/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13666012]

I have no background in metaphysics, and especially not Kant or Deluze. Will I understand any of this?

[Anonymous No.13666023]

Same as you OP. I read it like the first western cyberpunk poetry book just like a read Cioran like a comedian .

[Anonymous No.13666028]

>>13666012
Yep, quick rundown here.

[Anonymous No.13666032]

>we're losing the thread
>call in another one

[Anonymous No.13666036]

Same as you OP. I read it like the first western cyberpunk poetry book just like I read Cioran like a comedian .

[Anonymous No.13666060]

>we live in a sinociety

[Anonymous No.13666109]

>>13666012
You might not like the first half but the insane Neuromancer rants are very enjoyable if you like technology.

[Anonymous No.13666270]

need reccs for readable books on Kant that wont make me want to claw out my eyes in boredom plz

[Anonymous No.13666274]

>>13666012

[Anonymous No.13666517]

>>13666274
thank you

[Anonymous No.13666528]

>>13666012
only the fiction bits. if you can't understand kant and marx you will not get his essays.
>>13666270
pic related

[Anonymous No.13666564]

>>13666270
Malabou

[Anonymous No.13666565]

>>13666274

>The beginning lies at the end from which it drives the present

Land confirmed for crypto-Aristotelian

[Anonymous No.13666573]

>>13666012
If you like SF and still have a decent comprehension of philosophical concepts you'll have fun. I am by no means an /acc, or humanities major, and I still followed along easily enough. I just like the theory-fiction style.

[Anonymous No.13666594]

Pkd, mckenna, burroughs and gibson are better prep

[Anonymous No.13666616]

>>13666565
yes, good find actually, that's a very Landian quote

[Anonymous No.13666657]

>>13666594
gibson is awful though

[Anonymous No.13667892]

>>13666012
Bump to go fast|!

[Anonymous No.13667900]

>>13666528
Some Kantfags here need to make one of these for secondary sources.

[Anonymous No.13667910]

>>13666657
There are a hundred Neuromancer references in fang nom and half an essay dedicated to it.

[Anonymous No.13667923]

Why are there so many pseuds here shilling this garbage? No way this many read it.

[Anonymous No.13667959]

>>13667923
>too slow

[Anonymous No.13667974]

>>13667959
>shilling an outdated theory from 200 years ago with meme bullshit
>calling anyone else slow

[Anonymous No.13667981]

If fan fiction is not allowed why are there constantly acc threads up?

[Anonymous No.13667983]

>>13667923
it's too late for you

[Anonymous No.13667999]

>>13667910
Doesn't mean you should read that drivel. Gibson never touched a computer and it shows.

[Anonymous No.13668017]

>>13667983
>modern academics
>not pseud garbage
Nice try, retard.

[Anonymous No.13668029]

>>13668017
>no way people read this
>yes they do
>heh, academics are pseuds!
powerful non sequitur anon, very impressive

[Anonymous No.13668047]

ASS

[Anonymous No.13668061]

>>13668029
>not knowing what a non sequitur is
Par for the course

[Anonymous No.13668070]

Discord trannies gtfo

[Anonymous No.13668089]

>>13668061
How does "no one reads accelerationist philosophy" follow from "academics are pseuds"? The point is totally beside the issue at hand, it is the literal definition of a non sequitur you mongoloid

[Anonymous No.13668097]

>>13668089
lmao don't even bother that anon is literally too autistic, just let him shitpost. eventually he'll go off on that retarded screenshot he always posts

[Anonymous No.13668138]

>>13668089
Holy fuck you cunts are retarded.

[Anonymous No.13668147]

>>13668097
>samefagging in every thread
>not samefags shilling this shit every fucking day
Literally no one here likes you faggots.

[Anonymous No.13668162]

>>13667983
What is this supposed to prove? That you're a personality cult? Everyone knows this already.

They teach trans studies as well, doesn't mean it's actually relevant or good.

[Anonymous No.13668173]

>>13668138
>>13668147
>n-no you aren't aloud to read that stuff
literally every worthwhile book ever published has faggots like you following it; you are not doing your cause any favors. half the reason I started reading this stuff was to figure out how it manages to butthurt faggots so damn acutely

[Anonymous No.13668187]

>>13668162
>trans studies isn't relevant
literally what planet are you living on anon?
>not good
sure, how does this prove no one reads it? what point do you think you arguing against right now

[Anonymous No.13668206]

Can we not fight fast frenz?

These are the bestest threads on 4chan, and don't ruin them for op, an up and coming fast fren

op, if you like, here is some really great intros to help you become a better fast fren

https://www.reddit.com/r/askphilosophy/comments/b3kwta/what_should_i_read_to_understand_accelerationism/

https://jacobitemag.com/2017/05/25/a-quick-and-dirty-introduction-to-accelerationism/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accelerationism

https://www.reddit.com/r/sorceryofthespectacle/comments/bk2fl1/a_quick_rundown_on_accelerationism/

[Anonymous No.13668215]

>>13668173
lmao sure nick

[Anonymous No.13668216]

>>13666028
literally a snuff film

[Anonymous No.13668220]

>>13668187
>>trans studies isn't relevant
>literally what planet are you living on anon?
BASED

[Anonymous No.13668247]

>>13668173
There is a strangely potent bitterness to anti-accel-fag-posting that makes me wonder, why would anyone react to accelerationism in such a vindictive way? It's an ideology of resignation and despair, it eschews political offense or confrontation. It's like getting mad at someone for not arguing with you. Very strange.

Also imo using big words allows the brain to manipulate big ideas. The information packed into a definition does not linearly scale with the cognitive toll of using or understanding them, so having large numbers of well defined terms literally makes you smarter in a given subject and anyone who calls Land's writing pretentious inadvertently reveals themselves as stubbornly and proudly brainlet.

[Anonymous No.13668254]

ASS

[Anonymous No.13668265]

>>13668187
Jesus Christ, learn some basic logic.

No wonder you retards have to flex this pseudo shit.

[Anonymous No.13668279]

To be fair, you have to have a very high social and emotional intelligence to understand Nick Land. The neologisms are extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of technocapital most of the ideas will go over a slow reader's head. There's also Land's cyberfeminist outlook, which is deftly woven into his quantonarratives - his antihumanism draws heavily from postwave gendermarxism, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the social-intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these intelligences, to realize that they're not just profound - they say something deep about NONLIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Nick Land truly ARE idiots - of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the meaning in Land's self-exit hyperstitional meanderings, which in themselves are a cryptic reference to Marx's anti-German science of Capital-machines self-replicating into the future. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those hyperaddlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Nick Land's genius unfolds itself from the future noumena. What fools... how I pity them. And yes by the way, I DO have a "Who is NeoChina's G-d?" tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for Capital's eyes only - and even it has to demonstrate that it's within 5 social and emotional intelligence points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.

[Anonymous No.13668286]

>>13667923
>>13667974
>>13667981
>>13667999
>>13668017
>>13668070
>>13668138
>>13668162
>>13668215
>>13668254
>>13668265
>Jesus Christ
>lmao
>not relevant
>Holy fuck
>Discord trannies
>Nice try, retard
I am still eagerly awaiting the day someone on 4chan has a decent argument against accelerationism

[Anonymous No.13668288]

>>13668206
Yep, this is going into my g/acc compilation.

[Anonymous No.13668293]

>>13668247
I'm sceptical that there's truth to that

[Anonymous No.13668296]

>>13668286
As if you would even consider it, or could understand it anyway.
>>13668187
>>13668089
>>13668029
>>13667983

[Anonymous No.13668305]

>>13668247
You're just the most annoying faggots ever. Simple as that. And your transgender cult of midwit e-celebs also triggers me

[Anonymous No.13668306]

>>13668220
d-do you not think the transgender phenomena should be studied? do you not think it's of interest that people are literally cutting their dicks off? I mean, I'm pretty left, I support a lot of this stuff, but to imply there is no need to study this phenomena is literally some cuck level neoliberalism

[Anonymous No.13668313]

Should I buy it, /lit/?

[Anonymous No.13668314]

>>13668293
Why, it's literally only one person who tries to falseflag these threads.

acc is one of the most important topics on lit and one of the most important philosophies ever.

Do you really think anyone would be this hostile other than some schizo who can't even read?

[Anonymous No.13668316]

>>13668286

[Anonymous No.13668325]

>>13668305
How are we annoying? It's some autist shitting up the thread.

[Anonymous No.13668328]

>>13666012
> I have no background in metaphysics, and especially not Kant or Deluze.
This is 99% of accels, so you should be totally fine

[Anonymous No.13668337]

>>13668325
The sheer amount of pretentious adolescent contrarianism that goes on in accel circles. You deserve the vindictiveness. Go dilate, sissy

[Anonymous No.13668344]

>>13668286
It's shit.

[Anonymous No.13668348]

>>13668337
>pretentious adolescent contrarianism
>Go dilate, sissy
I hope at least some of this is self aware, then it just becomes good writing

[Anonymous No.13668356]

>>13668337
All these slowfags

yikes

[Anonymous No.13668362]

>>13668286

[Anonymous No.13668372]

>>13668348
Only like adjectives when they're made up, sissy?

[Anonymous No.13668376]

>>13668173
This

Seriously, the bullying against accelerationist members of this community is getting way out of hand, especially since accels are some of the biggest contributors, have the highest social intelligence, and are the most involved in this board. Its not just "memes" or "banter", its vicious attacking, and regardless of intentions it does demean people and hurt feelings. I can't say I'm the only accelerationist who finds it hard to take pride in his own Sinoism after having years of constant and needless attacks defaming my speed from insecure losers here. Why not bully Christians or Marxists? Do they not have much more to be ashamed of than our superior philosophy? Guenonfags and schizoposters get bullied less than us and yet we are the purest philosophy in the world.

Like when its not just banter, when a meme is repeated over and over again, repeated systematically, it eventually becomes a truth irregardless of the intentions in repeating it. And that isn't just jokes any more then, then its harmful!

Would you call an accelerationist a "tranny"(not true at all) to her face? Would you say to a kind, peaceful and scientific salt of the earth Chinese woman that they are "slower" than Western men? Would you say those words to your fellow futurist brethren? Are you starting to feel ashamed now? You fucking decelerationists?

Your destroying philosophy, your dividing capital against itself, your doing the opposite of what you claim to support when you engage in this incredibly abhorrent behaviour. So I encourage you to stop now.

[Anonymous No.13668377]

>>13668362
yang's entire campaign

[Anonymous No.13668379]

Fast frenz

Fast frenz

Nick Land

Nick Land

So fast

cause frenz

Fast frenz

So fast

Frenz fast

Fast now

Nick Land

Nick Land

Fast frenz

Speed frenz

Quick frenz

Acceling frenz

No brakes

China frenz

Future frenz

Go fast

Capital fren

Techno frenz

Quantum frenz

Noumena frenz

Nick Land

Nick Land

Neofast

Neo frenz

[Anonymous No.13668387]

>>13668379
Cringe. Accels really can't meme, they're even worse than libs

[Anonymous No.13668420]

>>13668387
Why so hostile fren

we're only trying to help people become acquantied with the most important philosophy of our time.

[Anonymous No.13668435]

>>13668420
My theory is that you people saw /lit/ mentioned by whatever twitter tranny you like and are now trying to fit in

[Anonymous No.13668464]

>>13668435
acc has nothing to do with trannies.

don't know why you're so butthurt

you're than same autist that's spamming the thread aren't you

[Anonymous No.13668503]

>>13668464
i am a recovering accel sissy. DO NOT read this garbage it's literally HRT in book form. Accelism has ruined many lives

[Anonymous No.13668512]

>>13668503
i'm better than ever

maybe you're just slow

[Anonymous No.13668523]

>>13668512
>i'm better than ever
Oh if only you knew what awaits you, proto-sissy...

[Anonymous No.13668579]

>>13668523
Capital

Same for everyone

[Anonymous No.13668587]

New thread here fast frenz

>>13668556

[Anonymous No.13668635]

>>13668587
You all on later in case we need to bake a fresh one?

[Anonymous No.13668642]

>>13668147
>>13666012
You should read deluxe cause he's amazing

[Anonymous No.13668651]

>>13668642
Never heard of him.

[Anonymous No.13668765]

I watched an interview with Nick Land on some irrelevant podcast and I was truly suprised at how someone could speak so much over the course of 2 hours, and yet say so little.

[Anonymous No.13668813]

>>13666036
Rand Land and Cioran are all mythopoetic comedians.

[Anonymous No.13670116]

Bump

[Anonymous No.13670122]

Has Land ever read Guenon?

[Anonymous No.13670148]

>>13670122

Uncertain, but he is familiar with him having mentioned the man on a few occasions.

[Anonymous No.13670159]

>>13668376

shut the fuck up and stop being such a faggot. You're promoting an anti-humanist philosophy of accelerated technocapital and you're being a little faggot crybaby about memes.

[Anonymous No.13670848]

>>13670159
retard

[Anonymous No.13670990]

>>13670159
I really doubt you guys read ALL the required reading to finally reach the point of understanding of near all philosophy to the time of Nick Land.
Many esteemed university professors wouldn't qualify since they skipped parts by not understanding them or focused to much on one area by narrowing doen on it to achieve their goal of becoming established.
Sure you could also jsut pick up Nick Land after a couple wikipedia articles, but frankly if you didn't dwell on many 19-20th century philosophers and on all the previous philosophers necessary to understand them, you probably aren't to far removed from the dude who read couple major works, school of life and then picked up Fanged Noumena.

[Anonymous No.13671014]

>>13667983
Wow, one unknown university has a pseud promoting this shit.

We're really about to make it big this time guys.
(damn, even capture thinks you guys are faggots)

[Anonymous No.13671058]

>>13670122

[Anonymous No.13671093]

>>13668765
You don't understand what was being said so you claim nothing was said.

[Anonymous No.13671115]

>>13671093
These idiots just can't into neologisms.

Gotta go fast or you'll never make it.

[Anonymous No.13671166]

>>13668017
>Peterson and Zizek
>serious academics and not pop philosophers for 15 year old boys

[Anonymous No.13671191]

>>13671166
>heh memes have to be literal
>and ill call zizek a pseud while waiting for him to accept my pseud ideology
You cunts literally have zero awareness. KYS

[Anonymous No.13671194]

>>13671166
>can't parse the meme
All accfags really do have autism.>>13668061

[Anonymous No.13671267]

Yes, the early essays anyway, but you will not be able to engage with them meaningfully on their own terms without that background. If you are happy to just catch the "gist" of it then you can just start reading, but your understanding will be superficial.

[Anonymous No.13671269]

>>13671267
>gabbidull zo bad id gud
Where's the depth?

[Anonymous No.13671300]

>>13671269
Meme

[Anonymous No.13671325]

He said not even half of what Terrence McKenna did.

[Anonymous No.13671363]

>X zo bad id gud
This is 99% of accel drivel. These people are just contrarian kids

[Anonymous No.13671369]

/lit/ is a shit show

[Anonymous No.13671377]

>>13671369
we're getting raided by discord/twitter accel trannies, do something about it

[Anonymous No.13671780]

>>13666012
What the fuck is this thing about?

[Anonymous No.13671897]

>>13670159
How many times are dumb dumbs gonna fall for this bait?

[Anonymous No.13671900]

>>13668503
Sounds like the problem is how gullible you are, not whatever the book is about. I bet you flip-flop all the time depending on whatever you’re reading at the present moment

[Anonymous No.13671919]

>>13671780
earth is captured by a technocapital singularity etc

[Anonymous No.13671943]

>>13671919
…. huh?

[Anonymous No.13672057]

>>13671943
The story goes like this...

[Anonymous No.13672222]

>>13671363
Based and geneticlunacy-pilled.

[Anonymous No.13672291]

>>13668464
>acc has nothing to do with trannies.
Transexualism is a subset of transhumanism.
Accelerationism has to do with transhumanism because it seeks to achieve technological singularity, human-machine merge, human engineering such as design babies, terraforming and colonizing other planets and a long etcetera. Transhumanism comes in a lot of strains and flavors x/acc.

Transexualism is not the whole thing, but is part of. For example, maybe Death Stranding is the first true transhuman themed videogame and covers other topics such as enviromental protection and design babies and none of any of transexual topics because the whole thing, as a concept and historical phenomenon is more, much much more, but some people want so much attention over the internet that in the course of 5 or 8 years they weaponized entire infraestructures in order to give the fake impression about what all is actually about.

Beware of the hyperspace/cyberspace demons.

[Anonymous No.13672352]

>>13672291
But this is why r/acc split off from d/acc.

[Anonymous No.13672359]

>>13672291
Acceleration is only interested in transsexuals if they are selected for by capital. I don't see much evidence for that personally.

[Anonymous No.13672842]

>>13672291
>Transexualism is a subset of transhumanism
no, it's not lmao

[Anonymous No.13672868]

>>13672842
It sort of is. Back in the days we said humans are born either man or woman; turning one to another would have been seen about as unlikely as replacing our bodyparts with throught-controlled machines.

[Anonymous No.13672906]

>>13672868
>replacing our bodyparts with throught-controlled machines
what the fuck are you on about, transhumanists wanted to put magnets in their fingers, look into the transhumanist movement it is not cool or interesting or radical, they are boring tech libs and about as far from acc as you can get. transsexualism literally has nothing to do with either

[Anonymous No.13672928]

>>13672842
>changing human biochemistry with medical technology isn't transhumanism

It's like you don't know what words mean.

[Anonymous No.13672950]

>>13672928
>changing human biochemistry with medical technology
dude lol I took an asprin my biochemistry man it's been changed, I'm a cyborg

[Anonymous No.13672976]

>>13672950
YES. We have been cyborgs all along. Technology is an extension of our natural faculties. You get it nao anon.

[Anonymous No.13672986]

>>13672950
If the aspirin grew you tits, smoothed your skin, altered your hormones, changed your hair growth, and reduced your muscle mass, then yeah, kinda'.

I suppose that becomes an argument about how much change is necessary for something to become transhuman vs. just biologically active.

Would a series of nanomachines inside the body releasing chemicals at controlled intervals be considered transhuman? Maybe depending on the chemicals? Dosage? Frequency? Or is the mere existence of that system inside the body enough for it to count?

[Anonymous No.13672995]

>>13672950
>Compare a highly complex surgical, psychological and biochemical process by taking a pill.

If we follow your line, smoking grass would also be transhuman.

[Anonymous No.13673067]

>>13672976
okay everyone has been a transhumanist for centuries then, seems like you turned it into an absolutely useless definition
>>13672986
>b-but if it grows tits
okay then every body builder is a transhumanist, and really anyone on any sort of growth supplement/hormone/steroid, so I guess people with real strong acne prescriptions are transhumanist too
>>13672995
yes, but it's not my line, it's the line set out by the other anon

[Anonymous No.13673075]

>>13672842
Wrong, Nick Land developed out of cyberfeminism.

[Anonymous No.13673090]

>>13673067
I mean, how would you define the term?
How much modification is necessary? What are the key features of transhumanism as you see it?

[Anonymous No.13673126]

>>13673090
transhumanism seeks to overcome human capabilities through technology, turning a penis into a vagina doesn't overcome any human capability, it just alters those human capabilities (superficially) from "male" to "female". if you, for instance, wanted to install a fuckhole into your chest, now you are overcoming some human capabilities, I would call that transhumanism

[Anonymous No.13673135]

>>13673075
do you think Nick Land is a transhumanist or a transexual?

[Anonymous No.13673195]

>>13673126
So turning a dick into a vagina doesn't count, but turning a diaphragm into a vagina does?

I think you're cutting hairs here a bit, anon. Neither of those things are possible without medical technology and expertise. Both change the biology of the human they're performed on in a certain way.

I mean to your own point, would you consider something like a colostomy bag to be somewhat transhumanist? Using technology to modify digestion?

Would pacemakers count? Tech that restarts a heart that has stopped beating, or keeps it beating in a controlled way?

If your definition is-

>overcome human capabilities through technology

Then don't all of these things count if a human body can't do them naturally?

[Anonymous No.13673244]

[Anonymous No.13673255]

>>13673135
wut

[Anonymous No.13673263]

>>13673244

[Anonymous No.13673300]

>>13673195
>would you consider something like a colostomy bag to be somewhat transhumanist?
very primitive but probably. I don't know enough about pacemakers desu so I don't want to give a technical answer there.
>don't all of these things count if a human body can't do them naturally?
I think it's more involved than that. if you can't walk, so you use crutches, no. If you can't walk, so we build you an exoskeleton that bypasses your nervous system, yes. here is the thing, if we could build artificial wombs/testicles and install them, I would call a post op a transhuman, but as long as it's just superficial surgery, it's no more transhumanist than a nose job

[Anonymous No.13673424]

>>13673300
>if you can't walk, so you use crutches, no. If you can't walk, so we build you an exoskeleton that bypasses your nervous system, yes.

Wood crutches = not transhumanist
Metal crutches that run on batteries = transhumanist

:P

I'm kinda' giving you shit over this one because I don't think the distinction really fits anyone's definition of transhuman (maybe I'm wrong though). Both are allowing the human to do something they wouldn't otherwise be capable of doing, this is true, but neither are really internal to the human either - they are just technology/tools to aid movement. We're not all transhuman when we're driving in a car because we wouldn't be able to go that fast without an engine and wheels, we're not transhuman when we fly in a plane because we wouldn't otherwise be able to fly - I don't think this fits really with what most people think of transhuman.

I'm not really saying I have a better definition either though. I'd agree with your point that-

> if we could build artificial wombs/testicles and install them, I would call a post op a transhuman

because that's using that tech to change the human's biology/capacity.

Maybe that's the difference? The innate biological tie-in of tech with what we conceive as generally human?

Maybe this is a weird example, but would a surgery/procedure/medicine that produced webbed toes/fingers in humans be transhuman? I think so. It aids movement like the original crutches example, but it's biological - whereas just putting on rubber flippers is definitely not biological, but does help movement greatly in water - akin to the earlier crutches example.

Likewise, if we were capable of, I guess going off your last example, but instead of shortening the nose, elongating the nose to an extreme degree, if that were to heighten our ability to smell things, would that be transhumanist? I'm tempted to say so. It's tech that produced a result that wasn't otherwise possible with existing human biology and it expanded that biology's capacity to do whatever it does.

We don't tend to think of a nose job as transhumanist because the result/cause is purely aesthetic/cosmetic. However, let's not overlook the fact that this aesthetic improvement might allow us to attract new/better mates, might it not? If botox helps you stay looking young and it keeps you getting sex from dudes into your 50s, or on the man-side, if implanting hair from other parts of your body on your head's hairline keeps you in the dating game, we can see how these things might have real social consequences and increase/alter our biological capacity, even if they're only surface-deep. We might contrast this with just wearing makeup, or just dyeing your hair, which we probably wouldn't call transhumanist.

Idk, it's tricky right? It feels like it's coming down to a distinction on how much change actually happens, but maybe I'm taking it somewhere weird. Interested to hear what you think.

[Anonymous No.13673505]

>>13673424
>Metal crutches that run on batteries
I think the fact it's installed into your nervous system is the important part, not the fact it has batteries lol
> I don't think the distinction really fits anyone's definition of transhuman
check out some of the transhumanist organizations like Humanity+; their motto is literally "don't limit your challenges, challenge your limits" lmao. yes, the webbed toes sounds like an example of old school transhumanism; remember transhumanist projects used to be things like installing a small magnet in the tip of your finger. I don't think the nose example follows because I'm pretty sure that's not how olfactory sense works. I get your point, that the line isn't always clear, and I agree with you on that, but it seems to me like no one was calling the chick with a boob job transhuman, but if a guy gets a boob job, changes the gender on their drivers license, suddenly they are transhuman? if a dude gets his chopped apart and lengthened, not a transhuman; get it chopped apart and put inside out, transhuman. it seems like a totally artificial catagory.

[Anonymous No.13673511]

>>13666012
I promise you, with a background of any kind you will not understand anything Nick Land has to say.

[Anonymous No.13673512]

>>13673505
>if a dude gets his dick* chopped apart

[Anonymous No.13673623]

>>13673511
Not that difficult. see >>13666028

[Anonymous No.13673628]

>>13673505
I mean, it's not really an EXOskeleton if it's installed INSIDE your body/nervous system :^)

Also you specified that it bypasses the nervous system before, not augmenting it, but this is beside the point.

I think you're still dodging a bit of what it is to be trans in the modern context (i.e. blocking testosterone, adding estrogen) and focusing exclusively on the external surgery/surgeries.

I think the dick example is actually a good one here though, because I think you're right, we wouldn't tend to think of a man having a dick extension surgery as transhuman - it'd be more like a corrective surgery. We might consider it if, say, he was born with an unusable microdick which doctors then modified into a normal-sized dude-cock, but maybe not - it'd still be corrective.

However, what do you think about a FtM trans man having a penis constructed and attached to their body? These are usually generated by grafting flesh from the thigh or forearm, and apparently they even have a system where the person is able to make it hard with an interesting pump-system set up in the balls. I believe they even transplant some of the existing vaginal tissue onto the new penis and are able to run the nerves back to the rest of the body. This is somewhat similar to the MtF surgery - you're using what's there as well as some other tissue from the patient, but you're essentially constructing a new organ out of it, not merely inverting what was already there.

I think we agree that it's a pretty murky area trying to classify these things, but do you think this operation is any different than the MtF one in terms of its transhuman element, or is it about the same? Does the built-in ball-pump attached to the body change the equation, or not?

[Anonymous No.13673666]

>>13673424
Perhaps transhumanism is directly related to our identity, beyond the biological. Any physical or brain change generates a feedback loop that affects our own mental projection.

A month ago I had the opportunity to ask about transhumanism to a person with physical disabilities from birth. She pointed out to me that she would not undergo any procedure that would help her transcend her body even at the cost of quality of life as long as there was no human social change. Only with a strong collective moral basis, in her opinion, any technology is valid. Before developing the human, this evolution is nothing more than a farce, in his words.

That resonates a lot with bodybuilders. There is a tendency towards the transformation of the body, but if a solid human base, many of them have destroyed themselves. Their deaths are the proof of the previous point.

[Anonymous No.13673697]

>>13673628
you can have an exoskeleton that installs into your nervous system, I don't know where you got the idea of it being put in your body. are these supposed to be jokes or strawmen? I can't tell. the ball pump system could be considered that, I'll give it to you, but men have lost their dicks and had a similar procedure, so it's not exactly exclusive to ftm.

[Anonymous No.13673835]

>>13673697
Ah, the exoskeleton bit came from my confusion when you originally said that the exoskeleton would bypass the nervous system entirely. I figured you meant an entirely external piece of equipment that relied on exterior tissue movement like some modern prosthetics do. But yeah, if it's connected straight to your nervous system I see more clearly what you're getting at.

>ball pump system could be considered that, I'll give it to you, but men have lost their dicks and had a similar procedure, so it's not exactly exclusive to ftm.

I think it still counts, doesn't it? Does the reason for the surgery matter if the results are the same? It isn't about whether or not that makes them transgender, it's about whether the ability to generate a new organ that wasn't there before and attach it to the body constitutes a transhuman activity.

Similar to the exoskeleton example - if it's new hardware hardwired into the nervous system is seems to have an innately transhuman quality to it. The neodick and the neovagina are both similar in this regard - we might then just end up quibbling over how much non-organic tech is required to make it so (neodick yes because rubber ball pump, neovag no because no other plastic is required), but I expect that definition would end up being pretty subjective.

[Anonymous No.13673852]

>>13668313
>it's real

[Anonymous No.13673901]

>>13673666
Diabolic trips checked.

>Only with a strong collective moral basis, in her opinion, any technology is valid. Before developing the human, this evolution is nothing more than a farce

This seems to be saying that humanity must first evolve itself organically (morally, coming to terms with itself as mere organic matter) before it can truly expand itself with technology.

I think it's fair to say that this would have been the ideal path for the human subject, though I don't think it's where we're ultimately heading. We'll likely see fighting exosuits wired directly into the spinal column of their pilots in bloodsport combat live this SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY before we'll have a humanity capable of this level of abstract and future-oriented thinking.

[Anonymous No.13673917]

>>13673835
>you originally said that the exoskeleton would bypass the nervous system entirely
I never used the word entirely, again, it makes it sound like bad faith making these strawmen but I think you aren't reading carefully. the poin is you don't need to use your leg muscles to walk, it bypasses that section of the nervous system [i.e. your fucked up legs] and sends the neurological signals to the machine instead (brain machine interface). they already have these technologies in development, you don't even need to speculate on what they would be like lol
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/11/181106121415.htm
>I think it still counts, doesn't it?
yeah, I said it does, my point was that the procedure was created before trans men were really a thing, and that the procedure itself is what matters, not whether you are trans. you basically made my argument. I don't see vaginoplasty as transhuman though.

[Anonymous No.13673935]

>>13668313
>>13673852
>most of the reviews are from Land and the pseuds here constantly shilling these threads
Who could've guessed?

[Anonymous No.13673950]

>>13673935
>most of the reviews are from Land
Land doesn't even like Fanged Noumena, he has rejected his early work

[Anonymous No.13673968]

>>13668313
I have the Spanish translation. The cyberpunk stuff is very strong and I love it. Is the only fragments that I'm really interesting in and the only reason I bought it.

[Anonymous No.13674128]

>>13666274
I don't understand, how can we reason there are transcendental categories outside our understanding if they are outside? Theres no reason to think that.

[Anonymous No.13674144]

>>13673917
You just said it bypasses the nervous system, but now you say it uses the nervous system - make up your mind!

-I'm being silly with you on this point because I don't think it matters now that we both understand that you meant that the exoskeleton does in-fact use the nervous system. That's the part that we both care about. That brain>nerves>machine>action. Right? Okay, good.

The section of the above that creates the transhuman element as I think we both understand it in this context is the machine part.

What we now have to discern is what, in this context, qualifies as a machine.

You said before that a womb, grown artificially and implanted into a person, would be transhumanist, right? Even if it were implanted into a woman who, say, was born without one, or had her original one removed? As you said-

>the procedure itself is what matters

If that's the case, biological machinery qualifies as machinery in this context.

Here is where I think our distinctions get murky. We both seem to agree that a transman (or a regular man) with an artificial penis grafted to their body is transhuman in nature, but you make the distinction here that the penis must include the ball-pump system for this to count, is that correct? Whereas the transwoman, who has a similar sort of graft or recreation via surgery, is not transhuman in nature because she lacks the little rubber pump that would, idk, swell up her pussy?
-This is where I think your distinction breaks down, or where it needs to be further fleshed out. The external 'technology' (the rubber pump - i.e. not being entirely biological) wasn't required in the womb example, but it is required in the neovagina example. Same for the webbed toes and fingers. No external tech required, but seems innately transhuman.

So is it that the neovagina isn't transhuman in nature because it doesn't necessarily require outside technology being inserted into the body to make it work? (i.e. that it's /just/ skin cut and folded in very specific ways and fused back together, combined with technology that allows the surgeons to re-knit the nerve tissue back to the nervous system) If that is indeed your point of view, does the technology that allows this surgery to happen in the first place count at all towards what we might call its transhumanist rating/score, or does the end result have to be internal to the subject?

Lastly, does the notion that a society could advance to the point where it's human population is free to determine which sex/gender characteristics they want not have a transhumanist bent to it? A choice that didn't exist before now does for the human subject with regard to their physical, mental, and social personage. It could be that, as you said before, this becomes and artificial distinction - that the era we live in is so fraught with technology/medicine and personal choice that to be transhuman in whatever traditional sense is simply so normal that it has lost distinctive meaning.

[Anonymous No.13674148]

>>13674128
read Kant or watch this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzKKEZ7X9rY

[Anonymous No.13674150]

>>13674128
Welcome to the noumena, bitch!

Now read Kant.

[Anonymous No.13674152]

>>13673950
He's still a huckster.

[Anonymous No.13674197]

>>13674144
>You just said it bypasses the nervous system, but now you say it uses the nervous system - make up your mind!
yes, it bypasses the nervous system, not the WHOLE nervous system, not the ENTIRE nervous system. have I been giving you too much credit here? are you being willfully obtuse here? this isn't being "silly"; it's reading something into someone else's argument, then when they correct you, you double down on your misreading lmao.
>You said before that a womb, grown artificially and implanted into a person, would be transhumanist, right?
never said anything about wombs being grown artificially; try and only respond to the points I make, it's exhausting to have to jump on new points you pull out of nowhere every post.
>If that's the case, biological machinery qualifies as machinery in this context.
again, this is your point, not mine, but I'm sure if you wanted to make a decent argument for that we could discuss it. the rest of the argument is dependent on that hanging premise, so idk what to say from here on it lol. just read more stuff on transhumanism, Ray Kurzweil is a good source

[Anonymous No.13674260]

>>13674197
>yes, it bypasses the nervous system, not the WHOLE nervous system, not the ENTIRE nervous system. have I been giving you too much credit here? are you being willfully obtuse here? this isn't being "silly"; it's reading something into someone else's argument, then when they correct you, you double down on your misreading lmao.

I'm literally just trolling you about this repeatedly for not being clear the first time dude, calm your tits.

>never said anything about wombs being grown artificially; try and only respond to the points I make, it's exhausting to have to jump on new points you pull out of nowhere every post.

I was replying to >>13673300 in that regard - maybe that wasn't you - it's kinda' impossible to tell, but it seems like that was you. Let me grab the relevant bit-

>if we could build artificial wombs/testicles and install them, I would call a post op a transhuman

That's what I was referring to. Maybe that wasn't you, but do try to keep up with the conversation.

The last bit is just silly here. If you don't think bioengineering can be considered tranhumanism you don't know what transhumanism is.

>Ray Kurzweil is a good source

He fucking got me XD

[Anonymous No.13674290]

>>13674260
>build
>grow
this is why I said you need to respond to the points I make, building an artificial womb is not the same thing as growing a biological womb, you can completely conflated these things, and even quote the passage you misread lmao. I am actually baffled by this. if you don't think Kurzweil is a good source for transhumanist ideology you must be underage, he's been shilling this shit since the 90's

[Anonymous No.13674326]

Would you plug yourself into a matrix-like cyberspace if you could fuck Yorha 2b?

[Anonymous No.13674392]

>>13674290
Did you not also say-

>the procedure itself is what matters

This seems to run counter to what you're saying now-

>building an artificial womb is not the same thing as growing a biological womb

But either of these might be besides the point. Which is it is more important in your mind? The end result for the subject and society, or the terminology and technology used to build/grow that result? It seems like you're quibbling about definitions instead of looking at the larger societal picture of what transhumanism is. If a concept like gender, of man or woman or whatever, breaks under the weight of a society in which these things are no longer relevant because of technology, is that not transhumanism in action?

My advice would be don't get caught up on pointless distinctions (neodick = transhuman, neovagina = just plastic surgery). Look at what it means for those people and for the world around them in this context (transhumanism obviously extends far beyond the realm of just medicine and surgery, but this is 4chan so obviously we're talking about girldick). Extrapolate these ideas a bit, and see where you end up. That's the transhumanism you should be thinking about (and I've read enough Kurzweil to know that he'd agree).

[Anonymous No.13674472]

>>13674392
the procedure of building and installing an artificial womb and the procedure of growing an artificial a womb from human tissue and transplanting it are completely different, are you daft? in fact the whole example supports my point. how do you still not understand this? I can't go back to the beginning, this argument was way too painful to repeat. read literally anything on transhumanism lmao, and maybe syllogisms for dummies (I highly question you're well read on Kurzweil from the fact you don't seem to know what transhumanism is)
>If a concept like gender, of man or woman or whatever, breaks under the weight of a society in which these things are no longer relevant because of technology, is that not transhumanism in action?
no, literally it's not. show me where you get a definition for transhumanism that says "concepts breaking under the weight of a technological society", I would be interested to see who is making this argument.

[Anonymous No.13674518]

>>13674472

[Anonymous No.13674543]

>>13674518
wait, you must be confused anon, surpassing human limitations by means of technology is exactly the definition I was using, remember? my exact words were
>transhumanism seeks to overcome human capabilities through technology
see >>13673126
I asked you to find a definition that supports your claim, that it relates to the breaking of concepts under a technological society

[Anonymous No.13674557]

>>13674543
It sounds like you have a few mental limitations to evolve beyond :P

[Anonymous No.13674583]

>>13674557
oh, was that one of your "jokes" where you misread something? "human" includes both mental and physical, if that was a joke about mental limitations. again, if you read transhumanists, when they talk about overcoming mental limitations they are talking about literal fucking brain implants, not "woah like society is changing the way we think about gender"

[Anonymous No.13674629]

>>13674557
>>13674518
does this all just come down to the fact they both use the prefix "trans"? is this where this whole thing is getting hung up on? you need to fit trans in with tranhumanism? I would rather spend time with someone who's trans over a dirty transhumanist any fucking day of the week, trust me, keep that cancer away from trans people

[Anonymous No.13675315]

>>13674326
where does the impulse to fuck come from ?

[Anonymous No.13675998]

>>13675315
There's the freud model that dominates the academic world, but maybe, just as the origin of life, his value lives in his ontological and unabstractable mistery.

One thing is sure, the tecno capital singularity is going to milk that dopamine drops with bioware like the big mac economy during USA economic golden age.

[Anonymous No.13676031]

>>13675315
There's the freud model that dominates the academic world, but maybe, just as the origin of life, his value lives in his ontological and unabstractable mistery.

One thing is sure, the tecno capital singularity is going to milk dopamine drops with bioware like the McDonalds sponsorship to the USA team in the 1984 olympics, but in reverse. Everytime USA economy goes up, they are going to send a sex-bot to rape you in to your house you are going to cum all over the carpet while tv is on because you were watching Star Wars Episode XXXIII on Disney Plus.

[Anonymous No.13676874]

ASS