/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14260584]

>2020
>Not being a Marxist
>"dude anti-materialism, hacky idealism, pseudomyaticsm, abolishing technology, indulging in ideology, semen retention, having your asshole inseminated by adult males as initiation, black people sperm having magical qualities, ethnonationalism, old good new bad, mindless repetition of tradition (that has been tainted by the hypersphere), larping in other traditions, jewish psyops, spiritual racism."
uhhh frens?

[Anonymous No.14260592]

>>14260584
cringe

[Anonymous No.14260595]

>non-marxist
>indulging in ideology

[Anonymous No.14260606]

>>14260595
>material analysis of the modes of production
>ideology
you don't read theory do you?

[Anonymous No.14260631]

>>14260606
>le speculating about dialectical materialism is all marxism is meme

[Anonymous No.14260650]

>>14260631
What

[Anonymous No.14260654]

>>14260650
hmm?

[Anonymous No.14260799]

We are living in precarious times and people are trying to grasp at an ideology that they can that gives them an easy solution to their problems no matter how retarded that ideology is.

[Anonymous No.14260803]

>>14260606
>the fundamental assumptions behind historical materialism aren't ideological

[Anonymous No.14260806]

>innocent churches religious people and priests?
YEAH KILL EM

[Anonymous No.14260811]

We are living in precarious times and people are grasping at an ideology that they can that gives them an easy solution to their problems no matter how retarded that ideology is. The ideology you are describing is usually taken up by troubled young male incels that need to read theory.

[Anonymous No.14260815]

>>14260806
Not a commie but yes.

[Anonymous No.14260817]

>>14260606
materialist cringe

[Anonymous No.14260820]

>bro everything else but my beliefs are pure ideology
Gay

[Anonymous No.14260825]

>>14260606
7/10 bait

[Anonymous No.14260842]

>>14260803
Historical materialism hypothesizes a general law of motion, class struggle, which is tested and falsified during moments of revolution and practice. Theoretical frameworks are established by observation, pushed to their limits through testing, and when the time comes they are ruptured with by means of ideological line struggle. Because you don't read you don't know what "scientific" and "ideology" actually means.

[Anonymous No.14260848]

>>14260806
This isn't the 19th century. No one cares unless you are a dumb reactionary or fundamentalist.

[Anonymous No.14260860]

>>14260820
>traditionalism, ethnonationalism, and fascism arent all flimsy ideologies

[Anonymous No.14260867]

>>14260842
>he thinks his utopian prophecy is science
lmao. Yes the classless stateless society will emerge any day now

[Anonymous No.14260871]

>>14260848
>You are actually following the rules of your religion? ok these guys are fundamentalists kill em

[Anonymous No.14260882]

>>14260842
Don't you ever find it funny that anything that does not fit neatly into these theoretical frameworks is dutifully ignored? It's almost as if the fundamental assumptions behind these theories are flawed in some way.

[Anonymous No.14260887]

>>14260860
Almost as flimsy as communism

[Anonymous No.14260891]

>>14260882
What is ignored? Spiritual racism and semen retention?

[Anonymous No.14260896]

>>14260887
Nope. Marxism has a corpus of dense and intellectually rigorous theory backing it up. Same can't be said for your meme ideology.

[Anonymous No.14260904]

>>14260896
Marxism can't predict anything lol. There will never be a communist society larger than some gay 100 person tribe that doesn't own anything

[Anonymous No.14260913]

>>14260896
Marxism is for subhumans, you're a bunch of depressives, humanities students, and women. The impressive lists of French pedophiles who agree with you is anything but rigorous

[Anonymous No.14260919]

>>14260904
Uhhh fren?

[Anonymous No.14260922]

>>14260919
>china is a classless, stateless society
kek

[Anonymous No.14260923]

>>14260842
>Historical materialism hypothesizes a general law of motion, class struggle, which is tested and falsified
I'm glad you're admitting it

[Anonymous No.14260929]

>>14260584
The emergence of the national syndicalist heresy in Spain and Italy and the success of Lenin's deviant interpretation is enough to demonstrate that socialism, if it is to succeed at all, must occur in advanced capitalist nations. The fact that capitalist democracies were able to broker cross-class compromises and appease their middle and working classes is enough to show that this need not happen at all. What good is Marx?

[Anonymous No.14260950]

>>14260891
I cannot find a satisfying account of consciousness in any one of the marxist texts that I have read. If, as the marxists believe, all reality is merely matter in motion then how does explain the existence of a realm capable of conjuring up a vast number of these "ideologies" that have little or no resemblance to the conditions of the "real" world?

[Anonymous No.14260956]

>>14260922
Well they of course do not call themselves Socialist yet that is what "Socialism by 2050" in which you need a lot of class analysis to understand. Marxism is also not the antithesis of capitalism as many people mistake it is more Hegelian than that. school. As far as abolishment of private property, there are no major privatized industries in China, they are all supervised or answerable to the state. One could say land or property is leased to private persons or businesses, but the party still oversees all these operations pretty dramatically. Again, for better or for worse. A lot of private enterprises are actually just state owned and their CEOs are appointed by the party because running a company is part of the meritocratic path towards higher placement As for eradication of class, there's a lot to say about China's abolishing of poverty in the last fifty years, but even that statistic gets old if I use it too much. You can also look at the governing party for the people's congress. Of the over 2000 members of the congress, there are only 30 people who are owners of a private enterprise. The vast majority of them are people who come from relatively humble origins and are constantly reviewed for their performance that are tied to survey polls given out to Chinese citizens and ask about their performance. There's a lot of wealthy inequality, to be sure, but that isn't the same as abolishing class, that's a very important distinction to make. A lot of it also has to do with how poor a lot of the rural villages are. I haven't been there myself, but I have friends who do academic work there, and those environments are really bad and they can sometimes be in some of the richest provinces too. But maybe 10-15 years ago those provinces as a whole were really poor, so the hope is everywhere gets better eventually.

[Anonymous No.14260966]

>>14260956
>t "Socialism by 2050"
LOL
And you believe this?

[Anonymous No.14260969]

>>14260966

[Anonymous No.14260973]

>>14260969
You think in 2050 there will literally not be a state in china? You think everyone will belong to the same class? You're serious?

[Anonymous No.14260980]

>2020
>a year when no remotely Marxist states have existed for decades
lmao might as well be a Monarchist, at least Saudi Arabia exists and remains stable

[Anonymous No.14260981]

>>14260973

[Anonymous No.14260983]

>>14260950
They are conjured up by what is representative of a class, would be a short answer.

[Anonymous No.14260992]

>>14260980
uhhh fren?
>>14260919
it is very clear that marx's shadow has been appearing beneath our feet and for good reason. the limitations of the current system have been becoming more apparent.

[Anonymous No.14261018]

I like how the neoliberal system is going down for good now. At least in Chile all it took were massive violent protests. Now we need a bit of class consciousness and we're back to Allende 2.0.

[Anonymous No.14261028]

>>14260992
are china's muslim concentration camps Socialist because if they are I might become a commie

[Anonymous No.14261034]

>>14260992
ok boomer

[Anonymous No.14261045]

>>14260896
Liberalism also has a dense amount of theory to back it up, yet it is wrong about many things. I think the problem with you marxists is that you refuse to read outside you own tradition and so everything you write tends to be a little myopic.

[Anonymous No.14261077]

>>14260956
The CCP is also comically corrupt and has just implemented the most tyrannical effectivr system of crushing individuality in history. But if all you care about is having big economy numbers goin on, then yes the CCP is great.

[Anonymous No.14261083]

>>14260584
>he submits to technique

[Anonymous No.14261108]

>>14260584
I too play Disco Elysium

[Anonymous No.14261112]

>>14261028
It isn't and it's not like I'm not critical of that aspect. Despite that, China has gone a long way from what they were.

[Anonymous No.14261171]

based frenposter

[Anonymous No.14261304]

?

[Anonymous No.14261311]

>>14260842
Yeah, but asia doesnt exist

[Anonymous No.14261319]

>>14260919
Really nigga, china?

[Anonymous No.14261345]

>>14261018
The story has yet to end my fren

[Anonymous No.14261516]

Bump

[Anonymous No.14261565]

>>14260983
Your answer doesn't even acknowledge the problem.

[Anonymous No.14261569]

>>14260956
This poster has a big heart, a fine intellect and a mighty penis.

[Anonymous No.14261576]

>>14261028
They are. Eradicating spooks is a part of scientific socialist practice.

[Anonymous No.14261627]

>>14260919
Weird, is marx nearly a religious figure now?

[Anonymous No.14261636]

>>14261627
>is marx nearly a religious figure now?
>nearly
>now

[Anonymous No.14262867]

communism in the modern age will just match if not accelerate the pace of the mouse utopia tier collapse of western civilization that's happening under capitalism. it may have been a better alternative to capitalism 100 years ago when social values were different but even then I would suspect that one thing would eventually lead to another.

national socialism is unironically the only way because its actually designed to work with human psychology and physiology in a healthy way to provide some of the economic benefits of both the capitalism and socialism without having your nation suffer the horrifying side effects

[Anonymous No.14264003]

Bump

[Anonymous No.14264028]

Semen retention works.

[Anonymous No.14264039]

>>14262867
you've been badly memed. read theory.

[Anonymous No.14264109]

>Marxism
>The Philosophy of half measures
All aspects of life must be dedicated to the furthering of state interests. No society built on capital can succeed because such a society breeds divisions and those divisions breed contempt and contempt breeds a desire to be separate from those you hold in contempt. Such a society is designed to fail. We must all coalesce into one unified entity. Every man must say, when asked; "What are you", he must say; "I am X and nothing else" and truly mean it. Then the world will know peace

[Anonymous No.14264146]

>>14264109
what would even be the point of that?
You might as well skip all the extra steps and just hook an electrode up to everyone's nucleus accumbens. Alternatively we could just nuke the planet, same end result.

[Anonymous No.14264159]

>>14260584
Marxism is good in concept, but nations don't exist in a vacuum. Any country that implemented Marxism would crash their GDP and have nothing to trade with other countries. They would fall into complete poverty as a result and living standards would be shit. Most countries don't have the ability to be self sufficient without trade. The whole world would have to become communist for it to have a chance of working.

[Anonymous No.14264160]

>>14260584
Imagine being a Marxist in current year

[Anonymous No.14264167]

>>14260584
Yeah, Marxism has a great track record

[Anonymous No.14264168]

>>14264146
What would be the point of life with one identity, or what would be the point of living in a world that forces assimilation? The point is the avoidance of strife. Don't tell me you believe suffering is necessary to know joy?

[Anonymous No.14264172]

>>14260584
Please don't co-opt wholesome frogs for your retarded politics. There probably isn't a group more retarded than Marxists in todays world, I mean it, honestly ISIS have more of a coherent and plausible doctrine.

[Anonymous No.14264182]

>>14264168
>Don't tell me you believe suffering is necessary to know joy?
of course I do.
But that's not really what I'm concerned about, I don't see why 'joy' should be treated as the highest virtue, if it only gives way to empty stasis what would be the point? What's the difference between perpetual peace and death?
Are you playing a character right now, or are these your genuine opinions, I can't tell?

[Anonymous No.14264218]

>>14261018
So from being the most successful Latin American state Chile will become the poorest? You need a new Pinochet, not a new Allende.

[Anonymous No.14264248]

>>14264159
>Any country that implemented Marxism would crash their GDP and have nothing to trade with other countries.

You can't implement Marxism as it's a descriptive theory, not a prescriptive one. Communism is prescriptive and relies on Marxist theory but that isn't true the other way.You can be Marxist and right-wing (though generally people say Marxian in that case). Raymond Aron or the French New right were Marxian and yet right-wing.

[Anonymous No.14264249]

>>14264218
OK boomer

[Anonymous No.14264255]

>>14264159
>The whole world would have to become communist for it to have a chance of working.

Marx made that exact point you know. Orthodox Marxist tend to consider that the socialist states of the 20th century were bound to fail.

[Anonymous No.14264276]

>>14260606
The dialectic presupposes that there is an end utopia humanity will achieve, just like Christianity hmm. Marxism is indivisible from communism, the material dialectic literally exists to show that communism will dialectically be reached eventually. Just like Hegel's dialectic existed to show that man will eventually realize himself as a free individual. Dialectics are nothing but ideological garbage because the thesis and antithesis are always manufactured to arrive at the desired synthesis.

[Anonymous No.14264296]

No, I don't like reading dead white males
Also, I don't know how to tell you this properly but das Capital was published in 1867
Saying people you disagree with believe
>Old good, new bad
is really hypocritical

[Anonymous No.14264299]

I have to admit that I'm not completely educated on modern Marxist thinkers but isn't historical materialism mostly debunked and based solely on the limited information at the time from Max Weber? While I still think Marx's analysis of how capitalism functions and the theory of the ISA and RSA are useful and modern materialist analyses should still be applied, many of the original notions like a linear history and the eventual end of history with a classless society seems likes idealistic hogwash that should be abandoned

[Anonymous No.14264303]

>>14264276
>proposes that there is an end utopia humanity will achieve
no it doesnt

[Anonymous No.14264339]

>>14264299
>isn't historical materialism mostly debunked
no. it's a very viable mode of study.

[Anonymous No.14264376]

Is this board really full of underage /pol/tards that don't read?

[Anonymous No.14264454]

>>14264376
>seething because of retarded ideology
lmao

[Anonymous No.14264466]

>>14264454
>"dude anti-materialism, hacky idealism, pseudomysticsm, abolishing technology, indulging in ideology, semen retention, having your asshole inseminated by adult males as initiation, black people sperm having magical qualities, ethnonationalism, old good new bad, mindless repetition of tradition (that has been tainted by the hypersphere), larping in other traditions, jewish psyops, spiritual racism."
Yea I'm the one with retarded ideology

[Anonymous No.14264496]

>>14264466
>thinking one thing excludes the other
lmao

[Anonymous No.14264506]

>>14264466
>the only way to make your ideology seem reasonable is to straw man everyone else's
epic