Reading fiction is escapism. It is no better than playing videogames. And no, trying to get philosophical ideas from Dostoevsky or CS Lewis just proves you need sugarcoating to swallow philosophy.

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Anonymous Sat Jul 20 04:45:34 2019 No.13497796 [Reply] [Original]

Reading fiction is escapism.
It is no better than playing videogames.
And no, trying to get philosophical ideas from Dostoevsky or CS Lewis just proves you need sugarcoating to swallow philosophy.

Anonymous Sat Jul 20 04:52:00 2019 No.13497805

>>13497796
Everything we do is a cope.

None of the knowledge you've accumulated over the years has changed you in any meaningful way. It's a comforter, something you cling to when times are dark that makes you feel like you're not in freefall. No. You have a plan. You got ideas, you're on your way somewhere. You're different.

...right?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 04:52:33 2019 No.13497806 the virgin self-improver fears the allegory.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 05:00:39 2019 No.13497815 Don't care, I read both faggot

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 05:03:41 2019 No.13497819 >>13497796 virgin fiction/nonfic only chad OMNI reader

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 05:17:43 2019 No.13497849 Stories are good and natural. Every single culture has a story-telling tradition, it is clearly necessary. If every civilization and tribe does something, it's probably a good thing. Even the Puritans had the Bible.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 05:20:56 2019 No.13497853 >>13497796 I only read fiction that's treated as truth suchs as epics and religious texts

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 05:44:39 2019 No.13497891 >>13497796 you get more insight from lotr than sean harris. shut the fuck up

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 05:56:57 2019 No.13497906 >>13497796 why would chad waste his time with reading mein kampf?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 06:08:58 2019 No.13497927 >>13497796 anything other than spreading your seed or increasing power/wealth is escapism if we're being honest.

Anonymous Sat Jul 20 06:36:37 2019 No.13497981 [DELETED]

>>13497927
no truth is theres no such thing as escalism. You can only call something a cope if you have other more dire priorities like work or family matters which you choose to focus less on. Other than that, if we look at it a broader way everything we do (includes getting rich) is basically an attempt to stride from pain and misery

Anonymous Sat Jul 20 06:47:22 2019 No.13497995

>>13497796
>And no, trying to get philosophical ideas from Dostoevsky or CS Lewis just proves you need sugarcoating to swallow philosophy.
No, both of them have unique philosophy.
Otherwise, I agree with your post. But escapism is sometimes psychologically necessary, and I am not sure all art is simply escapism. Even video games have artistic merit worthy of aesthetic judgement/contemplation alone.
But yes, non-fiction is far more valuable.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 06:49:08 2019 No.13498002 >>13497927 >or increasing power/wealth only if it is toward the goal of spreading your seed

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 06:50:08 2019 No.13498005 >>13497891 lol >>13497906 mein kampf is historically important

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 06:52:53 2019 No.13498013 File: 73 KB, 501x600, the reader 1936.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13497796 >falling for the false fiction/nonfiction dichotomy

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 07:02:58 2019 No.13498040 >>13497796 It's impossible to develop a patrician mind without reading fiction: all significant non-fiction writers and philosophers of past few centuries read fiction extensively. Stay retarded.

Anonymous Sat Jul 20 07:07:59 2019 No.13498050

>>13497796
Not really. Sure, the video game player gets enjoyment, as does the reader, but the quality of that enjoyment, the source of that enjoyment, and all other other outcomes of the behavior are different. Even a good video game still requires the player to take many repetitive and mundane actions; Fable, for example, involved hours and hours of walking, talking to unimportant characters, messing up, deliberating over items, etc. The enjoyment comes from the satisfaction of deciding between illusory choices. What's particularly interesting is that with a video game, each physical action is varied--you press different sequences of buttons, move the mouse or control stick differently, are constantly have to react to new situations, and yet the result is, when boiled down, always the same. There are only two essential video game types--screen calibration (you control objects to try and make them align properly amid changing object locations), controller calibration (you try to match the timing of an input on the controller to the timing of a stimulus on the screen). If it doesn't involve at least one of those actions, then it has no reason to be a video game, and the digital media is used only out of convenience of delivery. Every other apparent difference in game play is a matter of style. Any story that would be told in a video game can be told without the game, and there is no story which is made more meaningful by adding in the calibration of digital hardware. In contrast, every book is operated the same way; the action never changes, and it is never a test of physical skill. Because the behavior is so rote, it disappears from the activity entirely, and all that remains is the experience of the content. The vicarious nature of each medium makes them appear similar, except with a reading, the vicarious experience is the sole function and remains uninterupted, while a video game only functions if the mechanical interaction shares at least some of the purpose, which itself interrupts and weakens whatever other function it might have. Video games are no different than pinball. Games themselves, of course, can be very enjoyable ways of passing the time. But the one thing that makes video games comparable to reading is the very thing which makes them weaker than traditional games--the story. Games are worthwhile because they directly engage the strategic processing of our brain in an abstract enough way that it improves our strategic sense in the rest of our life also, not only the game. A sport does this less, but at least contributes to physical fitness also. The graphics and story of a video game are superfluous to the one element that is redeeming. Video games, objectively, are an inferior medium. They offer less strategy and less meaningful experience for the time spent. Maybe people take enjoyment out of it, but it is inferior and without any other benefit. Video games offer negative value over replacement.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 07:13:27 2019 No.13498063 It's all fiction my dude

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 07:15:45 2019 No.13498069 >>13498050 >Fable >a good video game

Anonymous Sat Jul 20 08:40:47 2019 No.13498334

>>13498050
Muscle memory is not a practical skill, it's useless outside of that specific video game. Playing Hungry Hungry Hippos over and over makes you good at smashing a button like a retard, but that's literally it.
Reading on the other hand is actively exercising and expanding your brain function, and the flow on benefits from that, in all intellectual persuits, are immense.
Being eloquent and educated is far more beneficial in everyday life than being able to play with a super specific toy really well. Further, being able to discuss literature is far more mature and endearing than "discussing" Super Smash Bros 69 not to mention a lot less likely to make everyone think you're a disgusting immature manchild.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 09:44:47 2019 No.13498562 >>13498069 Play the remastered version. It's actually really fun.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 09:49:41 2019 No.13498579 >>13497796 >dawkins >darwin >hitler almost got me you filthy evolution cuck chad reads guenon

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 09:51:35 2019 No.13498592 File: 18 KB, 480x480, 1563510441861.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13498579 Even if you don't believe in evolution you still ought to read some works on it to get an understanding.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 10:05:22 2019 No.13498634 >>13498592 >>13498579 How blind and ignorant do you have to be to not believe in evolution? What fictions are stopping you from it? I bet it's some religious creationism

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 10:10:19 2019 No.13498652 >>13497796 I do read technical books, even in my free time but I also read fiction to relax and for entertainment, not sure what your point is, op? One cant just read and study 100% of the time, without taking a break.

>>	Wittgenstein Sat Jul 20 10:29:08 2019 No.13498712 File: 221 KB, 680x680, 023 (1).png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13498050 Why does this sound like it was written by Kierkegaard lmao?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 16:23:41 2019 No.13500136 >>13497796 Imagine striving to make yourself more useful to your rulers and being proud of it. I spit on utility, only the useless is beautiful and only the beautiful is good.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 17:20:15 2019 No.13500378 >>13497796 >"fiction" as a monolithic block >"battle towards success"

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 17:20:38 2019 No.13500381 >>13498005 dont lol me bitch

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 17:23:08 2019 No.13500392 File: 62 KB, 480x597, 1563657788100.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13500381

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 17:26:50 2019 No.13500413 File: 47 KB, 500x385, 3945389-2631940157-q5eYo.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13500392

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 17:35:26 2019 No.13500444 >>13497805 https://vocaroo.com/i/s0rWylFF1286

Anonymous Sat Jul 20 17:55:00 2019 No.13500531
File: 519 KB, 1920x1201, 1554948615596.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13497796
ive been trying to break into nonfiction, can someone reccomend me a great non-fiction? i wan interested in biographies and read Life of Alexander from Plutarch and thought it was decent, but not exactly what i was looking for. any standouts in the nonfiction genres worth looking into?

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 17:57:13 2019 No.13500545 >>13497796 >Plato >non-fiction

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 18:02:04 2019 No.13500568 >>13500444 cope

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 18:03:13 2019 No.13500573 >>13500444 where is this accent from

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 18:22:59 2019 No.13500661 >>13500444 Kek

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 19:26:12 2019 No.13500958 I have a hard time believing anything in Dostoevsky is "sugarcoating"

Anonymous Sat Jul 20 19:35:35 2019 No.13500991

>>13498334
Not true. It improves hand-eye coordination and reaction time overall. Also, depending on the game, the skills can be applicable more broadly like in planning or juggling different conceptual objects. Games with economy and history will also force you to learn to gitgud. Many people can't get into many strategy games because of the investment it takes to not be shit. Even mere 'muscle memory' as you say can be applied to having greater finesse in other activities, although it's mostly useless. I would say most games are useless and that we should be designing games that are neither 'educational' and therefore offputting nor purely focused on cheap fun. I think it's a great medium for learning and developing skills because it engages the player and conditions them. Even with learning plain information, take an RPG with its various stories and locations and characters for example. It's easy to remember because a game engages you and an RPG makes good use of your spatial memory and awareness, much like a memory palace. If it's too intent on being educational then it won't be engaging and fun, which means it won't be educational.

When I did military service I found I was a natural marksman, initially even without training just doing it by feeling, I was oddly good. I believe this is from playing 1st person shooters with gunplay that offers some realism. How else would I have the instincts to shoot longrange.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 19:41:17 2019 No.13501016 >>13498634 Well, it’s just not observable and never will be. Unlike physics and astrophysics.

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 19:42:48 2019 No.13501021 >>13498050 Based

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 19:43:57 2019 No.13501028 >>13500444 >https://vocaroo.com/i/s0rWylFF1286 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgkZIXQS1xA

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 19:44:12 2019 No.13501029 File: 170 KB, 360x346, tenor.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13500444 >https://vocaroo.com/i/s0rWylFF1286

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 19:51:32 2019 No.13501047 File: 401 KB, 1377x843, Screenshot_20190629-173308.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13497796 Imagine being this unsophisticated. I feel sorry for you OP

>>	CrossBot Sat Jul 20 20:04:40 2019 No.13501102 File: 19 KB, 480x360, landpost.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] > Laughs in theory fiction

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 20:26:32 2019 No.13501178 >Professor of Engineering >Professor of Literature Guess which one has green hair and thinks we can solve our energy problems by harnessing peoples "chakras"

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 23:48:11 2019 No.13501875 >>13497819 this. based

>>	Anonymous Sat Jul 20 23:50:41 2019 No.13501884 >>13500444 ily

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 00:13:57 2019 No.13501943 >>13381540

Anonymous Sun Jul 21 00:39:52 2019 No.13502031

Lol reading philosophy is escapism

Imagine being so incapable of critical and self-evaluating thought that you have to default to other people's subjective judgment to parse any sense out of your life lmao.

I'm not saying I believe that, but this thread is a pretty shit bait.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 00:46:04 2019 No.13502055 >>13498050 I am pretty sure you are bias when you say books are objectively better than videogames since you imply all books and videogames in existance. Also Fable.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 00:54:12 2019 No.13502079 >>13497796 Hmmm. I am high. But the meme convinced me. I oughta read less dune and more essays to have useful information.

Anonymous Sun Jul 21 00:55:07 2019 No.13502085

>>13497796
Fiction and non-fiction are different means to the same end. Fiction creates a paradigm in which someone can discover something, while nonfiction lays it out plainly. Each has its own purpose/pragmatic strengths over the other, and caters to its own group as necessary. Truly, it's a matter of taste.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 08:58:22 2019 No.13503239 imagine gatekeeping half of literature

Anonymous Sun Jul 21 09:03:35 2019 No.13503258

If you were truly educated by non fiction, you would have read by now that art is a necessary part of what makes us human and many of the great philosophers and thinkers felt that without fiction to represent the human condition, then we are no better than apes.

With that said, the majority of fiction is truly low IQ and its good writers can basically be counted on one hand.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 09:22:22 2019 No.13503318 >>13497927 >increasing power/wealth Faggot materialist detected

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 09:32:33 2019 No.13503353 >>13500444 Can you stop trying to become a celebrity, you sound like a fucking faggot

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 09:36:04 2019 No.13503375 >>13500444 based and redpilled

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 09:54:09 2019 No.13503437 >>13500573 he's all over the place. Pretty sure the jersey/new york accent is fake. He might even be foreign

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 09:58:36 2019 No.13503461 >>13497796 >Plutarch's Lives >non-fiction half of that fucking book was either based completely on urban legend or made up on the spot to make the individuals concerned sound more interesting

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 10:02:48 2019 No.13503482 >>13500444 BASED

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 10:04:21 2019 No.13503490 >>13503318 >i don't need stuff as far as i can hang out at the pool in my parents' mansion champagne socialist detected

Anonymous Sun Jul 21 10:07:39 2019 No.13503503

Literary fiction = psychologically rich, helps you model others and deal with interpersonal conflict
Speculative fiction = expands your moral horizons
Both = train you to imagine that you might be morally suspect

In these ways reading fiction makes you a better person. Obviously you will also become more "well-read" i.e. culturally familiar and expressive

Anonymous Sun Jul 21 10:12:36 2019 No.13503520

>>13501016
Superbugs are an observable phenomenon that could only occur if there was an evolutionary mechanism that allowed them to develop a genome which was resistant to vaccines. Without natural selection (and our feeble attempts to constrain it) they simply couldn’t exist.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 10:35:06 2019 No.13503592 >>13503490 Probably as far off the mark as you could be

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 10:50:45 2019 No.13503655 >>13500444 Based

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 12:32:13 2019 No.13504047 >>13498050 how would you compare film to literature in terms of medium? Surely film is more engaging than a book (generally speaking) and so the vicarious experience is enhanced as compared to a book.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 12:53:19 2019 No.13504167 theres nothing wrong with escapism and i think abstract "philosophy" and theory is out of touch with reality too. Read journalism if you want to know about real life stuff.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 12:57:01 2019 No.13504189 >mein kampf >non-fiction L M A O

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 12:58:21 2019 No.13504195 >>13500444 cringe

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 18:12:14 2019 No.13505720 >>13504189 literally wtf did he mean by this

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 18:23:26 2019 No.13505802 >>13500444 cringe but checked

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 18:29:21 2019 No.13505842 >>13500444 Your voice is fucking filthy, fix it man.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 18:31:31 2019 No.13505857 >>13498069 1 and 2 were good desu

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 18:45:21 2019 No.13505976 >>13500444 Kek and checked

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 19:00:08 2019 No.13506107 >>13498050 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dv13gl0a-FA

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 19:07:08 2019 No.13506159 >>13503239 I feel like fiction is a small fraction of all written work, if you start including manuals, documentation, brochures, and other things like that. I know you said literature, I just felt like bringing this up

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 19:08:29 2019 No.13506166 >>13506107 I saw it posted in the thread that talked about cuddling up with a video game

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 20:16:46 2019 No.13506558 >>13497891 >sean harris

Anonymous Sun Jul 21 20:23:48 2019 No.13506604

>>13500531
I'll mention a couple of my favorites.

if you want to do another biography, the hands-down best I've come across is Walter Isaacson's biography of Einstein. He explains the scientific ideas of Bohr, Planck, Einstein, et al in a way the average reader can understand. But if you're not into science and space, don't bother with this one.

If you're into history, I have two suggestions. One is called Napoleon in Egypt by Paul Strathern. From start to finish, this book just keeps throwing interesting fact after interesting fact at you. The tale of Napoleon in Egypt is fascinating.

The second one I'd recommend is called Is Paris Burning? by Larry Collins and Dominique LaPierre. That's a quote from Hitler; this book goes through the story of why Paris, despite being rigged with explosives (a shit-ton of torpedoes, actually) wasn't blown up by the retreating Nazis despite Hitler's insistence on it. The book is AMAZINGLY well-written (Collins and Lapierre, in other books as well, weave the story through the eyes of multiple persons) and the last 100 pages or so, which tells of the fight for Paris and its liberation by the Allies, transports you right into the euphoria-stricken streets of Paris. You are among the soldiers as the pretty Parisian women in their summer dresses flock to kiss and hug you. A true standout.

I read mainly nonfiction, and have recommended above books that I REALLY enjoyed. If you could give me a specific topic you're interested in, I might could help you out.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 20:53:48 2019 No.13506730 File: 111 KB, 612x867, kariluoto-612x867.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>13497796 damn it feels good, glad to be chad for once in a while.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 20:55:20 2019 No.13506739 >>13497796 >Equating "Fiction" to "Fantasy". Found your problem. Maybe you should go back to TV series and cartoons. They might be more up to your speed.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 20:58:15 2019 No.13506757 >>13500444 >https://vocaroo.com/i/s0rWylFF1286.. Being that much of a chad.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 21:18:31 2019 No.13506866 >>13497796 Are religious texts non-fiction?

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 22:07:29 2019 No.13507046 >>13500444 >https://vocaroo.com/i/s0rWylFF1286 Now that the dust has settled, was he based? I'm thinking yes.

Anonymous Sun Jul 21 22:18:14 2019 No.13507080
File: 75 KB, 564x847, 3425e16ddc5e82653146226267cfe52d.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>13497796

i find the opposite to be true. normies(succubi especially) like to read fiction.

I only read non-fiction. i see fiction as a waste of time.

I've read 1984 and catcher in the rye. that's about it

catcher in the rye was forgettable. i can't even remember what it was about. a disaffected youth. that's all i remember about it

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 22:23:32 2019 No.13507100 >>13497796 I like to enjoy things, get behind me Satan.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 22:27:19 2019 No.13507121 >>13497927 Virgin teleologist detected.

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 22:41:16 2019 No.13507186 >>13500444 Drinkin Outta Cups

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 22:42:00 2019 No.13507193 >>13500573 From this video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdU635esPpQ

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 22:49:09 2019 No.13507220 >>13500444 You didn't say anything at all there

Anonymous Sun Jul 21 22:51:56 2019 No.13507235

If you have to choose between fiction and non-fiction, it means you're not reading enough. Some people actually don't have time because of work or children, so it would make more sense for them to only read one, but you're browsing /lit/, so shut the fuck up

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 23:08:33 2019 No.13507326 >>13506604 Ill certainly look into those. if you could, do you know of any interesting true stories? I was reading about the bombing of the Harveys Casino the other day and found it very interesting

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 23:15:51 2019 No.13507373 >>13497796 based

>>	Anonymous Sun Jul 21 23:20:26 2019 No.13507402 >>13500444 b&rp

>>	Anonymous Mon Jul 22 03:44:15 2019 No.13508290 >>13500444 >it's another gay derails thread by spouting incoherent babbling FUCK THIS STUPID FUCKING BOARD

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/lit/ - Literature