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/lit/ - Literature

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12906426 No.12906426[DELETED]  [Reply] [Original]

I cant wait, were living history in the making

>> No.12906428

>>12906426
Pure clown world.

>> No.12906432

>>12906428
>SHABBOS GOY A VS. SHABBOS GOY B
>WHOEVER WINS, WE GET JEWED

>> No.12906440
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12906440

>>12906432
I forgot to attach my pic related.

>> No.12906444

>>12906426
people will hate but Peterson will be remembered in the history books a very important person for the modern discourse

>> No.12906445

>discussion between two professionals
>titled "Happiness"
wat...

>> No.12906452

>>12906445
?

>> No.12906455

>>12906452
why do you exist

>> No.12906456

>>12906426
>Capitalism vs Marxism

What? The title doesn't even make sense. How can you compare a socioeconomic system to a method of analysing said system.

>> No.12906509
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12906509

>>12906426
>Peterson
>Capitalism
Lol no

>> No.12906552

>>12906444
He will be remembered as an infuential person but more as a warning not to fall in love with demagogues than for his actual work.

>> No.12906557

>>12906456
It's pretty obvious that Marxism has become interchangable with Marxist-communism in the last few years (mostly due to mongs).

>> No.12906601

>>12906557
>last few years

>> No.12906621
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12906621

>>12906426
you should lower your expectations

>> No.12906750

>>12906444
Literally nobody will remember Peterson in history books

>> No.12906773

>>12906444
He will forever be tied to the incels he exploits nothing more or less.

>> No.12906779

>>12906428
Yep. But we'll eat it up anyways. Remember how long people talked about the Harris debate?

>> No.12906781

>>12906456
You could argue Capitalism is self-reflexive.

>> No.12906821

>>12906509
Um, yes. You can be drawn in for several reasons. His culture wars stuff, his paternal guidance stuff, his Jungian mumbo jumbo stuff, his hard empirical/biological stuff, his pwning sjw stuff, or just to watch a man think he can win points in an argument by making intellectual gestures with his hands.

But the effect of Peterson is a vindication of the status quo. And unless you're mega delusional or reasoning in bad faith as he does in order to suffocate or redirect any critical idea you rightly recognize that capitalism is still the status quo.

>> No.12906823

>>12906821
such an old leftie talking point

>> No.12906830

>>12906444
>>12906552
his glorious rug design will be all people will remember

>> No.12907122

>>12906509
>promotes capital ownership by private individuals
>not capitalism

wut

>> No.12907220

>>12906444
name one self-help author from the 70's

>> No.12907227

>>12907220
Alan Watts

>> No.12907236

>>12907220
Steve Jobs

>> No.12907560

>>12906455
A little retarded this morning, are we?

>> No.12907685

>>12907227
I feel bad seing this name in such a silly thread.

>> No.12907691

>>12907685
He's literally the JBP of his time.

>> No.12907715

>>12907691
at least JBP butchers his own culture, Watts had his way with poor chinks and japs

>> No.12907786

>>12906426
I don't understand this. Aren't we always living history in the making?

>> No.12907804

>>12907786
most of what happens isn't history

>> No.12907909

>>12907691
Don't agree with that.
If you wanted to take spiritual stuff of Watts and bullshit of Peterson, you would get Deepak Chopra.
Watts is conscious and open about him being an actor and pursues a more interesting goals than a clean room.

>> No.12907920

>>12906823
not him but, does being "an old leftie talking point" somehow make the argument less valid?

>> No.12907947

>>12907909
>Watts is conscious and open about him being an actor and pursues a more interesting goals than a clean room.
like getting drunk every day?

>> No.12907954

>>12907920
it's not an argument, it's a slogan

>> No.12907955

>>12906444
>patting sad teen boys on the back and telling them how strong and tough they are
the stuff of legends

>> No.12907994

>>12907920
No, but I didn't really intend it as such

>> No.12908004

>>12907909
Watts just said that as a disclaimer so that the church and Zen OGs didn't fuck with him

>> No.12908006

>>12907954
"an old leftie talking point" is a slogan

>> No.12908013

>>12906426
>you have to buy tickets for the live stream
prime capitalism

>> No.12908022

>>12907954
So even if it is a "slogan" you have just moved the talking point from "old leftie talking point" to "slogan" in an attempt to state your opinion, without having to put your neck out to actually try to have a discussion about it.
So in other words, you believe things, and dont want to stand for them, in case you are proven wrong, in which; worst case scenario, the absolute horror might strike you that you may be wrong.

>> No.12908023

>>12906426
> People genuinely care about a couple of pseuds dancing for the enjoyment of the unwashed masses
I-I thought /lit/ was the smartest board.

>> No.12908044
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12908044

>>12908023
based Diogenese anon, masturbating in a barrel rather than watching Plato and Aristotle dance about the agora for the enjoyment of the unwashed masses

>> No.12908059

>And that's the bloody thing about Marxism. We learned in the 20th century that that is a road you do not want to go down, bucko.
>*sniffs* Pure ideology. *sniffs*
>What are you, some kind of dragon of chaos? Haven't you even studied lobsters? Even they have a dominance heirachy, man.
>*sniffs* Consider the difference between German and French or English toilets. The design of a country's toilets says much about the advancement of its capitalist process. German toilets have a little shelf where the feces can be examined before flushing, for example. It's pure ideology. *sniffs*
>I think Solzhenitsyn would have something to say about that, man.
>*sniffs*

>> No.12908070

>>12908044
> Lobsterson and that commie with a lisp are Plato and Aristotle
Them's fighting words.

>> No.12908076
File: 79 KB, 1280x720, lobsterson.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]
12908076

>>12908059
SO BANE - AND THAT'S THE BLOODY THING ABOUT BANE - HE REPRESENTS CHAOS, IN FACT, HE'S AN AGENT OF CHAOS, AND IN CONTRAST, WE HAVE CIA, WHO REPRESENTS ORDER, ROUGHLY SPEAKING. BUT CIA, IN HIS BITTER RESENTMENT, IN HIS-HIS POSTMODERN CULTURAL MARXIST IDEOLOGY, HE TRIES TO TAME THE CHAOS - AND THAT'S A BAD IDEA MAN, IT'S LIKE-IT'S LIKE IF YOU TRIED TAMING FIRE, IT'S JUST GOING TO LEAVE YOU BURNT. BUT CIA, HE TRIES ANYWAY, MOTIVATED BY A LUST FOR POWER - AND IT'S LIKE - GOD ITS SO SAD - ITS LIKE YOU'RE NOT A BIG GUY! YOU'RE NOT A BIG GUY, AND NO POSTMODERN RATIONALIZATION WILL CHANGE THAT. THE EVIDENCE IS CLEAR. THE SCIENTIFIC LITERATURE IS EXPLICIT ON THIS MATTER. AND SPEAKING OF TAMING FIRE - WHAT HAPPENS BY THE END OF CIA'S 'EXPERIMENT'? THE FIRE IS NOT TAMED, QUITE THE OPPOSITE, IT'S ACTUALLY RISING. AND THIS DEMONSTRATES EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED IN THE 20TH CENTURY. AND IT'S LIKE SOLZHENITSYN WRITES IN THE GULAG ARCHIPELAGO - THE BLOODY MARXISTS ATTEMPTED TO QUELL FIRE, BUT IN DOING SO THEY MERELY FUELED IT. AND WELL ACTUALLY, THEY DID QUITE A BIT MORE. YOU CAN'T PRETEND TO BE A BIG GUY IF YOU'RE NOT. WE TRIED THAT EXPERIMENT IN THE 20TH CENTURY, AND IT WAS A BAD IDEA MAN! AND IT. IS. NOT. A. ROUTE. YOU. WANT. TO. GO. DOWN.

>> No.12908085
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12908085

>>12907909
Peterson is a deep jungian.

Literally 90% of what he says is jungian. If you think Peterson is stupid or whatever, then you think Jung is stupid or whatever

I cant even picture someone being so retarded as to attack Jung.

>> No.12908172

>>12907804
There is something in every year that, presumably for the next few centuries, will be of historical importance for some story or another.

>> No.12908185

>>12908085
>I cant even picture someone being so retarded as to attack Jung.
His beard looked stupid

>> No.12908232

>>12906426
Did Peterson insist of having the 'Dr.' added to his name? Because Žižek also has a Ph.D. and a professorship.

>> No.12908241

>>12908232
Peterson is a clinical psychologist, so, he's technically an actual proper doctor; not just some idiot who melted his brain with commie propaganda.

>> No.12908245

>>12908070
curious you are fine with calling a random nobody on an anonymous cat breeding forum Diogenese

>> No.12908247

>>12906557
>oi neck urself u uttah uttah mong, u coont
faggot

>> No.12908254

>>12908023
>I thought /lit/ was the smartest board.
Imagine being this new and retarded

>> No.12908255

>>12908085
attacking jung is really easy

the ideas of the collective unconscious and synchronicity is pure stoner talk

>> No.12908283

>>12908241
When you get a Ph.D. in Europe you become a doctor. The title literally becomes part of your name. Medical doctors are of a lower rank than scientific doctors with a dissertation.

>> No.12908307

>>12908283
it's like that everywhere but brainlets who have never been to university can post on 4channel too

>> No.12908391

>>12907947
If that's where your inner journey leads to.
Whoever said that truth will set you free was a liar. Either you want to be happily ignorant in a clean room or aware of the truth and miserable. And this is not really your choice, but your natural programming.

>> No.12908536

>>12907909
>Alan Watts
Esoteric boomerism.
Literal feel-good """spirituality"""

>> No.12908665
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12908665

>>12908255
In the left corner we have ...
>Carl Jung
Standing tall at the most venerated and respect psychoanalyst of all time, weighing in at 15 to 25 thousand pages of revered and beautiful insights into the nature of human life ...

And in the right corner ...
>Anon using an ad hominem

>> No.12908731

>>12906428
fpbp

>> No.12908775

>>12908391
idk anon I don't think it's a coincidence that pretty much all the highest level spiritual teachers or Maha Thera Buddhist monks are some of the most joyful, happy, pure beings in the world, and Alan Watts, supposedly on the same level as them or higher, was a sad drunk.
Unless you believe that Watts had some greater insight into reality than the other spiritual teachers, and that the others are just blissfully ignorant, but again I highly doubt that is the case.

>> No.12908992

>>12908283
>Medical doctors are of a lower rank than scientific doctors with a dissertation.
not for normal people, nobody cares about your Ph.D in anthropology

>> No.12909157

>>12908185
what beard?

>> No.12909163

>>12906426
You're salivating over the prospect of some cheap entertainment not worth watching by any measure, don't kid yourself.

>> No.12909237

>>12908665
And in the centrist(tm) corner we have a moron who gets his talking points from right wing ding dongs with cartoon avatars instead of listening to academic consensus on subjects above their head.

>> No.12909249

>>12908247
>Still calling someone a faggot when faggotry is more socially accepted than ever
I am owned past any measure.

>> No.12909270

they're basically going to argue that the other guy doesn't fully understand the concepts that they're talking about.


I'm not a huge Foucault fan, but I think ths quote is apt "I like discussions, and when I am asked questions, I try to answer them. It’s true that I don’t like to get involved in polemics. If I open a book and see that the author is accusing an adversary of “infantile leftism” or "reactionary right-wing posturing" I shut it again right away. That’s not my way of doing things; I don’t belong to the world of people who do things that way. I insist on this difference as something essential: a whole morality is at stake, the one that concerns the search for truth and the relation to the other.

In the serious play of questions and answers, in the work of reciprocal elucidation, the rights of each person are in some sense immanent in the discussion. They depend only on the dialogue situation. The person asking the questions is merely exercising the right that has been given him: to remain unconvinced, to perceive a contradiction, to require more information, to emphasize different postulates, to point out faulty reasoning, and so on. As for the person answering the questions, he too exercises a right that does not go beyond the discussion itself; by the logic of his own discourse, he is tied to what he has said earlier, and by the acceptance of dialogue he is tied to the questioning of other. Questions and answers depend on a game — a game that is at once pleasant and difficult — in which each of the two partners takes pains to use only the rights given him by the other and by the accepted form of dialogue.

The polemicist , on the other hand, proceeds encased in privileges that he possesses in advance and will never agree to question. On principle, he possesses rights authorizing him to wage war and making that struggle a just undertaking; the person he confronts is not a partner in search for the truth but an adversary, an enemy who is wrong, who is armful, and whose very existence constitutes a threat. For him, then the game consists not of recognizing this person as a subject having the right to speak but of abolishing him as interlocutor, from any possible dialogue; and his final objective will be not to come as close as possible to a difficult truth but to bring about the triumph of the just cause he has been manifestly upholding from the beginning. The polemicist relies on a legitimacy that his adversary is by definition denied.

Perhaps, someday, a long history will have to be written of polemics, polemics as a parasitic figure on discussion and an obstacle to the search for the truth"

he's right

>> No.12909275

>>12908085
Jung is literally the psychology version of feels > reals.

>> No.12909314

>>12908665
By stoner talk I mean none of his theories are empircally verifiable

>> No.12909348

>>12908085
>I cant even picture someone being so retarded as to attack Jung.
He is literally a pseudoscientific bullshit clap-traper.

>> No.12909351

>>12909348
you are a 4chan poster

>> No.12909395
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12909395

>>12909351

>> No.12909648

>>12908775
I don't care for joy, I want the truth!!! The pursuit for happiness is for the feeble minded.
Watts being a sad drunk makes his story nice and bittersweet. This is /lit/, you should understand that.

>> No.12909668

>>12909351
dont worry about it anon, these are sad people who need to come to a realization about themselves

>> No.12909711

>>12909648
>>12908775
>Unless you believe that Watts had some greater insight into reality than the other spiritual teachers, and that the others are just blissfully ignorant, but again I highly doubt that is the case.
Do you really think that because Watts was a sad drunk, he had deeper insight into the truth of things than all the lifelong monks who, in contrast, are full of joy?
That is what I'm getting from your reply.
Also, in the case of Buddhist monks, the pursuit is not for happiness but for freedom from suffering. The happiness/joy comes as a byproduct, and even that is undercut by equanimity, as the monks see happiness as transitory at best.
What do you really think are the chances, that all these many lifelong devoted spiritual seekers, monks and the like, are all wrong and haven't seen the truth, the real truth, and that Alan Watts, a single 20th century anglo who dropped acid and briefly explored different Eastern philosophical and religious texts, has it all right and has seen the "truth," has attained to a greater level of spiritual insight and wisdom than the people I mentioned before?

>> No.12909723

>>12908085
I wonder what would Jung say about your response.

Also Peterson is no Jung.

>> No.12909778

>>12909723
I agree with his post -Jung

>> No.12909829

>>12909711
Ok, let's get a little more serious.
I don't think Watts has "seen the truth". But he saw stuff, he experienced stuff. Part of that was dropping acid, part was access to different cultures, part was being a sad drunk. Buddist monks close themselves for lots of things and focus on little and they find this as a virtue. I agree and understand, that happiness might come just as a byproduct. But the search of freedom from suffering seems as silly to me. This is all care for utility, not care for understanding for it's own sake. Damn... I sound like a buddist now - stop wanting things.

I'm not sure there even is a "right path" if you want the truth. Or "the right path" is to have an entire civilization of indivituals and let them explore different paths. One might get somewhere.

If you want happiness, religion is probably your best bet - if you can drop this kind of acid. I'm not into that.
I'd rather have a beer with Watts, than a night in a cave meditating with whoever. And this is alot because I find him as a more interesting character from the /lit/ point of view, with his flaws and weaknesses. He is truth, happy buddist monk is a cartoon.

>> No.12909835

>>12908255
>>12909348
>>12909314
I don't see anything on https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Analytical_psychology about it being considered pseudoscience nowadays
>inb4 muh wikipedia
Check the references or post a better source then

>> No.12909878

>>12907220
Why that decade specifically?

>> No.12909881

>>12909648
>I don't care for joy, I want the truth!!! The pursuit for happiness is for the feeble minded.
Only sheltered people who've never gone through real suffering say stupid bullshit like this.

>> No.12909901

>>12909881
Learn to cope with your pains and reach for more.

>> No.12909928 [DELETED] 

>>12909829
okay I'll try my best to reply here
>He experienced stuff, he saw stuff.
Fair, we all do.
>Buddhist monks close themselves
I'm not totally sure what you mean by this, but I'll assume you're implying that they close themselves off from the world. This is not the rule. Usually this depends on the monk's individual personality: some like total lifelong seclusion, some like to get involved in humanitarian efforts to help people outside of the monastery, some are like Buddhist academics, some travel the world to give teachings, some teach Buddhism to eager followers, hell, some even have youtube channels to share their teachings.
>Focus on little and they find this as a virtue
Satisfaction with little, frugality, yes they consider this a virtue.
>Search for freedom from suffering seems silly
Well, that's your call. I suppose Buddhism isn't what you're looking for if that's how you feel.
>All care for utility, not understanding for its own sake.
I'm going to try not to sound preachy from here on, and I'm not suggesting that I'm right and you're wrong. Since we have ended up on the subject of Buddhism, I'll try to explain what I understand are the Buddhist viewpoints on this.
A Buddhist would say that desire for understanding of the cosmos for the sake of understanding is still just unskillful desire like any other, though in this case it is an intellectual desire: desire to understand reality as though such an understanding would produce lasting satisfaction. This is like a chasing a carrot on a stick. This chase for understanding for the sake of understanding will never satisfy. There is a dialogue on this topic:
(pt 1)

>> No.12909949 [DELETED] 

>>12909829
"It's just as if a man were wounded with an arrow thickly smeared with poison. His friends & companions, kinsmen & relatives would provide him with a surgeon, and the man would say, 'I won't have this arrow removed until I know whether the man who wounded me was a noble warrior, a brahman, a merchant, or a worker.' He would say, 'I won't have this arrow removed until I know the given name & clan name of the man who wounded me... until I know whether he was tall, medium, or short... until I know whether he was dark, ruddy-brown, or golden-colored... until I know his home village, town, or city... until I know whether the bow with which I was wounded was a long bow or a crossbow... until I know whether the bowstring with which I was wounded was fiber, bamboo threads, sinew, hemp, or bark... until I know whether the shaft with which I was wounded was wild or cultivated... until I know whether the feathers of the shaft with which I was wounded were those of a vulture, a stork, a hawk, a peacock, or another bird... until I know whether the shaft with which I was wounded was bound with the sinew of an ox, a water buffalo, a langur, or a monkey.' He would say, 'I won't have this arrow removed until I know whether the shaft with which I was wounded was that of a common arrow, a curved arrow, a barbed, a calf-toothed, or an oleander arrow.' The man would die and those things would still remain unknown to him.

"In the same way, if anyone were to say, 'I won't live the holy life under the Blessed One as long as he does not declare to me that 'The cosmos is eternal,'... or that 'After death a Tathagata neither exists nor does not exist,' the man would die and those things would still remain undeclared by the Tathagata."
>I'm not sure there even is a "right path" if you want the truth."
I agree with you entirely here (at least if you're pursuing the truth of the cosmos, of the origin of existence, questions of that nature). I'd say there are different paths for different purposes.
>If you want happiness, religion is probably your best bet.
I don't know how much I would agree here. I know many people that consider themselves religious who are absolutely miserable people.
>He is truth, happy Buddhist monk is a cartoon.
I mean, I thought you just established that you don't think he's "seen the truth" or that there even is a "right path." I guess this sorta thing comes down to opinion though.
I hope my posts were of some use at all. At the very least this short discussion was pleasant.

>> No.12909977 [DELETED] 

>>12909829
>>12909928
>>12909949
I feel like a goof for even replying to you, I don't even know why I did at this point. I'm gonna stop posting now.
Godspeed anon. Hope you find what you're looking for someday.

>> No.12910032

>>12909949
What is this arrow you're speaking of? I am not wounded by it. I found this arrow laid bare in this desert. Inspect me at once, anon, does it appear to you that I am in any sort of mortal danger?
It is only my nature to be curious, investigative of this here strange arrow. So that I may indeed become adept at this skill and improve on its seemingly ubiquitous design.

>> No.12910038

>>12909949
Lame anon why did you delete your post..... now mine makes no sense.

>> No.12910048

>>12909928
>I'll assume you're implying that they close themselves off from the world
Asceticism, being interested less in other cultures, other paths. Maybe the "white race" was so successful because it was able to steal ideas from others, not only gaze into it's own culture.

>youtube channels to share their teachings
Sure. I'm a subscriber to one.

About the search for freedom from suffering
This is still your ego and thinking about stuff that is useful to you. Even buddist jump over this. Stop caring about your wants.

>This chase for understanding for the sake of understanding will never satisfy.
Yes, if we are talking about a single lifetime. And that's a good thing. Everything else gets boring, this - not.

>I know many people that consider themselves religious who are absolutely miserable people.
Maybe so. Still probably more often happy than other drug users. You might also want to check deists vs atheists suicide rates

>I thought you just established that you don't think he's "seen the truth"
"seen the truth" is not the same as "he is truth". His life as a whole seems more... real, more human.

>I hope my posts were of some use at all. At the very least this short discussion was pleasant.
Yes it was, thank you.

>>12909977
>I feel like a goof for even replying to you, I don't even know why I did at this point. I'm gonna stop posting now.
>Godspeed anon. Hope you find what you're looking for someday.
Don't be so hard on yourself. And I'd rather want my road never to end. Finding stuff might be like hitting a wall.

>> No.12910150

>>12910048
Ok I'll jump in at one last point cause you'll probably find this interesting.
>About the search for freedom from suffering
This is still your ego and thinking about stuff that is useful to you. Even buddist jump over this. Stop caring about your wants.
In Buddhism, when Nirvana is reached, the Buddhist relinquishes even desire for freedom from suffering at the last bit, or else they cannot be free. Up until the end of the path desire for Nirvana is considered a "skillful desire" but at the end even that desire must be abandoned. They use the simile of using a raft to cross a great expanse of water. Once the farther shore is reached, the raft is no longer necessary, and it would make no sense to lug it around with you on land. This is the case with Buddhist teachings. Once the destination is reached, even the teachings and desire for the promises of the teachings must be abandoned.
There is an excellent talk I read awhile back about how while the promises of spiritual paths are equanimity and effortlessness, it requires effort and desire to work towards such a state. The talk gave a comparison with some mechanic of quantum physics, to make it easier to understand. I wish that I could find it right now but I can't sorry.

>> No.12910276

>>12908255
>unironically uses the phrase "stoner talk"
stoners are the shamans of our time