Tao Te Ching

[Anonymous No.14039190]

Is there any value for a westerner to read this? I know you’ll think I’m meme-ing, and if I am an honest man I admit I am, at least a little bit, as we all are, but I am also asking the question with a bit of a seriousness. Is there anything in this that is not said/taught elsewhere in the western tradition?

[Anonymous No.14039200]

There is similarities to things in the west, but it is said in a much much different way with a much different cultural context. You lose a lot if you don't know chinese or at least have a pretty good understanding of Chinese culture. That being said, it's short so you might as well read it, just don't try and interpret too much

[Anonymous No.14039213]

>>14039200
>just don't try and interpret too much
Is that the distillation and fundamental lesson in all of Buddhist thought?

[Anonymous No.14039778]

>>14039190
Just read Tao of Pooh. Breaks down the concepts in a much simpler and more modern way.

[Anonymous No.14040551]

honestly the intro on taoism in the way of zen by alan watts will explain it really well
also tao: the watercourse way by him is good

I love the tao te ching and can say I would have misunderstood a ton of it if I havent read such books first

[Anonymous No.14041062]

Yes

[Anonymous No.14041081]

>>14039778
>modern way
Get out.

[Anonymous No.14041126]

Reading only the tao the Ching without any other voice on that matter may leave you a little bit unanswered.
Zhuangzi and his writings are a lot more substantial in that matter.

[Anonymous No.14041523]

>>14039190
It is entirely different
All of Western thought has the split between matter and spirit, real and ideal, that is essentially Indian in origin, at it's root
Daoism is naturalist, it is about being of and living in the world as it is

[Anonymous No.14041549]

Read it it's quit good and you will find interesting thoughs in there.
If you want to connect it western ideas read this afther.

[Anonymous No.14041576]

How's this

>Want nothing, but let your wants be. In this way, you shall know the way.
>Hence the sage dwells in the deed that consists in taking no action and practices the teaching that uses no words. It accomplishes its tasks without claiming any merit for this. It is because it lays no claim to merit that its merit never deserts it.
>Honor no excellent men and noone will contend; value no rare goods and noone will thieve; display no desirable wealth and noone will be unsettled: hence in its rule, the sage empties their minds but fills their bellies, weakens their purpose but strengthens their bones.
>It constantly keeps the people innocent of knowledge and free from desire, and keeps the clever from daring to act.
>It simply takes no action and everything is in order.
>The way is empty, yet use will never drain it.
>Heaven, Earth, and the Sage are without concern. They treat the living like leaves. Is not the space between them a bellows? It is empty without being exhausted---the more it works, the more comes out!
>Heaven and Earth endure because they do not give themselves life; hence they are able to be long-lived. The sage puts its person last and it comes to the fore, treats it as extraneous and it is preserved. Is it not because likewise it has no thought of self that its needs can be met?
>The highest good is like water, giving life to the myriad living without contention, yet striving to be where none would, the lowest places. Thus it approaches the way. Never contending, it is never at fault.
>Rather than fill to the brim, stop in time. Hammer it to a point, and the sharpness cannot last. To be overbearing whenever one has wealth and position is to bring calamity upon oneself. Retiring when the task is accomplished is the way of Heaven.

https://terebess.hu/english/tao/lau.html
https://terebess.hu/english/tao/wu.html

Yes; read the Lau commentary in his books. Read Zhuangzi by Martin Palmer too.

[Anonymous No.14041613]

>>14041576
I think the Wu translation is simply brilliant.

By the way, OP, just sit and read. It’s not a long book in any sense. It also hands you some nice puzzles and throws in a few punches to the pitfalls of a formalistic society. If you can understand its metaphysical aspects, that’s an added bonus

[Anonymous No.14041636]

>>14039213
Yes, you could discover it's too simple

[Anonymous No.14041659]

>>14039190
Read Zuangzhi instead
>>14039778
Don't listen to that Anon, the Dao of Pooh kinda falls off a cliff. It simultaneously explains too much and not enough.

[Anonymous No.14041663]

>>14040551
And whatever the FUCK you do, DO NOT READ ALAN WATTS. Watts makes all eastern thinking into Cope: the Philosophy.

[Anonymous No.14041667]

>>14041576
Yi Erzi went to see Xu You. Xu You said, "What kind of assistance has Yao been giving you?"
Yi Erzi said, "Yao told me, 'You must learn to practice shitposting and being redpilled and to speak clearly about based and cringe!'"
"Then why have you come to see me?" said Xu You. "Yao has already psy-op'd you with shitposts and redpills and made you a neoliberal with cringe and based. Now how do you expect to go wandering in any faraway, carefree, and as-you-like-it IRCs?"
"That may be," said Yi Ezri. "But I would like, if I may, to only wander in some of the carefree IRCs."
"Impossible!" said Xu You. "Phones without 4G have no way to tell of the majesty of baneposting, computers without CAT cables have no way to tell the immaculate vibrance of Sonic parodies."

[Anonymous No.14041680]

Tao te ching is beautiful.
Tells you to ride along on the natural path. Dont force, dont hold.
Doing by not doing is the way we can acomplish everything we want but by not thinking about what we are doing, just do it. Then it will be done without emptying your energy.
Its like when you work on something but you in the same moment think about result, ambitions and such, you will be tired since you dont flow with the work and just the work.
We have everything we need, we just need to accept the mystery and trust the process. Thinking is often about the future or the past. Being in the moment and trusting your intuition will let everything fall naturally in its parts.

[Anonymous No.14041697]

>>14041667
Great posts require greatness to produce them. Being great, it must take a lot from anon in order to be written. Does this not inconvenience other posts, as well as itself? Therefore, endeavor not only to write so little so that you do not need to post so much, but also to be the poster which does not need to say anything. Who has the easier life: the shitpost, or the good post?

[Anonymous No.14041720]

>>14041663
Not really. He has a crystal clear way of explaining things but the man will talk you into your grave if you let him. His philosophy comes down to life as a big act, but the more you listen to him the more he crushes yours.

[Anonymous No.14041743]

it's good, but the chuang tzu is far more useful. read both

[Anonymous No.14041746]

>>14039778
why would you read a longer, clunkier and shittier version of one of the shortest, most concise and most profound philosophical works of all time

[Anonymous No.14041769]

>>14041549
>christianity
>western

[Anonymous No.14041773]

>>14041769
jesus never existed period

[Anonymous No.14041802]

>>14041697
Master Dongguo asked Zhuangzi, “This thing called based —where does it exist?”
Zhuangzi, said, “There’s no place it doesn’t exist.”
“Come,” said Master Dongguo, “you must be more specific!”
“It is in having a 9 to 5 job.”
“As cringe a thing as that?”
“It is in conformity.”
“But that’s cringier still!”
“It is in Reddit moderators.”
“How can it be so cringe?”
“It is in this post!”

[Anonymous No.14041807]

>>14041769
that isn't actually jesus
its just a typical guy that lived in the same area as jesus during his time

apparently

[JN !!vXXhA/qzhjm No.14041809]

>>14039200
>it is said in a much much different way
This

Reading different books on the same subject helps you understand it better and notice what you got wrong.

>>14041746
This

It's not complicated, you just need experience with a lot of people and situations before you say, "A-ha, I see what he's talking about." I would not have understood it as a young fedoralord.

>>14041549
Thanks

[Anonymous No.14041833]

>>14039200
Oh please dude. It's near more right to say that U.S. preserves Chinese culture better than China.

[Anonymous No.14042004]

>>14041802
Cringe

[Anonymous No.14042091]

>>14041663
Can you explain why not? I have read the wisdom of insecurity and thought it was a good book.

[Anonymous No.14042124]

>>14039190
Of course. There’s a lot of Truth in it. Are “westerners” not interested in the Truth anymore?
Perhaps not. Most “easterners” aren’t either.
It’s amusing to hear from at least one idiot ITT how much Chinese culture you need to know to get something out of the seminal work of Taoism. I’d say you don’t need any understanding of it (meaning modern Chinese culture) whatsoever: something like that would actually be a hindrance.

[Anonymous No.14042133]

>>14042091
At the start of one of his books he apologizes for not explaining a concept well enough when in actuality leaving it vague would serve the point far better. I think that summarizes why his work is garbage the best - it's written for people who read it for self-help. If you have any inclination for these mystical-metaphysical works, you're better off reading the original, and if you're someone who is disconnected from their spiritual side, then Watts does not give you a strong foundation. He is a bird mother who has chewed up the food for ease of digestion.

[Anonymous No.14042198]

>>14041549
>western ideas
>A Jewish sect turned Mystery Cult
Nothing in Christianity is Western

[Anonymous No.14042334]

>>14042198
cope

[Anonymous No.14042339]

>>14039190

[Anonymous No.14042565]

>>14041126
100% this.
Zhuangzi actually made me a better, happier person. Hopefully it will work the same for Anon.

[Anonymous No.14042584]

>>14041667
Top kek. Never change anon.

[Anonymous No.14042590]

>>14042133
I disagree completely. Alan Watts is actually severely underrated and the YouTubed stoner crowd who upload his videos with Hans zimmer music in the background have seriously damaged his reputation, possibly irreparably so, but he is no Jordan Peterson. I was originally a secularist, I am a physicist by trade, and it was Alan Watts works that stemmed me to re-evaluate my stance on mysticism. Not for the self help parts which is due to his natural guru-like inclination, because a great deal of what he says is astonishingly accurate and the way he frames a lot of zen statements with physical parallels is what got me into it. Since then I’ve been on a journey of revisiting the classics, I’ve read the Greeks and the uppanishads and the pilgrims way and a lot of other stuff but Alan Watts explanations still stick with me. He’s a teacher not a thinker but a good teacher makes all the difference. I am a better physicist than my high school physics teacher, but I would not be where I am if his explanations hadn’t stuck with me.

[Anonymous No.14042593]

>>14039190
Read Arthur Waley's translation, The Way and its Power.

[Anonymous No.14042624]

Here's a neat trick:

Translations under the name "Tao Te Ching" are much worse than those called "Dao de Jing."

[Anonymous No.14042645]

>>14041523
i listened to a audiobook of it 2 or 3 times and i feel there is interesting stuff in it.
i like the idea that it is kind of... apolitical like the cynics and stoics were; to find contentment stay away from it, and instead propose a wa to order social life we could call close to anarchism where everybody lives that philosophy and a natural harmony is created. i feel like reading more about all this in general and other topics that could be connected to it, like being in "the zone" or "flow" , tetris and ptsd treatment, doing nothing as a variable in anti-fragility, there probably is some interesting dao-evolutionary psychology connections. oh and there is that cosmic tao thing i wanted to look into that i never got around to it, i feel 100% overstimulated... how ironic.

[Anonymous No.14042650]

Note how much better the Addiss translation is compared to the Ames/Hall translation. Addiss is on the left.

[Anonymous No.14042680]

>>14042590
>I was originally a secularist, I am a physicist by trade, and it was Alan Watts works that stemmed me to re-evaluate my stance on mysticism
I had a very similar experience
I think Watts is great for helping find your way out of overly cynical materialisms, and it doesn't come off as a sermon when he does. Don't just end with him, but he's a good entry point for jaded people

[Anonymous No.14042698]

>>14041807
Well, yes, obviously. That’s just a haplonigger take on what Jesus probably would’ve looked like given the genetic make up of Palestine circa his birth.

[Anonymous No.14042762]

>>14042590
I'm not commenting this off watching xd YouTube videos. I read his book and I went in expecting a slightly simplified take on eastern mysticism. What I got was him explaining entry level concepts to me through metaphors that are aimed at people who have worked office jobs their entire life and who generally read times bestsellers. I actually think that the video game they made is a way better experience of his work than his books are. If it works for you, sure, but I think knowledge and learning has to be traumatic for it to stick properly and Watts can't facilitate that.

[Anonymous No.14042769]

>>14042762
>What I got was him explaining entry level concepts to me through metaphors that are aimed at people who have worked office jobs their entire life and who generally read times bestsellers.

To me, this sounds dismal. I want something impenetrable and alien. I'm not even joking.

[Anonymous No.14042790]

>>14039190
>Is there any value for a westerner to read this?
Absolutely. The Tao Te Ching was for me personally one the most impressive works of literary I have ever read.

This site has explanations and modern interpretations:
>https://www.taoistic.com/taoteching-laotzu/taoteching-01.htm

[Anonymous No.14042792]

Is the Feng translation accurate? I've read it, been I'm not so sure it matches up with the other translations.

[Anonymous No.14042824]

>>14042792
Accurate translation is impossible. Pic related

[Anonymous No.14042835]

>>14042824

A classic

[Anonymous No.14043873]

>>14042650
I was gonna call you a pretentious wanker off my first impression, but you're right. Damn

[Anonymous No.14043908]

>>14042624
The best translations are by Xao Xe Xing or Wow We Wing. Who cares about translations anyway, just read it in Chinese and you are good to go.
>doesn't know chinese
ngmi

[Anonymous No.14044881]

>>14043908
nm$l