Is going vegan /lit/?

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Anonymous Mon Nov 4 07:07:07 2019 No.14110254 [Reply] [Original]

Is going vegan /lit/?

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 07:13:27 2019 No.14110264

>>14110254
That is, is your refusal to think about any of this the product of actual thought, or is it just that you don’t want to think about it? And if the latter, then why not? Do you ever think, even idly, about the possible reasons for your reluctance to think about it? I am not trying to bait anyone here—I’m genuinely curious.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 07:14:25 2019 No.14110268 my happiness is more important than a few animals, so no

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 07:28:05 2019 No.14110298
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Yup. There is a holocaust happening in out backyards right now and people don't even think about it. Meat eating is by definition the npc diet. Unthinking, unquestioning, unreflective, clear headed, no sense of empathy. When confronted the meat eater is surprised, seeps into cognitive dissonance, or tries to justify his actions using low brow ethics that they might not even believe in: "durrr my pleasure," "durrr top of the hierarchy," "durrr humane slaughter lmao." Take the first step in getting out of the banality and moving to a newer and more concrete form of thinking. Abolish the logic of capitalist industrialization. Get out of hierarchical thinking and start thinking rhizomatically. Other beings of this earth have their own unique ways and modes of aesthetic experience and if we don't recognize that and learn to live together with them in relationships that don't espouse ideologies of hierarchy there will be dire consequences which have already begun.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 07:32:34 2019 No.14110316 >>14110298 Based post. This is what I come here for.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 07:34:43 2019 No.14110322 >>14110298 Excellent post. Worst are the ones who complain about activists showing them pictures of slaughtered animals because that’s ”inhumane” while continuing to eat meat. Could there be anything more NPC than that?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 07:35:50 2019 No.14110328 Nope it follows slave morality. Humans are at the top of the food chain so we can do whatever we want. Veganism is for weak faggots.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 07:39:05 2019 No.14110339 >>14110328 t. underage twink

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 07:42:52 2019 No.14110348 >>14110328 What an embarrassing post. You literally don't know what slave morality is.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 07:49:12 2019 No.14110368 >>14110254 I honestly realize vegans are right and eating meat is highly unethical but I don't have the resolve to change. My only hope is for lab grown meat to become a thing

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 07:52:15 2019 No.14110379 File: 8 KB, 196x250, 53f.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14110254 Yes

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 07:58:34 2019 No.14110398

>>14110298
>Get out of hierarchical thinking and start thinking rhizomatically.
Mega cringe bro. Hierarchical thinking is the only thing that can give rise to absolute and tyrannical edifices like veganism. It's actually possible to simultaneously appreciate the existence of lower life forms AND exist in consumptive relationships with them; it has been done for tens of thousands of years. You've been precluded from realizing this because you've let a modern liberal utilitarian cconceptualization of morality tyrannise your mind. Eating honey, bivalves, fish, free range eggs and non-factory-farmed meat is perfectly good and natural.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 07:58:56 2019 No.14110401 >>14110298 Have you read Bookchin?

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:03:45 2019 No.14110418

>>14110398
>>14110398
This isn't morality, this is ecology. This is the philosophy of the future.
The only thing that makes consuming animal products sustainable is factory farming. Small free range farms are not going to sustain a population of 7 billion don't be silly. If factory farming goes so does the majority of meat eating.
Veganism is anarchic, not tyrannical or hierarchical.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:04:47 2019 No.14110422 >>14110328 yikes

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:05:36 2019 No.14110423 >>14110398 naturalistic fallacy

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:11:27 2019 No.14110437

>>14110418
Morality is ontologically prior to ecology.
Another thing that can make consuming animal products more sustainable is consuming less unsustainable animal products (red meat) and more sustainable animal products (bivalves, small fish). Man has existed sustainably in consumptive relationships with animals for tens of thousands of years.
Veganism is the forceful imposition of enlightenment and modern liberal scientific utilitarian conceptualizations of the mind on animals and morality on humans. Veganism is modern liberal tyranny of human consumptive habits.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:20:38 2019 No.14110459
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>>14110423
>NOOOOOO! THAT’S A FALLACY YOU CANNOT SAY THAT! FALLACIES ARE PROBLEMATIC!
Calling something a fallacy doesn’t allow you to magically win an argument, he’s not even using a naturalistic fallacy because what he said was literally true

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:20:47 2019 No.14110460 >>14110254 no, the brutality of slaughtering animals is what gives the contrast to the beauty of eating a meal

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:21:59 2019 No.14110464 >>14110437 Morality is a spook. We are living in a much different time. The scales are drastically different. Veganism is a revolutionary movement part of the broader liberational goal of Anarchism.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:26:26 2019 No.14110474

>>14110459
Let’s pretend for the sake of the argument that humans eating honey and bird eggs and drinking cow milk is natural (it isn’t). Now, why would that be good?

Bees are the only ones here that could be seen to benefit from it, but since being ”natural” equals good – according to you at least – why is artifical meat/honey/milk production acceptable? How is killing for food, when not necessary for survival, moral?

And you agreeing with something doesn’t make it correct or infallible.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:28:09 2019 No.14110480 >>14110460 Now this is a good argument for meat consumption. t.>>14110474

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:30:24 2019 No.14110488

>>14110464
Spooks are spooks.
What's more likely to happen: every human on the planet reducing their animal product consumption to zero; or moderating our animal product consumption to sustainable levels, substituting unsustainable animal products for more sustainable ones, localizing the animal product production process around preexisting communities etc etc.
Veganism is actually a neoliberal movement predicated on an enlightenment morality and theory of mind receiving patronage from the technocratic scientistic materialistic elite

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:31:53 2019 No.14110491 >>14110460 You must be living in a fantasy. It is all banality. Obese mediocre people and their fat stupid kids going out to mcadees.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:33:05 2019 No.14110495 >>14110474 That's not the argument though dumb cunt. The argument was that it was possible to exist in sustainable relationships with these food sources.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:33:35 2019 No.14110498 >>14110491 The true redpill is an IQ limit for access to meat.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:35:14 2019 No.14110504 >>14110464 cringe

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:36:18 2019 No.14110508 >>14110498 Unironically this. High quality red meat for all is a relatively new phenomenon. In an ideal world the lower classes would only have access to red meat once a fortnight. Much more sustainable and no need for factory farms.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:36:31 2019 No.14110510 >>14110495 No it wasn’t, you absolute nigger. Read the posts I replied to. They were about the morality of animal-consumption. Someone, maybe you, tried to defend it by calling it ”natural”. In conclusion: read a book, tranny.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:38:28 2019 No.14110516
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>>14110437
>Veganism is the forceful imposition of enlightenment and modern liberal scientific utilitarian conceptualizations of the mind on animals and morality on humans. Veganism is modern liberal tyranny of human consumptive habits.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:42:45 2019 No.14110535 >>14110322 >show the most gruesome examples of animal abuse >feel nothing now what

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:43:42 2019 No.14110539 No, going vegan has to do with your own thoughts and beliefs. t. anti-suffering vegetarian for 2 months aiming for vegan

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:44:41 2019 No.14110544 >>14110474 >humans eating honey and bird eggs and drinking cow milk is natural (it isn’t) Stop being a dumb vegan and reifying the (false) nature/culture dichotomy. It was btfo ages ago

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:49:28 2019 No.14110556 >>14110298 Basiert

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:50:08 2019 No.14110559

>>14110488
They are by definition not, refer to Stirner's Critics, but whatever it is a meme word anyway. Morality is just an abstraction with no bearimg on reality. Ecology as a basis for ethics is more concrete and gives a better understanding of the interconnections of social and environmental spheres.
What's more likely to happen is probably people eating lab grown meat, which is fine. But that still doesn't do away with the hierarchical frameworks of thought which coincide with the logic of industrial capitalism.
How is it neoliberal? Seems like you are just going through a lot of mental gymnastics. There is no veganism without the abolishment of hierarchical frames of thought that pertain to neoliberalism. Veganism is by definition an anarchic and liberatory movement.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:50:40 2019 No.14110562 >>14110264 This, internet connection severely reduces original thought.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:57:30 2019 No.14110579

>>14110268
>the unabashed hedonist

>>14110328
>the hierarchy AND slave morality cuck

>>14110398
>the "self-control is neoliberal" guy

>>14110460
>the jaded city rat who respects nothing

Now someone needs to claim that diet determines masculinity and I'll have bingo.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:58:25 2019 No.14110581 >>14110579 based

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 08:58:53 2019 No.14110582 >>14110328 Ok femboi now show me your feet

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:03:07 2019 No.14110597

>>14110559
Stirner is a retard. Nothing more needs to be said on the matter.
Ecology is just an abstraction. Who cares though. What matters is that morality is by defintion its ontological prior.
What's more likely to happen is people simply moderating their red meat consumption and eating more fish and bivalves. More efficient. Tried, true and tested. Done for tens of thousands of years.
Animal product consumption existed prior to industrial capital and the hierarchical frameworks thereof. Vegans dishonestly conflate meat eating as such with the mode of it we observe under capitalism.
It's neoliberal because it's neoliberal. Trace its genealogy. You won't see it converge with archaic conceptualizations of veganism. Instead you'll find powerful patrons; neoliberal tyrants, technocrats, scientists, materialists. No thought exists without patronage, and veganism's patrons are neoliberal.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:04:58 2019 No.14110603 >>14110579 How is moderating meat consumption lacking self control?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:07:54 2019 No.14110609 all vegans I know are mentally ill divas

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:08:40 2019 No.14110617 >>14110582 Feet

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:09:07 2019 No.14110620 >>14110579 >killing animals equals having no respect for them lmao you are retarded. I guess youre the faggot who thinks that bullfighting is simple murder as well

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:09:50 2019 No.14110624 >>14110597 Not even a fan of Stirner, but saying a spook is a spook just shows you are under read and talk about things you don't know about. Ecology is literally the basis of our concrete reality. Stopping here because this is full retard.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:12:20 2019 No.14110629 >>14110620 I actually meant to quote someone else, but I should probably add a square for the NOTHING LIKE A GOOD STEAK EYUP fags

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:13:39 2019 No.14110632 >>14110597 >trace it's genealogy Veganism was a thing since archaic times and part of some poo religions. Please just shut up.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:14:09 2019 No.14110635 12In it were all kinds of animals and reptiles and birds of the air. 13And there came a voice to him: “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:15:15 2019 No.14110640 >>14110597 also >saying materialists and scientists like they are a bad

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:17:55 2019 No.14110652

>>14110624
I will respond to the namedropping a meme philospher with something befetting.
The human discipline of ecology is literally an abstraction. It is not/does not give us access to pure unmediated Being, and its application is necessarily ontologically posterior to abstractions like morality and the desires that give rise to thereof.
>doesn't address anything else due to inability
Sropping here because this is double full retard.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:19:51 2019 No.14110661 >>14110635 Shut the fuck up christcuck

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:20:50 2019 No.14110664 >>14110632 >tfw ancient Hindus used enlightenment conceptualizations of the mind and morality to justify not eating animals You dumb nigger. There's an obvious discontinuity

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:23:11 2019 No.14110671 >>14110640 >the high priests of liberalism are good! OK mr. neoliberal vegan

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:28:31 2019 No.14110684 >>14110661 no

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:35:50 2019 No.14110704 >>14110620 >he thinks bullfighting is anything other than murder I'm so glad the practice, the culture, and the tradition is dying, my man.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:36:59 2019 No.14110706 >>14110535 >now what die alone, empathylet

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:39:10 2019 No.14110711 Vegetarian, maybe. Veganism is silly.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:39:59 2019 No.14110714 Life feeds on life. Boo hoo. Get over it.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:51:16 2019 No.14110724 >>14110706 I only apply empathy towards other human beings.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:51:37 2019 No.14110725 >>14110437 >>14110398 Why did you post the same thing twice?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:53:37 2019 No.14110728 >>14110724 And that's why you'll never, ever, make it.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:53:59 2019 No.14110729

>>14110652
>pure unmediated Being
pie in the sky bunk.
you literally live and are interconnected within an ecological framework there is no abstraction. the level of brainded in this post is astonishing.
>>14110671
>scientists and materialists are the high priests of neoliberalism
All ideology. You have lost any credibility now that you have outed yourself as a brain dead reactionary.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:55:01 2019 No.14110735 >>14110714 Life is robbery, but the robber needs justification.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:55:21 2019 No.14110739 >>14110724 Name the trait(s) separating humans from animals that, if present in humans, would cause you to say it’s okay to murder them by the trillions at the cost of the environment and the general health of the population.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:57:38 2019 No.14110747 >>14110739 name the trait(s) separating animals from plants

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 09:58:49 2019 No.14110749 >>14110747 Sentience Now you

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:02:02 2019 No.14110761 >>14110609 I'm vegan. Pretty smart though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:02:49 2019 No.14110766 File: 10 KB, 300x300, Wagner with hat.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14110254 No, but Vegetarianism can be.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:07:38 2019 No.14110785 >>14110368 Eating meat is not unethical. Just eating meat from factory farming.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:08:55 2019 No.14110789

>>14110368
Just decide to stop. You "know they're right", but you won't truly know until you've interrogated the reasons that they're right-- that reasons being that since there is no evidence that consciousness is an emergent property, the question of whether animals are morally valid in comparison to humans is most likely a question of magnitude, not of quality. Essentially, are animals closer to plants (which are definitely ok to eat) or to humans (which are definitely not ok to eat). I think that in all the most relevant ways, they're closer to humans. They have nervous systems, and brains, and the mammals which we eat clearly have emotions. Given that emotions are the stimulus under which we conduct the majority of our actions, I'd say it's difficult to argue that a thing which can feel them is different enough to be eaten, once you dispose of the notion that consciousness is emergent and all the qualifications like language and culture that emerge with this fiction.

Milk and eggs are not necessarily as haram here-- humans are made to pay their way through productivity, and animals are dumb enough that self-determination probably doesn't register highly on their list of priorities. Of course, these must be obtained without undo harm inflicted.

To conclude, many female pigs live and die in narrow troughs without ever seeing the light of day. Imagine being that pig. Is it so difficult to imagine that it's ok?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:11:17 2019 No.14110797 >>14110735 >Life is robbery No it isn’t.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:17:40 2019 No.14110825 Lit is getting psyoped by nasty femoids ITT. Eating meat is lindy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:18:15 2019 No.14110829 >>14110739 A soul.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:19:46 2019 No.14110836 >>14110829 Evidence, please

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:20:39 2019 No.14110843 >>14110829 Metacognition, right? Elephants recognize themselves in mirrors, cows respond to music, and some birds can use tools >>14110797 You have much to learn.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:21:22 2019 No.14110849 >>14110739 >if present in humans Yeah- if they weren’t human. Lol.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:22:18 2019 No.14110856

>>14110829
1. There’s no proof that animals do not have souls
2. There’s no proof that humans have souls
3. If there was a human being with the exact same feelings, emotions, mental states, aesthetic appreciation, upbringing, community spirit, etc. as other humans but lacked a soul, would it be okay to just murder him?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:22:32 2019 No.14110857 >>14110849 Tautology is the always last refuge of the fucking retarded

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:22:40 2019 No.14110859 >>14110843 >birds can use tools sauce?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:23:55 2019 No.14110868 >>14110849 Child slavery is okay because children, like animals, do not have a developed self-concept.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:24:09 2019 No.14110870 >>14110298 Well said anon. To realise that killing animals is wrong is a great move towards higher levels of morality and consciousness, exactly what the world is so lacking of nowadays.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:24:16 2019 No.14110871 >>14110859 What is this, reddit? Google "bird using tool"

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:24:37 2019 No.14110874 >>14110857 Your question is retarded. >Name the trait(s) separating humans from ants that, if present in humans, would cause you to say it’s okay to murder them by the trillions

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:26:07 2019 No.14110881 >>14110868 That has exactly zero to do with classifying a human as a member of the human race.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:26:20 2019 No.14110883 >>14110849 That’s not a trait that’s a category. The word “human” signifies a being with certain traits. I’m asking what the trait is which gives them value but doesn’t give animals value.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:26:59 2019 No.14110886

>>14110874

The processing of relatively more complex emotions, more complex brains, a greater degree of awareness.

But as awareness is a matter of degree, not of quality, then it seems clear that cows are closer to people than they are to ants. Emotions, expressions, desires, behaviors.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:27:45 2019 No.14110893 >>14110859 It's everywhere. Google it. Also some fish can use tools. https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2011/07/diver-snaps-first-photo-fish-using-tools >>14110874 No, it isn't, it just exposes your silly (and likely 40K-inspired) anthropocentric bias.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:29:13 2019 No.14110902 >>14110883 No, the word human is a scientific classification. A human born with mental illness of physical deformations is still a human. Seethe harder.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:32:16 2019 No.14110913 >>14110902 Then what makes me a human being is my being a member of a totally abstract set?

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:34:06 2019 No.14110919

>>14110902
If you’re just talking about the taxonomic classification that’s an easy argument to defeat. Imagine if we had an alien species with exactly the same reasoning capacity as humans but did not have human DNA, would it be okay to genocide them by the trillions?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:34:34 2019 No.14110921 >>14110913 >totally abstract Embarrassing. Ironically you will not answer about ants for this very reason lol.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:35:03 2019 No.14110924 >>14110921

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:35:57 2019 No.14110929

>>14110902
Get off the board, pseud, I already said tautology is the last refuge of the fucking retarded. The fact that you continue to say the same fucking thing means you didn't understand what that meant, which means you're too dumb to be here. Get! Get! Yah! I salt you, snail! Get out of here!

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:36:04 2019 No.14110930 >>14110921 According to you, "human" is a category with no other properties than "we are scientifically classified as such"

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:38:04 2019 No.14110940 >>14110298 >rhyzomatic pls go back to discord

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:39:26 2019 No.14110944 >>14110749 I understand you mean a nervous system, but plants are also sentient in that they do actually have reactions to stimuli and preferences. To not see the same life in plants as in animals is to be short sighted.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:40:29 2019 No.14110948 >>14110940 I don't use discord other than to watch anime with a friend of mine. I also don't use twitter or any meme social media.. Face it. Deleuze and Whitehead are GOATs.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:43:36 2019 No.14110965

>>14110944
It's more short-sighted not to see the value in drawing the distinction. People still need to eat, but they no longer need to eat things as similar to them as animals. Moral circles have to expand at a controlled rate relative to our capabilities. Balance the assertion of human rights against the rights of the rest of the universe in proportion to our ability to serve each.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:47:32 2019 No.14110986 Why do vegans take the moral high ground? I don’t give a shit about suffering in the world, or what’s right or wrong, what would be the argument against me?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:47:42 2019 No.14110990 >>14110944 Plants do not feel pain nor are they conscious in any meaningful way. This is also why I think, aside from environmental concerns/intrigue, it’s not wrong to murder jellyfish or other small insects.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:49:16 2019 No.14111001 >bro let's just rip spirits out of the void and put them in nerve-prisons so we can murder and eat their bodies lmao How did I get here what is this

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:49:38 2019 No.14111002

>>14110986
The Golden rule. You'll get what you give. If I knew you personally, and you were a heartless bastard, I'd see it as a moral imperative to hurt you until you stopped being such a heartless bastard. People probably do this already, by shunning or otherwise detesting you. Assuming you're not full of shit, which you almost certainly are.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:50:00 2019 No.14111004 >>14110990 I just see life, why is your system better than mine?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:52:42 2019 No.14111014 >>14111002 How do I apply the golden rule to animals when buying out of a supermarket takes away the moral implications of killing. I know this is ideological but imposing morality makes me yikes.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:52:42 2019 No.14111015
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>>14110965
So the struggle to survive only constitutes your concern insofar as that struggle resembles your own?

Drawing the distinction between the response of plants to physical stress and the response of animals as your line in the sand of ethical considerations is no less solipsist than drawing the line at whether or not the animal is a simian.

You can't empathize with a plant like you can an animal, because the plant's experience is completely foreign to you, which is extremely hypocritical to the argument you're trying to make.

The only ethical diet is lithotrophy, and even that is debatable.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:52:48 2019 No.14111017

>>14110874
Your problem is that you think in an anthropocentric fashion. Ants are a collectivist species, not individualist like humans and horses and cows. It’s not wrong to kill an individual ant but wiping out a colony for no reason I’d say is cruel.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:52:52 2019 No.14111018 >>14110990 >This is also why I think, aside from environmental concerns/intrigue, it’s not wrong to murder jellyfish or other small insects. Just let things be you fucking runt

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:53:55 2019 No.14111023 File: 23 KB, 236x330, ialdabaoth.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14111015 >The only ethical diet There are no ethical diets friend, except for a plant's, but even plants "eat" sunlight. The ride never ends.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:55:12 2019 No.14111030

>>14111004
Not who you're responding to, but... Because you have to eat, and you have to decide what to eat, and by distinguishing between life of greater and lesser value, you are able to determine when cooperation is a better alternative than domination, and therefore better succeed in your goals. This is called "morality".

People are too soft now to eat animals. It's inconsistent with the high level of empathy and tolerance we display in other parts of our lives.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:56:11 2019 No.14111032 >>14111023 That is why I said it was debatable my friend. Also plants do not just "eat" sunlight.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:57:02 2019 No.14111036 >>14111032 I know, I'm not giving you a hard time, you're fighting the good fight. It's just all so tiresome.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:57:09 2019 No.14111037 >>14111030 There’s no availability of nutritious vegan food where I live and if I were to get it it would be much more expensive. How to cope?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:58:00 2019 No.14111042 >>14111015 It's a matter of degree. Things are never absolutely moral or immoral, they are more or less so. It's more moral to oppress a thing the less similar it is to you, because the role of life is to make things in its own image.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:58:46 2019 No.14111044 >>14110254 Killing one's self is true lit

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:59:11 2019 No.14111046

>>14111004
Life is not valuable in and of itself. It’s only valuable insofar as it provides an avenue for experiencing higher states of consciousness. Plants do not feel any connections, emotions, pain, pleasure, etc.
As for animals, I know a horse who recently had to be put down because he was dying of grief from his mothers passing, staying up all night screaming for her to come. And there are videos from slaughterhouses where the cows are jumping at the doors and screaming while their children are being dragged away by these murderers you support. It’s not something to be trivialised by silly “well what about plants they feel pain too haha” arguments.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 10:59:41 2019 No.14111048 >>14111037 There's nothing wrong with being a vegetarian, and if you cook it is universally cheaper. Meat takes more resources to produce and is therefore more expensive. Just avoid pre-made meat substitutes. Tofu is $1.50 a box.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:01:20 2019 No.14111056 >>14110986 Being no better than an animal, yet having the dormant capacity for conscientiousness, thus being a defunct fag

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:01:34 2019 No.14111057

>>14111046
>Life is not valuable in and of itself. It’s only valuable insofar as it provides an avenue for experiencing higher states of consciousness. Plants do not feel any connections, emotions, pain, pleasure, etc.

>human pontificating about the centers of other living things he will never know

Husbands and wives can't even understand each other, what do you know about it?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:01:52 2019 No.14111060 >>14111014 You're not the one applying the rule. When everyone else, who has empathy, goes vegetarian and vegan, they will treat you like a bastard if you don't.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:03:45 2019 No.14111075

>>14111017
It's not a matter of perspective, it's a question of the density of consciousness in the colony. If it's greater than a cow or a pig, it's definitely cruel. If it's less than most animals, it's probably not. Whether the consciousness adheres to a single body or is distributed widely makes no odds, it's all a question of magnitude.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:04:34 2019 No.14111079 File: 45 KB, 647x644, C1125448-8B0C-43EC-8C4E-C58814234ABA.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >dude humans and animals are indistinguishable but bugs and animals are distinct Why are there so many stupid holes on /lit/ this Monday morning?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:05:30 2019 No.14111086 >>14111079 Mutt burgers have made a sport out of """ethically""" justifying what they can or can't kill to themselves.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:07:07 2019 No.14111093 >>14111057 Sophistry is dumb

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:08:17 2019 No.14111097

>>14111057
Human pontificating? I think it’s pretty obvious what’s happening when cows are screaming while people at slaughterhouses murder their calves and drag them away. I think it’s pretty obvious the horse I knew felt a deep connection to its mother if it literally had to be put down after she died because of the grief.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:08:23 2019 No.14111099
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>>14111001
This anon gets it.
A vegan hipster would gladly eat meat if the earth's surface were 10x larger or if he grew his animals himselfc because they cannot fathom a higher worldview than the materialistic one. Based Schoppy

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:09:07 2019 No.14111100

>>14111079
How is this inconsistent. The only morally operative factor is the amount of consciousness that adheres in a being. If you can't distinguish animals and bugs, you can't distinguish plants and animals or humans and animals, depending on if you're carnivorous or vegetarian. The only sound system is a continuum

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:11:32 2019 No.14111112 [DELETED]

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>The only morally operative factor is the amount of consciousness that adheres in a being
>only
>morally operative factor
>amount of consciousness
What the fuck am I reading

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:13:21 2019 No.14111120 >>14111112 I'm sorry, this is a no retards allowed board. /b/ is that way - >

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:13:22 2019 No.14111121 File: 740 KB, 1280x720, vlcsnap-2019-11-04-11h12m05s123.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14111099 This universe is hell. Pray for the light.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:14:25 2019 No.14111129

>>14110254
>>14110298
Pretty much.
Any non-vegans, before you even begin to think about typing a post, please make sure your anti-vegan/vegetarianism argument isn't backed-the-fuck-up by this long list here
http://www.godfist.com/vegansidekick/guide.php

>>14110398
>Mega cringe bro. Hierarchical thinking is the only thing that can give rise to absolute and tyrannical edifices like veganism
Immediately stopped reading, but based on replies you argument is a naturalistic fallacy. Explain why being natural here is good (protip, it isn't)

>>14111079
Why would you eat bugs anyways? Bugs die in both livestock and crop farming so it's not as though being a meat eater is protecting bugs that much more if at all more.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:14:32 2019 No.14111130 >>14111121 Buddhacucks are the worst. If it sucks so bad, leave.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:14:50 2019 No.14111133 >>14111120 It should be legal to kill you

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:16:17 2019 No.14111143 >>14111130 Nah, I'm gonna stick around just to spite faggots like you.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:17:57 2019 No.14111152 I don’t hate on dog eaters

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:19:07 2019 No.14111163 [DELETED]

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>>14111129
>please make sure your anti-vegan/vegetarianism argument isn't backed-the-fuck-up by this long list here
Fucking thank you so much. The right wing always pretends to be on the side of logic but when my queer trans vegan bros drop facts on them they always retreat with their tails between their legs.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:20:36 2019 No.14111172 >>14111143 based

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:21:19 2019 No.14111176 >>14111163 Here you have it. The retard ideologue who can’t think outside of “us vs them” political discussion. Hitler was a vegetarian animal-lover. It has nothing to do with left vs right. Back to pol.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:22:00 2019 No.14111179 We could do with less red meat in general. Fuck off with eveything else though

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:23:11 2019 No.14111189

>>14111099
>materialistic one.

Implying that actually valuing innocent sentient life makes you materialistic, but that mindlessly killing and torturing innocent begins that have a will to both live and be happy, for your taste pleasure, convince, and selfishness makes you some kind of non-materialistic altruist?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:24:20 2019 No.14111198 >>14111189 >valuing >innocent >sentient

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:28:21 2019 No.14111221 So do vegans dont mind domesticated animals eating meat in general or do they think animals shouldnt be domesticated anymore?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:28:40 2019 No.14111222 >>14111198 >animals are morally responsible for their actions >but they aren't sentient Shut the fuck up you fucking retard

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:33:26 2019 No.14111250 >>14111133 Generally they think carnivorous animals shouldn't be domesticated any more. Dogs can be vegetarian, but most vegan vegans would say that's not enough

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:35:04 2019 No.14111261
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>>14111189
Read the post I was replying to >>14111001

I'm arguing for veganism, but it's important that one's motives for it should be of genuine compassion for the suffering of other sentient beings, not some ideological ecology.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:36:30 2019 No.14111276 >>14111250 I am a vegetarian. Why do vegans think it’s not good to be vegetarian? Chickens are gonna lay eggs and cows are gonna produce milk either way, you may as well use them.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:38:10 2019 No.14111295

>>14111261
If you don't think that post was motivated out of compassion for the suffering of living things, you either didn't actually read it or you're the one being ideological.

>>14111276
>you may as well take a chicken's eggs, not like it needs it

How soft are you?

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:39:43 2019 No.14111304

>>14111276
Well, I agree with the chickens, but cows only produce milk when they're artificially inseminated and kept in constant pregnancy, so that's a little tougher. Of course, if you believe abortion should be legal for humans it stands to reason it should be legal for cows, so why not at a certain point. But I'm not a vegan.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:44:47 2019 No.14111341 File: 24 KB, 300x300, 1559413100815.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14111295 By all that is good and pure in this world, may the unlimited one cure your pleb-tier reading comprehension. I'm agreeing with this enlightened anon.>>14111001

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:45:05 2019 No.14111345 >>14111295 What does a chicken need its eggs for? I don’t keep chickens myself but I know people who do and they take their eggs and the chickens seem to be doing fine.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:48:41 2019 No.14111370 >>14111341 All right, my bad, I thought you were calling the nerve-prison stuff materialist vegan hipsterism or something. I'm glad you understand, friend.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:50:54 2019 No.14111386

>>14110298
>learn to live together with them in relationships that don't espouse ideologies of hierarchy
Have fun on your lunch date with Bambi who will gore you to death the minute a female in estrus walks by.
Industrial farming is an abomination but the concept of subsistence/survival as a peaceful kumbaya is retarded effeminacy. We’re animals and always will be.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:52:08 2019 No.14111394 >>14111386 >Industrial farming is an abomination but the concept of subsistence/survival as a peaceful kumbaya is retarded effeminacy. We’re animals and always will be. Stupid pseudo-Nietzschean/capitalist class programming on full display

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:54:07 2019 No.14111406 File: 3.31 MB, 2000x2997, 1571896667056.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14111370 All 4chan lingo aside; I'm happy we're on the same page. Schopenhauer made me take up the diet.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:54:19 2019 No.14111408

>>14111386
>industrial farming
Kek. The old “I’m against factory farming even tho small farms do exactly the same stuff just on a smaller scale and I still support factory farming by buying meat anyway” virtue signal.
And obviously the other anon meant live together as in don’t brutally murder them by the trillions like we do now

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:56:01 2019 No.14111420

>>14111386
I didnt imply anything fantastical or highly idealistic, the language I used strayed away from describing such a thing. I'm not describing a disney cartoon.
>survival
do you live in the woods or a deserted island? if no you can survive and be much healthier not eating meat.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:56:36 2019 No.14111424 >>14111406 I am glad, too. I always think about what Schope said about compassion for animals and what it says about a man's character.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 11:59:38 2019 No.14111445

>>14110789
Animals aren’t one level of consciousness.
I rarely eat beef anymore (never pork) because cows are relatively intelligent and display emotional bonds recognizable to me, a human.
Meanwhile I feel almost nothing for chickens, who are essentially reptiles and have zero capacity for any “thought” past instinctive responses. Is this anthropocentrism? Probably. But the unethicality of meat seems to hinge on the suffering experienced by the animals- what capacity does a chicken (as long as it’s not in the worst factory farming conditions, or subject to a rare accident like improper slaughter) have compared to a cow, or worse, pig?
It’s the same reason you’d be upset if you ran over a raccoon in your car, but wouldn’t give a shit if a fly was buzzing around and you swatted it.

I do agree factory farming should be illegal and people should switch to venison for their red meat fix, but in America the potential of no more $2/lb steroid burger sales would be considered worse than 9/11

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 12:02:12 2019 No.14111462 >>14111420 B12

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 12:02:18 2019 No.14111465 >humans are animals Why is this unfounded assertation just taken as fact

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 12:05:03 2019 No.14111475

>>14111408
How is a chicken quickly getting its head popped off after a lifetime of doing whatever retarded shit chickens do as unethical as living in darkness and being gutted alive by a Maxican?
The only reason to ride the “grrr it doesn’t matter how much they suffer if you’re eating them!” high horse is if you’re vegan for environmental reasons, which opens a whole different can of uncomfortable worms.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 12:06:09 2019 No.14111483 >>14110739 This is the most embarrassing post I've ever read on /lit/

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 12:06:31 2019 No.14111484 >>14111462 eat fortified foods

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 12:06:39 2019 No.14111486 >>14111465 humans are animals only when its a convenient justification for eating meat, otherwise they're the imago dei, self-refulgent, come to save lesser species from themselves, amen

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 12:14:05 2019 No.14111528

>>14111484
There’s no barrier between this and
“Just eat s*y paste and multivitamins, it’s technically all you need to survive”
It’s not a being a Luddite to think a system that can’t even sustain life without modern technology is the “right” one.
Was veganism “right” before B12 fortification was practiced, when a vegan diet meant anemia and malnourished children?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 12:14:33 2019 No.14111532 >>14111484 >>14111462 Better yet, just take vitamin B12. The things are inexpensive and that way you can avoid processed foods for extra health gainz. >inb4 not natural Why would nature=good and just?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 13:22:14 2019 No.14111826 >>14110893 >anthropocentric bias Shocking, a human has an anthropocentric bias.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 14:17:29 2019 No.14112019 what do you vegans have against me eating the eggs laid by my chickens

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 14:22:20 2019 No.14112039

>>14111528
there were vegan writers in the past dumbo. check out tolstoy and Al-Ma'arri. b12 deficiency and no modern supplement is only a problem if you live in an very sanitized environment and all the things you eat have been pasteurized or 'sterilized' by washing it with chlorine water. by this time I hope you know that b12 is produced by bacteria in the soil can also colonize the colons of animals. animals themselves make absolutely 0 (zero) b12

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 14:23:23 2019 No.14112042 >>14112039 bacteria in the soil that can also colonize the colons of animals*

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 15:55:27 2019 No.14112498 Bump

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 16:04:47 2019 No.14112559 Knowing that Vegans intentionally kill their children by forcing on them a diet that makes them malnourished peeves me.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 16:21:50 2019 No.14112642 >>14111189 >Will to live and be happy Yes, both of these are materialistic considerations.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 16:30:49 2019 No.14112688 >spend half your food budget on pea protein and vitamins because le secular ethical framework >or don't and get malnourished because john oliver said supplements are a neocon conspiracy >ethical consumption extremely literary also fuck you

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 16:37:57 2019 No.14112727 >>14110254 No

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 16:40:25 2019 No.14112740 >>14110298 I have dominion over the animals and I do not value the lives of food animals beyond their ability to process plant matter into meat.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 16:45:44 2019 No.14112783 >>14110298 Veganism has been reterritorialized, and by the same forces responsible of the 'capitalist industrialization' you're rambling about. You're not a rhizome, you're a potato

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 17:18:13 2019 No.14112966 Veganism is the ultimate pleb filter. All the retards expose themselves when they try to give their brainded justifications for eating meat.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 17:32:07 2019 No.14113056 Calling all pro-lifers: become vegan! Be consistent!

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 17:39:44 2019 No.14113089 >>14110254 >not offsetting the ethical costs of meat consumption by donating a humane animal charity or volunteering

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 18:25:32 2019 No.14113313 >>14110254 quick reminder that caring about anything is gay

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 18:26:25 2019 No.14113317 >>14110254 sometimes

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 18:57:10 2019 No.14113455

>>14110729
>you literally live and are interconnected within an ecological framework
Ecology is a discipline of the humans sciences (an abstraction) which is itself an abstraction premised on other abstractions. You are a retard.
>>14111129
>but based on replies you argument is a naturalistic fallacy
How about you think for yourself, sheep. It's not a naturalistic fallacy.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 19:00:44 2019 No.14113469

>>14111099
Exactly this. There is an obvious discontinuity between archaic veganism and the veganism we observe today. The latter is predicated on a scientific, materialist reductionist conceptualization of the mind, and an enlightenment utilitarian morality, and is sponsored and propagated by the neoliberal technocratic elite.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 19:03:35 2019 No.14113478 >>14110739 Trait = status as universal historic food source. Defeated.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 19:08:21 2019 No.14113497 >>14113469 >propagated by the neoliberal technocratic elite. Less than one percent of the population is vegan. Get your head out of your ass. Stop being a lazy fuck and stop eating meat.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 19:10:52 2019 No.14113508 >>14113455 Ecology is the relational study between organisms and their environment which isnas concrete as you can get.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 19:13:28 2019 No.14113520 >>14113497 Most vegan activist groups are funded by powerful neoliberal foundations with ulterior motives. Open your eyes.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 19:16:10 2019 No.14113530 >>14113508 Still an abstraction. As are the ideas of "relations", "organisms" and "environments". Archaic vegans were vegans without need of this modern scientific materialist notion of "ecology".

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 19:16:35 2019 No.14113531 >>14113520 There is literally an enormous market for animal agriculture plz stop being brainded.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 19:20:02 2019 No.14113548 >>14113531 Markets do not emerge spontaneously. They are created and mediated by powerful actors. Please stop being a libertarian (worse than brainded)

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 19:20:48 2019 No.14113551 >>14113530 Yes, and they are ordered and fashioned so that they match up with our concrete reality. I know this is some tradfag I am talking to, plz read real books, thx.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 19:25:55 2019 No.14113583 >>14113551 >our means of ascertaining reality are ordered and fashioned in such a way so that their products match with reality Do you not see a problem with this? Read an epistemology or phil of science 101 book, retard.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 19:29:15 2019 No.14113594

>>14113583
Philosophy is the critic of abstractions. Its function is the double one, first of harmonising them by assigning to them their right relative status as abstractions, and secondly of completing them by direct comparison with more concrete intuitions of the universe, and thereby promoting the formation of more complete schemes of thought. It is in respect to this comparison that the testimony of great poets is of such importance. Their survival is evidence that they express deep intuitions of mankind penetrating into what is universal in concrete fact. Philosophy is not one among the sciences with its own little scheme of abstractions which it works away at perfecting and improving. It is the survey of sciences, with the special objects of their harmony, and of their completion. It brings to this task, not only the evidence of the separate sciences, but also its own appeal to concrete experience. It confronts the sciences with concrete fact.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 19:33:29 2019 No.14113616 >>14113594 Thanks Professor Pimple. But did you know that other very smart cookies have formulated different definitions of philosophy? Who is right, who is wrong?

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 19:59:16 2019 No.14113723

>>14111129
>Explain why being natural here is good
Spoken like a true lefty. Everything your warped worldview engenders is either oblivious to nature or a direct affront to it. But your lot isn't the first and won't be the last to debase and collapse an entire civilization.

>Immediately stopped reading
Also a sure sign of a leftist. You know, that cotton in your ears took some poor bees months to cross-pollinate. You're exploiting their labor comrade!

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 20:01:12 2019 No.14113739 >>14110254 Vegan is cringe

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 20:02:55 2019 No.14113747 >>14110254 Animal protein is an essential element of the human diet. Don't @ you vegan faggots.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 20:03:41 2019 No.14113754 >>14113747 It isn't though. Stop spreading misinformation.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 20:10:56 2019 No.14113787 Veganism is peak consumer mentality and therefore cringe and bluepilled

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 20:12:24 2019 No.14113797 >>14113754 But it obviously is we evolved hunting and eating animals. It's especially true for people in more northern climates

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 20:14:39 2019 No.14113804

>>14110254
>>14110298
It's so nice to see fellow animal-lovers on the internet. My love for animals and commitment to vegetarianism only increases my disdain for Jewish Religion (any and all of them), in which human beings are the only Divine creatures, and everything else is essentially leftover garbage that humans can do what they want to, since Yahweh the sadistic demon that he is created 99.9% of his species to be exploited by a single one. The Earth could be a paradise if we followed a non-dual spirituality that recognized the Divinity of everything, and the intrinsic responsibility of taking care of everything around us, from the Earth to other species. Not destroying or exploiting them, like Jew Religions promote.

I only became vegetarian a year ago, but I've never even looked back since. I feel such guilt having contributed to the meat industry my entire life. I wish I could change those decisions.

I am only one person. I can't stop the monstrous meat-industry from continuing to harm living creatures like it does. But I hope more and more people awaken to the horrors of the practise and become vegetarian at the minimum. Making threads like yours is a good way to spread awareness.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 20:34:15 2019 No.14113883
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>>14113804
Schopenhauer would agree with you about Judaism. I don't know how it's soaked into American and European attitudes like it has. It's evil. "Dominion" is right, and Genesis isn't shy about it.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 21:10:01 2019 No.14114021

>>14113804
>99.9% of his species to be exploited by a single one
So by your logic, snakes exploit rodents? In fact if you believe humankind exploits every other species on the planet, you must believe these other species exploit each other exponentially moreso since while humans spend a relatively small part of our day focusing on what's for dinner, these fuzzy litttle critters out there spend every waking moment obsessed with what to kill and eat next, and how to do it most effectively, with zero consideration for pain or ecological damage caused. It's only our intelligence that enables this sickening, pathological level of empathy.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 21:19:31 2019 No.14114072 >>14114021 humans have higher reason and thus responsibility to act on that reason. would you use this logic to justify pissing on the floor because that's what a beast would do?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 21:22:39 2019 No.14114087 File: 82 KB, 800x600, Field_dressing_a_deer_23.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] What do you call someone that only eats hunted meat?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 21:27:45 2019 No.14114112 >>14114087 brainded

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 21:28:46 2019 No.14114119

>>14113883
And since most people passively accept whatever ideal their culture presents them of the Divine, we end up in a world where the majority of people have not the slightest issue with human treatment of the Earth or other animals, but are enraged at the very thought of someone not sharing the same metaphysical beliefs as them.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 21:30:56 2019 No.14114128 >>14114087 Mmm imagine popping that sack with your teeth

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 21:33:09 2019 No.14114138

>>14114021
Snakes can't do anything else, either behaviorally or physiologically. Humans can both refrain from animal exploitation in behavior, and our physiology doesn't require their products either. That, in addition to the maximal resource consumption it requires and the environmental impact of it, provide many reasons why it should ideally be avoided.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 22:15:36 2019 No.14114327 >>14114087 If you literally live isolated from society and you have no other means to get food then I'd say go for it, that's an actual necessity.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 22:22:35 2019 No.14114360 >>14110254 For every animal you don't eat I'll eat three

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 22:23:12 2019 No.14114363 >>14114327 Rationale against the means of living is the greatest evidence against rationalized thought there ever was.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 22:27:36 2019 No.14114393

>>14114363
The point is that with the mass food production there is in the modern world is no longer necessary to consume animal flesh. But sure, our ancestors in the Paleolithic needed animal flesh during that time, there was no such thing as mass food production as there is today.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 22:33:53 2019 No.14114425 >>14113804 Did you know that it's possible to love animals AND eat them. It's been done for thousands of years. Bronze age man most definitely appreciated the animal world more than you yet he still ate them.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 22:35:26 2019 No.14114430

>>14114393
Not him, but you could make the argument that even if we stopped eating meet, we'd still be hurting animals by destroying their habitat to make room for farms. It's not "necessary" for there to be six billion humans on the earth or whatever the number is. Would you support sterilisation campaigns to thin the herd a bit?

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 22:38:12 2019 No.14114435 >>14114393 But that doesn't necessitate reducing our meat consumption zero. We could moderate our meat consumption to paleolithic levels, doing away with the need for factory farms. This is a more likely outcome than everyone going vegan.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 22:39:32 2019 No.14114441 >>14114430 We don't need more farms dude, who you think uses most of the farm land today? The billions of animals that eat in said farms, that are later are killed.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 22:40:21 2019 No.14114444 >>14111023 shuddup compton

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 22:43:48 2019 No.14114468 >>14110254 No, but fasting is.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 22:54:36 2019 No.14114529
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>>14114441
Even if we got rid of all livestock, farming would still have a massive, profound, effect on the environment. There is no way to wriggle out of this. We exist, we necessarily exist, at the expense of other organisms.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 22:57:31 2019 No.14114538

>>14114435
Sure I also think some sort of equilibrium is what everyone should strive towards. The massive shift in consciousness that such thing would require would be enormous though. We aren't perfect but we should imitate what perfection would look like.

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 23:07:04 2019 No.14114577

>>14114529
Eating less meat would make us more efficient. But ultimately I agree with you. Even if we become much more efficient (which we won't), the population will increase from its already dangerous level. A huge die-off is inevitable (unfortunately). If you think about it, the best we can hope for is that we fuck ourselves off before we entirely ruin the ecosystem.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 23:09:47 2019 No.14114591 >>14114021 >>14114425 He's explicitly talking about the meat industry, not Achilles eating a goat or whatever. Please try to read more carefully.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 23:10:27 2019 No.14114594 >>14114529 Actually is been proven scientifically that if we All adapted a plant based diet we could reforest large amounts of the global agricultural land.

>>	Anonymous Mon Nov 4 23:47:10 2019 No.14114761 >>14114591 Yeah but the remedy to the meat industry isn't going vegan, it's getting rid of the meat industry. Meat eating in and of itself isn't bad

Anonymous Mon Nov 4 23:59:26 2019 No.14114805
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Veganism isn't /lit/ simply because as shown ITT /lit/ is retarded. So much carnie rationalizing.

All you have to do is imagine the edgiest liveleak gore video, or to make it more relatable, that time your grandpa died from a really rare and horrific fucking disease that caused him constant pain. When you pay for and consume animal products, you are directly giving money to have this event repeated upon completely helpless, idiotic and faultless who can't even self-reflect, to an industrial degree that creates magnitudes of pain on an unthinkable scale. Like a million times the worst events in human history repeated every year. The suffering just looks different because it's not a human, but it still happens. That's what you say yes to. And it makes you a piece of dogshit on the level of anybody who ever bought a slave, or sold women into sexual bondage, or paid for/produced CP snuff films.

But we have all done this: I admit that I wasn't a vegan until adulthood, and to be fair I had no other choice, but that does not make it acceptable at all. Since we've all done it, we can just think of it as similar to original sin. You don't get to keep sinning just because

>gorsh well whaddaya gonna do ahyuck hyuk the world is crazy shit happens bro plus they're dumb and taste good

Stop being an evil faggot and change your behavior for once in your life. The simplest, easiest way to move affairs toward being less shitty on this hellish dirtball is right in front of you and if can't even lift a finger for that then you should reevaluate many of your other ideas about morality.

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 00:02:03 2019 No.14114816

>>14114087
I am a vegan but I pretty much consider hunters to be positive agents of euthanasia. Being a dumb animal means you will inevitably die an awful death and the best you can hope for is some human puts you out of your misery fast.

This is what bothers me about mainstream vegans, they tend to be hippie retards who have no solution for what to actually *do* with all these useless creatures once we stop torturing them, because they're effiminate and just want to hug a cow or something. Dunno, it's a tough situation.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 00:10:58 2019 No.14114840 >>14114805 Well, I guess its about your morality then. Personaly, I value people because they can engage in the social contract and nothing else. I find torturing animals distasteful, but thats it, distasteful.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 00:18:30 2019 No.14114871 >>14114761 Uhh how will you provide meat for 7 billion people without a large industrial chain that is right now providing 99.999% of the worlds meat?

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 00:24:00 2019 No.14114892
File: 64 KB, 663x663, 1570903948884.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>14110254
>aggressively contrarian
>presumes the vast majority of people to be subhuman p-zombies
>based on abstaining from or not doing something instead of anything proactive
>easily reduced to a cheap personal aesthetic or fashion choice
Yeah, I'd say it has all the hallmarks of a /lit/-approved philosophy. I love this website!

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 00:24:57 2019 No.14114895 >>14111037 Nigga do you realize how cheap rice and beans are? Just learn how to use spices and you literally have no reason to rely on meat to make your shitty cooking worth eating

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 00:51:10 2019 No.14114960 >>14110254 No. I was a vegan for several years. Then I realized, eating animals is the only thing keeping most of them from living in the first place. It's like abortion as some form of 'empathy'. You're better off eating meat raised organically.

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 00:55:59 2019 No.14114974

>>14114960
You're supposing they should be alive in the first place though. One can be a vegan and also recognize that sheep bred to be too heavy and end up with broken bones unless they are sheered should just not be. Euthanasia isn't anti-vegan, having this weird attachment to life at any cost is sorta like christfag's anti-abortion stance where they don't care about anything but the generation of more flesh because they value the social organism over individuals' experiences.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 01:14:47 2019 No.14115021 >>14110254 Killing plants is equal to killing animals.

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 02:43:33 2019 No.14115271

>>14114816
>inb4
>Not everyone can hunt so nobody should
>Killing an animal is never justified
>You don't need meat to survive

Yeah anon, I wish more people would have the balls to recognize this. There are many parts of the world where agriculture isn't that sensible thing to do and hunting, herding and fishing are the most efficient ways to get calories out of the ground. There is no reason for people in cold climates to stop harvesting animals and turn into a diet of imported goo.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 03:06:17 2019 No.14115307 >>14114805 I can't really imagine my grandpa being a beast, no.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 03:16:00 2019 No.14115324 >>14114805 I agree with you. There just isn't a way to say this without sounding self-congratulatory, and even if it does, suck my dick. But I agree with you and I'm glad you get it. It's just too much.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 03:31:06 2019 No.14115357 >>14114087 Locavorism is the only truely radical lifestyle today. There's nothing radical in buying Isreali made plant based burgers from a supermarket.

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 03:37:32 2019 No.14115366

>>14110739
Animals do not have the collective power to subjugate and consume humans, they do not receive the same status because the collective traits present in the majority of humans are not present in the majority of animals, but I know you did not ask this question in a legitamate fashion but instead as a trap to push your viewpoint. You will convince nobody here, I assure you

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 07:02:30 2019 No.14115743 >>14114895 >rice and beans I’m not some skinnyfat fag like you

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 07:46:21 2019 No.14115852 >>14114871 By the Earth's population collectively moderating its meat intake. I swear to God vegans are retarded.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 07:54:22 2019 No.14115867 >>14115852 Good luck with that faggot

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 07:56:27 2019 No.14115873 >>14115852 >mass populations >voluntarily moderating anything by their decision

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 08:03:03 2019 No.14115886 >>14115867 >>14115873 I never said it'd be voluntary. I'm sure you'll have better luck converting the entire planet to veganism.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 08:22:26 2019 No.14115926 http://aryanism.net/culture/veganism It's aryan

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 09:36:21 2019 No.14116102 >>14115021 There is something called sentience

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:02:09 2019 No.14116198 >>14115021 Does killing animals=killing humans as well then?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:08:32 2019 No.14116212 >>14115852 Yeah lets moderate the meat intake of 7 billion people. Are you retarded enough to think that tiny farms will supply meat for this many people? Do you not see how retarded you sound?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:10:30 2019 No.14116214 >>14115886 Not at all. Most people once they see what they are contributing to would probably consider veganism.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:12:31 2019 No.14116215 >>14116102 What would you know about it?

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:12:39 2019 No.14116216

Speaking as a non-debating Pescatarian who may go Veggie soon, I have to say the Vegans are making the better arguments in this thread. Are there strong rebuttals or is the Vegan position truly that air tight? Anyone know of good debates on the subject?

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:16:06 2019 No.14116221

>>14114529
The problem is too many humans. Veganism is just a side-issue - the usual virtue-signallers elbowing their way into the argument.

Happily, ecosystems can regulate themselves. At some point climate change will cause crops to start failing. There will be wide-scale famines in all the shithole countries. The human population will fall to a sustainable level. Gaia will thrive again. So stop worrying and order that Big Mac!

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:20:59 2019 No.14116235 Dude lets just toss 1000s of years of food culture out the door because some dumb animals dieing make me sad :(

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:22:23 2019 No.14116239 >>14116216 Veganism is the final redpill

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:24:31 2019 No.14116244

>>14113478
So if there was another planet where human beings with human DNA and the same level of consciousness have historically been the food source of an alien race, it would be ethical to unnecessarily murder them by the trillions?
>>14115366
>power
The government in your country has the power to come into your home, rape your wife, kill your children, pluck out your eyeballs, and eat your heart; would it be ethical for them to do so? The human race has the power to subjugate retarded people, lock them in dark holes, force them to breed, piss on them, set them on fire, and mistreat them for generations into the future; would it be ethical for us to do so? If your answer is no you have to name a different trait; if your answer is yes you have been reduced to absurdity.
>you’re not asking honestly!!
No the point of the question is to showcase your moral inconsistency. Some people say intelligence, for example, yet they do not think it’s okay to murder retards like we do animals. Others say “the ability to reciprocate the social contract” yet they would not be fine with genociding uncontacted tribes. Through this argument they are either forced to accept veganism, forced to self-contradiction, or forced to accept absurd positions like “it’s okay to farm and murder retarded people”. It has yet to be defeated.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:24:52 2019 No.14116246 >>14116235 people ate mostly grains back then and hunted for their meat. and big deal shit changes and we adapt to it. make up a new culture.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:27:55 2019 No.14116256 >>14116235 and you are obviously very short sighted and have an npc brain. they aren't dumb animals. they have cognition and have feelings. cartesianism and abrahamic religions were a mistake.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:28:41 2019 No.14116259 >>14110254 Going vegan is for basedboys.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:31:30 2019 No.14116270 >>14116256 Farm animals have been bred for docility for thousands of years. They have no more cognition than a tamagotchi.

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:32:18 2019 No.14116275

>>14116235
Conservatism is well and good when you're defending good cultural pillars that are necessary for our longevity or contribute to the soul of a culture, but some things should give way to change. Specifically things that bring about unnecessary evil and suffering

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:33:25 2019 No.14116284

>>14116216
>Pescatarian
Kill yourself
>Are there strong rebuttals

Vegans are deficit in B12:
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamaneurology/fullarticle/784788
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16219987

Vegans have weaker bones due to lower calcium intake and vitamin D3 levels:
http://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/486478
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21092700

Vegans have a worse memory compared to non vegans due to creatine deficiency in vegans:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21118604
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/14561278

Vegans have less gains compared to non vegans:
http://m.ajcn.nutrition.org/content/70/6/1032.full

Vegans are deficient in omega 3s:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16087975
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16188209
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12323090

Vegans are deficit in carnitine:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21753065
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1628441/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11043928

Vegans are deficient in iodine:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12748410
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21613354

Vegans are deficient in iron due to the fact that iron from plant sources is less bioavailable than iron from meat sources:
https://ods.od.nih.gov/factsheets/Iron-HealthProfessional/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11269606

Vegans are deficient in vitamin A:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19103647
http://m.jn.nutrition.org/content/137/11/2346.full
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/11/091118072051.htm
http://researchnews.osu.edu/archive/betacarotene.htm
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/71/6/1545.full

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:34:52 2019 No.14116290 Mixed diet is generally better for most people that dont have the time to worry about the weird minmaxing vegans have to do with their food if you dont want to end up scrawny. Overconsumption of meat is ofc bad

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:35:51 2019 No.14116294 It obviously isn't.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:36:50 2019 No.14116300 >>14116270 Dude just look at any video taping a factory farm. All of them show resistance.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:40:51 2019 No.14116321 >>14116300 So does a spider when you try to stamp on it.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:42:00 2019 No.14116326 >>14116284 Lmao you’re retarded. Vegan diets are perfectly healthy this is not disputed by anybody. There are a few nutritional deficiencies but this is EASILY accounted for with vitamin pills and the like.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:42:22 2019 No.14116327 >>14116321 And?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:42:35 2019 No.14116328 File: 24 KB, 321x354, i_kekd_4.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14116284 >mfw OP BTFO forever

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:43:37 2019 No.14116331 >>14116326 >OH NO NO NO You didn't read the links, did you?

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:43:44 2019 No.14116332

>>14116284
I get this argument, but we are capable of substituting animal flesh with specific vitamins. Your point would be valid when we were living in pre-modern times, but I could get optimal B12, D3. Calcium and Iodine levels with a couple of cheap pills after a meal and a glass of water to wash them down.

>Kill yourself
I'm sorry, I am working towards being a more ethical eater. Eating fish seems better than farming, they get to live a fishish life before a man's net or line brings about suffocation.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:44:06 2019 No.14116333 All the anti-vegans itt just sound underrage and dumb. Horrible arguments. Guess I will try veganism out.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:44:51 2019 No.14116337 I respect sacrificing your well-being and convenience for moral reasons, even if I do not share that morality do your thing if it makes you happy

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:45:13 2019 No.14116338 >>14116331 Before you (you) >>14116332, I'll actually read them. Sorry for the premature answer if I'm wrong

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:45:16 2019 No.14116340

>>14116284
What this anon >>14116326 said.
All you have to do is take B12, Calcium, and Iron, and a vegan diet is even healthier than a carnist one. Conveniently you forgot to mention that vegans live substantially longer and are much less likely to get heart disease.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:45:17 2019 No.14116339 >>14116332 You dont have to take pills for those. You can get all those in foods. Do b12 just eat fortified foods.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:50:18 2019 No.14116355 >>14110254 Not sure but going vegan worked out well for me and I'm enjoying it very much. I hope others can one day enjoy it too.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:52:14 2019 No.14116361 The slaughterhouse scene in berlin alexanderplatz is some brutal shit. Dont know if doblin was vegan or not

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:53:49 2019 No.14116368 >>14110459 >Calling someone out for using logical fallacy doesn't work If you use logical fallacies for an argument then your view shouldn't be taken seriously. Your argument is bad by definition.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:57:04 2019 No.14116377 >>14116361 Give me a rundown on this book. I've been thinking of getting it. Is worth reading in translation?

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 10:58:35 2019 No.14116383

>>14110474
>Let’s pretend for the sake of the argument that humans eating honey and bird eggs and drinking cow milk is natural (it isn’t). Now, why would that be good?
For cows they stick an arm up their ass in order to open their cervix to shove in semen. If this was done to a human it would be rape. Not only that but they are forced to be pregnant over and over to an unnatural degree which begins to degrade their bodies to the point of failure in which they are brought to the slaughterhouse after their miserable lives of being arm rapped, having their children taken from them, being sucked by machines and being confined to a tiny space and then are killed. I'd say it's a horrible life.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:04:05 2019 No.14116408 >>14111276 >Chickens are gonna lay eggs and cows are gonna produce milk either way, you may as well use them. Their lives are very horrible even in the case of the dairy industry. Watch the documentary dominion if you don't believe me.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:06:36 2019 No.14116426 >>14112019 Factory farming is the main issue and people like you who take care of their chickens and have space for them and treat them like family is a much lower priority but some vegans believe any use of animal products is exploitation.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:07:39 2019 No.14116430 >>14112688 >>spend half your food budget False, veganism is cheaper when you cook your own food.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:08:43 2019 No.14116434 >>14113520 That doesn't mean everyone who is vegan is.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:09:02 2019 No.14116435 File: 45 KB, 600x480, Sweating.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14116383 I'm on your side, but damn did you have to put it in such a sexy way?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:09:45 2019 No.14116442 >>14113747 It simply isn't. People can survive and thrive on plant based diets.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:10:05 2019 No.14116444 Whats with peanut butter, how come vegans never mention it

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:12:24 2019 No.14116451 >>14114892 >based on abstaining from or not doing something instead of anything proactive Sometimes choosing to not do something can be more productive than taking an action.

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:13:04 2019 No.14116455

>>14116377
Everything goes to shit for a shitty guy in a shitty era in a country gone to shit essentially. I may not be doing it much justice but its a great book. I read the NYRB translation and it was good with the weird idea to do some dialog in a cockney accent but its whatever.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:13:40 2019 No.14116460 >>14115743 If you understood nutrition you'd understand that it's easy to become fat on any diet if you eat an excess of calories.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:13:53 2019 No.14116461 File: 31 KB, 351x371, 1571969767572.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14116284 >hehe guys look this cherry picked ncbi Retard. In reality a Vegan diet done Correctly is the most healthy thing one can do

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:15:11 2019 No.14116463 >>14116235 >Tradition is the only way

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:16:13 2019 No.14116468 >>14116270 Listen to the howls of any cow after their child is taken from them. It's haunting.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:20:25 2019 No.14116478 No, it's going vegan.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:20:56 2019 No.14116481 File: 409 KB, 750x947, 1569520345174.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14116435 Defo read your post wrong but then wrote too much not to post it.

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:36:03 2019 No.14116542

>>14114816
Who wouldn't want to hug a cow? Such gentle and adorable creatures. I will absolutely hug one the next chance I can do so. Reminds me of a video I saw by some Western girl who travelled to India and was on the beach there, and a lovely cow was resting on the beach undisturbed. She began petting it.

Oh wait, here it is:
https://youtu.be/7GbYyqMN2Ss

How could anyone harm such a gentle soul?

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:41:50 2019 No.14116569

>>14116542
This presents much of my problem with killing animals for food, social herbivores like cows tend to be ill-deserving of what we do to them. If you can find me a consistently awful species to slaughter, something Chaotic Evil in D&D terms, then I'll butcher them for our collective sustenance and enjoyment

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:42:08 2019 No.14116571 >>14116340 >Conveniently you forgot to mention that vegans live substantially longer and are much less likely to get heart disease. Conveniently, you forgot to mention that this is because they're trust fund kids with health insurance.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:43:48 2019 No.14116579 >>14116461 Not an argument. Surrender accepted.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:44:49 2019 No.14116580 >>14116542 >Such gentle and adorable creatures. And delicious. Especially with horseradish sauce.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:46:01 2019 No.14116589 >>14111097 Did the horse tell you that was why it was upset?

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:47:39 2019 No.14116597

>>14116569
>social herbivores like cows tend to be ill-deserving of what we do to them
You mean like shelter them, inoculate them against disease, provide them with food and protect them from predators?
Animals get a far better deal from farming than they ever would in the wild.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:48:50 2019 No.14116603 >>14111097 >anthropomorphising this much Protip: Bambi was just a cartoon.

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:52:34 2019 No.14116616

>>14110254
The order of interaction that decides the victor of conflict and establishes hierarchies is a gift from the third divine hypostes, the reasoning principle and creator of time that arranges the imperfect fragments in the material world so as to allow for more accurate translation from the good and draws the entities in it closer to their authentic existents. By rebelling against this order and declaring the appropriate participation in it to be a natural evil you only draw this world further from the good and enslave it to fickle superficial pangs of the conscience.
That being said, imposing the cancerous capitalist industrial machinations further onto life is also vicious. There is a correct mean point and it's in a 90% vegetarian diet with occasional slaughter when the animals are reared ethically.

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 11:53:56 2019 No.14116622

>>14116597
Huh, that's actually an angle I've never heard or considered before. I guess they do owe us something for those services, as relationships must be reciprocal. Just as my child would owe me their obedience in exchange for their livelihood. Thanks, Anon.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:02:47 2019 No.14116660 Is lab meat a meme? Or legit?

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:03:10 2019 No.14116663
File: 148 KB, 988x1059, IMG_0991.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

NOOOOO ATILLA RAPED MY FAMILY, BURNED MY FIELDS, AND DECAPITATED MY FATHER!!!!! I CURSE THE WORLD AND NATURE, THE GODS ARE EVIL!!!! I HATE LIFE, HIERARCHIES AND VIOLENCE AND AM MORALLY SUPERIOR FOR DOING SO!!!!!
Stop projecting your vicous resentment onto animals you spiritual peasant, your decrepit condition is your own soulrot and not something nature participates in. Go and sling the dung that is your midwit pedestrian bugman life.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:07:04 2019 No.14116681 >>14116571 source: none it's because they have an average LDL of 70 when carnies are sitting at 130+ retard

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:07:20 2019 No.14116684

>>14116622
That isn't a good angle. They are bred only to have their children taken away from them, slaughtered, and be eaten by fat fuck neckbeard npcs. It is a whole cycle of suffering that is propagated by industrial capitalism. Life isn't a good in itself.
This is what happens to cows
>>14116383
It's not like they are living a nice life.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:09:09 2019 No.14116691 >>14116663 T. first worlder fat fuck neckbeard living in a heated house having everything paid by his parents

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:13:26 2019 No.14116709 >>14116256 animals are the closest existing thing to the concept of "npc"

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:13:37 2019 No.14116710 noble families have to stop giving money to their children, they have to give it to lowly servile plebs like me!!!!! inheritance is evil!!!!!!

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:14:11 2019 No.14116712

>>14116684
True, we are taking too many pounds of flesh for the service but I do think Anon is principally right to say they owe us something in exchange for care. If I'm not getting something out of a personal investment, then I'll only continue to put time or money into said thing because I'm under duress (i.e. giving taxes to a state to support people I don't think should be supported).

>>14116660
Currently a meme, but I see no reason why it can't take a market share in the future. It takes away the ethical issues, which is the strongest pillar of veganism. Ask /sci/ or /g/ about it

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:15:22 2019 No.14116720 >>14116684 >this is your brain on quinoa They wouldn't be bred at all if we didn't eat them, you dumb fuck. Farm animals owe everything, their very existence, to us. We're entitled to something in return.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:15:37 2019 No.14116721 >>14116710 there are no noble families. and implying you are noble lol. you are brainless tasteless petit bougeois.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:16:43 2019 No.14116727 >>14116720 Life isn't a good in itself.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:17:34 2019 No.14116730 >>14116721 There are in my country and I know several other Euro, Islamic and African states also have nobility. The USA isn't the whole world, thankfully

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:17:36 2019 No.14116731 >>14116709 I disagree, it means uncontemplative, even vegetal life can know to a greater or lesser extent the quality of the good, your average consumerist numale is potentially more an npc than a boar or cow

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:18:08 2019 No.14116733 >>14116709 Animals are totally aware and coincide with their condition, an NPC does not.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:18:11 2019 No.14116734 >>14116712 It's not care, they are bred to be slaughtered. They don't owe us anything. We are doing them harm by perpetuating a cycle of suffering.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:18:23 2019 No.14116736 >>14116727 So should we be animal antinatalists? Exterminate them all to save their descendants suffering?

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:19:13 2019 No.14116740

>>14116691
>projecting this hard
SJWs are the most mollycoddled first-world snowflakes ever spawned. Which is why they project their internalised middle-class guilt onto everyone else, and publicly flagellate themselves with self-denying doctrines like veganism. Fuck your bien-pensant bourgeois worldview.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:20:28 2019 No.14116745 >>14116720 Breeding something to kill and eat its body and expect it to be grateful is evil. You are ontologically defective.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:20:40 2019 No.14116748 >>14116731 >>14116733 animals don't ask questions

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:20:56 2019 No.14116752

>>14116736
You should stop eating animals. We have bred their population to a large extent so that we can sustain our meat eating. They will still exist but if the cycle is ever stopped of course it will result in many of them dying. But that is better than perpetuating the cycle put up by industrial capitalism.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:21:25 2019 No.14116755 >>14116727 Then why does every organism struggle to survive you dork.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:21:58 2019 No.14116756 >>14116740 you are currently shitposting on an incel anime site on your computer it is not a projection lol.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:21:58 2019 No.14116757 >>14116748 Because animals don't need to you soft shit

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:22:57 2019 No.14116760 File: 49 KB, 494x433, i_kekd_7.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14116752 >perpetuating the cycle put up by industrial capitalism It was put up by Neolithic humans you retard.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:23:56 2019 No.14116764 >>14116760 Neolithic humans didnt practice factory farming and ate much less meat. It's like your brain doesnt comprehend scales.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:24:43 2019 No.14116766 >>14116745 >Breeding something to kill and eat its body and expect it to be grateful is evil Evil is subjective. >You are ontologically defective Your illiteracy is objective.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:25:54 2019 No.14116772 >>14116766 Language games are for words

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:27:20 2019 No.14116778

>>14116720
Following this logic, if somebody has a dog living with them, and she is pregnant, then simply standing there and saying "When those puppies are born I am going to kill them all" would be enough justification for doing so. That of course is absurd. Basically, you are not in a position to determine the fate of an animal. If the argument is that some animals have been selectively bred for consumption, then again, that is not a justification. The entire process of selectively breeding them was done at the hands of humans, and all subsequent loss of life is at their say so and is entirely unnecessary.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:29:48 2019 No.14116789 File: 318 KB, 400x398, say_what.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14116772 >Language games are for words If you were playing a language game, I think you just lost.

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:32:08 2019 No.14116804

>>14116734
You and I were produced to be economic units and an unconsenting legacy for our parents, yet we still owe fealty to our various masters in life. I'll be honest, wageslaving for parasites both familial and strange causes intense hedonic anguish in me but such is life.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:32:11 2019 No.14116805 Lurker here. Vegans are definitely winning this debate. God you are all embarrassing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:34:22 2019 No.14116814 >>14116804 This is just capitalist logic. They are literally bred to be killed. We are doing them harm. I don't know what you don't understand.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:34:54 2019 No.14116819 >>14116805 Meat eaters literally don't have the arguments to fight with, either because they have never thought much about it or because there are none to be made

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:35:58 2019 No.14116821

>>14116778
>Following this logic, if somebody has a dog living with them, and she is pregnant, then simply standing there and saying "When those puppies are born I am going to kill them all" would be enough justification for doing so.
What strawman bullshit is this? I said "we are entitled to something in return." This is not an excuse for unnecessary cruelty.
>Basically, you are not in a position to determine the fate of an animal.
The fate of those puppies will be determined by the economic practicalities of rearing them all. If they're going to eat you out of house and home then it's better to drown them before they're conscious enough to know what's happening.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:36:35 2019 No.14116823 >>14116804 >>14116814 And animals and us are not merely economic units what the fuck lol. are you an npc?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:37:00 2019 No.14116825 >>14116819 Not an argument, but a definite irony overload

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:38:04 2019 No.14116833 >>14116814 >We are doing them harm. Plus a lot of good. See >>14116597

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:38:48 2019 No.14116835 >>14116821 Again this is just capitalist professionalist shit spewing bureaucratic npc bugman logic. You are what is wrong with the contemporsry world.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:39:41 2019 No.14116838 >>14116835 >buzzwords buzzwords buzzwords

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:42:27 2019 No.14116855 >>14116838 The scope of your logic doesnt look past the current economic boundaries. Instead of looking for something novel you settle in the logic of fhe current system which you see as all encompassing.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:45:50 2019 No.14116865 >>14116835 Not an argument. Rage more, faggot.

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:48:50 2019 No.14116874

>>14116835
>>14116855
I was on your side earlier, but now I'm beginning to side with the "carnies."

>logic doesnt look past the current economic boundaries
>capitalist professionalist
>logic of fhe current system which you see as all encompassing.
What in the flying fuck does this mean? I'm a native English speaker and I like to think I'm better read than average, but this does read like NPC Twitter bollocks. Explain it through the lens of pragmatics, not with a literal definition of the words

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:52:05 2019 No.14116887 >All rhe mental gymnastics itt because you bugmen are too lazy to stop eating meat

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:54:43 2019 No.14116892 >>14116855 >muh utopianism The real world doesn't care about your theories, kid.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:55:14 2019 No.14116895 >>14116874 Idk what is so hard too understand. Logic of capital ie. atmoising everything to economic units and profit motives.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:56:35 2019 No.14116904 File: 209 KB, 300x498, projecting.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14116887 Animals may be self-aware, but not you apparently.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 12:57:47 2019 No.14116914 >>14116887 >WAAAAH STOP COUNTERING MY ARGUMENTS BUGMEN CARNIES REEEEEEEEEEEE

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 13:01:42 2019 No.14116929

>>14116895
I guess I do "reduce" everything to their capital value, though capital equals all value rather than just currency/money. If something is not worth my investment, then it will be discarded.

If I was a shit boyfriend with too few redeeming qualities, I'd get dumped. If I can afford (both financially and emotionally) to look after puppies, then they won't be given up to a home or drowned.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 13:02:23 2019 No.14116934 >>14116720 That sounds very similar to the justification for slavery. Your argument is obviously wrong.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 13:05:18 2019 No.14116947 >>14116934 Humans are capable of self-determination. Animals are not. Ergo slavery has no relation to farming.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 13:08:00 2019 No.14116962 >>14116947 Who gives a fuck about your nerd suduku games faggot, it's a restriction of the animals range of movement end of story.

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 13:10:36 2019 No.14116977

>>14116947
>Your example isn't right
Ok, what I should have said is that I don't believe imposing your will on another living creature by putting their entire lives into a situation where we control everything about it justifies the horrors we commit against it.

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 13:10:53 2019 No.14116979

>>14116934
Just a bit of a tangent here. Slavery was a bad idea, even from a calculating economic perspective. It wasn't as cost effective as wage slavery and the productivity, at least on the agricultural front, didn't really beat that of employees and native families. Maybe the plantation owners wanted to build up a workforce faster than immigration would allow, I dunno.

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 13:11:20 2019 No.14116980

>>14116962
Why do animals want range of movement? Animals in the wild don't expend energy unless they have to. They move around in pursuit of food and mates, that's all. Farming removes this necessity for them.
>end of story
Kek. Keep stamping your little foot, prima donna.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 13:14:45 2019 No.14116997 >>14116977 >I don't believe Fine. Other beliefs exist. What was the point of your thread again?

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 13:18:07 2019 No.14117016 >>14116980 Either master bait or bugman slime

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 13:19:07 2019 No.14117021 >>14117016 Not an argument.

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 13:20:18 2019 No.14117026

>>14116752
I won't. If it comes to it, I have enough land to grow my own. And my many children will do so as well, and they will teach their children in time. I know the first reflex when someone talks about their successful family here is to doubt, but it really doesn't matter if you believe me. Meat eaters are more reproductively successful, and you will be returned to the dust you so envy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 13:23:06 2019 No.14117042 >>14117026 >All the seething and resentment in this post LOL

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 13:29:00 2019 No.14117070

>>14117042
What, exactly, am I supposed to be resenting? Eating meat is great. If I wanted to stop, if I actually gave a shit about the alien moral constructs you've assembled, then I wouldn't do it.

But please, go ahead and claim I'm addicted or helpless or something in a way that isn't actually consistent with a belief in free will.

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 14:05:20 2019 No.14117264 File: 1.75 MB, 448x450, kitty.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>14110298 based animal fren

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 14:28:47 2019 No.14117360

>>14111445
>who are essentially reptiles and have zero capacity for any “thought” past instinctive responses
This isn't even true of reptiles. Also parrots are extremely intelligent and capable of showing complex emotions, but by your logic they're "dumb reptiles" too.
https://youtu.be/p-zGIS-WWZQ?t=17

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 15:01:52 2019 No.14117540 >>14116460 wow mindblowing

>>	Anonymous Tue Nov 5 16:27:44 2019 No.14117995 >>14116198 Depends on how you apply ethics. If it is immoral for the animal to kill you, it is immoral for you to kill the animal. Otherwise it is not.

Anonymous Tue Nov 5 16:40:28 2019 No.14118072

>>14116340
>>14116461
>>14116681

Fucking stop comparing the most ideal vegan diet done right with the standard burger diet. You say healthy veganism is easy but in reality many vegans end up with crappy diets since they are like all other lazy fucks. It's becoming more and more evident as vegan junk foods are becoming the norm. Obviously most meat eaters are fat slobs but it's also easier to be healthy eating some animal products. If you think nutrient dense organ meats, shellfish and bone broth is shortening your lifespan, you really are about as sentient as a vegetable

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/lit/ - Literature