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/lit/ - Literature

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14595614 No.14595614 [Reply] [Original]

Why is Shakespeare a genius, or better yet, considered the greatest writer of all time? I'm aware of his popularity, but I would like to know why he is considered so highly.

>> No.14595633

>>14595614
God-tier poet and first writer of modern characters. Injected himself everywhere into everyday language.

>> No.14595636

>>14595633
How is he a god tier poet?

>> No.14595638

>>14595614

I don't know, I looked up this one today and it just seems weird. Why the seven stages? Says who? The way he divides them are weird and random. Some of his words make no sense 'bubble reputation'. Some of his descriptions random. It is thorough ill give that, but more autistic than anything:


All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players;
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages. At first the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse’s arms;
And then the whining school-boy, with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school. And then the lover,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his mistress’ eyebrow. Then a soldier,
Full of strange oaths, and bearded like the pard,
Jealous in honour, sudden and quick in quarrel,
Seeking the bubble reputation
Even in the cannon’s mouth. And then the justice,
In fair round belly with good capon lin’d,
With eyes severe and beard of formal cut,
Full of wise saws and modern instances;
And so he plays his part. The sixth age shifts
Into the lean and slipper’d pantaloon,
With spectacles on nose and pouch on side;
His youthful hose, well sav’d, a world too wide
For his shrunk shank; and his big manly voice,
Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his sound. Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion;
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.

>> No.14595642

>>14595638
the first four lines are the god tier ones we all know but the rest is just pure silliness

>> No.14595651

>>14595638
>>14595642
it is supposed to be comedic where all that builds to the punchline:
>Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything.

>> No.14595678

>>14595638
>All the world’s a stage,
>And all the men and women merely players;
>They have their exits and their entrances;
>And one man in his time plays many parts,
>>14595642
I feel like it's the first thing someone writes. I remember writing a vairant of this, more sloppy of course, but it's not that deep.

>> No.14595691

>>14595614
Because literally EVERYTHING that came after him is derivative

>> No.14595707

>>14595691
Shakespeare himself was exceptionally derivative.

>> No.14595804

>>14595638
>bubble reputation
think of fame as a bubble: it's a fragile thing to get, here today me too'd tomorrow, e.g. Woody Allen- *pop*
it makes perfect sense, anon. Think dynamically.

>> No.14595821

https://www.britannica.com/topic/Shakespeares-Genius-1733556

>> No.14595825

>>14595638
It's describing the seven stages because it's comparing every life to that of a play, with every new age mile stone containing new plot revelations etc.
Bubble reputation is in regards to the fuitility and impermanence of fame and glory
>autistic than anything
That's kind of the point, he's mocking his own style while semi-seriously giving an actual speech

>> No.14595834

Just fucking read him you sissys
All of his plays are free online and it'll take no more than a day or two to read(unless you go for hamelt, which is also probably the best starting spot)

>> No.14595846

>>14595614
Because English is the lingua franca and Anglo culture has dominated the world. Besides, Chaucer is hard to read.

Had it been Greek or Italian, we'd consider Homer or Dante to be superior (which they are).

>> No.14595849

>>14595614
anglo delusions

>> No.14595851

>>14595636
because he churned out shit like this

>Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,
>Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,
>To the last syllable of recorded time;
>And all our yesterdays have lighted fools
>The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!
>Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,
>That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,
>And then is heard no more. It is a tale
>Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,
>Signifying nothing.

>> No.14595855

>>14595849
keep telling yourself that pablo

>> No.14595858

>>14595636
See Helen Vendler's rather dissective look at the Sonnets for some sense of his scale of sheer technical mastery. Combine that with how his psychological acumen passes tests of experience, and the result is the least misleading of all writers, whatever else there is to be said about his qualities & imaginative tone.

>> No.14595920

>>14595851
Beautiful

>> No.14596015

Reading your replies and realizing that /lit/ knows actually nothing about literature. Jfc, calling Shakespeare an autist because you don't understand.

>> No.14596031

ITT seething non-anglos

>> No.14596841

>>14595834
It feels like it should beenve performed, not read

>> No.14596864

>>14595614
Tolstoi said Shakespeare's plays were awful (and that Chekhov's were even worse)

>> No.14596896

I saw someone ask about Shakespeare editions but the post is archived now and I wanted to share this resource:
https://www.waggish.org/critical-editions-of-shakespeare/

Btw, does anyone know of a good guide for Original Pronunciation? I don't want to study it for months, just the basics and hints to get the gist of it.

>> No.14596989

>>14596864
Tolstoi can't write for shit and intentionally made his writing as boring and plain as possible. he's a literary puritan.

>> No.14597286

>>14596031
Shakespeare was Jewish

>> No.14597305

>>14596015
Wait till you read the 'philosophy' threads.

>> No.14597306

>>14595846
>>14595849
This

>> No.14597316

>>14595846
>we'd consider
>'d
Anyone with half a brain considers Dante to be the greatest writer of all time.

>> No.14598299

>>14596841
You won't understand his technical genius without studying the scripts

>> No.14598355

>>14595614
he wrote some interesting and complex stories that paved the way for English language to grow

>> No.14598384

>>14595846
This will never be anything but ESL cope.

>> No.14598475
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14598475

>>14595614

His work in philosophy together with his plays makes him the greatest genius in history

>> No.14599864
File: 149 KB, 1200x800, Screen_Shot_2018_05_11_at_15.31.23.0.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
14599864

>>14595707
based

>> No.14601133

Reminder that very few people in continental Europe cared about Shakespeare until the Anglos became dominant in the political sphere. The valuation of art is inherantly tied to the power structures behind it. They needed someone to be the literary ancestor of the modern Anglo and like it or not, Shakespeare was the best fit.

>> No.14601153

>>14595851
it was this quality combined with his quantity and its application in brilliant story structure and character archetypes that made him a genius.

>> No.14601324

>>14598475
>the greatest genius in history
*sigh*

>> No.14601331

>>14601324
to be fair this is a superlative that could be criticized if it was used for anyone. Let the man use his hyperbole and don't quibble for no purpose.

>> No.14601338

>>14595707
every piece of literature is exceptionally derivative

>> No.14601399

>>14595636
Have you read his sonnets?

>> No.14601413

>>14601133
What's funny is that Shakes is the least English writer. He is universal.

>> No.14601444

Likely because he changed the English language so drastically. Also he's managed to get a grasp of timeless tales and archetypal characters. As such, many writers and filmmakers have made adaptations of his work. I personally love Shakespeare and think he's worthy of all the praise he gets.

>> No.14601465

>>14601444
same here, he deserved fame on his sonnets alone, but that he also implemented his poetry into archetypal storytelling is what makes him a genius amongst geniuses.

>> No.14602008

>>14595614
I don't get it he was a dumb peasant that could barely read, was he a façade for the real writer that never dared to come public because it would ruin his reputation or just proof that real talent and genius exist?

>> No.14602142

>>14602008

The latter, obviously.

>> No.14602271

>>14598384
This will never be anything but EOP cope.

>> No.14602273

>>14601413
And catholic.

>> No.14602290

>>14598475
I wouldn't trust such a philosopher for his views

>> No.14602371

>>14602008
The first, obviously. Most of his plays were written by Sir Francis Bacon

>> No.14602627

>>14602008
His education at the Stratford grammar school was at least the equivalent of a classics undergrad today... endless hours of Latin grammar enforced with a birch rod across the knuckles if you goofed off. It’s clear he was familiar with Latin poetry, history and comedy and used those writers as sources in his plays, and he loved to use dirty Latin jokes (see the Latin lesson in Merry Wives of Windsor) For some reason this gifted kid from the sticks didn’t go to university but by then he had learned enough to be able to self educate via books and the experience of being a working player exposed to the contemporary theater.

>> No.14602656

>>14602008
>or just proof that real talent and genius exist?

yes

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxHyhHQSrfw

>> No.14602713

>>14595707
Of a vast array of things. There isn't a poet in English who isn't influenced by him.

>> No.14602788

>>14602142
Shakespeare's father, John Shakespeare, was a glover (glove-maker) and town official. He married Mary Arden, one of the Ardens of Warwickshire, a family of the local gentry. Both signed their names with a mark, and no other examples of their writing are extant.[40] This is often used as an indication that Shakespeare was brought up in an illiterate household. There is also no evidence that Shakespeare's two daughters were literate, save for two signatures by Susanna that appear to be "drawn" instead of written with a practised hand. His other daughter, Judith, signed a legal document with a mark.

Nigga wtf there is also no record of his early life and education

>> No.14602820

>>14602656
download Talent is overrated by geof colvin and read the mozart chapter, that made me question Shakespeare in the first place, mozart began his education at like 4-5 yrs old by his strict father who was a pretty famous composer, he basically worked his ass off long hours everyday until he perfected his craft, his compositions since he was a teen/child were compilations of other composers pieces help from his father , his first original composition from when he was in his early 20s aren't so acclaimed, and his famous work came after a shitload of years, even more insane public performences that he gave playing the instrument from when he was like 6 or 8 are 2 levels below of what a child "prodigy "(same shit lots of work) today can perform based on an obective measurement scale by some academics in i for got what study, i'm telling you man that chapter blew my man that's why i'm so skeptic on shakespeare read the book insanely motivational

>> No.14602879

>>14601413
Every culture thinks theirs is universal, Harry

>> No.14604309

>>14602820
Shakespeare just ripped off other plays for the first half of his career.

>> No.14604499

>>14595614
how about you read his works?

>> No.14604539

>>14604309
did you just admit you read only for the plot?

>> No.14604593

>>14604539
Did I mention plots, brainlet?

>> No.14604681

>>14595638
i dont get it. did he forget to use the, are, is, etc

>> No.14604724

>>14604309
You absolute brainlet, that's how story telling worked in his time. You'd take an existing story and rewrite in your own way, chaucer did the exact same shit. Completely original tales where a rarity, but if you really want his brain child that bad read the tempest(also one of his best works)

>> No.14604753

>>14604724
Did I mention plots, brainlet?

>> No.14604777

>>14604681
[Aside] Is he truly this new? Quick, what's a metre?

>> No.14604792

>>14604753
>complains about story not being original
>no, that's how stories where written at the time
>D-Did I mention plots?!
Retard

>> No.14604794

>>14604539
>>14604724
>>14604792
^ absolute clinical retards who do not grasp that the poster they are replying to is defending Shakespeare.

>> No.14604804

>>14595858
>least misleading of all writers
I guess you got that from the person you just cited, but that's a very nice way of putting it.

>> No.14604825

>>14604792
No, what I said was:

>Shakespeare just ripped off other plays for the first half of his career.

I never "complained about stories" or even mentioned "stories" or "plots" in my comment. I was rebutting the poster's "skepticism about Shakespeare" by explaining that he did indeed follow the same template as Mozart. Shakespeare spent the first half of his career simply imitating and often lifting wholesale the language of his forebears. That's how he got good.

>> No.14604966

>>14604825
has this training writing survived?