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/lit/ - Literature


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13345861 No.13345861 [Reply] [Original]

>be fascist
>read all the poststructuralists leftist types like foucault, deleuze, derrida etc
>they wrote thinking it would dissuade people like me from fascist ideas and oppressive power structures
>i now understand my philosophy and can argue for it far better due to these critiques
>have convinced several well read leftists of fascist ideas thanks to them


get played gommies

>> No.13345866

based tbqh

>> No.13345870

Fascism is a meme ideology desu

>> No.13345874

>>13345861
deleuze was basically a reactionary
fascism is still a bitch boy ideology though

>> No.13345876

It's likely that we could infer something about the possible scale of what we're dealing with here, (I personally am of the opinion that it would be relatively larger than expected), were the issue itself verified to be coming from a trusted source.

>> No.13345878

Being a fascist is only appealing to those who already have power and money, otherwise it's essentially suicide and cuckoldry.

>> No.13345884

>>13345878
silicon-valley libertarianism is a better richfag ideology

>> No.13345886

>>13345870
>>13345874
>>13345878
>he doesn't love mystical antisemitized prussianism

sad!

>> No.13345892

>>13345878
It's for people who jack off to the thought of being powerful. Fascism is the masculine equalivant of a teenage girl wishing she was as popular as Hannah Montana

>> No.13345898

>>13345892
you're projecting tbqh. It's just a sensible ideology, it's just as sensible if you're working class, it will still benefit you.

>> No.13345903

Analytic philosophy is better for undermining modern progressives.

The left says there's no white race, so you sink them in an ontological debate about non existants.

They argue against essentialism for transexuals, get them to debate about fundamental properties and relations.

>> No.13345905 [DELETED] 

>>13345878
>>13345892
fiction readers literally think fascism is synonymous with totalitarianism

>> No.13345907

>>13345878
>>13345892
OP IRREVOCABLY BTFO

>> No.13345914

>>13345886
i know you only consider yourself fascist for meme clout but fascism only appeals to those who don't have the conviction to commit to individualist ethics and don't follow through with the necessary action which collectivist ethics would lead them towards, which leads them to worshiping the ideal of strength and praying for someone smarter to come and save them from the world they created.

>>13345898
>fascism as pragmatist
fascism is more ideological than fucking socialism, it's the politics of aesthetic and striving towards an idealized nationalist self-image. no real fascist would try to claim it as a pragmatic system

>> No.13345923

>>13345914
>In politics Fascism aims at realism; in practice it desires to deal only with those problems which are the spontaneous product of historic conditions and which find or suggest their own solutions (9). Only by entering in to the process of reality and taking possession of the forces at work within it, can man act on man and on nature
(Doctrine of Fascism)
It is fundamentally pragmatic and hostile to the 'scientific' claims of 19th century abstract systems

>> No.13345937
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13345937

LMAO, so a /pol/tard basically. Is this the power of /lit/ter?

>> No.13345939

>>13345878
Quite the contrary, fascism is a revolutionary psuedo-populist (volkisch) movement that appeals more to disaffected working class members than it does elites.

Powerful elites already have it good in this world as it stands, in these social relations constituted. Fascism is uncomfortable to them , and in many cases targets them, especially elites that made their fortunes off of usery or other unproductive financial tricks that don't benefit the Aryan racial superorganism.

>> No.13345947

>>13345923
there's a few quotes out there that claim fascism intends to be more down to earth than other ideologies (in practice it aims only at being less scientific), but they stand against the practiced role of fascism in government. if fascism were only concerned with material problems and realist solutions, it wouldn't spend so much of its energy entertaining the notion of an activated man

>>13345939
>aryan racial superorganism
lmao this guy thinks he's a realist

>> No.13345952

>>13345947
Pragmatism doesn't imply materialism.

>> No.13345954

>>13345939
So it's just another facet of the School of Resentment? Power-hungry rejects and lower classes fueled by fee fees and anger? lol @ fascists

>> No.13345959

>>13345952
it requires materialism if you want it to not be fucking stupid

>> No.13345961

>>13345874
shut up atomized xeno slime.

>> No.13345965

>>13345959
No it just requires that what you do seems to be working, which it did for the fascist states.

>> No.13345969

OP here, nobody in this thread has any idea what they're talking about. Fascism at its core ideological roots, the necessity for something to be considered fascist, can be summarized as a synthesis between totalitarianism, palingenesis and ultranationalism. This unique synthesis blending the mythos with absolute subservience to the devoted mass of the fanatical warrior nation is fascism.

>> No.13345978

>>13345969
Have you even read the Doctrine of Fascism? It's about a spiritual view of man and the world that sees his purpose as being fulfilled in an organic state.

>> No.13345989

>>13345969
>dude you just don't get it, dictatorships are cool xDDD

>> No.13345993

>>13345965
>Only by entering in to the process of reality and taking possession of the forces at work within it, can man act on man and on nature
as soon as you leave this framework for that of metaphysical aryanism any attachment to pragmatism melts down and it becomes a movement motivated by ideological thirst. the idea that pragmatism is doing what "seems to be working" is mindless idolatry

>>13345969
the problem with nietzche and heidegger as a foundation for fascism is that they also sow the seeds of its inevitable collapse, which culminates in the ultimate failure of evola and the third reich

>> No.13346002

>>13345989
>>dude you just don't get it, dictatorships are cool xDDD
Do you have an argument or are you too busy putting out the fires your side has created? It's too late now to avoid what's coming friend

>> No.13346003

>>13345993
>as soon as you leave this framework for that of metaphysical aryanism
If you do choose to do that it's just the spiritual expression of a people, it wouldn't impact how you conducted statecraft.

Pragmatism is quite literally just judging things by their effects. This is the basic meaning of the word.

>> No.13346004 [DELETED] 

>>13345905
>>13345937

>> No.13346006

Nobody cares about your ideology my friend. Grow up

>> No.13346009

>>13346002
I don't think it will happen in our lifetime.

>> No.13346018

>>13346002
Also:
>are you too busy putting out the fires your side has created?
What are you even implying here? I'm right-wing... just not to the point of retardation.

>> No.13346026

>>13346003
you're trying to have it both ways. you can't have the antiscientific pathos of fascism without throwing the methodology of pragmatism to the wayside. pragmatism has a scientific approach, the idea of judging matters by effect in practical applications comes directly from Bacon, it's super-scientific. pragmatism is literally everything that fascism attempts to reject about liberalism

>> No.13346037

>>13346026
You really can though, do you think really Christian people can't be practical in everyday matters? The spiritual and practical aspects of Fascism apply to different spheres of life.

Pragmatism doesn't require science, you don't need a science to tell you how to govern(this usually in fact causes huge problems, trying to turn it into an exact science), you need a capable statesman to do it from experience, intuition, and reason. Carlyle drones on endlessly about this in various places.

>> No.13346048

>arguing for fascism
stop playing intellectual jew games and crush them under your boots. that is what fascism is about, pseud

>> No.13346051
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13346051

>>13346026
>the idea of judging matters by effect in practical applications comes directly from Bacon
You can't seriously be this retarded can you?

>> No.13346055

>>13346037
pragmatism is defined (you even just typed the words out yourself) as being structured around the observed effects of one's actions. isolating the effects of one's actions is done with the scientific method. that's the purpose of the scientific method and its distillate. the two are rearrangements of the same concepts. even the idea of a capable statesman is in no way isolated from the scientific nature of pragmatism. how do you expect such a statesman to gather meaningful experience, by which framework should they make decisions? by the a priori theory of philosophy, or by the a posteriori structure of scientific reason? perhaps from the diamond anus of the aryan superorganism?

>> No.13346056

>>13346026
>you can't have the antiscientific pathos of fascism without throwing the methodology of pragmatism to the wayside
O boy do I have a rabbit hole for you.

>> No.13346061

>>13346055
You can't run scientific experiments on states to find the laws they run by. I agree that they're both pragmatic approaches, but calling government a science stretches the term beyond what is reasonable. Fascism emphasizes the particularity of historical instances, the lack of one rule being applicable to all cases, which calls for an individual who is intimately involved with the situation to actively engage with it. This is opposed to the basic concept of science, that a result has to be replicable, by different people at different times.

>> No.13346093

>>13346061
if fascism intended for a flexible approach, anchored in the feedback attained from application of statecraft, it would take the assumption of non-replicability and take it to its only reasonable extent, which leads to decentralization of practical power, federalism, and technocracy. fascism naturally abhors all of these things, because it begins from different assumptions. You mistake the application of science as you understand it for the application of science in statecraft-- the latter would not necessarily stress replication in situations that are unsuited to it. replication is only relied on to pry causation from the ephemera of correlation. which, perhaps not coincidentally, is something fascists rarely know how to do.

>> No.13346099

>>13346093
>- the latter would not necessarily stress replication
Then it wouldn't be science at all. If a result can not replicated it means nothing to science.

Fascism doesn't advocate decentralization of power because it views that as fundamentally impossible, seeing hierarchy as an inescapable component of the state(and all complex social structures), and not a negative thing anyway.

>> No.13346107

>>13345861
Fascism can be quite spiritual in a sense that it surrounds the culture and Volk of a nation. Virtually every race and every nation that has adopted Fascism has had it different in some way or another, Fascism adapts to culture. It is perhaps the only ideology than can do this. A democracy has a clear constitution for every single people’s, ignoring the culture of the people and making the democracy the culture of the people. The same thing happens with Communism, an entirely new way of thinking holds the state in an iron grip. With Fascism, the ideology adapts to the culture of the nation, not perverting it, but adding on to it and becoming part of it

>> No.13346109

>>13346099
hierarchy being inescapable changes nothing about how you apply it. a decentralization of power is only about the relative autonomy of lower echelons and the relative power and benefit received by higher echelons. it's the approach that the Romans took to distant lands they conquered. Ceding control from the hands of central authority creates a state which is more resilient and adaptable than one which revels in its hierarchy. Fascist states are brittle states, federal states have the strength to bend. This is why the Roman legacy extends farther than most people think it does-- its constituent governments continued autonomously after the center fell. like most of the idols fascism places at the center of its vision, rome is a direct threat to its argument.

>> No.13346111
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13346111

>>13346107
>The same thing happens with Communism, an entirely new way of thinking holds the state in an iron grip.
Bitch you thought.

>> No.13346113

>>13345861

I've been reading certain volumes recently for this exact same reason.

(Franco Berardi is an infantile idiot)

>> No.13346115

>>13346109
There are benefits and cons to the amount of freedom a central power gives its constituents, Machiavelli and Fascism would agree that only a case by case appraisal of individual instances is sensible, not a pseudo-scientific abstract approach of maximizing one strategy for its benefits while ignoring negatives.

>> No.13346118

>>13346109
So you believe Rome was decentralised, and that Fascism is opposed to decentralisation?

>> No.13346119

>>13345861
>I actually understood what I was reading.
Common mistake, buddy.

>> No.13346121

>>13345884
>He doesn't know the silicon valler richbois will turn fash the second the workers start being too uppity.

>> No.13346213

>>13345874
yes. A self-avowed Marxist who discredited dialectics because he viewed them as too reactionary was most definitely a fascist. Never speak on Deleuze again until you've read him, retard.

>> No.13346232

>>13346121
>the second the workers start being too uppity.
Communism has long since been a tool of the Capitalists.
Every single thing that Communists are successfully pushing directly benefits the Capitalists, sexual liberation, immigration, etc. all reduces the risks of any serious labour revolt to basically zero.

The Capitalists have no need for Fascism (that's by the way why they ALL rally against it), they already own Communism. Fascism is really the only thing they "fear", as it would actually recreate the conditions in which worker struggle might be possible.

>> No.13346307

>>13345861
absolutely based

>> No.13346321

>>13345861
>they wrote thinking it would dissuade people like me from fascist ideas and oppressive power structures
You wrote thinking it would dissuade people like me from noticing that you're retarded. They wrote narcissistically, just like you narcissistically assume they wrote for anything even remotely like "people," much less you.

>> No.13346356

>>13346321
this was a very narcissistic post assuming people like "you" would notice that :)))

>> No.13346367

>>13346356
And now we've both reached true narcissism, where we acknowledge our narcissism openly and thereby implicitly apologize while able to maintain our explicit behavior. Good, we've Americanized, just in time for the chinks

>> No.13346453

>>13345861
based

>> No.13346479

>>13346232
Yeah look at all these liberals! All their liberal capitalist ideas are capitalist! Communist btfo!

>> No.13346502

>>13346479
But every communist I know is pro LGBTQS+, immigration, anti-racism, etc..

Just look at what communists are *actually* pushing when they open their mouth and of course you can purity spiral and claim "these aren't real communists", "real communists are for workers right", but then the number of real communists is too small to be relevant at all.

>> No.13346506

>>13345874
Deleuze was a turbo-leftist but his work is so dumb that he ended up empowering capitalism, so if you're a classical Marxist Deleuze ends up reactionary because he hinders progress towards the implosion of capitalism.

>> No.13346513

>>13346502
The overlap between ideologies rests there for neo Marxism but neo Marxism is a liberal trad Marx synthesis

>> No.13346518

>>13345861
they couldn't have written thinking that would dissuade or persuade people like you, that is 80 iq mongoloids. they were aware their work won't affect you in any way because you'll be unable to understand it

>> No.13346555

>>13346513
Irrelevant to my thesis.
That a tiny splinter group of "true" Marxists are still genuinely defending workers rights is no argument against the large majority of self identified Marxists who are actively working to subvert them.

Sure you can argue that these self identifying Marxists aren't a genuine representation of Marx and have been subverted by the liberal capitalists, but that is nothing but restating my thesis. The "brand" that is Marxism has been taken over, entirely neutering any person who calls himself a Marxist from ever being a threat to capitalists.

>> No.13346561

>>13345939
>that appeals more to disaffected working class members than it does elites.

HA

>Fascism is uncomfortable to them , and in many cases targets them

AHAHAHHAAHAHAH

>> No.13346567

>>13346561
Where is your argument?

How often have companies changed their logos to pride flags and to swastikas?

>> No.13346573

>>13346555
I was affirming fham

>> No.13346581

>ur dumb
>no! ur dumber
great thread /lit/. Now I hate every fucking ideology

>> No.13346600

>>13345923
>Fascism aims at realism
>simultaneously believing in an Ayrian super race which used to rule the planet thousands of years ago

>> No.13346651

>>13346600
>>simultaneously believing in an Ayrian super race which used to rule the planet thousands of years ago
[Citation needed]

>> No.13346712

>>13346651
Forschungsgemeinschaft Deutsches Ahnenerbe

>> No.13346794
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13346794

Neat.

>> No.13346822

>>13346600
Italian fascists weren't any more racist than any other democratic contemporary country.

also:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJY6NhccW4c&t=3s
(ignore cringy music and editing)

>> No.13346848

>>13345892
Why do literal retarded NEETs here think they'd be the new Hitler, Himmler or Goebbels? They'd be nothing more than war fodder or manual labourers.

>> No.13346862

>>13345939
>appeals more to disaffected working class members than it does elites.
then why do these elites pour so much of their money in fascism whenever it arises?

>> No.13346871
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13346871

>>13346848
Why not? It's a Clownworld. Anything could happen.

>> No.13346878

From my reading, the only difference between marxism and fascism is their interpretation of materialistic ontology. Fascism rejects it. Marxism embraces it.

I still haven't seen any good argument for rejecting materialism.

>> No.13346880

>>13346502
>But every communist I know is pro LGBTQS+, immigration, anti-racism, etc..
And none of the communinsts you know have read anything by Marx. They call themselves communists because they saw "GAY SPACE COMMUNISM" on Tumblr or Reddit.

Unfortunately modern left wingers think "class" is wheter you have a bad or good job, and being mean to someone who isn't rich is "classist".

Anyone who wants to abolish the working class is a communist, they don't have to call themselves that.

>> No.13346902

>>13346878
Here’s one: if materialism and Darwinism are both true, then your brain is not made for truth, only survival. It can’t be too far, or we’d be dead, but this would mean that there is no good reason to believe the internal process of thought is not capable of arriving at reliable answers to questions like, “is materialism true.” Under materialism, you can’t even tell if this criticism of materialism is true. It’s just survival games.

>> No.13346905

>>13345939
>Powerful elites already have it good in this world as it stands, in these social relations constituted. Fascism is uncomfortable to them , and in many cases targets them, especially elites that made their fortunes off of usery or other unproductive financial tricks that don't benefit the Aryan racial superorganism.
This is why poor, ordinary people, such as the Koch brothers, are funding far right parties

>> No.13346952

>>13346902
You have a misunderstanding of darwinism. It doesn't presuppose survival as a teleogy. Darwinism is essentially a scientific history of living things. Darwinism may inspire some generalized metaphysical claims such as the meaning of life is to sleep, fuck, and die. But that's not a direct darwinist claim. A truly darwinist claim is incredibly boring like: pterodactyls used to like 200 million years ago, they ate smaller dinosaurs, and so on.

>> No.13346969

>fascist ideas

>> No.13346999

>>13345898
>fascism is sensible
yeah fucking the retarded racial categorisation that is always a core tenant of fascism is super pragmatic lmao

>> No.13347008

>>13346999
racism isn't a core tenet of fascism lol

>> No.13347011

>>13345886
>fascism is mystical antisemitized prussianism
Actually fucking read a book by a Fascist for once

>> No.13347132

>literally the only ideology with a worse success rate than communism

>> No.13347136

>>13346848
>>13346871
no youtube

>> No.13347155

>>13347132
>implying fascist governments haven't worked perfectly until foreign countries start to attack them
Literally never failed.

>> No.13347161

>>13346880
But then "Marxists" are beyond irrelevant.

If the vast majority of Marxists aren't "true Marxists", then what does being a Marxist even mean?
It's just a "brand", entirety owned by capitalists, which is pretty much my point.

>> No.13347174

>>13347155
name one (1) fascist govt that has lasted longer than a decade or so

you can cry that it only failed b/c muh cia/ussr, but then commies can too and the number of commie govts rises exponentially

>> No.13347175

>>13347132
>with a worse success rate than communism
Fascism was defeated in war, not due it's peace time policies.
Maybe you can criticize people like Franco for failing to establish long lasting regimes past the catastrophes which lead to the existence of these regimes and letting his country fall back into liberalism.

>> No.13347197

>>13347174
>name one (1) fascist govt that has lasted longer than a decade or so
It's pretty common knowledge that Hitler ruled from 33-45, that is longer then a decade.
Mussolini ruled from 22-43, also longer then a decade.
Both were brought down due to war, not through internal collapse.

It's like arguing that slave labour was economically unviable because the Confederates lost the war, pretty absurd.

>but then commies can too
The USSR did not fall due to Americans seizing Moscow, but internal collapse.
This is a retarded dichotomy.

>> No.13347210

>>13346502
>But every communist I know is pro LGBTQS+, immigration, anti-racism, etc..
Let me guess, American "communists"? lmao

>> No.13347222

>>13347197
historically illiterate

the ussr lasted for longer than both hitler and mussolini combined, and other communist govts have lasted for decades in smaller countries (ie cuba). many more lasted for about as long as hitler and mussolini then were overthrown (allende, sankara)

>> No.13347236

>>13347222
let me add, the wars were brought on by internal decisions attached to the ruling ideology. everyone didnt just invade germany without provocation

>> No.13347276

>>13347222
>the ussr lasted for longer than both hitler and mussolini combined, and other communist govts have lasted for decades in smaller countries (ie cuba). many more lasted for about as long as hitler and mussolini then were overthrown (allende, sankara)
>>13347236
Ok? And?

Your only argument is a non sequitur:
A collapsed => A had a bad model.

It's entirety non-sensical, as countries can collapse due to EXTERNAL reason (Italy, Germany) and internal reasons (USSR).

>> No.13347285

>>13347276
false dichotomy between external/internal. hitler started the war that led to him being crushed. further, germany was not strong enough to win the war, also an internal cause. stop embarrassing yourself

>> No.13347286
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13347286

>> No.13347290

>>13347222
Also, you are leaning FAR out of the window calling me historically illiterate, as someone who didn't even know Hitler's regime lastet more then a decade.

>> No.13347302

>>13347285
Thoughts on Spainish, Italian, and Argentinian fascism?

>> No.13347303

>>13347285
>hitler started the war that led to him being crushed. further, germany was not strong enough to win the war, also an internal cause.
But you can't judge Germanies social model by observing it was militarily inferior to the USSR.

Also, you didn't know the third Reich lastet for more then a decade, YOU should feel embarrassed.

>> No.13347311

>>13347210
No, German communists.

>> No.13347318
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13347318

What is it about Fascism, moreso than any other political theory/model, that has a billion self-assured pseuds come out of the woodwork thinking they're an expert on it despite never once opening a book by a Fascist?

>> No.13347373

>>13347303
>unironically defending the retardation of the 193/40s Germany and viewing it as a viable model for anything but self destruction

Please fellate a shotgun brainlet.

>> No.13347382

>>13347318
Stop being a cuckold and swallowing fascist propaganda

>> No.13347385

>>13345878
>neoliberal whites are comitting autogenocide via immigration and giving the nations their ancestors built away to foreigners
>fascism is essentially suicide and cuckoldry

HA good one. I see you've surrendered to the cogdis.

>> No.13347386

>>13347318
you could say the same for communism as well. i think that people are just bored of liberalistic performative politics and want radical politics.

>> No.13347393

>>13347373
>defending
The only thing I AM saying Is that you can't make a judgment based of it's military defeat.

>> No.13347408

>>13347393
Well you can though. They built an economic environment that would’ve been BTFO without the invasion of Poland, France etc. they’re economic system lead to the militarization lead to the world war, lead to soviets shitting on AGC and drag racing to Berlin.

Without the war there’s no economy, and fascist kiddies have no leg to stand on.

Inb4 tankie, no I’m a disgruntled center right

>> No.13347676

>>13347408
That doesn't follow. Fascist economics don't require war... It's just hands-on capitalism paired with some socialism (of the national variety). Not really that radical. The militarization was an expansionist goal -- not a necessity -- and there's no reason to think the economy would have failed had the military investment been (considerably) more modest. Even with the militarization, they might have turned out to be quite stable with the annexation of Poland/Austria/Hungary (although unavoidable conflict with the USSR would've made things interesting). We'll simply never know.

>> No.13347718

>>13345969
based

>> No.13347722

>>13347676
Lol being this much of a brainlet.

Their expansion was inherently intertwined with their economy. As for them being stable post Poland how retarded are you? At that point it was a ticking clock before America joined the war, and had Barbarossa been delayed you’d have the 1944 Red Army pounding in the Asshole of the ‘ubermensch’

People who think tyranny is an attractive philosophical option need to castrate themselves and drink bleach

>> No.13347733

>>13345861
>read fascist works to try and steal ideas from them to convince people like how fascists always steal leftist ideas to compensate
>it's all retarded and I learned nothing
fuck

>> No.13347734

>>13345937
Oh, so China then?

>> No.13347736

>>13345878
That goes for just about everything.

>> No.13347745

>>13347008
then why are all the fascist figures of the 21st century only ever talking about that? There's next to no authentic fascist figures today who aren't racial hygiene autists trying to LARP and pretend they'll get to decide who lives and dies under their rule. Hell even the ones from the 20th century are still autistically going on about International Jewry like Mosley and Hitler. Face it the movement's a write off, it's all race autism or nothing

>> No.13347758

>>13345878
this has to be the most retarded understanding of fascism ive ever seen

>> No.13347763

>>13345969
Best definition of fascism I've ever read

>> No.13347776
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13347776

>>13346905
>you

>> No.13347801

>>13347745
Most of the world takes a dim view of any manifestation of jewry anon. The ubiquity and persistence of this animus suggests to me that there's something to it.

>> No.13347828

WHAT'S A LIST OF ESSENTIAL FASCIST AUTHORS? I ONLY KNOW EVOLA.

>> No.13347829

>>13347801
Imagine believing there’s an international conspiracy of Jews.

We’re all just meat sacks collectively trying to figure shit out, people who believe in these massive conspiracies tend to not be capable of accepting the random and uncaring aspect of the universeZ

>> No.13347832
File: 314 KB, 1275x1650, 7F55DDCC-B820-4E4C-A1D0-C59FFDE8BF7A.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13347832

>>13347829
>t. shlomo shekelberg

>> No.13347841

>>13345993
>Julius Evola
>Fascist

Stop talking please. You dont understand third positionism or any of the related movements. National Socialism isnt fascistic. Both movements are part of third positionism but they are not the same thing. All you have to do is to actually read books and essays by third positionists istead of the left wing critique (nonsense) you are replicating here.

>> No.13347842

>>13345886
>mystical antisemitized prussianism
isn't that just National Socialism/Hitlerism?
t. not autistically knowledgeable about fascism

>> No.13347844

>have case of unwarranted self-importance
>be a chantard
>be a frog-poster.

sorry op. you're a triple nigger

>> No.13347851

Every frog guy should watch this.
100% quality content ;)


https://youtu.be/agzNANfNlTs

>> No.13347856

>>13347832
>dude niggers need to shut up structural oppresion and unearned privilege doesn't exist
>also the jews are privileged and we need to fix that
make your minds up /pol/

>> No.13347862

>>13347745
Mussolini (and a circle of his intellectual minions) technically devised the first principles of fascist ideology. Mussolini's Italy was no more racist than the substantially racist Americans or British, and ideologically they placed far less importance on race as Hitlerian fascism. Mussolini was even tolerant of Jews but wanted to further align his ideology with nazism to please his buddy Hitler.

In fact Italian fascist actually thought the Germans were full of shit and irrational. The main point for them was to revitalize the Roman Empire, which was always a multiethnic system.

>> No.13347871

>>13347862
>as
than
>In fact Italian fascist
In fact many Italian fascist intellectuals

This is what happens when you don't proof read.

>> No.13347874

>>13347722
Of course it was intertwined -- it takes economy to produce military. How was it 'inherent' though? What specifically about hands-on capitalism paired with some socialist policies requires hyperinvestment in military?

Your frothing at the mouth personal bias is clear in your post. You're not interested in seriously considering the ideas, and anything you say should be viewed with heavy skepticism.

>> No.13347880

>>13347733
So you had concluded that they were stealing from left wing movements before actually reading them and after reading their works you couldn't understand a thing so you called it retarded?
You sound like a low iq ideologue. I've meet a few like you in college. "Right wing" libertarians and "orthodox" marxists. If you are as retarded as you seem to be I pity you.

>> No.13347896
File: 754 KB, 518x1274, 3dway.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13347896

>> No.13347913

>>13347896
>not capitalism or socialism
so who owns the means of production? aliens?

>> No.13347916

Yeah you're beginning a movement

>> No.13347922

>>13347874
What I mean, Hans, is nothing about their economy was even remotely stable without the context of warfare. If they didn’t invade (sic.) their economy likely would’ve gone to shit with all the corner cutting that went on

As to fascism by itself, why is a managed economy so unique? The only way it works is in the context of an enlightened dictator; and nobody is _that_ enlightened so the point is redundant.

>> No.13347928

>>13347382
>Theoretical discussions and historical critique
>Propaganda
He is talking against people like you. Substantiate of GTFO.

>> No.13347935

>>13347856
Well, there are some big differences.
Nigs are allowed to criticize whitey (in fact it's now celebrated). Not so with juden... Maybe you can get away with if you're an 'oppressed class' yourself, but it doesn't happen much because typically the protecteds are allied against whitey (for now).

Also, the complaint about jews isn't so much that they're privileged but rather that their political and ideological influence is poison. I don't care if they're disproportionally successful... Good for them! I do care about AIPAC, ADL, SPLC, middleast entanglement, interminable weaponization of holocaust against all whites, etc.

>> No.13347941

>>13347828
BUMP

>> No.13347951

>>13347856
>be a jew
>convince niggers that Whites are oppressing them
>be a jew
>convince niggers you’re a persecuted minority and muh holocaust
Hallo

>> No.13347952

>>13347941
Retardation for authoritarian faggots: A Primer

>> No.13347960

>>13347952
XDDDD UPBOAT HAHAHAHA WELL MEMED SIR

>> No.13347962

>>13347913
The ownership of the means of production is irrelevant to the fascistic state. The total State owns all because it became what it wished to represent. This is why Mussolini spoke about the socialization of people instead of what is external to them. This is also why the fascists questioned the necessity of the class strugle. The fascistic dilution of "individuality" ends most of these issues. What remains is a technical discussion of alocation of scarce resourses to rival ends in relation to the good of the State.

>> No.13347966

>>13347828
Francis Parker Yockey - Imperium
Jonathan Bowden - Any youtube vid of him giving a speech

>> No.13347973

>>13347962
Just a reminder that the enlightened, freed peoples of the Mussolini regime hung him from a gibbet.

Sic semper Tyranis you dirty nog

>> No.13347987

>>13347828
Evola attacked fascism lmao

>> No.13347994

>>13347828
Evola wasnt a fascist. All you have to do is to read his writings. Evola saw third positionism in the same way Sartre saw orthodox marxist revolutionary movements. These movements had forces within them that could be guided towards greatness through truth and critique. Sartre even tried to create his own heterodox marxist current. Evola saw the SS as having the potential to become a mystical initiaic order.
As for third positionistic books you should read "Theoretical Fascism" and "The Alternative". Both are good introductions. After that you should read a few books by Carl Shmitt and Imperium by Yockey.

>> No.13348005

>>13347973
They were not representatives of the people. They had connections with marxist movements. Even if they were, this does not change the fact that fascism is a complete, coherent system.

>> No.13348012

>>13348005
Inb4 not true fascism

You faggots really are as bad as tankies

>> No.13348014

>>13346878
Still waiting for a good answer fascists.

>> No.13348035

>>13348012
I was talking about the murderers, not about Mussolini.

>> No.13348089

>wants to be told what to do
>happy to die for Israel
>knows he is being used and welcomes abuse

wait a minute isn't fascist just another word for cuck??

>> No.13348108

>>13347922
The economy isn't especially unique, and that is my point. The economy was unsustainable because of the military investment, not because it had some specific nature that required military investment. You were trying to say that fascist economics necessarily lead to hypermilitarization and I'm saying that's total bullshit.

The appealing aspect of fascist economics is the explicit ideological opposition to both -international- socialism and to laissez-faire capitalism. It seeks to reign in the extremes and subordinate economic activity to the people and character of the nation.

>> No.13348119

>>13347994
>Literally started the mystic fascist school and taught Mussolini

>> No.13348130

>>13347385
>misusing neoliberal
Both are suicide and cuckoldry. It's not a question of liberal vs fascist.

>> No.13348133

>>13347745
bruh you do realize the clearest distinction between fascism and nazism is that nazism believes in the discrimination of inferior races

>> No.13348137

>>13347758
It's true, though. Why would you want to live in a dictatorship like a cuck?

>> No.13348144

>>13348108
But in attempting to curb excess it becomes excess all its own. What happens when you sacrifice all accountability on the altar of opposing vocal evils? You become a great one.

>> No.13348150

>>13348014
The answer is that you're stupid. Fascism is predominantly capitalist in practice and views class hierarchy as something normal and healthy instead of stoking and preying upon class conflict. You haven't read anything.

>> No.13348174

>>13348150
>views class hierarchy as something normal and healthy
lmao imagine believing fascism strives for a natural hierarchy instead of one that's artificially imposed by those in power.

>> No.13348225

>>13347829
how is 10th grade

>> No.13348228

>>13348174
>lmao imagine
You're unfortunately a faggot. And hieararchy is perfectly normal, you can't name even a single example of a complex society without hierarchy.

>> No.13348235

>>13348144
Indeed, the threat of corruption exists for any imaginable system. I don't believe in utopia. We have plenty of courrption and lack of accountability now. In some sense, an authoritarian regime is far more accountable because they have no possible excuses or deflection... They hold the reigns. That said, I'm not interested in empowering a government that just goes around murdering people (although I do think some conflict is inevitable), and I reject the narrative that fascism must lead to such a situation.

>> No.13348239

>>13346848
All three were close to being NEETs before coming to power desu

>> No.13348269

>>13348089
>fascism = supporting trump

>> No.13348310

>>13346848
Goebbels was your average /pol/tard or /r9k/er

>> No.13348319

>>13346006
>nobody cares about fascism
lol

>> No.13348336

>>13348174
It would be a lot more natural than the gynocentric and 'diversity' driven distribution we have now as imposed by those in power.

>> No.13348349

>>13346880
>And none of the communinsts you know have read anything by Marx. They call themselves communists because they saw "GAY SPACE COMMUNISM" on Tumblr or Reddit.
If you were to cut out all the other communists then youd be left with absolutely no one except a couple of leftcoms who keep jacking off into Capital and irrelevant literature written by Bordiga a century ago. If those are the only 'true' communists then communism is extremely dead.

>> No.13348351

>>13348119
Mussolini owned more to heterodox marxism than to Evola's Traditionalism. Read Evola's comments on fascism. Most of the fascists had issues with Evola. The national socialists hated him. The SS warned its members against his subversive influences. The history of third positionism is very complex.

>> No.13348353

>>13347745
>then why are all the fascist figures of the 21st century only ever talking about that?

Everybody talks about it. Capitalists, communists, and fascists as well. You have commies and capitalists who are in favor of ethnonationalism when it's for certain ethnicities, and fascists when it's in favor of others.

>> No.13348360

>>13348351
Evola is beyond useless for trying to create anything practical

>> No.13348362

>>13348174
That is exactly what fascism does. It is a key concept of theoretical fascism.

>> No.13348369

Convincing people instead of letting them walk into an oven is SO not fascist

>> No.13348379

>>13348360
Everything he created has a pratical dimension. His silent revolution offers a valid and functional praxis to the modern age.

>> No.13348393

>>13347745
Who is an authentic fascist today? Your problem is that you confuse national socialism with fascism. National socialism is a German idiosyncrasy that emerges out of very specific contingent conditions in the immediate post-war ferment of radical Weimar street politics. Fascism is essentially a nationalist recasting of Sorelian syndicalism. Superficial similarities aside, the alliance between Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany was not as obvious at the time as it appears in hindsight.

>> No.13348458
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13348458

>>13348174
>Every civilization and tribe since the dawn of time have been strongly hierarchical
>the only exceptions were a couple of extremely short-lived anarchist experiments that were easily crushed by fascists and communists
>"Hurr hierarchy isn't normal and healthy"

>> No.13348496

>>13346878
there is never a thing or object, there is a perception of that thing or object which you project ideas onto that make it seem more fixed and solid than it actually is. if you actually believe in materialism you've probably never thought for yourself for more than 5 minutes at a time.

>> No.13348515

>>13348496
What is perception of then?

>> No.13348534
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13348534

>>13345861
Ezra Pound is that you?

>> No.13348562

>>13345878
Retard.

Read Evola

>> No.13348573

>>13348562
Give me 2 reasons I should read him and not disregard him as some heterodox philosopher?

>> No.13348665

>>13346862
not how guild socialism/fascism works buddy

>> No.13348736

>persisting in the Political Economy, in the truest sense of both words
read Baudrillard

>> No.13348744

>>13345870
All ideologies are memes.
What did you think memes are, cat pictures with captions?

>> No.13348764

>>13345969
This is a good definition

>> No.13348818

>imagine thinking that your worthless life is bigger and more important than the state itself
individualism is a capitalist weapon used for atomized and destroy healthy society for the sake of "humans" lives and pursuit of "happiness"

>> No.13349148

biggest problem with this thread is that OP never did this outside of his own head

>> No.13349365

>>13348336
>people immigrating to different geographic locations is unnatural, but dictatorships are totally normal bro
Cringe. Commit suicide.
>>13348458
There's a hierarchy right now. The problem is not in the hierarchies but rather the idea of a retarded dictatorship, which is basically one step away from a monarchy. Fascism is strictly for delusional sheep.

>> No.13349367

>>13349365
affirmative action is unnatural, so is disarming the population so they cant defend themselves against 80IQ retards

>> No.13349372

>be nobody
>don't care about your gay politics
checkmate, chucklenuts

>> No.13349392

>>13349367
Appeal to nature. Not an argument.

>> No.13349393

>>13349392
you colossal nigger, I was responding to a post that contains the word 'unnatural' used in the exact same way.

>> No.13349398

>>13345861
>convince leftists to be fascist
Like showing them the glove they’ve always been wearing fits on the other hand.

>> No.13349417

>>13349393
Not really. I wasn't judging them as better or worse than the other in the first place. I was merely pointing the double standards you use when it favours your argument.

>> No.13349422

>>13349417
What double standard was that

>> No.13349427

>>13349417
And I was explaining why your point was wrong It's not just 'migration', there is an entire state apparatus set up in retarded fashion.

Also you are undoubtedly a double nigger who will refuse to deal with the reality of race differences

>> No.13349436

>>13349427
Lefties are such reactionaries aren’t they? Living in the past, refusing to accept the science of race and iq.

>> No.13349459

>>13346121
ell em eff ayy oh

>> No.13349472

>>13349427
>Also you are undoubtedly a double nigger who will refuse to deal with the reality of race differences
That's a big presumption. I'm actually well-aware of race differences. Niggers should be eliminated from the face of the planet earth or be left to rot in Africa but America is the most niggerloving country in the world. Can't believe they (you?) faggots killed the Natives but let the NIGGERS live lmao worst deal ever made and the Yurofags are following suit now. Simply pathetic.
>And I was explaining why your point was wrong It's not just 'migration', there is an entire state apparatus set up in retarded fashion.
Yeah, it sucks. But it doesn't have to be one or the other. It's not what you're complaining about vs fascism. The thing I'm fighting is fascism, but I'm not defeding gyno bullshit. Legal immigration shouldn't be frowned upon, though. Some faggots here are too radical. A fucking dictatorship. For fuck's sake.

>> No.13349482

>>13349472
>Legal immigration shouldn't be frowned upon, though.
go back to ribbit

>> No.13349488

>>13349482
Name one bad thing with legal immigration, you Kim Jong-un wannabe.

>> No.13349493

>>13349488
>Name one bad thing with legal immigration
race mixing, for starters

>> No.13349499

>>13345939
fascism is a revolutionary psuedo-populist (volkisch) movement that appeals more to disaffected working class members than it does elites.
am i reading this right
>more than it does elites
that's really disarming amounts of dumb. it made sense once i got to the part where you think rich aryans will purge the jews and make things great for the rest of us, and by made sense i mean that it explained your craziness, not that it actual sense was made

>> No.13349518
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13349518

>>13346502
You're entirely correct, unfortunately. I'm one of the 'real communists' and I've never met someone my ideology. I'm not at home with leftists who are pro-immigration, man-hating etc nor am I at home with right wingers who are happy living in a capitalist dystopia. Feels bad desu.

>> No.13349524

>>13348744
I know what you mean, and I approve.

>> No.13349538

>>13349493
That's a consequence of both parties, though. Unless there's rape, but in most racemixing cases it isn't. Either your women are whores or your men are retards. If we're talking America, it wouldn't have existed without immigrants. Literally everyone but the Natives and the Mexicans is foreign to those lands. However if you care so much about what people do with their genitalia you could only let in married people. Immigration, either legal or illegal, is the cornerstone of America.

>> No.13349552

>>13349518
What's even the point of meddling with the Middle East? Oil?

>> No.13349569

>>13349552
That and getting rid of a poisonous and harmful ideology. Realistically though a direct invasion is not worth the risk of wasting trillions and getting many of your own people killed only to destabilize the region and increase terrorism.

>> No.13349578

>>13349569
But didn't the Americans literally create ISIS? What's even the endgame of those ham-fisted clowns?

>> No.13349588

>>13349538
>Immigration, either legal or illegal, is the cornerstone of America
ask me how i know you're ellis island trash

>> No.13349638

>>13349588
I'm not even from America or in America, sweatie. But do continue. I'm all ears.

>> No.13349928

>>13349638
oh whatever then, i dont care about your opinion on my country

>> No.13349946

>>13349578
they basically just do what Israel wants them to

>> No.13350072

i've never seen anti-fascists so thoroughly btfo as i have in this thread

>> No.13350124

daily reminder that fascist countries only failed because of nazi germany's imperialism, apart from that they were generally quite successful

>> No.13350145

>>13350124
this. liberalism is cancer. pax americana will fold sooner rather than later.

>> No.13350172

>>13345861
>they wrote thinking it would dissuade people like me from fascist ideas and oppressive power structures

Imagine actually believing this.

>> No.13350204

and so? stupid nazxi cunt convince me.
Science says that race-mixing makes better humans.

>> No.13350337

>>13345969
Hello Mr. Griffin, how are you today?

>> No.13350351

>>13350124
any examples?

>> No.13350409
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13350409

>read Homage to Catalonia
>literally not even once in 250+ pages does Orwell critique/explain why Fascism is bad or why he's fighting for the communists against it other then 'to fight fascism'
Why can't anti-fascists justify their stance on the ideology?

>> No.13350414

>>13349928
classic burger

>> No.13350440

>>13349493
Race mixing can happen without immigration be it legal or illegal... Not everyone in America is white nor have they always been

>> No.13350541

>>13350351
italy

>> No.13350752

>>13347011
Are you one of those guys that just considers fascism to be the economic planning of Mosley?

>> No.13350832

>>13350752
Fascism is rooted expressly in autarkic class collaborationist corporatism. It's literally the only unifying feature, it's just fucking silly to imagine that anti-Semitism/aryanism/Ostsiedlung or whatever is the core of an ideology made by a swarthy Italian dude

>> No.13350876

>>13350832
oh haha yeah you're one of those retards

>> No.13350895
File: 36 KB, 590x231, mussolini-quote.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13350895

>>13350876

>> No.13350906

>>13350876
neck yourself useless faggot

>> No.13350919

>>13345878
good post

>> No.13351064

>>13347302
Perón wasn't fascist but he could've been, he was a banana republic president that shifted sides whenever he needed (ie plotting with commies to create unrest after his exile)

t. argie

>> No.13351134

>>13346905
>the Koch brothers, are funding far right parties
such as

>> No.13351233

>>13345892
>Hannah Montana
Literally who?

>> No.13352163

>>13349569

> getting rid of a poisonous and harmful ideology

Values exist within a transcendental realm. They can not be fought, or destroyed with the end of a bayonet.

>> No.13352197

>>13350895
>>13350906
It's like you retards don't understand that we use the term fascism to describe the nationalist revolutionaries of the early 20th century not the specified pseudo-syndicalist economics of a failed movement and the sidekick. But no, I know you just like being different and so insist you're a fascist but fascism is really just about mundane economics.

>> No.13352211

>>13345939
but not all fascists are Strasserists lmao.

>> No.13352351

>>13352197
>I, it's detractor, decide what fascism is. Not fascists.

>> No.13352354

>>13352163
Tell that to the countless groups of people who have been wiped out and forgotten throughout history by superior cultures.

>> No.13352364

>>13352351
I am a fascist, and if you read more than at the most superficial level and propaganda pamphlets you might actually understand your own ideology.

>> No.13352383

>>13352354
People cease to exist, values don't. Brainlet.

>> No.13352409

>>13345861
Based OP.

>>13345878
Incredibly wrong.

>> No.13352446
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13352446

>>13352364
Big talk, now go into detail.
I'm tired of PrußianWolf1488 faggots claiming the entire mantle of fascism based on nothing more than some vague ethnonationalist sentiments.

>> No.13352644

>>13352446
Considering you're only response to me was "detractor" I don't really see anything to respond too.

>> No.13352676

>>13352644
Refer back to >>13352197 which quoted >>13350895 Big Man Mussolini himself, who apparently doesn't count as a Fascist

>> No.13352722

>>13346848
Hitler was literally a NEET in his youth and Goebbels would browse /pol/ were he alive at this time.

>> No.13352752

>>13347286
Unironically perfect ideology

>> No.13352790

>>13345923
sounds like radical centrism to me

>> No.13352792

>>13352752
omfg ur going to kill all the brown people!!1!

>> No.13352806

>>13352722
Good point

>> No.13352817

>>13350541
lmao not really

>> No.13352851

>>13347758
t. cuck

>> No.13352869

>>13352676
>not the specified pseudo-syndicalist economics of a failed movement and the sidekick

do you understand what I'm saying? the specific economics of one form of fascism does not correlate as the definition for fascism, you can have a state socialist economic apparatus and still be fascist

>> No.13352886

>>13345861
Fascism is, to my understanding, fundamentally putting the Government at greater importance than the individual. Can also involve viewing the Government as a sort of Godly power in and of itself, the single most important thing in the entire society, the reason for anything good and beneficial that may happen.

This is different from Communism in which the power is supposedly put into the hands of the people as a collective with the element of the individual needing to be snuffed out, especially if any individual is doing better than those in the collective a la the Kulaks.

Then, also, this is different from Capitalism in which the individual is the most important, where there's individual freedom and liberty AND RESPONSIBILITY. If you fail, you pay the price, you and you alone. Pure Capitalism with no Socialist elements would very much be like Darwinism where those who work, eat, and those who do not work, are left to starve, for even handing a couple dollars to a panhandler on the street is a small form of Socialism because it is a small redistribution of wealth. Someone who has, even if they only have a LITTLE more, giving to someone who allegedly has not. I'm very lower-class but I've given money on the street on several occasions.

Ultimately, Capitalism still seems like the only correct way to go, with some RESTRICTED AND MONITORED Socialist elements to keep the poorest from starving to death and sleeping in the streets. I myself would have been a street person at different point of my life, if not for homeless shelters and welfare. So I see the importance of Socialist programs, but I also see that without a FIRM FOUNDATION of Capitalism to produce excess, the Socialist programs could not be supported, and so the entire system would fall and people would starve.

>> No.13352938

>>13352869
On who's authority do you make this claim?
Fascism by every model from the Estado Novo to the Austrofascists had this commonality: the attempted liberation of their country from international finance capitalism and the collaboration of all classes within the nation. This is precisely the aim and origin of Giovanni Gentile's doctrine and why it's ridiculous to imagine Julius "A Traditionalist Confronts Fascism" Evola or what have you as having the soul of fascism.

>> No.13352961

>>13346905
American "left/right" can't be reliably mapped onto traditional non-American conceptions of left-right. In the US the right are lolbertarians and the left are theocrats who denounced God as a bigot sometime around 1968. There's almost no continuity between say Nazism and Confederate apologia beyond "brown man bad".

>> No.13353003

>>13349552
Protecting Israel mostly nowadays. The US didn't really get any oil from the Iraq war. The long term strategy outlined decades ago was to hit Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Libya, Lebanon and Somalia (I think) and then take out Iran as the grand finale after encircling it. There's no logic behind a global superpower doing this, because you'd want a balance of powee in the Middle East and good relations with the Muslims. American support for Israel accomplishes neither.

>> No.13353214

>>13352197
>but socialism was never real socialism

>> No.13353222

>>13345861

/pol/

>> No.13353782

>>13345892
This, but in a good way

>> No.13355898

>>13345892
got a loud chuckle out of me

>> No.13355909
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13355909

>>13345892
Oh fucking Kek

>> No.13355923

>>13345892
That would make Socialism the equivalent of a teenage girl wishing all the pretty girls became ugly

>> No.13355943

>>13350895
that is a false quote. not everything you find online written on a picture is true

>> No.13355968

>>13345892
Could you BE any more Freudian? Fuck outta here fag

>> No.13356066

Phew the commies really shit the bed itt

>> No.13356067

>>13346018
Read Moldbug cuckservative.

>> No.13356089

>>13355968
SEETHING. It's also for people who just want to be daddied

>> No.13356096

>>13355923
Nice

>> No.13356106

>>13355898
>>13355909
cringy samefag

>> No.13356113
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13356113

>>13356067
>conservative is the same as right-wing

>> No.13356128

>>13351134
>George Soros, is funding far left parties
such as

>> No.13356131

>>13356113
Abort yourself

>> No.13356623

>>13345892
Absolute 10/10 post.

Fascists faggots BTFO

>> No.13356635

>>13345878
>fascism is about power and not security
>fascism is about money and not order
you fucking dipshit