/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13316792]

What is rebellious modern-day? What is the new punk, the next youth movement (now that it is all commodified, “rebellious” in product form) Where is this cultural haven if it exists? Or have we surpassed these sorts of subversive strivings in society, perhaps even gone full circle to where we actually desire a return to what once was (suburb, loving spouse, house, car, kids, stable job, weekend outings and the likes)

Is there anything?

[Anonymous No.13316793]

the alt right

[Anonymous No.13316806]

Traditionalism is the most revolutionary ideology of our times

[Anonymous No.13316809]

>>13316793
AHAHAHAHAHHHHAAAA
AHAHAHAHAHAHHA
HES SERIOUS
AAHHHHHHHHHHHH

The alt right is basically pulling down your pants sticking it in front of israel and saying do what you want master

[Anonymous No.13316812]

>>13316792
Punk is about saying FUCK YOU
It’s 100% American. It’s the child of the father who witnessed the hypocrisy of the Vietnam war, social lies and manipulations of institutions. The child says FUCK YOU. And when the Jew machine says, yes, here are all you fuck you bands, and shirts and lifestyle, he says FUCK YOU again. And when his idiot friends are like yea, we are gonna start a movement around PUNK the child says again, FUCK YOU. Don’t you tell me what to do. Ain’t nobody know what’s good for me but me.
t. KING OF PUNK

[Anonymous No.13316814]

>youth movement

there isn't one, the kids are on their own

[Anonymous No.13316817]

Inqusition, i think we are in desperate need for a 3rd WW. Let's burn witches, sjws, alt rights, jews. Full edge.

[Anonymous No.13316822]

>>13316812
Sounds like some alt-right stuff, you wouldn't last a minute in the scene now grandpa.

[Anonymous No.13316823]

>>13316792
Anarcho-primitivism

[Anonymous No.13316828]

>>13316792
if its popular enough to be a movement or culture then it isn't rebellion. the closest thing you could get is Stirner.

[Anonymous No.13316832]

>>13316822
do modern punks make use of trigger warnings

[Anonymous No.13316833]

>>13316792
The new punk is the old punk. Rebellion, by definition, is not a self-subsisting principle; therefore, it is always dependent upon some other principle, which is, relatively, more original. But if one rebels, only to flee to another principle, say, one more original than that from which one rebelled, then one is not for rebellion itself, per se, but only desires to obey a different principle. Thus, one is not against authority, and the rebel can never really rebel against authority, because he eternally posits it insofar as he is a rebel. The punk, in other words, the prodigal son, always owes everything he has to the originating principle. He can never choose to subsist on his own, independent of any power above or over him. If, seeing this, he destroys himself, in an effort to rebel to such an extent that he really liberates himself from the origin, then he becomes nothing.

One might argue that this act itself is really original, and that this is how the punk truly circumvents the will of his father, who wishes him to be something--the punk thereby opposing this by aiming to be nothing--this very willing, I say, is something positive, something which desires to be, and thus, the punk betrays the very same wish, the very same principle which drove his father to set a course for him. Therefore, the rebel cannot help but posit the very authority, the very idea of self-subsistence from which he tried to differentiate himself completely. For there is only one self-subsisting thing, only one power which also begets itself, and all rebellion is vanity.

[Anonymous No.13316838]

>>13316792
The internet destroyed youth movements. Social media gives kids and adolescents their positive reinforcement nowadays so there's no need for the niche social groups required.

[Anonymous No.13316841]

I think 'teenage rebellion' has been effectively replaced with 2-6 years of abjection, mental illness, and self-destruction caused by realising the horror of the institution

[Anonymous No.13316842]

nationalism is the new punk rock

[Anonymous No.13316858]

>>13316822
>the scene
Real punk is an event. There is no scene scene kid. You belong to hot topic Jew culture kid. How are youre scene points doing? Have you got your uniform ready? FUCK YOU

[Anonymous No.13316899]

mike was the only real punk

[Anonymous No.13316921]

>>13316792
The bourgeois have no need for rebellion.

[Anonymous No.13316931]

>>13316822
Punk is dead

[Anonymous No.13316946]

>>13316812
>It’s 100% American.
all well-known punk was born in Britain

[Anonymous No.13316972]

>>13316833
The only tyrant in the world, therefore, is the rebel--for every rebel is, in disguise, a usurper. What's more, the more the rebel, the less substance there is in their argument; the more they represent chaos and destruction. But this cannot be so! For they always remain convinced that they are original and creative, and alone hold the keys to the fountain of eternal youth! Rebellion never sees itself as decay--it always believes itself to be regeneration, and it destroys only insofar as it has future health in mind. In its heart it is not pure disease, pure chaos; these do not exist unalloyed in our world; that is why it must always characterize the regime as diseased and corrupted, and itself possessing lost love in its bosom, protected from contamination. Such a belief gives boldness to its actions, a seeming justification for every accusation and feeling of spite.

Yet it can never attain its goal, for the very reason that it does not possess that which it believes it has: love and justice. These latter are not on the side of the rebel, but only on the side of sincerity and compunction. The rebel can never be allied with these in actuality, because its self-designation is a falsehood, a deception, and a dubious lie. It is the lie--the only lie that there is. It is vanity and egotism and nothing less. It is demonic, in truth. It posits a structure divided against itself, doomed to fail, impossible to sustain, because the monster of contradiction plagues it so soon as vanity gives birth to it. There is no attainment through rebellion. Rebellion is the only sin.

[Anonymous No.13316993]

>>13316833
You seem to be getting at something but the center of it is getting tangled in my brain.let

Rebel = not rebel, rather, an obeyer
Punk = not obeyer = (authentic) rebel & some freudian shit >> is nothin, thus all rebellion is vanity


Huh

[Anonymous No.13317082]

>>13316993
The punk and the rebel are too words for the same thing. They stand for the same principle, i.e., the principle of rejection, of re-positing or renewal. But notice I cannot reject without "standing" for rejection, and this standing is the same as positing. There is no "authentic" non-standing, i.e., a complete rejection of stance in general, because authenticity is consistency, generation, authorship, and it has this in common with author-ity, which cannot be what it is if it is what the rebel says it is, namely, deceitful, oppressive, unjust, etc. Authority, if it is consistent with its name, must be just and true and self-subsisting. But the punk wants to rebel against authority in general, but is he not the author, the authority, an authority, a particular representative of authority in his rebellion? Therefore, the rebel tries to be his own father, whilst rejecting fatherhood in general. By no act could he slay himself more than he already has by identifying as a rebel! His suicide is a consequence of the contradiction which he has taken upon himself. It is his own vanity, not the authority, the regime, the system, which finally kills him. Vanity kills him, and nothing else, precisely because he will not admit the the fact that he stands upon, relies on for support until his last breath, the very thing he condemns. He never for a moment subsists without it. The deeper he falls, the more he turns his wrath, his spite upon the thing sustaining him, and this spite kills him, because he spends everything upon severing himself from the source of good, and gives himself to a demonic principle, namely, spite, rebellion, until it claims his life, effortlessly, by means of the world's one, great seduction: the seduction of the ego, the self which denies every father, every authority and posits itself as the sole author of its destiny. But it has already killed authorship, authenticity by allying itself with spite, and therefore, when it at last tries to take its triumphant step onto self-generated soil, it finds that it has really produced nothing, no ground, and falls into the abyss.

[Anonymous No.13317108]

>>13316833
>>13316993
>>13317082

>google search
>yields no results

[Anonymous No.13317166]

>>13316946
Punk is NYC Ramones (real fans will say VU and I’d agree)
It developed in DC with Minor Threat and Bad Brains
100% American Made baby

[Anonymous No.13317167]

>>13316899
Spot the punk, win a song or answer to a question.
t. twenty years listening to hardcore punk, although dropped out of the scene a while back

[Anonymous No.13317174]

>>13317167
Haha nice. This is what I mean. Real punks look like cereal killers/retired authors

[Anonymous No.13317205]

>>13317174
When I was a kid a guy from a local band always said that all the fashion was unnecessary and they would sometimes make fun of the fashion punks by forming a rooster hawk on their heads with their hands.
I think he was right for the most part, although I met some of the kids with mohawks who were legit. Generally the crust punks or some other group into the obscure shit.
https://youtu.be/4lQI-Tikwz0

[Anonymous No.13317231]

>>13317082
>Authority, if it is consistent with its name, must be just and true and self-subsisting
What

[Anonymous No.13317243]

>>13317205
Yea i was taken aback by how genuinely nice and sweet people in the hardcore scenes could be. It’s absolutely necessary. I think the catharsis has prevented a lot of terrible things that would have happened if they were suppressed

https://youtu.be/1xKdKaAjw-o

[Anonymous No.13317247]

>>13317166
>>13316946
The general feeling is that England, America, and Sweden are equally the creators of hardcore punk.
https://youtu.be/LAy4PkBHdSs

[Anonymous No.13317251]

>>13316792
What is rebellious in an age like this is living selflessly

[Anonymous No.13317261]

>>13316792
Rebellion is a commodity these days. Shit sells t-shirts.

[Anonymous No.13317262]

>>13316809
cringe

[Anonymous No.13317277]

>>13316792
>Is there anything?
Gaming is the new counter-culture

[Anonymous No.13317279]

>>13317247
Fuck yea. I was surprised by Sweden.
https://youtu.be/5xoKJtA1UEQ

Japan goes hard too
https://youtu.be/xZr6ELSYHlM

[Anonymous No.13317283]

>>13316792
NEETism, unironically.

[Anonymous No.13317288]

>>13317247
I feel like the last real punk event was the locust in San Diego. Everything else is recording now and playing on old themes.
https://youtu.be/loB29Ki17J0

I been getting into a lot more noise nowadays

[Anonymous No.13317290]

>>13316792
>What is rebellious modern-day? What is the new punk?
staying true to yourself despite what society says.
Here's tom delonge explaining it at 1:16:40
https://youtu.be/tuM2ecrsRpk?t=4603

[Anonymous No.13317304]

>>13316833
>>13316972
>>13317082
What influences did you draw from for this view of authority and rebellion?

[Anonymous No.13317306]

>>13317290
His spaceship program is hilarious. I wish it was a joke

[Anonymous No.13317310]

>>13316792
New punk is NOT going to jail. Fuck that. Never going back. I SWEAR IM A GOOD BOY!!!!

[Anonymous No.13317317]

>>13316823

Yeah, but cave spiders are scary.

[Anonymous No.13317356]

>>13317277

COD is ancient? LOL! What does that make me, still stuck on my Stuper Pretendo games? Also, don't exactly think walking around a virtual world killing a bunch of virtual people over and over is exactly counterculture. I'd say that's pretty mainstream actually these days.

[Anonymous No.13317362]

>>13316792
Anti-political-correctness; anti-censorship; anti-diversity-is-our-strength rhetoric; rejection of the hypocrisy of current mainstream movements that ostensibly oppose racism and sexism while in reality promoting it; free speech absolutism; rejection of anti-intellectualism, especially of the flavour that's begun to dominate academia, journalism, and art criticism.

[Anonymous No.13317367]

>>13317362
Also sincerity.

[Anonymous No.13317385]

>>13316792
Agape Hardcore

[Anonymous No.13317401]

>>13317362
>see, we rebel by reverting back to the status quo
kek

[Anonymous No.13317427]

Pop culture extremism that denies deeper forms of meaning or morality. People like lil xan, six nine, etc.

This is what's probably closest in terms of ideology to punk these days.

[Anonymous No.13317440]

>>13317427
This is the Jew capitalist machine.

punk now is comic/sincerity- Ariel pink, John Maus, Daniel Johnston

[Anonymous No.13317442]

>>13317362
All of the people who promote those things are the most popular people in existence. They are getting the views, and pulling in the numbers. They do this with very little opposition except by vocal minorities.

Ben Shapiro is in no way punk or rebellious. Not to disparage him, he strikes me as a cool enough fellow. But it isn't rebellious or punk.

Ironically enough free speech is a founding concept of American culture. Most Americans agree with free speech. At this point in time being anti-freespeech would probably be more rebellious.

[Anonymous No.13317453]

>>13316792
NEETdom is the pinnacle of rebellion.

[Anonymous No.13317455]

>>13316792
Renunciation of the material world is punk as fuck

[Anonymous No.13317463]

>>13316792
Conservatism is the new counter-culture.

[Anonymous No.13317464]

>>13317440

It's a weird balance. Under capitalism "rebellion" is always going to be consumerized. The opposition of capitalism is a product to be bought and sold.

I would say that the nihilistic efforts of mumble core rappers are equally embracing and shitting all over the machine by at least denying it any pretense of meaning.

[Anonymous No.13317470]

>>13317427
I like this take on it, I think you're right

[Anonymous No.13317477]

The greatest punk in all of western literature

[Anonymous No.13317481]

>>13317470

I think this gif is the most punk thing in this entire thread. I'm going to sell this Gif, put it on everything, make a shitload of money and ruin it for everyone

[Anonymous No.13317485]

>>13317356
jk3 is pretty punk and definitely not dead.

[Anonymous No.13317486]

>>13317470
Thank you for your kind words. Your gif has brought me great pleasure.

[Anonymous No.13317495]

>>13317442
Giving the middle finger to a corrupt establishment has been gaining popularity with young people... and? Punk gained popularity in the 70s in the same way. The movement I laid out is today's punk. It may become bigger faster because global culture spreads so quickly now, but it's still true.

[Anonymous No.13317496]

>>13317464
The smear on meaning and values is exactly what makes the machine more clear then ever. No one would have guessed that the machine was behind Woodstock and the Crack Epidemic, but that it blantatly now shoves those trends amidst auto and antidepressant commercials makes it peak. I’m not gonna lie lil pumps first mixtape was a new era, but that hockey fades when he got swallowed by the industry. He’s like a cartoon character, completely subsumed. The only people who avoided that was Tyler tc, lil ugly mane, and Chief keef somewhat

[Anonymous No.13317499]

>>13317427

[Anonymous No.13317505]

>>13317427
It's closer to the ideology but in context it's the exact opposite of punk today.

[Anonymous No.13317507]

>>13317499
Trash

[Anonymous No.13317510]

>>13317362
> boomer tier reaction to heavily exaggerated problems is rebellion
I bet you voted for Trump thinking that he will destroy the "deep state" and the psychic vampyre globalist cabals?

[Anonymous No.13317514]

>>13317288
I don't know. They were following what others created before them, not that that is necessarily bad. HHIG/Tragedy was quite significant.
https://youtu.be/6GCCUveWL_I
Plus Spazz. And there doesn't need to be innovation to be real movement, I don't think. Some of the same music existed for hundreds or thousands of years. Much of it is even coming back.

[Anonymous No.13317523]

>where is the next youth movement?

In the dumpster behind the abortion mill.

[Anonymous No.13317525]

>>13316792
this guy
https://twitter.com/xPizzaxSlutx/status/1113910319628341260

[Anonymous No.13317526]

Radical feminists are pretty punk rock. A bunch of primarily pissed off lesbians who hate consumer culture, commodification, and current popular notions of gender in academia.

Very few people like them, and they really don't give a damn. Yet they push very heavy for political aims.

Conservatives hate their feminism, and liberals hate them for being uptight and exclusionary.

It's pretty punk.

[Anonymous No.13317532]

All you fucks are sheltered autists. There's still plenty of punks out there. Like this >>13317427

[Anonymous No.13317535]

>>13317526
Punks aren't hippies. They shave. They cut their hair. They care about their appearance. In order to look good in a T shirt and skinny jeans you need to weigh less than 400 pounds.

[Anonymous No.13317537]

>>13317362
none of that is really properly transgressive. For the past 70 years if you want to by edgy just wave a swastika around, it doesn't get more counter-culture than that

[Anonymous No.13317542]

>>13317532
No. You would get drop kicked.
All those people are on strings

[Anonymous No.13317553]

>>13317532
>sixnine
Isnt this rainbow clown literally a police informant?

Besides which mystery meat yelling about their guns isn't edgy, it has sold millions of records for like 30 years now. The fucking president invited rappers to the whitehouse

[Anonymous No.13317559]

>>13317495
No, it is the establishment. Trump is the president, ben Shapiro is insanely popular, etc. It's not a growing youth movement. It's the majority.

Also, yesterday's punk is a product of Vivienne Westwood being really good at fashion and popularizing the mini-crini.

Punk was a pro-capitalist movement steeped in irony, and a nihilistic outlook when it came to the notion of greater meaning.

The closest thing we have to that now is lil xan.

[Anonymous No.13317561]

>>13317535
https://youtu.be/DZl8THDCfnE
You'll never catch us looking crusty
It's much more fun being sqeaky clean
Sportin' our hardcore bathtub pride
Me and Mr. bubble Moshin' side by side
Bust out the ivory
What is so punk about bein' stinky?
I don't need that offal in my face
What is so punk about smelling like a toilet?
Do us all a favor- FUCKING BATHE!
Mr. Clean has a warrant out for your arrest

[Anonymous No.13317565]

ITT: Everyone disagrees about what punk is, claims their philosophy is rebelling against everyone else's, and y'all need to watch SLC Punk.

[Anonymous No.13317576]

>>13317496
Punk has always been a nihilistic movement subsumed by capitalism and profit gain.

Vivienne Westwood claimed punk as a meaningless fashion movement and she was correct, as far as I can tell.

The trick to being "rebellious" is the denial of meaning rather than the denial of profit.

"Boonk gang" exhibiting anti-social tendencies while still participating in rampant consumerism. Thereby showing the extremes of envy and capitalistic gain is probably the closest we have to punk in the modern era.

Is it dumb? Yes. It's always been dumb though.

[Anonymous No.13317602]

Patience and kindness is always rebellious.

[Anonymous No.13317614]

>>13317576
>Punk has always been a nihilistic
No. It’s always been facist.
Johnny Ramone, Ian McKay, Glenn Danzig

[Anonymous No.13317619]

>>13316793
How? I've always been confused when Republicans say this

[Anonymous No.13317624]

punk cannot be punk

[Anonymous No.13317626]

>>13317485
very based

[Anonymous No.13317633]

>>13317565
So now we have 2 threads on /lit/ about anons arguing what punk truly is. Whenever I try to explain Plato/Socrates to friends I always use the platonic idea of punk.
>What is punk? Hoho! Is it anger at power? No! For the man trapped in an office hates his boss. Is it loud guitars? No! For pop music uses guitars at points! Is it their dress? No! For any child can wear doc martens! Then I ask again, what is punk?

[Anonymous No.13317658]

I think we can all agree /LIT/ is punk 2019

[Anonymous No.13317673]

>>13317619
it's a confusion of 'punk' with 'transgressive'. The neonazi segment of the altright are by far the edgiest people around just going by beliefs. But the punks were irreverent and nihilistic whereas nazis tend to be rather self-serious and moralistic

[Anonymous No.13317680]

>>13317633
Man trapped in office who hates his boss is the essence of punk though

Everyone in the hardcore scene had a shitty day job

Also why the fuck are people conflating anti-authority with contrarianism?

[Anonymous No.13317694]

g/acc
https://youtu.be/Fhz9LXX5AkE

[Anonymous No.13317697]

>>13317510
A rebellious spirit rebels instinctively against forces that reduce its autonomy by coercion. The authentic hippies felt it and acted against it, the authentic punks naturally identified it and acted against it, and the authentic anti-SJW has identified it and is acting against it. The rebellious act is going to take the form of whatever the coercive system necessitates at the time. Sometimes it may look romantic and beautiful, and other times it's Trump-tier ugly. Drone strikes aren't romantic or honorable like swords at dawn, but they’re also not interchangeably useful across time. The rebellious spirit isn't a contrivance that selects its targets and weapons based on aesthetics or popularity; knowing the enemy of liberty is instinctual and the methods of opposition will naturally be dictated by circumstances. Liberty spikes are obviously more visually striking and aesthetically appealing than a MAGA hat, but the purpose is the same.

[Anonymous No.13317710]

>>13317633
It's a capitalistic fashion movement pushed on idiot consumers on kings row in the mid 20th century. It's go nowhere mindless one-note consumable nihilism.

That's what punk is.

[Anonymous No.13317726]

>>13317559
Go back to r*ddit

[Anonymous No.13317731]

>>13317697
The hippies were a series of men who believed that a drop in traditional values and free love would widen the pussy pool for them. Communes has rules of power and patriarchal dimensions as much as the mainstream culture did.

Valerie Solanis was very clear on this. Read more.

[Anonymous No.13317749]

>>13317731
We're talking about different things. I'm obviously talking about the ideal examples of these movements and you're obviously talking about the bad actors. Both exist, but what you're saying is in no way a refutation of what I'm saying--it's an accurate addendum.

[Anonymous No.13317753]

>>13317673
National socialism isn't at all edgy once you strip away the strawmanning about genocide

[Anonymous No.13317768]

>>13316792
Just go ask the CIA for a list of stuff they are funding currently

[Anonymous No.13317778]

>>13316833
rebellion against what ?
Authority is subjective
just look at all the flags

anarchy is gay
statism is faggoty
are you a bi-bull ?

[Anonymous No.13317781]

>>13317749
The underlying male interest in the hippy movement has/was increase sexual stimuli. Do you mean some philosophical ideal?

With punk there was none of that. It was a fashion movement. Pure and simple.

With the hippy movement maybe you can call out some 60s cultural convergence of eastern and western cultures.

[Anonymous No.13317817]

>>13317768
This

The Zion a

[Anonymous No.13318027]

The only rebellious thing today is uncompromising communism.

Alt-right gets airtime on Fox News and millions of YouTube views from brainlets.

Islamists get funded by billionaires in Saudi Arabia and Qatar.

Being an open communist in many parts of the world (Peru, Colombia, Indonesia, etc) gets you death squadded/disappeared. Can't say the same for any other ideology.

[Anonymous No.13318120]

>>13316833
Damn

[Anonymous No.13318248]

>>13316792
extreme absurdism. in a society striving to find subtext in everything, consciously making up nonsense incomprehensible bullshit is an act of heroism.

[Anonymous No.13318264]

>>13316833
>>13316972

This is so fucking based. I want to save it but I’d rather find it starched to u do I have a blog? It’s a really well written idea anon good job

[Anonymous No.13318282]

>>13318264
Brainlet finds his pseud sensei. Romantic.

[Anonymous No.13318294]

>>13318282
> duuuude rebellion is not real
> you can't be against authority you just choose a bew authority bro

[Anonymous No.13318303]

>>13318294
faggot

[Anonymous No.13318315]

>>13318282
>>13318294

Yea see that your struggling you might wanna just find a YA thread

[Anonymous No.13318365]

>>13318294
Concise summary.

[Anonymous No.13318389]

>>13318365
but shitposting aside, the post i "summarized" fell into a dialectic trap, the poster discussing the true nature of rebellion ("choosing a new authority, inherently dependent upon another principle" etc) while ignoring the fact that rebellion is real and not a shallow act of simply doing the opposite.

[Anonymous No.13318419]

>>13317442
>All of the people who promote those things.
>Ben Shapiro
He doesn't really support these points though. He's definitepy not a free speech apsolutist, since he's supported the censorship of right wing extremists. The only people who sort of represent these principles, and are also in power are usually the ones who betray them the most.

[Anonymous No.13318431]

>>13316792
New punk? Saying nigger on the internet.

[Anonymous No.13318440]

>>13318027
>The only rebellious thing today is uncompromising communism.
/thread

[Anonymous No.13318445]

>>13318431
gave me a chuckle.
anyone else only ever said nigger as in "BRUH" or "you retard" and never as a real racial insult? using slurs in their first direct meaning is the linguistic bluepill.

[Anonymous No.13318446]

"alt right" is a puppet show for neoliberal faggots

If you're actually economically left / socially right that's incompatible with everything about modernity and every regime in Europe and the Atlantic. That's rebellion.

[Anonymous No.13318460]

>>13318446
Eric Striker is the new Che Guevara.

[Anonymous No.13318487]

>>13318027
Hey guys, having the same ideology as half of western academia has had throughout this century is totally anti-establishment i swear.
>Alt-right gets airtime on Fox News and millions of YouTube views from brainlets.
Where does it get airtime on any TV network where it isn't immediately portayed as the pinnacle of evil. Actually when I think about it, it gets very similar treatment to what punk had in the late 70s.
Also getting youtube views means nothing in these terms, commies get millions on views on shit, and they don't immediately get banned for it.
How anyone could think that being a commie is more dangerous to the current establishment than being apt-right or something similarly unacceptable baffles me.

[Anonymous No.13318503]

>>13318389
Yeah, I knew what you meant and you're right. I wasn't being sarcastic.

[Anonymous No.13318512]

There isn't one, and we do need one.
Going to travel for 2 years with nothing to your name is a weird and disconnected thing to do.

We got to the point where actually experiencing something beyond the mediocre is seen as bad because it is not normal. The point of such a movement is to bridge this gap and make the argument that there are unique lifestyles out there that are better than the normal shit(maybe we just connected this type to the insta thots, who are just living normal life but accelerated thanks to money).

Traditionalism has nothing romantic about it as it is today, it's just a religious lifestyle and the people who adhere to it are living very similar lifes to most people, they go to work, study, have kids, they also have church and some little philosophies about life, they aren't even close to religious fanatics in terms of the shit lifestyle that you find among those.
Religious fanaticism and the communities that come with it is always rebellious to an extent.

Right-wing ideas are not a lifestyle movement, the only lifestyle of the modern political 18-30 yo is writing angry Facebook posts or spending time on 4chan. Nothing interesting or courageous about any of it, also there are very few differences between left and right people online and lifestyles, they are always nerds who spend too much time on the computer.

[Anonymous No.13318560]

>Or have we surpassed these sorts of subversive strivings in society, perhaps even gone full circle to where we actually desire a return to what once was (suburb, loving spouse, house, car, kids, stable job, weekend outings and the likes)

I believe you've answered your own question. Post-post-modernism has left us without societal/cultural congruity, community identity, and has almost completely removed personal identity past mindless consumption and overindulgence of the senses. There is a resulting emptiness in the hearts of the rising generation, a sense of purposelessness. It's evident in our meme culture; a desperate attempt at connectivity over something entirely substance-less and insincere. I've seen someone commit suicide over this. Traditional societal roles no longer apply to budding Americans. We've spent the last few decades denying traditional values in our art, relationships, sexuality, media, etc.

In short, modern values and societal/community/familial roles are still being decided. We're reaching the end of our deliberate denial of traditionalism, and nearing the renewal of a cultural life cycle, so to speak. I think the next generation will be promising in this regard, in spite of this current generation looking bleak.

Just my opinion.

[Anonymous No.13318576]

>>13316792
Anime, and yes, the jews hate it.

[Anonymous No.13318582]

Incels who run people over in their cars are rebellious.

[Anonymous No.13318583]

>>13316809
>ALTERNATIVE right is neoconservatism
What? There's definitely shallow LARPing involved though, what makes it rebellious is that it is against the status quo, rejected and attacked by it. Unlike repeating the media-conditioned sentiment of vague 'rebellion' over and over as if it had any substance, as is the case in the status quo, even in academia. Also, altright is pretty broad, as you'd expect it's just a catchall afterall (useful because it allows for general dismissal and refusal to engage).

>>13316806
The only true rebellion is against modernity, everything else is substanceless or a sockpuppet.

[Anonymous No.13318608]

>>13316792
punk is inherently anti authority, trying to apply the label to the rigidly hierarchical structure of this bygone vision of america is not punk

[Anonymous No.13318679]

>>13317277
dude I still play TFC occasionally so that makes me a neanderthal gamer or what

[Anonymous No.13318691]

>>13316809
>The alt right is basically pulling down your pants sticking it in front of israel and saying do what you want master
>The alt right claims hitler did nothing wrong
do you know what the alt right is

[Anonymous No.13318730]

>>13316792
The taboos of our day are:
>Hitler
>The holocaust
>criticizing egalitarianism
>criticizing racial egalitarianism
>criticizing gender egalitarianism
>white identity
>Race realism
>hating homosexuals

Rebellion is
>White identity
>Racism
>Sexism
>Calling homos pedos
>damaging anti-white power structures
>hating immigrants
>either white identity politics or anti-politics
>hating niggers and cops at the same time

[Anonymous No.13318735]

Ghetto culture is the new big movement

[Anonymous No.13318739]

>>13318735
Ghetto culture is mainstream pushed by oligarchs and financed by big business

[Anonymous No.13318771]

>>13316792
Living a minimal, spartan life. The one way to resist the pounding of the big machine that sells everything is to stop buying anything from it. Active anti-consumerism.

[Anonymous No.13318822]

>>13317362
So boomerism that dominates society is punk...

You fucks need to take a step outside your college campus and realize every other person in America is not PC

[Anonymous No.13318851]

>>13318822
Almost everyone in North America is PC. It just varies by degrees, and almost every degree is too much. Total honesty is punk.

[Anonymous No.13318875]

>>13318851
No they aren't. You must either live in an urban center or a college campus. There's a reason why Trump and Joe "Don't mind if sniff your daughter" Biden are the two highest polling political candidates.l

[Anonymous No.13318905]

>>13318875
Don't be so simple.

[Anonymous No.13318910]

>>13318027
>Alt-right gets airtime on Fox News and millions of YouTube views from brainlets.
Wrong and wrong (although if you combine all the views from all alt-righters it could be millions).

The fact that you don't even know what the alt-right is--and are instead taking the mainstream media definition---is very telling.

[Anonymous No.13318927]

>>13317565
Punk is a style of rock music. It isn't a lifestyle. It isn't an ethos.

[Anonymous No.13318931]

>>13318875
>No they aren't. You must either live in an urban center or a college campus. There's a reason why Trump and Joe "Don't mind if sniff your daughter" Biden are the two highest polling political candidates.l
You're so deluded you don't even know what PC is

You can plan on being physically assaulted if you walk around in a MAGA hat. I was assaulted while walking out of a Trump rally in 2016. Trump isn't even edgy, he says things that were normal 10 years ago.

The West is morally policed by globohomo corporations and if you have the wrong opinions you get blacklisted from the job market. That is PC.

[Anonymous No.13318945]

>>13318931
Again this is based on where you live. Where I live, Trump is hugely popular and if you aren't wearing a MAGA hat or worried about immigration you might as well come from Mars. The entire country isn't solely Northern Virginia or NYC or LA or whatever.

None of it is edgy. Edgy wasn't synonymous with punk anyways.

[Anonymous No.13318948]

centrism or apoliticism and non-participation
sends people into a real hissy fit
if the game is rigged then do not play it

[Anonymous No.13318953]

>>13318945
>Where I live,
Where is this so I can move there

In Chicago if you say anything even mildly conservative or disagree with basic liberal talking points, you are in trouble

[Anonymous No.13318958]

>>13318953
Literally just leave cities/middle class suburbs. Exurban America is heavy trump country. The fact that some of the folks in here think that being a regular exurban Boomer is a transgressive rebellion is a sign you guys need to get see some other places to have some fucking perspective.

[Anonymous No.13318961]

>>13318948
>centrism or apoliticism and non-participation
These stances often correlate with not understanding the political system, geo-politics, or political theory.

>If the game is rigged then do not play it
This sentiment does not necessarily correlate with centrism

[Anonymous No.13318970]

>>13318958
>The fact that some of the folks in here think that being a regular exurban Boomer is a transgressive rebellion is a sign you guys need to get see some other places to have some fucking perspective.
>Leave America's cultural centers and go to where the unwashed powerless masses reside to understand that we don't live in a PC culture

Yeah this sentiment has never made sense. The people who generate media content, control the institutions, and control the exchange of information are PC. But somehow this doesn't mean we live in a PC culture.

I never said boomer conservitism was transgressive or edgy. The social engineers aggressively rushed to close off the confines o mainstream political discourse to be between progressive cringelords and Charlie Kirk/Turning point USA cringelords.

[Anonymous No.13318982]

>>13318970
>The people who generate media content, control the institutions, and control the exchange of information are PC.
I mean, obviously the national media, based in NYC and DC, will take after those places. Most people get their information from Facebook memes and local contact; they don't have NYT subscriptions to gobble up the noxious op ed section of the Paper of Record.

The culture you live in is the culture of the community around you. It isn't some ABC comedy that only 5million people watch, or Politico articles, or tweets by a WaPo journalist, unless you live in a community where that is the culture. This is what I mean when I say it's an urban thing. In the rest of America this stuff is alien and usually caricatured for ridicule.

[Anonymous No.13319006]

>>13318961
and so does commandist yuppie social democracy / FBI meme nazism
nobody has a grasp on any of this shit
telling these people to fuck off and tuning out is transgressive

[Anonymous No.13319045]

>>13316792
>What is rebellious modern-day?
There are many ways to be super edgy, I'm sure we can all think of a few.

Perhaps the more interesting question is "what is edgy, but also has the potential to have a lot of power?".
Nationalism in its truest form is one easy answer. That is, putting the interests of a group of people above the interests of free flowing capital and other groups.
This was common until somewhat recently (that's why we still have nation states--at least in the name) when capital interests took over and started redefining and relativizing the concept of a nation for the purpose of maximizing profits.

[Anonymous No.13319135]

>>13318576
why are they so shiny?

[Anonymous No.13319153]

>>13316792
Denial of the world for the sake of God has always been punk

[Anonymous No.13319156]

>>13316832
They are so well regimented that they do not need yo do so.

[Anonymous No.13319175]

>>13316931
It was stillborn - it just took us a long time to admit it.

[Anonymous No.13319181]

>>13319153
true

[Anonymous No.13319184]

>>13316792

Traditionalist theocratic white nationalism

[Anonymous No.13319195]

>>13317082
>But notice I cannot reject without "standing" for rejection
No, but you can ignore and abandon without "standing".

[Anonymous No.13319201]

>>13318982

wrong, or partly wrong. local media and news sources are also centrally controlled. for example the draper family controls almost all local media in the state of maryland. anchors/presenters are often hired out of major urban markets like los angeles and imported into state. this is the model in every state. the spine of every local broadcast is delivered top-down and cut with local content, weather, crimes, events. local media is quasi-national in ownership and fully national in the source of its storyline. it's an arrangement of identically ticking clocks with the same gear pattern - less a few parts - as the national media.

[Anonymous No.13319217]

>>13317477
>was a jew
noggin is joggin

[Anonymous No.13319238]

>>13316792
Fascism, nationalism, conservatism, liberalism, social democracy is all the same but with a different facade. Rebeliousness is rebelling against the present state of things and communism is the only movement to do so.

[Anonymous No.13319253]

>>13317526
>pissed off lesbians who hate consumer culture
I used to have a pair of these living next door to me. They were fucking helpless. They relied on outsiders for everything. They could not even fix their own drip irrigation system. They had more repairMEN come work on their house than the rest of the block combined.

[Anonymous No.13319262]

>>13317565
>y'all need to consume my commodity

[Anonymous No.13319280]

>>13317680
>why the fuck are people conflating anti-authority with contrarianism?
Because they are ignorant of the underpinnings of terminology and they lack reason. You seem tethered to them a bit by giving them any more thought than just recognizing them for what they are.

[Anonymous No.13319330]

>>13319238
The problem with communism is that it has no realistic potential for power. That's why big capital doesn't mind that you LARP as a commie. You can easily find people with commie T-shirts working at Google or Apple. But try wearing anything remotely resembling nationalism, even something as pozzed as a Republicuck/MAGA hat.

[Anonymous No.13319342]

>>13317317
underrated

[Anonymous No.13319373]

i like the Misfits

[Anonymous No.13319659]

>>13318582
Pat Brown?

[Anonymous No.13319666]

>>13318583
>it's just a catchall afterall
It is a physical manifestation of a strawman.

[Anonymous No.13319676]

>>13318927
>It isn't an ethos.
It was a defective ethos that collapsed. Those that think that it never existed are just as deluded as those who think that it still does.

[Anonymous No.13319710]

>>13318982
>will take after those places
You have conflated cause and effect.

[Anonymous No.13319717]

>>13316792
Having sex.

[Anonymous No.13319719]

>>13317680
>Also why the fuck are people conflating anti-authority with contrarianism?
because they believe in authority. they dont believe something like anti-authority can exist without some kind of inner problem. i learn it the hard way.

[Anonymous No.13319948]

>>13316792
Punk is and always will be an outlet for middle-class art students to justify their lack of musical talent by adopting an aesthetic of outrage and moral disgust. It's literally the most disingenuous genre and I can't wait for it to die

[Anonymous No.13319959]

>>13319948
You, sir, sound like a filthy hippy. Die in a fire,

[Anonymous No.13320089]

>>13317427
>I don't fuck with no old hoes, only new hoes
>Put my dick in her backbone, I pass her to my bro
>I don't love her, that's a sad ho, she a bad ho
>I'ma fuck her, then I dash home, to the cash ho
This is so dumb on purpose it become a political statement.

[Anonymous No.13320162]

>>13319959
hippies are just as bad, city pricks that fetishise a particular natural state of living even though the retarded VW campervan they've been living in the past three years has probably done more to pollute the environment than anything the hippies have done to protect it. A "community" founded on drugs, orgies with unattractive loose women and forgetting to wipe. No thank you

[Anonymous No.13320233]

>>13319959
uuuu

[Anonymous No.13320270]

>>13318910
Bruh the alt-right is cringe. You are cringe.

[Anonymous No.13320409]

>>13320270
>the alt-right is cringe
That is the entire point behind a strawman.

[Anonymous No.13320478]

>>13316792
Anybody who supported the punk movement of yesterday has either fallen into severe hopelessness or fell into supporting hopeless causes.

There's no youth movement because zoomers like me are too caught up in the epic culture war between "the alt-right", "the libtards" and "the socialists". It's cringe. Not to mention that punk music nowadays boils down to the same problem because it hasn't grown with the time to recognise the new brand of bullshit. It doesn't matter anyway though, because if people cared half as much as they should about half the topics punk brought up, there would be riots in every city. Rebellious attitude has always been a castrated concept because people are too scared to attempt to change anything.

[Anonymous No.13320489]

>>13316792
I remember an anon saying these wise words: shitting yourself is one of the few remaining acts of rebellion in the modern world.

[Anonymous No.13320525]

>>13320270
Ah, finally someone who sounds like an intellectual. Thank you for blessing us with your presence.

[Anonymous No.13320537]

The new counter culture is getting your shit together

[Anonymous No.13320543]

>dae the new punk is conservatism?????
suck me

[Anonymous No.13320544]

None. Everything has been appropriated by marketing. Gnostic themes appear in children's tv. Edgy uneducated teenagers read Evola and Guenon. Instagram models pose with Guy Debord books. Fast fashion labels make outfits inspired by Parajanov. There is nothing sacred, nothing safe, nothing divorced from the spectacle

[Anonymous No.13320557]

>>13320409
It's not a strawman if there are people who legitimately rally around the term. stop being cringey

[Anonymous No.13320590]

Why does everyone want to be the new "it"? In their pursuit to be seen as avant-guard and edgy, does anyone stop and think why exactly they want to be in with the "new"? Is it that corporatism has pushed and marketed identities that go out of style like fashion clothing? Is it just for the sake of it?

[Anonymous No.13320607]

The NEET and the Cleric.

[Anonymous No.13320624]

>>13320557
>suckers cannot rally around idiocy

[Anonymous No.13320658]

Every ideology is a product. The only way to rebel is to not consume. Stop buying things

[Anonymous No.13320659]

Pure unadulterated anarchy, anti-intellectualism, serving your immediate interests, trusting your instincts, not falling for de-responsabilizing and de-humanizing institutions, mainly science and education. Not working, stealing, redirecting capitalist ressources to the furnace.

[Anonymous No.13320670]

>>13320658
this but I'd go further and say that to be actively rebellious is to redirect and destroy commodities.

[Anonymous No.13320681]

>>13316792

Incels and neets, maybe. Not the retarded alt right propaganda, but just being someone who doesn't ascribe to the current aesthetics/relationships/jobs rat maze that is forced on you by every form of media and society.

If you are deep in the alt right rabbit hole or deep in the social justice warrior rabbit hole you've been manipulated through your insecurities. Anyone who lives outside of this identity politics grid is the counter culture.

[Anonymous No.13320686]

>>13320670
Not very rebellious when you get locked in a penitentiary and become a ward of the state

[Anonymous No.13320707]

>>13317167
red shirt looks like straight edge hardcore?
give me some less obvious straight edge hardcore please

[Anonymous No.13320751]

>>13317496
i think chief keef and the beginnings of chicago drill were pretty based
him shooting music videos with a bunch of his mates in their house, in place of (unconsciously at that) the look-at-me-im-rich mentality of hip hop, was something new, and seemingly dangerous, and authentic

[Anonymous No.13321341]

>>13320670
That's just another form of consumption, as is performative nonconsumption

[Anonymous No.13321359]

>>13316792
Suburbs were already a cope. The desire of all is a village. The terror of all is a village. In a village life we have comfort and familiarity, history and personal meaning. But a village is small and unexciting; the more you know someone, the more you know their faults. What we all want most is to be Bilbo Baggins returning to the shire. To have the memories of adventure and the comfort of home. Growing up is realizing it was all ever only a story.

[Anonymous No.13322288]

>>13321359
damn

[Anonymous No.13322678]

>>13317602
This, just this. Also honesty

[Anonymous No.13322725]

>>13316806
this shit unoriginal. come up with something new boomers.

[Anonymous No.13322797]

Punk and beatnik were always really fucking gay and shitty, read one of Kerouac's novels and realize this

if you're seeking transgression then heil my boy hitler there's nothing better than that on this region of the planet in the current era

[Anonymous No.13322826]

>>13322725
>this shit unoriginal. come up with something new boomers.
Traditionalism is a theocratic monarchy with a caste system, distributist economics and 70% of the things we enjoy outlawed

People who think "Traditionalism" is "boomer" haven't read Traditionalist literature. The average boomer would be executed for Divorce and Cheating in a society like that

[Anonymous No.13322859]

>>13318487
>How anyone could think that being a commie is more dangerous to the current establishment than being apt-right or something similarly unacceptable baffles me.
Being a commie in Indonesia, Colombia, Peru, and many other countries literally gets you disappeared in 2019. Which country disappears "alt-right" NPC brainlets? Nobody, because your ideology is a LARP that threatens no one.

[Anonymous No.13322878]

>>13322859
He's clearly talking about the US, where you face much more severe consequences for being a nazi than a tankie

[Anonymous No.13322909]

>>13322878
If you are a Nazi you can get elected to the House, like this guy

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_J._Jones

There are still laws which allow the government of California (allegedly a "far-left" state) to unilaterally fire anyone suspected of harboring communist beliefs.

https://www.sacbee.com/news/politics-government/capitol-alert/article151143712.html

[Anonymous No.13322932]

>>13322909
*run for the house, my bad

[Anonymous No.13322950]

>>13322909
He wasn't elected for anything though Im surprised someone like that even exists. The US is more based than I thought, hopefully the nazis take over

[Anonymous No.13323726]

>>13316806
>>13317362
>>13318730
>>13319153
>>13319184
I would write a long response but thankfully an anon on /his/ just BTFOd all you LARPing alt-right christians already. Pic very obviously related.

[Anonymous No.13323750]

>>13323726
OK; I'm not alt-right, right, or Christian.

[Anonymous No.13323765]

unironically 4chan meme culture.

[Anonymous No.13323786]

>>13316792
Anti-tech and ecofascism

[Anonymous No.13323788]

>>13317614
>Ian MacKaye
>fascist
ohnoitsretarded.jpg

[Anonymous No.13323792]

>>13316792
>tfw all i wanted was this

Why I must I be born amid such chaos? WHY?!

[Anonymous No.13323802]

>>13323726
We hate Modernism, because modernism is a heresy--to believe that something is goid because it is now, to believe that by its mere practice in contemporary society without precedent a belief or action is more virtuous, that tradition is a chain dragging us to the deep and not a well of meaning and nourishment. I've certainly met some people at church who are like this Anon says, but progress can only be measured by Love. There is nothing new under the Sun, and no talk of innovation or art can be accepted which does not judge art for its moral value before its aesthetic value. There are plenty educated and experienced historians and art critics who would crticize Picasso. If they complain about African influences, then they are most certainly wrong; if theh complain about ugliness and discord, they are raising valid points. The beginning of any consideration of "western" civilization can only begin with the Roman church from which it was born; the mistake these strawmen make is only in valuing the history of the west more than the history of the church. The light of faith is a torch of love that for the sake of all we must never let fade.

[Anonymous No.13323814]

>>13316792
I do not give a shit OP, do you think you're being rebellious by not posting about books on /lit/?