Why does the problem of evil make "christians" seethe?

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Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:25:40 2019 No.14236599 [DELETED]

Why does the problem of evil make "christians" seethe?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:27:35 2019 No.14236610 >>14236599 God’s love could not be made manifest in a world without suffering. Could the child love the parents who give him everything before he even desires it? How can he know their love without knowing what it means to lack something or to suffer?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:30:42 2019 No.14236624 >>14236610 First comment always fucking right /thread

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:31:46 2019 No.14236631 >>14236610 >BEING loved isn't so important, what's important is they KNOW I love them. Here, have some suffering to contrast with when I'm not causing you suffering. seems kinda narcissistic

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:34:15 2019 No.14236645 >>14236631 Its about contrast dumbass, there is no "yes" withour "no"

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:35:00 2019 No.14236656 >>14236631 But then no one would love God, and we would not fee his love for us. But look, people do love God, even though there is suffering. His ways are far beyond your own.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:35:01 2019 No.14236657 >>14236610 >How can he know their love without knowing what it means to lack something or to suffer? By God designing him so he can.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:37:47 2019 No.14236673 >>14236610 Love could just be an intrinsically positive thing, not a contrast to suffering. Also God is fucking omnipotent He could create whatever He wanted

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:38:35 2019 No.14236676 >>14236645 non-dualist pap, an infant recognizes pain and abandonment by its contrast with love, not love by its contrast with pain.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:39:37 2019 No.14236683 >>14236610 >all suffering is accounted for in God's moral calculus lol. spiritualized complacency. and besides, tell that to the animal kingdom.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:40:13 2019 No.14236691 >>14236656 >His ways are far beyond your own. >But we can interpret his will to such precision that we can fill a whole book with rules he wants us to follow.

Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:40:59 2019 No.14236697

>>14236657
>>14236673
God does not see value in such a static, boring world, else he would have created it. If you would think about this for some time, then eventually would come to the same conclusion. If you praise writers for creating stories of conflict, then why do you not praise God? Do you not see how meaningful and complex this world is? And through it all, God is glorified every day. Who are you?

Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:42:37 2019 No.14236717

>>14236610

this post is nothing but failure to distinguish god from the demiurge. if god's true nature is perfection and 'love', then any lesser emanations of that invites evil, until you have the hellscape that we live in. god's love (and nature) could be then considered to be pure and unconditional awareness. with this, it is mostly clear that while god may be in every emanation and multiplicity, you have to wonder how any love at all got into the demiurge's creation

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:42:59 2019 No.14236721 >>14236697 It wouldn't need to be static or boring though, it could just be awesome

Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:43:17 2019 No.14236724

>>14236691
All of that truth is revealed by men who were close to God. We believe this because of prophecies, miracles, personal experience, etc. But you are far from God in your heart, and you know little of the Bible, so you quickly come to incorrect judgments, and think yourself wise, though you are foolish.

Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:44:49 2019 No.14236733

>>14236697
>God does not see value in such a static, boring world, else he would have created it.
Loving without suffering is only boring if he designs it to be so, ergo he makes the boy suffer when he does not have to, ergo you accept that God is evil.

Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:45:26 2019 No.14236737

Why would God even make us? Literal playthings living out his personal fantady until he suddenly "leaves" us and we fuck around finding creative ways to kill each other for till the next "Woah sorry guys im going to factory reset the earth now".
The idea of an omnipotent God creating a world of suffering and pain only for people to come crawling to his knees for forgiviness is so flawed, and everyone seems to have their own opinion on what "God" truly means. How can a God even exist if no one can agree with it?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:45:37 2019 No.14236739 >>14236697 >man, this is so boring >let's get some genocides going in here based

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:45:51 2019 No.14236744 If God is real he must be pissed that his followers are so retarded.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:46:06 2019 No.14236747 >>14236721 >>14236733 It would be boring to God

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:46:43 2019 No.14236751 >>14236737 all christians are gnostics in denial imputing evil in any way, shape, or form to an omnipotent God of absolute light and Love is the silliest thing in the world. admit a positive, evil principle and be done with it

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:47:08 2019 No.14236753 >>14236717 Then describe what you think the world should be like, if God is perfect and loving.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:49:06 2019 No.14236765 >>14236747 Then you believe that God is not all powerful, since if God were omnipotent he could choose not to be bored by anything.

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Mon Nov 25 20:52:13 2019 No.14236782 File: 252 KB, 1080x1350, 1F9B3CC5-F567-411F-8DD0-52BC6F413801.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14236624 Then you admit it. God is an evil sadistic shit head. And/or incompetent /thread

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:53:02 2019 No.14236785 >>14236765 i dont think omnipotence is even a coherent concept

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:53:03 2019 No.14236787 >>14236753 it should be nothing at all

Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:53:13 2019 No.14236790

>>14236765
God only desires to be God, to be Truth. Your atheist fantasy worlds with overwhelmingly little qualities and contrast and complexity and meaning is a mockery of God’s omnipotence, not a display of it. Why not just write books with a few sentences? Authors could easily write without conflicts or development or themes, but they don’t

Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:54:32 2019 No.14236795
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>>14236599
>be god
>decide to be a personal god instead of an impersonal monad so that me and my creation can be friends
>literally the first humans i make betray me and their offspring for the entire course of history do the same
>jews ignore a third of myself
>muslims go turbo monist to hide from my personality
>christians and atheists think i'm a narcissist for wanting friends
>half of them prefer being friends with my mother than myself
>tfw looking at your own shit creation

Is God the most tragic figure that ever existed?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 20:56:00 2019 No.14236804 >>14236787 Then God would not be God. Such a world is illogical

Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:00:04 2019 No.14236827

>>14236785
It's one of the clearest concepts there is; it's literally self-defining.

>>14236790
>God only desires to be God, to be Truth.
That's not a refutal, it's also not Christianity it's a derivative of the stoic concept of logos. It's very evident that you were raised a Christian and didn't become one independently of your parents; you don't seem to have anything other than a surface level grasp of the metaphysics of your own religion.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:03:41 2019 No.14236842 >>14236827 >I AM THAT I AM God is Truth

Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:06:29 2019 No.14236856

>>14236804

how so? if god decided to destroy all of creation, would he no longer be god? what if he decided to never create anything at all? does god's ability to create lessen his pure essence in any way? the answer to all is obviously no. god is not subordinate to any kind of multiplicity in the world, so a world of nothingness would not be illogical. so the only option is to distinguish between god's pure nature, and the demiurge

Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:06:54 2019 No.14236859

>trying to fit a transcendent being into a simple logical equation

we cannot comprehend God with our human minds. all we can do is try to understand how this shit works through the sacred texts we have and hope we're doing the right things. Islam literally means ''submission'', and a proper muslim is defined as one who ''fears God''. idk about christians but for us, God doesn't have to be ''fair'' to us, cause fairness is a human concept. however through the sacred texts we can try to apply our logic to what's written there, and our conclusion is that there's so many ways (in islam) to repent, that those who go to Hell have absolutely deserved it. like, just doing your prayer erases all your sins from that day

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:07:25 2019 No.14236860 >>14236827 >It's one of the clearest concepts there is Can an omnipotent being create a rock that it cannot lift?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:08:02 2019 No.14236865 >>14236842 Read the OP.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:08:31 2019 No.14236866 >>14236631 >narcissistic Wait til you read the first commandment.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:09:21 2019 No.14236868 File: 16 KB, 578x433, 7032D519-516E-42AB-97BA-3F3E55A12909.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14236865

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:09:45 2019 No.14236869 >>14236599 In my experience, I saw many more atheists seething because the answer (evil is the absence of good) doesn't conform to their world views.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:10:02 2019 No.14236870 >>14236676 And, not him but, you recognize darkness by its absence of light.

Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:11:30 2019 No.14236876

>>14236859
>all we can do is try to understand how this shit works through the sacred texts we have
That's just as stupid. No sacred text can ever grasp god or properly get the grace of god across. Hegel's argument of describing god through negative statements is the nearest one can come to understand God.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:12:44 2019 No.14236883 >>14236869 How do you measure evil, then? Is doing nothing just as evil as killing?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:14:29 2019 No.14236889 >>14236876 Idk about others but the Qu'ran is quite literally God's words, as repeated by the Prophet Muhammad (sws). Of course it doesn't give a complete description of what God is but it mostly describes what we need to know.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:14:34 2019 No.14236891 >>14236866 >Commandments assumed to be listed in order of importance >First commandment "Thou shalt not take the Lord's name in vain" >Most important rule is to not invoke the spirit of god and fail in whatever it is you were trying to do Incredible.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:16:58 2019 No.14236901 >>14236883 I didn't understand your question, but I will try to explain my point of view. The source of all good is God because he is Good himself. So evil is everything that goes against his Will. Evil exists the same way empty exists.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:22:40 2019 No.14236937 How come the only accounts of interaction with God are from biblical times?

Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:24:23 2019 No.14236953
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>>14236889
Islam has a very, very bad conception of omnipotence. I do need to learn Arabic and study the Qu'ran, if only to form an actual argument based in the texts itself. There's just not enough time right now for me to do that. However I have read a lot of translated scholarly musings, and I'm extremely unimpressed. On top of the translated bits of the Qu'ran I've read in the past, I feel 100% comfortable with the assertion that Islamic metaphysics is extremely lacking. Any social spirituality has lost the plot.

Plenty of monotheistic religions believe their sacred text is the literal word of God. I want to propose that a being fully realized as God does not speak in text or through prophets.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:32:12 2019 No.14236997 >>14236901 You're treading into territory of negative ontology, but your original assertion is one of a neutral ontology. Nonexistence encompasses 2 different states, non-specific (neutral), and anti-polar.

>>	a_poor_sinner !!eiHxl4pZe1i Mon Nov 25 21:32:48 2019 No.14237001 File: 214 KB, 1200x823, jackedaquinas.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14236599 It doesn't.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:34:42 2019 No.14237009 >>14236901 I don't understand what you're talking about and I fail to grasp any problem on my explanation.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:35:09 2019 No.14237012 Evil is the absence of good

Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:35:26 2019 No.14237014

>>14236953
>I do need to learn Arabic and study the Qu'ran
Absolutely, it's a great read.
>I have read a lot of translated scholarly musings
Most scholars don't know what they're talking about. I personally use the Qu'ran directly, unless my problem is too precise, then I'll refer to a scholar, but still take it with a grain of salt.
>Islamic metaphysics is extremely lacking. Any social spirituality has lost the plot.
I haven't researched about that enough to answer, but could you explain a bit what do you mean by that ?
>I want to propose that a being fully realized as God does not speak in text or through prophets.
Well, He has to send a message somehow in order to advise humans. Written text seems like the ideal mean to do that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:36:35 2019 No.14237018 >>14237009 meant to>>14236997

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:37:55 2019 No.14237026 >>14236937 If any of those biblical figures existed in the modern day, Christians would immediately commit them to care and medicate them for insanity.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:39:04 2019 No.14237033 >>14236795 Must be the most self hating because he knew exactly everything that would ever happen yet did it anyway

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:39:36 2019 No.14237037 >>14236891 first commandment: 2 I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery. 3 You shall not have other gods beside me.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:39:56 2019 No.14237041 >>14237012 Reflexively, the absence of good is evil. God created the world in such a way that good is absent to a degree. Why is God evil to that degree?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:40:14 2019 No.14237042 >>14237001 Aquinas, the king of bad faith mental gymnastics

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:40:19 2019 No.14237044 >>14236876 There's hadith about understanding God by knowing His attributes, which are His names of which there are 99(?).

>>	a_poor_sinner !!eiHxl4pZe1i Mon Nov 25 21:40:59 2019 No.14237050 >>14237042 >ad hominem good argument Aquinas btfo

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:42:14 2019 No.14237058 >>14237050 He made up his mind before even making his argument. That's not how you are supposed to do philosophy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:42:31 2019 No.14237059 >>14237041 I'm not sure that is the correct dichotomy. Evil would be a rejection of good or a rebellion against good, with reference to the fall of Iblis, may Allah curse him.

Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:42:50 2019 No.14237060

>>14236795
>literally the first humans i make betray me and their offspring for the entire course of history do the same
>literally the first humans I make I lie to and manipulate for my own petty amusement, and out of sheer childish rage I curse the creature that revealed the truth to them forever

Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:43:31 2019 No.14237066

>>14236599

>a cast-out, rebellious creation paired up with naive nascent humans and switched paradise for calamity
>people still commit to this team-up in the year 20xx

the devil masquerades around as the Father in the OT. learn to rightfully divide the truth and you'll see that the actual One whom sent Jesus wasn't about that life

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:48:40 2019 No.14237087 >>14237044 Yup, 99. Each is a quality, like Generous, Kind, Powerful, etc. Fun fact, muslim people usually name their kids using one of those 99 names

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:53:08 2019 No.14237110 Has anyone unironically religious ever been convinced to atheism through argumentation? Has any atheist ever become unironically religious through theological discussion? What is the point of these threads? Why am I even here? brb gonna coom

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:54:59 2019 No.14237117 File: 65 KB, 1068x601, 1544850156189.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14237110 >has any atheist ever become unironically religious through theological discussion? Yes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:55:50 2019 No.14237123 >>14237060 >this is your brain in gnosticism

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:56:14 2019 No.14237124 >>14237110 Yes. Me. I turned atheist from observing Christians.

a_poor_sinner !!eiHxl4pZe1i Mon Nov 25 21:56:41 2019 No.14237126

>>14237110
>Has any atheist ever become unironically religious through theological discussion?
Probably.

>What is the point of these threads?
Philosophical discussion, allegedly. We have problem of evil threads almost daily. I'm slightly surprised the topic always catches on and hasn't gone the way of Pynchposting.

>Why am I even here?
You're not, you're cooming.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQms6ZZzM4I

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:57:30 2019 No.14237129 >>14237124 modern christians are faggots, try observing cooler people

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:58:11 2019 No.14237135 >>14237129 The other options are Muslims and Jews. I reject both.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:58:29 2019 No.14237137 >>14237110 Yes. Me. I turned Christian from observing Christians.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:59:00 2019 No.14237139 >>14237110 Yes to both. I'd argue more religious people turn atheist than vice versa but it's based purely on my own observations so could be wrong.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 21:59:56 2019 No.14237148 >>14237137 >afraid of the fedora meme

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 22:00:32 2019 No.14237154 >>14237135 yeah fuck jews, but why the muslims ? i swear we're not all bad

Anonymous Mon Nov 25 22:00:43 2019 No.14237155

>>14237110
There are people who give the impression of trying to turn people to their side but are really just preaching to their own side.
William Lane Craig would be a prime example for theists, I can't really think of an atheist example but I'm sure there is one.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 22:01:42 2019 No.14237163 >>14237154 by that logic, why the jews? i swear we're not all bad

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 22:01:50 2019 No.14237164 >>14237154 You have your own version of kiddie fucking like the Jews. >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacha_bazi

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 22:04:56 2019 No.14237183 >>14236610 >implying God couldn't have created children who understood without requiring the suffering >implying God isn't omnipotent You faithfags are the fucking worst. You can't even be consistent with yourselves from one statement to the next.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 22:05:12 2019 No.14237185 >>14237163 I'm biased because I want to nuke Israel. I'm sure there's good people among you but the bad far outweighs the good >>14237164 that's an arab problem, not a muslim problem. I'm muslim but not arab so yeah fuck these people

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 22:10:32 2019 No.14237220 >>14237185 >muslim >not arab A traitor to your race

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 22:14:42 2019 No.14237257 >>14237220 ? Most muslims aren't arab. There's like 300 million muslims in indonesia, 100 million in north african, even more in west africa, etc. Arabs, who live in the middle east, are a minority

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 22:15:32 2019 No.14237265 >>14237257 Yes, it applies to them too.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 22:16:13 2019 No.14237271 >>14237265 what's even your point

Anonymous Mon Nov 25 22:17:01 2019 No.14237281
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>God’s love could not be made manifest in a world without suffering.
>His ways are far beyond your own.
>God does not see value in such a static, boring world, else he would have created it.
>God is glorified every day. Who are you?
>you know little of the Bible, so you quickly come to incorrect judgments, and think yourself wise, though you are foolish.
>God only desires to be God, to be Truth.
>God is Truth
>You're treading into territory of negative ontology, but your original assertion is one of a neutral ontology. Nonexistence encompasses 2 different states, non-specific (neutral), and anti-polar.
Kill yourself, you circular, pretentious fucking abomination.

Anonymous Mon Nov 25 22:19:40 2019 No.14237301
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>>14237014
>I haven't researched about that enough to answer, but could you explain a bit what do you mean by that?
It actually plays into my answer to your next question:
>Well, He has to send a message somehow in order to advise humans. Written text seems like the ideal mean to do that.
Written text is the ideal way to do so for a being of limits, who is bound by the rules of nature.

God, manifested as the transcendental being, has no such restrictions. It is beyond the need to communicate meaning. It can convey ideas preemptively, and in any unorthodox manner (and the need to do so does not exist for God). Whether it is intuitively from one's birth, or upon inspection of the very fabric of reality. God can be found in the most gruesome murders, just as God may be found in the most graceful works of art. You needn't even know where and how to look, nor do you need the intent to look. God does not even need to "speak", it may come to you completely a priori. It is so completely beyond everything, that attempting to predict it or assert a necessity of any kind goes against the nature of what God even is. There is nothing that happens that God does not will. The assertion that one can act against God does not speak of God at all. It's the result of a doctrine, trying to push an agenda. It's a wooden puppet, a stand-in for God, to try and convince one to act according to the puppet-master's intentions. God made the agenda, and knows how the agenda will influence everybody it comes into contact with. Whether it works or drives people away, it was already known and intended. God's dogma is reality itself.

Everything there is, was and will be is utterly trivial and arbitrary to God. Any and all engagement with the material is without predefined reason, only reason that God willed there to be. Does God actually concern itself with your diet? Does God truly care if you blaspheme against it? Does God wish for anything? To answer yes to any of these is to de-elevate God. And that's at the core of it, pulling God down to our level.

If you truly want to know God, the first step to doing so is understanding that giving God personhood is insulting from our perspective. This is not to say that it is insulting from Gods perspective, God doesn't care. To understand why both of these are true simultaneously is to come to the very basic grasps of what it means to be omnipotent.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 22:22:35 2019 No.14237318 File: 105 KB, 295x422, plotinus.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] You put yourself here.

Anonymous Mon Nov 25 23:32:11 2019 No.14237703

>>14236610
>>14236624
>>14236631
>>14236645
>>14236656
>>14236697
>>14236724
>>14236739
>>14236747
>>14236753
>>14236782
>>14236787
>>14236790
>>14236804
>>14236827

Bad

>>14236657
>>14236673
>>14236683
>>14236691
>>14236717
>>14236721
>>14236737
>>14236744
>>14236751
>>14236765
>>14236785
>>14236795
>>14236842

Good

>>14237110
Yeah Antony Flew was the promulgator of "assume atheism until otherwise given evidence" which devolved into "atheism isn't a position! It's just privation!". That dude went Christian before he died. Wrote some books about God being real.

Christians in this thread should make use of the argument that evil is not a force in itself, evil is only the privation of the Good. I don't like that argument, however, since I don't think "evil" and "good" are very coherent. Everything's just chaos man and you have to fight the chaos with inner sacred fire

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 25 23:37:57 2019 No.14237741 >>14236599 What is evil?

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Mon Nov 25 23:53:39 2019 No.14237814 >>14237703 >bad Then we’re back to the beginning. This is why there’s a problem. Gnostics saw the problem and had it ironed out. The early heretics drove the whole church doctrine over the cliff by denouncing them. ADMIT IT

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » !mxvabIoSIE Mon Nov 25 23:55:35 2019 No.14237822 >>14237741 That which is or breeds sin, perhaps? (Heh. I say as I watch some girls eat each other out)

Anonymous Tue Nov 26 00:01:59 2019 No.14237858

>>14237741
Evil is the lack (or privation) of a good that should be present in a thing. For example, blindness is a physical evil because it is the absence of the ability to see, which is proper to a human being. In moral terms, sin is the absence of a particular virtue in a person. As such, evil is not something that exists in itself; it is merely the absence of the good

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 00:05:52 2019 No.14237884 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alvin_Plantinga%27s_free-will_defense

Anonymous Tue Nov 26 00:21:49 2019 No.14237991

>>14236599
It makes them seethe because there is no coherent answer to it. They believe in a worldview that's trivially refuted by actually living in the world. And you can tell, because the counterarguments are just a bunch of weasely shit that amount to dropping omnipotence or omnibenevolence, but they're not REALLY doing that because of some semantic garbage they just threw together.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 00:24:50 2019 No.14238006 they do not have a high enough verbal IQ to dance around it like Jews do

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 01:06:52 2019 No.14238196 >>14236721 that's what Heaven is for anon

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 01:09:50 2019 No.14238212 >>14236866 bro wtf I wanted to worship the baby murdering and human sacrificing gods now I can only worship a loving and just god?! He sucks!!!

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 01:11:00 2019 No.14238219 >>14236599 Zoroastrianism and Manichaeism don't have to contend with the Problem of Evil because they're ditheist.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 01:12:34 2019 No.14238225 >>14236599 Because their G-d cowers before the retarded questions of a four-year-old.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 01:15:47 2019 No.14238237 File: 92 KB, 657x527, 1574233235100.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14238225 say His name

Anonymous Tue Nov 26 01:22:49 2019 No.14238261

>>14236599
>world full of suffering
That's very subjective. This is also a world full of love and beauty, people just tend to look at negatives more than positives. Listen to Louis Armstrong (or whoever you prefer) "A Wonderful World" anon.
Also I don't believe that 60-80 (95% of the time usually less) years of "suffering" is equatable to an eternity of joy and happiness in Heaven

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 01:25:06 2019 No.14238273 >>14236599 Back into the metaphysical and physical pyres with you, Gnostic scum.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 01:34:21 2019 No.14238319 File: 45 KB, 262x224, 1449435842712.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14237110 I was some weird mix of some days Deist some days Agnostic and eventually got convinced by theological discussions.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 03:00:16 2019 No.14238770 >>14236599 Based Gnosticist. Why dont orthodoxytards just admit that they killed off all of the real christians ages ago

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 03:02:27 2019 No.14238780 >>14236599 God saw it fit to let evil exist and to bring good out of it, all for His own glory.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 03:39:44 2019 No.14238910 >>14236610 Fpbp OP truely is a sodomite

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 03:49:55 2019 No.14238944 File: 6 KB, 226x223, 141241234.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14238910 >Suffering is the only way to appreciate Gods love

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 03:53:19 2019 No.14238964 >>14236599 Evil is non-existence bred by man's sin Suffering is the results of man choosing evil over good The original Sin is a metaphor meant to explain this ontological shift

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 03:59:32 2019 No.14238990 >>14238964 pics or didn't happen

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 03:59:34 2019 No.14238991 >>14236631 >seems kinda narcissistic Narcissists never care about anyone but themselves. God does.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 04:01:43 2019 No.14239005 >>14236599 The "problem" of evil is a problem because of false assumptions. All evil is the cause of human (in)action. suffering =/= evil

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 04:04:15 2019 No.14239020 >>14236860 >defining nothing as something every. single. time.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 04:07:13 2019 No.14239039 >>14236997 >Nonexistence >encompasses pick one and only one

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 04:08:24 2019 No.14239045 >>14237041 >good is absent to a degree False

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 04:09:26 2019 No.14239050 >>14237058 >That's not how you are supposed to do philosophy. Yes you are.

Anonymous Tue Nov 26 04:11:18 2019 No.14239057

>>14236610
>hmm, i have the resources to give my pet a happy, healthy, ideal life
>but i need my pet to appreciate me for it, it's good for his character
>i'll just abuse him a bit so he knows how good he has it
>actually, i'll abuse him a lot, preferably endlessly
>yeah, how could he know my love otherwise
>remember, i'm doing this out of love

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 04:12:29 2019 No.14239062 >>14236860 Yes.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 04:12:40 2019 No.14239064 File: 223 KB, 680x340, fac.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14237183 >suffering bad

Anonymous Tue Nov 26 06:08:15 2019 No.14239338

>>14236599
Usually the only seething party are those that refuse to listen any serious discussion about evil. The very framing as 'problem' of evil already indicates there is little possible discussion.
Whatever is said will be met by a wall of 'suffering bad'.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 06:25:28 2019 No.14239369 >>14236599 it does not tho, Jobbers seethe at it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 06:33:44 2019 No.14239387 >>14236610 >God’s love could not be made manifest in a world without suffering. Not true, but the extent is shown the most here. This is not, and has never been thought of as the highest realm. No, this is more likely a realm of failure.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 06:57:24 2019 No.14239448 >>14238219 Which is why they're the truth, and infinitely more honest and sensible

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 06:58:34 2019 No.14239449 >>14237703 >Everything's just chaos man and you have to fight the chaos with inner sacred fire Nailed it. Ironically, it's the dualists who love God the most, because they're not so cowardly as to lump him in with the darkness.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 07:03:14 2019 No.14239459 File: 1.57 MB, 960x960, no.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14238261 >just watch this TED talk bro

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 07:51:34 2019 No.14239592 >>14239459 If that cow had gotten back to the other cattle and told them of their grizzly fate, it'd be labeled anti-owner (vs. antisemite), tinfoilhat conspiritard.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 07:52:27 2019 No.14239597 >>14236782 that picture perfectly matches your post, it does sound like something a try hard goth teen girl would say

>>	« Ƹ̵̡Ӝ̵̨̄Ʒ » Tue Nov 26 08:47:17 2019 No.14239786 >>14239597 And the ancients plainly admitted to themselves.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 10:12:17 2019 No.14240060 >>14239786 >butterfly is a Gnostic Admittedly based

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 10:14:06 2019 No.14240065 >>14237991 Yup, based.

Anonymous Tue Nov 26 10:51:14 2019 No.14240216

>>14236869
Not an atheist but the answer being "evil is the absence of good" brings up a problem. You cannot say that good can exist on its own, because good is only defined by what it is not, which is evil (as evil is defined by what IT is not, which is good). Another anon brought up the point that darkness is but and absence of light, but is not light just an absence of darkness. You cannot have one without the other, they co-exist and define each other (obviously I mean more as concepts and not as physical things like photons). The world is made of opposites that must have one another in order to exist. If the universe were all good, then we would not know what good is (which makes a fair point towards answering the problem of evil, however I don't know how a God that is all good actively permitting evil in the world squares up) and if it were all evil we would not know what evil is, because their opposites would not be observable, allowing us to know what those concepts are not, and by extension know what they are.
This problem extends into the very nature of God as well. How can God be entirely good? How can the base reality be something without an opposite to define it? Who is truly good, one that just is good, without any ability to do what is evil; or is it the one that has that capacity for evil and actively chooses to the opposite? These are obviously complicated questions that require complicated answers.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 11:09:49 2019 No.14240307 >>14237858 Why is good not the absence of evil?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 11:13:08 2019 No.14240335 What is the athiest explanation for "evil" is it just people bad or something?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 11:13:16 2019 No.14240336 >>14240307 It is. Read Schopenhauer.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 11:14:18 2019 No.14240342 >>14240335 >implying secularist insect people have coherent ontologies

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 11:17:31 2019 No.14240354 >>14240335 Where do you live that people go about like Disney villains, being evil just 'cause evil? Whatever you think is "evil" is almost always just someone acting out of their own interests.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 11:32:30 2019 No.14240411 >>14240216 See >>14236901

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 11:33:47 2019 No.14240414 >>14240354 I think you're the one living in Disney land, the "it's all shades of grey broo, people are just people broo" is an ahrimanic psyop.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 11:35:49 2019 No.14240419 >>14240335 Natural evil has a material cause (Earthquake because fault-line), Human evil is complicated.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 11:40:27 2019 No.14240432 >>14236901 Full exists the same way empty exists

Anonymous Tue Nov 26 11:45:48 2019 No.14240453
File: 396 KB, 1252x1600, oil-Saint-Augustine-canvas-Philippe-de-Champaigne.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>14236599
Stop viewing this world as something inherently desperate and awful, it's a thing of beauty with dark spots but overall it isn't a bad thing. evil things are committed and come about out of ignorance and are therefor involuntary.
All of this just seems like a phase to me. I was there aswell and it took me a pretty long time but I did find God. Not all of my questions have been answered but I've found my face in God and I'm a happier man because of it. Hopefully you go down the same path.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 11:53:53 2019 No.14240481 >>14240453 An inherently good world also has inherent bad.

Anonymous Tue Nov 26 11:54:23 2019 No.14240483

>>14240432
To expand on this. In order for us to have an idea of full, we must also have the idea of empty; and to have empty we must have full. If all possible containers in the universe were simply full from the beginning of time, we would have no concept of emptiness, because fullness would be all there is. Then, by extension of there being no concept of emptiness, we would have no concept of fullness. Both ideas are negated if one is removed.

Anonymous Tue Nov 26 11:57:43 2019 No.14240503

>>14240453
>Stop viewing this world as something inherently desperate and awful, it's a thing of beauty with dark spots but overall it isn't a bad thing. evil things are committed and come about out of ignorance and are therefor involuntary.

You're right, but only in the state of nature. That's the problem

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 12:03:50 2019 No.14240539 >>14240503 in that case you shouldn't blame God still, God didn't bring us out of a state of nature. You should blame individuals and movements for doing that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 12:05:10 2019 No.14240550 File: 91 KB, 480x515, eaenuvra6ye21.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14240539 I don't blame God, hes under attack

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 12:10:40 2019 No.14240588 File: 218 KB, 960x960, tumblr_p99pp7WbNa1suuc8do1_1280.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14236610 Utterly demonic, and Philosophically so most of all. Relativism is antithetic to all things Christian.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 12:13:08 2019 No.14240599 >>14236656 >But then no one would love God Catholics always give themselves away as beasts who hold love, reason, wisdom in contempt and respect nothing but violence.

Anonymous Tue Nov 26 12:21:10 2019 No.14240641

>>14236859
>we cannot comprehend God with our human minds

If you truly think this is so then you would not say it since it is an axiom of the highest order, on par with categorically claiming that you CAN comprehend God. You can only say it if you partake in the very thing you pretend to condemn.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 12:25:08 2019 No.14240657 Suffering is negative, but it is not “bad”. We suffer because we desire good to happen to us, and if we did not suffer, we would not know what is good. Also, if we didn’t suffer, we would not have motivation to improve our situation and become better.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 12:29:58 2019 No.14240684 >>14236869 No actual philosopher takes that bullshit excuse seriously, we are talking about “and his name was Einstein” facebook-tier garbage, not an actual theodicy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 12:30:58 2019 No.14240695 >>14240657 >if we didn't ride bicycles with rectangular wheels we would not know what round wheels are This is borderline Dadaism.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 12:31:57 2019 No.14240700 >>14236610 this cope

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 12:33:37 2019 No.14240715 >>14240695 Shit tier analogy. Good cannot exist without evil. Evil is whatever is not good.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 12:33:54 2019 No.14240718 >>14237033 based

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 12:44:25 2019 No.14240779 >>14240715 Disregarding that those sentences have no Logical connection, am I to believe that there is Evil is Heaven as well?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 13:29:25 2019 No.14241020 >>14236610 >How can he know their love without knowing what it means to lack something or to suffer? I dunno, you tell me. It's your stone age cult of desert rats, not mine.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 13:36:51 2019 No.14241054 >>14236673 >it could have been x instead of y, so that means God isn’t real

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 13:55:12 2019 No.14241142 >>14236599 juvenile picture

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 13:56:52 2019 No.14241152 >>14236599 >Why does the problem of evil make "christians" seethe? Yes, if by 'christians' you mean 'atheists, Gnostics and other Satan-worshipers'.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 14:00:35 2019 No.14241175 >>14241152 Slave morality cuckold detected

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 14:06:45 2019 No.14241205 >>14236599 The problem of evil has been solved for thousands of years, its not the fault of christians that atheist cucks want to stay living in their delusion.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 14:09:48 2019 No.14241225 >>14237110 I was convinced of theism through pure LOGIC. Only drawback is I don't belong to any particular religion.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 14:15:58 2019 No.14241259 >>14241175 Nice deflection, fag. Also, seethe more.

Anonymous Tue Nov 26 14:20:06 2019 No.14241283

>>14236599
It doesn't make them seethe because they usually rationalize it to themselves with some shit counter argument, it is very rare even among the brightest Christian intellectuals to engage seriously with the issue. I guess David Bentley Hart would be one exception.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 14:22:31 2019 No.14241297 >>14241205 >The problem of evil has been solved for thousands of years no it hasn't

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 14:22:41 2019 No.14241300 File: 483 KB, 1162x850, jew-gold.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14241259 I'm not the one who only exists to line the pockets of religious organizations. Remember to pay your tithe!

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 14:29:39 2019 No.14241337 >>14241152 >Why does...? >Yes nice reading comprehension

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 14:33:13 2019 No.14241352 >>14236599 Just fucking chill out with logic. Good is jot good by definition, in the proper sense god is jot anything. We say it's loving in order to have an access to it. It is only a way

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 14:38:43 2019 No.14241381 >>14240779 What part of my statement implies there is evil in heaven? Heaven is perfectly good, so hell also exists to be perfectly evil

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 14:41:02 2019 No.14241395 >>14241381 Are they communicating or are they separate?

Anonymous Tue Nov 26 14:42:31 2019 No.14241405

>>14236610
>God can't help the way the world is, it just is what it is. God isn't powerful enough to change the world! He's is completely limited by the nature of opposites! God can't make light without dark!
Why does this argument sound like an epic own to God every time I read it?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 14:54:45 2019 No.14241487 >>14240432 How so?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 14:58:04 2019 No.14241513 >>14241405 >Why does this argument sound like an epic own to God every time I read it? kek because it is

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 15:01:02 2019 No.14241538 >God gives you free will and a path of behaviour according to his will >You may or may not behave according to that will, not doing so is generally described as evil I don't see what's the problem here

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 15:01:03 2019 No.14241539 >>14240483 But how does this refute the nature of evil? Do you have a problem with it?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 15:23:23 2019 No.14241646 >>14236610 Based How can atheists be so fucking retarded?

Anonymous Tue Nov 26 15:36:50 2019 No.14241708

>>14236599
SUFFERING IS NOT INHERENTLY BAD.

Stop being retarded. Every person on the face of this Earth daily makes the choice of suffering over non suffering, Everytime you leave the bed, have social interactions, do exercise, read something, you are RISKING ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF SUFFERING, still almost everybody WILLINGLY engages in these actions.
YOU ARE RIGHT NOW CHOOSING TO SUFFER, being on 4chan risks all kind of emotional responses, feeling sad, angry, annoyed instead you could avoid it all and lie down into your bad and await the next day, BUT YOU DON'T.

Suffering is NOT inherently bad, THANK YOU GOD FOR MAKING ME SUFFER, THANK YOU FOR DRIVING ME TO BETTER MYSELF, THANK YOU FOR GIVING MY LIFE MEANING.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 15:40:21 2019 No.14241723 >>14241708 Men wanting it does not make it not bad.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 15:41:07 2019 No.14241728 >>14241708 lmao

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 15:42:39 2019 No.14241738 >>14241723 Wanting it or not is irrelevant, everything meaningful you do is based on suffering. Without suffering your life looses every meaning it could possibly posses, there is nothing to live for without it.

Anonymous Tue Nov 26 15:44:12 2019 No.14241745

>>14241708

POGROMS ARE NOT INHERENTLY BAD.

Stop being retarded. Every tyrant on the face of this Earth daily makes the choice of pogroms over non pogroms. Everytime you leave the palace, have political interaction, do legislation, drink something, you are RISKING ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF POGROMS, still almost every tyrant WILLINGLY engages in these actions.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 15:44:29 2019 No.14241746 >>14241728 Where is your argument? Think about how much suffering even love causes to people, does that give them reason to stop to fight against love?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 15:45:44 2019 No.14241753 >>14241746 Suffering is suffering. There's only escape or bootlicking cucks like you

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 15:46:47 2019 No.14241758 >>14241745 Your analogy fails totally as the subject of the progrom is NOT the tyrant. The analogy would be sensible if you replaced the tyrant with the people subject to the progrom, but obviously then the rest falls apart.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 15:47:50 2019 No.14241767 >>14241753 >Suffering is suffering Yes, and also all suffering I experience is a positive force. >There's only escape Yes, but most people do not kill themselves.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 15:48:52 2019 No.14241773 >>14241767 >also *almost

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 15:48:56 2019 No.14241775 >>14241738 You made the explicit argument that it IS relevant but whatever. "Because meaning" is just as absurd as "because wanting". >meaning or no meaning is irrelevant my dudeeeeeeeezzz XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD!!111!

Anonymous Tue Nov 26 15:49:43 2019 No.14241780

>>14241767
>Yes, and also all suffering I experience is a positive force.

Because it hasn't broken the skin yet. There is a hell faggot and it eats copes like yours for breakfast. Or be my guest and go roll your face on the stove if suffering is so positive

Anonymous Tue Nov 26 15:51:08 2019 No.14241788

>>14241780
>Or be my guest and go roll your face on the stove if suffering is so positive
Not all suffering is. I am not arguing for torture and if you think I am you are an idiot.

I am arguing that suffering in the abstract is neither inherently good nor bad.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 15:54:53 2019 No.14241808 >>14241788 Suffering in the abstract doesn't mean anything. Go roll your face on the stove and try to feel it.

Anonymous Tue Nov 26 15:55:41 2019 No.14241810

>>14241775
>You made the explicit argument that it IS relevant
I gave "people chosing suffering" as an example why saying that suffering is inherently bad is nonsensical.
It was less of an argument for my thesis then "you already believe what I am saying, at least you act like it".

I didn't try to derive the morality by it's popularity, I wanted to reasonably explain that, based on the actions of most people, they already believe what I am saying.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 15:56:47 2019 No.14241813 >>14241808 >Go roll your face on the stove and try to feel it. Again, if you think I am defending torture and self mutilation you are an idiot. Not all suffering is good , not all suffering is bad.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 15:57:22 2019 No.14241816 >>14241205 It literally hasn't, you retarded loser. The evidential problem of evil remains unabated in academic philosophy to this day.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 16:06:02 2019 No.14241866 >>14241810 Now it's "because conjecture", my God. Perhaps I have yet to acquire a taste for the fruits of your developmental suffering?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 26 16:06:55 2019 No.14241870 >>14236599 Positive disintegration would like to have a word with you

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/lit/ - Literature