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/lit/ - Literature

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13361350 No.13361350 [Reply] [Original]

Might not be the best place to ask, but are there any writers who have an extremely negative opinion on music?

I love music but I feel like I love it like I used to love video games - as a way to get a steady supply of dopamine without accomplishing anything. I want to eschew all voluntary listenings of music but i'm scared a bit by the fact that nobody seems to think that music is as "mindless" as television or vidya; on the contrary, plenty of people consider it essential to humanity. Help me out please, all I can find is clickbait shit written by soccer moms about lyrical content (which wouldn't apply to me).

>> No.13361360

why would anyone have a negative opinion on music. I can understand genres, but not the concept, thats retarded.

>> No.13361474

>>13361360
Read the OP. Same reason they’d hate tv or vidya. These mediums usually only fulfill base desires and keep us hooked through base desires.

>> No.13361618

Recently read Babbling Corpse. Though it's about vaporwave, it is a great critique of music as a whole, specifically of constant consumeristic consumption of it. Try it.

>> No.13361631

>>13361350
Not that I know of. Salinger probably hated films, though.

>> No.13362124
File: 166 KB, 420x626, 9781472955715.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13362124

>>13361350

>> No.13362156

Nabokov disliked music though he wished he did

>> No.13363134

is playing a music instrument /lit/?

>> No.13363153

>>13361350
>music girl.jpg
Isn’t that Aubrey Plaza though?

Plato is famous for hating music, I believe.

>> No.13363307

>>13361350
Marcus Aurelius and Charles Darwin give brief mention to disliking music, but I can't think of anyone who dislikes music that would write about it at length. The only criticism is the idea of a steady supply of dopamine, which can be accomplished by a number things besides music. It may make more sense to read on the negative effects of instant gratification and how to delay it. If music itself is the focal point, you may just replace that addiction with another

>> No.13363316

>>13361360
>why would anyone have a negative opinion on music
I've seen that people post here when talking about the arts.

>> No.13363359

>>13361350
You're not "accomplishing" anything by reading fiction either, or consuming art in general. This mindset is so misguided. If you're just interested in imbibing useful information efficiently then go read a textbook or something.

>> No.13363411

https://youtu.be/MX2tU-E7uD8

>> No.13363416

These people hate music more than anyone
https://youtu.be/58nPEe-TU-w

>> No.13363445

>>13361350
I agree that it's no better than TV or Vidya, but if you keep an open mind about both those things there are good things to find in certain works. The same can be said about music.

>> No.13363485

>>13361350
There is a time and a place for music though and it absolutely can be a higher art form than vidya or movies. I can understanding wanting to rid yourself of most 20th century music, but jazz, classical, and a few other genres have been proven to relax the mind and increase concentration/productiveness.

OP have you ever played an instrument? There is something truly sublime when when you are jamming out in perfect rhythm. I don't think you will find too many intellectual writings shitting on music.

>> No.13363515

My problem with music is how intrusive to every second of every day. It’s basically impossible to escape and then people also plug into headphones to listen in the moments in between.

>> No.13363651

>>13361350
Why would you purposefully remove beauty from your life? I don't understand. Music is the highest form of art.

>> No.13363655

Music is extremely overrated and totally unnecessary

>> No.13363657

>>13363651
>Music is the highest form of art

No dude it really isn't

>> No.13363692

>>13363657
It’s the purest form

>> No.13363715

>>13361360
Well one good criticism on music is it's the fact that it tends to be pretty compartmentalized, you google some video on youtube, listen to the music and that's it. However, if you want something more meaningful then you have to relate it to some experience, like say, in video games or in movies, that make music all the more engaging, the more immersive, but appreciation of music on its own involves instead one's own effort to identify with it. But oftentimes when the music is lacking in lyrics, one is left on their own to justify how that music relates to one's life, and given the pluralities and discontinuities between the different forms of music, it's not always that obvious how to engage with music in a way that is authentic and not just a kind of virtue signaling. The question hence becomes how does one absorb within the music and provide it with meaning, such that it transcends its local context and ceases from being a compartmentalized video in youtube (if that's your way to watch music, as it often is for some people) It's easy if those meanings are already given, but if they aren't what do you do?

>> No.13363723

>>13363657
What do you mean? Film is good for conveying ideas and themes, but lacks in striking pure, primordial emotion. Art (as in paintings and the like) is good at conveying emotions, but the ideas portrayed are distant because the artist usually has a set goal on what he wants to portray, and they lack a sense of importance of grandeur. Its only rival is literature, but music has a deeper, more spiritual aspect to it.
I think the problem is that people nowadays only listen to rock/metal/pop/rap/electronic genres of music, which I agree serve mostly as entertainment or as a way to pass the time by.

>> No.13363733

>it's a psueds abuse platitudes and other horseshit to hierarchize the arts episode

How embarrassing for you all.

>> No.13363738

>>13363723
Not the anon you're responding to, but I don't think it makes sense to say that a visual artist has a goal while a musician does not. Everyone alwyas has something in mind when they're doing what they're doing, and you know, lyrical abstract art is pretty close to art music. They both share this remoteness and can lead to an exploration of some underexplored aspects of the mind. Additionally, it doesn't make sense to say that they lack a sense of importance of grandeur, as there are definitely sublime paintings, just think of Rothko for instance

>> No.13363787

>>13363738
>I don't think it makes sense to say that a visual artist has a goal while a musician does not
The musician certainly has a goal, but I feel that it is less attached to the work of art than the visual artist's. This is best shown when a work of art exists solely as a political statement or to break away from the status quo. This isn't to say music is never political or never defies norms, but it is still usually enjoyed as music separate from its politics. It does not seem to be the case for a lot of paintings, sculptures, etc., where they are enjoyed for the statements they make rather than the art itself.
>it doesn't make sense to say that they lack a sense of importance of grandeur, as there are definitely sublime paintings
True, what is important or grand varies from person to person. That was mostly my subjective interpretation. For me, music is grand because it seems to strike right at the core, whereas visual art seems more worldly, usually drawing on abstract explanations for its meaning. That is just my subjective experience, though.

>> No.13363865

>>13363787
I guess that is true for a lot of contemporary art, though on the other hand, I feel that this is an impression caused by the artworks that are talked about on the media. However, I remember that an artist told me that in their school almost everyone did something that had a political message in it, and that only a minority searched for things like "the sublime" and that such thinking was mostly seen as naive.

>That was mostly my subjective interpretation. For me, music is grand because it seems to strike right at the core, whereas visual art seems more worldly, usually drawing on abstract explanations for its meaning. That is just my subjective experience, though.
I can see it's your subjective experience, but even then I would like to be able to relate with what you're saying, and I can't relate to what you say about visual art being more worldly and music striking right at the core. I don't believe it's necessary for visual art to have a precise meaning instead of some confusion the author is expressing or some exploration that the author doesn't quite understand or that just feels right or fits certain intuition in a way that would be similar to how much of music and poetry works, especially those that aren't too self-aware but just absorbed in the moment and in the intuition. But what do you think?

>> No.13363875

>>13361350

there was a anon working on a disquisition against it

>> No.13364452

>>13361350
I read a quote somewhere about music being the only art form that requires no thought to appreciate. Music certainly plays more off of emotion than thought, there's even been scientific studies to show that your emotions can be manipulated by hearing different types of music, a fact that Hollywood has been keenly aware of for decades.

That being said the logic behind OP is pants shitting retarded. Any medium of art can be construed as "mindless" with enough bad examples. Everyone will think television is mindless if all they see is the Kardashians, everyone will think Video Games are mindless if all they see is Fortnight or Call of Duty, everyone will think music is mindless if all they hear is Taylor Swift or lil Wayne, everyone will think books are mindless if all they read is the Divergent series.

You want to listen to music that's actually deep and meaningful? Seek it out. Start with what you know is good, or heard to be good and go from there.

Oh yes, also.
>>>/mu/

>> No.13364636

>>13361618
I’ll look more into it but its preface suggests that it isn’t a critique of music as a whole (and only a critique on a modern version of it).
>>13363153
Damn, I just assumed the Greeks loved music. That’s also definitely not Plaza.
>>13363359
That’s what I plan on doing for the most part.
>>13363485
I do, which only seems to enhance the carnal pleasure I get from it. Thats my only problem really, music can stir any number of emotions in me but it feels somehow cheap/wrong to be crying or jamming out on my bed without having done anything that’s worthy of these emotions. If I can get these emotions naturally through living a virtuous life, then why not do that instead of supplementing with music?
>>13363655
Hopefully you’re right, I just want to know if I’m going to be missing anything crucial if I never listen to another song again. Isn’t there a reason why every culture seems to have music? >>13364452
I have a strong suspicion (but only a suspicion) that your first paragraph is completely true. Music is like a pill I can take to numb or produce certain emotions from my soul like how adderall produces a sense of “calm happiness” in me. I think I’m more of an active listener than most but consuming music is still as easy (and mindless) as consuming tv or video games. So it’s not that I don’t listen to meaningful music, it’s that its “meaningfulness” comes from a place that’s not genuine and that it is too easy to achieve. My basic idea is this: music (like other art forms) is a distraction that pales in comparison to the real thing and threatens to keep us from the real thing by being easy and ‘good enough’.

>> No.13364668
File: 101 KB, 480x331, Joyce-and-guitar.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13364668

>>13363134
Yes

>> No.13364687

>>13364636
In my opinion music itself is one aspect of god itself. Music is essentially playfull, there is no real end or beginning, nowhere to get to. It is the playing itself, which makes the music. That's what life is.

If you look at at Music nowadays, it is bastardized because of our ability to record it.
Playing and listening to music live is kind of an archaic expirience, because you start resonating with it. Of course this can be manipulated and even morse with in our digital age.

>> No.13364792

Music done properly is a very primal experience, it connects us to our pre-language state where music/chanting can help us become one with the cosmos. It can be a very healing experience but most people listen to music wrong.

Music with lyrics is generally bad but like a classical piece it can help you experience and process emotions. It should be listened to as a mediation, either sitting or dancing, ideally live or with a high quality system.

Listening to music whilst you walk, browse the internet or do something else is generally an escapist technique to occupy the mind/subconscious since you are unable to deal with it yourself.

>> No.13366230

>>13361350
>>13361474
>These mediums usually only fulfill base desires and keep us hooked through base desires
Don't extrapolate your bad taste to everyone.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CL00B8TQMBQ

>> No.13366250

>>13363153
>Plato is famous for hating music, I believe.
>t. only read the republic once for a course