/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13155486]

Why is this still considered a "classic"? Show me 1 (one) book of literature who has this as their main influence. It has become one of those books in which everyone agrees with its supposedly importance, but no one actually reads. It's so mind numbingly boring, repetitive and stupid, with the most one dimensional characters ever, with the exception of a few inspired scenes (Hector with his wife and son comes to mind). No wonder Julyan Janes thought Homer wasn't concious.

[Anonymous No.13155502]

>>13155486
>Show me 1 (one) book of literature who has this as their main influence
Are you aware of what influence is and how it works?

[Anonymous No.13155508]

>>13155486
ikr, who the fuck is michael reck and why would anyone care about iliad book
Ὅμηρος's Ἰλιάς is a true classic though

[Anonymous No.13155515]

>>13155486
Iliad > Odyssey

[Anonymous No.13155527]

>>13155486
>Why is this still considered a "classic"?

So retards like you might accidentally stumble into an education.

[Anonymous No.13155533]

>>13155515
Not really, The Iliad is the Blood Meridian of its time, but instead of the judge murdering natives and mexicans, it's a random hero throwing a spear on someone. But the basic structure of repetition is the same.

[Anonymous No.13155539]

>>13155508
>Ὅμηρος's
Learn Greek you stupid plebe

[Anonymous No.13155545]

>>13155527
Stop parroting opinions. Defend the mess that is The Iliad i dare you.

[Anonymous No.13155630]

I've gotten like 2/3rds through it and I have to say it's pretty boring. The books /lit/ told me to read first for context were more interesting than the actual Iliad itself. I'm not sure what I'm really supposed to be getting out of it. There are brief moments where the imagery is very pretty or the interactions are exciting, but most of it feels like work.
>Another needlessly detailed metaphor that lasts several dozen lines
>Another battle that's just "[Literally who] was then slain by [Greek/Trojan hero] with a [word for attack] to the [body part], darkening his eyes..." repeated far past the point of being annoying
>Another overly verbose guy saying something extremely simple stretched out for paragraphs
>Another list of names identifying every single insignificant person who never actually does anything important, most never even brought up again

This shit is hard to read. I just can't stop my eyes from rolling every time some guy just needs to say "Hold up, I need to tie my shoe" but starts off "Oh, my high lord Agamemnon, son of Atreus, king of kings and lord of all Akhaia, if but for a moment you will hear me out in my most humble request..." and I see the quotation marks don't close for another two pages.

[Anonymous No.13155703]

>>13155630
It's really fucking terrible. It's not even "epic", because you never get a feel of the battlefield as this wide plain in which multiple warriors are fighting for their lives. Instead, you get terrible close ups which consists of, like you said, literal who's, spearing literal who's who are never mentioned again. Particularly funny is when Homer mention their father, who almost always is "a wealthy man who had X in Z island". I can imagine it being great its time, but i can't stomach it. I've read it in multiple translations, across two different languages, and i still can't see what's so good about this poem. I give up.

[Anonymous No.13155708]

>>13155630
We must be reading a different book, I find the battles exciting. Imagining the epic clash of the Argives and the Trojans (and the allies) is pretty fun, and hearing how the battle sways form one side when one hero sets among the rank and file like a lion or when a god chooses to step into the fray is great. Also the quieter moments, like when Hectors goes to see his wife and son, or the Argive camp at night when they are lamenting their expected loss the next morning - all these things really bring it to life for me. Maybe it's just me. Party like when Paris shoots Diamed through the foot and Diamed treats it like a scratch, all while taunting Paris for using a bow. I am at the point where many of the heroes (Agammenmon, Ajax, Diamed, Ulysses) are getting injured. I don't know what happens next but I am pretty sure Achilles is about to start to rip and tear. Honestly pretty excited for the unleashing of his rage.

I am reading the Samuel Butler translation, maybe it's just not a book for you.

[Anonymous No.13155733]

>>13155708
And when you hear of the javelin thrown by Diomed (I got his name wrong last) goes right into the dude's face, smashing his teeth and throwing him out of the chariot. Really brings the brutality of this war to life.

[Anonymous No.13155740]

>>13155708
The quiet moments are literally the only good passages in the book. Helen and Priam from up the walls of naming and telling Odysseus, Ajax and Agammenon anecdotes in book 3, or Achilles speech to Ajax and Odysseus in book 9 or Hector's son getting jump scared from his father in book 6 are truly the highlights between the mess that is this book.

[Anonymous No.13155751]

>>13155708
The quiet moments are literally the only good passages in the book. Helen telling Odysseus, Ajax and Agammenon anecdotes in book 3, or Achilles speech to Ajax and Odysseus in book 9 or Hector's son getting jump scared from his father in book 6 are truly the highlights between the mess that is this book.

[Anonymous No.13155861]

>>13155708
That's the thing, the actual story itself is a super interesting one, it's just being told poorly. The battle between the Argives and Danaans, or whatever they call themselves, is indeed really cool. The problem is that there's absolutely no sense of scale like >>13155703 said. How many people are charging at eachother? I've got no fucking idea, because every battle was a dozen guys on either side with silly names and rich fathers spearing eachother in locations almost always described in their relative location to the nipple.

When the Trojans are pushing the battle hard and the Greek ships are supposedly in danger, I have absolutely no idea how many people there were or what the scene really looked like at all. It'll say there's this massive battle line with Greek soldiers using choke points in their walls to hold the massive Trojan army back because if they break through they'll burn the ships, but a few dozen lines later some Greek guy is leaping around between ships using a bow to shoot individual torch wielding Trojans that were apparently up until that point running through the Greek camp unchecked. So was there this massive push between armies consisting of thousands of Trojans trying to push through a wall of Greeks, or was it a skirmish between a few hundred men, or something in between? People keep taking breaks from fighting to just meander around their tents and hold long conversations about bullshit which implies it's a large scale battle happening over a long period of time real fucking far away, but then they just acknowledge that a life endangering threat is basically a few feet outside their doorstep. It's like it's actively trying to be confusing.

[Anonymous No.13156096]

>>13155486
I read all of it for a year as it is taught after the Odyssey in the last year of the Greek middle school curiculum. It sets a great base for things to come in first year high school; Herodotus on the Greco-punic wars in modern Greek and Antigone by Sophocles in ancient Greek.

[Anonymous No.13156480]

>>13155861
>>13155751
I see your point, I just don't experience that disconnect when I read it.

[Anonymous No.13156517]

>>13155545
>Defend the mess that is The Iliad i dare you.
are you fucking stupid? maybe you didnt understand it, you were probably expecting capeshit: the book and instead got a book on rage and manhood, on hierarchies of power and rebellion
just stream a marvel movie, retard

[Anonymous No.13156528]

>>13156517
Cringe. Stop speaking in memes you absolute retard.

[Anonymous No.13156558]

>>13156528
>Cringe
>>>/r/eddit

[Anonymous No.13156965]

>>13156517
this to be honest

[Anonymous No.13157040]

>>13155508
>Ὅμηρος's

[Anonymous No.13157050]

>>13155486
>>13155703
>>13155861
>Epic means big Marvel movie special effects in book form
>English literary standards invented 30 years ago define what makes storytelling good
>excitement comes from dimestore hook and cliffhanger techniques like the Davinci Code
>story should only exist to excited and titilate, not instill cultural values and role models
When did this board become so infested with braindead pseuds with fried dopamine receptors?

[Anonymous No.13157294]

>>13157050
>you don't like what i like so therefore you a marvel watcher dumb dumb!!
>excitement comes from repeating the same line again and again because the text was meant to be portrayed orally, making it easier for the poet to remember
>a text should be analyzed under "cultural values" and "role models", whatever that means, and not by their aesthetics
When did this board lost their critical ability and started parroting opinions and talking about everything through the lens of memes? It was like this from the start, actually.

[Anonymous No.13157387]

Can we just talk about how amazing the Iliad is instead of this gay thread?

Come, friend, you too must die. Why moan about it so?
Even Patroclus died, a far, far better man than you.
And look, you see how handsome and powerful I am?
The son of a great man, the mother who gave me life
a deathless goddess. But even for me, I tell you,
death and the strong force of fate are waiting.
There will come a dawn or sunset or high noon
when a man will take my life in battle too—
flinging a spear perhaps
or whipping a deadly arrow off his bow."