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13966230 No.13966230 [Reply] [Original]

>refutes liberalism, socialism, communism and fascism

Hehe nothing personal mon cheri

>> No.13966234

>>13966230
You can't refute fascism. It's against the law because I say so

>> No.13966254

>>13966234
Shutup schmitt

>> No.13966260

>>13966230
>refutes fascim before it even existed
How? Hacks?

>> No.13966269
File: 82 KB, 798x611, C5258FB8-3C5E-498E-AA52-9EC1EB68EF49.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
13966269

>>13966230
Fools errand. Monarchism was actually refuted forevermore

>> No.13966285
File: 500 KB, 1200x813, 10._art341061.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
13966285

>>13966269
Monarchy will never be refuted. 14 centuries of History where monarchist Europe ruled the world can't be wiped out from History.

>> No.13966293

>>13966285
this. the only good thing that came after monarchy was the literature, and most of it was incel shit about hating the world now.

>> No.13966315

>>13966285
ghastly painting

>> No.13966323
File: 400 KB, 1302x2083, 0B29B0BD-9062-4FBE-B52F-1506B1A3C308.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
13966323

>>13966285
The mistakes of divine right have been refuted. Nobody said anything about being able to wipe them from history. Simple artisan Paine laid it all out quite plainly, if you were to only look.

Truths also to be found in the pages of Finley

>> No.13966325

>>13966323
whats your pic related about?

>> No.13966361

>>13966325
Sort of archeological sociology. He pieces together the world of Homer and the world he was trying depict. Very interesting to me as it is, but more so that he shows the roots or royalty. Though I still like the fictional character Odysseus, He is a pirate and bully, but of course a king of Ithaca.

>> No.13966365

>>13966361
thanks, will check it out

>> No.13966367
File: 616 KB, 499x374, giphy.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
13966367

>>13966323
The absence of divine right has been refuted by its own praxis. Europe is falling apart and will be filled up with blacks and Moors. Modernity has failed by itself.

>> No.13966368
File: 261 KB, 1200x750, DAfIyl5XoAAmTC3.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
13966368

>>13966230
b&rp

>> No.13966372

>>13966365
Yw. Enjoy.

>>13966367
Of course you don’t know how demographics works. Should have known

>> No.13966381

>>13966367
The life of the average European today is far better than what it was under monarchist Europe, otherwise our ancestors wouldn't have revolted in the first place.

>> No.13966436
File: 958 KB, 720x540, UsagiAmi.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
13966436

>/lit/ is starting to post De Maistre again

Feels like 2015, it's a good feeling. A new generation will learn that democracy is a sham and revolutions always eat their own.

>> No.13966484
File: 1.78 MB, 540x304, 1544915141801.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
13966484

>t-the french revolution w-was an act of providence to punish p-people who betrayed the king!
>r-republicanism will end any day now!

>> No.13966488

>>13966315
the colors are all fucked up in that jpg

>> No.13966743
File: 156 KB, 640x916, juan-donoso-cortes-802191.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
13966743

based, based, based

>> No.13966758
File: 32 KB, 650x361, la strada zampano.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
13966758

>>13966269
Holy fuck are you for real. Ridiculous.

>> No.13966775
File: 192 KB, 600x507, B1BC76C2-46A2-4014-868F-DA40885AE65A.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
13966775

>>13966758
>Holy fuck. You read books?
Quite a bit, yes.

>> No.13967014

>>13966260
He asked Parmenides how he and Guenon retroactively refuted whitehead.

>> No.13967873

>self-proclaimed commie cites bourgeoisie liberal's attack on their shared foe

You reveal your hand too easily...

>> No.13967943

>>13966230
How so?

>> No.13967955

Even liberals back then thought de maistre was GOAT

>> No.13967979
File: 880 KB, 1390x1975, Louis_XIV_of_France.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
13967979

>VVhy, yes, mye fellovve man, I uerily do belieuee that Monarchie and the Constitvtional Righte of Kings shall henceforthe remedee all thate vvhiche vvhomst'd've bvried our Great Nation's traditiones vvithout proper rites and successiue processe.

>> No.13968013
File: 160 KB, 1280x800, 2B30354E-D805-44B9-BC36-8A9AF3061493.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
13968013

Get some historical perspective

>> No.13968016
File: 72 KB, 1024x510, 1527000795310.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
13968016

>>13966367
Butterfly is right on this, which doesn't say much for our NuRight larpers.
Divine Right is hubris and completes the descent into Christian degeneracy. It's carte blanche for moral faggotry and is one of the major causes of liberalism. Governmental types are not a good thing in themselves and once they betray their own foundations they are perhaps worse than even their opposed types. It's no mistake that ancaps, fascists, and other NuRight retards tend to have sentiment for the absolute worst form of monarchism.
Liberalism is really just a degenerate form of monarchism in which its power and sense of divine right is extended to all people.

>> No.13968238

>>13968016
Interesting theory, but I think liberalism has far more to do with the increasing wealth of a civilization and the subsequent opportunity for indulgence. We all have the potential to engage in self-aggrandizement and degenerate excess without proper guidance; it's inherent to our nature, we don't need the notion of extended 'divine right' to explain such behaviour.

What system do you suggest would be more efficacious in retarding liberalism than fascism, monarchism, or traditionalist religion?

>> No.13968293

>>13968238
>I think liberalism has far more to do with the increasing wealth of a civilization
Liberals, expert salesmen, have sold you shoddy merchandise. It may extend a sort of divine right to everyone, but hardly everyone attain it. They’ll always be a minority and always require vast amounts of poverty and homelessness
>We all have the potential to engage in self-aggrandizement and degenerate excess without proper guidance; it's inherent to our nature
Our “nature” is highly malleable. We’ve just grown decrepit in this long-standing traditional system

You know what system I’d suggest.

>> No.13968370

>>13968016
>Divine Right is hubris and completes the descent into Christian degeneracy.
Divine right has existed in so many cultures. Or similar. I bet you prefer the head of state turning into a god like the Roman Empire

>> No.13968384

>>13968370
Religious degeneracy*

State-religious degeneracy**

Better?

>> No.13968440

>>13966743
That's just plain incorrect

>> No.13968472

If an almighty god supports absolute monarchy, why were the monarchs overthrown?

>> No.13968495

>>13966230
Real fascism has never been tried.

>> No.13968617

>>13968440
>incorrect
>doesn't say why
ahhhh I love this kind of people

>> No.13969142

>>13968472
The preferred system of government is a limited monarchy with a strong aristocracy to check it, along with considerable influence from the Church. This was the status quo for most of the Middle Ages and it worked out pretty well.

>> No.13969250

The real question for modernity is how to retrieve authentic aristocracy, and hierarchy, and organic community without surrendering the underlying spiritual "meaning" of democracy, socialism, and individualism. The cross is the best symbol for this, combining with the vertical with the horizontal. The point is to retain both dimensions, not sacrifice one to the other. The vertical should not be flattened out into a pure horizontal plane like it has under modern democracy, and the horizontal dimension of human life should not be narrowed into a linear totem pole like it has been for most of human history, with the "capite censi" or "popular estate" occupying a single rank at the bottom, even though it's 97% of the population.

Anyone who longs for a straightforward return to ancien regime feudalism or god forbid some romantic vision of a caste system is a moron. None of the thinkers who yearned for the organic communism or natural aristocratic qualities of the Greek polis were under any illusions about the totalitarian aspects of that organicism, or the fact that it was built on the backs of slaves, dalits, Helots, etc.

The modern rule of money, what the average man calls "liberal democracy," can't be escaped by fleeing back into feudalism. The modern oligarch, controlling the modern herd with the indirect and invisible yoke of usury, will happily support simplistic reactionary philosophies because their naive nostalgia for paternal overlords can easily be used as a vehicle for cementing the domination of the financial oligarchy. Where is that new-but-old aristocracy going to come from when it's time to restore feudalism and the divine right of kings? The only two classes left are merchants (slave-owners) and indebted wage-workers (slaves). The aristocrats won't come from the latter class, so they'll come from the former, which means they will be well-polished sons of merchants, with fancy bourgeois educations to help them trick you into thinking they're aristocrats, but no natural sense of noblesse oblige.

You can't escape this hell on nostalgia alone and you can't turn back history. But if you try to sublate all the best aspects of the incomplete systems that have already been tried, like the organicism of the Greek polis, the radical individualism of modern democracy, and the genuine nobility of some aristocratic traditions, you can create something new that overcomes all of their weaknesses (totalitarianism, atomism, petty feudal oligarchy). Conversely the moneyed elites are trying to do the same thing from the other angle: what they want is a petty feudal oligarchy, governed by them, whose atomism is totalitarian. They want all the "obverse," negative sides of these historical moments to be synthesised into one final hell. We should be doing the opposite and trying to sublate all the positives to cancel those negatives.

>> No.13969975
File: 91 KB, 801x599, Charles-vii-courronement-_Panthéon_III.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
13969975

>>13969250
As you say, the secret is the Cross. Noblesse oblige was born from Christianity; it was the "baptism" of the old Roman aristocrats and generals, infusing them with a sense of charity, a spirit of piety, and a meekness of spirit. Of course the average duke or knight could definitely be a bastard, but if the nasty ones were held in check at all, they were held in check by a Christian sensibility, one which, if they did not subscribe to it personally, they felt its shadow over them and reacted to it nonetheless.

This, of course, is why De Maistre is such a staunch Catholic. He knows how powerful Christianity is in creating the aristocracy he longs for. As in so many things, the key to it all is the Church. If the Church acts properly, it can generate an ideal society--not because it rules directly, as in a theocracy, but because through it, and through its Sacraments, the power of God flows out into men.

>> No.13970033

>>13966323
>The mistakes of divine right have been refuted.

The "Divine Right" was already rejected by catholic monarchist in the 16th century. It was never the main justification or legitimization of the goverment during the period of monarchies. It was mostly used by protestant goverments.

>> No.13970753

>>13969250
good post

>>13969975
the cross existed long before christianity. but you're right that a ratiocinative response isn't sufficient, as little as a reactionary response is cogent.

>> No.13970818

>>13968293
I don't believe I was talking to you, butterfag. Although we agree on many foundational areas of knowledge (much to my chagrin), I consider you to be a liberal in most of your conclusions.

Nor am I an absolutist; capitalism and liberalism do convey some important advantages. It is the dose that makes the poison.

>> No.13970910

>>13969250
Well said. The devil is of course in the details, however. How might those positive aspects interact and tear at eachother? Might one of those negatives be necessary to preserve a blance of more positives? How do we prevent the complacent apathy that infects a population when times are good?

It's a good guiding ideal, but the steps we take towards it may have to be brutally pragmatic.

>> No.13971326
File: 292 KB, 1024x681, 2356312548_6551238bd5_b.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
13971326

>>13970910
As I've delved more into right-wing, reactionary thought, one of the most persuasive things I've come across, and a thing I've come to believe myself, is that aristocracy of some kind seems to be inevitable. No matter what we try, no matter how many revolutions we wage or social programs we attempt, we always seem to come back to a small amount of people wielding most of society's power and wealth. If they're not an official aristocracy, then they function as one regardless. In fact, de facto aristocracies seem to be worse than de jure aristocracies; at least the aristocracies with actual law and custom behind them have an officially recognized function in society, and have to abide by certain rules and norms. Unofficial aristocracies get to have all the perks of an aristocracy without any of the responsibilities that come with it.

So one of the strongest lessons we might take from the reactionaries is that you need to establish a legal aristocracy and maintain it--or else you'll wind up with an illegal aristocracy that cares for nothing but itself.

>> No.13971436

>>13971326
Wholeheartedly agree.

>> No.13971437

>>13966381
>revolution is good because it happened
retard
the masses prove their need for a divine ruler simply by being you and typing idiocracy

>> No.13971440

>>13966230
huh that looks like the face of the guy i bullied when i was 9 years old

>> No.13971447

>>13971326
That was the entire reason I started reading right wing stuff in the first place, it occurred to me at some point that power always begets power and you just have a little group of people at the top. It's always like that.

>> No.13971449

>>13968495
It has and it worked. Socialism also worked very well with Stalin. You're just a brainlet.

>> No.13971739

>>13971326
>pic related
perfect

>> No.13972262

>>13970033
>The king is not divine.
>The Pope is!
Who the fuck cares what the Catholics believe

>> No.13972594
File: 1.77 MB, 1947x3050, François_Gérard_-_Napoleon_I_001.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
13972594

>>13971739
Exactly. He could have posted a picture of Stalin and it would have had the same effect. But Napoleon has the best line of them all:

"I found the crown of France lying in the gutter. I picked it up, with my own sword, and put it on my head."

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