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14580851 No.14580851 [Reply] [Original]

How many of you on here understand that Dugin is literally the future, or at least that he has diagnosed the future which is unfolding before out eyes? The accelerationists, the transhumanists, the queer theorists--and on the other hand the traditionalists, the Christians, the Islamists, the fascists--his theory points the way toward understanding what is essentially right and essentially wrong in this world in the way that no other thinker does. Why aren't you reading him?

>> No.14580860

The future is Confucianism with Western characteristics, or if we're lucky, Rougism with American characteristics.

>> No.14580878

>>14580851
i read him like 2 years ago when i was still retarded. he helped me understand how gay liberalism really is.

>> No.14580879

>>14580860
this may be compatible with the Fourth Political Theory... have you read Thoreau

>> No.14580893
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14580893

>>14580878
Couldn't recommend more highly than to look into him again. Attention to his work is urgently needed in this West of ours

http://www.4pt.su/en/content/radical-object-necro-ontology-dark-enlightenment-negarestanis-philosophy

>> No.14580894

>>14580851
>politics
Is there anything more pleb on this earth than thinking that reasoning and ‘using your voice’ actually does shit?

>> No.14580911
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14580911

>>14580894
Is there anything more waste tier than shilling for submentalism and subhumanism on an ugaritic poetry forum desu

>> No.14580916

>>14580851
I agree with his assessments of the current intellectual and geopolitical landscapes generally and find the premises of the 4PT interesting, but... I don't think he's a profound thinker judging from what I read so far. I don't think he is the one to realize the full potential of his own ideas. He's more of a propagandist than an intellectual.

>> No.14580917
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14580917

>>14580893
oh i definitely will at some point, i own physical copies of 4pt and rise of 4pt. is there anything else worth reading?

>> No.14580929

Is Political Platonism a good place to start with Dugin?

>> No.14580931

Get off the internet lol

>> No.14580933
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14580933

>>14580916
If you want to be surprised, I would say look into his work on Heidegger. I find that he is a substantial and rigorous thinker and writer. The new work on Noomakhia is also very clearly non-simplistic

http://www.4pt.su/en/content/introduction-noomakhia-lecture-7-christian-logos

>> No.14580943

>>14580911
>disregarding politics is smallbrain activity
Holy shit this is too fucking rich— I bet you need to know which side of a ‘political spectrum’ someone is on before you read them
Jfc it’s like thinking with training wheels on

>> No.14580949
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14580949

>>14580917
If you are interested in sociology, there are translations of his work under the titles Ethnos and Society and Foundations of Ethnosociology. In these he establishes his pretermodern and highly specialized understanding of ethnicity in a way that's very academic. Look into his work on Heidegger and, if you are literate in Russian, pick up In Search of the Dark Logos

>> No.14580954
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14580954

>>14580943
Spoken like someone who has read neither Dugin nor Strauss' Three Waves of Modernity

>> No.14580960

>>14580933
He is a gadfly, you could say. But he has this advantage over Western intellectuals: he is a true believer. He is not some cynical deconstructionist or blasé skeptic. He believes in what he says, and belief can be contagious.

>> No.14580964

>>14580933
>Noomakhia
Any PDFs?

>> No.14580966

>>14580879
Thoreau is cringe

>> No.14580972
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14580972

>>14580929
Political Platonism is a superior place to end up but it may not necessarily be a good place to start. Try to get a grounding in his thought through his lectures and interviews on liberalism and transhumanism, then get acquainted with the Fourth Political Theory, then grab a copy of Political Platonism however is easiest.

>> No.14580976

>>14580851
>his theory points the way toward understanding what is essentially right and essentially wrong in this world in the way that no other thinker does.
you haven't heard my theory about the based/cringe continuum.

>> No.14580980
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14580980

>>14580964
Several transcribed lectures live on 4pt.su as well as recorded lectures on his Youtube. Great stuff

http://www.4pt.su/en/content/three-logoi-introduction-triadic-methodology-noomakhia

>> No.14580983

>>14580966
>he's gay

>> No.14580991

Name me one (1) thing Dugin said that wasn't already said better by Carl Schmitt.

>> No.14581000

>>14580851
What is his opinion on Judaism?

>> No.14581002

>>14580851
he was supposed to speak at my uni
i wanted to go see him but they shut the whole thing down because a bunch of seething retarded professors wouldn't stop screeching about it

>> No.14581006

>>14581002
Which uni?

>> No.14581008
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14581008

>>14580991
These two thinkers are not in conflict, in fact they flatter each other significantly. I might say that Dugin directly responds to 21st Century matters, while Schmitt can never do so... you are a pseud haha. Come on. But I would recommend everyone read Land and Sea by Schmitt, I assume it must have been a big influence on Dugin, who frequently uses the landpower/seapower dialectic in his lectures and writings on geopolitics.

http://www.4pt.su/en/content/eurasianism-geopolitics-land-and-sea-and-russian-theory-multipolarity

>> No.14581009

>>14581000
he's a russian neocon

>> No.14581013
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14581013

>>14580911
is he comparable to peterson in his attitude toward Christianity? does he believe that Jesus (pbuh) actually was killed and rose?

>> No.14581016

>>14580954
Correct; too busy reading things of value that don’t treat me like an ideology-hungry cog
Enjoy being a simp

>> No.14581023
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14581023

>>14581000
Neither philosemite nor antisemite
http://www.4pt.su/en/content/great-metaphysical-problem-and-tradition

>> No.14581024

>>14581009
Why would that influence his opinion on his metaphysical stance on Judaism. I mean the religion itself, not the state in the middle east.

>> No.14581029

If the answer is some Hegelian metaphysics of presence then it is impossible to be correct

>> No.14581033

>>14581016
COPE Lmfao... enjoy cooming

>> No.14581034

>>14581023
Based. He passed all of my preliminary tests so far. Will start investigating him deeper now.

>> No.14581038

>>14581002
lol, uni is such a fucking joke. i don't understand why anyone would pay money to go there.

>> No.14581044

>>14580851
>>14580851
Stop Russian shilling you coward, he's the typical faux intellect that uses citation pyrotechnics to create a false swirl of certainty. What a child.

>> No.14581045
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14581045

>>14581013
No, not similar. It appears to me that he does believe in this. Look into the essay linked under the following post for his Noetic look at Christianity
>>14580933

>> No.14581050
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14581050

I've been thinking of writing a book called Platonic Metaphysics of War.

What do you think?

>> No.14581051

>>14581044
Btw this is actually Russian propo. They're testing us lol. They've failed.

>> No.14581052

>>14581044
Hahaha okk enjoy cooming! Thank you! LMFAO

>> No.14581059

>>14581024
sorry, neocon is just zionist, they are interchangeable in the political lexicon. paleocons are cryptozionists, neocons are zionists, and conservatives is the umbrella term that houses them all. he is a hardline christian, so his stance on judaism would be identical to all other christians

>don't hurt them
>don't convert them
>allow them total freedom of commerce and social parasitism on your society
>scratch your head and wring your hands when this causes endless pogroms

he is modernity rejecting postmodernity by speaking in postmodern language. well it turns out that does nothing about jews since they are at the roots of modernism. the entire russian state and apparatus is israeli captured and controlled through chabbad.

>> No.14581063

>>14581013
Peterson's an atheist you retard.

>> No.14581068

>>14581033
>hehe well... c-coomer! He he
Jfc

>> No.14581069

>>14581050
sounds based and gay anon i think we will enjoy

>> No.14581074

>>14581063
i don't think he's denying that, as that's what not believing in christ's resurrection would logically entail...

>> No.14581082
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14581082

>> No.14581083

>>14581059
>the entire russian state and apparatus is israeli captured and controlled through chabbad.
Based. Converting to Judaism right now before the Fourth Reich is established and there's a huge influx of converts.

>> No.14581102
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14581102

>>14581069
>and gay
w-why?

I was going to write one essay on the demiurge' being a self disciplinary psychoplasmic -awareness-transcendence of the self "in" being the fundamental prioritisation expressed dualistic impulse of no necessary dual presence,

Have some ironic moments you know.

>> No.14581108

>>14581074
You first need to define believing before you divulge into Peterson's misunderstanding of Jung.

>> No.14581124

>>14581069
>>14581102
Oh and the ontological entailment of that(war) experience shewing the complete falsity of an ontic position to be present. And rather,degenerate.

>> No.14581175

>>14581082
>be russian elite
>have qt cat thing and paintings of Christ
>be american elite
>have paintings of scared children in their underwear tied up in a bath house and people eating eachother

>> No.14581202

>>14581008
>while Schmitt can never do so... you are a pseud haha.

yike...Schmitt has never been more relevant. Land and Sea, Nomos of the Earth, Crisis of Parliamentary Democracy...what is there left for Dugin to say? Nothing and you proved it yourself. Dugin is just a midwit rehash of Schmitt.

Time to stop posting "Doctor" Millerman.

>> No.14581213

>>14581000
too much of a cowardly opportunist to admit that he doesn't like them

>> No.14581218

>>14581202
not him, but do you actually think the ocean is relevant in current year?

>> No.14581224

>>14581218
not when china finishes building his trainset. but yes today it still is, a lot of oil, gas and commerce is handled oversea.

>> No.14581227

>>14581218
it definitely still is but if you've read Schmitt you'd know it's only half about that

read Nomos of the Earth

>> No.14581253

>>14581224
>>14581227
sounds gay. why would i want to go swim in the ocean like some faggot mermiad when i can just enjoy the land? what are you, team aqua or something? lmao, team magma a best.

>> No.14581270

>>14580851
>my version of globalism is better than yours
fuck this hack and anyone who takes him seriously

>> No.14581274

>>14581102
just kidding, sounds cool. said gay because metaphysics of war is already the title of something by evola so you would want to rephrase

>> No.14581276

>>14581202
if i was dr. millerman i would know more carl schmitt retard

>> No.14581290

>>14581270
??? his whole premise is to NOT have a globalist ideology.

>> No.14581299

>>14581270
Dugin's theory of multipolarity and his recent work in Noology = a more substantially antiglobalist philosophy than anything that comes before it

>> No.14581303

>>14581051
This, but I wouldn't call it a total failure

>> No.14581330

I haven’t read him and couldn’t really summarize philosophy, but what I do know is intriguing enough to start reading.

What is the opinion of Dugin in Russia?

>> No.14581352

>>14581330
Dugin is despised by russian progressives and tolerated by russian conservatives, although the majority opinion on him is somewhat fearful. the situation of his thought is pretermodern, and thus thinkers who are comfortable within modernity, and just look to agitate it toward the direction of more economic liberalism or more gender ideology can never really accept him because his thought is not constrained by any liberal or emancipatory paradigm

>> No.14581356

>>14580851
What is his opinion on Guenon (pbuh)? And vice-versa.

>> No.14581365
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14581365

>>14581274
I said, *Platonic* Metaphysics of War

>> No.14581370

>>14581356
He credits both Rene Guenon and Julius Evola for providing the essential foundations for traditionalism in Russia in the nineties. I would say he probably has a special affection for guenon, whose writings helped reinvigorate mysticism and traditionalism in Russia after the fall of the soviet union

>> No.14581371

>>14580976
well done anon

>> No.14581380

>>14581365
n-now you mention, i love it desu

>> No.14581398

>>14581371
i'm seriously working on this. there has to be some thing that God wrote into the code of the universe that makes atheists and redditors so cringe and everything He likes based, such as killing homosexuals and not giving a fuck about material possessions. i also believe that there must be a reason that certain types of people are so drawn to based things in and of themselves even if they don't do it for God, but just because they're based. then if i can make the connection between everything based and God, thus putting God at the peak of basedness, i could convert literally tens of people!

>> No.14581402

>>14581253
dugin is all about the land and very anti oceanic

>> No.14581407
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14581407

>>14581380
too late, i'm gonna kys and die a failed wriiter.

>> No.14581411

>>14581398
if i told you i cringed at this, would you believe me? and does my cringing at this have a place in your philosophy?

>> No.14581420

>>14581411
>if i told you i cringed at this, would you believe me?
It would be extremely painful.

>> No.14581421

>>14581290
>>14581299
eurasianism is just russian imperialism, low iq retards

>> No.14581422

>>14581407
if it's good start a /peer review/ thread w samples

>> No.14581431

>>14581421
if i, like you, thought globalism and empire were the same thing i don't know if i'd be able to get myself out of bed in the morning anon

>> No.14581433
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14581433

>tfw his entire political belief revolves around the fact that mongolia was lucky enough to have temujin born at just the right time so he could conquer as much territory as he did

>> No.14581441

>>14581421
are you getting payed to countersignal or do you do this for free

>> No.14581464
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14581464

>>14581411
if you call it cringe, you're validating the philosophy implicitly.

>> No.14581466

>>14581023

Shit I might be into this guy.

>> No.14581477

>>14581102
Gay in the based sense.

>> No.14581479

>>14581477
kek

>> No.14581485

>>14581466
the essay linked is crazy good ya

>> No.14581488
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14581488

Dugin has been translated by Richard Spencer's ex wife who has large breasts, so there must be something to it

>> No.14581489

>>14580851
This man, in my country he is nothing. Why Westerners like him? He is simpleton.

>> No.14581493

>>14581421
Once someone uses Imperialism in a negative sense I know it is good.

What does imperialism even mean? Does it just mean the defussion of a more powerful entity into the less? The cultural imperialism of china on Vietnam, the The graphical imperialism of Greece onto the etruscans and Romans?

To me Imperialism is a process rather than a big bad.

>> No.14581505
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14581505

>>14581489
you right

>> No.14581516

>>14581493
the empire is state and soul at their most organic. it is to be understood in CONTRAST with 'colonialism' in all its intercontinental mercantilist and capitalist aberrations.

>> No.14581520

>>14581488
welp, i'm sold

>> No.14581521

>>14581485
Its refression just seeing a critical lense on Judaism. NOt puulling punches, but not being a cringe lord about it to. I feel like I cant discuss it anywhere since its pretty polar in terms of discourse. You dont critique with normies, and you either go all or nothing with wizards.

>> No.14581541

>>14581516
Well, I think that is referring to something rather specific rather than imperialism proper. Is the capital system the defining feature? Either way, I see little wholistic difference between a roman or an American Imperialist. The latter just has a bad taste due to proximity and self evaluative nature.

>> No.14581551
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14581551

>>14581488
>1488

>> No.14581553

>>14581541
an oft-forgotten but key part of the difference is that the technological and spiritual character of these two empires taken in comparison are divided by an abyss of differences. even moreso when distinguishing between the american empire and the byzantine empire, or the holy roman empire

>> No.14581560

>>14581551
Anon stop we are on nofap

>> No.14581607

>>14581553
Maybe so, but what about the Mongel empire? It did not have a uniform spiritual basis as it devolped and was largely a conglomerate of powerful people makeing themselves moreso. Yes trade increased in them, but that is not a good or bad in itself just as trade increased under colonial rule. Again, these differences seem not so distinguished from the 1800’s euro model. Is mail no longer mail because the technology has changed to electronic?

>> No.14581619

>>14580894
Why the hell are you on the literature board with an opinion like that

>> No.14581786
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14581786

>>14581431
>>14581441
>>14581493
he's just a butthurt russian who's jealous of america and wants some eurasian abomination led by russians to replace america as a global superpower

>> No.14581807

>>14580851
Yeah, except he lives in Russia so, he’ll die with little impact

>> No.14581812

>>14580893
Lol is that backwoods Tennessee? Imagine thinking this was the future

>> No.14581814

>>14581786
>this nationalist is a nationalist
Got em? God only know what insipid leftoid point you’re trying to make.

>> No.14581820

>>14580911
Is there anything more idiotic than proselytizing Duginism wew lad

>> No.14581827

>>14580960
This

>> No.14581832

>>14581013
Have you read his book the art of sucking cock?

>> No.14581849

>>14581786
Pretty much this

>> No.14581864

>>14581820
You can’t defend this except through bourgeois sneezing and faggotry

>> No.14581924

>>14581814
wallahi you're dumb

>> No.14581934

>>14581924
Keep coping retard lefty

>> No.14581952

>>14581488
>1488
Wow
Also, she's not that hot. Richard Spencer is considered a subpar city slicker by most cosmopolitans, it's why he's still a white trash icon in America and not really a serious conservative. His wife is a 6/10 fat girl at best (if she looks only that good in photos I guarantee you she's ugly irl)

>> No.14581965

I prefer "philosophy" that doesn't reek of Putin's balls.

>> No.14581987

>>14581814
You know, I specifically said imperialism wasn’t an innate bad, just a natural process, usually leftists have quite a different opinion.

>> No.14582051

dugin is a psyop who works for the lord of the world. totally subversive and anti-traditionelle

>> No.14582117

>>14581352
Russia and Dugin are intriguing precisely because the Russian spirit and Dugin’s philosophy clearly stand out in a world dominated by the Western sea powers which are so rife with liberal dogma and decay that nowhere in sight is there a even a glimmer of hope. I understand that he’s been strongly influenced by Guenon, Evola, Schmitt and seemingly Spengler, which I can appreciate. On paper he’s almost the ideal anti-liberal brain child of the Conservative Revolution. However, I’m wary of anyone who considers themselves to a serious thinker, drawing from Guenon and Evola, while still offering any sort of political commentary. I’m also wary of Fourth Political Theory because, while I admittedly know very little about it, it seems something akin to anti-liberal NRx which is at least half nonsensical fantasy, in my opinion.

>> No.14582176

>>14581814
that this guy who is apparently "literally the future" is just another dreadfully boring and uninspiring nationalist nobody. Sad, really.

>> No.14582503

>>14582051
how does one come to this realization?

>> No.14582552
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14582552

>>14581488

>> No.14583100

>>14582503
https://www.gornahoor.net/?p=11333
https://www.gornahoor.net/?p=11340
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ivFvhMPfVHw
https://www.amazon.com.br/Dugin-Against-Traditionalist-Critique-Political/dp/1597312193

>> No.14583109

Dugin is only interesting because he talks about Old Belief Orthodox Christianity who literally no one seems to talk about. I wish he would write a book on them in English. Everyone always ignores Christian sects that are more complicated than Protestant/Catholic/Orthodox

>> No.14583121

>>14583109
yet he practices chaos magic at the same time. man is a liar

>> No.14583126

>>14583100
While his Gnosticism is regrettable, it doesn't nullify the whole of his project, for example his critique of liberalism.

>> No.14583131

>>14583121
I don't care about his personal life. I just find it interesting he talks about them when no one else gives them their proper place in theological history.

>> No.14583163

>>14583100
Charles Upton is a crypto-liberal and a a hack.

>> No.14583211

>>14583163
sup dugin. still butthurt?

>> No.14583232

You guys should consider visiting my Millerman (he's a dugin scholar) thread. It's nice and cozy and warm.
>>14574436

>> No.14583235

>>14580851
He's a retard with yellow fever. His Eurasian ethnostate is literally just him thinking with his dick

>> No.14583250

>>14583235
Nobody is thinking with their dick for the kind of asians in eastern russia

>> No.14583256

>150+ posts unironically discussing Dugin
Is this a fucking joke?

>> No.14583266

>>14583163
>Charles Upton is a crypto-liberal
How does one come to this realization?

>> No.14583304

>>14581023
>Christianity is the most cataphatic, gnostic and esoteric.
This notion was retroactively refuted by St. Guenon (pbuh).

>> No.14584396

>>14581952
low test

>> No.14584431

>>14580860
that's compatible with Dugin

>> No.14584438
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14584438

>>14580933
based Dugin and his rhizomatic thinking, he says Deleuze is satanism, but he is a Deleuzian at heart

>> No.14584447

>>14581082
how based is this guy?

>> No.14584448

>>14580960
>belief can be contagious.
This is the only reason I read political and philosophical nutjobs, so I can be ready if they go "viral" among the memelord herds of the internet. D&G talk about this in ATP in a sort of metaphorical way about mad sorcerers and packs. Good reason to keep your ear to the ground of extreme sub-cultures.

>> No.14584470

>>14583256
>russians don't take him seriously, so we shouldn't either
russians are retarded, dugin is actually good

>> No.14584533

>>14580851
his debate with henri-levy was pretty illuminating, not because they had an interesting discussion, but because it was pretty fun to watch a supposedly intelligent neoliberal philosopher argue like dumb shitlib from twitter
>oh mr dugin you like spengler right you like schmitt too yes
>well you know who liked them too? nazis! i think your a nazi racist antisemite mr dugin
>i'm jewish btw did i already mention that
plus all the drivel about the rainbow-colored cute neoliberal globalism that ain't causing no wars, no sir, it dindu nuthin, it's vevvy fluffy uwu your bad we good uwu there's no clash of civilizations but a clash of liberals and anti-liberals uwu
so fucking arrogant
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x70z5QWC9qs

>> No.14584574

>>14584533
it was also funny when Levy was grandstanding by naming well known Russian writers, as an example of the type of Russia he liked in opposition to Dugin bad type of Russian... too bad his first example was Solzhenitsyn who wrote an explicitly antisemitic book

it sounded like he was just saying well known Russian names and assuming they were liberal by default

>> No.14584671

>>14580851
Redpill me on this vodka nigga anons. Where do I start and do you have a greentext or something for a quick intro I can read right now?

>> No.14584675

>>14584574
Levy has always struck me as extremely stupid and overrated public intellectual. I think the last five to ten years has shown a lot (maybe all?) of public intellectuals aren't as good as the mainstream media and chattering classes make them out to be.

>> No.14584677

>>14584671
Listen to Matthew Raphael Johnson's talks on him to get a good introduction that is pro-Dugin. Pretty much all other academic sources on Dugin are anti-Dugin, so you can find plenty of that on your own.

>> No.14584742

>>14584671
Dugin's thought is rhizomatic, so there's not really 1 place to start, if you are more interested in geopolitics, get his geopolitical book, if politics his 4th political theory, if philosophy his heiddegger stuff, if anthropology and myth (kind of intersecting with philosophy) his Noomakhia books, if more pure anthropology his ethnosociology book

you can start anywhere and then expand to the other areas

>> No.14584787

>>14584677
>>14584742
Thanks fellas, will do.

>> No.14584824

Isn't Dugin in Russia such a meme that some question whether he might be just a really high effort troll?
http://en.kalitribune.com/idiots-guide-to-chaos-some-passages-of-dugins-4th-pt-left-untranslated-into-english/

>> No.14584834

>>14584742
Where does Political Platonism lie in this?

>> No.14584838

>>14584824
most of that seems to be pretty in line with Dugins assertion that there's a multiplicity of Daseins and his Heiddegerian standpoint from there

>> No.14584856

>>14584834
haven't read it so hard to tell, but for Dugin platonism is purely Apollonian, and it's equivalent to Traditionalism, for Dugin we have to go beyond that and to the terrain of the Dionysian as explored in the Dark Logos, and he sets a map of the whole terrain (Apolo-Dionysus-Cybele) on his Noomakhia series

>> No.14584860

>>14584856
>>14584834
forgot to mention, his move to the Dionysian is done through Heiddegger, just expanding of Heiddeger's thought by exploring the multiplicity of Daseins, rather than it being unique

>> No.14585201

>>14580851
>dugin
literally a satanist

>> No.14585413

>>14584447
significantly. look him up on youtube and read some of the linked essays

>> No.14585433

>>14584671
Start: YouTube, you'll probably read him in translation so it's good to hear how he describes his project in his own words. Look up his criticism on Liberalism, Transhumanism, and how he describes why he developed the Fourth Political Theory.
Next: Look at 4pt.su and read anything on the fourth political theory (make sure it's by alex) and also look at his posts about the "world of things" and ESPECIALLY the more recent stuff on what he calls Necro-Ontology.
Finally: Of course, look into either The Fourth Political Theory, Political Platonism, anything you can get your hands on.

>> No.14585556

>>14580851
He would have to be anti industrial in order to face liberalism and restore any semblance of the community and extended family.

>> No.14585619

>>14585556
I think he criticized Galileo Galilei for taking science too far, so yeah, lol.

>> No.14585628

>>14585201
I thought he was Orthodox

>> No.14585633

>>14585628
he is, anon is doing defamation

>> No.14585680

>>14584448
Noooooooooo fascism could arise at any moment from any minor place. Must set up a militarised psychological defense network to wage preventive war on the smallest fascist exclave!
Noooooooooooo

>> No.14585710

>>14585556
he is against washing machines
>“…one will be able to come to the conclusion that, in general, human life is possible, and perhaps even has the potential to be entirely happy, without the washing machine.
>But for a liberal society, this is a terrifying thing, almost sacrilege. We can understand everything, but life without the washing machine? That’s already a really unscientific saying: life without the washing machine is impossible. There is no such thing. Life is the washing machine. In this resides the effect of the force of the liberal argument, which takes on a totalitarian character. There is always an element of some kind of constraint in liberation — this is the paradox of freedom. ”

>> No.14585721

to all budding and proto-fasc in the thread:
There is a freedom greater than submission to your Big Fasci Father. It's just.. freedom. Actual freedom. Freedom from the banks, international corporate kleptocracy, and bullshit televised "representative" democracy.
We can be free.

>> No.14585724

>>14585628
>>14585633
he is ordodogs, but he has his occultist past, it's not clear if he has arrived to his orthodoxy in a straight path or though a different path

>> No.14585738

>>14585721
who is the subject of this freedom? and free to do what?

>> No.14585763

>>14585738
The subject is the individual. His freedom means not-subjugation, self-determination.

>> No.14585764

>>14585724
Interdasting. Well wouldn’t be the first dude to come to Orthodoxy that way. The late Father Seraphim Rose claimed to find his love for Orthodoxy through Guenon, among others

>> No.14585805

>>14585763
he argues against this conception of subject as an rootless individual as a liberal conception that has to be fought against, not only that, but he argues that liberalism from its own internal logic has already moved forward from this conception of the subject to destroy all hierarchy and verticality, it is not enough anymore with destroying all hierarchy in society and norms, buy also inside the body, to fragment the individual, to move from the individual to the dividual
>So that is as well, dissipation of the personality with avatars, with names in the networks. We could change the gender, change the age, and everything, and personality. We could dissipate ourselves. And that is not only roles, because the man in sociology is the assembly of the roles. These social roles and relational games are dissipated and distributed through the network and there are new kind of rhizomatic. Rhizome in Greek is the root, but not the root of the plant, but the root as potato or mushroom. They are expanding not in the vertical but in the horizontal situation. And that is a kind of postmodern society that is the next step. That is not individual but dividual in some way. So there is a new stage of immanentism and materialism. It is not the materialism of the things. It is materialism of something that is below the things, beneath the things. Rene Guenon called that ‘infra-corporeal world’ and this ‘infra-corporeal world’ was peopled in the traditional religious understanding by purely underground beings. The idea to turn the man in the assembly of the daemons. That is the idea of Deleuze. And to open the possibility of the material spirit living through us and in us to reveal themselves and behave themselves freely as a kind of parliament of organs or desires and the machines of desires distributed through the network. This is a kind of destruction of any vertical forms including in the early liberal or capitalist version. Here there is a very thin change from classical liberalism (first political theory) in post-liberalism. That is the mixture between communism, or Marxism, not defending proletarian or the class struggle but defending materialism and egalitarianism united with liberalism. So postmodernism is a kind of cultural Marxism mixed with the liberalism (left liberalism). That is a new version. Old liberalism operated, dealed with the individual. And now that is dividual that is coming.

>> No.14585810

>>14585805
>>14585763
this is also expanded on this video, but listening to Dugin in english is kind of annoying
https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=5&v=HO3kSRKFtWg&feature=emb_title

>> No.14585828

>>14580851
Oswald Spengler once wrote that the next 1000 years will belong to Russia and Russian Orthodoxy.

The Russian soul is
>Theocratic and hierarchic
>The State form is grown from the mir peasant commune, emphasizing brotherhood and communal ownership of things
>It is anti technology
>Sees itself spreading horizontally across the Earth, as if the Earth itself is the Earth itself is God's gift to the Russian people, something different from Western colonialism or imperialism
>Russia is by nature anti Western
All these things are in Dugin from what I see

Note how in the last 100 years Russia is the only country that still seems to be growing culturally, that sees itself having a goal to work towards: China is stuck in Confucian Marxism, the West is fighting to uphold a 200 year old political ideology that is gradually disintegrating, and India doesn't know what the fuck is going on. And just recently we have Putin closing down the Russian government and taking steps to ensure the future of Russia is once again autocratic, Tsarist: theocratic.

Something like the 4PT is impossible for any other country on Earth right now, they're all dead set in their ancient ways. If an American or European came up with the 4PT he would be ignored or ostracized. But through Dugin the Russians have come up with something new. This is why the future is not Chinese, it is Russian.

>> No.14585897

>>14585710
Based. Fuck washing machines and fuck niggers.

>> No.14585904

>>14585763
>not-subjugation
This is pure cringe though. The only legitimate path is subjugating oneself to God.

>> No.14585972

>>14585828
Being anti tech would make Russia vulnerable to Western powers like the USA unfortunately. And don't put too much faith in Putin who just made Russia a oligarchic state not unlike the US. Saudi Arabia is more like what you're describing.

>> No.14586001

>>14585805
Well, I wasn't arguing for a fundamentally individualistic social order, but the only way to conceptualize freedom sensibly is at the individual level.
And if we are arguing for reasonably similar things, a more collective way of life if compared to the present, our utterly atomized condition, then I don't oppose myself to any of the more superficial aspects of your project (#tradwife, christianism, homophobia, etc), ideally every community would have to room in which to live out their project.
What I AM talking about is the authoritarianism side of things. The concentration of power. Coercion and violence against people who don't agree to this project. This is harmful and stupid, it cannot be tolerated.
Power corrupts. The power of life and death over others, especially under such vague guideline as "tradition", "family values", or the christian bible...

And is your greentext from a bad translation or is that how he actually writes?

>>14585904
I think that's fine. You should have complete freedom to subjugate yourself to your god. That is very different from subjugating OTHERS to your god. I'm talking about freedom among men.

>> No.14586003
File: 155 KB, 662x1000, putinvsputin-e1458817851733.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14586003

>>14585972
Dugin has a book discussing the duality of Putin, he also discusses on some other parts how you have to use technology to fight technology, but acknowledges that there's no such thing as neutral use of technology and there's always a danger of losing oneself on that use

>> No.14586012

>>14584856
>haven't read it so hard to tell, but for Dugin platonism is purely Apollonian, and it's equivalent to Traditionalism, for Dugin we have to go beyond that and to the terrain of the Dionysian as explored in the Dark Logos, and he sets a map of the whole terrain (Apolo-Dionysus-Cybele) on his Noomakhia series
Wow, sounds incredibly interesting.

I've thought very similar things.

>>14584860
>the multiplicity of Daseins, rather than it being unique
Could you extrapolate on this anon?

>> No.14586015

>>14586001
>What I AM talking about is the authoritarianism side of things. The concentration of power. Coercion and violence against people who don't agree to this project. This is harmful and stupid, it cannot be tolerated.
if you argue for this on a global level, you are already inside liberal totalitarianism

>> No.14586026

>>14586001
>And is your greentext from a bad translation or is that how he actually writes?
it's a transcript from a lecture, his english is not great

>> No.14586042

>>14586015
It's all about transition. The power structures of today must be dismantled carefully, but steadily. I hear this kind of thing a lot because the only way people can envision social change today is big flashy revolutions. I like to imagine a more measured "phasing out" of the status quo

>> No.14586069

>>14586012
>>Could you extrapolate on this anon?
>Secondly, between all the different criteria for “culture” and intellectual expression, we primarily aspire to emphasize and take into consideration the existential dimension. Such a conceptualization is founded on the theory of the plurality of Daseins which we have outlined in our other works, first and foremost those dealing with Martin Heidegger [10]. This means that we believe that the basic, phenomenological level of the “thinking presence” of man in the world differs in its deepest roots, and this difference is the foundation upon which the structures of culture, society, philosophy, politics, knowledge, science, and art are built. We consider the Dasein of each civilization, in its approach to death, to be unique, and it is this existential plurality that determines differences in secondary significations and configurations.
>Dasein is the root structure of man’s presence in the world, the fundamental backdrop of his existence. Although Heidegger himself, as befits a true European, was ethnocentric and believed the fate of Western European civilization to be the fate of all of humanity and the European Logos to be the universal Logos, we can nevertheless attempt to isolate Heidegger’s deep insight into the essence of the existential roots of man, taken as “thinking presence” (Dasein), from such claims to universality. In such a case, we acquire the concept of the plurality of Daseins as several existential poles corresponding to the nomenclature of civilizations. Consequently, we have the following picture:
>I. At the heart of every civilization lies a special “thinking presence”, Dasein.
>II. This “thinking presence”, Dasein, determines the structure of a given civilization’s Logos, that is to say it lies at the basis of the metaphysics which can subsequently be built upon the root structure of the Dasein.
>III. The “thinking presence” of Dasein is responsible for both the basic structure of the Logos that is a result of its unfolding as well as this Logos’ transformation over the course of the whole cycle of a civilization’s historical being. We can see this in Heidegger’s analysis of the onto-history, Seynsgeschichte, of Western civilization, as well as in Henry Corbin’s concept of the historial [11].
>IV. The plurality of “thinking presences” can be postulated both outside of a concrete civilization (as an other Dasein), as well as, with certain nuances, within it. Accordingly, in Mediterranean civilization, Hellenic, Roman, as well as Egyptian, Semitic, Chaldean, and Anatolian poles were all present, as are Germanic, Celtic, Latin, and other poles present within European civilization. Each of these poles can be analyzed on the basis of its existentials.
https://eurasianist-archive.com/2019/06/20/noomakhia-geosophy-the-horizons-of-cultures-the-geography-of-logoi/

>> No.14586079

Isn't he just larping being a 19th century slavophile?

>> No.14586083

>>14586042
>This is the advanced interpretation of open society of Soros. According to Negarestani, the “open society” is a “butchered society”. It is like a chicken which is gutted for being cooked. This “gutted chicken” is humanity being prepared for the gods of plague in the post-modern era. These plague gods are specific post-human or sub-human entities. Negarestani compares them to Lovecraft’s “idiot gods” in the likes of Nyarlathotep, a figure from one of his dark fantasies.
http://4pt.su/en/content/radical-object-necro-ontology-dark-enlightenment-negarestanis-philosophy

>> No.14586112

>>14586042
>It's all about transition.
Sounds gay anon...

>> No.14586138

>>14580851
Who is his favorite fiction author?

>> No.14586141

>>14586112
gender accelerationism

>> No.14586142

>>14586069
Incredibly interesting.

Will read Dugin. But before or after Schmitt?

>> No.14586219

>>14586083
no authority doesn't mean no coordination. It actually means superior coordination and resilience. Centralized systems are more fragile.
When the "plague gods" come they'll want a nice authoritarian system in place with very obedient good boys ready to accept the new order.

>> No.14586244

>>14586079
no one even told you this you just don't know what you're talking about but you're trying to LARP like someone gave you the inside scoop on why he's gay.... LMAO bro come on you can do better than this

>> No.14586248

>>14586142
alongside

>> No.14586250
File: 166 KB, 547x836, Dugin-intro.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14586250

>>14580851
Dugin is a mentally ill fag with a yellow fever, being the more extreme version of E. Michael Jones except the latter just straightout ignores race.
He essentially wants mongrelize Russia or atleast what's left of it after the fall of the Soviet Union.

And no, his Orthodox faith doesn't redeem him for that.

>> No.14586251

>>14580851
ITT Americans and western Europeans who have never been to Russia, Central Asia or China larping as orientalist bootlickers. Nobody in Russia even cares about Dugin and the Russian government thinks about him as a useful idiot just like they use nationalist parties abroad but suppress the nationalist movement in Russia itself.

>> No.14586268

>>14586251
Sadly true, Putin's quite aware that a genuine nationalist movement would stand in the way of his neo-empire. At this point literally every world government needs to be disposed of.

>> No.14586271

>>14586250
>>14586251
Uh-oh, here come the Russian liberal nationalists! That's the type of people that supported Ukraine in Russian-Ukrainian war because Ukrainians are supposedly more white and european than asiatic mongoloid Russians. Nobody in Russia takes them seriously either.

>> No.14586284

>>14586250
Materialist brainlet detected.

>> No.14586303

>>14586250
Theories of race are grossly inadequate for explaining the currents of world history. Theories that belong in the 19th century like Marxist economics.

>> No.14586327

>>14586250
>mongrelize Russia
lmfao. have you been outside? it doesn't need to be mongrelized any further, we've reached the limit already. you can cry about that or try finding the root cause of this mongrelization instead of mistaking it itself for the cause.

>> No.14586343

>>14586250
Sorry about you're a pseud and you don't know what you're talking about (and you're an unread racist) anon

>> No.14586359

>>14586343
not him but please show us how well read you are, Mr. Dugin acolyte. I'm curious as to how much of the globe that you claim to understand that you've actually experienced first hand instead of just reading about (assuming you've read anything worthwhile and not half-baked orientalist garbage like Eurasianism).

>> No.14586385
File: 141 KB, 1026x1024, VERGIL LAUGHS.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14586385

>>14586271
>liberal
>nationalist
>in the same sentence

>> No.14586405

>>14586327
"...Or atleast what's left of it..."
Learn to read you troglodyte. Nobody denies that Russia is the epitome of the 56% meme, doesn't mean that we need to fuck it up to an even bigger degree than it already is.

>> No.14586407
File: 765 KB, 1920x1278, 1579722705734.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14586407

>>14586385
They're precisely of the same nature. Read René Guénon (pbuh).

>> No.14586409

>>14584438
Deleuze was such a hunk, especially when he had a full head of hair

>> No.14586419

>>14586405
"... you can cry about that or try finding the root cause of this mongrelization instead of mistaking it itself for the cause."
Learn to read you troglodyte.

>> No.14586425

>>14586343
>thinks races do not exist and is a taboo subject to talk about, even though literally everyone accepted it as a fact of life until 20th century came around.

>> No.14586426
File: 738 KB, 920x632, 6250e5dee3b8d23a71650808f2575089.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14586426

>>14586271
Uh-oh, here comes the Russian vatnik bootlickers! That's the type of people that watch Russian state TV and drink vodka on their pension that is increasingly worth less and less as the ruble continues to stagnate and Russia shrinks in on itself. At least we stuck it to those degenerate westerners right!? Not easy being the bastion of holy Orthodox civilization.

>> No.14586433

>>14586359
>mentally ill fag
impressive analysis niggaa..!
>the more extreme version of E. Michael Jones except the latter just straightout ignores race.
Imagine thinking "extreme" is a legitimate descriptor, and that jones ignores race (saying something you disagree with isn't ignoring it. even if you think it's wrong, retard)
>He essentially wants mongrelize Russia or atleast what's left of it
oh damn well as long as that's what he ESSENTIALLY wants to do i guess this isn't a retarded and completely insubstantial (unread, racist etc.) non sequitur)
>I'm curious as to how much of the globe that you claim to understand that you've actually experienced
kill yourself man hahahaha

>> No.14586441

>>14586426
What is this image supposed to convey? Are you denying the Liberal Right of this man (or woman) to excercise his Freedom to rummage through piles of trash in search of Free Food?

>> No.14586447

>>14586433
I'm not that guy you were responding to, and you didn't answer my questions. What have you read, where have you been, where are you from. These are relevant to whether you have any right to claim to know anything about this or whether you're just a LARPing American pretending to know anything about Russia. I don't think race is a valid category of analysis either, I'm simply challenging you to expound on your worldview, which you seem incapable of doing. Retard.

>> No.14586449
File: 2.75 MB, 1848x5883, 1548450821779.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14586449

>>14586407

OK guenonfag.

>> No.14586451

>>14586425
if you think pseudointellectual xenophobic hysteria is the only non-shitlib understanding of the differences between peoples and cultures you should probably read a little bit more before posting on the /lit/ board, try reading Slut Blavatsky and posting on /x/ about it

>> No.14586455

>>14586441
I'm trying to show decadent westerners what sacred slavic orthodox civilization looks like, what's your problem?

>> No.14586460
File: 210 KB, 1066x1700, depositphotos_295326684-stock-photo-cercopithecus-ascanius-or-redtail-monkey.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14586460

>>14586407
Based!

>> No.14586467

>>14586419
Literally not the point you troglodyte.

>> No.14586469

>>14586455
No one has any delusions about how much of the world is fallen (we know that all of it is). We just aren't liberals. Can you get that through your head copetard? lmao

>> No.14586479
File: 129 KB, 506x696, cc3b5359973eef154f465c3210fbad64.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14586479

>>14586455
>what sacred slavic orthodox civilization looks like
but you posted a picture of what western degenerative modernization leads to. here, i'll help you out with how an actual slavic traditional order looks like.

>> No.14586482

>>14586469
Are you from a liberal democracy? Have you ever lived outside one? Or are you just a orientalist LARPer who looks to people like Dugin and his obscurantist ideas as a way out of your personal failure and crisis of meaning and to spite your society.

>> No.14586492

>>14586482
you didn't read what i said. we don't idealize any realm. we just aren't liberals. now answer my question: can you get this through your head without coping with nonsense and insults

>> No.14586494

>>14586284
>Knowing that different races exist and that they significantly contribute to how a person thinks and lives his life is materialist.

Truly an intellectual take.

>> No.14586504

>>14586494
>he's gay

>> No.14586507

>>14586492
Yes you said you're *not* a liberal, I understand that. I'm not sure who the we is that you are referring to. So I'm asking you, why do you feel that way? And have you ever experienced a non-liberal society firsthand or are you LARPing self hating westerner?

>> No.14586511
File: 167 KB, 540x311, 1932b0de160b6667acafabd610dff4ef.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14586511

>>14580851
Is Mr. Dugin as redpilled on NASA as Guenon was?

>> No.14586521

>>14586507
instead of dancing around the subject just make your defense of liberalism. I am a westerner who has experienced non-liberal non-western societies. I don't want a non-western west, I want a western non-liberalism

>> No.14586529

>>14586511
implicitly moreso

>> No.14586540

>>14586521
ok a LARPer, just what I thought. My defense of liberalism would be that liberal notions of public sphere and speech protections are what is allowing us to have this retarded discussion in the first place, do you think people in Russia or Eurasia are having hot intellectual debates about these topics? No, people there are more concerned with their immediate survival and monetary success than any of this bullshit, that's why I find it so absurd when westerners look to Russian or Chinese culture as some kind of salvation, it shows their naivete and lack of experience. I'm personally not from a liberal state originally so I don't take it for granted like yourself.

>> No.14586552
File: 84 KB, 785x1000, EHYZuMbVUAAcwHh.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14586552

>>14586451
"pseudointellectual xenophobic hysteria"
>Everything that doesn't conform to my wishful thinking and bias in the current state of the Overton Window is pseudointellectual and raycist!
"is the only non-shitlib understanding"
>thinks only liberals care about race
"differences between peoples and cultures"
>blood and soil you Duginnigger, a principle that holds true for literally all people and cultures out there other than pseudointellectual liberals who are mostly white... How ironic that I, according to you, must be a liberal.

>> No.14586558
File: 299 KB, 600x386, file.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14586558

>>14586426
You call yourself a nationalist but you resent your people, your culture and your faith. You cower before Europeans but hate feminists and commies for they are 'ruining Western civilization'. What you fail to realize is that liberal individualistic values Europeans feed you are the.root of degradation. The poison that you wish to bring to your homeland would destroy your nation while you would be enjoying your bikeways and Wagner concertos and the consequences will fall on your head as you become a miserable old man in a country that doesn't belong to you anymore.

>> No.14586568

>>14586552
you haven't read anything, you don't belong here, you have zero reading comprehension, and on top of it all you're doing is bumping my thread. I hope you're having fun, but man I hope you know I'm having more fun than you are.

>>14586540
Nxggaaaiga you sound smart as shit!

>> No.14586573

>>14583109
Old Believers are really interesting but you won't find many of them in the west so it doesn't surprise me materials about them is scarce.

>> No.14586585

@14586552
>Overton Window
>onionsjack
>twitter filename
>incorrect use of the quotation function
>>>/r/eddit/.

>> No.14586607
File: 82 KB, 780x478, 1459048431612.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14586607

>>14586343
>you're an unread racist
Retroactively refuted by Sir Richard Dawkins.

>> No.14586611

>>14586540
>Compares a literal corrupt oligarchy and dictatorship with right-wing ideology.
Nigger Europe and America are turning into USSR/Weimar Republic as we speak, with more and more censorship coming along as the days go by, trannies, normalization of slutty behaviour, etc.

/lit/ is infested with all of these pseudointellectual fags who think having a contrasting opinion to anything makes them look smart.

>> No.14586619

>>14586607
dont worry i bought his analmold fleshlight, im eating it out like a pussy and jacking off

>> No.14586630
File: 94 KB, 601x508, 2891fg.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14586630

>>14586568
Literal cope

>> No.14586643

>>14586585
>b-believe me because I say so!!!!

>> No.14586644

>>14586611
lmao the pot calling the kettle black. I'm simply trying to problematize your black and white worldview that clearly is the result of spending too much time online and growing up overly privileged with little to no exposure to the global east and south. Also I didn't say anything about right-wing ideology, and Dugin isn't even right wing but your classic third positionist obscurantist retard whose main fanbase is western larpers like yourself.

>> No.14586660

>>14586568
>Nxggaaaiga you sound smart as shit!
no u

>> No.14586675

>>14586660
desu

>> No.14586692

>>14586644
Explain this. Who is being tricked, by what, and why? I'm willing to hear it out, you just need to say something more interesting than "the landmass you shit on is gay therefore u must be gay or you're a pseud"

>> No.14586727

>>14586607
Fake quote, btw.

>> No.14586744

>>14580851
>muh America le Devil
>mother Russia gewd

So profound . . . yawn

>> No.14586747

>>14586644

I literally grew up, while being poor, in one of the most dispriveledged "European" countries in the world, i. e. Russia. The only type of person that could come out with such a retarded take such as yours is a priveledged liberal who ironically thinks that the current state of the West doesn't mirror the 30ies and that according to him all is fine and dandy while his entire country is crumbling thanks to the destruction of tradition, race and nuclear family.
Ironic that I must be the one looking at it in black-or-white when you retards are cheering for either Republicans to Liberals while both of them support immigration and among other things cultural destruction of your country.

Have fun in being proven wrong once your kids will be enriched, retard.

>> No.14586750

>>14586630
damn is that a wojak haha? u cucked me on this one lmao nice... haha crying wojak.. this shit funny

>> No.14586759

>>14586747
feeling sorry for yourself isn't an argument. I am sorry for Russia's suffering under modernity and under the liberal Faggot World Order.. this is what we oppose!!!

>> No.14586772

>>14586692
He's a retard who thinks that anything that has to do with race and nationalism is either for skinheads or rednecks while praising Guenon just because of his overall controversial views. Imagine a person being so unaware of the current socio-cultural state of the West to come up with that kind of brainlet take, that's him.

>> No.14586783

>>14586747
>destruction of tradition, race and nuclear family.
>nuclear family
>traditional and not a modern western protestant phenomenon

You just went full retard. Also because you think liberalism and speech protections are a waste of time I would like for you to please stop using those rights and keep quiet, also there's cheap air tickets to China right now why don't you go give living over there a shot? To escape all those things you were talking about, China definitely is a a social paradise without massive social and economic externalities bearing down on it. They would love to have you anon, you seem like a really bright fellow who hasn't internalized western individualism so hard that he thinks his viewpoints are profound, definitely not.

>> No.14586786

>>14586772
hang on... im having a premonition... this was posted from a public library... by a 39 year old tranny chaser...

>> No.14586787

>>14586750
>hahahaha let me cope harder because contradicting the teachings of Guenon (pbuh) is a sin that won't let me get my 72 virgins.

>> No.14586802

>>14580893
>Our Traditionalist model sees the world as opened from the bottom. Guénon had the idea that the society of Tradition is the opening of the world egg from above, where the spirit of the transcendental principle penetrates the world. In the era of materialism and modernity, the world egg is closed to these energies. Then the world egg is open to the bottom, and the world is penetrated by the Gogs and Magogs, the sub-corporeal entities which create the civilization of the Antichrist. According to Guénon, the opening of the world egg from the bottom is the final stage of the cycle. Thusly also thought Evola, Russian Orthodox eschatologists, and the Elders - that the coming of the Antichrist is the demonic invasion of the world. This is the position of Traditionalists.
People take this "Dugen" seriously. But how? But why do people actually accept traditionalist gibberish like this?
It all starts with such people engaging with our extremely complex civilization, and all it's various big businesses, castle in the sky disciplines, advanced games of fashion, absurd specialization and intricacy, and technology manufacturing, and feeling anxious about their small influence over things due to globalization, and them finding no benefit in such globalization due to low intelligence, decide to resentfully trash it.
So, this all first stems from decadence in their specific millieu. Since they cannot except that they are responsible for their lack of influence and failure, they project the blame outwards, into their millieu. Thus, the traditionalist.
Castigating the millieu, they have to adopt either a romanticization of the past or an idealization of nature. The traditionalist then studies a few falsified reconstructions of past cultures, until they consider themselves an "expert" on it's "history", trying to absorb them, and play them against the current one, not with an eye of enlargening, complexifying, and extremifying the current civilization, but instead by simplifying and barbarizing it into a past form, which allows the traditionalist maggot to more easily influence their environment.

This guy and Bronze Age Pervert should have a chat.

>> No.14586809

>>14586783
>I don't want my country to adopt Western liberal values
>Wow, you should try living in China then!
Based retard.

>> No.14586810

>>14586759
I don't feel sorry I'm just trying to tell him that he's an absolute libshit retard. The point being is that he can't cry to me about muh priveledge when I grew up in a shithole of a country. That's all there is to it.

>> No.14586816

>>14586786
Excellent argument right there!

>> No.14586819

>>14586809
what? I didn't say I didn't want my country to adopt western liberal values and I was talking to a westerner, so I as a non-westerner originally am telling him if he hates the west so much he can leave!!

>> No.14586822

>>14586810
i understand what you're saying here, i just wish you could take a moment and empathize with people of the West, who are at the command seat of the Faggot World Order and but are not allowed to change course, because if we do we are "LARPers"

>> No.14586825

>>14586819
to continue, maybe once he's actually exposed to more of the world he will realize all his personal projections and insecurities about the world don't amount to anything more than a way to rationalize why he is a failure and ultimately unhappy.

>> No.14586829

>>14586783
>Free speech is a waste of time
Where did I state that? Having a shizoid moment there my friend?

>> No.14586834

>>14586829
you said you don't support liberalism. Have fun explaining to me how you can have freedom of speech without liberalism. I'll wait.

>> No.14586843

>>14581488
based digits, anon

>> No.14586846

>>14586834
hopefully we wont.. and there will no longer be pedophilia on television

>> No.14586854

>>14586846
contradicting yourself now, this is getting fun :) I will say the only good argument I've seen against liberalism in this whole thread is sheer retardation of the western dugin larpers in here, clearly the western education system failed you badly

>> No.14586859

>>14586834
1920-50’s even going on to 2000 in some respects, the 1800’s, Japan, ancient Athens. Having a strong cultural ideal that influences implicitly, but allows for explicit speak under a decent amount of pressure.

>> No.14586864

>>14586819
I literally told you that I'm a non-Westerner, shizo. Nobody considers Russia to be a Western country unless you only include Saint Petersburg and Moscow in there, I have more experience than you when it comes to living in multiracial societies such as Russia and these countries inevitably experience a cultural degradation after substantual exposure to them. Either one culture takes over the original culture or both original cultures cease to exist.

>> No.14586867

>>14586859
I don't think you know what liberalism means in this context anon.

>> No.14586871

>>14586822
You're right bro

>> No.14586876

>>14586864
>I literally told you that I'm a non-Westerner, shizo.
you literally said "I am a westerner who has experienced non-liberal non-western societies"

and speak for yourself in terms of your experience faggot

>> No.14586878

>>14586871
ily... come to dallas

>> No.14586896

>>14586834
>only under the current state of liberalism full of degenerates, transexuals, pedophiles, race mixers can we possibly have any form of free speech or democracy.
God I LOVE being an absolutist twitter tranny!

>> No.14586897

>>14586822
it's not about that you're not allowed to change course, it's that the west needs to come up with its own solution or alternative to globalized liberalism instead of looking to orientalist hacks like Dugin or other cultures that you clearly don't grasp for solutions. That's the way out of the insecure faggot who can only appropriate from others and not create for himself. Looking to something like Eurasianism will do nothing to help the west with its problems. That's the only point I and others are trying to make in this thread. I mean it is a waste of time to debate such retards but you tend to take it more personally if you've actually lived in the shitholes they're idolizing out of ignorance.

>> No.14586902

>>14586896
>degenerates, transexuals, pedophiles, race mixers
project your sexual insecurity harder white boi, cry white boi cry

>> No.14586915
File: 593 KB, 1080x2220, Screenshot_20200122-221249_Omnichan.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14586915

>>14586876
It wasn't me who said it, faggot

>> No.14586927

>>14586902
Hello, Eurasiantiger, lost your way or something?

>> No.14586930

>>14586915
>phone posting

>> No.14586932

>>14586897
man, dugin's whole thing is telling the west to look within its culture to find its own unique way out. the 5th or so reply to this thread is about Thoreau. You probably don't know who that is but he's from Massachusetts

>> No.14586934

>59 posters
Get back on your meds, Guenonfag.

>> No.14586937

>>14586897
This

>> No.14586941

>>14586937
>>14586932
>this

>> No.14586947

>>14586930
>I-I have no argument, w-what should I tell him?!

>> No.14586955

>>14586947
oh wow you butted into a conversation with another poster so I mixed you up with them, so therefore my whole argument is invalidated

>> No.14586985

>>14586955
It isn't my problem, I'm not the one throwing ad hominems around until you fags started getting butthurt for no good reason. Unless that other poster triggered you in which case, I won't blame you.

>> No.14587090

>>14586985
fair play I'm honestly confused as hell as to how many people I'm arguing with at this point

>> No.14587112

>>14587090
Well I guess its just best for all of us to calm down then...

>> No.14587166

>>14580851
Shu up Alexandra

>> No.14587250

>>14586069
This is extremely entry-level. What he is actually saying is that each civilization has a fundamental substratum of dealing with the world. When this fundamental level starts unpacking itself through time, a logical order that is an expression of this substratum emerges. Obviously, because cultures interact, all of these localized poles are influenced by those who are at their border ( both geographically and culturally) and vice-versa. If you translate his needless verbosity into clear prose you can figure out that this is the type of thought even smarter high-school kids interested in history would have. What's new here?

>> No.14587255

>>14580851
Fuck off. Read the debate he had with Olavo de Carvalho (it became a book) — Olavo completely destroyed him. Besides, Dugin’s family has always worked for the KGB (look this up) and continues to work for them, even if they changed their name to FSB.

You are literally being used by the FSB to expand Euroasianism and achieve their political goals. All of that, because they quote Guenon, Evola and some other fucking esoteric writer.

>> No.14587315
File: 58 KB, 1200x800, mm.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14587315

>>14580893
>>14580917
>>14581812
>>14586802
damn, call Moldbug now, we need reinforcements

>> No.14587317

>>14586783
>>nuclear family
>>traditional and not a modern western protestant phenomenon
Please explain how the nuclear family is not deeply traditional and beneficial for maximum happiness in society?

>> No.14587818
File: 312 KB, 389x386, 1558024790645.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14587818

>>14587317
>maximum happiness
Hylic detected.

>> No.14587858

>>14581175
>>be american elite
>>have paintings of scared children in their underwear tied up in a bath house and people eating eachother
wat

>> No.14588139
File: 79 KB, 945x1360, download.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14588139

>>liberal
>>nationalist
>>in the same sentence

If you don't think liberal nationalism or nationalist liberalism exists you need
to level up your international relations knowledge.

>> No.14588254

>>14583100
>Charles Upton
>''muslim'' who lived in california
>doesn't wear based traditional muslim clothing
Can a non-anglo confirm his thought? I'm extremely wary of trusting americans.

>> No.14588349

>>14586802
>reductionist nonsense that fundamentally disallows the existence of other worldviews and worldorders except your own unexamined one

>> No.14588380

>>14586772
This

>> No.14588535

>>14586802
Pretty much my view. People that romanticize the past feel either they don't have it in them or don't have the right to change the future.

>> No.14588616

>>14581059
>>14581083
Chabad is also the sect of the American Trump faction right?

>> No.14588679

>>14588535
That really isn't what they are saying at all.

You didn't come to any "rational" conclusions about your values. They are imprinted in you genetically and to a lesser extent culturally. Your brain is hardwired to protect infants and what not.

The conservative philosophers that you don't understand like Dugin are not talking about tradition in the sense that you understand it, as if some sort of simple historical sequence that can be rationally accepted or discarded. Rather, they are dealing with the past in an evolutionary and biodiverse sense, understanding how different environments have led to different genetic predispositions, different fundamentally imprinted biases, and so on.

This is basically incomprehensible to the western "enlightened" mind which has been turned into a grey, soulless consumer.

>> No.14588762

>>14588679
>You didn't come to any "rational" conclusions about your values. They are imprinted in you genetically and to a lesser extent culturally. Your brain is hardwired to protect infants and what not.
This is nonsense and just shows how historically illiterate and willfully ignorant right wingers are. The Romans literally left babies they didn't want to die in the street. The entire concept of the family and by extension the State itself which in every culture is always derived from the structure of the family, was understood differently in Greece and Rome. There was no cult of the child like there is in Western civilization. Likewise the nuclear family, a family based on bloodline and direct continuation, is a Western ideal. The Roman family was structured pretty much exactly like the modern mafia, simultaneously disconnected and communal, and it is no coincidence that the mafia grew out of Italy.

Saying we are hardwired to protect infants shows you are still wearing your Western horseblinders. The child is the single most sacred thing in our civilization going back as far as the cult of the mother Mary and the child in the middle ages, because the child signifies continuation and the ideal Western family. But this is not true of every civilization. You can't even imagine a way of life other than your own idealized version of it. The history of man is the history of ideas and man's vivid imagination. Genetic and otherwise materialist nonsense explanations of history never, ever hold up to universal examinations of other cultures.

>> No.14588776

>>14586219
How do you defeat a decentralized system that makes existence separate from itself impossible? The fragility of centralized systems are what give them freedom because there is always a clear fire exit.

>> No.14588793

>>14580851
how the actual fuck is there a dugin shill thread on /lit/ right now

>> No.14588889

>>14588762
>The Romans literally left babies they didn't want to die in the street.

Holy hell you ignorance is reaching levels that shouldn't be possible. One of the key foundational premises of Roman civilization was the limiting of the virgin sacrifice. Rather than an ongoing sacrifice of many virgins that could be found elsewhere, Romulus instituted the practice of having two virgin priests. This was later refined by Jesus into the Virgin Mary.

Both Rome and Christianity share an attempt to reverse the fall from grace that material scarcity and ignorance brought into the world. Both of these ideologies flourished because they resonated with something hardwired into people. That we can find people who deviated from them (rampant virgin sacrifice) is a result of a fall from grace.

It is true that late stage Roman "civilization" had rampant abortion, but this coincides with their decline rather than their flourishing. It is a coping mechanism of an empire that couldn't find it within themselves to live sustainable lives in harmony with their nature. It is a story of tragedy and misery that we want to avoid.

Today you see record levels of depression in the west, and also legalized abortion. We see the human soul being crushed and its deviant behavior exploding. And, just as in Roman times, we see material scarcity constraints driving this. We see an empire flailing aimlessly in the ME trying to control dwindling energy supplies. We see absurd superstitions like liberalism capturing the minds of morons.

An old story, and one you really haven't even begun to comprehend.

>> No.14589644

>>14581952
If you don't want to fuck Nina you are a gay little baby and you will never survive in the Eurasian steppe when the Duganites take power alongside China and STEAL your women after they CATASTRATE your society AND YOUR BALLS

>> No.14589788

>>14588889
Ur not as smart as you think you are tho

>> No.14590004

>>14588762
>muh rite wing bawd maymay

>> No.14590285

>>14590004
Anyone who identifies as right or left wing is usually wilfully ignorant for ideological purposes.

>> No.14590403

>>14585721
True freedom is controlling others

>> No.14590514

>>14588793
what do you mean "how the actual fuck"

>> No.14590793

>>14580851
His ideology is retarded.
The fact that Russian elites pay attention to him show how desperate they are to obtain legitimacy for their dysfunctional rule.

Hopefully someone kills him before he does more damage

>> No.14590821

>>14590793
>His ideology is retarded
Why?

His ideas are well-formulated thoughts that sit in the heads of people in Russia. The alternative is more right-wing nationalism, or something like stalinism.

>Russian elites pay attention to him
What are the names of those people in the Russian government who really say that they are followers of Dugin?

>> No.14590827

>>14590793
What damage do you think he is doing, exactly?

>> No.14591032

>>14590403
gross

>> No.14591244

>>14588762
How is this supposed to debunk moral hardwiring? Couldn’t different populations have different hardwiring, that difference and not amorphous “culture” being causal?

>> No.14591259

Fuck fascist and right wing scum.

>> No.14591325

>>14591244
This is a perfectly valid criticism of what they wrote, but the liberal brain is so rotted out that they can't even conceive of internal biodiversity anymore. Intuitively I think we all understand it, but they can't verbalize it without their ideology collapsing. This is a big part of the society of the spectacle and their obsession with external markers to the exclusion of cognitive diversity.

>> No.14591501

>>14591259
seething tranny

>> No.14591528

>>14580851
By the looks of him, he should read a few books on the importance of personal hygiene.

>> No.14591581

>>14580860
The future is a synthesis of the spirits of human inspiration involved in science, art, and philosophy that has no desire for nostalgic ties to the past; it is wholly future-focused as opposed to the worship of the dead past that currently dominates the world.

>> No.14591634

>>14591325
Well yeah, their understanding of culture as an unmoved mover makes systematic treatments of difference impossible because in their minds the world is as it is for no reason. This is obviously meant to support their belief in infinite human plasticity, which in turn provides justification for final immanent “progress” aka “Babel-building”. Though i suppose the opposite extreme (that I prefer) of “all historical difference is the result of differentiated neural wiring” is similarly and problematically unfalsifiable. Not that anyone is in danger of accidentally believing that though lol

>> No.14591641

>>14591581
Humans as highly irrational creatures can do nothing but destroy themselves when they let go of the past (lessons learned). One of main problems with the communists was their almost exclusive forward-looking posture, which led them to the starvation of 100 million souls and would've destroyed them altogether without western aid programs. As fundamentally irrational creatures, we have no hope of technocratic utopia designing like you imagine.

>> No.14591666

>>14591634
>culture as an unmoved mover

This is a very insightful way to put it. They rejected the actual unmoved mover so they had to put something in its place.

>> No.14591675

>>14591641
>Willful misinterpretation.
>Irrationality is problematic.
>Assuming I'm communist.
If I were to try to have a conversation with you it would entirely consist of trying to fight against mischaracterizations and bullshit assumptions, so I won't. Have a nice day. :)

>> No.14591869

>>14586802
>Since they cannot except that they are responsible for their lack of influence and failure

individualist, atomistic bugthink

>> No.14592180

>>14588762
Based. Why is it so hard for right wing liberals to get that nothing is “hard coded” into the material. The Word predates and is presupposed by the material. That is where the essence of reality lies. There are better ideas and worse ideas, but nothing human is static or permanent, only God is.

>> No.14592587

>>14591528
ya he should be a /fa/ggot first and foremost or im not listening to a word

>> No.14592713

I like Dugin, but denying he is a Super Russia asset is just plain stupid.

>>
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