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/lit/ - Literature


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12998812 No.12998812 [Reply] [Original]

I'm trying to gather arguments in opposition of music, which I regard to be the lowliest of arts, purely sensual and lacking in any intellectual and lasting value. Any books/thinkers to read in support of this?

>> No.12998821

>>12998812
what do you think about poetry or visual art

>> No.12998828

incel

>> No.12998848

>>12998821
Irrelevant to the topic at hand, although I obviously consider poetry much more valuable.

>> No.12998858

>>12998812
Everyone I've ever heard about has pretty much the opposite opinion

>> No.12998861

>>12998812
Pretty sure there are Islamic thinkers for this subject, they like banning music

>> No.12998862

The Iliad is a music
take that

>> No.12998865

>>12998812
You don't have any arguments of your own?

>> No.12998868

Nabokov disliked music but I don't think he was proud of it

>> No.12998875

>>12998848
Music has the same enjoyable properties as poetry. They are both the love of rhythm or lack of

>> No.12998876

all art is sensual/emotional, even the highly structural or philosophical stuff. quit taking yourself so seriously it's embarrassing.

>> No.12998879

>>12998876
fucking this lmao, of all the hot takes to have, this is the one OP has chosen?

>> No.12998881

>>12998812
autism

>> No.12998886

>>12998881
this isn't autism, it's lack of autism. the guy isn't rigorous enough to take his premises to their logical conclusions. what a mess

>> No.12998887

>>12998865
Obviously I do, and I voiced them many times (unsurprisingly without much success, since the charm of music pervaded most minds on Earth), however, the subject doesn't stir me enough to acquire expertise in it and speak from the authority, so I'm looking for familiar souls who did.

>> No.12998914

"i want to be different from all these normies that like music, can you help me come up with good arguments so i can be special?"

utterly retarded

>> No.12998923

>>12998812
OP while I don't hate art, I sort of understand where you're coming from. I think for the most part, all art is essentially pointless and purely sensual/playing to the passions.

>> No.12998934

https://youtu.be/8O6fFb0yJAY

>> No.12998937

>>12998887
Schopenhauer

>> No.12998939

I liked you, OP.
Stand in your ground and fuck the others who makes personal attacks.

Good luck on your quest
i like music and dont know what to recommend
sorry

>> No.12998973

Music is the food of love

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXFBrbZK3j4

>> No.12999027

>However, by the end of the century, people began to distinguish the topic of music and its own beauty from music as part of a mixed media, as in opera and dance. Immanuel Kant, whose Critique of Judgment is generally considered the most important and influential work on aesthetics in the 18th century, argued that instrumental music is beautiful but ultimately trivial. Compared to the other fine arts, it does not engage the understanding sufficiently, and it lacks moral purpose. To display the combination of genius and taste that combines ideas and beauty, Kant thought that music must be combined with words, as in song and opera.

>> No.12999051

Just listen to vaporwave and jungle.

>> No.12999057

>>12999027
Was it autism?

>> No.12999071

>>12999057
germanity and autism are very similar but ultimately different
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ztOV2wrrkY

>> No.12999090

>>12998886
I'm not joking hatred of music is a trait that can be found in some autists due to sensory overload

>> No.12999108

>>12998812
But most literature is fabricated stories, and its "intellectual value" is a fraction of that found in a proper philosophical text

>> No.12999191

>>12998812
>not able to appreciate the beauty of music
>lacking in any intellectual value
You should recline in a warm tub and slice your forearms lengthwise

>> No.12999211

OP I'm sorry but theres no hope for your autistic self

>> No.12999215

>>12998812
>please give me books that will support the position i've already decided is correct.

>> No.12999239

https://youtu.be/tNQSOr4Jgis

>> No.12999244
File: 118 KB, 640x788, adorno jazz.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12999244

Just listen to jazz. There's nothing more anti-music than jazz.

>> No.12999249

>>12998812
You could make a case for the degeneration of Western music since around 1900, with music becoming a craft art of the individual instead of a philosophical epochal movement as it had been before, and the huge influence of the repetitive beats of native African music which Western music had not yet known, what Karlheinz Stockhausen referred to as "post-African repetitions". But as for thinking music itself is the lowliest of arts, I'm afraid you have the 'tism.

>> No.12999253

https://youtu.be/r-kAnNgqN9o

>> No.12999264

>>12999253
Based video.

>> No.12999306

https://youtu.be/-njxKF8CkoU

>> No.12999316

>>12999306
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5JbLPTVvryg

>> No.12999389
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12999389

>>12998812

>> No.12999476

>>12998812
Plato.

>> No.12999570

>>12999476
But Plato's position is essentially the opposite of OP and >>12999249

>> No.12999580
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12999580

>>12998812

Don't waste your time with music if it's dumb, then.

But nonetheless, the classics (as in symphony) can't be beat.

>> No.12999583
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12999583

>>12999580
>the classics (as in symphony)

>> No.12999602
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12999602

Music, like anything "good" or "pleasant," can be over used and abused to the point of self harm. Abuse of music can lead to escapism from your duties and the content of music can negatively alter your perception (for example if the content of the music is derogatory/vulgar/evil.)

However, to say all music is bad, is pretty gay.

>> No.12999609
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12999609

>>12999583

What Zit Tooya?

>> No.12999630

>>12999071
Germans, like Japanese, are ruled by what I've termed cultural autism.

>> No.12999631

>>12999580
>the classics (as in symphony) can't be beat.
Wrong again.
https://youtu.be/w59e20ijOpE

>> No.12999668
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12999668

>>12999631

You basically just posted a video of a song that Wine Moms dance to.

Why do you even live?

>> No.12999678

>>12998812
>purely sensual and lacking in any intellectual and lasting value
have sex

>> No.12999687

I kind of feel the same way but I just don't know enough about music to critique it. I've forced to listen to hundreds of hours of various classical music and I just don't experience what other people do. I don't understand where a lot of elaborate stories and interpretations of pieces come from. It's noise, it can be pleasing noise but that's all it is.

>> No.12999689

>>12999668
>memes imply agreement

>> No.12999754

Music is the only thing keeping us from going full left hemisphere, you never go full left hemisphere

>> No.12999759

>>12999754
cringe

>> No.12999785

>>12998812
Music is a visceral art. Humans are programmed to enjoy music. Tribal Africans play the bongos and slap rocks for recreation. Play a song to a child and they will dance and clap to it...
This thread is full of robo-manchildren and trolls.

Glorious Things In Thee Are Spoken/Gott Erhalte Franz den Kaiser

>> No.12999787

>>12999785
>Tribal Africans
>a child
sounds like the kind of people one should strive to emulate

>> No.12999792

>im a brainlet pls help me think im not a brainlet
uhh no kthnx

>> No.12999840

>>12998812
I agree with you, OP. This is an opinion I came to myself after having listened to rap, metal, classical music, traditional tribal music and everything in between. It's a drug in the most literal sense, purely sedative in nature and designed to keep humanity in a perpetual state of stupor. I've expressed this to my friends a few times, but obviously they do not take kindly to this exposure of their addiction to sensuality. I would say that all forms of entertainment are like this, but music is most easily abused due to its power on the senses and emotions that literature cannot match. Literature of course has its own potential to be a vice. Not all music is bad, and I think classical and traditional music from around the world is best to avoid the negative effects, but I certainly agree that it cannot be 100% avoided, and indeed most music is steaming garbage, even that which is considered good by respected people nowadays.

>> No.12999868

>>12999787
Only on /lit/ you will find pseuds stuck so far up their pseud ass that they don't understand simple arguments.
I'm saying it's visceral and enjoyment of music is in our genes.
You could have argued that we should fight this urge and live like the god damn hardcore muslims, but even they have their religious chants and hymns which accomplish the same thing (satisfy the musical sense).
But you decide to go with,
>sounds like the kind of people one should strive to emulate
Like a true shit-for-brains

>> No.12999875

>>12999868
>I'm saying it's visceral and enjoyment of music is in our genes.
wtf I love eating an unhealthy amount of salt because my genes think that salt is hard to come across and isn't produced industrially now

>> No.12999887
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12999887

>>12999875
You are truly one of a kind. You have to eat your daily quota of salt you fucking imbecile, that's why it's in your genes.
Try NOT eating salt and see what happens. High grade fucking moron.

>> No.12999896

>>12999887
>You have to eat your daily quota of salt you fucking imbecile, that's why it's in your genes.
mmhm and I need to eat whatever precious salt I come across because it's non-abundant

>> No.12999929

>>12998812
if you want a name to throw around, aristotle attacked most music as idle degeneracy at the end of his politics iirc. he only endorsed some music because of its educational value, which is basically nonexistent today

>> No.12999930

>>12998812
https://meltingasphalt.com/music-in-human-evolution/

Here you go anon.

>> No.12999962

Figure out your own arguments you fucking muppet

>> No.12999978

>>12999896
Salt is essential for your survival and if you don't eat salt you will die. Wait a minute... why are you making this about salt? The topic is music, which I'm arguing is essential for your well being, as it is a natural creative expression. I'm not saying you have to listen to all the crap out there. But to argue there is no value in music is to expose yourself as a genetic anomaly and a robo-retard.

>> No.12999987

>>12999978
>Salt is essential for your survival and if you don't eat salt you will die.
mmhm and I need to eat whatever precious salt I come across because it's non-abundant

>> No.12999999
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12999999

>>12999987
By all means do, and proceed to wash it down with cyanide.

>> No.13000001

plato has a thing or two to say about music

>> No.13000020

Only the dumbest of faggots couldn't figure this one out.
Music is the most powerful and plebian of all artforms. Babies love it instinctively. Most musical tastes are acquired, require very little of you, and somehow still manage to subsume your identity with what ultimately amounts to a sort of vanity and groupthink that really has very little to do with the actual art itself.

>> No.13000034

>>12999999
Holy shit

>> No.13000040

>>12998812
t. can't play an instrument and thinks music == songs

>> No.13000055

>>12998812
AC/DC lyrics are all the proof you need.

>> No.13000067

>>12998861
Nope. All countries like music. Op is more of a dumbass. Schopenhauer is the answer, like has already been said. Music is the highest of the arts.

>> No.13000123

>>13000067
wrong. music is the most powerful, nothing revelatory about it other than that you are a dumb monkey-brain.
Anyone who blindly attacks OP and cannot come up with one argument in his favor is someone I would never take an opinion from.

>> No.13000146

>>12998812
I knew a guy who thought this about music. He was quite honestly the worlds biggest pseud - always thought he was the smartest person in the room and believed he was ready to teach people at the age of 22. I found out years later he never even finished high school

>> No.13000158

>>13000146
the fact of him not graduating high school really says more about his disengagement from traditional power structures than anything else.
If anything, you are the pseud for taking that sort of shot at him as if it meant anything.

>> No.13000184

>>12999754
What do you mean? Genuinely curious.

>> No.13000234

>>13000158
That’s the exact kind of thing he would have said. Some bullshit pseudery about power structures but in reality got high every day instead of studying

>> No.13000283

You'll never find anything to that effect because it's the supreme pleb opinion.

>> No.13000307

>>13000234
I almost failed high school simply because I skipped physical ed. It is a cheap shot, especially considering that in america anyone with a 6th grade reading level can graduate.
He was most likely learning from actual life experiences during important part of life. While everyone else is doing the exactly same thing at school.

>> No.13000336

>>13000307
Seems like I hit a nerve because you are making a lot of assumptions. The only experiences he was having were of smoking weed and playing video games instead of studying.

>> No.13000362

>>13000020
https://youtu.be/TtqPlB-oC4w

>> No.13000376

>>13000336
>The only experiences he was having were of smoking weed and playing video games instead of studying
Still better than trapped in prison.

>> No.13000385

>>12998886
savy

>>12998887
sure, obviously

>> No.13000393

>>12998812
music is the most sexual artform, which is precisely why it's so alien to you. sorry OP

>> No.13000409

>>12999306
lil bitch get dialectical with it
NA NA NA NA NA NANA
NA NA NA NA NA NA

>> No.13000415

>>13000362
https://youtu.be/z8ZqFlw6hYg
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elyse_Pahler

>> No.13000422

>>12998812
lol faggot

>> No.13000423

>>12999090
Wouldn't this be the lack of emotions and over-rational communication common in autism?

>> No.13000449

>>13000393
https://youtu.be/l4nOHdUntyM

>> No.13000468

there are several quotes from the greatest figures in centuries of life, what is the point of life without music figuratively

>> No.13000506

this thread proves that /mu/-fags are overly prideful narcissists and incapable of holding two opposing ideas in their head at once.
Music is fine, but it has flaws. It is one of the more superficial and "cheap" artforms.

>> No.13000547

>>12999999
what a waste

>> No.13000557

retard OP

>> No.13000579

>>12998812
high music exists too anon
not all music is stupid
seems like thinkers throughout history have either considered music the "lowest" or the "highest"
try listening to some classical - especially Bach -and maybe it'll change your opinion

>> No.13000650

>>12999244
Redpill me on Adorno
Is he a subversive marxist some people claim he is, or based?

>> No.13000657

https://youtu.be/JTEFKFiXSx4

>> No.13000672

Ask this dude
https://youtu.be/9E62iA6KCIQ

>> No.13000878

>>13000650
He's an unusual combination of both.

>> No.13000898

>>12998812
t. Nabokov

>> No.13000900

>>13000898
Nabo was based AND redpilled.

>> No.13000915

>>13000158
>he was the smartest person in the room and believed he was ready to teach people at the age of 22.
But what if he was?
It's possible if he hated music. That's actually really fucking based and the plebs are mad about it.

>> No.13000997

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusia

Have you considered that you have amusia?
It is actually not that uncommon. Some just don't realize it.
Also what does "opposing music" even mean? You want arguments as to why you consider it shit? Shouldn't you be able to formulate those thoughts yourself?

>> No.13001006

>>13000997
>you must like a thing I like or you have mental issues
Hurrr

>> No.13001024

>>12998812
What's wrong with sensuality? Give a valid reason to dismiss it without relying on the lack of intelectuality meme. Do you also view emotionality as a low characterist of the human?

>> No.13001031

>>12998812
>Any books/thinkers to read in support of this?
Unironically Socrates.

>> No.13001038

>>13001024
>Do you also view emotionality as a low characterist of the human?
why dont u just ask if I'm a fag or not.

>> No.13001043

>>13001038
Why to bother with the arts then?

>> No.13001049

>>13001043
there's a difference between pandering and regular conversation.

>> No.13001051

>>12999787
Correct.These people fail to understand that music isnt something intellectual at all ,its completely intuitive and emotional

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iWQMZbnn5R4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LON8ockQkn8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pivscwcduhY

>> No.13001061

>>13001006
In this case yes.
I was giving you the benefit of doubt.
I haven't heard any proper argument in this thread as to why music is "to be opposed"
It's an art form that operates on strict rules and with formed out theory. I don't see what is not intellectual about it.

>> No.13001064

>>13000376
You form the prision when you close yourself from the enviroment where you actually exist. Same problem you suffer with sensorial experience.

>> No.13001076

>>13001051
This is the equivalent of posting an mspaint picture and pretending the Venus by Botticelli doesn't exist or is on the same level.
Look at Bachs Fugen and tell me it's the same as garage trash metal.
https://youtu.be/6o5r5G1ScEc

>> No.13001085
File: 266 KB, 893x782, 83ced656c30f1eb71c921a5ae9e8c843c15d95e6.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13001085

>>12998812
1st of all, music is incredibly complex and is in many cases *far* more intellectual than some stupid hemingway short story, about lovers fighting by a lake, just as an example. Even the music theory, sound-engineering principles, and psychology involved in pop music is well above what's required to write a short story; that's why 1 song takes a score of people to make sometimes. And that's just modern pop music. Look into jazz, or into all the intonational and melodic concerns of arabian maqamat or indian raga and you'll understand that the art of music has been refined over thousands and thousands of years. It's just a very different art form from literature with wholy different concerns. It can elevate the soul just like literature can.

>> No.13001117

>>13001076
I dont know,I´ve never listened to garage trash metal,but the music I posted is actually better,and im completely okay with being called an absolute retard over that

>> No.13001138

Music has easily the most developed and accurate theory of all art forms and provides the best framework for intellectual wankery if that's what you're looking for in art. It's the reason why every autistic stemfag can find enjoyment in it even if all other art flies past their heads.

>> No.13001141

>>13001085
This. Also playing an instrument is an experience bordering on transcendental

>> No.13001149

>>13001085
Complexities of music are generally reserved for the eccentricities added to a very simple structure. Complicating the foundations of a piece can and often do bring undesirable results. This is consistent through every genre and can begin to explain why pop-music is so simple, despite what you say. The specific artistry of some can be hard to define but the basics rarely change.
There's an objective beauty to music that can be understood with minimal knowledge of it.

>> No.13001153

>>13001117
> the music I posted is actually better,and im completely okay with being called an absolute retard over that
Fucking kill yourself my dude. You actually are mentally impaired as it seems.

>> No.13001167
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13001167

>>13001153
Im satisfied

>> No.13001181

>>12998812
Sperg-tastic post.

>> No.13001204

Music is a satanic dopamine bomb just like porn or some other frivolous distraction that's designed to pacify you. Listening to a Beethoven symphony is scrolling through Instagram. Putting on The Rite of Spring is identical to going on pornhub.com, typing in 'sporty buttplugged girl gets horny during workout' and going to town on your wiener. It's trash, it's filth, and you shouldn't do it.

>> No.13001218

>>13001204
kill yourself

>> No.13001219

>>12998887
>since the charm of music pervaded most minds on Earth

I fucking new it.

Alien.

>> No.13001230

>>13001204
This but unironically.

>> No.13001241
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13001241

>>13001085
>Look into jazz
YIKES

>> No.13001242

>>13001204
What are some acceptable vices?

>> No.13001258

Nabokov hated music, so try reading his letters, I suppose.

I'm not wading through the rest of this thread to see if anyone's said that yet because most of the posters are borderline retarded. Cheers OP

>> No.13001304

>>12998812
writing is just a cope for people with no musical talent.

>> No.13001347

>>12998812
Have you ever listened to music?

>> No.13001374

>>12998812
>I don't like a thing therefore it is for stupid people
neck yourself at your earliest convenience

>> No.13001415

>>12999215
Yes, well, to be fair that's one way to get to the truth. If you cannot find a coherent argument for, you can be pretty sure your position is wrong and move on. This assumes you're fairly objective about yourself, but it can work regardless.

>> No.13001418

>>13000650
He's a marxist who thought that capitalism and commodity fetishism were destroying western art and culture and that this was most personified in Jazz. He also hated feminism and hippies.

>> No.13001749

i remember nick mullen mentioning in his blog that he was indifferent to music. i wonder if it's an anhedonia thing.

>> No.13001782
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13001782

>>13001141
Playing instruments and learning music etc. is based as fuck. Being content with just listening to mindless pop and commercial bullshit is cringe.

>> No.13001821

>>12998812
Music was never meant to carry intellectual value, it is emotion, it has the potential to affect the listener emotionally or bring about certain "moods." Your entire premise is pointless in the sense that music never claimed to do what you claim it fails to do.

>> No.13001835

>>12999090
My cousin has asbergers and although he has very surface level taste in music he does not hate music, though it seems to be lost on him as he mostly listens to nu-metal exclusively.

>> No.13001849

>I don't like paintings
>okay dude
>I don't like dancing
>okay dude
>I don't like music
>WHAT THE FUCK HOW CAN YOU NOT LikE MOOSIC JESUS IS THIS AUTISM ARE YOU A PSYCHOPATH HOW IS THIS EVEN LEGAL I DONT EVEN UGH IM GETTING TRIGGERED ARRRRGGGGHHH
Why are /mu/tards so insecure?

>> No.13001871

>>13000307
Not him but you are making this personal, I hope you see this, you are defending yourself and projecting yourself onto the other guy's example solely because both the example and yourself didn't finish high school, you are not him and vice versa, considering that you don't know him and the other guy does what do you hope to achieve here? He has all the information, you are relying on whatever breadcrumbs are dropped by him, if you don't fix this problem it will lead to many more pointless discussions at best and possibly social issues at worst. Keep your ego in check or else it will rule you.

>> No.13001891
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13001891

I see we are reaching new heights in bleakness. Sasuga proletariat.

>> No.13001893

>>13001418
I enjoyed The Culture Industry but for one man to get jazz so wrong is astounding

>> No.13001910

>>13001891
>traditional family home
I don't know why the peasants complained when they had a two story house for their nuclear family.

>> No.13001921

>>12998812
I DON'T LIKE MUSIC, CREATE MY OPINION FOR MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>> No.13001924

>>13001891
>implying art that is made for and traded by the ownership class has anything to do with the proletariat

>> No.13001928
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13001928

>>12998812
music is pretty embarrassing yeah

>> No.13001929

>>13001910
>peasants
Not people, don't count.

>> No.13001932

>>13001924
Bourgeois are proletariat. The world is ruled by slaves. Killing the king by beheading him, leading to the age of 'rationalism' and 'enlightenment' - Ha!

>> No.13001940

13001929
have a wew, lad

>> No.13001947

>>13001940
They aren't, have never been, and will never be.

>> No.13001954

really going for it huh

>> No.13001982

>>13001954
Humanity is not a binary structure of 'human-not human', it's a spectrum; homosexual male apes < apes < peasants < obese apes < soldiers < jews < Bourgeois < threshold for beings that actually look human < women < threshold for beings taht act like humans < warriors < nobles < clergy < monarchs < human archetypes < natural human beauty standards < anime humans < elves < angelic figures

>> No.13001989

those sure are some characters you typed

>> No.13001997

>>13001989
Truth hurts. World would look human if there were humans left to run it.

>> No.13002001

uh-huh

>> No.13002013

>>13002001
You'll always be ugly and evil.

>> No.13002024

post face qt

>> No.13002055

>>13002024
You first. I'm pretty handsome.

>> No.13002069

all the more reason to post face

>> No.13002072

>>13002069
You first, I don't do charity.

>> No.13002076

make me
demonstrate your power

>> No.13002091

>>13002076
>your power
I never implied that power is important. Chimpanzees are more powerful than any human. Technology has given plebs the power to destroy kingdoms, and the jews the power to rule over plebs.
Unless Pewdiepie manages to crown himself, I'm not too confident in good things following good behavior until the world changes. Good things are happening, however; the clown world is reaching collective consciousness; this is a carnival time in the spiritual sphere.
End is nigh, beginning a bit further.

>> No.13002105
File: 77 KB, 640x480, 588960.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13002105

>> No.13002112

>>13002105
I don't even think in weeks.

>> No.13002115

‘wow’

>> No.13002117

>>13002115
Now imagine what I'll be when I surpass women on the spectrum!

>> No.13002123

make me, poshboi

>> No.13002142

>>12998812
I can't think of a general anti-music books or thinkers. The closest I can think of is Adorno's critical writings on popular music.

>> No.13002197

I believe OP is just larping some sort of Letzter Mensch
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Last_man

>> No.13002668

>>12999840
Faggot.

>> No.13002683

>>12999840
>>12998812
>>12999687
>>13000020
>>13001204
you have a severe case of not having sex

>> No.13002684

>>13000506
This is why /lit/ is dead.

>> No.13002693

>>13001891
traditional family home = machine for living

>> No.13002753
File: 180 KB, 1099x1118, 06285C1B-0123-467A-BDB8-92D538EC6365.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13002753

howdy from mu :)

>> No.13002961

>>13001893
He wasn't wrong. You just have shit taste.

>> No.13002966

>>13002197
Didn't Nietzsche hate music?

>> No.13002968
File: 51 KB, 542x441, 1ad86-adorno.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13002968

>>13002961
it's not about """taste""" you muppet

>> No.13003005

>>13002968
>>13002961
jazz, from creation to presentation, is the antithesis of what adorno thought it represented

>> No.13003029

>>13002966

ohne Musik wäre das Leben ein Irrtum.

>> No.13003032
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13003032

>>12998812
Read The World as Will and Representation so you can unfuck your retarded opinions.

>> No.13003037

>>13002966
Didn't you even read The Birth of Tragedy?

>> No.13003080

>>13002968
But it is.

>> No.13003082

>>13003037
Exactly my point.

>> No.13003088

>>13003032
If i understood correctly then Schop mean that music skips unbased observation and gets right into manifestation of will?

>> No.13003098

>>13003029
?This is what happens to us in music: first one has to learn to hear a figure and melody at all, to detect and distinguish it, to isolate it and delimit it as a separate life; then it requires some exertion and good will to tolerate it in spite of its strangeness, to be patient with its appearance and expression, and kindhearted about its oddity:—finally there comes a moment when we are used to it, when we wait for it, when we sense that we should miss it if it were missing: and now it continues to compel and enchant us relentlessly until we have become its humble and enraptured lovers who desire nothing better from the world than it and only it.
Literally the MTV understanding of music. Push the garbage until the idiots can't resist humming it.

>> No.13003116

>>13003080
music is ethics not wine

>> No.13003117

>>12998812
from a more utilitarian pov, you can read Mozi (condemnation of music). He argues that music does not contribute to maximization of population, wealth or order of the state and is a waste of resources and manpower

>> No.13003122

>>13002966
He himself composed music and played the piano (IIRC)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvh6CJa6LyA

>> No.13003126

>>13003116
Post an example.

>> No.13003130

>>13003122
Thanks for proving my point.

>> No.13003136

>>13003126
Goood
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZlB2tRyvQw
Ebil
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHHfvdAqvn8

>> No.13003138

>>13003117
>bug people don't like music
SURPRISE!

>> No.13003141

>>13000900
His strong opinions about authors were anyways. I don't think the man himself was that great of a guy.

>> No.13003144

>>13003138
Thanks for proving my point.

>> No.13003147

>>13003136
Thanks for proving my point.

>> No.13003153

>>13003141
Thanks for proving my point.

>> No.13003155

>>13001928
Godly troll pic,saved

>> No.13003189

>>13003130
Which is?

>> No.13003191

>>13003155
Thanks for proving my point.

>> No.13003196
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13003196

If I'm the first one to post this then /lit/ is truly dead

>> No.13003197

Adorno - The culture indusrty
Dolar - A voice and nothing more

>> No.13003216
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13003216

>>13003117
Mein Gott, China, is this our future?

>> No.13003254

>>13003196
Thanks for proving my point.

>> No.13003322
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13003322

>>13003088
Yup

>> No.13003339
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13003339

>>12998812
false. some songs even have great poems in them.

sure. 99.9% of the music is shit, but the artform itself isn't that low.

now visual art, that's low.

>> No.13003350

I do almost nothing but listen to music, but after hearing blackstar (and realizing how much praise it's been given from shitheads) I started thinking the same as you, OP

>> No.13003359
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13003359

>>13003197
>Adorno - The culture indusrty
Just read The Origin of the Work of Art

>> No.13003365
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13003365

>>12999999
>>13000001
So close

>> No.13003536

I only listen to live classical music, you can get tickets for next to nothing. It enriches my life and ignites my soul. I can't even stand guitar music anymore. rap is garbage god. I've become such a stuck up fuck fuck

>> No.13003545

>>12998812
Have sex.

>> No.13003547

>>13001928
>Can and Lil Xan in the same pic
Saved, this will come in handy

>> No.13003565

>>13003359
The two are very different essays with very different points. Why would I 'just read' Heidegger instead?

>> No.13003583

>>12998876
Literature isn’t about art, it’s about name dropping obscure philosophers to btfo the left

>> No.13003700

>>12998923
if art is pointless then what's the point of anything?

>> No.13003781

>>13001051
if you listen to the kind of music this anon posted, and other pseud-ish garbage like nin, tool, or psychodelic stoner rock, you should unironically kill yourself

>> No.13003807
File: 111 KB, 900x900, Franz Liszt.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13003807

>>12998812
music is literally the highest form of art

>> No.13003856

>>13003700
There's no point in anything.

>> No.13003863

>>13003583
Say that to Homer again faggot.

>> No.13003868

>>12998812
Fuck you and fuck your gay mentally masturbatory self worship

>> No.13003890

>>13003856
well there we go then

>> No.13003905

>>12998887
>look at how smart i am, I'm so fucking smart, look at how i talk, I'm so intelligent.
kek this is so fucking cringe, holy fucking shit I've never laughed this hard before in my life, holy fuck dude

>> No.13003947

>>13000423
you've never met anyone with severe autism

>> No.13003967

>>12999687
>forced to listen to hundreds of hours
>how come i didn't enjoy something that i forced my self to enjoy
You know it doesn't work like that right, i think you are actually retarded. I mean seriously dude, go take a test or something.

>> No.13003971

>>12998812
Music is the most enjoyable form of art, visual art being second, and literature being dead last because it's fucking boring, get fucked faggot

>> No.13003977

>>12999787
You think you are smart but you couldn't understand a simple opinion. Absolutely pathetic.

>> No.13003988

>>13003967
You have to force yourself to try anything for the first time. I forced myself to read at one point and eventually learned to love it.

>> No.13004011

>>12999887
>You have to eat your daily quota of salt you fucking imbecile, that's why it's in your genes.
Fucking destroyed him, but obviously he's going to respond with some retarded shit anyway because his ego is enormous, and it can't accept that he made a stupid argument.

>> No.13004017

>>12999999
checked and based.

>> No.13004043

>>13000307
>I almost failed high school
oooooo la la... he hit the spot didn't he baby? The source of your depression, anxiety and low self-esteem, right? I feel bad for ya... no i don't, lmao.

>> No.13004048

a far more interesting question would be why does 99% of english- language poetry do nothing for me (multilingual), but not poetry other languages’?

>> No.13004057

>>13000506
>this thread proves that /lit/-fags are overly prideful narcissists and incapable of holding two opposing ideas in their head at once.
Literature is fine, but it has flaws. It is one of the more superficial and "cheap" artforms.

>> No.13004065

>>13000547
you are a waste, wish your father had pulled out in time.

>> No.13004073

>>13004048
maybe because your english is sorely lacking you fucking anglo

>> No.13004093

>>13001085
Extremely based, this guy knows his shit.

>> No.13004124

>>13001204
Wait whut. And how is reading a book different to any of those things? Ohh right right sorry, it's because you want it to be, right my mistake.

>> No.13004136

>>13001415
Imagine actually being this guy.

>> No.13004153

>>13001871
Wow a nice human being, haven't seen your kind a quite a while.

>> No.13004164

>>13002013
lmao, this dude is so but hurt it's hilarious

>> No.13004175
File: 124 KB, 836x569, 89a3f023e2465b5f43cabfadc3d01117c123ab4e51bbaee5532f8298d7c910cd.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13004175

>>13002693
You have the npc.

>> No.13004192

>>12999999
Pretty based

>> No.13004193
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13004193

>>13004164
Assuming I was, and you aren't just projecting, I'd be correct to do so. Though I don't consider myself such. I've just decided to spread awareness. Maybe it will result in a better world. Maybe subhumans will be consciously more evil as a result. I'll see.

>> No.13004205

>>13003988
That's what you think, but you are wrong and in denial. You need to engage with something, constantly keeping an open mind, to actually enjoy it and form your own opinion. You won't enjoy anything if you tell yourself from the start that you are going to dislike it.

>> No.13004214

>>13004193
Cringe

>> No.13004225

>>13003136
Schoenberg Op. 42 and Sibelius Op. 105 are both great though.

>> No.13004227
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13004227

>>13004214
That's no different to amerimongrels laughing when the laugh track plays in their factory made 'humor'; conditioned response. Free yourself and have access to the full human experience. You're supposed to feel more than cringe.

>> No.13004266

>>13004227
You are laughable. You don't even know me, yet you think you have more experiences and emotions than me because something you wrote made me cringe. Absolutely pathetic.

>> No.13004294

>>12998812
What do you think of Bach?

>> No.13004300

>>13004205
Why do you think being open to an experience is contrary to forcing yourself to engage with it? I forced myself to listen to music while being open to the possibility of learning to enjoy it. I didn't tell myself that wouldn't enjoy it and you only assumed it. But even if I did tell myself I wasn't going to like it, so what? Haven't you ever been pressured to go out and do something you felt sure you wouldn't like, only to find yourself enjoying it? For somebody that starts a conversation by calling other people retarded, you're clearly not a good thinker.

>> No.13004372

>>13000000

>> No.13004423

>>13004266
>You are laughable.
I'm not taking myself too seriously.
>yet you think you have more experiences and emotions than me
You had a conditioned response. You are a pavlovized ape, not a human.

>> No.13004430

>>13004300
Do you even know what the word "forced" means? Go ask a girl that was forced to have sex her entire life if she likes having sex.
>Haven't you ever been pressured to go out and do something you felt sure you wouldn't like, only to find yourself enjoying it?
Yeah, what does it have to do with this? Music isn't just one thing dude, and if you didn't like that thing than that's it. That's not how music works you just have to listen to something rhythmic, while having an open mind. You aren't special because you don't like music man, and maybe those people who actually like it are just like you. Think about what you would say to someone who only listens to music and hates literature. Maybe it's not a big deal changing your opinion. I do that all the time. That's what you should think. I'm sure you'll enjoy it then :).

>> No.13004466

>>13001418
Jazz is built off western classical music

>> No.13004472

>>13004423
>I'm not taking myself too seriously.
Some said uh-huh and you responded with
>You'll always be ugly and evil.

>conditioned response
What does that even mean dude, stop taking yourself so seriously man. You got but hurt, that's fine. Just relax. It happens. You aren't some supreme being. You are an idiot, just like me, and just like anyone else.

>> No.13004482

>>13001849
Because in the case of most people, OP is unfortunately right. It hardly matters what the objective qualities of music are when it is most commonly abused for superficial purposes.

>> No.13004496

>>13004472
>Some said uh-huh and you responded with
>You'll always be ugly and evil.
Stay mad, ugly and evil.

>What does that even mean dude
have sex stay fresh wash your penis incel cringe based and redpilled lol lmao

>> No.13004565

>>13001141
This should have ended the thread.
People who can't appreciate music haven't picked up an instrument and stuck with it.
It's a beautiful feeling once you become ever so slightly capable in the majority of techniques.

>> No.13004779

I'm an electrical engineer and i can tell you that no art is ever going to make you better at your job or social life. To improve at life you have to work, learn and talk to a lot of people. No short story or novel or album or movie or tv-series or anime is going to improve your life. They all offer some sort of escape from life, and they are really bad if you are a procrastinator. Music isn't any better then literature, and literature isn't better then music. Stop with this nonsense.

>> No.13004783

>>12998812
Take something like schopie and turn him upside down.

>> No.13004798

>>12998934
LARM BABY!

>> No.13004805

>>13000020
>with what ultimately amounts to a sort of vanity and groupthink that really has very little to do with the actual art itself.
Only a person who couldn't see the merit in music itself would say that, just as an autistic person who couldn't see the subtext in a conversation would call it shallow. If anything groupthink would be more prevalent in literature where the same handful of classics are reread and generally unchanging, which is why book clubs are popular even among housewives.

>> No.13004856

>>13004779
based

>> No.13004874

>>13004805
The most arrogant and manipulative people on the planet are the ones who read a lot. Weird right, it's like people use reading as a coping mechanism and not because they get enjoyment from it. Wonder where this also happens..

>> No.13004877

>>12998812
I hear certain types of music can give you ear cancer.

>> No.13004951

>>13002683
what’s so good about sex?

>> No.13005057

In hunter-gatherer society music existed to serve ritual purposes and to strengthen the bonds within tribe. In modern society it functions as a sedative to numb our pain from a stressful and alienated existence. It provides our brains with an illusory sense of belonging and meaning.
Music acts precisely as a low-intensity low-addictice drug. For some people it's at the point where they can't stand the silence even for a short while. This anxiety is simply cravings for the drug.

>> No.13005065

>>13004877
Yeah, 10/10 creepypasta

>> No.13005088

Pseuds cant handle music because it's not reductive enough for them
>I like music
>Why tho?
>I just do lol

>> No.13005158

imagine not being able to enjoy music

very sad state of affairs

>> No.13005177

Music is the most important of all the arts, I've know people who have never read a book or watched a full movie, but there's no non deaf people who haven't heard music

>> No.13005324

>>12998812
>purely sensual and lacking in any intellectual and lasting value
if you don't see parallels between the colour of harmony in music and the blend of paints in art, or the rhythmic and percussive intentions of poetry, or even Tarkovsky's idea of sculpting in time, then you're a moron who can't think on a harmonious level. Why inhibit the development of one of your senses? Why not appreciate the world's beauty through every conceivable avenue?

>> No.13005344

SENSES GOOD
BLATO MORON

>> No.13005396
File: 31 KB, 410x410, 1385892502761.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13005396

>>12998812
have you considered suicide?

>> No.13005450

>>13003117
Except it does because it prevents the labor force from killing themselves or others, or from resisting the state. They can headbang to some metal instead of driving their car into oncoming traffic lol

>> No.13005971

>>13005177
Even deaf people like music.

>> No.13005977

>>13004798
PLAY FASTER!

>> No.13006019

>>13001928
what I like most is that I've fucked to several of these albums

>> No.13006040

>>13006019
Have offspring

>> No.13006090

the unspoken fact of the matter is that /mu/ fags have leaked into this board and are clearly the cancer that is killing this board.
We used to have music hate threads all the time.

>> No.13006100

>>12998812
*ahem*
have sex

>> No.13006102

>>13004805
>>13004874
fags.

>> No.13006119

lol @ all the /mu/ fags acting ls if liking music and "getting sex" are at all related outside of the fact that women are retarded and are very susceptible to its snakelike superficial charms. lol @ you fucking wannabe predators, you're the real fags.

>> No.13006334

>>13006119
lol

>> No.13006834

>>13004779
>better then
It shows.

>> No.13007057

>>13004779
Based STEMtard

>> No.13007110
File: 10 KB, 128x198, hatred of music.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13007110

>>12998812
>Throughout Pascal Quignard's distinguished literary career, music has been a recurring obsession. As a musician he organized the International Festival of Baroque Opera and Theatre at Versailles in the early 1990s, and thus was instrumental in the rediscovery of much forgotten classical music. Yet in 1994 he abruptly renounced all musical activities.The Hatred of Musicis Quignard's masterful exploration of the power of music and what history reveals about the dangers it poses.

>> No.13007120

>>13007110
already toasted
get raped

>> No.13007175

>>12998812
Music that actively tries to be art I would argue is the highest form of music, because it has the ability to transmit complex through hearing, a more abstract sense than vision.

>> No.13007423
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13007423

>>13006119

>> No.13007433

>>13007175
Smelling is an even more abstract sense, I guess farting is the ultimate artform.

>> No.13009015

>>12998812
>lacking any intellectual and lasting value
Wrong.

>> No.13009085

>OP asks for bibliography
>"how u DARE investigating some view I personally believe is wrong"

Gee, /lit/, leave the man alone. Plenty of thinkers have written in favor of music, I wouldn't be surprised that a there's a fes that despised it.

>> No.13009116

>>13009085
Plenty have, it's just easily proven wrong and it's a form of brazen literary elitism, which is gay.

>> No.13009221

>>13001241

I'm sure Jazz is Fascist too.

>> No.13009228

>>13001204

Is the dopamine poster the sperm poster?

>> No.13009243
File: 52 KB, 320x214, D6AE99E9-9F63-48E4-876F-017211B794CC.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13009243

Why did you pick Bowie for the original post? You trying to flex on David?

>> No.13009262

>>13004430
Reddit's the other way.

>> No.13009288

>>13009085
>/lit/ is everyone recommendations board
>no discussion of the topic what so ever
No. If you come in with some bullshit that 90% of the people think is retarded then I'll better prepare to get called a faggot. /r/ is there for a reason and a single bing search would have delivered some results too.

>> No.13009327
File: 131 KB, 2898x2508, 1553014761553.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13009327

>>12998812
>Give me arguments to support my unexamined beliefs
This is rock bottom brainlet tier.

>> No.13009385

>>13009243
OP here, the picture was chosen at random, please stop seeking subtexts where there aren't. If anything, Bowie is among the better ones, he was a true artist, always inventing various characters, acting in films, his lyrics were poetic and story-driven.

>> No.13009440

>>12998812
Sabaton made me interested in history, which directly lead to me learning Greek and Latin in order to study classical literature. It's a stupid reason to become interested in something, but I can honestly say it's uplifted my life. What's wrong with that?

>> No.13009459
File: 480 KB, 498x335, D91F84C0-1353-41DD-AB82-11B93A1AB5FA.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13009459

>>13009385
Bowie is a an artist, Station to Station is the perfect blend of song crafting, intricate themes that are carried into the composition, and the juxtaposition of crisp professionalism and zombified coked our deliveries make the undead sociopathic fascist Superman he is becoming and seeking to portray. The soulless club room tracks and pounding instrumentals of the unfeeling iron train barreling onwards without purpose or introspection.
>mfw the sounds of the train going by slowly morph into the title track and Bowie’s sinister voice starts in

>> No.13009542

>>12998812
>"music, which I regard as the lowliest of arts"
>">>12998821 >>12998858 >>12998861 >>12998865 >>12998881 >>12998923 >>12999108 >>12999191 >>12999215 >>12999249 >>12999389 >>12999476 >>12999580 >>12999678 >>12999785 >>12999840 >>12999929 >>12999930 >>13000040 >>13000055 >>13000146 >>13000393 >>13000422 >>13000579 >>13000898 >>13001024 >>13001031 >>13001085 >>13001181 >>13001304 >>13001347 >>13001374 >>13001821 >>13001921 >>13001928 >>13002142 >>13002683 >>13003032 >>13003117 >>13003339 >>13003545 >>13003807 >>13003868 >>13003971 >>13004294 >>13004783 >>13004877 >>13005324 >>13005396 >>13006100 >>13007110 >>13007175 >>13009015 >>13009327 >>13009440"
Spectators: angry

>> No.13009672

>>13004779
What if i am an art teacher? What then?

>> No.13009684
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13009684

>if I respond to everyone that doesn't share my opinion they all become wrong

>> No.13009691

>>13009542
Oh my god you are the worst

>> No.13009939

>ctrl+f Kreutzer Sonata
>no hits
It's one of Tolstoy's most famous novellas and it is precisely about this subject. He also wrote an elaborated epilogue to the Kreutzer Sonata in which he expands on music and its effect on the psyche and sexuality

>> No.13010025

>>13009542
Lol you spent time compiling that post, I'm better than you

>> No.13010066

>>13004779
>i can tell you that no art is ever going to make you better at your job or social life
working musician here, I can say with some authority you're talking absolute nonsense. And, I might add, from a POV that has no experience of art as a genuine livelihood (you are an electrical engineer, after all). Being a musician makes me better at my job (self-explanatory), and the majority of my friends are musicians and creatives. My life improved because I invested a huge amount of time in my craft. This is the same in any field.

>> No.13010073

>>13006834
>>13007057
>>13009672
>>13010066
I copied it from the /mu/ thread lol.

>> No.13010232

so this is a bait thread?

>> No.13010659

>>13009939
The Tolstoy that also composed a waltz and used to play the piano part of the sonata himself, you mean. And if you thought the epilogue was about music in particular, and not the general state of relationships, go read it again.

>> No.13011023

>>13009542
Best post, bless you

>> No.13011029

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ipLpdECjf9A
This is my argument as to why music is the only art worth having.
Dio.

>> No.13011101

>>12999090
>not owning up to your autism

>> No.13011232

>>12998812
You sound like a moron and an autist.

Fact: your brain is retarded in certain areas, causing you to be unable to appreciate music.

It's fine, but don't think you're superior, you're handicapped. Nobody will give a fuck about whatever bullshit you could come up with.

Orgasms would be shit from this autistic point of view. You should not have been more than an orgasm.

>> No.13011867
File: 789 KB, 1241x2880, trap.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
13011867

Become a musicologist.

>> No.13011876

>>12998812
>purely sensual and lacking in any intellectual and lasting value
So is beauty. Do you deny the value of beauty?

>> No.13012596

bump