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13986332 No.13986332 [Reply] [Original]

Best book that exposes his crimes?? I took 2 from the library and they both seem to be romanticizing him

>> No.13986339

>>13986332
That's because he did nothing wrong, asshole.

>> No.13986365

>>13986332
Look for books by Dmitri Volkogonov.

>>13986339
He was worse than Stalin.

>> No.13987670

IMO his biggest crime was probably taking the power off of the soviets (who his support for had been instrumental in making the bolsheviks as popular as they were) and giving it to the party bureaucracy instead

so probably any book that discusses the provisional government and the immediate aftermath of the october revolution

>> No.13987680

>>13986365
Stalin did nothing wrong.

>> No.13987704

>>13986332
His biggest crime was that he was right. As for works exposing this crime, you could start with:
"Socialism and War" https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1915/s+w/index.htm
"'Left-Wing' Communism" https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1920/lwc/index.htm
"How Lenin Studied Marx" (Krupskaya) https://www.marxists.org/archive/krupskaya/works/howleninstudiedmarx.htm

>> No.13987710

>>13986365
Anything specifically? I'm. Not op but I'd like a noobs view of it all. Doesn't have to be too detailed.

>> No.13987711
File: 109 KB, 599x798, 75432082433.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
13987711

>>13987704
>His biggest crime was that he was right.

>> No.13987723

>>13987704
>marxists.org

lmao

>> No.13987725

>>13987711

>that format
>still supporting capitalism because muh iphones

let me guess, you're a wagecuck because venezuela?

>> No.13987736

>>13987725
wtf I love poverty now

>> No.13987764

>>13986365
>He was worse than Stalin.
Sure. Stalin (or rather that what Stalin represented) has performed the biggest possible service to the bourgeoisie by ruining the communist movement for at least 150 years, so from their view Lenin was indeed much worse.

>>13987711
correct

>>13987723
what's so funny? are you 14 years old?

>> No.13987785

>>13987764
t. never read stalin. Stalin was a Leninist purest and his works and actions are dogmatically correct.

>> No.13987814

>>13987736
go gain an actual understanding of socialist theory and history before you post your shitty facebook boomercore memes on here

>> No.13987818

>>13987814
>let's do the thing that has been tried and failed multiple times
>and not the thing that has been proven to work

>> No.13987841

>>13987818
why exactly do you think those states failed? i'm genuinely curious

>> No.13987842

>>13987814
Not him. What “socialist history” would you recommend? Every single socialist nation has failed catastrophically. Even now Cuba and Vietnam are shithole countries with authoritarian governments. As for reading theory, theory is theory, it’s not going to necessarily apply to the real world.

>> No.13987849

>>13987841
a plethora of reasons that I couldn't possibly list in a single post

>> No.13987873

>>13987842
i find ones critical of socialism from an informed perspective rather than just boomer venezuela memes to be most useful. 'The theory and practice of communism' by RN Hunt is p good for this. Also read up on the 1871 Bakunin-Marx split, then on Lenin's theory of the vanguard party in relation to Marx's transitory proletarian dictatorship, and any history that explains how these ideas were applied in practice by ML governments

>> No.13987892

>>13987785
He's was an utter retard who couldn't even come up with a way to falsify Marxism properly. He indeed was a Leninist, because "Leninist" was the label that has been given by Stalin to his false dogma.

>> No.13987911
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13987911

>>13987849
You couldn't think of a single one that wouldn't get destroyed in 2 seconds.
Also
>Implying socialist states didn't have big cities and completely stocked markets
>muh iphones
>muh 100 zillion deaths

Off yourself, nigger.

>> No.13987920

>>13987911
>>muh 100 zillion deaths
Always funny when commies have to resort to the same linguistic tricks that nazis use, but then insist that you cant compare them to nazis.

>> No.13987924

Hes a materialist, so he falls into all the pitfalls that materialism does.
Also his 'revolution' was just a glorified coup and had very little popular support, and relied more on czarist defectors than the 'proles'

>> No.13987925

>>13987841
I'm not a Marxist-Leninist but what the USSR achieved was prodigious. they went from a mostly pre-industrial society that got fucked by WW1 and the Brest-Livtosk treaty to a nuclear superpower leading the space race in less than 30 years

(which is mostly what the USA did but only by taking several hundred years longer, spreading out the human suffering over that time, and having huge geopolitical advantages)

>> No.13987935

>>13987920
Unironic horshoe theory confirmed. Commies are even more tarded than nazis though imo

>> No.13987940

>>13987920

>thinking capitalism doesnt have a death toll comparable or greater to the USSR

literally all your arguments come down to shit your state ascribed education didn't teach you

>> No.13987945

>>13987940
A nazi could use your fallacies to justify any atrocity as well.

>> No.13987946

>>13986332
He was responsible for overthrowing the monarchy and the church, and murdering the Romanovs. Is that not crime enough?

>> No.13987950

>>13987841
Why do you think it fails time and time again. Genuinely curious

>> No.13987956

>>13987711
>capitalism is good because ugly suburbans, Apple and disgusting cities

>> No.13987957

>>13987873
You gave me a bunch of suggestions for theoretical work. Could you give me just one successful socialist state I can read up on?

>> No.13987972

>>13987945

you're missing the point. i'm not justifying any atrocities because i'm not an ML so i don't care about defending their system. the point is it's hypocritical to attack an ideology for deaths under it when the one you support is guilty of the same thing

>>13987950

again, not an ML, but i would put it down to swapping out worker's control for autocratic state control, opposition by capitalist powers, a whole host of geopolitical reasons, a whole host of historical reasons, and the inherent problems with hierarchical organisation that socialism in its purest form seeks to address.

>> No.13988011

>>13987957

I don't advocate for marxism leninism but if you're interested in that then read into Thomas Sankara from Burkina Faso. He made huge successes such as building a ton of infrastructure, massively boosting literacy rates with education programmes, drastically improving life expectancy with healthcare and vaccination of 2.5 million children, outlawing female genital mutilation and forced marriages, huge agrarian reform to combat desertification etc etc all with zero help from foreign aid and a minimum of violence.

I'd also read into worker co-operatives in general which organise workplaces along socialist lines even in a capitalist marketplace. There are studies that show they're more effective at surviving, providing job satisfaction and are more productive than capitalist structured businesses in many cases.

Anarchism itself is fairly weak, but economically and socially anarchist movements have been pretty successful. Revolutionary catalonia massively boosted its production and prosperity, and the Rojava federations in Syria have been pretty much viewed as a miracle of democracy in a continent most people had given up on (before they get obliterated by turkey in the next 48 hours, that is)

>> No.13988034

>>13987911
>Implying socialist states didn't have big cities
fuck big cities. fuck them in their cunt
https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/subject/hist-mat/hous-qst/ch03b.htm

>>13987924
they had enough support to win and keep political power. nobody cares if it was too little according to your personal standard, and they had more support among the proletariat than any other party (the only party that beat them in the constituent assembly elections was a peasant party).

>>13987957
what do you mean by "socialist" when you write "socialist state"?

>> No.13988064

>>13987972
Perhaps a system that requires total control of its society is inherently flawed and will always invite exploitation and that power to fall into the hands of a few.

Once you've worked a proper job you'll realise socialism and any form of communism are beyond retarded.

>> No.13988099

>>13988064
There's no "system and its society". The whole point is that there remains only human society controlling itself with no more abstractions like "system", "history", "civil society", "state", "capital", "value", etc. controlling them instead.

>> No.13988107

>>13987946
It's time for you to learn that there were two revolutions in 1917.

>> No.13988108

>>13988099
And how does it get there? Oh wait, authoritarian rule. Yeah kinda missing the central underpinning part of how every socialist and communist government is ever and will ever be created.

Absolute brainlet. No point arguing with an idiot.

>> No.13988111

>>13988064

>a system that requires total control of its society

Aaaaand there we go, just as expected. Your issue isn't actually with the core idea of socialism, but with totalitarian interpretations of it. If you want to use totalitarian as a synonym for socialism, do so, but all it does is display your ignorance.

>Once you've worked a proper job

Once I've... experienced the injustice of wage slavery and the dehumanising aspects of alienated labour I'll become... less socialist? All my employment experiences so far have made me more radical, to be honest.

>> No.13988121

>>13988108
Authoritarian rule is only an element of it under one specific subset of socialist thought (which as the Sankara example demonstrates can be pretty effective if done right). As a capitalist would say, reducing all the theory and practice of an ideology this broad to authoritarianism is a 'you problem'

>> No.13988125

>>13986332
"Best book that confirms my biases for me?"

>> No.13988126

>>13988108
>And how does it get there? Oh wait, authoritarian rule.
Yes, it gets there through revolutionary terror directed against the reactionary classes. You're confusing socialism with the transition period between capitalism and socialism.

>> No.13988141

>>13986332
>Best book that exposes his crimes??

Open a history book.

>> No.13988142

>>13987711
The Soviet Union invented cellphones, launched Sputnik, the first satellite, and established MIR, the first international space station.

Iphones are made in inhumane conditions where people jump off the roof. Fruits and vegetables get picked for pennies on the hour by immigrant farm laborers.

>> No.13988278

>>13988142
1.Chinese are the national threat and have no soul less than a malformed fetus.
2.Literally the illegals are literally illegal.

>> No.13989202
File: 63 KB, 413x620, B5E828A2-163E-43C9-9211-53A5F4882B64.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
13989202

>>13987670
>bolsheviks
Funny thing is, they were really the Mensheviks. The real bolsheviks (meaning majority) were called Mensheviks (meaning minority)

>> No.13989242

>>13988278
china is saving the world from the foreign policy (aka terrorism and imperialism) of the USA and EU.

>> No.13989257

Modern Times by Paul Johnson

>> No.13989298

>>13987814
The ‘theory’ is all puppy dogs and ice cream. The outcome is soul crushing worthlessness and poverty.

>> No.13989318

>>13989298
There is ever growing poverty in the US.
Are you going to blame social security, or immigrants, or “moral decay” for all that?
Capitalism is done here. The greed bug flys elsewhere the ruin more lives

>> No.13989323

>>13989298
There is ever growing poverty in the US.
Are you going to blame social security, or immigrants, or “moral decay” for all that?
Capitalism is done here. The greed bug flys elsewhere to ruin more lives

>> No.13989343

>>13987680
This.

>> No.13989419

>>13986365 you mean my boy Joey Steel?

>> No.13989503

>>13986332
>it's a propagandised capitalist cuck burger asks for retarded shit thread

Lenin and Stalin were based as fuck.

>> No.13989527

>>13989202
cringe 2 iq post

>> No.13989531

>>13988064
>Once you've worked a proper job you'll realise socialism and any form of communism are beyond retarded.

>le wagecuck Stockholm syndrome face

Neck yourself, lumpen.

>> No.13989555

>crimes
By 1939, however, male literacy was at 90.8 and female literacy had increased to 72.5%. According to the 1939 Soviet Census, literate people were 89.7% (RSFSR, ages 9–49). During the 1950s, the Soviet Union had become a country of nearly 100% literacy.

>> No.13989571

>>13986339
>>13987680
>>13987704
>>13987725
>>13987785
>>13987814
>>13987911
>>13987925
>>13987940
>>13987956
>>13988034
>>13988111
>>13988121
>>13988126
>>13988142
>>13989531
>>13989555
Based

>>13986365
So still great?

>> No.13989578

>>13986332
The only POSSIBLE criticism of lenin come from other marxists and leftists

>> No.13990203

>>13989578
Are you for real? He rounded up thousands upon thousands of peasants from rural areas and had them all shot for no reason other than to exert his authority and scare the rest into obeying.

>> No.13990260

>>13989298
No, it's not. Every deluded capitalist seems to be under the impression that every leftist writer expected some fantasy utopia land

>> No.13990266

>>13986332
remember to carry around a hammer to hit anyone wearing ussr paraphernalia

>> No.13990277

ussr nicked our uranium and sent dissenters to mines, but i guess its not imperialism when russians do it and the fact that some balkan shithole that has nothing to do with us learned to read completely outweighs that anyway

t. czechistan

>> No.13990284
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13990284

>>13989555
>kill millions
>but it's ok because we improved literacy rates
>>13989531
Nice reddit spacing, go back there fag

>> No.13990301

>>13989531
>lumpen
you don't even know what your own terms mean

>> No.13990427

>>13990203
Source?
>>13990277
Your illiterate peasantry had no business managing uranium.
>>13990284
>kill millions
Source?

>> No.13990524

GOD SAVE THE TSAR

>> No.13990533

>>13987892
t. retard with rhetorical talking points and no argument. You never denied not reading Stalin. Into the trash you go.

>> No.13990537

>>13986332
Leftism seems to be a religion.

>> No.13990577

>>13989578
Just from Marxists. Most of leftards are so devoid of understanding that all their "criticism" amounts to is "muh authoritarianism". This is even true for a lot of self-styled Marxists.

>>13990533
I'm not wasting my time typing out "arguments" to some random tankie retard from 4chan. Everything is laid out clearly in the works of Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin, and in the history of the USSR. Anyone familiar with those and blessed with a functioning brain will figure it out.

>>13990537
Wrong thread, this is about communism, not leftism.

>> No.13990583

>>13990537
Because people can defend against American propaganda with sources? The irony of your statement is that anti-communism is more like a religion. People don't know what the fuck they're talking about, repeat shit they have no proof of, and Americans love it because they're simple-minded. Also most people who attempt to criticise it don't even read anything about it yet spew bullshit.

>> No.13990744

>>13990577
Based

>> No.13990924

>>13986332
Leftist is literally a political manifestation of criminal impulses. Bring a Leftist is a crime in and of itself.

Subconsciously they know this, which is why they murder their own children, or do not breed.

>> No.13990999

>>13989555
kek, of course it increased, millions of illiterates were being killed off

>> No.13991339

>>13986332
I haven't read it but Nabokov, after reading To the Finland Station (which romanticizes Lenin), wrote a letter to Edmund Wilson urging him to read Mark Aldanov's book on Lenin to get a truer portrait of the terrible man.

>> No.13991650

>>13986332
Arthurm Herman's 1917

>> No.13991698
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13991698

>>13986332
Why bother? You will never convince a so called communist about anything negative regarding communism regardless of how factual it might be. They have no capacity for critical thinking and are intellectually bankrupt cultists and ideologues.

>> No.13991700

>>13986332
>Best book that exposes his crimes
He w as a saint compared to currebnt leadrs

>> No.13991705

so many trannys in one thread

>> No.13991738

>>13991698
Why bother? You will never convince a so called capitalist about anything negative regarding communism regardless of how factual it might be. They have no capacity for critical thinking and are intellectually bankrupt cultists and ideologues.

>> No.13991761
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13991761

Absolutely, read Rosa Luxemburg

>> No.13991776

NOOO YOU CANT JUST KILL KULAKS!! WHO CARES IF THERE IS A FAMINE?? BURNING YOUR CROPS AND SALTING THE EARTH IS A HUMAN RIGHT!

>> No.13991798
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13991798

>>13986332
The Left can only thrive when speech and thought are censored.
That is why they hate the protection of our intrinsic right to freedom of speech (and by extension, thought) enshrined in the first amendment.

>> No.13991805

>>13991738
Your post makes no fooking sense.

>> No.13991807
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13991807

>>13986339

>> No.13991815
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13991815

>>13991798
How is your homosexual pedophile grooming and terrorist recruitment forum going?

>> No.13991825

The second (and perhaps the best) chapter of WTV's "Europe Central" is "The Saviors," which is about anti-Leninist Communist Revolutionaries around the time Lenin took power, plus some scenes of Lenin and his wife. It's the most powerful fictional account of Lenin's crimes that I have read, but it isn't big-picture politics, it's about a few individuals who stand in for all the fellow-Communists who were persecuted.

>> No.13991854
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13991854

Hmmm... Makes you think.

>> No.13991873

>>13991854
If the Soviet Union was so bad then why are so many Eastern Europeans still so nostalgic for it?

>> No.13991886

>>13988142
An American engineer named Martin Cooper invented the cellphone. So you're wrong.

But even then, so what? Literally all the best shit and innovations come from capitalism. I don't see how anyone can deny this fact. Even if the Soviets invented stuff, capitalism made it better and accessible to everyone.

>> No.13991895
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13991895

>Literally all the best shit and innovations come from capitalism. I don't see how anyone can deny this fact. Even if the Soviets invented stuff, capitalism made it better and accessible to everyone

>> No.13991903

>>13991815
My goodness, your insightful and intelligent rebuttal of my position, based as it is on unasrailable logic, has caused me to convert to Communism!
Dumbass...
kek
Here, maybe a cartoon will help you understand how you just made an ass of yrself...
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ahM2CXZx80o

>> No.13991913

>>13988111

>Muh it wasn't real socialism

Clearly it was demonstrated that is pure utopian fiction and not apliccable in real life due to human nature. You might as well go preach the Kingdom of Christ it's just as much plausible as socialism

>> No.13991929
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13991929

>>13991903
Your position consists of grooming underage boys for gay sex and beating your wife.

>> No.13991964

>>13991929
sounds very Greek to me

>> No.13991970
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13991970

>>13991964
It’s European actually.

>> No.13991982
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13991982

>>13991970
it's pretty popular everywhere tbqh

>> No.13992119

>>13991798
Because most people are fascist capitalists online. Who knew?

>> No.13992140

>>13992119
Well, they're not capitalists. They're just cucked and indoctrinated.

>> No.13992157

>>13990924
What the fuck are you talking about

>> No.13992194

>>13991738
>parrots the opposing post to prove he isn't intellectually bankrupt
lmao can't make this shit up

>> No.13992229

>>13991970
>european
>therefore good
man these nazis are so fucking low IQ

>> No.13992230

>>13986332
He was a pretty great guy. Achieved far more than the pathetic NEETs on this message board.

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