/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13857921]

le shitty reddit argument against Pascal wager debunked.
>I may not have benefits from believing in the Christian God becoz there might be other God like Allah or Zeus who would punish me for not believing in him
>implying that Allah is not going to punish you for being a fucking fedora atheist, lmao. You are doomed anyways, so better to choose the option that gives you chances for salvation

atheists BTFO

[Anonymous No.13857942]

>>13857921
But that just makes it an argument for Islam lmao

[Anonymous No.13857961]

>>13857942
Wtf are you saying retard. In the case of Islam you can argue that it may not exist Allah but YHWH. It's the same

[Anonymous No.13858033]

Bump

[Anonymous No.13858037]

Actually, god not real.

[Anonymous No.13858045]

>>13858037
You'd better change your beliefs anon

[Anonymous No.13858060]

>>13857961
Why would I be Christian instead of Muslim?

[Anonymous No.13858064]

>>13857921
What's with the invasion of Christian LARPers in the last year or so? I bet none of you have been to church in the last year at least lol

[Anonymous No.13858070]

No you should believe in my god that will rape you and your family's asshole for eternity if you don't believe in him instead

[Anonymous No.13858071]

>>13857921
What the fuck are you even saying?

[Anonymous No.13858079]

Le Pari de Pascal, bordel... La plus grosse honte de ce pays

>>13857921
Pascal's wager is already reddit tier

[Anonymous No.13858090]

>>13857942
also Zeus

[Anonymous No.13858109]

>>13858070
Allah is kinda cool though, he offers 72 virgins just for me but he wants me to do some crazy shit here on earth, but idk I'm still looking for the one that offers me an infinite supply of hedonist wealths, an eternity is an eternity you know.

[Anonymous No.13858125]

>>13858060
Because you don't mind whether you believe in one God or another. Your belief is not genuine. You have no reasons for start believing in Allah nor God, but to praise one. And the argument was made by a Christian Jansenist so there you are.

[Anonymous No.13858140]

>>13858079
There was a mathematician who converted into Christianism after deeply analyzing the Pascal's wager with a Benedictine monk. For one good thing you frogs have, you reject it

[Anonymous No.13858201]

>>13858140
Pascal wager is just a sophisticated way of threatening you with hell.

[Anonymous No.13858245]

>>13858201
But mathematically is correct, you obtain more benefits by believing than without belief, even considering the possibility in which everything is fiction. Atheists like to LARP about "muh reason", but when it comes the time of taking the analytically reasonable options they just forget about it.

[Anonymous No.13858365]

>>13858125
Your argument is as incoherent as your grammar.

By the way, this entire argument is ridiculously stupid for the very fact that one can not "choose" beliefs. For instance, I could not choose to believe that Abraham Lincoln is still alive. Virtually no philosophers believe in doxastic voluntarism.

[Anonymous No.13858372]

>>13858245
A "mathematically correct" Pascal wager would be subscribing to a religion that includes an entire pantheon of Gods.

[Anonymous No.13858381]

>18 replies
>not one single mention of Pensées
Pathetic

[Anonymous No.13858388]

>>13858245
belief is not subject to will. you cannot will yourself to believe something. and disingenuous religious practice is more likely to hurt your "chances" than improve them, on top of coming with real life costs (time, energy)

[Anonymous No.13858393]

>>13858388
Deuteronomy 4:29
>But from there you will seek the Lord your God and you will find him, if you search after him with all your heart and with all your soul.
Proverbs 8:17
>I love those who love me, and those who seek me diligently find me.
Jeremiah 29:13
>You will seek me and find me, when you seek me with all your heart.
Matthew 7:7-8
>Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened.
Isaiah 55:6-7
>Seek the Lord while he may be found; call upon him while he is near; let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts; let him return to the Lord, that he may have compassion on him, and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.
Lamentations 3:25
>The Lord is good to those who wait for him, to the soul who seeks him.
James 4:8
>Draw near to God, and he will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners, and purify your hearts, you double-minded.
2 Chronicles 7:14
>If my people who are called by my name humble themselves, and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then I will hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and heal their land.
Matthew 5:6
>Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.

[Anonymous No.13858401]

>>13858388
Does anyone know the name of that thought experiment about you getting a payout if you hire a hit man to kill you or something? I read about it along time ago. ITs a good example of illustrating that you can never will yourself to truly believe something

[Anonymous No.13858414]

>>13858388
You're assuming the non-existence of the Holy Spirit by saying these things. Belief isn't necessarily a self-willing act, or one lacking in receptivity.

[Anonymous No.13858430]

>>13858372
If there is a GOD there can't be other one.

[Anonymous No.13858432]

>>13858245
Mathematics is lenguaje, an instrument we can use to understan reality WITHIN this universe, do you want to play like a big boy? Time to show proofs then, because is not about "muh reason", is about showing empirical evidence and scientific knowledge because here is where we can use maths to understand THIS universe and its rules, until you do this keep this threads to yourself pascalboy, cause you got nothing but a wager as result of speculation

[Anonymous No.13858433]

>>13858060
muslims are pedo rapists

[Anonymous No.13858441]

>>13858060
Quran 2:62 tells you that Christians can go to heaven. John 14:6 tell you that Jesus is the only way. What to choose....

[Anonymous No.13858450]

>>13858441
Logically, Christianity

[Anonymous No.13858471]

>>13858450
this same process more or less applies for many other religions. Christianity is totally exclusive, whereas not all religions are. But atheists like to pretend that not being a Buddhist or Hindu or whatever is just as dangerous if those religions are true as if you were a non-Christian and Christianity were true. Even if you pile up the prophecies and the reasonable messages from Christianity and you still do not think the religion is definitely, absolutely, 100% true, then it's still much more likely and much more practical than all other religions

[Anonymous No.13858510]

Just here to lmao at the sub 50 IQ "theists"

[Anonymous No.13858522]

>>13858372
Not quite. It would be to adopt, or worship, all the mutually non-exclusive religions, or gods, that punish after death and do not require true belief. Jealous gods reduce your utility for evading hades and/or shitty reincarnations.

>>13858388
>>13858365
>>13858414
Ah, so superficial. Some religions are literally are do X, get Y result. More in the old testament style. And these must be considered due to the wording of the wager.

>>13858432
The wager assumes math.

[Anonymous No.13858526]

>>13858388
>you cannot will yourself to believe something
yeah, let your feelings prevent you from taking the best objective option

[Anonymous No.13858527]

>>13858522
what are some mutually exclusive religions that don't just emphasize good works? Christianity is the only one I can think of

[Anonymous No.13858530]

>>13858450
The Quran refers to Jews and Christians by "People of the Book" and says that all their deeds are counted and that they too will go to heaven. So as long as your not an Athiest/Polythiest/Retard you're in the green.

[Anonymous No.13858532]

>>13857921
There’s an equally large chance that you can only go to heaven if you’re an atheist.

[Anonymous No.13858535]

>>13857921
Nevertheless I still choose to be an atheist. If God does exist I like to think he'd respect me for my stance against his tyranny.

[Anonymous No.13858538]

>>13858510
50 - 99 IQ - Thiest
100 IQ - Athiest, Midwit
101+ IQ - Thiest

[Anonymous No.13858540]

>>13858532
Also true. See the concept of Limbo in the Roman Catholic theology

[Anonymous No.13858541]

>>13858526
>feelings BAD

[Anonymous No.13858548]

>>13858527
Christianity contains several mutually exclusive religions.

[Anonymous No.13858550]

>>13858535
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gL5CrxblRDg

[Anonymous No.13858552]

>>13858535
>Tyranny, A human concept
>God
Pick one faggot

[Anonymous No.13858553]

>>13858538
>Thiest
>x3

Excellent

[Anonymous No.13858554]

>>13858530
even if that weren't true, we KNOW Christianity is definitely exclusive, so the best bet is obviously to seek the Christian God. But Islam affirms a religion that is totally exclusive, therefore negating itself, so we can judge Islam to be retarded anyway

[Anonymous No.13858564]

>>13858548
you still try to find an excuse. The Bible is clear on what it takes to be saved. It's foolish to believe that only one denomination is capable of saving you. Though there definitely are some strange ones that any Bible-knowing Christians would know to stay away from.

[Anonymous No.13858567]

>>13857921
>only be alive once
>pick a God so that i might not get punished in death
>Got it wrong there is no God
>Wasted life in worship.

>only be alive once
>pick a God so that i might not get punished in death
>get it right
>wasted life in worship

[Anonymous No.13858568]

>>13858541
>when feelings prevent you from taking the absolute benefit of course they are wrong.
>i-i can't because I can't!

[Anonymous No.13858571]

>>13858552
God is a human concept too though.

[Anonymous No.13858573]

>>13858554
Islam's purpose was to reinstate and clear up misunderstandings about previous Abrahamic thought. It's so similar to Christianity, that even if Christianity is exclusive, that believing in islam has enough overlap that its justifiable.

[Anonymous No.13858575]

>>13858388
t.retard

[Anonymous No.13858577]

>>13858567
>wasted life in worship
right, because Christians are so much more miserable than atheists. You people have to come up with some serious cope. Even if we all go to the ground after we die, then we will all be equal and it will not have mattered how you lived

[Anonymous No.13858579]

>>13858571
Maybe religion. But it depends on your definition of a god.

[Anonymous No.13858582]

>>13858441
pretty sure the utilitarian approach to religion is worse than atheism

[Anonymous No.13858583]

>>13858552
If you created a bunch of little beings and made them fight and suffer to survive solely for your amusement would you respect the ones that worshiped you or the ones who rebelled? I know I'd prefer the rebels. If God exists, and if he's cool, he'll like me more than the pathetic grovelers. Who knows, we might even become friends.

[Anonymous No.13858585]

>>13858568
>the absolute benefit
>absolute benefit
>against your feelings
Not so absolute then is it, you masochist cultist
>IF YOU LIKE BAD
>SUFFER GOOD

[Anonymous No.13858587]

>>13858535
The logic here fails. If God is a tyrant, then he will not respect you for rejecting him. If God is not a tyrant, then God will not respect you for rejecting him.

[Anonymous No.13858588]

>>13858577
Kek this, every twitter Athiest i see is a fat depressed slob with dyed hair, and every Christian one is a good looking married woman with kids, who retweets wholesome bible quotes occasionally.

[Anonymous No.13858591]

>>13858587
Then he's not worth believing in.

[Anonymous No.13858592]

>>13858582
>utilitarian
do you even know what that word means? Try to compose a meaningful argument so I can actually engage with what you're saying

[Anonymous No.13858596]

>>13858583
If you created a universe with its own rules, and life flourished as a result of some coincidence, how would you know whats suffering and what isn't?

[Anonymous No.13858598]

>>13858591
why not? If you believe, and you will find peace as a result, why shouldn't you believe?

[Anonymous No.13858599]

>>13858585
I said The Absolute Benefit
>it's bad because it hurts!
go read Plato kid

[Anonymous No.13858602]

>>13858526
it is in fact reason, not emotions, which prevents one from believing a statement for reasons which do not actually support that statement.
what is the best objective opinion? certainly for it to be the best opinion, it would have to be true, or at least have the highest chance of being true, not merely be the most useful.

[Anonymous No.13858608]

>>13858522
Any wager assume maths you imbecile, where are the proofs though?

[Anonymous No.13858609]

>>13858577
>funding the largest organisation of paedophiles outside of Islam
Being a christian sure is good.

[Anonymous No.13858612]

>>13858602
we only care about the truth because it is useful. That's why you have faith that tomorrow will exist, and work today. Also, emotions totally restrict your ability to believe. Example: pride

[Anonymous No.13858615]

>>13858599
Look at this picture really hard and if you cant figure out what is wrong in 5 minutes you can admit you are retarded and I will explain it to you

[Anonymous No.13858621]

>>13858598
Because, frankly, I find God's little experiment cruel and immature.

[Anonymous No.13858622]

>>13858564
>The Bible is clear on what it takes to be saved.

Not clear enough, evidently because some Christians think other Christians will go to hell. And that is fact.

[Anonymous No.13858623]

>>13858609
are you trying to make a point here? Why must you use such immature, snarky phrasing? Can't you just honestly engage in the discussion?

[Anonymous No.13858627]

>>13858622
>some believers have blurry thinking therefore the whole religion is flawed
that's like saying Islam is peaceful because there are peaceful Muslims

[Anonymous No.13858634]

>>13858591
>he's not worth believing in.
God doesn't care, he is going to punish you eternally anyways

[Anonymous No.13858635]

>>13858621
what is a better experiment? Enlighten us. Show us the mature experiment. Design a better world

[Anonymous No.13858639]

>>13857921
BASED

[Anonymous No.13858641]

>>13858596
I'd be omniscient and omnipotent like God.

[Anonymous No.13858644]

>>13858554
Which Christian God though.

[Anonymous No.13858645]

>>13858538

[Anonymous No.13858648]

>>13858634
If he would childishly punish me for not worshiping him then he's not worth worshiping.

[Anonymous No.13858655]

>>13858644
see>>13858564
All scripture is God-breathed, and useful for teaching. Do what it says to do, and don't do what it says not to do

[Anonymous No.13858661]

>>13858623
OK honest discussion.
Good atheists get to go to heaven, there is no longer a requirement of believing in God to get to heaven. This is the message from Pope Francis.

As such prayer is a massive waste of time, as is participation in the Church.

[Anonymous No.13858662]

>>13858627
Doesn't matter. The wager must rely on messy human understandings of religion, not one 'correct' understanding of any religion. Assuming that would beg the question we're trying to answer.

[Anonymous No.13858667]

>>13858612
>we only care about the truth because it is useful.
the truth of this statement depends on how you mean 'because'. it is true in a causal/evolutionary sense, but false in the conceptual sense. it is part of man as he exists today, that he is a creature of reason. this has normative epistemological implications, notably taking truth as a value in an of itself, to which our opinions have to measure up.
>That's why you have faith that tomorrow will exist, and work today.
>Also, emotions totally restrict your ability to believe. Example: pride
true but irrelevant.

[Anonymous No.13858668]

>>13858648
>childly punish
massive over-simplification here. If you reject God, you will suffer by default, forever enshrouded by your past sins and attachments to the physical plane. Also, even if your exaggeration were accurate, why in the world would that justify your seeking your own suffering?!

[Anonymous No.13858675]

>>13858655
You've assumed the answer to a question without overcoming the problem to the answer.

[Anonymous No.13858677]

>>13858661
>Good atheists
no man is good, theist or not. That is the underlying principle of Christianity

[Anonymous No.13858681]

>>13858675
I'm sorry, what are you even trying to say here? This whole thread is embarrassing. There is hardly a discussion taking place

[Anonymous No.13858682]

>>13858677
Good as in how a baker is good, or how a musician is good.

[Anonymous No.13858683]

>>13858608
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pascal%27s_wager
>Analysis with decision theory

[Anonymous No.13858693]

>>13858573
Exclusive is bad here though. You want to load up on as many work based religions and gods as possible.

Do you understand.

[Anonymous No.13858705]

>>13858682
no baker is perfect, and no musician is perfect. Likewise, no man is perfectly righteous. You cannot attain true peace and salvation and be near God's perfect holiness unless you are made perfect. That is why Jesus' sacrifice is necessary.

[Anonymous No.13858706]

>>13858615
ad lapidem fallacy

[Anonymous No.13858740]

>>13858705
Jesus' sacrifice happened regardless of belief in it. Jesus died for everyone not just believers.

[Anonymous No.13858746]

>>13858681
You have committed an informal logical fallacy. Your argument is essentially a circle.

A wager is presented to an atheist by telling them of dire consequences after death if they don't follow some religion. The atheist responds that there are many and they contradict each other. You assert that you know this one is correct, and the only true version of it. But that is what the wager is intended to answer. If you can simply assert which religion within Christianity is correct the wager isn't even needed.

Do you understand now?

[Anonymous No.13858758]

>>13858740
Weak argument.

[Anonymous No.13858762]

>>13858740
you must accept the sacrifice, else your sin of rejecting God would remain. If atheists were allowed into heaven, they wouldn't be enjoying themselves

[Anonymous No.13858779]

>>13858706
Ok here is the answer
Your board does account only for a hypothetical post mortem and not how these beliefs also affect your actual very real life you insufferable retard

[Anonymous No.13858783]

>>13858746
why should one have to know which denomination is totally correct if they all teach the necessary truths needed for salvation? There are numerous Biblical translations, sure, but do any of them leave out Jesus' teachings on what it takes to be saved? It's as if you think someone who believes in the slightest false idea will be damned forever.

[Anonymous No.13858804]

Great you just restated the argument.

[Anonymous No.13858813]

I love you based Pascalboy, never change. Keep owning the reddits.

[Anonymous No.13858818]

>>13858706
>>13858746
>muh ad hominem
>muh strawman
>muh composition fallacy
>muh steelman
>muh appeal to tradition
>muh appeal to novelty
>muh ad lapidem
>muh appeal to stone
>muh appeal to authority
>muh circular logic
>muh whataboutism
>muh red herring
>muh goalposts
>muh no true Scotsman
>muh false equivalence
>muh divine fallacy
>muh false authority
>muh fallacy of division
>muh false dichotomy
>muh burden of proof
>muh begging the question
>muh loaded question
>muh special pleading
>muh cherry picking
>muh argument from ignorance
>muh appeal to emotion
>muh appeal to nature
>muh naturalistic fallacy
>muh ad baculum
>muh appeal to consensus
>muh appeal to popularity
>muh genetic fallacy
Argument from fallacy is the formal fallacy of analyzing an argument and inferring that, since it contains a fallacy, its conclusion must be false
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_fallacy

[Anonymous No.13858820]

>>13858783
>It's as if you think someone who believes in the slightest false idea will be damned forever.

No, it's the Christians who do. And they are just as capable of setting the wager to other Christians. Because to, say, the Westboro Baptist Church or Jehovah's Witnesses, most Christians are in the same hell bound boat as the atheist.

So how is the atheist, who cannot assume any religion is correct, to choose, when the even the Christians can't?

[Anonymous No.13858826]

>>13858818
muh reject logics and fallacies because discussion must be free

[Anonymous No.13858836]

>>13858820
If a Christians said that Jesus was gay, would that make it true? If a Muslim told you Islam is peaceful, should you believe him? Why are you so hung up on this fallacious thinking? What is preventing you from reading the Bible and finding out what is truly necessary for salvation?

[Anonymous No.13858837]

>>13858818
>argument from fallacy fallacy
>thinking that instances where arguments that were intended to support some conclusion have been pointed out as fallacious are themselves always fallacious since the conclusion has not been shown to be false, even though nobody has made that claim

[Anonymous No.13858848]

>>13858818
Based Basement Boy

[Anonymous No.13858853]

>>13858837
>muh appeal to argument from fallacy fallacy
https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/the-fallacy-fallacy

[Anonymous No.13858860]

>>13858836
If a Christians said that Jesus was gay, would that make it true? If a Muslim told you Islam is peaceful, should you believe him?

For the purposes of the wager, we're assuming religions are true. So yes to both.

Why do you reject gay Jesus? And peaceful Islam? Don't you know you risk your eternal life?

On a side note, Jesus was a life long bachelor who hung out with a bunch of dudes in a loincloth and kissed them on the lips. Food for thought.

[Anonymous No.13858865]

>>13858779
stupid faggot, a temporary suffering it's nothing compared to the gain of endless happiness, and a temporary pleasure it's a joke when compared to eternal damnation. If it's false, wow, you suffered so much, but what could have happened if it was real? It's like a lottery whose price is twenty dollars, the prize is endless money, and you have 50% chances to win. hahahaha you are going to save the money for what, retard?

And what, do you suffer only by believing? lmao what a faggot
>uh now that I believe there is a God up there I suffer uh uh please end my pain

[Anonymous No.13858881]

>>13858853
i was actually pointing out the fallacy fallacy fallacy employed in the post i responded too

[Anonymous No.13858883]

>>13858860
you dont' "assume" any religion is true. If you knew anything about the origins of Pascal's Wager, then you would know that Pascal devoted considerable effort towards demonstrating why Christianity is the only religion worth following. He does simply expect you to believe him because he is a Christian. Educate yourself before you waste your and others' time in discussions, please

[Anonymous No.13858893]

>>13858883
>does
*doesn't

[Anonymous No.13858940]

>>13858060
You shouldn't.

>>13858441
That's talking about people who haven't heard of Islam, see Qur'an 3:85. If you knowingly reject Islam, you will be doomed on the Day of Resurrection. So I wonder which one should we choose: a religion with an actually logical conception of God, or one where three distinct persons are worshipped but it's definitely still monotheism guys bcuz they somehow exist in one essence?

[Anonymous No.13858945]

>>13858883
>you dont' "assume" any religion is true. If you knew anything about the origins of Pascal's Wager, then you would know that Pascal devoted considerable effort towards demonstrating why Christianity is the only religion worth following. He does simply expect you to believe him because he is a Christian. Educate yourself before you waste your and others' time in discussions, please

I like how you've likened yourself to Pascal and taken vicarious pride in how much effort you've exerted, while also using that to position others who haven't below you.

This makes you very likable, so I'll be following your instructions. Where to start?

[Anonymous No.13858952]

>>13858940
The Bible teaches that Jesus is the Son of God, and the only way to the Father. So why does the Quran affirm something so contradictory to its teachings? Why did the coming of Muhammad suddenly invalidate Christianity?

[Anonymous No.13858958]

>>13858865
peak brainlet

[Anonymous No.13858960]

>>13858945
>>13858381

[Anonymous No.13858970]

>>13858958
ad lapidem fallacy. Not an argument.

[Anonymous No.13858984]

>>13858865
>>13858970

>you have 50% chances to win
>god existence is 50-50
>because I feel like it
You stupid asshole, you are just making a case against any theist lmao
Even if it is, just the chance of picking the right god from the entire pantheon is near fucking nil
Keep throwing latin phrases around that make you sound smart you intellectual midget

[Anonymous No.13858993]

>>13858984
>Even if it is, just the chance of picking the right god from the entire pantheon is near fucking nil
Someone hasn’t been reading the thread

[Anonymous No.13859010]

>>13858993
Oh we have been reading the thread, we are just disregarding the blatant attack against all logic that your imbecilic thought process is

[Anonymous No.13859020]

>>13858952
Textual criticism has shown that there is no reason to take the religious claims of the New Testament with anything more than a grain of salt. The textual history of the Qur'an and the hadith are a complete contrast to what we have with the NT, and as Jonathan Brown notes, the efforts of the early Christians in preserving the authenticity of their tradition pale in comparison to what we see with the Muslims. Textual criticism has torn apart the Bible, while what textual criticism has been done on the Qur'an has only been confirming what Muslims have been saying for years, that the Qur'an has been preserved by God, and we have no reason to doubt that our Islam is the Islam taught by Muhammad.

[Anonymous No.13859029]

>>13859020
You didn’t address a single thing I said
>>13859010
With that mindset, nothing will convince you. Your ego is too large. How could you possibly change your stance after saying such things? Pearls before swine

[Anonymous No.13859031]

>>13858683
Do you understand what scientific or empirical evidence means? And if I play along this is based on a presupposition, you understand that right? and even if I go further, you are applying maths to something that's not WITHIN this universe, so what the fuck? That's my next question

[Anonymous No.13859042]

>>13859029
I literally showed why it doesn't matter what the Bible says, and why saying the Qur'an contradicts the Bible is pointless, since the Bible has been changed and contradicts itself.

[Anonymous No.13859049]

>>13859029
Do you honestly believe the "arguements" you have presented here deserve anything more than mockery?

[Anonymous No.13859052]

>>13859042
You didn’t offer any evidence. You also haven’t explained what the “Christians” are in 2:62. You also haven’t explained why God would allows Jews and Christians into heaven before Muhammad, but not after Muhammed

[Anonymous No.13859055]

>>13859031
>muuuuuhhhh scientific evidences for metaphysics
>meta-physics
>science= empirical observations
>making empirical observations in a realm beyond the physics

[Anonymous No.13859059]

why is everyone so angry and hateful

[Anonymous No.13859073]

>>13859049
I’m not sure who “you” is. I certainly wasn’t in your comment chain. I’m >>13858381
>>13858393
>>13858414
>>13858441
>>13858471
>>13858527
>>13858554
>>13858564
>>13858587
>>13858592
>>13858598
>>13858623
>>13858627
>>13858635
>>13858655
>>13858668
>>13858677
>>13858705
>>13858783
>>13858836
>>13858883
Did you read all these posts?

[Anonymous No.13859081]

>>13859059
Because atheists can't cope with the fact that Christians exist.

[Anonymous No.13859091]

>>13859059
>why is everyone so angry and hateful
the supreme being has finally arrived

[Anonymous No.13859092]

>>13859052
Read an introduction to textual criticism and go from there. I'm just restating the scholarly consensus that the New Testament is merely a cobbling together of a bunch of dubious literary works from one among many branches of early Christianity.
The Christians in Q. 2:62 are those who came before Muhammad; the Arabic is in the past tense. The reason they would be allowed into heaven before him is because God would not hold people accountable for things outside of their knowledge, but once they know of Islam, they would be held accountable for rejecting what has been revealed by God. It's very simple.

[Anonymous No.13859093]

>>13859059
atheists rejecting truth just as Thanos rejects peas

[Anonymous No.13859100]

>>13859059
if people actually took their religions seriously maybe they wouldn't be calling each other retards and faggots, but deep down we all know we won't have to account for any of these games

[Anonymous No.13859102]

>>13859081
a constant reminder that they might be wrong. In their case, their eagerness to find every possible way to discredit religion, even at the cost of honest analysis, is understandable, as they would rather not live with the idea that their sins will lead to suffering and that their current lifestyle won’t avoid that fate

[Anonymous No.13859114]

>>13859091
actually your response gave me a good laugh.

[Anonymous No.13859116]

>>13859092
>The reason they would be allowed into heaven before him is because God would not hold people accountable for things outside of their knowledge, but once they know of Islam
But why would the Islamic God punish modern Christians who only know of the existence of Islam, and are still very ignorant? What reason do they have to believe that Muhammad was necessary? His coming certainly isn’t in the Bible. So how could God blame them for ignorance now, but not before Mohammed?

[Anonymous No.13859123]

>>13859100
It is the opposite, actually. Due to our serious deep beliefs, we defend what we see as an evidence with all the resources.

[Anonymous No.13859155]

>>13859055
Yes I know you are a retard and don't understand what I'm saying, next time be careful when you are trying to act smart cause you might end up saying stupid shit like this >>13858245 again

[Anonymous No.13859163]

>>13859116
Because He does what He wills (Qur'an 14:27) is the simple answer, but the truth of Islam is self-evident to any sincere seeker, since it conforms to our innate nature as slaves created to worship God alone. It's not a question of whether Muhammad was "necessary" or conforms to your preconceptions. Jesus wasn't what the Jews were expecting. It's simply a question of whether Islam is true, and everyone in their heart of hearts knows that it is.

[Anonymous No.13859181]

>>13859163
>Jesus wasn't what the Jews were expecting
Interesting point, but the OT actually prophesied this. Nothing in the NT says anything about Muhammad. And should be there be a new prophet? It makes no sense.

The rest of your post is just sad.

[Anonymous No.13859183]

>>13858588
LARPing does not count

[Anonymous No.13859193]

>>13858883
Pascal attacked plenty of Christians himself. The wager is a stand alone argument. Literally a fragment.

[Anonymous No.13859209]

>>13858245
>But mathematically is correct
Nah, man. Pascal wager is a meta-question. A way of avoiding the question of the existence of God altogether. It is like if I while doing a math exam come to a question which I don't know how to respond, then I guess an answer but my teacher demands the calculations in order to give me my points. So I half-ass my calculations to try and justify my unfounded biased guess. He would never try and solve a mathematical question and claim to have found truth this way. Yet he insists on applying this kind of reasoning on the teological field. Even worse and that's what strikes me the most is that even a genius like him might refuse to think disinterestedly about a subject which he is really passional about. This is dishonest on all levels. This bet is nothing more than the utilitarianism of Mill on a cosmic scale. It's like saying something is true because it can make you get ahead in the afterlife. A monument to cowardice of the worst kind. I might be better off reading Spinoza if I want a somewhat mathematical approach to "The question". At least I guess he's really gonna talk about it and not argue about how much it can be profitable to me.

[Anonymous No.13859210]

>>13859193
Pascal also criticizes atheists who don’t investigate religions and lazily assume that there’s no point and all religions are equally likely

[Anonymous No.13859222]

>>13859181
It makes no sense to you because you presuppose a Christocentric prophetology. Nowhere in the Bible does it say that prophecy ended with Jesus. In fact, it's pretty clear that the Holy Spirit will continue to be active in the world.

[Anonymous No.13859251]

>>13859222
>you will know them by their fruits
>Mohammed killed
Easy.
>Nowhere in the Bible does it say that prophecy ended with Jesus
True, but it also doesn’t say that one day following Jesus will prevent you from going to hell

[Anonymous No.13859267]

>>13859210
>Pascal also criticizes atheists who don’t investigate religions and lazily assume that there’s no point and all religions are equally likely

This thread is about the wager. Good thing too. His other arguments for Christianity are dog shit.

[Anonymous No.13859273]

>>13859251
Do you seriously believe the Bible teaches pacifism?

[Anonymous No.13859293]

>>13859273
Do you seriously believe the Bible condones stealing and killing those who’ve done nothing to you? Why waste your time making such empty sayings? Why not post a verse that defends Muhammed’s behavior? You can’t, that’s why.

[Anonymous No.13859330]

>>13859293
The Bible condones killing those who lead others astray in religion (Deuteronomy 13:12-18).

[Anonymous No.13859345]

>>13859330
Those laws don’t condone going out of your way to find non-believers and kill them.

[Anonymous No.13859387]

>>13859345
You're moving the goalposts. Is there a huge moral difference?

[Anonymous No.13859414]

>>13859387
In one case, there are people among your people spreading false ideas, trying to change you from the correct path. In the other case, they are worshipping their gods privately. Also note the difference between teaching ideas that contradict the Jewish faith and simply not being Jewish. The law is specifically directed towards people willingly trying to make people worship other gods

[Anonymous No.13859419]

>>13859209
It is pretty well-attested that von Neumann converted to Roman Catholicism on his deathbed after considering Pascal's Wager. You know more about maths than a Nobel prize?

[Anonymous No.13859428]

>>13859419
do*

[Anonymous No.13859479]

>>13859414
This is literally how the jizya system works. Jews and Christians are allowed to practice their faith privately as long as they don't proselytize. This is how it works under an Islamic state. At war the standards are obviously different.

[Anonymous No.13859487]

>>13859123
I don't give a shit retard

[Anonymous No.13859536]

>>13859419
Deathbed story + Argument from authority. Quite previsible. You didn't acknowledge my points, Pascal guy. Try and philosophy.

[Anonymous No.13859542]

>>13859536
not Pascal guy btw

[Anonymous No.13859567]

>>13859542
The point persists.

[Anonymous No.13859577]

>>13859567
not him, I don’t care about this chain, but I certainly wouldn’t have typed anything similar to this post >>13859419
so I can’t defend him

[Anonymous No.13859587]

>>13859536
Argument from authority or whatever, you still being an atheist midwit who cannot seek truth because the size of your ego and who talks about mathematics when one of the greatest mathematicians of History was Pascal himself and another of the greatest mathematician minds, Von Neumann, was converted into Catholicism after deeply analyzing the wager. come on, disprove those "mathematics", you fool. i am waiting.

[Anonymous No.13859601]

ITT: pascalboy getting utterly BTFO

[Anonymous No.13859619]

>>13859601
>Pascal mathematics aren't mathematics because blablabla
>actually he didn't disprove anything mathematically
>the wager has the support of a novel mathematician
>pascalboy BTFO xd

[Anonymous No.13859628]

>>13859601
>>13859619
What are you two even on about? Pascalanon never mentions mathematics

[Anonymous No.13859632]

>>13859587
>Von Neumann, was converted into Catholicism
How does one learn such a terrible power

to become the largest religion known to man

[Anonymous No.13859642]

>>13859632
English is not my first language. Stop mocking and believe in the Gospels you fedora retarded

[Anonymous No.13859662]

>>13859419
cherry-picking, mother Theresa doubted god and felt no spirit

[Anonymous No.13859665]

>>13859619

And? You're still a gigantic faggot who gets laughed at by the whole of /lit/ on a regular basis, and this thread is a testament to it. No one likes you, pascalboy. All you can do is post the same bullshit over and over again, the same fallacious shit that gets debunked every single time it gets posted. Then, when people have refuted every faggy little point you've made, you just plug your ears, pretend you didn't hear them and keep spewing your bullshit, usually laced with some low effort namecalling. Do you really have nothing better to do with your life? I didn't even respond to this thread up until now, because unlike you, I actually have a life. I just look at you with mild amusement, usually thinking what an autistic faggot one must be to keep spamming the same nonsensical arguments that get pulled apart every single time, and how pathetic you must be to keep at it for a good portion of your day, seriously thinking anyone will be convinced by your fallacious horseshit. Anyway, you're pathetic, nobody likes you, and in the same time you posted your autistic pascal faggotry, I actually did something with my life. Unlike you, I actually have a job to go to, and unlike you I actually contribute to society, something you'll never do

[Anonymous No.13859675]

>>13859642

[Anonymous No.13859688]

>>13859665
>I have a wagie job and a normal life! you must be like me!
Is this your last argument?

[Anonymous No.13859711]

>>13859688

So you're a faggot NEET as well? That explains a whole lot about you, mainly where you get the time to post your autistic faggotry. So where do you live, with mommy and daddy? What's the matter, did got not bless your worthless incel ass enough to move the fuck out of your mom's basement? LMAO, you're basically the fat loser fedora faggot you project onto others. How pathetic

[Anonymous No.13859724]

>>13859711
This is Pascalanon>>13859073

[Anonymous No.13859730]

>>13859711
What the actual fuck, why are you asking about my life? Does it matter? Is that you have been dialectically destroyed and you have to compensate your ego loss with some boring details about my life so you can feel superior again?

[Anonymous No.13859781]

>>13859730

>Does it matter?

Yes, it actually does. You accuse others of being losers because they disagree with your theological point of view, when this whole time, you were merely projecting your own pathetic life onto others. My educated guess is that you probably don't have any friends, still live with mommy and daddy, are a NEET and are merely using your pascal faggotry to avoid having to face up to the existential crisis your life has become. Yet, instead of blaming yourself for this mess you're in right now, you shitpost Pascal's theology to anonymous strangers who don't give a shit about you. All so that you can say you've lE TotALly DesTrOYed those pesky atheists. Only problem is that you're saying this to yourself, because you're a lonely, pathetic loser with no status, no job prospects, someone with absolutely nothing going for yourself. The fact that you would seriously persist in your autistic faggotry tells me more than enough.

[Anonymous No.13859784]

>>13858661
Believing Jesus died on the cross for our sins is the only way to salvation, do not heed this Reddit pope

[Anonymous No.13859823]

>>13859781
>Does it matter?
>Yes, it actually does
>>Ad hominem (Latin for "to the person"),[1] short for argumentum ad hominem, typically refers to a fallacious argumentative strategy whereby genuine discussion of the topic at hand is avoided by instead attacking the character, motive, or other attribute of the person making the argument, or persons associated with the argument, rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself

[Anonymous No.13859825]

>>13859781
What’s even more pathetic is your own obsessive behavior, believing everyone who defends Pascal is one person

[Anonymous No.13859851]

>>13859823
>>13859825

>thinking that samefagging will seriously convince anyone

Just do us all a favor and become a namefag. That way I can filter your useless lonely NEET incel ass

[Anonymous No.13859864]

>>13859851
>posts were 11 seconds apart
>still clings to the hope that he brutally destroyed his arch-nemesis Pascalboy
You’re amusing

[Anonymous No.13859872]

>>13859851

[Anonymous No.13859881]

>>13859864

For someone who isn't pascalboy, you sure take great offense to me insulting him. Also, nice paint skills

[Anonymous No.13859899]

>>13859881
The white bars on the side of the photo show that it’s a mobile screenshot

[Anonymous No.13859914]

>>13859899

That doesn't mean shit

[Anonymous No.13859940]

>>13859914
It would be difficult to edit the photo in less than 2 minutes on mobile then post this >>13859864
Or you could just accept the fact that the real Pascal boy wasn’t the anon you were arguing with. Sorry

[Anonymous No.13859978]

>>13859587
Only on his deathbed? Why not before if he was moved by his mathematical reasoning and not by his fear of eternal damnation?

[Anonymous No.13860002]

>>13859940

No, it isn't. You're pathetic, pascalboy. I don't even hate you, I feel sorry for you. You obviously have nothing better do with your time than collecting non existent internet points in front of anonymous people who will forget about you the moment they leave this site. Now, what I'd suggest to you is to get a fucking name and a tripcode, so that whoever enjoys hearing the same fallacious bullshit over and over again can do so, while I and people with shit to do during the day can filter your dumb seething incel NEET ass from this site. That way everybody wins. You have your audience of anonymous randoms who you can LE TOTALLY PWN and I can visit this board in peace and quiet, without being interrupted by faggy seething incels like you. It be much better if instead of this you got a job and moved out of your parents basement but hey, life isn't perfect

[Anonymous No.13860028]

>>13859181
Actually.. The problem is you already have a Christian interpretation of old and NT literature. In the absence of it you could very well deduce that there are references to Mohammad in both. For instance when God says in the old Testament how he will raise up 'another prophet like Moses from among your brothers' Christians interpret this as Christ, but Muslims focus on the term brothers here in reference to Ishmael brother of Isaac, meaning the prophet will be raised up among the Arabs. References to 'the helper' in the gospels are usually translated as Holy Spirit, but there's no real evidence that was the intended meaning and Christ could have been referring to a coming prophet.

[Anonymous No.13860041]

>>13860028
>16 And I will pray the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may abide with you forever— 17 the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him; but you know Him, for He dwells with you and will be in you. 18 I will not leave you orphans; I will come to you.
meh

[Anonymous No.13860063]

I think Pascal's wager misses the point of belief. If someone has "faith" because they are afraid of consequences, or because it seems better than the alternative they are missing the point. True faith is transformative, and changes the way everyday life is lived. It is this kind of faith that God, in theory, would reward. Pascal might be a good starting point, but it hardly does what, in my opinion, religions is supposed to do.

[Anonymous No.13860072]

>>13860063
You didn’t really explain what the point of faith is

[Anonymous No.13860098]

>>13860072
Fair enough. The point of faith is to transform one's inner and outer life and become a knight of faith. pascal's wager doesn't provide the necessary base to do so

[Anonymous No.13860112]

>>13860098
Pascal acknowledged the fact that even if you accept the wager, that doesn’t mean you have true belief. He said that you would still have to transform yourself by seeking God and attaining true faith.

[Anonymous No.13860457]

Paschal is a fool and his wager is based in fear. To live a life in fear is to be a slave. And a slave will always, even if it is in the darkest part of their heart, seek to be free. The shadow of a doubt is all it takes to blossom the atheist. Paschal's Wager will never convert anyone, for it is only a tool: for the religious anon to use in an argument when they've run out of cards or for the vile sinner rolling the dice.

>>13860063
>>13860072
>>13860098
>>13860112

You do not earn faith like money and you don't seek God(ess)(s)(etc.) like a grail. "Divinity" finds you and faith grows from that.

The reality of divinity doesn't matter in this regard, because when it is real or not to you then all else becomes moot.

[Anonymous No.13860479]

>>13860457
>To live a life in fear is to be a slave
Then what is the meaning of “fearing God” ?

[Anonymous No.13860870]

>>13860479

To be a slave.

[Anonymous No.13860895]

>>13858441
in this scenario i would believe in the quran that we know was written by the prophet, and the bible which we know was written by his freinds. at least with islam, you know you are following the correct path towards that religion, but the bible isnt even validated by your own holy prophet. if i were christian, what would not lead me to believe that the life and message of jesus was altered? if you were to think logically, it makes sense that one of jesus' friends said that jesus was the only way to rake up cash.

[Anonymous No.13860904]

>>13858567
life is so short. would you risk spending an eternity in flames just because you were to lazy to worship?

[Anonymous No.13860921]

>>13858064
4can't was so hellbent on not being 8can that when they kicked out all the "racists", they forgot to keep their braincells.

[Anonymous No.13860923]

>>13860904

An eternity of flames from one religion. Follow the gods of Ancient Egypt and your passage into the afterlife is dependent on your wealth.

Fearmongering won't win you followers, just amused observers.

[Anonymous No.13860985]

>TFW you have to spend your whole life trying to convince yourself you believe in the 3rd baptist church of Quebec is the one true religion because this gives a minute chance of spending eternity with a bunch of dull sociopaths instead of in hellfire like a nontrivial portion of your friends and family.
>TFW when you still have a vastly greater chance of being wrong and just have wasted your mortal life groveling just to be sent to hellfire anyway

Thomas Ligotti called, he said you're a bit bleak.

[Anonymous No.13860997]

>>13860985
reddit

[Anonymous No.13861004]

>>13860997
What about it?

[Anonymous No.13861015]

>>13860997

ur mum called, she wants her cumback LOL

[Anonymous No.13861449]

>>13857921
Not literature.
Enjoy your ban.

[Anonymous No.13861517]

>>13861449
Remember that thread yesterday? You said the same and eventually the mods deleted the thread.