[ 3 / biz / cgl / ck / diy / fa / g / ic / jp / lit / sci / tg / vr ] [ index / top / reports / report a bug ] [ 4plebs / archived.moe / rbt ]

Become a Patron!

/lit/ - Literature

View post   

[ Toggle deleted replies ]
File: 144 KB, 274x500, guenon2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
14523108 No.14523108 [Reply] [Original]

Where are all the Guenon(pbuh) threads?

Lit used to be a Guenon(pbuh) board with great intellectuals discussing how a great scholar rose and retroactively refuted all of western philosophy.

Where to start?

In English: https://archive.org/details/reneguenon

Chart made by another great poster:

>> No.14523115

is the Guénonpill hard to swallow?

>> No.14523116
File: 890 KB, 1630x1328, 1575025449132.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.14523120

Are you the original guenonposter?

>> No.14523124

i think you guys finally got to the point where people are actually reading guenon, now the trend can slowly die

>> No.14523125

can you glorify this hindu boot licker without dragging our terminology into it?

>> No.14523126

No, that was another great poster. I don't know what happened to him.

>> No.14523136

anyone got an epub of east and west pls respond. got a pdf but it has double pages.

>> No.14523141

this, guenon is a fringe occultist respected by neither real muslims nor real hindus

>> No.14523147

You can find it within https://archive.org/details/reneguenon

>> No.14523179

It is a very difficult pill to swallow, but a necessary one regardless.
When people actually read Guenon(pbuh) the trend will rise again.

>> No.14523184

The hylics have taken over, brother. Guenon's name (pbuh) doesn't deserve to be sullied by posts here.

>> No.14523194

Doesn't know what it means.

>> No.14523199

that also has double pages although it's a different edition. thanks anyway. was hoping for a clean epub to read on my kindle. already read and got some others on libgen

>> No.14523216

why was he muslim if he wrote about hinduism?

>> No.14523222

Resources to read Guenon(pbuh), in his native French:


Anymore resources or advice?

>> No.14523239

one can't become an hindu if he was not born in india

le français par la methode nature
Worman's First French Book

>> No.14523275


>> No.14523292 [DELETED] 

how do we get people to read and post about guenon again? i miss the days where there were only guenon(pbuh) threads desu

>> No.14523294
File: 494 KB, 647x656, 1576994441578.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Reading even a single chapter of Guénon's (pbuh) pic related blesses you with such illumination that it's almost comparable to reading the Torah.

>> No.14523308

Based! This. Guénon is B A S E D as fuck famalam

>> No.14523314

This. We shall gather here briefly and share our guenonic advice, then promptly retreat and wait for new eager learners. That's how it is to be done.

>> No.14523316

>hindu poos have such low esteem that they have to rely on a horse faced retard to give them legitimization and value

>> No.14523328

>one can't become an hindu if he was not born in india
That's not true, there are many examples proving otherwise, each sect and order has its own rules and customs regarding people converting, participating, initiations etc, many of them accept westerners. There is just no standardized pan-Hindu conversion procedure like there is in Islam
Even if many people on /lit/ are now reading him it's still fascinating to talk about his ideas

>> No.14523330
File: 59 KB, 346x350, 1576823892108.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>horse faced

>> No.14523332
File: 11 KB, 169x300, Guenon-author-pg-image-3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Cringe and sadpilled! Many such cases.

>> No.14523338

Please come and share your advice then anon.
>Never even read a single page of Guenon(pbuh)

>> No.14523356

if that's not true guenon wouldve become one. rama coomaraswamy as well. dont fall for internet larpers posing off as hindu, anon. it's all larping. guenon and rama themselves said it: you can't become an hindu if you were not born in the hindu geography

>> No.14523359

>pajeets still seething
lmao. what a pathetic existence, how does it feel to know your horse faces savior didn't even convert to your poo religion, but rather chose the religion of your conquerers?

>> No.14523361

>Even if many people on /lit/ are now reading him it's still fascinating to talk about his ideas
This, just because /lit/ has chosen Guenon as its favorite author does not mean he is a 'trend'

>> No.14523411

How many people here actually read at least 1 chapter of Guenon and aren't just larping?

>> No.14523428

>guenon and rama themselves said it: you can't become an hindu if you were not born in the hindu geography
Guenon never wrote that once in any of his books or letters, stop lying. Some of his western associates traveled to India and were initiated as Hindus and even today one can find all sorts of expat westerners living as Hindus in India, it was just more convient for Guenon to adopt the Muslim lifestyle

>> No.14523429

I've read Intro to Hindu Doctrines, East and West, Crisis of the Modern World, his book on Metaphysical Infinitesimal Calculus and am now reading >>14523294
Join us and get enligthened too.

>> No.14523435

>more convenient to adopt the religion of india's conquerors and rapists

such sincere respect for hinduism

>> No.14523443

>coping this hard
how was it convenient? the muslim lifestyle is much stricter than the hindu one, with no alcohol and gambling, should've just said he didn't want to live among poos

>> No.14523449

What did you actually learn from his works? What was so enlightening?

>> No.14523465

Your insistence on calling Indians "poos" shows how ignorant you are, India is the fastest growing economy in the world. Most people live in traditional homes and it is normal for people to go to the bathroom outdoors. It is not necessary to turn every place into an American style "condominium" with wasting water for toilets.

>> No.14523478
File: 2.95 MB, 960x540, poo party.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

let me guess, superpower 2020?

>> No.14523485
File: 60 KB, 267x334, Rene-Guenon_6207.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

René Guénon completed the system of western scholasticism.

>> No.14523494

prove he didnt

they even reiterated that to me in a dream: "bonjour, you can't become an hindu if you were not born in the caste system and the sacred geography of india. larping est antitraditionnelle"

>> No.14523526
File: 363 KB, 1080x1440, IMG_20161214_192233_1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I'm a white American, lived in India and was eventually adopted into a Kshatrya family. Guess that doesn't count?

>> No.14523530

>hindu retards can't even decide whether to let none poos convert

>> No.14523531

name one traditionalist that is an hindu besides ananda coomaraswamy

>> No.14523534
File: 108 KB, 1200x478, chadguenon.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.14523538

He reads and looks like an inbred Lovecraft.

>> No.14523539

>adopted into a Kshatrya family
What does that mean metaphysically? Did you get a caste?

>> No.14523549

where did the original guenon posters go? why is this the only thread of him now?

>> No.14523620

Alain Daniélou

>> No.14523731

Name one traditionalist that was a Jew except Moses (pbuh)

>> No.14523960

>this is the only guenon thread on the board right now

>> No.14524126

Leo Schaya but he converted to Islam

>> No.14524990

literally why did he do it? Jewish rituals are based and redpilled pure Primordial Tradition

>> No.14525042

I will never read him because of the spamfags here.

>> No.14525079

do you think we care or something? lol

>> No.14525108
File: 2.73 MB, 1872x4291, guenonfag.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>> No.14525220
File: 27 KB, 640x255, 82E3E01C-A47E-412E-A2DF-C002212D865C.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Where do people get these memes?

Google images has virtually nothing.

>> No.14525246
File: 556 KB, 647x656, 1576819881617.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

they craft them and other people save them.
>Google images
that's counter-initiation and counter-tradition to 4chanic tradition.

>> No.14525328

It's literally the same 4 faggots spamming this garbage.

>> No.14525333
File: 166 KB, 1200x857, 1528192305297.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

how trad of you

>> No.14525334

you're talking to guenonfag

>Where do people get these marvelous memes! Haha! What fun!
>My dear man, your fellow Guenon-friends make them! Join the Guenon-friends today!
>Why, I believe I shall!

t. guenonfag

>> No.14525345

serious question, are you indian? don't lie, its nontraditional

>> No.14525354

four persons in one guenonposter.

>> No.14525357

Post-ironic memeing has surpassed me I guess.

>> No.14525369

Nay. He went into occultation and shall return again in the appointed time.

>> No.14525414

What will be a suitable punishment for guenonfags once the traditionalist revolution occurs?

>> No.14525439

Can you further punish someone who is already Indian?

>> No.14525569

If you're familiar with caste names you would know that he already answered your question.

>> No.14525583

kek wut

>> No.14526540

So he could join his friend Schuon's Tariqa the maryamiyya I guess.

>> No.14526630

But the Traditionalist revolution started with Guenon?

Dont take the memes about Guenon vs Evola too seriously, most of us like them both.

>> No.14526657

>I-i-i was going t-to read g-guenon until people here started spamming him and c-changed my mind

yeh you aint fooling anyone whitehead

>> No.14526667

What is Guenon even about? What are his main and most enlightening ideas?

It seems no one in these threads can answer.

>> No.14526681
File: 259 KB, 1280x960, 1551225316593.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Guenon is just theosophy for incels

Read dhamma

>> No.14526682
File: 3.84 MB, 6161x5009, 1574502839447.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Traditionalist Perennialism.
Just read him yourself, most of the people posting on this thread, both pro-Guenonfags and anti-Guenonfags have never read any of Guenons books.

If you want to read Guenon start with this chart

>> No.14526685


>> No.14526687

there will be no trad revolution did you guys even read reign of quantity

>> No.14526694

ok guénonposter.

>> No.14526695

>What are his main and most enlightening ideas?
The consumption of male semen, the Gnostic "Sacrament" or "Amrita".

>The young and the inexperienced will no doubt be misled and confused by some of the materials invoked in the preparation and some of the details concerning the milking and will be led astray to ruin, but we nevertheless advise to initiate them into the transubstantiatic "lesser circle" as soon as may be reasonably possible. If a full consumption of the Sacrament does not appear to be feasible, a simple anointing of the lips will suffice.

>> No.14526699

Yeah dont listen to anyone in this thread telling you what Guenon thought, hes just a big meme on this board. You gotta read him yourself

>> No.14526703

>guenonfag pretending to be impartial just to get people to read a pseudo intellectual rhetorician
ok guenonfag

>> No.14526705


>> No.14526706

>most of us like them both.
I'd like to believe that most of "us" have enough sense to discern the satanic and counter-tradition nature of Ebola.

>> No.14526718

Not Guenon himself apparently. they were good friends irl. They had some disagreements over politics, and the moral value of certain religions. But they still respected eachother.

Contrary to a popular belief, it is possible to disagree with someone while still respecting and agreeing with parts of their worldview

>> No.14526734

>respecting and agreeing with parts of their worldview
The only agreeable parts in Ebolian thought are just rephrasings of Guénon. He might have been a nice guy to be friends with, none of us will know that, but he certainly had a lot of degenerate counter-tradition ideas.

>> No.14526736

No they were not friends and Guénon was unaware of Evola's inversion.

Not even that guy you are responding to, but Evola is a clear case of inversion and his ideas are what Guénon would call satanic and antitraditionnelle

>> No.14526743


I've read reign of quantity long before this board even existed and he's really just a crypto-theosophist disguised as a western scholar.

No really if you actually do read him he talks about how lame theosophy and similar movements are yet his ideas nearly match them.

I implore anyone to actually pick up no more than 1 of his books and see for yourself, don't bother continue reading him he just repeats the same theosophical talking points like you wouldn't believe.

Save your time for something more interesting.

>> No.14526748

wait so Evola was more based than I thought?

>> No.14526761

Thats fine, as long as you actually read his books before making retarded posts on 4chan I dont have a problem

>> No.14526771

Based. That's the conclusion I came to after praying to Buddha too.

>> No.14526774

Based. fuck Guenon, fuck traditionalism. long live our God Gautama Buddha

>> No.14526778
File: 691 KB, 886x482, 1564298843346.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>j-just read him bro I swear he's so good
is this guenonfag's final gambit? his hail mary to finally get people to read this meme author?

>> No.14526787

>that Adam (pbuh) tier perfection of a face
Based. Makes me want to read him despite all the spam.

>> No.14526790
File: 1.80 MB, 1919x892, Capture.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


Is there anything more pathetic than a whiteheadfag?

>> No.14526800
File: 307 KB, 1006x397, 1569110778185.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Is there anything more pathetic than a whiteheadfag?
a guenonfag

>> No.14526823

obviously it isn't working or else they'd be discussing his material instead of having kneejerk shitposty reactions like >>14526787 >>14526790

>> No.14526853

This is what I've been trying to find out. It's pretty sad that an author gets this sort of legacy. No doubt he put immense effort into his studies and he has this faggotry for a following.

>> No.14526864

It is known that Guenonic thought is too divine to be properly contained within a 4channel comment.

>> No.14526866

Why is he even trying to get people to read him though? We already know he killed any chance of having serious trad threads but does he actually think people will pick up Reign/Crisis, convert to his neo-theosophist internet subculture and shitpost with him? Because it didn't happen to me and I doubt it it will happen to anyone else.

>> No.14526872

ok guenonfag now go back to discord where you can contain that divine semen....oops I mean divine thought.

>> No.14526874

yes, because of the camel piss taste of it

>> No.14526883

>real muslims

>> No.14526890


>> No.14526896

A saint in Islam. He is also considered by some to be the Last and Final Prophet after Muhammad (pbuh).

>> No.14526905

more like four IPs in one free web proxies site

>> No.14526911

>What is Guenon even about?
It's just plain and stinky orientalism.

>> No.14526915

>in Islam
no such thing

>> No.14526943
File: 18 KB, 1853x263, 1568085407213.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

you're both wrong. He's a mentally ill incel hopping between starbucks and mcdonalds to shitpost on their IPs (pic related).

>> No.14527006

Was he Shia?

>> No.14527013

refuted by Shankara

>> No.14527020

That’s fine, Shankara was Buddhist anyway

>> No.14527051

They are both Upanishadic in origin, Shankara just has the much more logical and coherent explanation of the tradition they both come from

>> No.14527059

>Shankara just has the much more logical and coherent explanation of the tradition they both come from
well of course he does, he learned much from based Nagarjuna

>> No.14527084
File: 359 KB, 1297x2377, IMG_5305.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Unfortunately, Nagarjuna is not based, because he was badly refuted by Richard Robinson in pic related, who showed how Nagarjuna's arguments had more holes then swiss cheese. Shankara has never been refuted and so his basedness is superior

>> No.14527087
File: 42 KB, 498x373, Ramanuja&Madhva.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Shankara has never been refuted

>> No.14527093

Richard Robinson is a buddhist himself lol.

>> No.14527098

Dvaita cope:
>Madhva's attempts to locate his controversial views in the canonical Vedanta texts often proved difficult. He is perhaps most famous for his idiosyncratic rendering of the Chandogya Upanisad's statement tat tvam asi or "you (the atman) are that (brahman)." By carrying over the 'a' from the preceding word, Madhva rendered the phrase atat tvam asi or "you are not that."

>> No.14527132

Theosophy is superficial, new age faggotry and Blavatsky has been proven to be a fraud. If you think it's anywhere close to Perennialism then you have a room temperature IQ.

>> No.14527138
File: 1.84 MB, 2665x1821, post_shankara_advaita.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

All of the attempts by Vishishtadvaitins and Dvaitins to refute Advaita have generally been based on a complete misunderstanding of Advaita, and when they havn't been those arguments were retroactively refuted by Advaitins. You can see the first few parts of this picture for a summary of these debates and how the Advaitins were right. Nobody has ever logically refuted any idea of Shankara as very few of them have actually addressed his thought rather then strawmen, but even these few honest attempts have completely failed. Shankaracharya (pbuh) is infallible

>> No.14527151

that doesn't make his critique of Nagarjuna's logic any less devastating to the credibility and seriousness of Madhyamaka

>> No.14527154

surely he would be an Advaitin after such devastation, no?

>> No.14527168
File: 64 KB, 819x756, 1575207014385.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>shankara wasn't a crypto bhud-

>> No.14527191

literally in that same book of your pic related

>According to Advaita scholar Chandradhar Sharma, 'Gaudapada's Karika bears many doctrinal and terminological similarities with Nagarjuna's Karika and with the works of Asanga and Vasubandhu. Besides, there is the methodological similarity in the employment of the dialectic between Gaudapada and the Madhyamika Buddhists. The fourth chapter of Karika, known as the Alatashantiprakarana, exhibits a strikingly Buddhist tenor and has been a "problem child" of Gaudapada for the interpreters.'

even hindu scholars cannot escape this charge

>> No.14527192

Do we know what Guenon's room looked like?
I want to LARP as Guenon in order to make myself smarter.

>> No.14527193

How do advaitins refute ramanuja?

>> No.14527200
File: 42 KB, 618x478, 1569163457865.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>no bro Shankara is a genius and irrefutable you either misunderstood him or you didn't defeat him in a cosmic battle of autistic argumentation
you can just tell this poster is a stinky pajeet

>> No.14527232

They can't. Both Madhva and Ramanuja humiliated him in his own subcontinent, that's why most hindus today subscribe to Vishistic Bhaktism, they saw through Shankara's bullshit.

>> No.14527239

t. hasn't read Guenon

>> No.14527308

Madhva seemed to have refuted himself: >>14527098

>> No.14528025

is there a guenon discord server

>> No.14528079

>about 6 hours between last post
Good morning guenonfag I see you’re still bumping your thread around this time as always

>> No.14528088

Good morning anti-guenonfag I see you’re still bumping your thread around this time as always

>> No.14528094

Except they correspondent and read each other’s works. Try harder

>> No.14528102

your belief that advaita hasn't been refuted is generally based on a complete misunderstanding of advaita

wow it's almost like saying "n-no Bob is wrong and Steve is right, because Steve said so" isn't an argument

>> No.14528422

Why is Guenon so threatening to some people? What are they trying to hold on to, that Guenon is such a threat?

>> No.14528603

>has a picture of muslim on his shrine
god what a larper

>> No.14528619

There are saints in Islam. Guenon was probably not a saint, though. Saints in Islam are called Awliya. Some notable ones are Bayazid Bistami, Bishr-i Hafi, Mevlana Rumi, Abdul Qadir Geylani, Seyyid Ahmed er-Rifa'i

>> No.14528660

If you'd like to you can post any argument made by any thinker or school that you think logically refuted Advaita, I have never seen any argument that did so but you're welcome to provide examples that show I'm wrong

>> No.14528685

>What are they trying to hold on to, that Guenon is such a threat?
Guenon (pbuh) btfos and retroactively refutes so many fallacious beliefs in his works that his threads attract a whole cast of characters from across the ideological and religious/metaphysical spectrum who feel a burning resentment against him and who feel the irresistible urge to post their troll images, copypastas, baits etc whenever they see him on /lit/. It seems to be especially common among the Buddhists here.

>> No.14528697

no would've hated him this much if you seething low self esteem hindu poos didn't spam him

>> No.14528726

as an asian buddhist i've unironically enjoyed guenon and kept quite about it

>> No.14528767

Daily reminder that Guenonfags never talk about philosophy because their intellectual hero is a shitty unintelligible obscurantist. At least William Lane Craig and Edward Feser fanboys try to engage with the opposition, while Guenon threads are 100% about sucking the dick of the great master.

>> No.14528827

>>14528767 Part 1
This is a valid critique. Guenon usually does not engage with, and simply dismisses modern philosophy. But then so does Nietzsche, the Existentialists and Post-Modern philosophers with respect to philosophers before them. Nietzsche at least explains why he doesn`t engage them; he doesn`t believe in or value truth; his successors either take that for granted or are just lazy: some are content with dismissing ideas because they come from the bourgeoisie or the patriarchy, or are logocentric, phalocentric or whatever catch-word, and thus are inherently invalid. So there is nothing exclusive about Guenon or the traditionalists in that regard.

>> No.14528849

there is a logical distinction between
>Post any argument you think refutes X, and I will defend it against X. I've never seen an argument that truly satisfied me that it refuted X
>I've never seen any argument that truly satisfied me that it refuted X. Therefore, no argument has ever refuted X.

you typically elide these two into one another, but they are distinct. whether YOU think advaita was refuted by some other school, or whether YOU think some other school was refuted by advaita, is one thing. whether this is actually true is another. we cannot determine the latter by referring back to your subjective perception of what is/isn't the case, when the whole question in the first place was whether your subjective perception corresponds to objective truth or not. that would be begging the question.

nor is this to say that anti-advaitins are necessarily correct. it is simply to say that correctness/incorrectness is not established by some random guy saying 'I've never been satisfied that X is correct' or 'I really really really think that Y is correct'.

it's frankly baffling how often you do this. you can agree or disagree with whatever you want. you can argue about it with other people, in good faith. but you don't have some magic authority to say 'Ummm 1000 years of vishishtadvaita logic hasn't satisfied me personally, therefore, it's all bad logic and fundamentally advaita is right'. who cares what you think?

>> No.14528856

Guénon, held scholasticism in high esteem Guenonfags can tag team with Aquinas fanboys no problems

>> No.14528860

>>14528827 Part 2
Evola does engage with the ideas of a number of philosophers, including Nietzsche, Heidegger and the Existentialists, and presents really good arguments. His critique of Nietzsche based on Nietzsche's own philosophy is original and remains good.

Guenon on the other hand repeatedly says that he doesn't have an interest in (profane) philosophy as such, specially modern philosophy which he considers to have gone in the direction of specialization and subjectivism. He however says that it has validity within a certain, specific domain. He however is only interested in the point of view of pure metaphysics with a view to transcendency, which modern philosophy ignores, so you can't fault him for not engaging with it.

>> No.14528866

I don't really care about these movements so I am not going to defend them, but Enlightment philosophers were very much engaged with the older philosophical traditions they rejected. The same is true about contemporary analytic philosophy.

>> No.14528886

>He however is only interested in the point of view of pure metaphysics with a view to transcendency, which modern philosophy ignores, so you can't fault him for not engaging with it.
Modern philosophy doesn't m
erely ignore old-school Platonist\Aristotelian metaphysics, there are philosopher who make actual arguments as to why are they wrong.

>> No.14528914

A discord will rise where we will learn french in order to understand his works in his native tongue.

>> No.14528930
File: 94 KB, 898x913, advaita_chad.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

I'm not just basing this on my subjective opinion, I simply have no reason to doubt this scholar in his book posted here >>14527138 when he summarizes the Advaitin vs. non-Advaitin debates and says that Advaita generally hasn't been logically refuted. He summarizes in that picture some of the main points of contention made by Vishishadvaitins/Dvaitins and how Advaitins have rebutted each and in some cases showed how they were based on misunderstanding; I haven't seen anything in that chapter which is wrong, nor have I seen any good argument against Advaita by those schools which was not already explained by the author in that chapter as rebutted by Advaitins. I'm not interested in personal attacks but if you'd like to post anything that you think is a rational argument against Advaita made by a school etc I'd happily engage with it. I don't think you are actually familiar with any of these arguments or schools of thought though and are just attacking Advaita because you perceive it as aligned with Guenon, although if you want to post any actual arguments I'll take them seriously and respond thoughtfully.

>> No.14528939
File: 13 KB, 247x165, clown_guenon.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Guenon usually does not engage with, and simply dismisses modern philosophy
t. hasn't read 'East and West', 'Crisis of the Modern World' or 'Reign of Quantity and the Signs of the Times' where he extensively comments on and dismantles western philosophy

>> No.14528944

Is there alot of worthwhile untranslated traditionalist literature in french? I feel as if traditionalism is more of a continental phenomenon.

>> No.14528963

>I'm not just basing this on my subjective opinion
>I simply have no reason to doubt this scholar
>I haven't seen anything in that chapter which is wrong
>nor have I seen any good argument against Advaita

this is what i mean. there is nothing wrong with saying that YOU have not seen a satisfying refutation, that YOU agree with such and such. no one is disputing what YOU agree or disagree with.

what is in dispute is whether what YOU think is objectively correct or not, which is a separate question. and what i am telling you is that repeating 'well, i've never seen anything to make me think i'm not correct!' is not a valid response to that question.

i am not personally attacking you. i'm just letting you know, as many others have before, that some random dude (you) saying 'Advaita has never been refuted!' is exactly as meaningless as some other random dude saying 'Advaita has been refuted!'. what happens in that situation is that you have two people who disagree. one of them can't refute the other by simply repeating that your position is right and the other guy's is wrong, because that is begging the question: that is what was to be determined in the first place.

the rest of your post is irrelevant to this basic issue with your style of argumentation, namely, that you think your subjective opinion ('I've never seen ...', 'I don't see any reason why this is wrong ...', etc.) proves the correctness of your subjective opinion when the latter is doubted by another person.

fruitful argument may result from two people disagreeing, if and only if those two people respect the possibility that they might not convince one another at the end of their discussion, and that their disagreement may unfortunately persist. you don't do this. you assume you are right by default, and assume that the responsibility of the other person is to convince you to abandon your position, otherwise your position remains 'right'.

>> No.14528985
File: 112 KB, 611x548, 687897.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.14528989

The reason why Guenon wouldn’t want to engage with them was because of his beliefs. You could say, he was a dogmatic thinker; he believed that it was possible to have direct knowledge of the structure of reality by means of the Intellectus, and that such knowledge was obtained via initiation and imparted through Tradition. (Profane) Philosophy in the other hand operates by means of Ratio, which is discursive reasoning based on given premises, and is limited to particular and contingent points of view, thus never touching on the absolute. He was only interested in exposing what he believed was absolute imparted knowledge, with little to know innovation or modification on his own part, not convincing or refuting other particular views, which have their own limited domain. He was thus not a philosopher, but a dogmatist which only utilized the language of philosophy as ancillary, like Aquinas and the Christian Church fathers.
Of course one could take the presuppositions of Traditionalism and go on a debating crusade against philosophers, but he didn’t think that was his calling.

>> No.14528995

I have no interest in discussing the semantics of how i spoke about something. I thought you possibly might have been interested in having a genuine discussion of whether some of school of thought successfully Advaita another in some way, but it appears that you weren't. Someone which may have been you or not made such a contention earlier that there was a successful refutation, and I explained why I thought there hadn't been and posted a source from a book backing my position. If you want to engage on that topic I will reply but otherwise this is irrelevant.

>> No.14528999

Proxy debate via scholars? Engaging with the concepts themselves would be more effective, no? Wasn't Guénon himself distrustful of orientalism?

>> No.14529006

>refuted by Richard Robinson
>""refuted"" by a Westerner
oh no no no no

>> No.14529011

It’s being a long time since I’ve read these, but what I said is generally true. Refuting other philosophers was not the focus of his works.

>> No.14529014

if you can't make the distinction between the rules of polite and fruitful dialectic, and the content of a given dialectic, then we've reached the root of your inability to argue earnestly on behalf of your ideas. you should learn how to argue philosophically before trying to argue about philosophy.

if you ever reach a level of self-reflection that makes you wonder why so many people find your style of arguing disingenuous, and why you have so few arguing partners as a result, return to this thread and reflect on what i said. i tried to put it in the simplest possible terms so that you could understand it. maybe you will be able to in a few years.

>> No.14529023

i know right, imagine being so retarded you're refuted by a fucking westerner

>> No.14529027

>throwing a tantrum
okay well I gave you enough chances

>> No.14529036

I reject this notion a priori.

>> No.14529058

dialectic simply means argument, in the elenchic sense of socrates in plato's dialogues. i'm just telling the dude that the logical form of his arguments is broken in a way that is sabotaging any discussion of the actual content. he's effectively appealing to his own authority, which is solipsistic both in the obvious sense, and in the sense that the people he argues with routinely go 'lol so you're saying you're right because you're right because you're right because ... etc., i guess i can't even have a conversation with you then'.

4chan is 4chan, people are going to be argumentative assholes, but beneath the shitposting there should still be a genuine ability to treat your opponent as having as much of a right to think he's correct as you have the same right for your own beliefs.

>> No.14529081
File: 5 KB, 225x225, images (35).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Whiteheadian Perennialism:

>Building on the speculative metaphysics of Alfred North Whitehead’s (1861–1947) Process and Reality (1929), and work by his student Charles Hartshorne (1897-2000), theologians John Cobb and David Ray Griffin have advocated what the latter calls “deep,” “differential,” and “complementary” pluralism - what is here described as “ultimist.” (Cooper 2006, ch. 7; Griffin 2005b)

>Cobb and Griffin assume that there is no supernatural intervention (any miraculous interruption of the ordinary course of nature) by God or other beings. This, it is hoped, rules out anyone having grounds for believing any particular religion to be the uniquely best religion. (Griffin 2005a) They do, however, take seriously at least many of the unusual religious experiences people report. They hypothesize that some religious mystics really do perceive (without using ordinary sense organs) some “ultimate” (that is, something regarded as ultimate).


>> No.14529098

wtf I'm a Whiteheadian Guenonist now

>> No.14529110

this is what happen when you give poos an internet connection

>> No.14529112

I don't wanna be a Muslim tho.

>> No.14529124

be a jew then

>> No.14529146

Isn't that really hard? I don't know if I wanna be a Jew either tho.

>> No.14529149
File: 304 KB, 956x966, holy based.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Monsieur la Guenon's monkeying around amuses me.

>> No.14529155
File: 25 KB, 225x338, jewish magic ritual.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Could I even marry if I converted? I've heard Orthodox Jews are extremely picky about having the correct genes and I have no Jew in me, as far as I know.

>> No.14529161
File: 10 KB, 190x272, pbuh(12).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>The vigor of a religious tradition is nevertheless to be admired when, though withdrawn into a kind of virtuality, it survives in spite of all the attempts
made during several centuries to stifle and annihilate it; and, if one pauses to think about it, it will be apparent that there is something about a resistance of this kind implying the presence of a more than human power; but, once again let it be repeated, the tradition in question does not belong to the modern world, nor does it form one of its component elements, but is the exact opposite of all its tendencies and aspirations. It is necessary to say this openly and not look for deceptive reconciliations; between the religious point of view, in the true sense of the word, and the modern attitude of
mind there can be nothing but antagonism; any compromise can but serve to enfeeble the former and strengthen the latter, nor will the hostility of the modern mentality be lessened on that account, since it cannot help desiring the total destruction of It is said that the modern West is Christian, but this is a mistake: the modern outlook is anti-Christian because it is essentially antireligious; and it is anti-religious because, in a still wider sense, it is anti-traditional; it is this that gives it its particular character and causes it to be what it is.

>> No.14529162
File: 12 KB, 480x360, 33rd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>Crowley was 33rd degree Mason
>Guénon argues, that not real grades since not continental masonry

No wonder Crowley thought Guénon was a fucking retard frog

>> No.14529165
File: 232 KB, 702x869, guenon (pbuh).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Assuredly, something of Christianity has passed over even into the anti-Christian civilization of our time, with the result that its most “advanced” representatives (as they style themselves in their own special language) cannot help having undergone and continuing to undergo, involuntarily and perhaps unconsciously, a certain Christian influence, if only an indirect one; this is so because a break with the past, however radical, can never be altogether complete and such as to preclude all continuity. We will go further and say that everything of any value still to be found in the modern world came to it from Christianity, or at any rate through Christianity, which brought with it the whole heritage of former traditions and has kept that heritage alive, in so far as the conditions of the West permitted, and still bears its latent possibilities within itself; but, even among those calling themselves Christians, is there anyone at the present time who retains a full consciousness of these possibilities? Where, even in Catholicism, are to be found the men who understand the deeper meaning of the doctrine they profess outwardly, and who are not simply content with “believing” in a more or less superficial way, sentimentally rather than through the intelligence, but who really “know” the truth of the religious tradition which they claim for their own? One would indeed welcome some evidence of the existence of at least a few such people, for that would be the greatest and perhaps the only hope of salvation for the West; but it must be admitted that up to the present time none have made themselves known; can it be supposed that, like certain sages of the East, they live apart in some inaccessible retreat, or must this last hope be finally abandoned? The West was Christian in the Middle Ages but is so no longer; if it be said that it might become so again, there is no one who can desire this more fervently than ourselves, and may it come about in a shorter time than all that is to be seen around would lead one to suppose; but let no man delude himself on the subject; if this should happen, the modern world will have had its day. - Rene Guenon (pbuh)

>> No.14529170

Being a proper Muslim who follows everything fully is hard too.

>> No.14529176

I mean like isn't it hard to get someone to convert you?

>> No.14529177

>Crowley was 33rd degree Mason
so a counter-tradition larper with no real metaphysical knowledge? got it.

>> No.14529193

>so a counter-tradition larper

What the fuck you think? Guénon defines counter-tradition as the:
>The last degree of the ‘counter-initiatic’ hierarchy is occupied by what are called the ‘saints of Satan’ ( awliya ’ al-shaytan)

Crowley assumed the name of Baphomet, he considered his holy guardian angel itself as Shaytan, Satan and Lucifer.

He actually claimed the Authority as the Beast 666 (which is an office, not assumed role) and the authority is derived from Satan. He never completed the Abramelin ritual either where one is to banish the 4 princes (Satan, Lucifer, Belial, Leviathan)

Of course Crowley was counter-traditional you retard fuck

>> No.14529203

It's hard only because they don't need additional converts who will later drop out and not observe all of the commandments, so they check for sincerity more intensely. They consider a non-observant Jew a deep blemish on the nation, since not following the commandments as a Jew is strictly worse for your soul (up to a full removal of your soul from the world) than being a righteous goy who just follows the 7 Laws of Noah.

From what I know, conversion itself involves mainly learning about the Torah and their culture and being able to somewhat integrate into a Jewish community where you'll be learning.

>> No.14529227
File: 92 KB, 1300x731, Diario-Ana-Frank_1866723311_2550500_1300x731.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>tfw no cute underage Jewish waifu to observe the commandments with

>> No.14529257

What other options are there?

>> No.14529289
File: 161 KB, 1200x900, 224460.b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

become an orthodox monk.

>> No.14529321
File: 556 KB, 2500x1250, virgin guenon vs chad serrano.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Your daily reminder that Guenon (peanut butter upon him) was a Gnostic who ate human semen as a sacrament.

>> No.14529334

Isn't my shrine, it's one of my hosts.

Anyway, weak bait. Sai Baba is a great uniter of Hindu and Muslim traditions, hence a perfect symbol of Guenon.

>> No.14529335

Crowley BTFO Guénon too: >>14529149

He was the anglo who he couldn't beat.

Have you read Guénon's letters? He is scared of Crowley and is writing paranoid stuff to Evola how he thinks that Crowley is secret advisor to Adolf Hitler


>> No.14529342

the meme has a general now?

forced meemee general

>> No.14529343
File: 122 KB, 1099x1280, image000000.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]


>> No.14529374

>yfw these are the people sitting around angrily lashing out at everyone in the in /rene guenon (pbuh)/ general

>> No.14529377

LOL I did not know but am not surprised! Guenon was always a fraidycat, he retreated from his initial Gnosticism into mainstream F.'.M.'. and finally drifted into Sufism.

>> No.14529395

why is this the only guenon thread left on lit? i thought lit was a guenon board?

>> No.14529401

my own take on Evola is that he pretty much merged Traditionalism with Nietzschean concepts.

>> No.14529423

guenonspammers finally read and understood reign of quantity.

>> No.14529433

>merged Traditionalism with Anti-Traditionalist concepts
underage detected.

>> No.14529441

That comment section is hilarious
>Aleister Crowley's involvement in the war is a curious subject. Paradoxically in this context, I actually heard that he taught Churchill the famous ‘V’ sign in order to counterbalance the dark magic of Hitler’s gestures, but I’m not sure if that’s just a legend. Chances are he was an Agent ZigZag character who worked for both sides

>> No.14529447

then your host is a larper since he let you in the house

>> No.14529455

ehhh, nah. Evola wasn't the most Traditionalist philosopher in the world. He was the most "right-wing" philosopher in the world. There is a difference. In Pagan Imperialism he advocates for the creation of new "aristocratic" morality based on radical self-assertion and power. even after this stage of his writings, Evola maintained the "man of action" was the forward. Ride the Tiger is ultimately Nietzschean in it's conclusions: the subject should abandon any hope to change society but still be free from bourgeoisie constants of the last man.

>> No.14529462

>In Pagan Imperialism he advocates for the creation of new "aristocratic" morality based on radical self-assertion and power. even after this stage of his writings, Evola maintained the "man of action" was the forward. Ride the Tiger is ultimately Nietzschean in it's conclusions: the subject should abandon any hope to change society but still be free from bourgeoisie constants of the last man.
idk if you have a reading dissability, but this makes him expressely anti-traditional and satanic.

>> No.14529467


>> No.14529476

How do I reconcile Orthodoxy, Guenon(pbuh), and Hinduism?

>> No.14529478

It's as I said. Evola was a mix of Traditionalism and Nietzscheanism. Guenon was a much more traditional Traditionalist, in that he pretty much thought the clerical caste and contemplative should be leaders of society. Unlike Evola's warrior society, something which in itself hearkened to Nietzsche's dislike of contemplative-ness.

>> No.14529483

fuck is this

>> No.14529488

All traditional religions have grains of truth but only Christianity is the Way, the Truth and the Life.

>> No.14529489

why are you here if you don't even read?

>> No.14529492

hindus perverting islamic terminology to glorify their savior

>> No.14529509
File: 21 KB, 333x499, 41sqXnU6jFL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

shit slaps

>> No.14529510

Forced meme. Reference to Islamic honorific for Mohammad. Would be deeply offensive to both real hindus and real muslims.

>> No.14529511

>islamic terminology
More like Muhammadans perverting Judaic terminology to glorify their false prophet in the same manner one would glorify Abraham (pbuh).

>> No.14529513

but I really like the idea of reincarnation. The ideas of reincarnation and many worlds interpretation is very comforting to me. Any suggestions?

>> No.14529517

jews don't say "pbuh", they say "of a blessed memory" but nice try pajeet, keep larping

>> No.14529537

>many worlds interpretation
compatible with gospel. it's said that to God, the universe is like a grain of sand. So it's not hard to imagine many universes.
Really not desirable, the idea should be transcending reincarnation.

>> No.14529538

>jews don't say "pbuh"
I guess this is just a muslim larping.

>> No.14529550

Reincarnation gives me comfort because it means that this experience right now is just necessary for my consciousness to go through and to grow for the cycle. It gives meaning to suffering, a reason to be grateful even for bad things that happen.

>> No.14529554

>Really not desirable
not a whole lot you can do about that. it's deeply vowen into tradition, even jews believe in it.

>> No.14529557

what?!! a jew using pbuh?! I meant traditionally you dumb nigger. the honorification that they use that is derived from the tanakh is "of a blessed memory".

>> No.14529570

What is your favorite aspect of the Vedic tradition?

Mine is manual scavenging:

>> No.14529584

>I meant traditionally you dumb nigger.
>muslims/jews traditionally used the English language and the English words "peace be upon him"
You sound extremely dumb yourself. Are you sure you aren't a Dravidian poo?

>> No.14529589
File: 81 KB, 1240x744, toilet.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Which Upanishad gives a Vedic interpretation of this traditional Hindu ritual?

>> No.14529591
File: 2.62 MB, 640x360, 1548141728225.webm [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

outdoors activities

>> No.14529601


>This phrase is the same as the Islamic honorific "peace be upon him" (which is used for all prophets of Islam)

> However, unlike in Islamic usage, the English abbreviation "PBUH" is not commonly used for the Jewish honorific.
indians aren't this stupid, you must be a christcuck

>> No.14529604
File: 49 KB, 942x942, 1578698615875.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

What the fuck is wrong with Indians?

>> No.14529608
File: 90 KB, 636x424, manual-scavenging.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Wow... What a woundrous sight... Are these the much fabled initiates of the unbroken Vedantic chain passing down from the ancient Brahmins themselves?

>> No.14529613

>is not commonly used [in the modern world]
>therefore it did not spawn the practice of attaching (pbuh) to the names of prophets
Dravidian nigger spotted. Please clean yourself in some gutter water before stepping into the house of a Brahmin.

>> No.14529614

aryan vedic tradition

>> No.14529619

to be fair, it says "toilet" right there. how else would you interpret it as a traditionalist? he has the innate Eastern wisdom guenon talks so much about.

>> No.14529622

ok christcucko, dont seethe this hard defending your lords and masters. its just friendly banter

>> No.14529624
File: 602 KB, 1024x768, india.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

this is normal and good, the blessed vedic caste system ensures that we will always have people to poo on floor and people to pick up poo from floor, just as it is in heaven!

>> No.14529630
File: 23 KB, 400x300, vedic water ritual.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Can a subhuman white Westernet such as myself get initiated into this "manual scavenging" tradition? Seems like the most efficient path towards enligthenment.

>> No.14529645
File: 54 KB, 565x430, manual-scavenging-031.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Based Ganesh Shinde doing Brahma's work. I see the Tradition is not yet lost in the East.

>> No.14529664

Ban all IPs from india, maybe this shitty horse faced poo savior will stop appearing in the catalog

>> No.14529726
File: 6 KB, 262x165, ev7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

guenonfag lives in the US, there is no stopping him

>> No.14529804

does it have a pdf?

>> No.14529823

ok boomer

>> No.14529833

not that I have found

>> No.14529848

This is why we can’t have nice things

Dude off yourself. If you’re not interested go do something else.

>> No.14529858

why are these threads always so popular when there's reportedly only one guy spamming the guenon meme?

>> No.14529884

Based, this

>> No.14529887

I think Guenon would say don’t try to. Choose one tradition and stick with it. If you try to reconcile them you end up with syncretistic new age-like cults or ecumenic secular humanistic UN-style NGO religions (modern Roman Catholicism and Lutheranism). Religions are only reconcilable at the level of metaphysics, not their exterior appearance, dogmas and rituals, which are historical and contingent and adapted to each people and historical circumstances that gave rise to them. In other words they are only reconcilable from above, not from below.

>> No.14529897

Perennialism is "new age syncretism" though, it turns everything into the same babby's first monism.

>> No.14529904

No, retard. Read again.

>> No.14529930

There is no perennialist church or perennialist religion. Perennialists stay within the framework of existing religions and are against creating new ones or syncretizing existing ones. Perennialism is an exegesis. You either haven’t read them or are too stupid to understand the difference.

>> No.14529947


>> No.14529974

At the exoteric level sure, perennialists pretend to pay lip service to "traditions," but their metaphysical outlook is new age syncretism and basically theosophical as said >>14526743

This doesn't even make sense either because most of the traditions they sincerely roleplay as following demand explicitly that you do not roleplay them or merely pay lip service to the "exoteric". For instance you can't be a Christian without really truly accepting Christ as a personal savior, you can't be a Muslim without having similar beliefs about Muhammad's prophethood. Same goes for Hindu bhakti, which is incidentally why Shankara has problems with bhakti since he regards it all as external "as if" religiosity and not real devotion.

Perennialists are the modern evolution of theosophy, that's all. It's a pseudo religion for soul-searching dabblers.

>> No.14529992

imagine letting yourself get this mad over rene guenon (pbuh) and writing this to troll his blessed followers

>> No.14530002

Extensively criticized by Guenon and other perennialists. If you’re not gonna address Guenon’s true position and are going to argue against a straw man I can ignore you as it does not pertain to the thread and the subject at hand.

>> No.14530004

So what's guenons philosophy?

>> No.14530012

How am I mad, I am just agreeing with what the other poster said. Guenon's intellectual milieu was perennialist, his philosophy is basically still perennialist with mild modifications at the surface, and his metaphysics is boring textbook neoplatonic monism with some orientalist sprinkles.

Now this guy is mad, telling me for no reason he intends to ignore me (??? it's an anonymous messageboard, retard) and going out of his way not to (You) me, which is supposed to be done as a joke, not seriously like this. This guy is so IRL mad when someone criticizes his internet guru that he did an ironic joke thing unironically.

>> No.14530017


>> No.14530020

Perennialist = theosophist, my bad.

You should read him and find out. There aren't many good intellectual history books on him, only Sedgwick's Against the Modern World which isn't perfect but it can at least give you an overview of the major figures.

>> No.14530024

>no ur mad

>> No.14530027

he essentially argues that advaita vedanta is the truth and that this truth is reflected in the esoteric/metaphysical aspects of other religions as well throughout history for various reasons


>> No.14530029

>I am going to ignore you!!!
>continues replying forever

Mad as fuck theosophist detected

>> No.14530044
File: 21 KB, 396x371, E35F15C2-5141-46E7-8900-8BAD9D8DEC05.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>I’m totally not mad u-ur a theosophist

>> No.14530055

so this is the power of advaita vedanta..

>> No.14530077

They point to the various verses in the primary Upanishads which ramanuja is supposed to accept as revealed sciptures, verses which deny the reality of the world of multiplicity and appearance that ramanuja affirms in his writings as being real

>> No.14530088

the ramanujans do the same in reverse

>> No.14530089

This thread is blessed

>> No.14530121

Impersonally I think Advaita is the inescapable exegesis of the Vendanta according to the plain meaning of texts, whereas theists like Ramanujans, Krishnaites, have to quote mine and distort the plain meaning of the text with (dis)ingenuous exegetical smokescreens.

>> No.14530128

nondualism isnt monism, but i wouldnt expect a retard who is more concerned with originality than truth to know that

>> No.14530167

I'm not saying that theosophy/perennialism is bad because it's not "original", I'm saying it's bad because it's new age syncretism.

Monism is one of the most common translations for advaita. Terminology is obviously arbitrary and conventional. Stop getting so mad because someone criticized your new age pseudo-religion you petulant pussy.

>> No.14530196

I’m not mad. I pity your lack of cognitive ability as your brain can’t grasp subtle differences like a low resolution image can’t represent details even if it tried really hard. It’s just not fit for it.

>> No.14530205

Learn English before trying to write three sentences just to say "you're dumb." You sound like a cell center employee getting pissed off and breaking down into Engrish.

>> No.14530214

Fine then, you’re dumb. Thanks for clearing that up.

>> No.14530223
File: 207 KB, 800x1060, sararj000045407-1_2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Yes, the Upanishads describe Brahman as the material and efficient cause of creation in many verses, but there are also many verses which deny the reality of the world of appearances and which trace it to maya, avidya etc. The Advaitan is able to reconcile both positions by maintaining that Brahman is the cause of the world and the source from which it emerges and dissolves back into but that Brahman only appears to create via its power of maya while in reality Brahman never undergoing any real modification or creates anything. To maintain that creation is real and takes place and that Brahman is the cause as Vishishadvaitins like Ramanuja do is to take the side of the verses describing Brahman as the source of creation while abandoning the meaning of the verses describing creation as unreal. Only the Advaitins explanation is able to take both verses in account and show how the revealed texts are consistent throughout whereas the vishishtadvaitin is forced to throw out one set of verses.

>> No.14530232

that's an interesting presentation of the advaitin religious position about why they are correct, thanks for that

too bad we don't have a resident ramanujan to defend their own position, then the discussion could get really interested instead of just hearing one side

>> No.14530277

That's better. In shorter sentences like this, your poor English will reveal itself less frequently, resulting in fewer embarrassments. Try reading something other than theosophy in order to practice your English skills. Perhaps a novel, or some real philosophy.

>> No.14530307

It indeed could get very interesting if somebody ever did study those positions and attempted to mount a serious defense of them on /lit/, but of course that would require them to actually study those arguments as opposed to only bringing it up when they want a foil to use in there arguments against advaita

>> No.14530339

sadly until such time as a ramanujan theologian arrives to dispute with the resident advaitin theologian regarding the absolute and mutually incommensurable truths of their respective systems, the best we can do is to remind interested onlookers that a religious person simply repeating that their preferred dogma is infallible or more perfectly logically certain is meaningless to those who do not already take that infallibility/certitude on faith

>> No.14530353

Is the trinity false? Is it actually the quadrinity?
Guenonposter (The father)
Guenonposter (The son)
Guenonfag (The Holy Spirit)
Guenonposter (The retroactive refuter)

>> No.14530473
File: 122 KB, 1440x1440, 72419048_145708786789177_5579535333586645935_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

So is his position basically reducible to this?

>1. metaphysical truth is one.
>2. metaphysical truth can be found in all orthodox religions once one strips them of the particulars and the historical/incidental exterior
>3. islam is orthodox.
>4. therefore the quran expounds metaphysical truth.
>5. Surah 112:3 says: "He [God] begetteth not, nor is He begotten;"
>6. therefore God has not and will not beget a Son.
>7. LMFAO Just kidding! If your christian believe in Christ as God and believe in the Trinity bro! That's perfectly traditional!!

Please tell me I made a mistake somewhere and /lit/ isn't just being retarded by worshipping someone who can't basic shit straight. There is no way 2 and 5 can both be true, unless he wants to claim that either the Quran is a mere historical contingency, or that God begetting a son is.

>> No.14530495

>>3. islam is orthodox.
So far so good.
>>4. therefore the quran expounds metaphysical truth.
False step.

>> No.14530502
File: 6 KB, 208x250, 1560978599457.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Who did this >>14530431

>> No.14530550 [DELETED] 

This is shitpost. Retroactive doesn’t mean what he thinks he means, if he means in the sense of preemptive, deterring, precautionary.
Preemptive means from the point of view of the present or last (Parmenides), affecting the future (Whitehead).
Retroactive means from the present, affecting the past. Every refutation is retroactive.

>> No.14530553

How is islam orthodox if its main revelation isn't metaphysical truth and merely a historical contingency? As I understand it, it is necessary for any religion to be based on higher reveleation if it is to be orthodox. What if not the Qur'an and the Prophet's words act as this revelation?

>> No.14530566 [DELETED] 

I guess I’m being pedantic. I’ll just enjoy the meme like everyone else.

>> No.14530577

You said it yourself
>metaphysical truth can be found in all orthodox religions once one strips them of the particulars and the historical/incidental exterior

>> No.14530578


>> No.14530586

>the particulars and the historical/incidental exterior
So the Word of God is a mere particularity/historical contingency? I sincerely hope this is just a retarded reading of Guenon and someone more knowlegable will come along with a better reply.

>> No.14530642

Wasn't he muslim though...?
Im not going to read him if I dont know his ideas beforehand. I dont have the time. Ive already read coomorswarmy and schuon.

>> No.14530660

>So the Word of God is a mere particularity/historical contingency?
Yes the Quran is. It didn’t exist before the 7th century AD.

>> No.14530667

>False step
did you even read the quran?

>> No.14530675

>Wasn't he muslim though...?
Sufi doctrine as expressed in the works of thinkers like Ibn Arabi reaches identical metaphysical conclusions as Advaita Vedanta

>> No.14530703

The faux pax is the jump from the premise that every religion contains metaphysical knowledge to the conclusion that the Quran contains metaphysical knowledge. The esoteric interpretation is always found the commentarial oral or textual tradition in the possession of the regular initiative order and is not publicly available; it is not contained in the exoteric religious texts.

>> No.14530723


>> No.14530737

>it is not contained in the exoteric religious texts
yes it is, did you just read the work of sufi scholars?

>> No.14530783

I’m just repeating myself now because I’m sure I already said this in the same thread, but here we go. This will be my last entry. Every orthodox religion has an exoteric and an esoteric part. The exoteric part is historic and contingent. All religious dogmas, rituals and morals are historic and contingent.
Is the dogma of the trinity a dogma? Yes.
Is the dogma exoteric? Yes.
Therefore the dogma of the trinity is exoteric and there is no contradiction from the esoteric point of view if there is another religion with a different dogma.
What is not historic, particular and contingent is the esoteric part which deals with pure metaphysics and the attainment of higher states.

>> No.14530793


>> No.14530819

>It didn’t exist before the 7th century AD.
The Word of God is co-eternal with God himself. It's the physical book/words that were revealed in the 7th century.

>> No.14530836

I've read Ibn Arabi but I feel like his work is seperate from Islam. The qu'ran is extremely non mystical.

>> No.14530857

>the word of God as revealed to Muhammad is merely an "exoteric" contingency
lmfao. is this really what neo-guenonian muslims believe? this is heretical to literally all of sunni islam. at least the jews have it straight and realize that their texts are true both on a surface level and spiritually/kaballistically (e.g. "Moses turned to the bush" literally representing both an action and a passage to a higher state of being needed to "talk" to God).

>> No.14530859

what made you say that? many passages talk about the nature of God and existence.

>> No.14530914

Yes, and this is a traditional doctrine too. But there is a different interpretation. Hindus, Jews, and even some Christian doctors believe the exact same about their holy texts. Hindus and Jews believe that the Vedas and the Torah are uncreated. Maximus the confessor had a doctrine that there were two incarnate logos, Jesus Christ and the Bible. The esoteric interpretation is this. There are two books, the actual uncreated book that existed with God always before time and the historical written book, but the former is not a literal book, but the esoteric doctrine. It is a orthodox Hindu exegesis that the uncreated Veda is the doctrine of the Vedanta, not the verses and incantations. In the Grail myth there is one version in which the grail is actually rendered gradalis and it’s a “book” (exoterically), namely the esoteric doctrine. This is the quest for the grail: initiation. This is the “book” that is before time: the doctrine, gnosis, wisdom of God, etc.

>> No.14530976

Not him but I find it ironic how all the Oriental non-dualist thinkers are extremely arrogant. Ibn Arabi with his "I talk to Jesus" and "I'm the second coming of Muhammad" and the whole "I achieved permanent union with the one" of Shankara.

Only the biggest egoists are non-dualist.

>> No.14530987

I think that's just you projecting onto them bro

>> No.14530997

Reported for slamming/flooding.
Neck yourself samefag

>> No.14531011


>> No.14531018

thanks for the bump friend :^D

>> No.14531045

Reported for spamming/flooding

>> No.14531140

How is "I am the second coming of Muhammad" not arrogant?

>> No.14531149

show me the passage in question

>> No.14531258

i really like guenons writing. there's no bs in it, no vanity. no unecessary words. no author trying to impress.

>> No.14531303

me too, i find him to be really endearing

>> No.14531582

He's a comfy read even though I'm not on board with everything he says. I don't think his followers are nearly as good (Schuon, Lings).

The biography The Simple Life of Rene Guenon by Paul Chacornac is very comfy and worth a read. Very short too.

>> No.14531620

Noooo you must be all guenonposter samefagging

>> No.14531658

Why is Guenon of all people a meme here? I know you want to say it’s because he’s a great philosopher and he retroactively blah blah blah.
It’s just strange that seemingly average people spend time spreading shitty memes of some unknown esotericist on the literature part of a Congolese water aerobics forum.

>> No.14531680

Why do you care?

>> No.14531923

H'es not really unknown. He was extremely read for a time (everyone from Andre Gide to Carl Schmitt) and is now experiencing a revival on /lit/, the literary avant-garde of the world.

>> No.14531954

got and ebook of it?

>> No.14531983

I'm actually going to read Guenon now thanks to you guys.

>> No.14531986

There's a french pdf floating around but it's really big and not pleasant to read on an ebook. Nothing else, I'm afraid.

>> No.14532049

I mean, you won’t regret it. It’s a good read, and straightforward too like >>14531258 said.

>> No.14532083

Is the same true of Judaism and Kabbalah?

>> No.14532107

Reading Guenon now and for 40 pages he's ranted about "Orientalists" and not by any stretch of the imagination "retroactively disproven Western philosophy." I skipped ahead 150 pages and found that word again three times on the page, so it's not looking good.

>> No.14532172

I have not studied Kabbalah in depth, but from the little that I have read about it there does seem to be many parallels between them.


>> No.14532183

he dismantles western philosophy in 'crisis of the modern world' and 'reign of quantity', his first book is just setting out some general principles because he gets to the meat and potatos of things in his later books

>> No.14532447
File: 765 KB, 1920x1278, 1578971099942.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

>he dismantles western philosophy

>> No.14532651
File: 24 KB, 263x400, 9780199555338.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]

Will the laws of manu teach me how to larp as a brahmin?

>> No.14533870


Name (leave empty)
Comment (leave empty)
Password [?]Password used for file deletion.