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/lit/ - Literature

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13271114 No.13271114 [Reply] [Original]

ITT "left wing classics" that actually perpetuate far right ideas.

>> No.13271125

Stop making these threads

>> No.13271135

>>13271114
How does it perpetuate far right ideas?
Its like people saying "foucault is a crypto-facist" because he didnt outright state "its bad okay this is stupud poopy not good" in his book.

>> No.13271140

the right wing doesn't own pessimism about cultural decadence

>> No.13271234

>>13271114
Debord:
I’m a communist. I think that capitalism commodifies everything and forces humanity to live in a consumption oriented purgatory. We should make workers councils to stop this.

Anons in 2019: wow this is totally like the leviathan

>> No.13271317

>>13271140
Going on about cultural decadence implies that we were better off before. Therefore it is reactionary

>> No.13271339

>>13271135
>>13271140
>>13271234
>bro look at all these problems of liberal capitalism the solution is to create a society where people have as much as they possibly want to consume (ahem sorry take part in "genuine interactions") any thing they want and are as free as they wish to do so this totally wouldn't accentuate the problems of liberal capitalism

>> No.13271384

>>13271114
Christopher Lasch is a big one.

>> No.13271397

>>13271384
McLuhan’s Understanding Media, as well. He was a Catholic for crying out loud.

>> No.13271441

>Reeee my total NOT UTOPIA will totally make most people not absolute fucking plebs

>> No.13271475

>>13271234
Hobbes was a proto-liberal.

>> No.13271512

>>13271475
thanks

>> No.13271515

>>13271339
Fucking this. All of leftism is one huge self-own desu

>> No.13271517

>>13271339
it's obviously not a good thing that the symptoms of abundance are listlessness and alienation, but it's childish to think that primitivism is superior to that

>> No.13271559

More like
>ITT left wing books appropriated by contemporary far right thinkers to give a sense of intellectual legitimacy to the Alt Right, which actually is completely bunk
Next you'll say that the Unabomber was a better leftist than Martin Luther King or something retarded like that

>> No.13271614

>>13271114
I never read that book because I don't want /lit/ to laugh at me, even though I know there is some truth in it.

>> No.13271617

>>13271339
based retard

>> No.13271658

>>13271339
how can chomsky ever recover?

>> No.13271807

>>13271559
youre angry its being used for reasons other than justifying tranny lesbian orgies

>> No.13272082

ITT: "I have never attempted to understand leftist thought outside of that one time I read the communist manifesto while half asleep and bored so I get all my knowledge of leftism from right wing memes about communists and capitalists being jews"

>> No.13272123

>>13271339
>dude, liberals are just fascists

>> No.13272399

>>13271114
Commentary on the Society of the Spectacle is basically a crypto far-right conspiracy theory.

>> No.13272452

>>13271114
Anything by Jean-Claude Michea, Christopher Lasch, Balzac, early Baudrillard, Michel Clouscard, Simone Weil, George Orwell, Celine, Georges Sorel, Pasolini, early Lukacs.

>> No.13272467
File: 16 KB, 220x294, 220px-Bakunin_Nadar.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13272467

>This whole Jewish world, comprising a single exploiting sect, a kind of blood sucking people, a kind of organic destructive collective parasite, going beyond not only the frontiers of states, but of political opinion, this world is now, at least for the most part, at the disposal of Marx on the one hand, and of Rothschild on the other. [...] This may seem strange. What can there be in common between socialism and a leading bank? The point is that authoritarian socialism, Marxist communism, demands a strong centralisation of the state. And where there is centralisation of the state, there must necessarily be a central bank, and where such a bank exists, the parasitic Jewish nation, speculating with the Labour of the people, will be found.[81][82]

Bakunin was kind of based

>> No.13272473

When will self described rightwingers wake up and realize they're actually interested in socialism/anarchism?

>>13272123
Fascism is to liberal-capitalism as jihadists are to Islam

>> No.13272472

>>13271114
Libshits mad that they don't have a trademark on ideas

>> No.13272474

Why are more honest rightists more willing to draw ideas from the opposite camp then vice versa?

>> No.13272480

>>13272473
>Fascism is to liberal-capitalism as jihadists are to Islam
no?

>> No.13272493

>>13272474
Because the West is such a god damn mess right now and there's so little time that we need to be pragmatic

>> No.13272505

>>13272474
what are some right wing ideas that are worth considering

>> No.13272575

>>13272505
The Burkean social contract

>> No.13272622

>>13272473
When they read Marx's On the Jewish Question.

>>13272474
Because they're not Anglos.

>> No.13272654
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13272654

And don't forget Hegel's On the Philosophy of Right, and his Lectures on History

>> No.13272663

>>13272480
Turns out it’s true.

>>13272622
Ah yes. The racist contingency are their undoing.
But they’d be right at home in a regionalist anarchist world. Left to their own devices, I think they’d probably putter out of existence like the Spartans. All inbred

>> No.13272691
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13272691

>>13272663
Marx was a racist and an anti-semite. Why do you worship this man?

>> No.13272713

>>13272474
Because neoconservatism is a schizophrenic dumpster fire.

>> No.13272730

>>13272691
Wtf I love Marx now

>> No.13272734

>>13272505
The fact that poor people are garbage and need to be left to die

>> No.13272740

>>13272691
Marx lied to get the support of the working class.

>> No.13272743
File: 76 KB, 850x400, alain de benoist.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13272743

>>13272474
Only the anglos hold to a firm left/right dichotomy. Don't ask me why.

>> No.13272746

>>13272740
This is personal correspondance though

>> No.13272751

>>13272691
1. I don’t worship any man
2. This private letter is taken somewhat out of context, as is the man in his times.
You can trot out Bakunin next and I’ll say the same. They didn’t kill anyone for the color of their skin or their particular faith or lack thereof

>> No.13272756

>>13272505
Aristocratic Theocracy

>> No.13272764

>>13272740
It's a private letter but thanks for proving that the proletariat is naturally reactionary and only bourgeois academics adhere to the Marxist idea that the proles need to live through their injustices in order to be led by a vanguard class of bourgeois into a soulless state capitalism.

The moment the left sided with the concept of progress is when they turned their backs on the proletariat. Very, very disgusting.

>> No.13272793

>>13271114
>>13272399
>>13271384
>>13271397
>>13271807
>>13272467
ITT: dumbasses perpetuate the right/left dichotomy on works by authors who didn't even believe in said dichotomy themselves. Debord was a marxist communist, and a better one at that than any soviet tankie because he actually READ and UNDERSTOOD Marx, Hegel, and so on

>> No.13272807

dumbass thread posted by a dumbass, backed up by other dumbasses. don't take the bait friens

>> No.13272814

>>13271339
This desu. The core is the same. The problem s materialism.

>> No.13272961

>>13272793
He opens Commentary on the Society of Spectacle with "Basically my last book only made things worse. I know secret service will read this book so I have to be very careful what I say...We're fucked."

>> No.13272974

>>13272793
You're right, Marx never described himself as a leftist. Why don't Marxists like yourself chimp out whenever someone labels Marx a leftist? It's only bad when the right-wingers do it?

>> No.13273011

>>13272473
Because your Marxist utopia isn't real or ever will be, until you change human nature. Humans are not going to just be creative and intelligent because Chosmky says that's "who we are". A society that allows humans to pursue whatever they want and allocates the resources to do say will become far more degenerate than any critiques of contemporary society.

>> No.13273091

>>13272751
Imagine implementing real socialism/anarchism with people like this namefag. It would swing back to a powerful state real fast.

>> No.13273095

>>13272974
because most Marxists are retard Leninists who don't read and think the best way to spend their time is by defending Holodomor and investing in Chinese stock to support "actually-existing socialism" rather than educating themselves on theory

>> No.13273133

>>13273095
amen

>> No.13273296

>>13272575
Burke was a poncy whig.

>> No.13273322
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13273322

>>13273011
I’m not a Marxist.
“Human nature” changes with the changing social norms of the days. Technology is changing us this past generation, I’ve seen it, and it will continue to do so.

>> No.13273350

>>13273322
Never said you were, but I like to ask you whether you aspire towards a Marxist utopia? Any how, do you no disagree that humans have a nature, as moldable as it might be?

>> No.13273367

>>13273322
> I'm not a Marxist.
> [Inserts Marxist theory]

Let me guess, you're a snowflake ancom, something like Murray "Let's be bodyguards for America in Kurdistan" Bookchin?

LMFAO, you blue-haired crackers.

>> No.13273375
File: 288 KB, 1467x900, blindfolded-man-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13273375

Right wingers are so stupid that they blame "leftists" for everything, but when they actually sit and read hardcore leftists, they love the stuff and claim the author to be right wing.

>> No.13273385

Lots of stuff by elull

>> No.13273397

>>13271517
>it's childish to think that primitivism is superior to that
yikes

>> No.13273403

>>13271114

Gramsci is quite often quoted by right-wing academics, think about his idea of hegemony. But actually we don’t know how much of freely he could write while incarcerated

>> No.13273404

>>13271114
reminder that nationalism was such a stupid idea that no intellectual predicted that it would become so large

>> No.13273414

>>13272961
This can also be the case

>> No.13273421

>>13273404
>no intellectual predicted that it would become so large
>nationalism is stupid based on the failings of outside parties

>> No.13273445

>>13273375
Yeah these threads are made by Petersonite retards who are shocked when they actually read books and realize that leftist theorists from the 19th century weren't talking about tranny bathrooms
At least it implies that they're attempting to read the books, but I wish they wouldn't come to the dumbest possible conclusions from it

>> No.13273500

>>13273350
It’s is quite malleable and can certainly improve itself once it is set free. I aspire to achieve that freedom or aim us towards it. I’m sure authoritarianism won’t save the environment.

>>13273367
Haven’t read Bookchin yet. Seems reasonable. Read Wolff and Cockshott most recently. I’m Anarchist. Egoist-syndicalist, and open to change my mind.

>> No.13273505

>>13273421
you only need the first three words in your second meme arrow

>> No.13273510

>>13272743
so does europe, i'm not familiar with asia or latam, though, so i couldn't tell.

>> No.13273541
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13273541

>>13273445
>Petersonite retards
Is that still a thing here? It seemed to me like they either abandoned him or left.

>> No.13273547

>>13273505
>hurr, hurr me so clever

>> No.13273595

>>13273541
they are still high on the zizek peterson debate, cant get over clinging to meme theatrics as cope. 'daddy got schooled'. and no theyre both retards. or perhaps not, theyre old and close to retirement and theyre both capitalists in that regard, collecting money from impressionable pseuds. meme marxists realistically btfo.

>> No.13273672

>>13271559
>2019
>still using “alt-right” like it means anything

>> No.13273673

>>13271339
>bro
stopped reading there

>> No.13273685
File: 1.09 MB, 200x270, dist.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13273685

>americans speaking about debord

>> No.13273687

>>13272474
Because they're capable of recognizing that leftism isn't a total fucking scam, unlike modern conservatism

>> No.13273707

>>13273375
Surprised no one has mentioned this one yet.

Leftists invented Holocaust denial. Really makes you think.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auschwitz_or_the_great_alibi

>> No.13273714

unironically the most retarded thread on /lit/, even taking into account that there is one dedicated to butterfly

>> No.13273719

>>13273707
There is a great deal of memery going on with which camps were death or work camps. I haven't bothered looking into it much because I guess I just don't care really, but it wouldn't be exactly surprising if they were all just work camps and the death camps were propaganda. On the other hand I wouldnt be overly surprised if they did gas them either.

>> No.13273728

>>13271114
The far-right are just cuckslaves for the jews and ultra-rich class, they have no ideas of their own.

>> No.13273734

Because leftists are the ones that give coherent theories and analysis of society, the far right tends to simply disagree with left wing solutions.
But vice versa the far right does not produce any theory or framework of its own, only "solutions", the few right-wingers that did (Heidegger, Nietzsche, Schmitt...) certainly inspired many leftists

>> No.13273740

>>13273734
Meant for >>13272474

>> No.13273748

>>13273547
yes I am

>> No.13273789

>>13271339
>and are as free as they wish to do so
Who is free to do and consume as they wish? You still have taxes to pay, mortgages and loans to pay, you need money for food, living expenses, the things you want, the people you want, etc. You want something? You still have to work for it. Now people will, because they know they can get what they want eventually. Not so under other systems.

>> No.13273840

>>13271317
>the left cant be reactionary
lmao

>> No.13274212

>>13271114
What is this book about? Can someone give me a brief explanation?

>> No.13274220

>>13273707
>the Auschwitz concentration camp could not have been created as an extermination camp because the bourgeoisie cannot act without a profit motive and therefore this was a labor camp in which members of the middle class exploited and exterminated other members of the middle class, thereby enabling capitalists to accumulate wealth.[3] However, an actual reading of the text reveals that the existence of death camps were taken for granted and that the goal of the paper was not to deny death camps, but to explain why the bourgeoisie would view the extermination of Jews (and specifically Jews) as profitable. The text does not deny the horrors of the Holocaust

>> No.13274225

>>13274220
Holocaust revisionism is basically considered denialism

>> No.13274231

Ideas that appear on both sides of a dichotomy are above the dichotomy.

>> No.13274299

>>13271114
The right are so fucking stupid

>> No.13274327

>>13271339
>>13271515
This is genuinely what some liberals and right wingers believe

>> No.13274334

>>13271559
Based

>> No.13274357

>>13274220
He's saying it's had nothing to do with their Jewishness. He's diminishing the uniqueness of the Shoah. And he actually denies the death camps, they're labor camps for Bordiga.

It's pretty much Holocaust denial. Read the actual text instead of brainlet wiki which contradicts itself
> the Auschwitz concentration camp could not have been created as an extermination camp
> the text reveals that the existence of death camps were taken for granted

So, are they extermination camps or not? Bordiga, unlike the wiki, says they are not. Simply labor camps that had nothing really to do with anti-semitism.

If it quacks like Holocaust denial, and it walks like Holocaust denial, it's fucking Holocaust denial.

>> No.13274748

>As far back as 1985, Guy Debord observed: “We have made ourselves into Americans. It’s no surprise that we should experience all the miserable problems of the U.S.A., from drugs to the mafia, ‘fast food’ and the proliferation of ethnicities.”

>> No.13274781
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13274781

>>13271114

>> No.13274853
File: 31 KB, 552x688, real.jordan.hours.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13274853

>>13274781
>STAHP!
Make me.

>> No.13274874

>>13274781
This guy is on record praising the Hitler Youth, claiming ISIS is a creation of America and Israel because they're attacking Hezbollah, advocating that french zionists like Bernhard Henri-Levy get the death penalty.

Not to mention he follows a psychoanalytic (Lacan) who believes women are unable to articulate what they desire sexually.

Zizek is a right-wing conspiracy theorist.

>> No.13274923
File: 57 KB, 625x626, conundrum.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13274923

>13274874

>> No.13275536

i don't understand the leftist bickering itt. what does leftypol even want in 2019? what does neoliberalism not accomplish for you that communism would? why are you faggots so wishy-washy about the spectacle?

>> No.13275584

>>13275536
Modern leftists are absolutely terrified of the working class. Hence Corbynist cozy Quaker communism for disappointed college graduates who feel their rightful place in society as genderrific philosopher queens has been withheld from them.

>> No.13275589

>>13275584
imagine one of those shrill catlady professors being forced to pave roads God it would be based

>> No.13275610

>>13272751
Based

>> No.13275649

>>13275589
Ashamed to admit I felt a (brief, passing) pang of sympathy for Pol-Pot just now.

>> No.13275668

>>13271441
The left is a pleb union

>> No.13276057

>>13275536
People who call themselves leftists fall into two categories:
-Liberals in denial who shitpost about Lenin and Mao but also want guns taken away and consider anybody mildly critical of trannies to be a fascist (typical antifa faggots)
-Angry Zizek types that realize their voice is forever drowned out by the defanged baby shit now considered "the left" and that capitalism will now go on unchallenged forever because its only opposition was successfully derailed into purity-spiralling nonsense
/pol/ types frequently make the mistake of assuming everybody discussing the left on 4chan is in the former group, which is why they just half-assedly yell about dilating instead of engaging. The truth is that nobody earnestly engaged in progressive identity politics spends a lot of time on 4chan, there's just too much sensory overload from all the concentrated bitterness for them to parse in large doses. Anyone on the left on 4chan is in the second group, which funnily enough tends to hate the first as much as everybody else.
To answer your question, neoliberalism accomplishes nothing that communism would. They are diametrically opposed. Neoliberalism is about expanding and simplifying markets (the real reason the fake-left pushes so hard on immigration and blending of cultures) and banal populist nitpicking to distract from the effects of globalizing.

>> No.13276337

>>13276057
so why communism?

>> No.13276409

>>13276057
I say those things to rub salt in your wounds and remind you how powerless you are in the general discourse. Even if you hate Thant group of people p, you inevitably will support them.

>> No.13276440

>>13276337
I'm not really a communist anymore. I'm disillusioned about any large-scale human enterprise. Original sin. Maybe that makes me an anarchist, I don't know.
>>13276409
>you inevitably will support them
Why is it inevitable? Because you don't know what lines to recite if I don't support them?

>> No.13276462

>>13276057
Ironically the exact same has happened to the "right". The neocon warmongers are about as representative of "rightists" as the neoliberal warmongers are of "leftists".

But it nevertheless remains true that even the "genuine" left/right inevitably become the cheerleaders for the D/R divide. At the end of the day /pol/ will vote R and /leftypol/ will vote D, even though both genuinely hate the thing they are voting for more then anything else.

>> No.13276490

>>13273789
lol brainlet you completely misunderstood

>> No.13276500

>>13271339
wew lad

>> No.13276502

>>13273707
>Linking to the wikipedia page rather than the text itself

Yep, you definitely wouldn’t want someone to read something and accidentally think for themselves instead of lapping up your bullshit.

>> No.13276584

>>13271559
the alt-right was a some far right meme movement that died once drumpf got elected

>> No.13276608

>>13271114
Well, we actually meet in pro-worker and anti-capitalist, anti-imperialist ideas, on our wings. The "horseshoe" does as much to minimize differences within the center as on the ends.

>> No.13276613

>>13273685
sickening isn't it

>> No.13276615

>>13273500
>It’s is quite malleable and can certainly improve itself once it is set free. I aspire to achieve that freedom or aim us towards it. I’m sure authoritarianism won’t save the environment.

So how exactly do you mold a nature in a society where you have thrown off all possible contraints and have absolute consential activity?

>> No.13276617

>>13271559
>alt-right
cringe and tranny-pilled

>> No.13276619

>>13273707
wow your really showing em bud!

>> No.13276622

>>13273595
lol very few people actually like Peterson on /lit/ you're seeing a few meme threads and as a usual leftist exgerating it.

>> No.13276638
File: 31 KB, 720x720, 38495672_10214536178785960_2000589830831996928_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13276638

x (610) 896-1877 x

>> No.13276639

>>13276615
Organize to effect a positive change, community by community, till it spreads. One little aspect and the dominos fall into place.
Wolff explains it some here
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=p7x7oVwhHok

>> No.13276641

>>13276638
w-what

>> No.13276647

>>13276639
lmao so activism is your solution to ensuring people in a society of absolute abundance and wealth will think critically and act the way you want them to?

kek

>> No.13276658

>>13274327
not national socialists :)

>> No.13276661

>>13276647
Activism? Pulling struggling communities together and prepping for economic collapse is organizing, not picketing.
>in a society of absolute abundance and wealth will think critically and act the way you want them to?
You’re not from the states, are you.

>> No.13276670

>>13276661
How is prepping for economic collapse in anyway going to lead to ancom utopia? You keep moving the goalposts with even more retarded claims lmao.

>> No.13276676

All ideas become commodities, co-opted by the System and sold back to you, delivered to your door by an Amazon drone. Your order of Kapital has been shipped.

How do you defeat an anti-fragile epitome of social evolution, intent on eating you and everything you love alive? Do you even know what you're dealing with? It incorporates everything, looks like everything, is everything.

>> No.13276694

If you cannot name the Jew your words are untrue.

>> No.13276705

>>13276694
B A S E D antisemitic poet

>> No.13277349

>>13274357
It was probably not written by Bordiga himself though

>> No.13277377

>>13276440
> Why is it inevitable? Because you don't know what lines to recite if I don't support them?
Because the left will always side with itself against the right.

>> No.13277409

>>13276440
>I'm disillusioned about any large-scale human enterprise [...] Maybe that makes me an anarchist
Do you still want society to change or have you accepted it as a nuisance that can't be overcome?

>> No.13278005

>>13276462
This is accurate, but I don't vote anymore.
>>13277409
Mostly the latter. I just don't see any possible development where the general populace is moved to give enough of a shit about anything to change the unbelievably large and complex system in place. It's so decentralized and so firmly intertwined with every aspect of daily life that nobody knows where it ends and they begin. You can't cleanly kill that, and very few even want to.
I think the environment will catch up to us in the next century. My only consolation is that if we don't do a single fucking thing about it, we wholeheartedly deserve that end.

>> No.13278024

>>13273687
this

>> No.13278025

>>13276490
How? Was that poster not asserting that our society lets people consume what they want and do as they wish? Neither of those things are true.

>> No.13278508

>>13275536
>what does neoliberalism not accomplish for you that communism would?
A stateless, moneyless and classless society?