 pages if I remember.

>> No.14612619

>>14612513
If you want to read a commentary on the Upanishads by classical Hindu thinkers themselves and not modern academics etc or popularizers for a lay audience you can read Shankara's (8th century) commentaries, some of them have been posted here >>14610901 that you can check out to see if you like them

>> No.14612637

>>14610940
Britain truly destroyed India.

>> No.14612694

I was reading about the upanishads on twitter and came across this one.
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmabodha_Upanishad

Near the bottom of the article it states this.

>Chanting this Upanishad for a muhurta (period of 48 minutes) will assure no rebirth.

So why are there all these various traditions that you have to spend a life time studying and meditating over when you can just spend most of an hour reading this out loud and be freed?

>> No.14612711

To be fair, India had quite a lot going for it. For one, they had a significant head start. Mohenjo Daro was roughly equivalent to ancient Rome, technology wise. India also had natural barriers preventing invasions from more nomadic peoples.
Secondly India was one of the most fertile regions on earth. It's easy to see how they would foster something like the Upanishads.

>> No.14612747

>>14610800
>Deuteronomy

Torah is a book of law hence the protocols for the consumption of meat. Jews have had religious structure in every aspect of their lives since the beginning. The Brihadaranyaka Upanishad is a spiritual text. A more fair comparison would be the Kabbalah versus the Brihadaranyaka Upanishad. I find both books to be fascinating and enlightening.

>> No.14612754

>>14612637
With their superior philosophy no doubt.

>> No.14612773

>>14612754
>Based Lords of Becoming, The Anglo, calculating the optimal death rate from the plague to allow for smoother administration of the colony without sacrificing agricultural yields

>Indians: AAAAahhhhhhh NOOOOO Help ME BRAHMAN!

>> No.14612782

>>14612773
Don't forget that the indians couldn't even keep track of their own traditions for thousands of years and were even getting them all mixed up with their muslim overlord's traditions, until the based Brits showed up and taught them how to do history and critically compile documents properly. Modern Hinduism is practically an invention of Europeans trying to find the real religious core of India because Indians were too fucking stupid to preserve it.

>> No.14612789

>>14610901
>Advaita commentery by an Advaitan ashram
no thanks, link me a non biased translation without commentary

>> No.14612796

>>14610800
>hasnt read UG Krishnamurti

>> No.14612809

>>14612773
KEK.

>> No.14612828

>practical dietary advice vs. navel gazing and buzzwords

>> No.14612847
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14612847

Where should I visit in India if I want to learn its spiritual secrets while having the lowest chance of being poo raped?

>> No.14612856

>>14612847
Without a doubt Goa. I it is one of the few places in India to retain authentic spiritual communities that remain open to inducting westerners without catering to them.

>> No.14612884

>>14612619
So I can get both his commentaries for pretty cheap.

His version is the best for understanding Hinduism as a beginner?

I also have the Bhagavad Gita coming in the mail atm.

>> No.14612888

>>14612884
shankara is a cryptobuddhist, be careful with his interpretations

>> No.14612894

>>14612888
Who else would you suggest?

>> No.14612895
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14612895

>However, difficulties of this kind may be overcome, if once we have arrived at a clear conception of the general drift of the Upanishads. The real difficulties are of a very different character. They consist in the extraordinary number of passages which seem to us utterly meaningless and irrational, or, at all events, so far-fetched that we can hardly believe that the same authors who can express the deepest thoughts on religion and philosophy with clearness, nay, with a kind of poetical eloquence, could have uttered in the same breath such utter rubbish. Some of the sacrificial technicalities, and their philosophical interpretations with which the Upanishads abound, may perhaps in time assume a clearer meaning, when we shall have more fully mastered the intricacies of the Vedic ceremonial. But there will always remain in the Upanishads a vast amount of what we can only call meaningless jargon, and for the presence of which in these ancient mines of thought I, for my own part, feel quite unable to account.

>> No.14612928

>>14612888
most of the big 3 interpreters (shankara, ramanuja, madhva) are biased 2bh. I would go nowhere near classical interpretations, they are just riddle with sectarian nonsense.

>>14612894
just get Eknath Easwaran's translation.

>> No.14613198

>>14612694
>So why are there all these various traditions that you have to spend a life time studying and meditating over when you can just spend most of an hour reading this out loud and be freed?
I'm not sure whether that's actually stated in that Upanishad or just written about it by an over-zealous fan of it. But in either case only the Mukhya (primary) Upanishads are considered to be revealed texts and infallible sources of doctrine and truth, and the Atmabodha Upanishad is not a Mukhya Upanishad. The lesser Upanishads are still considered to contain valuable spiritual insights and lessons but don't overrule or take precedence over the primary Upanishads, and if they contain anything flagrantly contradicting the primary Upanishads then those passages would be considered as something to be disregarded or explained alternatively as an analogy or metaphor etc.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mukhya_Upanishads

>> No.14613263

>>14612884
His writings overall are not for a beginner as they go really deep into the metaphysics and involve logical arguments, but if you desire to understand Hindu metaphysics at a very deep level they are quite good. That collection of 8 Upanishad commentaries are his shortest and easiest ones though, so a beginner should still be able to understand a lot of and benefit greatly from reading them; his other longer and more dense works are definitely not for beginners though. The orientalist Paul Deussen wrote of Shankara's works in his book Three Lectures on Vedanta Philosophy "But I must warn you that his style, though much more like the style of an ordinary book, is difficult to follow, and requires the same effort of attention which we have to bestow on the intricate arguments of Aristotle or Kant."

The crypto-Buddhist stuff is nonsense and is spammed by one autistic Buddhist. A simple translation like Easwaran's is okay for a beginniner, or Olivelle's for a standard academic translation, although it's really reading the commentaries and various writings of important classical/medieval Hindu thinkers themselves and not the modern stuff which is where Hindu writings get really spectacular.

>> No.14613270

>>14613263
That book was by Max Muller I meant to write

>> No.14613360

>>14613263
>The crypto-Buddhist stuff is nonsense and is spammed by one autistic Buddhist.

no matter how much you try to push this, people can see this pic for themselves >>14611459 and make up their own minds

stop trying to control people's experience you creepy douche

>> No.14613363

>>14612782
Basically.

>> No.14613379

>>14610940
That's a big bolsac

>> No.14613397

>>14613263
Ok cool I will keep that in mind but isn't Shankara's commentary promoting his own subsect of thought as other people are claiming? I will read Gita first before the Upanishads but I don't necessarily want to read them from a single point of view, that would be counter intuitive.

>> No.14613437

>>14612789
Patrick Olivelle's

>> No.14613451

>>14613397
Correct. A lot of Shankara's material promote the 'Advaita' interpretation of the Upanishads. The Upanishads themselves can be interpreted many ways since they were passed down by different people at different points in time. You could extract qualified non-dualism (as per Ramanuja), pure non dualism (as per Vallabha) and even dualism (as per Madhva) from the Upanishads as a result. I am just here to tell you that Advaita is clearly superior and the authentic interpretation of the Upanishads, all other schools are filled with lies and misinterpretations, please sir don't even bother with other drivel focus on Advaita I promise you will know the Upanishads for sure.

There is only 1 Brahman and Shankara is his final messenger. OM

>> No.14613454

>>14612789
Max Muller

>> No.14613460
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14613460

>>14613397
The Gita itself is also a very late document, it may have layers which are much older but the version we have today is heavily redacted by the Brahman priests to support their own views. This is the case for the vast majority of Vedic material. Even the parts of it that are very old, you have to remember the people who were reading/copying them for hundreds of years obviously had their own motives.

Shankara promotes the Advaita sect, and the Dvaita and Vishishtadvaitans both think it's wrong. Naturally it thinks they're the ones who are wrong, like >>14612928 says, they are all full of sectarianism because they are religious sects. You should read all of them that interest you, but keep a critical perspective. Also you should keep in mind, just because a sect became one of the "major" ones, doesn't mean it's necessarily correct or better than some other writer who is more obscure. History works in weird ways sometimes. The key thing is, keep an open mind. For example as long as you understand that this post >>14613451 comes from a religious and not a scholarly perspective, there is no harm in taking what it says at face value.

You should just be wary of people who want to pretend they are unbiased while really presenting a biased position. Especially these days. Hindu nationalism has made it almost impossible to discuss Hinduism online.

>> No.14613464

>>14610800
>Nietzsche once claimed
Who gives a shit? An immediate indication that your thread has nothing worth reading in it, since Nietzche is always babby's first philosopher

>> No.14613592

>>14613397
>but isn't Shankara's commentary promoting his own subsect of thought as other people are claiming?
Yes, but he was the first thinker in history who we are aware of that sat down and wrote comprehensive commentaries on the major Hindu scriptures that explains how they are all internally consistent and describe an existent spiritual tradition/teaching. A few people had written Brahma Sutra commentaries before him but he wrote around 2500 pages of Upanishad commentaries on 10 or 11 Upanishads in addition to long commentaries on the Bhagavad-Gita and Brahma Sutras and other texts. He was very influential and subsequent Vedanta school founders (he was the first) would arise every few centuries after him and follow his example of writing commentaries on those texts. The next biggest and similarly influential Vedanta school found after Shankara was Ramanuja's but Ramanuja never wrote any Upanishad commentaries. So it's worth reading Shankara's works and in particular his Upanishad commentaries simply on the basis of there historical significance to and influence on Hindu thought, but then he also offers very logical arguments for his interpretation/subsect all throughout his works, which makes them interesting to read.

In all of his works his engages in debates where he writes out the arguments of his opponents from around a dozen different schools of Indian philosophy explaining why someone should disagree with Advaita or Shankara's interpretation of a certain passage and then he answers their arguments and explains why he is correct and why their argument is either illogical or not supported by the passage etc, and some of these debates stretch on for many pages. I generally find that most of his arguments are hard to argue against. When people try to criticize him or Advaita they are forced to resort to every tactic in the book like trolling, saying he stole from whatever, etc but nobody is ever able to actually grapple with his ideas and explain why they're wrong. Like here for example in this posts pic >>14612007 a professor of Buddhism went through the Buddhist philosopher Nagarjuna's magnum opus and explains point by point how the logic girding some of it's main arguments are wrong, but nobodies ever done that for Shankara or explained why any individual argument in any of his writings is based on flawed logic etc.

>> No.14613614

>>14613592
>act like a religious zealot
>get called a religious zealot
>"STOP TROLLING ME! NO ONE HAS EVER REFUTED MY RELIGION!"

aren't you the same guy who thinks hinduism = islam? do you know how heretical your views are among real indians?

>> No.14613616

Nietzsche didn't claim this at all. Read the GoM. He clearly states in the section regarding ascetic morality how Vedanta philosophy specifically is a life denying delusion and since it regards all material reality to be false, it is the epitome of life denial.

>when our own, Indo-European heritage, is so much more richer and profound
Indo-European is just a linguistic and cultural group from literally thousands of years ago. I don't see how this an argument in any way. Indian culture is nothing like western culture.

>> No.14613649

>>14613614
Nothing I said had anything to do with being a religous zealot you sperg, I wrote about why Shankara is historically significant to Hindu philosophy and about how he offers a lot of logical arguments, which even Buddhist scholars like Hajime Nakamura write without hesitation in their books on Vedanta.

>> No.14613668

>>14613649
your obsessive sectarian shitposting is why you get called a zealot, that's what i was referring to, but even in that post yes you still come across as a zealot

are you seriously not aware of this? anyway like i said above, people are obviously free to read shankara (and they should, shankara is interesting), but they should read this pic >>14611459 and judge for themselves too, since the historical situation of shankara is very complicated. for example hacker, one of the more controversial shankara interpreters who is only mentioned a little bit in that pic, thinks that almost none of the texts traditionally attributed to shankara can be historically authenticated as coming from the same person.

like i said though, people should be aware that you are a wikipedia traditionalist who literally thinks hinduism = islam, an extreme minority view that would make you outright hated in india. if you're claiming to represent a mainstream view of hinduism you're being very dishonest, you represent a tiny minority cult.

>> No.14613669
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14613669

>>14613592
>he was the FIRST
>he did before anyone
>number 1 number 1
Nagarjuna did it before him

>> No.14613685

>>14613669
i don't really understand why guenonfag is so obsessed with refuting nagarjuna considering shankara is like 95% nagarjuna with a sprinkle of upanishads added, it would just mean that shankara is wrong too

>> No.14613711

>>14613685
>it would just mean that shankara is wrong too
Shankara does not whatsoever in his works accept, defend or advance any of the fallacious reasoning which Richard Robinson castigates Nagarjuna for using

>> No.14613724

>>14613711
so that was the missing 5%?

>> No.14613735

>>14610800
>>14610811
>>14610901
>>14612619
>>14610916
>>14612884
these are all one samefag
>61 posts
>24 IPs
guenonfag's autism everyone. Why hasn't he been permabanned for spam yet?

>> No.14613746

>>14613735
to be fair i'm also like 5-10 posts ITT just because i'm arguing with guenonfag myself

>> No.14613752
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14613752

>>14613711
not him but what this have to do with Shankara's plagiarism of Nagarjuna's framework? A lot of things in Shankara's system have logical holes which Shankara inherited from Nagarjuna (such as the Jivanmukti paradox).

>> No.14613769
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14613769

>>14610800
>On the Superiority of the Ancient Indians
Based.

>> No.14613774

>>14613769
cringe

>> No.14613781

>>14613769
please stop ruining guenon with this forced meme shit, stick to ruining shankara with your wikipedia knowledge

>> No.14613789

>>14613735
/lit/ mods have given up moderating this board. This thread shouldn't even exist, it barely references a book and is more ideological shitposting. When are we going to get the long overdue /ph/ (Philosophy and Humanities) board and contain low IQ posters I wonder.

>> No.14613795

>>14613769
based... i will construct an altar to worshi- uh i mean venerate guenon too!

>> No.14613800

>>14613769
>shit stain on Guenon's forehead
based!

>> No.14613809
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14613809

>>14611840
Why do you say obsessed ? Most of the threads in this board are related to western literature/philosophy I believe

>> No.14613849
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14613849

> Yes I am conducting my Hello Kitty Hindu ritual, how could you tell?

>> No.14614056
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14614056

Since this is a now a Guëno-thread, I'll ask something of the scholars here:
What does Guenon consider valid initiation as of the current state of the world?

>> No.14614073
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14614073

>>14613849

>> No.14614147

>>14614056
Well his primary disciple Frithjof Schuon thought it was this:

On October 11th 1991, Frithjof Schuon, the leader of an international religious order, was indicted on the felony charge of child molestation. committed under "cult pressure and influence". The indictment, passed down by a five member Grand Jury, headed by Lucy Cherbas, stated:

"that Frithjof Schuon... did perform fondling or touching [on three girls] 15 years of age, 14 years of age and 13 years of age, respectively, with the intent to arouse or satisfy sexual desires of Frithjof Schuon, in violation of I.C. 35-42 43. [And that] said persons were compelled to submit to touching by force or imminent threat of force, to wit: by undue cult influences and cult pressures, in violation of 35-42-4-8."

Jesus Garcia Varela, a high ranking inner circle member of the cult, had been investigated by the Louisville Police in 1991 for nude photos of his 2 young daughters. He escaped prosecution of this episode by claiming that it was a common practice in Spain to visually record a girl's puberty.

Michael Fitzgerald's son was present at the Gatherings. The boy, then perhaps 14, had been made to watch his mother and her sister, Jennifer Casey, dance nude for Schuon at one of the Gatherings.

>> No.14614164

>>14614147
>Frithjof Schuon
wasn;t he demonic and satanic? I want to know a legitimate position...

>> No.14614171

>>14614147
>He escaped prosecution of this episode by claiming that it was a common practice in Spain to visually record a girl's puberty.
Based!

>> No.14614181

>>14614164
One of his ex-wives started a blog a year ago basically confirming he was a psychopath since the '60s, which is when Nasr was under his sway. So Nasr is probably a piece of shit too, which is not that far fetched given his own weird connections.

The whole trad cult is ugly as fuck. Guenon himself was probably alright. But Lings said even he went a little nuts in his later life, became paranoid schizo maybe. Although Lings was Schuon's boy, so maybe Guenon was just distancing himself from Schuon after he started getting naked with little boys constantly, and Lings was caught in the middle.

>> No.14614213

>>14614181
>Guenon himself was probably alright.
Guenon is based and you can detect that from looking at the man and reading him. The others irk me and I feel uneasy about them. Like something very sinister is hiding behind the surface.
>which is not that far fetched given his own weird connections
Is he involved in abusing kids too or is it just his CIA/PRISM/NASA informant connections?

>> No.14614225
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14614225

>>14610800
>On the Superiority of the Ancient Indians
This. They even invented toilets centuries before the disgusting Westerners.

>> No.14614239

>>14614213
I think Guenon was probably alright yeah. I read a biography of him recently and although it was the typical fawning hagiography, he does seem like a decent guy who sincerely believed in the things he wrote and studied. I mostly meant the latter sort of connections yep, but who fucking knows. To me, anyone who was cool with Schuon's megalomania and sex scandals is immediately suspect, ta at least for having some pretty poor judgement.

I've known a couple people who were full-blown Nasr disciples and man were they crazy. A few were deprogrammed though, they were nice and fully aware that it's a cult. Had some nice chats with them.

>> No.14614255

let's take a deep dive into guenonfag's insanity

https://warosu.org/lit/image/8T6deMMrqTgINXBB54d28w

>> No.14614262

>>14614255
>2015
why has he not achieved moksha or atman or whatever the fuck and is still posting here about girlcock? or is this just a disembodied entity just trying to save us all from this material world?

>> No.14614998

>>14614255
based

>> No.14615541

>>14612782
>Hindu traditions are about history
>Religious syncretism bad
On the other hand brits couldn't even into the most basic texts surrounding social structure

>> No.14615545

>>14612856
Lel

>> No.14615679
File: 32 KB, 395x606, Upanishads-Nikhilananda_v1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14615679

>>14612789
>>14613454
>>14613437
The real answer.

>> No.14615702 [DELETED] 

>>14610800
https://discord.gg/uqt6A77

>> No.14615741

>>14612847
In case someone's retarded, that's not real incident or news article.

>> No.14615754

None of the 19th century Germans read past Plotinus, if they even read him. All this fumbling of German Idealism is solely because of the Enlightenments ignorance about Neoplatonism.

>> No.14615758

>>14614164
Just Swiss

>> No.14615818

>>14611840
They are desperate for cope.

>> No.14615840

Hey guys, let's hold hands and take a serious look at nigger superstitions.

>> No.14615850

>>14610800
based

>> No.14615873
File: 20 KB, 265x310, 1444701597263.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14615873

>>14610800
>>14610901
Upanishads are based and Schopenhauer was instrumental in bringing their wisdom to the West.
>Question: Why do we still waste so much time & energy with Desert Trilogy when our own, Indo-European heritage, is so much more richer and profound?
C'mon, Anon. You've been reading Nietzsche. You know why.

>> No.14616041

>>14615818
This. Gnosticism is the ultimate cope, the justification for defeatism and seclusion from humanity.

>> No.14616183

>>14612847
>smeared faeces on girl
He was just initiating her into the deep initiatic Vedantic tradition. She, as a subhuman Westerner, should be greatful to him even if he took her virginity as payment.

>> No.14616240

>>14615679
In that translation he just follow's Shankara's interpretation and presents a simplified summary of it, if you are going to read that you might as well read the actual writing of Shankara that it is based on instead of a simplified version.

>> No.14616241

>>14611840
/lit/ is Nihilism incarnate because it's literally where the most pretentious and ambitious of the absolute dregs of society gather

>> No.14616252

>>14616041
Maybe Gnosticism but not Hinduism, what you describe is contradicted by texts like the Bhagavad-Gita

>> No.14616267
File: 13 KB, 285x216, Guenon_Bros.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14616267

>>14616241
>/lit/ is Nihilism incarnate
Guenon refuted nihilism though.

>> No.14616295

I can't help but read all of this serious scholarship about this stuff and laugh because it's just "Hugabulugua said that the Schumbago booboo doesn't not the Fifth Scrumbo" as if I'm supposed to just nod along like it's perfectly legible to anybody.

>> No.14616313
File: 162 KB, 1400x600, 1579740065893.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14616313

>>14616295
>"Hugabulugua said that the Schumbago booboo doesn't not the Fifth Scrumbo"

>> No.14616346

>>14616267
>refuted nihilism
Bravo, every philosopher achieved this individually, we didnt need Guenon to point it out (though maybe you did)

>> No.14616357

>>14616295
Same to be honest. I feel like someone is speaking Hegel, but taking out the technical jargin and exactitudes and adding In more “I am the being with which the one is me as me is the I which is nonbeing” then adding in envoking John Gupta Gupta in a prayer like verse.

I’ll probably try to penitraite the gobildygook sometime.

>> No.14616367

>>14616357
>I feel like someone is speaking Hegel, but taking out the technical jargin and exactitudes and adding In more “I am the being with which the one is me as me is the I which is nonbeing” then adding in envoking John Gupta Gupta in a prayer like verse
Exactly my feelings as well, though I've never took the time to approach the primary source and decipher it, I really have to admit that I've never encountered a good summary

>> No.14616541

>>14616357
Like, I'm sure it's talking about interesting and engaging metaphysical, ethical, or logical questions. Unfortunately the exoticism of it all has only been emphasized, which honestly makes me suspicious of it all.

>> No.14616706
File: 40 KB, 250x296, 1580150990637.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14616706

>>14616346
>achieved this individually
But Guénon achieved it supra-indvidiually.

>> No.14616842
File: 23 KB, 220x277, 1558581766220.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14616842

Just as a nose might become a fragrance, or ears might give out a melody For their own enjoyment, or the eyes might produce a mirror In order to see themselves; or just as cheeks might become a soft breeze, or a head might take the form of Champaka blossoms In order to produce a sweet scent; or a tongue might become sweetness, a lotus bud might blossom as the sun, or a Chakora bird might become the moon; or flowers might take the form of a bee, a lovely young girl might become a young man, or a sleepy man might become a bed on which to lie; as the blossoms of a mango tree might become a cuckoo bird, or one’s skin might become Malayan breezes, Or tongues might become flavors; Or as a slab of gold might become Articles of jewelry For the sake of beauty; Just so, the one pure Consciousness becomes The enjoyer and the object of enjoyment, The seer and the object of vision, Without disturbing Its unity. A Shevanti flower bursts forth With a thousand petals; Yet it does not become anything But a Shevanti flower. Similarly, the auspicious drums of ever new experiences May be sounding, But in the kingdom of Stillness, Nothing is heard. All of the senses may rush simultaneously Toward the multitude of sense objects, But, just as, in a mirror, One’s vision only meets one’s vision, The rushing senses only meet themselves. One may purchase a necklace, earrings, or a bracelet; but it is only gold, whichever one receives.

One may gather a handful of ripples, but it is only water in the hand. To the hand, camphor is touch, to the eye, it’s a white object, to the nose it is fragrance; nonetheless, it is camphor, and nothing but camphor. Likewise, the sensible Universe is only the vibration of the Self. The various senses attempt to catch their objects in their hands. For example, the ears try to catch the words; but as soon as the senses touch their objects, the objects disappear as objects. there’s no object for one to touch; for all is the Self. The juice of the sugarcane is part of the sugarcane; the light of the full moon belongs to the full moon. The meeting of the senses and their objects is like moonlight falling on the Moon, or like water sprinkling on the sea. One who has attained this wisdom may say whatever he likes; the silence of his contemplation remains undisturbed. His state of actionlessness remains unaffected, even though he performs countless actions. Stretching out the arms of desire, one’s eyesight embraces the objects she sees; but, in fact, nothing at all is gained. It is like the Sun stretching out the thousand arms of his rays in order to grasp darkness. He remains only light, as before; just as a person, awakening to enjoy the activity of a dream, finds himself suddenly alone. Even one who has attained wisdom may appear to become the enjoyer of the sense objects before him; but we do not know what his enjoyment is like. If the Moon gathers moonlight, What is gathered by who? It is only a fruitless and meaningless dream.

>> No.14616846
File: 199 KB, 646x831, 154581877258.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14616846

>>14616842
That yoga which yogis attain through restraining the senses and other ascetic practices, When placed before this path, is like the moon placed before daylight. There is really no action or inaction; everything that is happening is the sport of the Self. The undivided One enters the courtyard of duality of His own accord. Unity only becomes strengthened by the expansion of diversity. Sweeter even than the bliss of liberation is the enjoyment of sense objects to one who has attained wisdom in the house of bhakti (devotional love), that lover and his God experience their sweet union. Whether he walks in the streets or remains sitting quietly, He is always in his own home. He may perform actions, but he has no goal to attain. Do not imagine that, if he did nothing, he would miss his goal. he does not allow room for either remembering or forgetting; For this reason, his behavior is not like that of others. His rule of conduct is his own sweet will. His meditation is whatever he happens to be doing.

The glory of liberation serves as an asana (seat cushion). To one in such a state, God Himself is the devotee; the goal is the path. The whole Universe is one solitary Being. It is He who becomes a God, and He who becomes a devotee in Himself, He enjoys the kingdom of Stillness. The temple itself is merged in the all-pervasive God; the motion of time and the vastness of space are no more. Everything is contained in the Being of God. Where is there any room for the Goddess? Neither are there any attendants. If a desire for the Master-disciple relationship arises, it is God alone who must supply both out of Himself. Even the devotional practices, such as japa (repetition of God’s name) faith and meditation, are not different from God. Therefore, God must worship God with God, in one way or another. The temple, the idol, and the priests all are carved out of the same stone mountain. Why, then, should there be devotional worship? [Or why should there not be devotional worship?]. A tree spreads its foliage, and produces flowers and fruits, even though it has no objective outside of itself. But what does it matter if a dumb person observes a vow of silence or not? The wise remain steadfast in their own divinity whether they worship or not. What’s the point of worshipping with rice an idol of the Goddess that’s made out of rice?

>> No.14616854
File: 13 KB, 208x277, jnanadev.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14616854

>>14616846
Will the flame of a lamp remain without light if we do not ask her to wear the garment of light? Is not the Moon bathed in light even though we do not ask her To wear the moonlight? Fire is naturally hot; why should we consider heating it? A wise person is aware that he, himself, is the Lord, Shiva; Therefore, even when he is not worshipping, he is worshipping. Now the lamps of action and inaction have both been snuffed out and worshipping and not worshipping are sitting in the same seat, and eating from the same bowl. In such a state, the sacred scriptures are the same as censure, and censure itself is the same as a sweet hymn of praise. Both praise and censure are, in fact, reduced to silence; even though there is speech, It is silence. No matter where he goes, that sage is making pilgrimage to Shiva; and, if he attains to Shiva, that attainment is non-attainment. How amazing that in such a state, moving about on foot and remaining seated in one place are the same! No matter what his eyes fall upon at any time, he always enjoys the vision of Shiva. If Shiva Himself appears before him, it is as if he has seen nothing; For God and His devotee are on the same level.

Of its own nature, a ball falls to the ground, and bounces up again, enraptured in its own bliss. If ever we could watch the play of the ball, we might be able to say something about the behavior of the sage. The spontaneous, natural devotion cannot be touched by the hand of action, nor can knowledge penetrate it. It goes on without end, in communion with itself. What bliss can be compared to this? This natural devotion is a wonderful secret; it is the place in which meditation and knowledge become merged. Hari and Hara (Vishnu and Shiva) are, of course, really the same; but now, even their names and forms have become identical. Oh, and Shiva and Shakti, who were swallowing each other, are now both swallowed up simultaneously. And even the subtlest speech, eating up all objects and drinking up gross speech, has now taken its rest in sleep. O blissful and almighty Lord! You have made us the sole sovereign in the kingdom of perfect bliss. How wonderful that You have awakened the wakeful, laid to rest those who are sleeping, and made us to realize our own Self! We are Yours entirely! Out of love, You include us as Your own, as is befitting Your greatness. You do not receive anything from anyone, nor do You give anything of Yourself to anyone else. We do not know how You enjoy Your greatness. As the Guru, you are the greatest of the great; But You are also very light, capable of buoying up your disciples, And thus saving them from drowning in the world. Only by Your grace can these dual qualities Of Yours be understood. Would the scriptures have extolled You, if, by sharing it with Your disciple, Your unity were disturbed? . O noble One! It is Your pleasure To become our nearest and dearest. By taking away from us Our sense of difference from You

Jnanadeva - Amritanubhav

>> No.14616855
File: 13 KB, 225x297, guenon.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14616855

>>14616706
Lovecraft is just guenon without a mustache

>> No.14617557

>>14615873
>You know why.
I'm sorry I don't. Can you explain your post to a retard please?

>> No.14617588

>>14612637
No they didn't you retarded ignorant fuck. The Mughals did that. The Mughals so weakened India and the Hindi traditions of thousands of years that the British were able to easily take over a weakened people. Learn some history Jew lover.

>> No.14617601

>>14612782
this was true because of
>>14617588

>> No.14618485

On the superiority of Poo

>> No.14619574
File: 962 KB, 2529x1214, 1562605551010.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14619574

bump

>> No.14619609

>>14610800
Nietzsche was a gay fag, those "philosophical geniuses'" descendents are shitting on themselves as we speak, and cucked themselves to the "philosophical hacks" for 300+ years. You can tell he died from syphilis because of how fucking retarded his ramblings are, how can you take this guy seriously?

>> No.14620471

>>14615754
can you elaborate?

>> No.14620814

>>14619574
Based!

>> No.14620818

>>14620814
Stop samefagging holy fuck

>> No.14620875
File: 528 KB, 959x1200, 1580197769978.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14620875

>>14620818
Not samefagging I swear Brother.

>> No.14621575

>>14610800
>On the Superiority of the Ancient Indians
Based Dravidian.

>> No.14621591

>>14610800
Nietzsche also shat all over the Eastern Philosophers who were trying to escape the real world (maya) by running away to be in union with "Brahman" or "Nirvana".

I like how Buddhatards and Hindufags say
>b-b-but our religions arent Nihilistic, thats Christianity!!
When Nietzsche thought they were in essence, the same as Christianity, even if they were more advanced.

>> No.14621598

>>14617557
>>14621591

>> No.14621684
File: 152 KB, 355x444, 1576402647780.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14621684

>>14621591
>When Nietzsche thought they were in essence, the same as Christianity
But Nietzsche was retroactively shown to be wrong in his thinking.

>> No.14621696

>>14621684
Guenon also said that all religions were the same retard.

>> No.14621748

>>14621696
[citation needed]
he never says such a thing.

>> No.14621768

>>14621696
>Guenon also said that all religions were the same retard.
*Tips fedora*

>> No.14621777

>>14621748
>>14621768
Have sex.

>> No.14621783

>>14621684
Guenon was teleoplexically refuted by capital aka Nick Land.

>> No.14621788

>>14621748
He clearly does. He even converted to Islam and then reverted back to Catholicism in his later years, because he thought they were both the same as Hinduism. What a joke.

>> No.14621802
File: 32 KB, 285x216, Longfaced Bros.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14621802

>>14621788
>then reverted back to Catholicism in his later years
But he spoke the shahadah as his final Word in the human state of being.

>> No.14621811

>>14621802
refer to >>14616855

>> No.14621831
File: 242 KB, 862x980, guenon emanation.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14621831

>>14621783
Guénon (pbuh) preempted Nick Land's retroactive refutation of capital by more than a century, thus retroactively showing himself to be the greater Thinker (in the proper sense of the word) even on these lesser & profane topics.
>>14621802
Based.

>> No.14621874
File: 494 KB, 647x656, 1576994441578.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14621874

>>14621783
Cringe. Nick Land just wraps Guenonian thought into 'weird' and 'quirky' metaphors to peddle it to the unintelligent. Some good might come of it in the future though.
>>14621831
Baste. Capital is merely a mode of manifestation of 'pure quantity' in this world.
>>14621802
Based.

>> No.14621897

>>14621874
You always use that image when replying to yourself.

>> No.14621913
File: 30 KB, 600x633, 1580106536014.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14621913

>>14621897
>replying to yourself
Based!

>> No.14621914

>>14611840
They are the philosophies of pessimistic resentment elevated on a cosmic scale, aiming at self extinction, coupled with rejection of logicism as a theory of knowledge.
They can't handle that creation is good, that being is meaningful, even less can they admit that God loves.

>> No.14621922
File: 38 KB, 358x228, guenon enjoying coffee.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14621922

>>14621914
>creation is good, being is meaningful, God loves.
Guenon (pbuh) affirms all of these things.

>> No.14621929

>>14621922
Guenon wasn't Hindu and even less Buddhist.

>> No.14621943
File: 126 KB, 348x186, bros.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14621943

>>14621929
He was honorary-lly and spiritually an Advaito-Vedantian.
>even less Buddhist
Naturally, for Buddhism is a refuted false doctrine as detailed by Sri Shankaracharya (pbuh) in his commentaries on the Upanishads, which Guenon draws from heavily for all of his thought.

>> No.14621948

Monsieur la Guenon's monkeying around amuses me (if you know what I mean)

>> No.14621954

>>14621943
>Advaito-Vedantian.
any good YouTube videos on the topic? i'm intimidated by the texts themselves for now.

>> No.14622666
File: 89 KB, 548x433, vishn63.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14622666

>>14621591
>implying that the material world is the real world
>implying we should take seriously a syphilitic-ridden fool who didn't have the emotion fortitude to resist a nervous collapse at the sight of a horse being beaten
>14621696
Wrong, he said that some like Protestantism were almost devoid of value and were more like specialized schools of philosophy, and even in the religions that have great value it's not that everything in it is equally true and valuable but sometimes that the essential and most valuable teachings are the province of esoterism within that religion.
>>14621831
based
>>14621874
based
>>14621913
supra-based
>>14621914
>They are the philosophies of pessimistic resentment
How can there be any resentment for one regards all beings as being identical with and permeated by his own Self?
>>14621954
Swami Sarvapriyananda lectures on youtube. If you are intimidated by the texts you can begin with a fairly short and accessible one like the Ashtavakra Gita at this link

https://realization.org/p/ashtavakra-gita/richards.ashtavakra-gita/richards.ashtavakra-gita.html

>> No.14622790

>>14622666
>>14621943
>>14621922
>>14621913
>>14621874
>>14621831
>>14621802
>>14621684
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa
Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma
Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa
Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma
Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa
Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma
Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa
Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma
Rāma Rāma Hare Hare
Hare Kṛṣṇa Hare Kṛṣṇa
Kṛṣṇa Kṛṣṇa Hare Hare
Hare Rāma Hare Rāma
Rāma Rāma Hare Hare

>> No.14622903

>>14613752
>the Jivanmukti paradox
google search returns nothing, did you make that up?

>> No.14623353

Based...

>> No.14623459

>>14610800
Being the best does not necessarily result from being first.

>> No.14624052

>>14619574
Hegel dismisses being in the first pages of the logic. He’s on the side of becoming.

>> No.14624061

>>14610800
Nothing good has ever come out of India. Nietzsche was probably trying to take a shot at (superior) England

>> No.14625353

Guenonfag's meme threads are getting worse and worse.

>> No.14625653

>>14610800
Can someone explain what the upanishad is saying? It just sounds to me like blah blah universe is infinite so is the brahman which doesn't exactly make any sense to me.

t.brainlet

>> No.14625703
File: 275 KB, 1864x641, 1574243105219.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14625703

>> No.14625791

>>14625653
see >>14611005

>> No.14625842

>>14625791
That's shankara isn't it? I'm not interested in cryptobuddhist interpretations, could you link a more credible commentary?

>> No.14625982

>>14619574
Really based.

>> No.14626271
File: 245 KB, 900x477, charles-manson-neeche.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14626271

>>14610800

>> No.14627047

>>14610800
>Nietzsche once claimed that when it comes to philosophical talent, India is first, and England is last (worst).
he was right

>> No.14627350

>>14614164
Schuon thought Protestantism was based and trad...yea, I'm thinking he was demonic

best followers of Guenon are the ones who don't actually follow him: Wolfgang Smith, Jean Borella, Jean Hani

>> No.14627360

>>14614181
>>14614213
Did Guenon really have that much affection for guys like Schuon? Seems to me when he was in Egypt he wanted to avoid intellectuals. He would definitely have not agreed with Schuon that Luther and Protestantism are Traditionalist.

Titus Burckhardt, Michel Valsan >>>>>> Schuon

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