/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.13146841]

whoah...

[Anonymous No.13146862]

you know, the fedora bro is onto something

[R Æ V S S Q A N D V S !KNDYYIIins No.13147151]

>>13146862

ATHEISTS ARE ONTOLOGICAL NIHILISTS, AS SUCH, THEY ARE ONTO NOTHING.

[Anonymous No.13147168]

>>13146862
>there's a lot of hate in Christianity
>Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal. 2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, but have not love, it profits me nothing. 4 Love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; 5 does not behave rudely, does not seek its own, is not provoked, thinks no evil; 6 does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; 7 bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. 8 Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away. 9 For we know in part and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away. 11 When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things.12 For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.13 And now abide faith, hope, love, these three; but the greatest of these is love.

I'm having a hard time finding the hatred part

[Anonymous No.13147306]

>>13147151
ontological nihilism is a contradiction of terms. go back to posting that ridiculous map of america, faggot.

[Anonymous No.13147757]

[Anonymous No.13147777]

>>13147757
yikes. does someone need skydaddy to give him a reason to live?

[Anonymous No.13147785]

fuck Kev, he's a cunt btw

[Anonymous No.13147800]

>>13147777
>skydaddy
Lol

[Anonymous No.13147802]

>>13147800
>Lol
cope.

[Anonymous No.13147813]

me on the left btw

[Anonymous No.13147910]

>>13147777
>does someone need skydaddy to give him a reason to live?
yikes

[Anonymous No.13147924]

>>13147910
>worldviews who tell people they will be eternally tortured if they commit suicide have a lower suicide rate than ones that don't
woah

[Anonymous No.13147974]

>>13147924
>>worldviews who tell people they will be eternally tortured if they commit suicide have a lower suicide rate than ones that don't
it isnt wrong if it helps people overcome their life difficulties instead of kiling themselfs

[Anonymous No.13148003]

>>13147910
Have you transitioned?

[Anonymous No.13148012]

>>13147974
people have to freedom to kill themselves if they so desire. what's wrong with that?

[Anonymous No.13148084]

>>13147910
>Muslim suicide rates the lowest

I assume they didn't account for suicide by self-detonated explosion.

[Anonymous No.13148089]

>>13148084
Do you think the majority of muslims are terrorists? lmao

[Anonymous No.13148094]

>>13148084
How many of those are there really in a year? Less than a hundred?

[Anonymous No.13148099]

>>13147306
Nobody ever said that atheists were coherent.
>>13148089
We KNOW it.

[Anonymous No.13148102]

>>13148089
I cross the street every time I see a Muslim. I don't trust them.

[Anonymous No.13148106]

>>13147777
God is the highest value in a moral hierarchy. Morality being the hierarchy of being; the correct order of things.
Without it, you cannot place you (now) in relation to you (future) or even you (past). God is absolutely required for any self-aware being.

[Anonymous No.13148120]

>>13148094
>t. doesn't watch the news

[Anonymous No.13148123]

>>13148012
Suicide is for cowards. You'll never see the damage you leave behind and the trauma you inflict on your loved ones. You deserve to burn in hell for all eternity if you commit such an act. Especially if you have kids or a wife

[Anonymous No.13148139]

>>13148120

[Anonymous No.13148144]

>>13148106
No u

[Anonymous No.13148147]

>>13148139
Wtf. Are there 500 a year?

[Anonymous No.13148150]

>>13148106
Wrong. Take a hike, faggot.
>>13148123
>Suicide is for cowards
it depends on the context

[Anonymous No.13148170]

>>13148147
yeah, out of 2 billion muslims. to think that this would have a large effect on islamic suicide rate is hilarious

[Anonymous No.13148192]

>>13148144
What remains, then? How should one organize their world view, even? What are your preferences (now) to your preferences (future)? Does the difference matter, and to what?

>>13148150
>Wrong. Take a hike, faggot.
You say that, but once it's socially conventional (aka. aligns with your baseline being without effort), you promote faggotry. Why should someone be or not be a faggot (a wannabe value judgment)?

Socially acceptable, socially unacceptable - they are amoral at best, but usually completely immoral. Their effect relies on fear and violence, and the desired outcome is mostly immoral as well - relying on synthetic media generated values.

[Anonymous No.13148202]

Friendly reminder that religion is for weak willed people who can't deal with the fact that life has no inherent meaning.

[Anonymous No.13148217]

>>13148202
then why don't you kill yourself?

[Anonymous No.13148231]

>>13148150
In what context is it noble thing to kill your self? Perhaps to save a life, but life is rarely so cinematic

[Anonymous No.13148241]

>>13148202
>I apply positive connotations on [my perceived group] to appear as such.
What's the difference between weak-willed and strong-willed? Imagine if I was not religious, but came to the conclusion that God is dead, therefore life is meaningless?

Broader perspective; Pan is dead, God is dead. Civilizations live according to their value hierarchies, what remains is death and decay - for us.

>>13148231
Pic related.

[Anonymous No.13148243]

>>13148217
I don't see how the two correlate. Please explain.

[Anonymous No.13148251]

>>13148243
Not him, but...
If life has no meaning, it remains the most efficient way to rid the world of meaningless junk. You applied meaninglessness on life alone - this works with theism as well. Life doesn't have to mean much to the important aspects of being.

[Anonymous No.13148252]

>>13148243
if life is meaningless, then why live?

[Anonymous No.13148261]

>>13148251
>>13148252
why not live?
the point is that life has no O B J E C T I V E meaning, but subjective meaning is still there.
In fact, it is more than enough

[Anonymous No.13148268]

>>13148241
So suicide is noble when escaping war crimes? I disagree

[Anonymous No.13148271]

>>13148192
>What remains, then? How should one organize their world view, even? What are your preferences (now) to your preferences (future)? Does the difference matter, and to what?
Kant said men know right from wrong naturally.
There is no need for the divine to be moral.
There is no need for escatological answers to find meaning in life.

[Anonymous No.13148280]

>>13148261
so you're saying it's not meaningless

[Anonymous No.13148281]

>>13147802
>cope
cringe.

[Anonymous No.13148298]

>>13148261
If objective meaning does not exist, then subjective meaning is simply a coping mechanism to prevent one from looking at the maddening absurdity of it all. You're saying it's all meaningless, but it's okay if someone has a coping mechanism to pretend it's not meaningless. How then are some coping mechanisms better or worse than others? If it doesn't mean anything, objectively, how can it matter?

[Anonymous No.13148317]

>>13148261
>why not live?
To not be a waste of time (or any other potentially meaningful aspect of being).
>the point is that life has no O B J E C T I V E meaning, but subjective meaning is still there.
That contradicts your earlier post, where you state
>the fact that life has no inherent meaning.
>the fact
That's relying on objectivity. Of course, the meaninglessness of life is not an objective fact, it's a subjective value judgment and a state of moral confusion.

If life is to be meaningful, it can be so in many different ways.
1) Life is meaningful to 'non-living' entities, such as an outside perspective, the creation of history, languages, memes, gods, Mammon etc. Life doesn't have to have access to meaning itself.
2) Life is meaningful to life itself, promoting self-propagation, access relies on competition of experiences, forming fragile value hierarchies which compete with one another in an evolutionary struggle.
3) Life has transcendential value, may or may not have access to meaning of things in life itself, but life goes in absolute moral directions, which may or may not validate the subjective experience.
All of them are objective, some have a subjective element to them.

[Anonymous No.13148362]

>>13148202
“If the whole universe has no meaning , we should never have found out that it has no meaning : just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark.

[Anonymous No.13148384]

>>13148271
>Kant said men know right from wrong naturally.
Yes, but this knowledge can be ignored quite freely, and nature itself offers no reasons to be a certain way, aside from experiences such as fear - meaning that morality itself is 'for the weak'. Though that doesn't need to mean much unless power itself is a good thing. Even then, most people do not naturally align with moral choices, and this causes a highly immoral world. However, I believe evil can have existential value as well. Which side should a human choose in a naturally moral paradigm with no meaningful consequences?

>There is no need for the divine to be moral.
Depends on the divine. I know that many gods exist, some prefer not being seen too much - such as Mammon. You can put all the critique of religion and God on money and it actually fits better. However, these points are ignored because people believe they more to gain more from their belief in money.
I think that at this point, atheism discredits humanity's value, greatly.
>There is no need for escatological answers to find meaning in life.
It's only necessary to get rid of death and the great futility it puts on life.

[Anonymous No.13148389]

>>13148384
>However, these points are ignored because people believe they have more to gain from their belief in money.
Fixed.

[Anonymous No.13148396]

If life had a meaning, no one would search for it, scince there's no need for it

[Anonymous No.13148398]

>>13148362
That's a good one. Who said that?

[Anonymous No.13148402]

>>13148398
Sounds like C.S Lewis.

[Anonymous No.13148409]

>>13148362
It's not something to found out. It's pretty obvious

[Anonymous No.13148417]

>>13148362
What stops the opposite from being true as well?

[Anonymous No.13148423]

>>13147910
Based and greenpilled

[Anonymous No.13148452]

>>13148012
Fun fact; I've attempted a vindictive suicide.
It shouldn't have failed, I believe your consciousness just jumps to a parallel reality with slight differences.

[Anonymous No.13148673]

>>13147910
Buddhists just choose to end their lives by pure willpower, that’s not too bad

[Anonymous No.13149233]

>>13148280
>>13148298
>>13148317
RETARD ALERT
go read a book

[Anonymous No.13149282]

>>13148317
>That's relying on objectivity
yes, so? you are conflating two different terms. objectivity and objective meaning are not the same things.
>That contradicts your earlier post, where you state
no it really doesn't life doesn't have i n h e r e n t meaning, i.e. life doesn't begin with meaning or the essence of life doesn't proceed its own existence. meaning isn't a priori,, it's derived from humans, making it subjective to those humans.
>(1 (2 (3
it may be an objective fact meaning exists, but that meaning you refer to is NOT objective. Again, you are conflating the terminology.

[Anonymous No.13149292]

So there is no potential truth behind meaning?

[Anonymous No.13149309]

>>13149292
>truth
it isn't epistemologically accessible to us.

[Anonymous No.13149352]

>>13148202
>no inherent meaning.
>weak willed
pick one

[Anonymous No.13149357]

>>13148261
>the point is that life has no O B J E C T I V E meaning, but subjective meaning is still there. In fact, it is more than enough
why are you posting in /lit/ if you've never read a book

[Anonymous No.13149369]

>>13147168
Posting scripture as evidence in discussions about hate and violence coming from Christianity as a whole is like posting excerpts from the communist manifesto as evidence in discussions about the historical viability of communism

[Anonymous No.13149430]

>>13148281
yikes

[Anonymous No.13149522]

>>13149352
no.
>>13149357
fuck off nigger.

[Anonymous No.13149544]

Meaning is the endgoal towards a system works towards. Subject systems has subject specific goals, but they take part of an universal metasystem that is the manifestation of the inherent ontology of the universe, which is the objective meaning of the universe.

[Anonymous No.13149592]

What confuses me is that people say Nietzsche is a nihilistic atheist. He clearly believes in God. He just simply believes God is dead, in other words that the age of God is gone and can't be regained in current society. The entire thing of Thus Spoke Zarathustra explains this so well but it seems to be missed by so many. The overman are those that free both body and spirit. Society currently forbids us from being in contact with our spirit and endorses the destruction of the Body. The Spirit requires a strong Body which Nietzsche states right at the start, his philosophy isn't life sucks and God isn't real. It is that the modern world has put a straight jacket on our Will, which is first and foremost above all. The overman is that which destroys the straight jacket, empowers the body and grows the spirit after. He is so strongly against the idea of hedonism I can't fathom anyone who reads him and says "Yeah Nietzsche is all about live and let live and enjoy yourself man, life doesn't matter dude." The struggle is what gives us meaning, the climb up, and he describes this climb as lonely because of the current world view. The view that struggling is for losers, chads just chill and have fun. Do not be the camel or the lion. Be the child and carve out your own world. Be the change you want to see, for even if you fail at it and die trying you may say "I did not perish like a dog, being fed his daily food from his masters. No. Instead I rose up and took control and mastered my own will."

[Anonymous No.13149599]

>>13149544
What goal is the universe working towards?

[Anonymous No.13149671]

>>13149592
Not a bad take, but you have more to read. 'God is dead, isn't an atheistic position, you are right. But Nietzsche himself was an atheist, and that factors into his philosophy.
Nietzsche wasn't a hedonist, but he certainly disdained asceticism. Zarathustra regularly enjoys delicious food, and even gets drunk with the higher men in part 4. He regards himself as a disciple of Dionysus, who was after all the God of wine.
A note on the will, specifically the will to power: it is closely associated with his other ideas of amor fati and the eternal recurrence. The will to power is a will to life, a life that embraces itself in totality.

[Anonymous No.13149678]

what about the crusades?

[Anonymous No.13149681]

>>13147910
>muslims

[Anonymous No.13149699]

>>13149671
Maybe you are correct and I should study him more. Thank you for your input!

[Anonymous No.13149815]

>>13149699
No problem, anon. Nietzsche is one of the more difficult philosophers to understand, but also the most rewarding.

[Anonymous No.13149832]

>>13147910

[Anonymous No.13150271]

>>13149233
But how could I read a book if there is no meaning? Won't it simply be my own thoughts projected on to the page? I would get the same thing out of staring at a wall.

[Anonymous No.13150326]

>>13147910
>christian women the happiest
But not for lack of trying not to be

[Anonymous No.13150457]

>>13147757
>Implying morality being relative means being a loser is ok
I know morality is subjective and that doesnt mean i dont have high standarts for myself, actually i have them too high probably. Actually, most religions help losers cope instead of saying them to improve. "you will have a better life next time, goy, now work for me"
>>13147777
based. although the image never said that
>>13147910
You know, religion helps losers cope, they are not really usefull if you are a chad, so that explains the suicide rates lower when believing in fairy tales. Even I looked for god when i were sad. But not religion, not following some jews scripture, thanks.

[Anonymous No.13150500]

Religion is mental illness.

[Anonymous No.13150511]

>>13148102
Yikes

[Anonymous No.13150528]

>>13148170
Only 1 billion but the point stands.

[Anonymous No.13150589]

>>13148123
I'm interested in the moral justification for eternal damnation.
Could you be more specific as to why a criminal requires infinite retribution for a finite transgression?

[Anonymous No.13150623]

>>13149599
Unity my man. One love.

[Anonymous No.13150673]

>>13146841
Real nihilism has never been tried.

[Anonymous No.13150728]

>>13150589
it's not finite, you've had your whole life

[Anonymous No.13150910]

>>13150728
that's a complete non-sequitur
your "whole life" is a limited amount of time.

[Anonymous No.13151075]

>>13147757
Can you prove an objective morality?
.. oh what am I saying, thats an analytic sentence à Kant, so you cant.

[Anonymous No.13152015]

>>13148089
How well read are you on Muslim theocracy?

[Anonymous No.13152045]

>>13147151
I don't think the cleverness of this comment is appreciated by anyone here.

[Anonymous No.13153079]

>>13152045
Fuck you.

[Anonymous No.13153266]

>>13150910
Don't argue with him; he's only capable of speaking in platitudes.

[Anonymous No.13153362]

>>13146841
How many existentialist high school students who think they’re nihilists has this thread attracted?

[Anonymous No.13153379]

>>13149369
The objective of Christianity is to be Christlike, not to be Christian.

[Anonymous No.13154212]

>>13153362
Existentialism is phil 101, not high school

[Anonymous No.13154588]

>>13153362
That's this entire board dude.

[Anonymous No.13154609]

>>13146841

Aren't nowadays all the incels into Peterson and Christianity?

[Anonymous No.13154683]

>And what about the crusades?

[Anonymous No.13154733]

>>13148384
>Hasn't read Kant

[Anonymous No.13154773]

>>13154609
yep.
all the fedoras went hardcore traditionalist because of 2016

[Anonymous No.13154842]

>>13148243
bahahahahahaha you silly man! you aren't really living, seeing life for what it truly is. if u did you wouldnt be saying this

[Anonymous No.13154856]

>>13154609
>Peterson
>Christianity
lol no
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3OxVX37Zbts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWuYSo-nL08

[Anonymous No.13155642]

>>13151075
Actually it's synthetic a priori.

[Anonymous No.13155748]

>>13148261
You totally misunderstand the distinction between subject and object.

[Anonymous No.13155752]

>>13149233
No. You are the one who needs to read.

[Anonymous No.13155760]

>>13149309
>>truth
>it isn't epistemologically accessible to us.
Are you sure this is true?

[Anonymous No.13155786]

>>13151075
You've never read Kant

[Anonymous No.13157575]

>>13146841
Me on the left.

[Anonymous No.13159062]

>>13150271
lmao is english your second language? meaning exist objectively, but objective meaning doesn't exist. is that concept above you?

[Anonymous No.13159207]

>>13146841
Atheism and nihilism aren’t synonymous, dingleshit.

[Anonymous No.13159223]

>>13150589
Hell isn't retribution, it's a continuation of the state that the sinner lived their life on Earth

[Anonymous No.13159889]

>>13155760
no. but it is highly probable, which is reason enough to be endorsed.

[Anonymous No.13159899]

>>13159207
Nihilism is inherently atheistic, with the broadest definition of God known. Atheism is without cause, driving motivations, goals, value hierarchies - in fact, atheism only has one set rule; God = nul.
Atheism has nothing separating it from nihilism, within itself. All non-nihilistic aspects of an atheist can survive without the atheism.

[Anonymous No.13159905]

>>13159223
nice headcannon faggot. go shove your cattle ethics on others.
>[T]hat last day of judgment, with its everlasting issues; that day unlooked for by the nations, the theme of their derision, when the world hoary with age, and all its many products, shall be consumed in one great flame! How vast a spectacle then bursts upon the eye! What there excites my admiration? what my derision? Which sight gives me joy? which rouses me to exultation?--as I see so many illustrious monarchs, whose reception into the heavens was publicly announced, groaning now in the lowest darkness with great Jove himself, and those, too, who bore witness of their exultation; governors of provinces, too, who persecuted the Christian name, in fires more fierce than those with which in the days of their pride they raged against the followers of Christ. What world's wise men besides, the very philosophers, in fact, who taught their followers that God had no concern in ought that is sublunary, and were wont to assure them that either they had no souls, or that they would never return to the bodies which at death they had left, now covered with shame before the poor deluded ones, as one fire consumes them! Poets also, trembling not before the judgment-seat of Rhadamanthus or Minos, but of the unexpected Christ! I shall have a better opportunity then of hearing the tragedians, louder-voiced in their own calamity; of viewing the play-actors, much more "dissolute" in the dissolving flame; of looking upon the charioteer, all glowing in his chariot of fire; of beholding the wrestlers, not in their gymnasia, but tossing in the fiery billows … What quaestor or priest in his munificence will bestow on you the favour of seeing and exulting in such things as these? And yet even now we in a measure have them by faith in the picturings of imagination

[Anonymous No.13159915]

>>13159905
Hell is a self-made tragedy, God doesn't want us there, going so far as to sacrifice Himself to save humans. Or so the Christian mythos goes.
The desire to see others burn in hell is one example of the sin of wrath and vengeance. Its source is humanity interacting with humanity.

[Anonymous No.13159947]

>>13147974
Believers would be better off killing themselves as soon as possible to be honest.

[Anonymous No.13159968]

>>13148094
Loads of shit like that happens in syria/iraq/afghanistan so you don't really hear or care about it.

[Anonymous No.13159981]

>>13148268
He escaped Injustice, at least I think that was his own perception.
I'd say suicide as self sacrifice, like volunteering to clean up a nuclear disaster somewhere, is a noble way to commit sudoku.

[Anonymous No.13159994]

>>13150457
religious guy on my college project team, didn't do a tap of work towards the project, study, claimed the project supervisor hated him from the day they met when he wasn't able to produce evidence of contribution when asked and has mild depression, said when I confronted him about it that "he will help me"

[Anonymous No.13160099]

>>13148202
nihilism is the ultimate cope for weak willed people it's the whole point of philosophy