COMMUNISTS VS FASCISTS

[Anonymous No.13255011]

Which one will win? Used to be a communist but now I'm thinking Lenin was a faggot so I'm fascist now.

[Anonymous No.13255030]

This image is remarkably incorrect. Marxism is a brand of communism. Not all Communists are Marxists, just like how not all Socialists are Communists. :3

[Anonymous No.13255044]

>>13255030
all communists are gay that's all that really matters

[Nikolai No.13255048]

>>13255011
Communist of course, since facism can't solve class struggle. I don't see why they should be seen as equal though.

[Anonymous No.13255052]

imagine actually thinking the origin of fascism (the totalitarian palingenetic ultranationalist movements of 20th century Europe) originated solely from "the doctrine of fascism".

[Anonymous No.13255056]

I’ve come to dislike both at this point, but I think I hate the communists more because they can’t conceive of a politics that extends beyond their bodies.

[Anonymous No.13255057]

>>13255048
Communism doesn't exist anywhere in the world dumbfuck, how do you expect it to win anything. This isn't football.

[Anonymous No.13255062]

>>13255052
Yeah, or actually believing that Communism is entirely defined by the work written in the late 19th century by Marx ABOUT Communism. I mean Jesus...

This thread is now about how stupid the image is :3

[Anonymous No.13255063]

>>13255011
Both are deeply flawed ideologies but I'm gonna have to give it to fascism just because they dressed better.

[Nikolai No.13255067]

>>13255057
What's that supposed to mean? of course it doesn't exist anywhere but there political parties, and even countries who strive for it. I mean what would be the point of communist parties if we would have communism?
>>13255062
This. OP is braindead.

[Anonymous No.13255069]

>>13255048
class struggle is what you guys would call a "spook". same for the so called international proletariat.

[Anonymous No.13255070]

Modern, fascist China seems much more equitable and resilient than when Mao was in charge. Same with Spain and Portugal.

[Anonymous No.13255071]

The answer may be neither. If communism doesn't win before society begins to dissolve as a result of climate change then the fascists who remain in power will likely be killed by the rioting masses. Socialism or barbarism.

[Anonymous No.13255075]

Gotta go with fascism on the basis that it actually exists and "full communism" is Bigfoot tier mythos.
>>13255067
>some people want it to happen therefore it will undo the superstructure of global hegemony just like Marx said of course
There's no way you're this fucking stupid.

[Anonymous No.13255076]

>>13255071
*Starves fifty million peasants*
>At least we aren't barbarians!

[Anonymous No.13255087]

>>13255048
Fascism rejects class struggle entirely. Its actually one of the areas where it completely trumps Marxism, it embraces a reasonable form of capitalism to ensure a sound economic system, but as soon as we reach the technological state where its longer needed it will dispose of it. Any Marxist political interpretation is incapable of this.

[Nikolai No.13255088]

>>13255075
>some people want it to happen therefore it will undo the superstructure of global hegemony just like Marx said of course
That's not my view. It will happen when the time for it is right. When will that be? I don't know. If we look at the rate of profit it would reach dangerously low levels over 50 years. Of course in the meantime a war or climate catastrophy is possible which would speed up the process.

[Anonymous No.13255091]

>>13255063
This desu, had better tunes and art too

[Anonymous No.13255100]

>>13255011
Is Mussolini's work really more influential than the big H? Also, to the Marxists, if the communist manifesto can't be read as the originating doctrine of communism, what can? Who are these supposed pre-marxist communists?

[Anonymous No.13255114]

>>13255088
>speed up the process
The process of what? Of capitalism's inevitable collapse? You're very obviously a "progressive" larping as a radical so as to apply such a linear conception of future events you will have no part in.
It's new form is governed by the same institutions of power, you think an environmental catastrophe would change that?
I'm thinking the moon falls out of orbit and crashes into Earth before the turn of the century. It's never come even close to happening before but it will happen. When will that be? I don't know. Shut the fuck up.

[Anonymous No.13255121]

>>13255030
SO what?

[Anonymous No.13255123]

>>13255087
Except the class struggle is a material reality that must be confronted. Workers have a vested interest in getting as high a wage as possible; capitalists have a vested interest in paying as little for labor as possible. This conflict of interest is inarguable. Fascism simply ignores it, and presents a whole schizophrenic race-mythology as the answer instead, when in reality Capital doesn't give a damn what color of worker it exploits. Worse, Fascism is actually a very effective guard-dog for capitalism, keeping the angry laborer away from their own door by throwing them an "ethnic Other" as the enemy instead, dividing and conquering workers along race-lines.
>>13255076
Capitalism has starved, beaten, tortured and bombed far more.

[Anonymous No.13255127]

>>13255030
That makes no difference on anything. None of those things are real.

[Anonymous No.13255131]

>[D]espite its exceptional military capabilities, Fascism is still left with a thorny problem it can't resolve: whilst economic crisis keeps the reasons for a revolutionary upsurge continually to the fore, Fascism is incapable of reorganising the bourgeois economic machine. Fascism, which will never be able to overcome the economic anarchy of the capitalist system, has another historical task which we may define as the struggle against /political/ anarchy, against the anarchy of bourgeois class organisation as a political party. The different strata of the Italian ruling class have always formed political and parliamentary groups which aren't based on soundly organised parties and which have fought amongst themselves. Under the leadership of career politicians, the competition between these groups around private and local interests has led to all kinds of intrigues in the corridors of parliament. The counter-revolutionary offensive has forced the ruling class, in the realm of social struggle and government policy, to unify its forces. Fascism is the realisation of this. Placing itself above all the traditional bourgeois parties, it is gradually sapping them of their membership, replacing them in their functions and—thanks to the mistakes of the proletarian movement—managing to exploit the political power and human material of the middle classes. But it will never manage to equip itself with a practical ideology, and a programme of social and administrative reforms, which goes beyond traditional bourgeois politics; a politics which has come to nought a thousand times before.

[Anonymous No.13255137]

>>13255123
>>13255131
The questions is what will win, not what's more ideal. Congrats, you believe in unicorns.

[Anonymous No.13255138]

>>13255123
>his conflict of interest is inarguable. Fascism simply ignores it, and presents a whole schizophrenic race-mythology as the answer instead, when in reality Capital doesn't give a damn what color of worker it exploits. Worse, Fascism is actually a very effective guard-dog for capitalism, keeping the angry laborer away from their own door by throwing them an "ethnic Other"
please read this before talking about what Fascism is
http://www.worldfuturefund.org/wffmaster/Reading/Germany/mussolini.htm

[Nikolai No.13255143]

>>13255114
>Of capitalism's inevitable collapse?
Yep.
>You're very obviously a "progressive" larping as a radical so as to apply such a linear conception of future events you will have no part in.
Truth be told people don't choose revolutions. Whenever I will have a part in one isn't something I will choose. I mean I sure hope I don't get into one since they are pretty shit but you get what I mean.
It's new form is governed by the same institutions of power, you think an environmental catastrophe would change that?
I don't get what you mean by the first sentence. That there will be hierarchies? of course they will, I'm not against that. As to what will enviromental catastrophe do? motivate people. A large part of why Russia adopted Marxism was because of a famine in 1891-1892. Lenin himself got radicalized in that time.

[Anonymous No.13255146]

>>13255137
>The questions is what will win
1-0 :^)

[Anonymous No.13255152]

>>13255011
Declaring yourself part of an "ism" means you're just another clueless world improver, and history doesn't give a fuck about human ideals and desires

[Anonymous No.13255153]

>>13255011
Not literature. You don't belong here.

[Anonymous No.13255158]

>>13255123
We are talking about fascism versus communism here, not communism versus capitalism

[Anonymous No.13255161]

>>13255123
>>13255048
Are you nonwhite? Why would a europeans want to be at the whims of this """international proletariat""" and however that is organized when all that matters is your own people, especially if their 'white' ie the most recessive phenotype, literally who gives a shit about the billions of brown people being exploited thats happening so we can be a consumption economy, global communism is the affectation of third worldism, the flood of Mud

[Anonymous No.13255164]

>>13255143
>That there will be hiearchies?
That those hierarchies will be unchanged. The possibility of revolution was foreclosed before anyone in this thread was even born.
Nothing changes because no one can change anything.

[Anonymous No.13255167]

>>13255153
What do we do with Philosophy threads then?

[Anonymous No.13255169]

>>13255146
>USSR
>Communist
Pick one.

[Anonymous No.13255176]

>>13255158
Fascism IS economically just a more extreme, racialized form of Capitalism. Hitler and Mussolini both privatized like crazy, with the former using Hugo Boss, Volkswagen, IG Farben etc as crucial elements of the war effort. They're inseparable.

[Anonymous No.13255177]

>>13255131
the bourgeoisie took the whole world to war to defeat the fascists, that's enough for me

[Nikolai No.13255181]

>>13255161
>Are you nonwhite?
Are slavs white?
>when all that matters is your own people
Agree, there's nothing more disgusting that seeing people working long hours in useless jobs.
>literally who gives a shit about the billions of brown people being exploited
I don't think much people care about them. It's not a matter of care. Rather if we can help them so be it.
>>13255164
That's untrue. USSR managed to do well seeing in how big of a reactionary place the revolution took place. I don't believe nothing can be changed and see no reason to think so.

[Anonymous No.13255182]

>>13255176
They had control over the privately owned corporations though, the capitalists were not in charge, the state was. Not that different than parts of the modern Chinese economy honestly.

[Anonymous No.13255197]

>>13255176
Because nothing says capitalism like the state eminently domaining your business and cutting you off from international markets. Fascist economics are qualitatively different from capitalism.

[Anonymous No.13255200]

>>13255169

[Anonymous No.13255201]

>>13255181
youre implying one should help the workers within your own country, again the most resonable form of socialism is implicitly admitted to be at the national level, otherwise your just a small white slice of the world and one with much much too much capital accumulation

[Anonymous No.13255209]

>>13255146
>In Moscow there is a screen of European ideas - Marxism - thought out in Europe in view of European realities and problems. Behind it there is a people, not merely ethnically distinct from the European, but what is much more important, of a different age to ours. A people still in the process of fermentation; that is to say, a child-people. That Marxism should triumph in Russia, where there is no industry, would be the greatest contradiction that Marxism could undergo. But there is no such contradiction, for there is no such triumph. Russia is Marxist more or less as the Germans of the Holy Roman Empire were Romans. New people have no ideas. When they grow up in an atmosphere in which an old civilization exists, or has existed, they disguise themselves in the ideas which it offers them. Here is the camouflage of Marxism.

[Anonymous No.13255210]

>>13255182
The capitalists literally helped put Hitler in power, thinking he would be a useful weapon against the Communists. (And tried to do the same in Britain with Mosley, who was backed by the owner of the Daily Mail - we can then see the same phenomenon today, where Peter Thiel and the Koch brothers bankroll God knows how many "alt-right" figures). It's always a game of "follow the money" with these guys.

[Anonymous No.13255215]

>>13255210
That doesn't change that the state was in control not the capitalists, and Fascists did all sorts of obviously not-capitalist stuff with their power, massive work programs and the like.

[Anonymous No.13255220]

>>13255181
>centuries of arbitrage monetizing the unrest and political impotence of the working class into manufactured, astroturfed revolutions
>exploit same sentiments as an ultimate arm for imperial power
>>I don't believe nothing can be changed and see no reason to think so
I can't fault you for being idealistic, I just think you're retarded.

[Nikolai No.13255222]

>>13255182
>the capitalists were not in charge, the state was.
If the state is full of capitalist, does that matter?
>Not that different than parts of the modern Chinese economy honestly.
China isn't fascist. Really the only reason it seems so is because fascism isn't in any way a serious political position. It's literally "We Wuz Romans" but for white people. Nothing more than reactionary scream that gained support because war and economic crisis. As for China I did recently some research and the state enterprises are real people's property. They are seen as public property and generally very little of their profits go to private owners.
>>13255201
Yeah of course you need a revolution to take place locally. has /pol/ rotted your brain so much away you can't use logic? You can be a nationalist (I'm not really one though), and an internationalist at the same time.

[Anonymous No.13255223]

>>13255210
Wall Street also bankrolled the Bolsheviks, who were obviously at odds with their ideology. Opportunism is no indicator of shared ideology

[Anonymous No.13255227]

>>13255200
What difference does it make either way? Reply to this post honestly or you're a coward.

[Anonymous No.13255229]

>>13255222
>China isn't fascist.
100-110 IQ midwit

[Anonymous No.13255230]

>>13255137
Fascism is the most ideal of all. It floats somewhere in the clouds, pretending that the world can be shaped by ideas of a bunch of strong-willed men (which is already less plausible than unicorns), when in facts these are all pawns, steered by historical forces according to what is at the moment required for capital to carry on its own valorization.

>>13255215
>The modern state, no matter what its form, is essentially a capitalist machine — the state of the capitalists, the ideal personification of the total national capital. The more it proceeds to the taking over of productive forces, the more does it actually become the national capitalist, the more citizens does it exploit. The workers remain wage-workers — proletarians. The capitalist relation is not done away with. It is, rather, brought to a head. (F. Engels)

[Anonymous No.13255234]

Poltical dialogue on the Internet is my favorite video game.

[Anonymous No.13255246]

>>13255230
>The workers remain wage-workers — proletarians
Have any of the socialist societies managed to get rid of wages dictated by a state?

[Nikolai No.13255248]

>>13255229
It's not unless your definition of facism is market economy and big state controll over it. If that what it takes to be a facist, I have no clue what facist in 20th century wanted to change.
>>13255223
Yeah, but no. The position was more anti Tsar than pro Bolshevik. For instance Schiff supported the Provisional Government.

[Anonymous No.13255252]

>>13255248
>The position was more anti Tsar than pro Bolshevik.
You can as easily say that the capitalists were more anti-communist than pro-Fascist

[Anonymous No.13255254]

>>13255210
this is an inversion of the right's conspiracy theory that "da joos" run antifa.

[Anonymous No.13255255]

>>13255230
It's only idealistic to you because you won't be invited.

[Anonymous No.13255260]

>>13255069
What makes class struggle a spook?

[Anonymous No.13255261]

>>13255252
Well the capitalists and communists fought together against he fascists...

[Anonymous No.13255264]

>>13255261
I mean in the mirror image of capitalists funding the Fascist rise to power that the guy brought up a couple posts back.

[Anonymous No.13255266]

>>13255230
>pretending that the world can be shaped by ideas of a bunch of strong-willed men (which is already less plausible than unicorns), when in facts these are all pawns, steered by historical forces according to what is at the moment required for capital to carry on its own valorization.

Ah yes, I too remember Alexander the Great and Mohammad and Jesus beings mere pawns directed by international finance rather than actually animated by non-material concerns and values. What an absurdly reductionist world view.

[Anonymous No.13255267]

>>13255161
>fascism only works for a small select group of people that I luckily happen to be a part of therefore it’s the best thing ever and we can’t do anything else

[Nikolai No.13255271]

>>13255252
Yeah, that's why Hitler purged whatever anti-capitalist movement there was in the nazi party. Even social democrats, who were left wing, stopped the Spartacist uprising in 2019, right? It's stupid theory since pretty much every socialist nation got restricted trade from capitalist ones.

[Anonymous No.13255273]

>>13255264
But you're definitely trying to say that fascism is a capitalist ally when that's not the case. I mean the whole world tried to stop them, they must have been on to something.

[Anonymous No.13255274]

>>13255248
Your worldview is too materialist. Culture matters much more than economics. Economics is just window dressing or an afterthought for Fascism. It just doesn't make sense unless you analyze the system as attempting to resolve the difference between competing reproductive strategies

[Anonymous No.13255276]

>>13255266
Alexander literally fought wars to gain access to trade routes. This is what happens when you don't start with the Greeks.

[Anonymous No.13255277]

>>13255271
Fascist natons weren't exactly treated well by capitalist nations either m8, as this guy points out>>13255273

[Anonymous No.13255278]

>>13255271
>stopped the Spartacist uprising in 201
Oh shit, must have missed that ;)

[Anonymous No.13255288]

>>13255274
>Culture matters much more than economics.
>leans into mic
>WRONG!
Culture is almost entirely determined by economics. Those cultural products that sell and generate profit, succeed, and more is made of them; those that fail to sell, or generate LESS profit, fail, and cease to be made.
>The ideas of the ruling class are in every epoch the ruling ideas, i.e. the class which is the ruling material force of society, is at the same time its ruling intellectual force.

[Anonymous No.13255291]

>>13255276
He also fought for Glory, a non-material concern. Attempting to declare all his actions merely material makes his continued war-fighting after establishing himself nonsensical. You're attempting to reduce complex human phenomenon down to single motivation.

[Anonymous No.13255292]

>>13255288
There's more to economy than cultural exports...

[Nikolai No.13255293]

>>13255277
Capitalist nations aren't frequently treated well amongst each other. It's not like there's a big bad board of capitalist with one goal in mind gathering in a skyscraper each sunday night.
>>13255278
Had a brainfart. Meant 1919 of course.

[Anonymous No.13255294]

>>13255288
>Culture is almost entirely determined by economics.
An economic system literally can't come into existence unless a culture creates it by means of technological innovations and social organizations of specific laws and patterns of behavior.

[Anonymous No.13255295]

>>13255291
He absolutely had materialistic qualities, why else would be bother with establishing hellenism if all he wanted to do was war

[Anonymous No.13255299]

>>13255266
>the world is exactly the same as it was 2000 years ago and future political forms I have no role in determining will reflect that
Okay, bro.

[Anonymous No.13255304]

>>13255011
>Which one will win?
If history is any indication, communism. At least for a little while. The matter is settled. Neither ideology is happening. Just get over it.

[Anonymous No.13255305]

>>13255123
>Capitalism has starved, beaten, tortured and bombed far more.
And how does that make the deaths from Communism any better?

[Anonymous No.13255308]

Is there a nonbiased and untriggered argument against fascism?

[Anonymous No.13255310]

>>13255304
>Neither ideology is happening.
Why?

[Anonymous No.13255318]

>>13255308
It's mean!!!!!! >:(

[Anonymous No.13255319]

>>13255305
Desu if all ideologies kill people maybe it's time to admit it's okay

[Anonymous No.13255320]

>>13255295
>He absolutely had materialistic qualities

Cool, but you're not listening. You are trying to tie his entire carrier to a single motivation, which become untenable under the light of the fact he was a glory seeker waging conflict and raising cities in his name well after the time he had become rich beyond most comprehension. The error you are committing is in assuming human action is completely reducible to a singular motivation. Even if that motivation is present in most or all people, it does not, by itself account for all human action and decision making. But instead of realizing this, you champion at the unum necessarium and subordinate ALL other motivation as somehow being directed by it.

[Anonymous No.13255322]

>>13255246
Wage labour is a relation that defines capitalism, so I'm not sure the question makes much sense in the way it was intended.

>>13255266
The only reductionist thing here is your interpretation of the materialist claim.

[Anonymous No.13255323]

>>13255318
It's nicer/better to the people than all of them though, you just have to live with your race for your nation.

[Anonymous No.13255326]

>>13255320
Not the same guy, just saying that saying he was only for glory is stupid because he did more than conquer.

[Anonymous No.13255327]

>>13255011
I used to be an orthodox marxist, who affirmed stubbornly in defiance of all evidence: no struggle but the class struggle! no truth but the cold hard facts of material production! But then I realised, all politics is and has always been identity politics. There is no reason for me as a working class heterosexual to support or align with the left in its current state. The spiritual values and sentiments that lead me to marxism in the first place are precisely those under attack by the left, ie. the western tradition, the belief in art, in love and in the individual. all give way to the managerial maxims of inclusion representation and diversity, all the while marxists larp like we are still in the industrial revolution. Marxism can't understand post industrial capitalism.
>>13255230
It is the leftists who are in thrall to the economy and want to reduce all life to accounting, the capitalist social engineers could not wish for better allies. love and family and friendship give way to ''emotional labour'' to be financially compensated. A wife and mother is oppressed but a girl who shows her asshole to wankers on the internet for spare change is an empowered ''sex worker''. anyone who criticises or is insufficiently enthusiastic about mass culture is probably a reactionary. soon universal proletarisation will be here, people will be reduced to blank economic units, then finally the abstract proletariat will rise up just as the algorithm predicted it, but really we are not dealing with abstractions we are dealing with people who are soon going to be far too atomised and demoralised to resist the system in any way. The truth is, anyone who dares criticise consumerism or corporatism or liberal empire is as good as a nazi to the ruling class and their foaming at the mouth leftist guard dogs.

[Anonymous No.13255329]

>>13255322
The wages in Fascist states were set by the state(in the cases of the large work programs), but the Engels quote was saying that was still capitalist. So I was asking if it was not basically the same situation as in socialist states

[Anonymous No.13255338]

>>13255326
>only for glory

Unlike the communists I actually did not and will not reduce human motivation to a single point. So I agree, he wanted more than glory, but that is different than saying it was not a major motivation, and still different than claiming he was purely materialistic.

[Anonymous No.13255341]

>>13255308
It has a poor track record delivering the things it promises

[Nikolai No.13255342]

>>13255305
Well a great deal of "communist" death are simply propaganda. To give an example all of those nations where famines happen, have had famines every few decades. China had three or so from 1900 to 1950. The famine that Mao is accused of starting was probably influenced by his actions, but they were undertaken because there were reports of food shortages. What didn't help is the information he got back wasn't reliable.
>>13255308
If literally the only thing your ideology has done is caused a world war and dissapeared within two decades. I don't think we even need to consider it.

[Anonymous No.13255344]

>>13255341
And communism doesn't lmao? If it weren't for the war, was fascism not working? It did amazing things for Germany.

[Anonymous No.13255348]

>>13255327
Same here. Still a "marxist" and completely alienated by the COINTELPRO "Left"

[Anonymous No.13255349]

>>13255323
"Race" and "nation" are unreal, immaterial concepts. Fascists can never agree what the "white race" actually entails - are Irish people white? Only blonde "Aryans"? Slavs? - and the "black race" or "Asian Race" is just as confused, with manifold visibly different subgroups. (It's particularly incoherent when talking about "Africans", as if an Ethiopian and a Kenyan were the same thing). Meanwhile "nations" constantly change borders, ethnic makeup, etc as a result of historical contingencies. What IS real, however, is the material divide of rich and poor, Have and Have Not. You have more in common with the worker of a different color, who stands next to you on the factory line, than either of you will ever have with Jeff Bezos.

[Anonymous No.13255355]

>>13255288
our ruling class is woke, pro diversity and pro lgbt, leftists are effectively enforcers of the ruling class, doing the dirty work for the pentagon, harvard, the alphabet agencies, cnn, nyt, google and madison avenue

[Anonymous No.13255356]

>>13255342
Fascism didn't cause world war 2. If anything the postwar treatment of Germany in WW1 caused fascism.

[Anonymous No.13255358]

>>13255342
>Mao defense task force has joined the chat
Mao's dead bro he doesn't need you to defend his honor for him.

[Anonymous No.13255360]

>>13255349
Pure obfuscation.

[Anonymous No.13255364]

>>13255349
Fascists were not in favor of white nationalism
>Grouped according to their several interests, individuals form classes; they form trade-unions when organized according to their several economic activities; but first and foremost they form the State, which is no mere matter of numbers, the suns of the individuals forming the majority. Fascism is therefore opposed to that form of democracy which equates a nation to the majority, lowering it to the level of the largest number (17); but it is the purest form of democracy if the nation be considered as it should be from the point of view of quality rather than quantity, as an idea, the mightiest because the most ethical, the most coherent, the truest, expressing itself in a people as the conscience and will of the few, if not, indeed, of one, and ending to express itself in the conscience and the will of the mass, of the whole group ethnically molded by natural and historical conditions into a nation, advancing, as one conscience and one will, along the self same line of development and spiritual formation (18). Not a race, nor a geographically defined region, but a people, historically perpetuating itself; a multitude unified by an idea and imbued with the will to live, the will to power, self-consciousness, personality

You can see they have a sort organic, idealist understanding of the idea

[Anonymous No.13255366]

>>13255327
The "left" you're talking about is not the Left at all, but neoliberals - tools of capitalism, who promote identity politics so they can sell little rainbow bags of Doritos at Pride week. They're already visibly disintegrating.

[Anonymous No.13255369]

>>13255342
>If literally the only thing your ideology has done is caused a world war and dissapeared within two decades. I don't think we even need to consider it.
I said untriggered. A world war was waged against its awesomeness, it was going to actually improve conditions for the worker.

[Anonymous No.13255375]

>>13255366
>They're already visibly disintegrating.
They seem to be the dominant power. I don't hear much about class warfare, but I hear a whole lot about intersectional grievance politics.

[Anonymous No.13255377]

>>13255344
The whole nazi economy was built on sinking sand, there is no way they could have remained economically solvent even in the best case scenario. Same with Japan. All economic gains made by the 20th century fascists were only apparent. Look at Speer's munitions "miracle", he just shuffled papers around and claimed looted weapons as his own creations, same with slave labour. They didn't build anything, just stole it from someone less fortunate

[Nikolai No.13255378]

>>13255274
Well that's just wrong. Economics is why we develop culture, which in turn develops economics. We didn't go from primitive live to modern live because of some racial superiority. If anything history proves this wrong since a great deal of those "superior races" were seen as snow niggers in the past.
>>13255356
Well, it kinda did and didn't. Of course the problems were still there even in fascism wouldn't exist but to have an idealogy which literally preaches racial superiority and racial war probably did more bad than good. I mean even Mussolini though hitler was a nutjob.

[Anonymous No.13255379]

>>13255329
Of course it was. But this only shows that calling them socialist is a mistake.

[Anonymous No.13255381]

>>13255369
>A world war was waged against its awesomeness
Nothing to do with the Germans sperging out and invading random places...

[Anonymous No.13255383]

>>13255349
Sure but ill likely have much more in common with the white guy on my other side

[Anonymous No.13255389]

>>13255364
They were in favor of nationalism, all I can see in this quote is that it's not specifically about race, but they did have a race rhetoric.

[Anonymous No.13255394]

>>13255375
The flashpoint is in 2016, with Trump and Brexit striking from the Right, mirrored by Sanders and Corbyn from the Left. Clinton/Blair esque "diversity capitalism" doesn't recover from that, it'll just take a while for its zombie form to fall over.

[Anonymous No.13255395]

>>13255121
So, intellectual categories matter.

Sometimes, people don’t have ulterior motives when they say things.

THOSE are the real things that matter, BELIEVE it or not. :3

>>13255127
They are all real, considering at various states of time, different forms of socialism have been enacted on earth (see: Plato, Lenin, Hitler, Jim Jones, Mao, etc etc)

There are free market forms of socialism, and restrictive, authoritarian set wage-kinds of socialism. :3

Learn how to read.

[Anonymous No.13255396]

>>13255377
They put germany to work and had endless building plans that they made headway on, how is that not a functioning economy?

[Anonymous No.13255397]

>>13255366
Explain criteria determining capital L "Left".
I have a WordPress with over twenty posts about why rich people suck and Stalin was based and redpilled. Am I "Left" yet?
I threw a brick through the window of a Starbucks one time. How about now?
One time I saw a small child with an American flag t-shirt and pushed him to the ground and told him he stinks. Is that what leftists do?

[Anonymous No.13255398]

>>13255389
Tell that to the Brazilian Integeralists. Catholic fascism fighting against capitalist chattel slavery. It's no wonder that the base of contemporary monarchist support is from the afro underclasses

[Anonymous No.13255405]

>>13255395
Learn how to be understood and argue your own points instead of posting quotes to argue for you and you people will look less like triggered idiots.

[Anonymous No.13255406]

>>13255396
A functioning Autarkic economy (which is what they intended to build) doesn't collapse in less than two decades. It was a complete failure by their own standards.

[Anonymous No.13255408]

>>13255378
Fascism was going to happen regardless. It just happened to be under Hitler with his retarded racism. Hitler was a very poor short sighted leader, if German fascism had taken place under someone like Bismark it might still be around today.

[Anonymous No.13255411]

>>13255406
Their economy didn't collapse they collapsed under war you dishonest faggots.

[Anonymous No.13255412]

>>13255389
They cared about race, but on a more specific scale than 'white'. More like 'Italian' and I imagine there was contention about the South

[Anonymous No.13255413]

>>13255405
I didn’t do any of that. None of what I said was stated by ANYONE else. I have collected these FACTS from reading BOOKS.

[Anonymous No.13255414]

>>13255408
>Fascism was going to happen
>retarded racism.
>p-please let me stay white people

[Anonymous No.13255417]

>>13255011
Both are for people that think that ideology can be a substitute for having real opinions.

This is made clear by the fact of your ability to switch so easily between the two: "but now I'm thinking Lenin was a faggot so I'm fascist now." This shows how peoples inclination toward either ideology is just a game of aesthetics and idol worship.

If i had to chose between the two I would choose fascism because it has cool aesthetics.

[Anonymous No.13255418]

>>13255411
A war that they started in which they had no possible path to victory (inb4 Danzig). It's just stupid. Nazism was the worst possible implementation of fascism imaginable. I'm more fascist than you'll ever be and I loathe Hitler

[Nikolai No.13255424]

>>13255408
>if German fascism had taken place under someone like Bismark it might still be around today.
Yeah, but that pretty much would be something close to Keynsian economics and some weird reactionary-ism. We unironically had and have something close to that around the world.

[Anonymous No.13255427]

>>13255397
>Explain criteria determining capital L "Left".
Real, material opposition to Capitalism,in whatever form. All else is posturing.
>I have a WordPress with over twenty posts about why rich people suck and Stalin was based and redpilled. Am I "Left" yet?
Probably. That sort of cultural artefact could have a useful propaganda impact, making people consider anti-Capitalist politics. (Unless of course you were doing it "ironically").
>I threw a brick through the window of a Starbucks one time. How about now?
Depends. Why were you doing it?
>One time I saw a small child with an American flag t-shirt and pushed him to the ground and told him he stinks. Is that what leftists do?
That's not really a useful anticapitalist tactic, no - the kid isn't exploiting anyone, and probably has no idea what that symbol even represents.

[Anonymous No.13255432]

>>13255418
Hasn't it been endlessly theorized that their down fall was attacking russia

[Anonymous No.13255438]

>>13255427
I'm asking what action meaningfully challenges the interconnected superstructure of global hegemony.
Don't say terrorism btw or I'll report you to Interpol.

[Anonymous No.13255439]

>>13255432
Even if Russia sat out the whole war, there is no way they would have lasted against Britain and the US, they simply didn't have the resources or manpower to go up against them.

[Anonymous No.13255446]

>>13255418
So why the fuck are you saying their economy failed when it was great

[Anonymous No.13255448]

>>13255414
Fascism was going to happen because the Prussian spirit still existed in Germany after the war, but the German empire that had given it form was destroyed. Hitler's racism and resultant short shortsightedness proved to be his undoing. He was a romantic, not a statesman. Mussolini and especially Mosley weren't racist, Mussolini only became racist at the end because of Hitler.

[Anonymous No.13255450]

>>13255439
Why did america enter the war?

[Anonymous No.13255452]

>>13255349
I think you leftists call it ''strategic essentialism''. It is impossible to deny there is a concerted attack in our folkways and everything we hold dear, led by a fanatical corporate elite for whom boogeyman like ''western culture'' and ''the white race'' are not only very real but also very evil and worthy of total destruction. At work, we are mandated to attend ''sensitivity training sessions'', in which a highly paid professional lectures us on our inherent subconscious racism, if we want to take our mind of work with culture we are again told we have nothing to say and should not say anything and just consume whatever slop the well intentioned managers of the culture industry are pushing this week. Leftist organisations in the west are exactly like neoliberal corporate environments, only worse. The unions have all been busted and the left pretty much belongs to the queers. I wish there could be such a thing as working class solidarity, men in overalls of all colors and creeds standing together in harmony, but man is a tribal and most of all a spiritual animal. besides it is the leftists who keep telling me it's all really about identity, so why don't take them at their word?

>Strategic essentialism, a major concept in postcolonial theory, was introduced in the 1980s by the Indian literary critic and theorist Gayatri Chakravorty Spivak.[1] It refers to a political tactic in which minority groups, nationalities, or ethnic groups mobilize on the basis of shared gendered, cultural, or political identity to represent themselves. While strong differences may exist between members of these groups, and amongst themselves they engage in continuous debates, it is sometimes advantageous for them to temporarily "essentialize" themselves and to bring forward their group identity in a simplified way to achieve certain goals

>>13255366
they are not dissintegrating, in fact they seem to be consolidating their power and gaining the full support of sillicon valley wall street and the military industrial complex. It is the muh real left that is fading into irrelevance or actively being coopted by the managerial

[Anonymous No.13255455]

>>13255448
Oh yeah it's the german culture, no way economics and geopolitics had anything to do with it popping up all over the world.

[Anonymous No.13255459]

>>13255450
Because Japan dragged them in. The way the Japanese government was structured meant that war was inevitable after the US oil embargo. It's just geopolitics

[Anonymous No.13255463]

>>13255349
>Fascists can never agree what the "white race" actually entails
It's more that you lefties will always play dumb and never accept any explanation that is being offered to you. You don't want "Volk" to be a real thing and therefore you're blocking any definition of it, no matter how valid it is.

[Anonymous No.13255470]

>>13255438
the situationism to esoteric hitlerism pipeline is real

[Anonymous No.13255472]

>>13255452
The left is disintegrating because they've abandoned left values, they're just a bunch of hypocrites now trying harder and harder to sell the narcissism that is antithetical to what they're supposed to believe.

[Anonymous No.13255473]

>>13255438
All sorts. Organizing a general strike, would be the most obvious, but even smaller-scale efforts like unionizing your particular workplace throw a wrench in the capitalist machine. There's conflict in ideological spaces too, what our Nazi friends helpfully named "Kulturkampf" - publishing a book with Socialist/Communist themes can be a propaganda victory. And since you mention it, individual terrorism isn't actually all that effective - looking at Ted Kaczynski, for instance, his bombing spree probably hurt the cause of anarcho-primitivism by making him look like a deranged lunatic, when previously he'd been a rather respected intellectual figure.

[Anonymous No.13255474]

>>13255459
Why did america go to europe though

[Anonymous No.13255478]

>>13255076

A non-partisan study done in the early 1980s found that per capita socialist countries performed much better in quality of life measures such as infant and child mortality, lifespan, access to medicine, nutritional needs met, and levels of /lit eracy. Surpisingly, in the middle and lower classes, the per capita income was roughly equal, if a little less.

[Anonymous No.13255479]

>>13255455
I've read all of Spengler's essays written in the 1920s on what would come to be fascism, and he was very popular with both Mussolini and Hitler, Mussolini personally translating everything he wrote into Italian. The sentiment at the time was a clear reaction against Anglo-American capitalism, old organic culture vs new inorganic money politics. The clash between them was inevitable after WW1. It certainly was culture that brought about fascism.

[Anonymous No.13255480]

>>13255011

Communists obviously, they already won many times. But the circle of life depends on the balance of power being switched back and forth between them. The Germans just seem to forget their place every century or so and need to be beaten and destroyed to near extinction in order to get them back in line.

[Anonymous No.13255481]

>>13255478
The only problem of course is that not all races are equal so a multicultural socialism depends heavily on more capable races and makes them an indentured class. Socialism should be national.

[Anonymous No.13255483]

>>13255474
Because the United States was already in an undeclared war with Germany. The Nazis could maybe not have officially declared war on America and delayed major actions for a couple of months, but they were already in a de facto shooting war so it's not like it would have mattered in the long run

[Anonymous No.13255487]

>>13255472
The problem with Marxism: it can explain everything except its own consistent failure as a political project. The working class seems destined to be the eternal cuckold of history.

[Anonymous No.13255488]

>>13255473
Lmao imagine being that guy at work handing out literal propaganda

[Anonymous No.13255490]

>>13255479
>I've read
So what
The economic situation of Germany at the time was obviously the main reason for the rise of fascism.

[Anonymous No.13255498]

>>13255490
You sound like a marxist who is blind to anything that isn't money related.

[Anonymous No.13255502]

>>13255478
So they needed to kill 65 million civilians to get to a debatably equivalent standard of living as the West? That's really not an accomplishment. You can give a minority better nutrition if you drastically reduce the number of mouths to feed. That's more social Darwinistic than even the most depraved nazi

[Anonymous No.13255503]

>>13255483
Why were they at war?

[Anonymous No.13255504]

>>13255481

So you'd rather put a mental midget in a position of power because of his race just because of some avg. IQ studies? Got it! You're a moron.

[Anonymous No.13255506]

>>13255503
American merchant ships were being attacked by german u-boats even before the war officially started.

[Anonymous No.13255507]

>>13255498
You sound like a racist antiracist.

[Anonymous No.13255508]

>>13255490
so why did the communists and the social democrats fail then, they were for the working class weren't they? even the marxists of the frankfurt school recognise there were deep psychological reasons for the rise of fascism

[Anonymous No.13255511]

>>13255504
No, I'd rather not have my race become indentured servants of an inferior race.

[Anonymous No.13255517]

>>13255508
Are you even aware of what a fucked situation pre ww2 germany was? They took their paychecks home in barrels. The jews fucked germany.

[Anonymous No.13255518]

>>13255473
>All sorts. Organizing a general strike, would be the most obvious, but even smaller-scale efforts like unionizing your particular workplace throw a wrench in the capitalist machine.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_Massacre
So noble, all of those precious wrenches really showed those Imperialist pigs!
>There's conflict in ideological spaces too, what our Nazi friends helpfully named "Kulturkampf" - publishing a book with Socialist/Communist themes can be a propaganda victory.
There's 3-4 "anarchist bookstores" every quarter mile in Montreal full of them, somehow I think chalking one more up as a victory is a little overzealous.
Your shit does not work, bro. Your entire identitarian consumer persona sustains inner city vegan cafes with 4.5/5 Yelp score and the small press lit mags.
You're wasting your energy in impotent rage.

[Anonymous No.13255524]

>>13255452
> It is impossible to deny there is a concerted attack in our folkways and everything we hold dear, led by a fanatical corporate elite for whom boogeyman like ''western culture'' and ''the white race'' are not only very real but also very evil and worthy of total destruction
There is an attack, to be sure, but it's not because the corporate elite are "fanatical", or "hate" Western/white culture as such. They don't care what kind of culture they profit from, all that matters is money itself. They just want to create a multicultural state of affairs, so they can extract the maximum profits from all races, creeds, etc at once, and "sensitivity" training (and things like it) further that goal. Capitalism destroys everything it touches, not just racial or cultural concepts.

>All fixed, fast-frozen relations, with their train of ancient and venerable prejudices and opinions, are swept away, all new-formed ones become antiquated before they can ossify. All that is solid melts into air, all that is holy is profaned, and man is at last compelled to face with sober senses his real conditions of life, and his relations with his kind.

>I wish there could be such a thing as working class solidarity, men in overalls of all colors and creeds standing together in harmony,
And there can be. The "left" that "belonged to the queers" was more a Liberal phenomenon, pro-capitalist, and using things like LGBT rights as a way to offer "progress" that wouldn't impede the bottom line of profit. All that's required is greater class consciousness, which is already happening - the level of public discontent with Capitalism hasn't been this high since the 1930s.

[Anonymous No.13255527]

>>13255506
Yeah but there was a spirit of protectionism that existed at the time regardless. There were a lot of merchant ship casualties AFTER war was declared in 1940. Germany knew not to mess with America too much :3

[Anonymous No.13255532]

>>13255506
Merchant ships that were aiding their enemies.

[Anonymous No.13255533]

>>13255527
The point is that an american intervention in WW2 was inevitable and the germans should have realized this and planned accordingly

[Anonymous No.13255540]

>>13255504
just take a look at the average representatives of the lgbtsjw community and the woke leftist PoCs, it is obvious these people aren't like us and actively see us as enemies. Much of what you see as universal values are actually christian values. A society is only as strong as its weakest members, more freedom for the weak means less freedom for the strong. Some people will never be happy, any concession to their insanity will only drag us down to their level, instead of encouraging their delusions, we should do the most merciful thing and help them end their lives in a painless and humane fashion.

>If I had my way, I would build a lethal chamber as big as the Crystal Palace, with a military band playing softly, and a Cinematograph working brightly; then I’d go out in the back streets and main streets and bring them in, all the sick, the halt, and the maimed; I would lead them gently, and they would smile me a weary thanks; and the band would softly bubble out the ‘Hallelujah Chorus’.- DH LAWRENCE

[Anonymous No.13255541]

>>13255518
>one strike in one place was met with violence, so all strikes everywhere are useless
Neoliberal logic, ladies and gentlemen.

[Anonymous No.13255544]

>>13255533
Why would they intervene if fascism was pro capitalist like you antifas are trying to say?

[Anonymous No.13255546]

>>13255544
Because capitalists compete viciously with each other. It's what they do.

[Anonymous No.13255547]

>>13255541
Liberal logic is to hide logic.

[Anonymous No.13255551]

>>13255546
So there has been a trend of capitalist countries going to war with each other for dominance you say, could you bring out more examples than fascism?

[Anonymous No.13255552]

>>13255541
Link exactly one that's taken place in the last twenty years and accomplished anything whatsoever.

[Anonymous No.13255553]

>>13255544
How could you come to that conclusion? It isn't a matter of ideology, continental fascism was a threat to Anglo-American economic hegemony, of course they would conflict with their rivals

[Anonymous No.13255555]

>>13255508
National socialism was in fact socialism, a worker’s party movement very similar to Marxist communism.

Are you seriously just now realizing this?

[Anonymous No.13255561]

>>13255541
>>13255547
>strike being met with violence is cherry picking!
Are capitalists evil or not? Get your shit straight, you fucking retards.

[Anonymous No.13255566]

>>13255555
>penta pents
Checked

It should be obvious to all from this thread that people against fascism don't know what it is.

[Anonymous No.13255568]

>>13255552
Like those yellow vest protests are still ongoing and literally cant think of one thing they actually changed

[Anonymous No.13255574]

>>13255552
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_West_Virginia_teachers%27_strike

[Anonymous No.13255575]

>>13255561
Capitalists are evil, national socialism defeats them.

[Anonymous No.13255582]

>>13255546
then why did capitalists team up with the communists in world war ii? could it be the same reason why american corporations support antifa and attack the right no matter how moderate?

You say Marx and Jesus Christ I say Nietzsche and Darwin

[Anonymous No.13255586]

>>13255582
>american corporations support antifa
Show me literally one example of this.

[Anonymous No.13255588]

>>13255574
I mean this is nice but nowhere near stopping capitalism, unless commies actually think death by a thousand cuts will actually work

[Anonymous No.13255594]

>>13255588
Pretty sure they tried to say earlier in the thread that it's fascism that won't displace the bourgeoisie because they're trying to take it down from the inside too.

[Anonymous No.13255596]

>>13255555
It was a movement of all classes for the benefit of "the nation". Communist is a movement of one class for the destruction of all nations. "Inter-class, one nation" vs. "one class, inter-nation". Opposites.

[Anonymous No.13255598]

>>13255588
That's the difference between a "strike" and a "general strike" - the former is one workplace or sector of the economy, like the McDonald's strikes going on now, while the latter is workers across all sectors of the economy. Luxemburg has a good essay on this -
>https://www.marxists.org/archive/luxemburg/1906/mass-strike/index.htm

[Anonymous No.13255604]

>>13255574
Congrats on finding one, unfortunately this one is shit at satisfying the ends of your Left with a capital L.
They were back to work within a month after obtaining a higher salary, cycling itself back into consumption to feed the capitalist machine. There's nothing inherently political about obtaining a livable wage, it's just a proactive step above basic survival.

[Anonymous No.13255610]

>>13255011
Thomas Carlyle is the forefather of fascism.

[Anonymous No.13255611]

>>13255596
modern capitalism is a movement of the ruling class for the destruction of all nations, communists are controlled opposition merely stooges for the ruling class. Notice how all communists seem to be students, media proggesional activists, rather than actual workers? they will never bite the hand that feeds them. they reserve their real contempt for the unwoke masses.

[Anonymous No.13255613]

>>13255604
>There's nothing inherently political about obtaining a livable wage
There is when you have political enemies who are actively trying to prevent you from doing it.

[Anonymous No.13255616]

they're solved problems
nobody's reviving this shit

[Anonymous No.13255621]

>>13255611
>Notice how all communists seem to be students, media proggesional activists, rather than actual workers?
I shift pallets at a Walmart, comrade, what do you do?

[Anonymous No.13255623]

>>13255011
>which will win
they've both lost already
they both got btfo by capitalist democracies
if i have to pick between just these 2 incredibly shitty ideologies for fat incels then i guess fascism
they looked cooler and when they killed millions it was on purpose

[Anonymous No.13255635]

>>13255613
What difference does it make, they gave them a W and emboldened larpers on the Internet to think they can challenge unequivocal state authority. Echo of a dead end.

[Anonymous No.13255642]

>>13255621
Something better than shifting pallets at Walmart!

LOL. No wonder you’re a communist.

[Anonymous No.13255648]

Both are dead ideologies. What you call "communism" is largley just some edgy performance by some more radical liberals, and what you call "fascism" is just right-wing populism with more roots in a reactionary interpretation of liberalism than in anything ressembling the national developmental political project of fascism, whose legacy only lives in Third World socialist movements like Bolivarianism, Baathism and Peronisn, and even then only barely.

[Anonymous No.13255652]

>>13255305
Capitalism: kill the weak
Communism: kill the strong
Fascism: kill the degenerate

I think the choice is obvious.

[Anonymous No.13255666]

The liveable wage meme is so dumb its never consistent, just enact UBI already, then have the machines turn us into biofuel

[Anonymous No.13255667]

>>13255611
Capitalism is a "movement" for whatever helps augment value. Less borders are definitely conductive to this in a way, but so is competition among national capitals. We might end up with a couple of super-nations, but likely not with no nations at all. After all, there are few better tools than nationalism for duping the prole into believing that he and mr moneybags have common interest.

[Anonymous No.13255668]

>>13255642
Well, just so. Communism would improve my material situation, and those of all the workers around me. But here we see the "catch-22" tactic of those who defend Capitalism - if you oppose it, and you're from a somewhat privileged background, you're a hypocritical "champagne socialist", and if you're from a poor background, you're a "jealous poorfag". Nothing matters, as long as the ruling system and class are protected.

[Anonymous No.13255672]

>>13255652
by definition the only killing that will happen is the strong killing the weak.

[Anonymous No.13255675]

>>13255666
The way things are currently set up the poor gets more from benefits than ubi would give them that's why yang has no chance

[Anonymous No.13255679]

>>13255675
It's a lot more touchy than that. It has to do with race and sex. UBI is blind to the intersectional oppression stack

[Anonymous No.13255680]

>>13255672
So if a bunch of children take down an adult children are stronger than adults?

[Anonymous No.13255686]

>>13255679
Lol fuck off nonwhite leech, I guarantee you I will be killing some of your kind no matter what happens.

[Anonymous No.13255688]

>>13255680
da. A collective, when acting as a collective, can be quite strong. I realize this is tautological, but it's a tautology people enjoy not confronting.

[Anonymous No.13255689]

>>13255680
Collectively, yes. Particularly if you had a situation where children outnumber adults thousands to one, the way workers outnumber capitalists.

[Anonymous No.13255691]

>>13255668
LOL. I’m just joking around man.

Shifting pallets is fine, eventually you’ll get promoted if you work hard enough. I used to work in a warehouse. I still kind of do :3

Nothing bad about hard work man, don’t get so worked up, you’re fine.

[Anonymous No.13255693]

>>13255686
Im white actually and I was explaining why the leeches don't want UBI. We're at the point where universal welfare is seen as reactionary white male politics. 'raceblind' is a pejorative among progressives.

But please do fucking kill me

[Anonymous No.13255702]

>>13255689
I can go back and repost individuals with all those statements if you want.

[Anonymous No.13255703]

>>13255048
Fascism is literally the only ideology to have ever solved class struggle.

Class is literally a spook. It's completely meaningless and doesn't exist in the world, in reality you have different humans succeeding at different tasks to different extends and some people exceed at more valuable skills.
Killing each other based on that is so enormously retarded that only a communist could think of it.

[Anonymous No.13255705]

>>13255030
Literally the exact same is true for Fascism :3

[Anonymous No.13255706]

>>13255679
socialism/marxism is also blind to the intersectional oppression stack, that's why the of woke pee oh cees in the media regard even a milquetoast socdem like bernie sanders as a borderline white supremacist. intersectionalism requires that the 'bad people' be punished and the victims exalted, the problem is most of the working class in the western world falls into the category of 'bad people', so the only hope for the left is to replace them as quick as possible

[Anonymous No.13255713]

>>13255703
>Class is literally a spook. It's completely meaningless and doesn't exist in the world
Again, wrong. There is a working class, who do not own any productive forces except their own labor, which they MUST sell in order to stay alive. There is also an owning-class, who DO own productive forces (factories, machinery, real estate, raw mineral resources, etc), and can buy other people's labor to make a profit while doing little or no labor themselves. This is the situation; the only question is how one deals with it.

[Anonymous No.13255715]

>>13255705
There is some truth to what you say, on the economic side of things. There is still a ministry which sets wages, for instance.

Culturally speaking, the values of Marxism and Fascism have historically been opposed. But economically, interestingly enough, they are almost the same. This is similar to the thread I posted earlier, those two philosophies are two terrible sides of the same materialist coin: a materialist coin which seeks to subjugate the masses to discrete economic control.

Now Schumpeter’s brand of socialism, no matter how off his technicalities were, is efficient, since the wages are still different based on the different jobs.

[Anonymous No.13255719]

>>13255705
>Marxism is a brand of fascism. Not all Fascists are Marxists, just like how not all Socialists are Fascists. :3
sounds like boomer talk

[Anonymous No.13255721]

>>13255719
That’s not what he meant, and you know it :3

[Anonymous No.13255724]

>>13255703
That's because the communist is the less capable desiring control.

[Anonymous No.13255731]

>>13255713
But that is retarded distinction. The lawyer making 300.000k a year in a big lawfirm is "working class" and the self-employed tradesman who is barely making ends meet is part of the "owning class?

This is absurd, even thinking about having a "struggle" based on that distinction is retarded.

[Anonymous No.13255736]

>>13255724
Hey that’s a cool picture. And very true. Truly, the freedom to gain (and lose) large amounts of money is a great thing indeed. The philosophies that revolve around this style of government/employment are good ones indeed :3

[Anonymous No.13255744]

>>13255731
lawyers are working class?
does working-class mean something else to people who aren't from bongland?

[Anonymous No.13255747]

>>13255736
I'm a socialist, a national socialist. Power to the people who are my equals that share mutual interests.

[Anonymous No.13255754]

>>13255715
>But economically, interestingly enough, they are almost the same.
Fascists aren't economic ideologues, that is, I think, what many leftists (and to a hilarious degree conservatives too) simply do not really understand.
They are simply doing what works.

>those two philosophies are two terrible sides of the same materialist coin
Fascism is utterly non materialistic, where did you get that idea from?

[Anonymous No.13255759]

>>13255744
>lawyers are working class?
Working at a giant law firm certainly means that a lawyer does NOT own any means of productions, but is selling his labour (at a very high price) which is the dichotomy presented to me.

[Anonymous No.13255766]

>>13255759
Wtf is he going to own? The drywall?

[Nikolai No.13255768]

>>13255724
This image is so dumb, I don't even know how to respond. None of the planners lived in luxury comparable to ones capitalist do. It's just was a boring but good paying job that at best had the pay one can expect from jobs like engineer or doctor.

[Anonymous No.13255774]

>>13255754
>They are simply doing what works
Which is economic control. Stricter economic control as to the rewards of labor and a deterministic stance on where the workers worked developed coeval with ministerial direction for finance and the economy. Jobs were determined, places were determined.

National Socialism, from an economic point of view, is socialist, in the way we understand socialism.

It does work, especially for warring nations. But again, we have no idea if this kind of state really functions in peacetime, and we could imagine that it would fade towards capitalism after the economically-motivated movement has ceased its course.

>Fascism is utterly non materialistic, where did you get that idea from?
Darwinist Eugenics of course! :3

[Anonymous No.13255776]

>>13255768
*Laughs in Caviar and Stolichnaya*

[Anonymous No.13255788]

>>13255766
What?
You (or someone else) presented the dichotomy of:
Working class, owning no means of production except his own labour
Owning class, owning means of production which he can use to employ people with

Clearly a lawyer working in a big lawfirm is in the first category, as he does NOT own any means of production's besides his labour.

[Nikolai No.13255825]

>>13255776
If I had to plan the economy, just to get myself some drink and caviar, I would have hanged myself. The "I'm certainly not StoneToss" guy's comic you posted is fucking idiotic. At least he could have choosen an other high ranking job, which can be romanticized. You know a high ranking diplomat probably travels once in a while.

[Anonymous No.13255830]

>>13255774
Yeah, pretty much exactly my point. Fascists aren't economic ideologues. During war you want a very different economy then during peacetime.
Having a more integrated, state (meaning military) controlled economy is what you want during wartime.

The point is there isn't a "Fascist economic doctrine", like a Marxist one, simply because the fascists didn't believe in such a thing.

>Darwinist Eugenics of course! :3
Is that supposed to refute something?

[Anonymous No.13255848]

>>13255825
When you’ve shown me a form of government where the leaders are out in the field tilling the soil, then I’ll be happy :3

[Anonymous No.13255881]

>>13255768
>None of the planners lived in luxury
Delusional and missing the point

[Anonymous No.13255885]

>80% of posters ITT are /pol/tards
This board is officially dead

[Anonymous No.13255896]

>>13255885
Welcome to the polarized political climate.

[Anonymous No.13255914]

>>13255885
you wish that were true, but what's actually happened is a huge number of men that might have been left wing 10 years ago have instead become far right

[Anonymous No.13255918]

>>13255885
>people don't necessarily think the common ownership of the means of production would necessarily produce utopia, either because of the economic calculation problem, the violence necessary in achieving such a political revolution or because of deficiencies in Marx's theory of alienation
>"gee, they must be Nazis"

[Anonymous No.13255922]

>>13255885
Nobody on lit is a /pol/tard.
/pol/ is a Reddit infested shithole for people who have never had a book in their hand.

[Anonymous No.13255932]

>>13255914
this, I used to be a marxist, before getting involved in actual leftist organisations and realising these people don't care about me and will side with the corporations every single time

[Anonymous No.13255940]

>>13255830
It’s actually exactly opposite your point. I’m saying the entire reason National Socialism was so successful was because of the destitute proletariat resulting from Germany’s post-WWI Economy.

It was a movement founded entirely on its economic necessity. :3

[Nikolai No.13255942]

>>13255848
Well if they would be tilling the soil, who would do the leading? The truth is they couldn't get much wealthy. After 1992, where massive privatization took place the vacation resorts, which citizens had two weaks to spend every year, have become property of the rich and within five years the wealth distributuion in Russia became close to the one in US. There's much less to gain in socialist economy from higher positions. It reminds me of the interview from the book "Women have better sex under socialism", in which they ask a doctor from GDR about his sex life back there and now. His response was that he has much better now since back then money didn't work on women. He complained how one needed to be "interresting" to well, have sex.
>>13255922
>/pol/ is a Reddit infested shithole for people who have never had a book in their hand.
Honestly this. I feel braincells dying every time I open /pol/.
>>13255932
Things that didn't happen #4561

[Anonymous No.13255951]

>>13255896
It is only like this on this website. Everywhere else these /pol/tard types are mocked and excluded as they should be (even though that is probably too polite and enables them).
>>13255914
Yes because they are vulnerable people being taken advantage of and radicalized online in the same way ISIS radicalizes people into joining their cause.