/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13966604]

I'm only vaguely familiar with Trotsky. Can someone explain to me the connection between Trotskyists and neoconservatives? It's always confused me.

[Anonymous No.13966609]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UsBLKhjfO7g

[Anonymous No.13966618]

>>13966609
Haha, very nice.

[Anonymous No.13966623]

By connection you mean besides the fact that they're all jewish?

[Anonymous No.13966626]

>>13966623
Yes, besides that fact.

[emonationalist !!HxQhKkNYVzK No.13966654]

Some of the neoconservatives were ex-Trotskyists. That's all.

[emonationalist !!HxQhKkNYVzK No.13966658]

>>13966609
<3

[Anonymous No.13966668]

>>13966626
I've never heard about any real ideological connection, as the two are obviously dissimilar, but just that Kristol et al. "matured." It is a fairly clear example of an ethnic co-option in attempt to control the direction of conservatism and transform it into something safe for jews, and away from anything that might be beneficial toward whites and white identity. I'm sure they they borrowed a lot of esoteric and exoteric inspiration from Strauss, who was a jew who did something similar.

[Anonymous No.13966872]

Not an expert but I read Justin Vaisse's book on neoconservatism a few years back. Early on he mentions that many Jews in America were forced to study in a particular university in New York due to limits on the number of Jewish students at other institutions (i.e. the Ivies). There was a strong communist culture at said university with a split along Stalinist/Trotskyist lines. A bunch of the OG neocons studied there and for whatever reason gravitated toward Trotskyism (presumably it was perceived as the more intellectual of the two) but later shed these views.

[Anonymous No.13966915]

>>13966604
Socialist here who knows lots of Trots, basically what happened is
>Trotsky disagrees with Stalin and Stalin tells him to fuck off from the USSR
>Trotsky starts his own party with hookers and blackjack (this much I assume you already know)
>Remember for later that Trotsky has this idea of 'permanent revolution' where Communist countries should just wage permanent war against non-communist neighbours until the Final Battle To Establish Communism Everywhere is won
>Great Depression
>Some people join communists because of depression issues, some join communists because it's cool and some because it's the hip cool thing to do
>30s happens, Spanish Civil War, Third Period Comintern ("everyone but us is a social-fascist, we won't ally with centre-left against actual fascists, we're the only good party" -- leads to Nazis winning) etc.
>Trotskyist/Stalinist falling out intensifies to the point where Trots and Tankies are murdering eachother in Europe, Stalinists are calling Trots "Trotsky-Fascists"
>A lot of Trots stay committed pro-Socialist but committed anti-Stalinist
>Anti-Stalinism becomes anti-Communism, anti-USSR, anti-PRC, anti-Comintern/Comecon/Cominform
>Cold War starts. Trots are accepted as okay by govt, even by some deep-state organisations, because Feds know that Trots hate Stalin more than capitalism now
> Earlier Trots start writing and agitating, getting paid that CIA dollar to say shit against the USSR. This is a good racket.
>Lots of them just drift away from activism, lead comfortable lives in politics, realise they agree with conservatives that USSR is bad
>American New Left comes along and fucks up royally, keeps fucking up, fails to achieve anything, alienates old leftists, alienates young leftists, alienates itself from itself, splits to death, peters out
>Keep anti-Communist attitudes
>Some get involved with foreign policy apparatus
>When making decisions, default to learned position applied to new questions -- "We need to invade everyone until the Final Battle to Establish Liberal Democracy Everywhere is won!"
>Invade Vietnam, Panama, Grenada
>Fund guerillas in Nicaragua and other LatAm states
>Invade Afghanistan, Iraq "to spread democracy and freedom! Think about the womens' rights!"

There's still a kind of spectrum here, running say Orwell -> Koestler -> Shachtman -> Burnham -> Hitchens -> all the way out to Kristol. Also this is a shitty greentext explanation and I am sure I am about to get called a fascist by the Tankies and a Tankie by the Trots and an islamig gommunidst faggot by the fascists.

[Anonymous No.13966958]

>>13966915
I thought it was informative but im retarded

[Anonymous No.13967019]

>>13966872
>>13966915
Umm, no. These are absolutely retarded explanations. Don't over-complicate the reality here.

Jews are simply using ideology to further their tribal interests and subvert the interests of the host people, whites, whom they view as their tribal enemy. It is about nothing more than that with jews, ever. Whites project our interest in abstract political ideology onto others, when non-white racial groups simply don't think in those terms. This is especially the case with a tribal people like jews, who will switch sides and pretend to adopt any ideology in order to reformat it and make it into something that furthers jewish interests. Neoconservativism is a prime example of this, since for the last 30+ years we've seen the conservative party do nothing for whites while promoting free market policies that expand jewish global capitalism and endless wars for Israel.

Abstract ideology is merely a tool white people have used historically to construct fair societies and functional institutions; it is also a tool jews have used to subvert our societies and institutions. Everything boils down to nature and group struggle over resources and mates, but white people are still stuck in this lapsed evolutionary mode where it's about us battling between each other over who has the best ideas regarding how to structure society. Meanwhile these jews are carving us up, because as an alien group that has to obtain power and resources through internal subversion, they understand on a more primordial level that it's about them first, and that deology is only a tool to help them win.

[Anonymous No.13967038]

>>13967019
cringe

[Anonymous No.13967047]

>>13967038
Very creative.

[Anonymous No.13967051]

>>13966604
>Why yes I am a trot
>Why yes I am a western white too stupid or too afraid to challenge my deeper held beliefs on socialism and the world around me but is instead comfortable to hold a weak notion of anti-capitalism devoid of any larger understanding of national and international struggle while postulating as if I do
>Why yes I believe stalin was a pranoid power hungry monster who betrayed the revolution and that I am the true leninist eventhough trotsky's ideas were themselves guided by his narcissism
>Why no I don't realize trotsky offers simple surface level analysis of stalin's rule of the soviet union and that lenin hated trotsky calling him a worm and a dispecable careerist even though trotsky always maintains that he was the one true leninist
>Why no I don't realize that stalin was actually not anti-semitic nor was he a racist paranoid monster and that anti-stalinist propaganda only exists because of the nature of stalin's successful rule as being a threat to existing capitalist order and that the trot only exacerbated these false accusations by giving into the capitalists because the trot is a power hungry political prostitute who even refused to learn yiddish growing up because the trot saw it as beneath him and then readily mingled and socialized with western circles after selling out the soviet union and then wondered why the soviet jews hated him
>Why yes I do believe stalin did not understand the dialectic and will continue calling him out for being a brute anti-intellectual unline trotsky, and thus continuing the obviously wrong and hypocritical notion of trotsky having sound political ideas as opposed to stalin because I am a fucking idiot that is oblivious to the fact that stalin did understand the dialectic and the whole of marxism and was in fact not anti-intellectual and that he was also a very clear and concise writer who wrote for the working class and that this notion is only possible because he was a georgian working class man unlike the incredibly wealthy and privileged and much stupider and more incompetent trotsky
>Why yes I realize the trot to neocon piepline is real and that even after my transition I will continue being a hypocritical idiot about the larger international struggle as I was when I was a trot
>Why yes I realize him and his work have been possibly the most damaging thing to socialism, not just under the soviet union, but also to any vaguely anti-capitalist struggle in non-western countries, but also in western countries as it grasps more privileged and less smart white kids into a shitty belief system called "trotskyism" and that one of the genuinely most harmful mistakes to the advancement of post-capitalism was that Ramon Mercader did not kill the trot earlier
>Why yes I am white, and why yes I do have an IQ of 120 and unironically believe I am genius, why do you ask?

Few ideologies are more indicative of a pseud than trotskyism

[Anonymous No.13967062]

>>13966604
Judaism

[Anonymous No.13967097]

>>13966604

Both globalist zionists

[Anonymous No.13967143]

>>13967019
>>13967047
>>13967062
>>13967097
Fuck off /pol/, go away, stop ruining what could have been a good thread

[Anonymous No.13967169]

>>13967143
No, you fuck off jewsperg.

[Anonymous No.13967178]

>>13967169

[Anonymous No.13967188]

>>13967178
Hasn't been a notsee in 70+ years, amigo. Move on.

[Anonymous No.13967705]

>>13966915
3 lines in and I can already assume you're from leftypol

[Anonymous No.13967712]

>>13967705
At least the migrants from leftypol attempt to provide actual explanations. With the idiots from pol all we get are "da joos".

[Anonymous No.13967726]

>>13966915
I'm currently reading on this for my PhD and this is somewhat a good explanation but in the 30s, Comintern tankies had this 'popular front' scheme where they absolutely allied with centre left and mostly New Deal liberals (not with the SPA, even less with trots). Then after WW2, when the SPA is nothing more than 20 idiots arguing about what socialism should be, Shachmanfags takes over, they get all bourgeois and comfortable and then basically what you said happened

There's really something strange with trots becoming class traitors though. In France, for example, all the big name young trotskyists of 1968 became neoliberal fags in the 1990's and 2000's. Weird

[Anonymous No.13967733]

>>13967712
Awareness of the JQ is widespread now, has nothing to do with pol. Maybe you're just an idiot.

[Anonymous No.13967736]

>>13967712
yeah the rundown on trot history seems to be ok. you're just cringe

[Anonymous No.13967753]

>>13967726
>There's really something strange with trots becoming class traitors though.
Class never had anything to do with it.

>In France, for example, all the big name young trotskyists of 1968 became neoliberal fags in the 1990's and 2000's. Weird
Is it? Perhaps those neoliberal leaders were primarily jews like American neoconservative leaders, in which case it's not weird at all.

[Anonymous No.13967754]

>>13967726
in sweden the hardcore 80s neoliberals were often 60s/70s maoists
following the current

[Anonymous No.13967760]

As a dogmatic internationalist, Trotsky has a lot of common with neoliberalism.

[Anonymous No.13967769]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Dewey
John Dewey who was arguably the greatest influence on the current american school system, and if we know George Bush's claim to fame being his education policy ( and then yknow 9/11 and convenient war making) the biggest note that should be made is that John Dewey was an avowed trotskyist who was associated with groups that tried to help hide and keep trotsky safe during his stay in north america and mexico

[Anonymous No.13967781]

>>13967760
>As a dogmatic internationalist

cringe

[Anonymous No.13967793]

>>13967781
That's not... what I meant /pol/

[Anonymous No.13967794]

>>13967781
All jews, as a race of internationalist vagabonds, fit such a description.

[Anonymous No.13967796]

>>13966604
You just got to look at who were attracted to Trotskyism in the 1930s in America and how by the Reagan administration they're all working in the state department as big supporters of the freedom fighters in Afghanistan and South America. Also it wasn't JUST Jews in the pipeline, you can find some gentiles:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bayard_Rustin
But ya the big issue everything centred around most specifically was Israeli foreign policy. I don't know world wide but the Democratic party in America and Labour in the UK for example was extremely pro-Israel initially but by the time of the six day war criticism on the fringe already started growing and this is when the drift rightward starts.

>>13967760
Trotsky never had anything in common with "neoliberalism". Neoliberalism is an economic program... you'll find all the ex-Trotskyists weren't "neoliberals" since they promoted unionisation on an American model worldwide and were generally to the "left" relative to other elements in government. Neoconservatism was always primarily about foreign policy. Neocons just want bigger public spending on defence programs, the method doesn't so much matter.

>>13967769
Dewey was never a Marxist, he supported Trotsky because he opposed Stalinist methods of repression... he was a progressive and the American education system isn't progressive since it doesn't teach kids shit all about real life.

[Anonymous No.13967832]

>>13966915
> I am about to get called a fascist by the Tankies
Nah, you're all right

[Anonymous No.13967882]

>>13966604
James Burnham, a glow-in-the-dark Trotskyist, co-founded National Review with Buckley. Buckley went on to subvert and redirect conservatism away from any useful direction. Rand had some Trotskyist roots too if I recall. Pretty much >>13966915 + jewish ethnic interest.

[Anonymous No.13967989]

>>13967726
The Comintern had the Third Period line where Social Democracy was Social Fascism, then suddenly did a complete 180 with the Popular Front. The USSR had the tendency to bounce between extremes.

[Anonymous No.13968212]

>>13967753
Nah man you're just delusional

>>13967989
Something to do with the USSR Axis negotiations going sour probably. Western tankies were almost as dumb then than they are now

[Anonymous No.13968296]

>>13967019
IQ 300