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/lit/ - Literature

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13438965 No.13438965 [Reply] [Original]

Books that explain this better?

>> No.13438974

Descartes' Meditations
he at least makes the argument sound less cringe

>> No.13438978

It's an argument riddled with fallacious reasoning.

>> No.13439001

>>13438978
Your argument is riddled with fallacious reasoning

>> No.13439039

>>13439001
I provided no argument. Are you retarded?

>> No.13439047
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13439047

>I provided no argument. Are you retarded?

>> No.13439052

>>13439039
>I provided no argument
That’s the point

>> No.13439056

>>13439047
Imagine living with this person's brain in your head.

>> No.13439066
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13439066

>Imagine living with this person's brain in your head.

>> No.13439093

>>13439066
>>13439047
Might as well be talking to myself here. Why is it that the only soiface posters that have remained on /lit/ are uniformly low-IQ people with nothing interesting to say, who are mostly christian? Did other people stop posting the soiface memes out of embarrassment?

>> No.13439095

>>13439047
>>13439066
Please commit suicide

>> No.13439709

>>13439093
can you prove that assertion or did you just pull it out of your ass?

>> No.13439815
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13439815

>>13438965
Lol none of that follows although it's a good attempt
I'll try and fix
P1 EVERYTHING broken down has a linear value with two absolute extremes
P2 In morality, the linear value has at its extremes pure good and pure evil.
Considering the ontology hasn't been proven:(I'll make one)
P3 At the base level everything has a bilateral value of existing and not existing.
P4 Math exists for you and for me (and the rest of this universe) outside perception and in an objective manner.
P5 Math must exist prior to perception otherwise nuclear fusion couldn't operate correctly (two hydrogen atoms morph into a helium) and our universe wouldn't be here.
P6 Even if only our perceptions existed (solipsism), the world, inside our perception, necessitates and works on there being a time before us and math existing immaterially prior to perception.
C1: There is an objective nature to the universe through Metaphysics (P4 & P5)
P7 Ethics or morality is an adherence to your Metaphysical structure
C2: There is an objective ethics, or moral perfection (C1 & P7)
P8 God is the most and pure good.
C3: God Exists (P2 P3 C2 & P8)

>> No.13439832

>>13438965
This is just Thomas Aquinas' argument from perfection so I guess him.

>> No.13440810

>>13439052
be civil

>> No.13440824
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13440824

>>13439815

>> No.13440843

>>13439815
morality is what people need to survive though, its not good, and doesnt prove god. I dont think this makes sense. so math proves the perfect morality? So what? sure there could be a perfect morality, but thats just some made up thing to keep people harmonious. the universe has its own rules, and is infinite, its not based around people.

>> No.13440852

>>13439815
P4 is incorrect, which invalidates C1, which invalidates C2, which invalidates C3. nice try though

>> No.13440853
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13440853

>>13438965
>by applying this to morality

>> No.13440867

Morality isn't reducible to a coefficient and the last thing the big cheese is is a morality maximizer, just look the fuck around you and tell me that's all optimal.

>> No.13440954

>>13438965
The Bible

>> No.13441059

>>13439052
holy shit lmao

>> No.13441067

>>13440852
Brainlet

>> No.13441080

>>13439815
In regards to P6, why does math have to exist before the big bang? Couldn't it have come into being at the precise moment the universe came into being, along with the rest of its laws and principles?

Also, could you further explain P7? You never explained what the human Metaphysical structure was, or even what a specific object's Metaphysical structure means in the first place. Or why morality is adherence to it. Furthermore, what happens if an object doesn't adhere to its Metaphysical structure?

>> No.13441117

Math doesn’t exist.

>> No.13441137

>>13439815
Any argument that relies on math existing is gonna be a no from me dawg. God is real but math sure as hell isn't.

>> No.13441159

>>13439815
Math did not exist prior to humans; humans invented it to explain the universe.

>> No.13441166

>>13438965
>we can see that
How can you see that? Where does absolute good come in to play? This is word salad pretending to be wisdom.

>> No.13441182

>>13440852
>>13441117
>>13441137
>>13441159
this

>> No.13441220

>>13439815
good on you for giving it a shot but how do you not feel silly with most of this?

premise 4 is suspect as fuck - good luck finding evidence for how the universe works in an objective matter that isn't filtered through a subject

premise 6? how do you type that in good faith? what reason do you have for assuring that?
>>13440867
quality post, but Leibniz would like a word with you

>> No.13441224

>>13438965

1. God must be real

By putting that phrase near a number, means it's true. Therefore, god is real.

>> No.13441256

Faith alone is needed.

>> No.13441298

God is almighty => God is more powerful than any other entity.

An entity that doesn't require to exist in order to create is more powerful than an entity that can create only if it exists

=> God doesn't exist
BTFO Theists.

>> No.13441322

>>13441220
Yes, and Inspector Pangloss wants to talk my ear off, I'm sure.

>> No.13441331

Hegel's interpretation of Spinoza's god is still the best version of ''god'' if you want to call it that

>> No.13441533

>>13438965
holy shit this is retarded

>> No.13441547

>trying to logically prove or disprove the existence of god
is there a more obvious sign of a midwit than this?

>> No.13443248
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13443248

>>13438965
>by applying this to morality
wat

>> No.13443262

>>13439815
incredibly stupid post lmao

>> No.13443300

>Not arguing that you have to presuppose God exists due to the impossibility of the contrary
Cringe

>> No.13443303
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13443303

>>13438965
>value
>morality
>God

That's a nice collection of spooks.

>> No.13443307

>>13439052
kek

>> No.13443334

>>13441331
Hegel was an athiest

>> No.13445063

>>13439815
P4 has already been overridden in philosophy and will be overridden in the sciences by quantum theorists soon enough.

>> No.13445090

>>13439052
Hes just a boy

>> No.13445105

>>13438965
>all values can bilaterally continue to infinity
>By applying this to morality, we can see that there is an objective moral perfection
lol, the person sorta forgot the part where you can't reach the end of infinity because it is infinitely continuing, and therefore an objective moral perfection doesn't exist because that would imply the reaching the end of infinity lol. People really fall for this crap?

/thread

>> No.13445111

>>13441298
>An entity that doesn't require to exist in order to create
just by being an entity it would exist.

>> No.13445121

>>13438965
>an absolute good exists
oh lordy religitards are fucking stupid

>> No.13445133

>>13439815
>Math exists for you and for me (and the rest of this universe) outside perception and in an objective manner.
>Math must exist prior to perception otherwise nuclear fusion couldn't operate correctly
yeah, and the word "cloud" must exist prior to perception otherwise rain couldn't vaporize when it condenses, and the word "water" must exist prior to perception otherwise H2O couldn't operate correctly, as well as every other word describing a part of our environment too. I guess every language is now "objective" too, according to your reasoning?

>> No.13445171
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13445171

>>13439815
>P4 & P5

>> No.13445197

>>13445133
I think he meant, if math is just another language that had no more bearing on an objective reality than English, then how could it have lead us to harnessing nuclear fusion, something so complex that takes place at a level beyond the average human's comprehension?

>> No.13446475

Suma Theologica

>> No.13446604

You need to take a leap of faith

>> No.13446648

don't want to throw my boy St. Anselm under the bus but it sounds like him more than St. Thomas

>> No.13446680

>>13445171
70IQ detected. No philosopher who shuns math should be taken seriously

>> No.13446698

>>13438965
It argues in the boundless abstract and not the twisted mass of laws and see-saw constructions that make up the physical world.