Start with the Greeks

[Anonymous No.13325363]

Which of the two 'start with the greeks' meme charts is better? And do you, personally, have any changes you'd make?

[Anonymous No.13325366]

>>13325363
Other one. I'm not sure whether this one is a continuation on the first or whether the first is a streamlined version of this.

[Anonymous No.13325375]

I don’t know but I’m in the same boat as you, I have both those charts. I decided to start with the Edith Hamilton book and go from there. Obviously the big one is more inclusive but let’s be honest if you’re following any chart too close you’re autistic and missing the point. My approach is gonna be
>Hamilton
>Iliad+odyssey
>supplemental history book
>plays
>ancient history book like Herodotus
>Plato

And then call it a good start, but read others as I see fit. Also, despite the hate on this board, I’m going to read the Fagles versions because, a) they do seem like a decent-good version despite all the contrarians and b) that’s what most normies read in school so I’ll understand the impact it has on my peers better. You can always read different translations later

[Anonymous No.13325379]

>>13325375
t. incel

[Anonymous No.13325381]

>>13325379
have sex

[Anonymous No.13325388]

>>13325363
Don't believe in charts. I started at the age of eight with this delightful comic.

[Anonymous No.13325463]

>>13325363
These charts aren't a science, but give you an overview on how to start with the Greeks. Don't take it to seriously though and read other stuff. Not every piece of literature references Greek thought, for example you can read 1984 without starting with the Greeks.
It's a meme, but a good one. I prefer this chart though, How To Read a Book is a great book for those who want to delve deeper into literature.

[Anonymous No.13325483]

>>13325463
Imagine actually following this advice and reading a grammar book as a native speaker in your 20s.

[Anonymous No.13325484]

>>13325363
Just read first few pages of Mythology and you'll be ready for Plato's complete works

[Anonymous No.13325563]

now then

[Anonymous No.13325571]

>>13325363
>>13325484

Yeah read Greek mythology

[Anonymous No.13325582]

>>13325363
Original one. And you don't really need to read The Histories unless you're really interested in the history of Ancient Greece. You don't REALLY need to read Mythology either, but it's a nice introduction.

[Anonymous No.13325590]

>>13325582
i don't think it's even a nice introduction, to be honest

[Anonymous No.13325592]

>>13325483
What's the issue? English is my fourth language anyway, so following this chart seems good for someone like me.

[Anonymous No.13325596]

>>13325590
Just because she's a woman? The book is good imo

[Anonymous No.13325612]

>>13325590
It cover all important myths and characters and is, as a bonus, somewhat of a literary hallmark when it comes to the study of Ancient Greece. What more can you want?

[Anonymous No.13325628]

>>13325592
Can you provide advice for learning languages? Any courses or specific resources you'd recommend? Or did you learn it all in school?

[Anonymous No.13325634]

gonna use this thread to ask you guys about Madeline Miller, some people recommended me her books. has anyone here read them?

[Anonymous No.13325639]

>>13325363
Why is Robert Fagles' translation recommended in this chart? I tried asking 2 days ago but I didn't get any kind of answer. Does it really matter which translation you read? I just want to most comprehensive one.

[Anonymous No.13325680]

>>13325596
course not

[Anonymous No.13325692]

>>13325634
Her books are fine as entertainment, but are about as relevant to "starting with the greeks" as any random piece of neoclassical literature.

[Anonymous No.13325710]

>>13325612
To be contrarian

[Anonymous No.13325712]

I want to read some plays, but when I look up collections (Four Plays by Aristophanes, for example) they all seem to be botched in various ways. Either to much editing by the translator or strange decisions like having the Spartans speak with a Scottish accent. What are your recommendations?

[Anonymous No.13325716]

>>13325612
The realisation that most translations have a passable index of names. To be honest you can learn Greek myth by osmosis like the rest of human civilisation before the great mania for dictionaries on the most minute subjects. It's a hang over from the era of manner primers.

[Anonymous No.13325733]

>>13325634
They're fun, it's always good to see someone else's perspective of a character from Greek myth because we can't spend all our time debating about whether Odysseus was a cunt or not and I got a bit of a hard on. All you can want or expect out of historical fiction.

[Anonymous No.13325744]

>>13325716
True enough, but I don't see how it not being an absolute must read takes away from it being a nice introduction.

[Anonymous No.13325836]

[Anonymous No.13325837]

>>13325836
>fagles iliad
>fagles odyssey
nobody listens.

[Anonymous No.13325841]

>>13325837
I've read Lattimore too, the difference isn't big enough to get your panties in a bunch

[Anonymous No.13325850]

>>13325841
i take it you haven't got to the odyssey yet. and lattimore wouldn't be my first choice either

[Anonymous No.13325864]

>>13325850
Iliad 3 times and odyssey twice (Fitzgerald in high school)

[Anonymous No.13325877]

>>13325864
and you didn't pick up on fagles missing all over the place with the odyssey?

[Anonymous No.13325904]

>>13325877
There were a few cases of a dumb phrase or modern idiom, but on the whole it's decent enough.

[Anonymous No.13326020]

>>13325837
>>13325841
pls respond to>>13325639

[Anonymous No.13326037]

>>13325837
Contrarian. Fagles is a good translation by anyone’s stretch, being popular is not a bad thing. Considering it’s the most widely read that’s actually good as you can thus appreciate the impact it’s had on our society.

[Anonymous No.13326064]

>>13326020
It's very readable. Guaranteed fagles knows more about Greek language, Greek history and Homer than you or anyone on this website.

[Anonymous No.13326074]

>>13325692
>>13325733

alright, I guess I'm gonna start with the song of achilles. thanks.

[Anonymous No.13326079]

Use my list.

Plays, histories, and Pre-Socratics can be read simultaneously.

[Anonymous No.13326087]

>>13326079
oh and supplement as you go with this https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL023BCE5134243987

[Anonymous No.13326108]

>>13326064
Well I'd hope so, that's why I'm asking. I'm reading Mythology and was going to pick up the Iliad soon. Just wondering what version to get.

[Anonymous No.13326130]

>>13326020
you'll want these >>13325563
and you needn't read hamilton's book beforehand.

[Anonymous No.13326145]

Why is Xenophon's Hellenica never recommended? Is it really that much worse than Thucydides?

[Anonymous No.13326164]

>>13326145
It's necessary to finish the history of the peloponesian war. Anabasis is even better. His history of Cyrus the great is good too.

[Anonymous No.13327621]

I recently found a copy of the Robert Fagles Translation of the Iliad.
Is the 60 page introduction really necessary or important?
Should I skip it or not?
Also could anyone suggest any better translations if you think there are better ones?

[Anonymous No.13327867]

>>13325463
Does the "How to Read a Book" book apply to other languages? Or is it especially tailored to English literature?

English is my second language and I read a lot of stuff in Spanish too.

[Anonymous No.13327964]

>>13327621
Introductions are almost always worth it unless you're only reading for pseud points and Goodreads highscores.

[Anonymous No.13328013]

>>13327621
That intro essay is worth reading a subpar translation for

[Anonymous No.13328046]

>>13327621
they are necessary. if someones writing the 150th translation of the iliad into english, he has to explain himself. but it's your first time reading the iliad, no you don't need to read it. though it will offer insight into the translation process which is good to know.

i'd reccomend butler's iliad. or >>13325563

[Anonymous No.13328075]

>>13327867
>Does the "How to Read a Book" book apply to other languages?
Yes it does, it has a focus on the western canon but these include books written in Spanish. The book focuses on different modes of reading and how to successfully engage with masterpieces of literature.

[Anonymous No.13328799]

>>13325628
not him but since the pareto principle applies go about it like this
1. learn the most common words in the language (top 1000, top 500, top 300 just get started
2. study basic grammar
3. observe the language (read it, listen to native speakers, watch TV shows in that language with subs in the same language when you're a nerd
???
?. be fluent