Buddhist texts without mentioning of ahimsa/ethics

[Anonymous No.13898864]

Could anyone recommend me some authentic Buddhist religious texts where one can get the full metaphysical and epistemological Buddhist doctrines but where there is no mention of any ahimsa doctrine etc? As ancient as possible. I haven't read any of the Mahayana Sutras such as Diamond, Platform or Lotus Sutras, do any of them fit the mold? Questions of Milinda? Any specific part of the Pali canon? Want them to be actually viewed as religious and spiritual texts by the Buddhist communities so not just some compartmentalized dry commentary. Texts viewed to contain the fullness of Buddhism with the exceptions of the precepts, especially the ahimsa precept.

Well technically there can be mention of ethics but I would like to avoid the ones where morality has reified into precepts.

Looking to complete the system of Aryan Idealism and throw ahimsa on the trash heap of history.
>inb4 this is cringe
no bully

[Anonymous No.13898895]

>>13898864
You're a retard and this is cringe. Religions are not sandboxes.

[Anonymous No.13898902]

>>13898895
They are now

[Anonymous No.13898906]

>>13898902
No, fuck off zoomer and stop constructing your identity based on internet fads.

[Anonymous No.13898910]

>>13898906
Judging by the amount of responses in this thread. There is no such fad.

Until now.

[Anonymous No.13898931]

>>13898910
Judging by only 2 posters in this thread and you trying to push your thread to the front page by replying with any inane thought of yours, you're retarded. I am sageing all my posts, you can stop trying.

[Anonymous No.13898948]

>>13898931
>stop responding to my posts in your thread

[Anonymous No.13898959]

>>13898864
>Can anyone recommend me some authentic Buddhist texts expect without one of the most fundamental teachings so I can LARP on the internet
Stop co-opting existing traditions with your own brand of autism just because you like their aesthetics. If you want to LARP like a retard, do it on your on terms.

[Anonymous No.13898968]

>>13898959
>all these people defending the purity of Buddhism
I hope she sees this bro

I like their metaphysics and epistemology. You gonna post advice or just white knight a literal religion?

[Anonymous No.13898993]

>>13898968
buddhism doesnt reify moralistic abstractions, they're recognized explicitly as tools

[Anonymous No.13899023]

>>13898993
Recommend some writings where one of those tools was left back at home on the workbench, please.

[Anonymous No.13899053]

I think you will find that the basic 5 precepts are simply a logical extension of Buddhist thought. So far as texts go, you could try this:

http://www.nippapanca.org/uploads/2/4/5/9/24591864/av_path_press_edition.pdf

[Anonymous No.13899104]

>>13899053
Thanks for the recommendation. I think i've actually tried to find that text before but could only find one with a really annoying font. I'll definitely give it a read.

Yes from what I've read it seems true what you say but I also find most Buddhist to put way too much emphasis on ahimsa which to me does not follow from the axioms. But if wrongful cognition(or however you want say it) is the problem then I don't see why a trained mind wouldn't be able to go "beyond good and evil" in terms of morality/ethics and technically kill/hurt without accruing bad karma. A sustenance hunter having fully grasped the nature of phenomena; from what I gather, should be able to hunt without greed, hatred and delusion. And therefore without bad birth.

[Anonymous No.13899347]

>>13899104
It seems to me that ahimsa is stressed because any sort of violence is likely to dirturb the mind/make bad karma (which can be thought as a sort of mental inertia or habit). Also, there is the old saying that an illuminated mind is like an arrow flying straight to hell. Someone who gets "beyond good and evil" can be damaging to society as a whole if they are not grounded in Compassion for their fellow sentient beings.

I beleive that, in theory, any activity can be a-karmic, without karma, even hunting. Karma is actually a mental state, or so I have been given to understand, a sort of momentum of the mind. Violence tends to set it going in the direction of more violence.

I know the text you mean, the font is really annoying!

[Anonymous No.13899434]

>>13898864
>Looking to complete the system of Aryan Idealism
you won't find that in Buddhism

[Anonymous No.13899552]

The problem is that Buddhism is, as you said, a complete system. All the parts are interlocking. You cant discuss meditation and sunyata without the implications of those concepts, which are, in part, ethical.

Plenty of Mahayana sutras - the Heart Sutra and the Mahayana Mahaparinirvana Sutra are the first to come to mind - either dont directly deal with ethics or don't stress non violence (the MPNS expliclty encourages pro-Dharma militaries), but to pretend that you can look at these in isolation from their broader context and their necessary implications is to not just fail at appreciating Buddhism, it shows a remarkable shallowness in your approach to the very subject of philosophy.

I hope the true meaning of the Lord Buddha reaches you before your next life, and that if you accept the necessity of violence it is done so in the context of authentic Dharma and with limitless compassion.

[Anonymous No.13899571]

Hey guys, I know I am only a 20 year old cumbrain zoomer with a midwit IQ, but I decided to study philosophy anyways. As such, naturally I must construct my own philosophical system. I have read online that Buddhism is cool (my favorite Buddhist is Evola) and it has these great images of stoic superhumans who BTFO degenerate Westerners, but I really have a problem with ethical responsibility and such, including actual respect for the Ancients, as you remember I am only 20, and thus would like to just pick and choose the parts of it that I like in order to LARP and pretend to myself that I am an intellectual. Hey, maybe I can attempt to impress a few of my autistic friends too.

So, please help me disregard 2500 years of extremely well thought out and elaborate tradition so that I can feel better about my shitty life where I distract myself from my mediocrity by jerking it to BDSM porn!

Thanks, your cumbrain OP.

[Anonymous No.13899678]

>>13898864
If you want to LARP that's fine, but you're going to have to come to terms with the fact that you're ignoring it. Don't expect the texts to play along with you.

[Anonymous No.13899756]

The worst thing about cripchan moving off the clear web is that all of the retards from /christ/ were too dumb to setup tor and now flock back here.

[Anonymous No.13899895]

>>13898864
mahayana sutras are the best for shunyata teachings so check out the prajnaparamita sutras
however, ahimsa and universal compassion are impossible to leave out of Buddhism. In Buddhism, its wisdom teachings and compassion teachings are two sides of the same coin. They say you cannot have compassion without wisdom or wisdom without compassion. The morality is essential. The Bodhisattva, inextricably tied to Mahayana and the prajnaparamita, embodies boundless compassion for all beings by definition.

[Anonymous No.13899978]

>>13898864
don’t read the lotus sutra until you’re at the very least a stream-enterer/first bhumi and deeply familiar with the prajnaparamita teachings, teachings on emptiness and dependent arising.
It’s not supposed to be read by beginners, since without firsthand supramundane wisdom (or without any experience of it), it will automatically be misunderstood. Understanding some texts requires knowledge of prerequisite texts, while the Lotus Sutra requires at least a glimpse of Nirvana.

[Anonymous No.13900227]

>>13898864
I've been trying to translate an incredibly weird script from India, this might be up your street.

>“And several ages passed. A man existed which came to be known as Raj. He called himself the dekaya. He showed the bengali the danger of the yenrader and how yenraders still walked amongst them. And a bengali asked him "if yenraders still exist, where are they?" Raj revealed his computer to the bengalis and which showed the location of the yenraders throughout bengal. and the bengalis saw this and were amazed. "let us kill the yenraders" the bengalis said. But Raj said no. "do not kill the yenraders" he said. "let us watch them and record what they do, and warn others of the danger of the yenrader. then bring them to the court and list their crimes for all to see. And finally, when everyone in the world is aware of the danger of the yenrader, when the entire world is watching, convict and execute the yenraders." And the bengalis agreed, not to kill the yenraders, but lie in wait, recording their crimes, and finally when the time is right, when everyone is aware of the yenraders, to convict and execute the yenraders ...(paragraph lost due to indecipherability)...

when the yenraders walls fall and no longer hide them, the world can look directly at the yenraders, and finally remove the yenraders from the world." And the bengalis heard this and became puzzled. "Where are the yenraders?" The bengalis asked. And Raj sat down and showed them "There are many bad people in the world" He said. "The thieves and the killers, the slanderers, and then the yenraders. (paragraph lost)
Here I will detail the genealogy of the various nations of the world and how they have managed to penetrate each one. The nation of China? It has been penetrated by yenraders. The nation of Japan? Yenraders are hiding within it. The nation of america? Yenraders have invaded it. The nation of brazil? They have been deceived. The nation of australia? They have been coerced. The nation of arabia? They have been subjugated. The nation of pakstan? They have been devastated. The nation of France? They have been attacked. The nation of england? They have been robbed. The nation of Ireland? They have been shut down. The nation of Punjab? The have been exposed. The nation of Gujrat? They have been corrupted. The nation of Germany? They have been paralysed. The nation of Thailand? They have been enslaved. The nation of Poland? They have been disarmed. The nation of Nigeria? They have been punished. The nation of Peru? They have been imprisoned. The nation of Rikesh? They have been consumed." Then Raj looked at the bengalis. "Where are the yenraders?" Raj asked. "The yenraders are everywhere.”

[Anonymous No.13900242]

>>13899978
What a bunch of bollocks lol. The Lotus Sutra is read regularly in EA and is a standard text. Stream entry is extremely hard to attain.

[Anonymous No.13900291]

>>13900227
lel what the fuck is this?

[a_poor_sinner !!eiHxl4pZe1i No.13900334]

>>13898895
>You're a retard and this is cringe. Religions are not sandboxes.
wrong

>>13898864
Check out the Questions of Menander, also called the Milinda Panha.

[a_poor_sinner !!eiHxl4pZe1i No.13900351]

>>13898864
incidentally the reification of morality is proper and correct. eventually philosophy stops being word games and becomes an endeavor to act for the good. it is not surprising that man would place this universal instinct in the realm of the sacred.

[Anonymous No.13900476]

Thanks guys. A lot of good suggestions. And no lel i'm not some freak that rejects compassion as a virtue. I consider myself pretty compassionate. I always try to not hurt anyone or anything. I always let out without killing whatever bugs gets into my apartment for example, be it spooky spiders, beetles, flies or wasps etc. Yeah maybe a bit goofy example but most people do not even do this.

My rejection of ahimsa is at a more fundamental level.

[Anonymous No.13901124]

>>13900242
>Stream entry is extremely hard to attain.
It doesn’t seem that way in the Suttas, in which many people attain to stream entry just by walking by the Buddha and hearing him utter a single sentence.
Also the way the Satipatthana Sutta describes the time it’d take to reach complete Unbinding or lesser stages close to it by developing the Satipatthanas (merely a week or so).

[Anonymous No.13901300]

>>13900476
Explain this fundamental level then.

[Anonymous No.13901345]

>>13901124
>It doesn’t seem that way in the Suttas, in which many people attain to stream entry just by walking by the Buddha and hearing him utter a single sentence.
You say that as if a Buddha arised in the world every week or so. For every person who just walked up to a Buddha and obtained freedom there is untold, countless lives spent in confusion and suffering for billions of years.

[Anonymous No.13901673]

>>13901345
the argument that they had accumulated sufficient karma to be born at the time of a Buddha is fair, but the point about the Satipatthana sutta still stands. Stream-entry isn’t impossible or near impossible, but is achievable with sufficient effort. This idea that stream-entry is only achievable by a select few secluded forest or cave-dwelling monks (let alone any higher attainments) is an inaccurate one. It is not uncommon for orthodox monastic Theravada teachers to recognize stream-entry in dedicated lay students.

[Anonymous No.13902249]

>>13898906
Lol, imagine calling a 2500 year religion a fad. Cope beyond cope

[Anonymous No.13902354]

>>13899571
bdsm can be compassionate bro

[Anonymous No.13902528]

>>13901124
>>13901673
the other day i asked if anyone who sincerely reads the dharma can be said to have attained stream entry and some anon said that you'd have to have a palpable flash of nirvana

[Anonymous No.13902681]

>>13902528
that would be the traditionally accepted criteria for stream-entry, yes. Even in the suttas, the stream-enterer is said to realize Nirvana directly for a brief moment. They see through all the sankharas and realize it firsthand.
It is possible to attain to stream-entry from reading the suttas or from listening to a Dharma talk, assuming the talk/sutta prompts you to investigate your immediate phenomenological reality in such a meditative way that produces the insight necessary for stream-entry, but it is fairly uncommon. Regular meditation practice (and for many people, retreats) are necessary for stream-entry nowadays. I’ve never heard of someone today reaching it by pure luck or on a whim without any sort of dedicated practice.

[Anonymous No.13902843]

>>13898864
>complete the system of Aryan Idealism
it's already complete what is left is the translation into different cultural expressions

[Anonymous No.13904246]

>>13902843
Who completed it?

[Anonymous No.13904317]

>>13902681
>>13901673
>>13901345
Today a lot of Americans are reaching stream-entry.
Culadasa, Daniel Ingram, and others are writing good books of how to attain it.

[Anonymous No.13904326]

>>13904317
quality bait my friend

[Anonymous No.13904358]

>>13904246
Adi Shankara

[Anonymous No.13904529]

>>13904358
based