/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.14142710]

This mogs everything

[Anonymous No.14142714]

*blocks your path*

[Anonymous No.14142733]

W&P was great but please read more.

[Anonymous No.14142767]

>>14142733
Name something better than war and peace

[Anonymous No.14142813]

>>14142733
Yeah war and peace is great fuck off

[Anonymous No.14142819]

>>14142767
The Divine Comedy

[Anonymous No.14142829]

>>14142819
lmao

[Anonymous No.14142831]

>>14142819
This guy has a point. What can mog the Divine Comedy

[Anonymous No.14142837]

>>14142710
Everything except Don Quixote

[Anonymous No.14142840]

>>14142831
Dante vs Milton?

Seems like Milton made more out of his fanfiction than Dante did.

[Anonymous No.14142852]

>>14142714
I know it's a hot take, but imo Les Mis is honestly better. Though at times it does border on hysteria, it's so much more human than War and Peace. Hugo is a better master of emotion than Tolstoy, who is perhaps a better craftsman. At no point in War and Peace was I truly moved, either to laughter or to tears. Maybe I don't have the subtlety of sensibility necessary to appreciate him and maybe Hugo is more obvious, has more in common with the paperback genre writer. At any rate, Tolstoy himself considered Les Mis an "enormous" work in his famous reading list and we live in a world where we don't have to choose between them.

[Anonymous No.14142857]

Anna Karenina is better

[Anonymous No.14142895]

>>14142840
Is Paradise Lost better than War and Peace, though? I for once think it is.

[Anonymous No.14143597]

>>14142852
I agree, even the prose is beautiful and trumps Tolstoy's dry realism. I will say that Les Mis is somewhat dated though with it's optimism for the 20th century and it's hot take on gender roles (Hugo acknowledges this in the book, so it's not too bad). I also think the book drags a little after Javert's death, but the book is practically over by that point anyway.

[Anonymous No.14143608]

If you see the history of man, you can divide it into periods of war and periods of peace. But when you see a period of peace, it simply means a preparation for a new war. It is not peace; it is just on the surface. The enemies were exhausted in one war, now they are preparing peacefully for the second war. Now the world is at peace, there is no war, but you can't see any peace anywhere. Everywhere there is fear of war looming on the horizon. Any moment it can explode.

Do you call this peace? Peace cannot exist between two wars; it is not the gap between two wars. Any gap between two wars is simply cold war - simply preparation for another war, and time is needed so the fighting stops. There will be peace only when after a war there is no other war. Not between two wars, but after one war, and the next war never comes - that is peace.

And my understanding about peacefulness is that it is not a question of being peaceful with anybody. The basic question is being at peace with yourself. Out of that, peace arises for everybody. So whosoever is ready to receive it, whosoever is ready to synchronize with your peace, there is immediately a meeting point, a merging and the fragrance of friendship.

I don't want the peace of a cemetery. Of course, there is a peace in a cemetery, too. All the graves are silent - no fight, no struggle, no quarrel. I want the peace of a garden in the early morning when birds are singing, flowers are opening, the sun is rising. There is music in it; it is not without sound. There are sounds, but the sounds and the silences together create peace.

I love peace, but it is not a political strategy. The question was political; hence, I immediately replied, "Never." We are peaceful, the neighbors should be peaceful. And two parties who are peaceful in themselves cannot create any hostility. There is no question of being peaceful with somebody. The basic question is about being peaceful, and we are peaceful. Our peace is not addressed to somebody, is not related to somebody. Our peace is our own experience. Our peace is our life.

We are peaceful - not to anyone in particular, unaddressed; it is our state, not a relationship. And there is only one living peace possible, that you are peaceful as a state, not as a relationship. The moment you are peaceful in a relationship, it simply means cold war. It simply means a cease fire for the time being,.

[Anonymous No.14143642]

>>14143597
>even the prose is beautiful

I think this is an unfair comparison (unless you're talking about the untranslated texts) since french is much closer to english than russian. The sieve through which the beauty passes has bigger holes with french than with russian, so it is quite possible that much of the original beauty in W&P is lost in translation. In fact, I can't think of a single translated russian work whose prose was noteworthy, whereas for french there are many (Flaubert, Camus, Balzac, even Dumas come to mind)

Les Mis is dated in the historical context but in terms of theme and in particular in the optimism is he always has for the human race outside of time and history, has always been in the mode. If anything it's even become refreshing in our post-ironic world.

[Anonymous No.14143644]

>blocks your path

[Anonymous No.14143689]

>>14143642
I totally agree about it being refreshing, but it's also hard to ignore that we don't live in the world Hugo describes anymore. The spirit of the people triumphed over the instutution of monarchism, but we now arguably live under a more elusive monarchy in the shape of corporate globalist hegemony that protects itself by claiming to be democratic. The fact that Hugo promoted both Socialism and Nationalism combined with faith in God is also largely ignored these days thanks to the musical being the most popular version.

The gender roles thing I mentioned is a personal grievance. I just find it funny when Courfeyrac talks about the merits of universal education, but then says that women should be deprived of education in the same speech. Still, much like his optimism for the coming centuries, Hugo was writing in a certain historical context, so I don't hold it against him too much.

[Anonymous No.14144116]

>eliminates your map

[Anonymous No.14144146]

>>14142710
>spirits you away to the mountains for 900 pages

[Anonymous No.14144352]

>>14143689
How fucking gay can you be lmao, muh women, muh corporate hegemony, muh people, jesus get the dicks out of your ass. and Tolstoy's Russian is better than Hugo's French you braindead anglo. I have rarely seen someone who needs to get punched in the face this badly

[Anonymous No.14144375]

>>14144352
You're pretty badass huh? I wish I was as hardcore as you!

[Anonymous No.14144391]

>>14144375
you 100% wish that you weren't stupid, undisciplined, and a bitch, but that wouldnt make you badass, it's the bare minimum.

[Anonymous No.14144423]

>>14144391
The virtuous opposites of those flaws didn't show in your ...4352 post of bile.

[Anonymous No.14144446]

>>14144423
>duh vertuus obozites
Jesus christ hit the gym and at least try to learn another language you disgusting pleb

[Anonymous No.14144512]

>>14144446
Both assumptions made here are wrong. I doubt that will make a dent in your arrogance anyway.
Also, 2 away from divine authority, ouch.

[Anonymous No.14144630]

>>14142710
what's the best translation for prose and closeness to the original text??
Maude? P&V? Garnett? Briggs?

[Anonymous No.14144658]

>>14143597
>gender roles
bruh what are you talking about. Why does everything have to be viewed through such a pozzed lens jesus christ

[Anonymous No.14145958]

>>14142710
tolstoyesque

[Anonymous No.14146271]

>>14143608
Hey retard, can you fuck off already? Or are you going to continue making a fool of yourself forever?

[Anonymous No.14146301]

>>14142767
It's not even top 3 of Tolstoy. Read more.