/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12473809]

Why do people pretend they read finnegans wake?

[Anonymous No.12473822]

>>12473809
Because it's a masterpiece?

[Anonymous No.12473836]

>>12473822
sure, but is unreadable.

Almost as atonal music, which is unlistenable.

It's interesting intellectually, but complete devoid of aesthetical value.

[Anonymous No.12473852]

If you don't find the word "penisolate" humorous there's something wrong with you. It's like peninsula + isolate but also penis - it is incredibly high-brow humour from the tamer of farts himself.

[Anonymous No.12473859]

>>12473852
almost as interesting as those modern art indie films that are just recordings of random streets where nothing happens.

intelectual masturbation for snobs.

[Anonymous No.12473880]

>>12473836
It's not unreadable, but in terms of understanding the interpretations can be near infinite. You say it has no aesthetic merit but actually the style is nuanced and complex. The puns in the OP are just an example of that.

[Anonymous No.12473888]

>>12473880
there's artistic merit on also atonal and noice music, and there's artistic merit on modern art.

I'm not saying the piece is a masterpiece, I disagree with the obsession of originality the art world has taken in the last century, disregarding the tradition.

[Anonymous No.12473909]

>Finnegans wake

[Anonymous No.12473913]

>>12473809
They think that wordplay makes good art for some reason.

[Anonymous No.12473922]

>>12473888
You are just annoyed that modernism (& postmodernism) have taken the impetus of art being "beautiful" to something which provokes thought (although I agree that in some ways the art that can be created is ugly). The piece is also extremely difficult which maybe is why you don't feel the merit in it?

[Anonymous No.12473930]

>>12473836
You could say the same thing about prog or rap or classical music, anything you don't like is going to sound dumb compared to the things you do like. People have tastes, get over it

[Anonymous No.12473957]

>>12473416

[Anonymous No.12473961]

>>12473922
>>12473930
I'm not disagreeing with the piece.

I disagree with the ideology that the piece promotes, or more so, the ideology in art that modern art tries to seek.

It seems there's a dicothomy in the art world, which I don't understand.

The commercial art world is focused on pure entertainment, they're still trained sometimes on classical techniques to form appeal.
However since their goal is monetary, they have to simplify their work for the masses, which are dumb, and it lacks any kind of meaningfull substance.

However, the art world is focused on experimentation and a liberal lefties agenda they proclaim is more thoughfull, anything in the art world that promoves feminism or gay agenda or progressive politics is heralded and promoted today by the art world.
Also, they disregard classical concepts of beauty because they represent old patriarchal values of the west, clearly a white heterosexual christian culture they must destroy.

And so, we now have both popular entertainment, which is trash, but also fine art which is also trash, but trash for intelectuals.

[Anonymous No.12473994]

>>12473852
HAHA BENIS :DDDDDDDDDD
FINNEGANS WAKE? MORE LIKE FINNA WOKE AMIRITE XD

[Anonymous No.12474004]

>>12473961
Well stop bitching about visual art on lit then. If your problem is with vanity and capitalism please don't take it out on our beloved fartfucker.

[Anonymous No.12474014]

>>12473961
your post has nothing to do with joyce. if you think early 20th century modernism has anything to do with the gay agenda 100 years later you're fucking retarded

[Anonymous No.12474031]

>>12474004
It's more with anoyance at this dychotomy.

modern artists think that fine art is about experimentation and making random stuff, rather than expressing themselves with the techniques and craft that was developed in the tradition.

>>12474014
I'm complaining about the modern state of the art world.

Like I said, I don't have grudges against joyce, but it seems more like listening to atonal music and listening to some drunk ramblings simply because they use multilingual portmanteus.

An intelectual curiosity, nonetheless, but ultimately, devoid of the appeal entertainment has.

[Anonymous No.12474034]

>>12473809
Is Finnegans Wake the Death Grips of literature or is it more like Pink Floyd?

[Anonymous No.12474037]

>>12473909
Ho ho based

[Anonymous No.12474060]

>>12474034
It's more like pink floyd recording and the unrecognisable Syd Barret coming into the studio.

[Anonymous No.12474065]

Because it's the quintessential example of autofellatory pseud wank and /lit/ is full of tasteless juvenile anglo mediocrities prone to confusing complexity with profoundness, erudition with wisdom and intellectuality with refined taste. Not to mention incapable of actually forming their own opinions and relying solely on parroting the stale safe consensus. FW is absolutely brilliant as a linguistic puzzle and worthy of admiration as one, but it's a shit piece of literature through and through.

[Anonymous No.12474083]

>>12474065
>Because it's the quintessential example of autofellatory pseud wank and /lit/ is full of tasteless juvenile anglo mediocrities prone to confusing complexity with profoundness, erudition with wisdom and intellectuality with refined taste.
Maybe we think it's exactly that yet still like it. Not everything we read is supposed to be "profound."

[Anonymous No.12474090]

>>12474065
>FW is absolutely brilliant as a linguistic puzzle and worthy of admiration as one, but it's a shit piece of literature through and through.
Wouldn't what makes it brilliant also make it a good piece of literature by extension?

[Anonymous No.12474108]

>>12473809
There’s a difference between reading and understanding asshat

[Anonymous No.12474216]

>>12473836
>Almost as atonal music, which is unlistenable.

heh, Plen

[Anonymous No.12474232]

>>12474031
>Reddit spacing on a /pol/ post

[Anonymous No.12474233]

>>12473909
now that's based

[Anonymous No.12474234]

>>12474034
It is the J Dilla of literature

[Anonymous No.12474235]

>>12474034
>Meme Grips
Lol. No music compares to FW. No music compares to any serious lit actually.

[Anonymous No.12474258]

>>12474065
This. In another thread a Finnegans Wake reader said "The book is riddled with beauty". Perhaps he would have a better command of the English language if he read books with actual English words.

[Anonymous No.12474283]

>>12473909
it just doesn't get any more based than this, lads

[Anonymous No.12474527]

You know, I wouldn't mind FW being an incomprehensible gibberish if it least had some aesthetic or musical value. Alas, instead it's all some irish fucktards OI M8s that sound like someone's choking on vomit, mixed with random romantic roots. Words like
>mumper
>mishe
>thuarteatrick
Make me cringe on the inside, whatever they mean

[Anonymous No.12474536]

>>12473836
>but complete devoid of aesthetical value.
You are an absolute retard if you think this applies to the wake.

[Anonymous No.12474557]

>>12474536
>I make portmanteus using dictionaries from 60 languages at the library
>took me 17 years to do this
>huh duh muh huh

Any retard can make portmanteus using a thesaurus, dumbass.

[Anonymous No.12474570]

>>12473909
I DON'T CARE, I'M SAYING IT
THAT MAN IS BASED

[Anonymous No.12474574]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TV3vT5nW_I4

Whoa...he took a word for 'thunder' from a bunch of different languages...and slapped them together. Truly, truly genius work.

[Anonymous No.12474609]

>>12474527
Read the chapter near the end with all the river puns and allusions. It’s the chapter where the women are washing clothes in the Liffey

[Anonymous No.12474723]

>>12473909
Easy now... Don't want to be too BASED this time of year

[Anonymous No.12474787]

Finnegans Wake is doing what Hamlet was trying to do, but in a very convoluted way.

[Anonymous No.12474812]

>>12474557
The funniest part is that today anyone with an access to the Internet could replicate the same thing in under a week. Joyce's """grand work""" is something people wouldn't consider even mildly impressive. Fuck, I bet 5 years from now we're going to have AIs generate Finnegan's Wake-tier novels in a minute.

[Anonymous No.12474833]

>>12473809
Hey, that's actually more readable than I thought it would be. I don't "get" everything, but am I supposed to? I "get" "something", at least.

[Anonymous No.12474996]

>>12474812
Pretty sure that other guy was trolling, but you seem pretty genuinely retarded so I'm here to laugh at you for exposing yourself as someone who doesn't even have the faintest idea of what actually makes up the book. Good job anon, you saw a thread or read a webpage that explained a couple portmanteau of his on the first page. The part you're supposed to from here is continue researching the book so that you may understand it, not assume that one slice of a multiple hundred page book would be the meat of its contents and that you actually understood what the portmanteaus were doing when in reality you didn't even scratch at the surface.
I really don't understand where the teenagers on this board get the nerve to think they're experts on books they haven't even read when men who are 100x more intelligent than they are have dedicated decades to studying things like FW. You've never left your mom's house, what makes you think you know more than professors and scholars? At least read the fucking book first haha. I think it must make you feel good about yourself, but you have to remember that this website is anonymous and nobody actually gives a shit about you or what you say so there's really no reason to be proud of making other teenagers think you're smart or well-read, you know?

[Anonymous No.12475005]

>>12474996
>appeal to autorithy

[Anonymous No.12475034]

>>12475005
they have the authority in the first place because they proved they're smarter than you lol

[Anonymous No.12475056]

>>12474996
>bunch of academy jews told me it's great, therefore it's great!
>how dare you not enjoy something that Smart Critics™ approve of!

[Anonymous No.12475084]

>>12475056
You can argue this either way with all "Literature" but the truth is that people don't come to read things and reflect on them solely out of psuedo-intellectual wankery. Enduring works have enduring readership that spans generations and in essence shape thinkers as we know them: period pieces aren't remembered for good reason, yet the memery of Finnegan's Wake will live on whether or not you think it's deserved. That alone suggests that there's something worth looking over in it, right?

[ΟΥΤΙΣ No.12475099]

It's a magnificent work that is mainly for the author.

>>12473888
Atonal jazz has some merit, but most atonal music doesn't. I would also say modern art is largely soulless. Dadaism was about attacking art because of its shallow crowd, however Dadaism was anti art, not art, and ended up confusing the understanding of what art is

[Anonymous No.12475109]

>>12475084
>a million flies can't be wrong

[Anonymous No.12475235]

>>12473836
go back

to reddit

[Anonymous No.12475264]

>>12473836
>Almost as atonal music, which is unlistenable.
12 year old

[Anonymous No.12475275]

>>12475056
lol did you think I was going to take this post seriously? how about I just shit in a bucket and dump it over top your head instead

[Anonymous No.12475350]

>>12474065
Ahem
*ting ting ting*
Fuck Joyce

[Anonymous No.12475381]

>>12473909
I looked into your soul and judged ye based

[Anonymous No.12475553]

>>12474065
Low IQ post or hasn't read it.

[Anonymous No.12475596]

>>12475264
19 year old

If you're still this much of a pseud when you're in your 20s, you will never grow out of it

[Anonymous No.12475810]

>They war loving, they love laughing, they laugh weeping, they weep smelling, they smell smiling, they smile hating, they hate thinking, they think feeling, they feel tempting, they tempt daring, they dare waiting, they wait taking, they take thanking, they thank seeking, as born for lorn in lore of love to live and wive by wile and rile by rule of ruse 'reathed rose and hose hol'd home, yeth cometh elope year, coach and four, Sweet Peck-at-my-Heart picks one man more.

[Anonymous No.12475981]

>>12474574
Shiiiiieeet

[Anonymous No.12476171]

>>12473836

>unreadable

We'll see tomorrow
>>12442878

[Anonymous No.12476185]

>>12473961

>liberal lefties agenda
I swear americans are the most committed people I have ever seen playing the left v. right MMORPG

[Anonymous No.12476212]

>>12473836
>Atonal music is unlistenable

[Anonymous No.12476246]

>>12474258

I am not the person you are referring to, but I have answered to you and the previous thread. You know, I was baffled by how people on /lit/ can bully you for reading books they dislike or for not knowing your Greeks, and how everything you say is exposed to endless criticism, in most cases destructive and toxic, but to this point I have had the deepest admiration for one thing: nobody ever bullies you over typos or your "command of the English language". They will call you a nigger or a faggot for not understanding Kant and Plato, but I have literally never seen anyone here before you being a grammar Nazi or making fun of other people use of language (except in the /crit/ threads, which are meant for that) because despite the fact that almost no person of african heritage is respected, here, people still have the decency to understand that not everyone is a native English speaker. As soon as you do that kind of criticism I cringe to the point of being stuck in a loop flashbacks of high school facebook debate from the year 2009-2011 for several hours. You, sir, are not a faggot or a nigger: you are a redditor and don't belong here. I hope to never meet your sorry, superficial, monodimensional being anywhere on this site and I reiterate my invitation from last time by using this beautiful italian portmanteau: pijatelanterculo.

[Anonymous No.12476264]

at first i thought this was a parody of joyce but it turns this is actually the text of FW.
What a load of garbage, anyone who reads this is wasting his time and is an enculé de limace pourrite

[Anonymous No.12476306]

I can honestly see how someone who doesn't see the beauty in atonal music wouldn't be able to see the beauty in Finn Wake

[Anonymous No.12476311]

>>12473836
>completely devoid of aesthetic value
>is actually the most aesthetic book ever written
You need to go back. You very clearly don't belong in any discussion about literature

[Anonymous No.12476337]

>>12474527
>>You know, I wouldn't mind FW being an incomprehensible gibberish if it at least had some aesthetic or musical value

>My great blue bedroom, the air so quiet, scarce a cloud. In peace and silence. I could have stayed up there for always only. It's something fails us. First we feel. Then we fall. And let her rain now if she likes. Gently or strongly as she likes. Anyway let her rain for my time is come. I done me best when I was let. Thinking always if I go all goes. A hundred cares, a tithe of troubles and is there one who understands me? One in a thousand of years of the nights? All me life I have been lived among them but now they are becoming lothed to me. And I am lothing their little warm tricks. And lothing their mean cosy turns. And all the greedy gushes out through their small souls. And all the lazy leaks down over their brash bodies.

Imagine both not having read the book and having no idea what you're talking about, yet still having an opinion

[Anonymous No.12476375]

>>12473809
>>12473836
I think its more comparable to Trout Mask Replica than atonal music (Finns wake has much more artistic merit though). By breaking free of all typical musical pattens TMR shows what is possible when unbounded creativity is freed from convention. Are large portions of it utterly incomprehensible shit? Yes but that is because it values experimentation over safely sticking to old patterns. Without the shit parts you wouldn't have the moments of brilliance that shine through. Sometimes you need to break all of the rules to understand the ways in which they are holding us back.

[Anonymous No.12476407]

It is the only novel that has made me openly weep because of its beauty. I seriously read the closing pages with tears in my eyes.

[Anonymous No.12476443]

>>12474258
Riddled with beauty, beset by carefully designed word plays, afflicted with genius, engorged with wit, besieged by the sublime and buckling under lofty aspirations

[Anonymous No.12476452]

>>12473809
Ive seen the twitter accounts of Joyce fags and let me tell you folks these people are shameful, they lose, they hate to do anything for themselves, we can’t have this on the path to logos, this is not an acceptable subculture

[Anonymous No.12477106]

>>12476407
Were you also euphoric whilst you wept? Did you cry out an ironic Eloi sabachtani?

[Anonymous No.12477317]

>>12476407
Same. It hit me pretty hard when I realized what the final sentence, and its looping back to the first, meant. It's kinda sad that talking about, and appreciating, the profound beauty of this book gets you labeled as a pseud

[Anonymous No.12478943]

>>12477317
>>12476407

I'm 70 pages in for now and I'm loving it. I like the interplay of different stories/timelines, and how they reverberate into each other

[Anonymous No.12479058]

>>12474034

as said above, the closest to FW in terms of recorded music, must be Trout Mask Replica. Or atonal music. Or a mobile recorded audio of a crackhead screaming at aliens.