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/lit/ - Literature

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12223416 No.12223416 [Reply] [Original]

What

>> No.12223418

>>12223416
Garbage.

>> No.12223425
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12223425

>>12223416
*bemused laughter*

>> No.12223444

>>12223425
Hon. Based Whitehead Poster, will you ever say something interesting about Whitehead?

>> No.12223473

>>12223425
t. Homoswzual

>> No.12223478

>>12223425
explain his theories

>> No.12223484

>>12223416
when are we going to stop letting philosophers weigh in on mental health.
We now understand schizophrenia, depression, anxiety, etc. all more then we ever have before. Ideologues need to stop using prevalence of suicide, addiction, schizophrenia to make their points because it's mostly genetic and physical.
ugh
>Inb4 he wasn't using the technical definition of schizophrenic but rather using it in the same way another old philosopher used it
Yeah I don't care

>> No.12223492

>>12223484
the beginning of wisdom is to call things by their proper name, the poor schizophrenics are only suicidal because they are told they are too creative

>> No.12223513

>>12223416
rebel against hegel and become a yuppie artist

>> No.12223542

>>12223484
t. Just listen to peterson

>> No.12223548

>>12223492
they're suicidal because the voices in the radio static tell them to kill themselves and they have little sense of reality

>> No.12223553

>>12223542
I do not like jordan peterson.

>> No.12223569

>>12223416
The oedipus complex doesn't real and is not a good jumping off point for any system of analysis, which is not a good way to answer questions or solve problems or understand anything.
It's just academic wastoids spinning wheels.
Get this off my board.

>> No.12223575

>>12223548
Reality has to be an external disruptive critical factor.

>> No.12223578

>>12223575
fuck offfffff omgg

>> No.12223670
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12223670

>>12223418
>>12223484
>>12223569
>I don't agree with something someone else siad so no one should discuss it.

>>12223578
Spotted the underage poster

>> No.12223685

>>12223484
>suicide genetic
Now I've heard it all

>> No.12223694

>>12223670
Said it was garbage period.

>> No.12223696

>>12223685
I'd tell you to KYS but I know it doesn't work that way (sadly).

>> No.12223796

>>12223569
The oedipus complex is at play in every family whether you like it or not, pleb

>> No.12223814

>>12223796
you wish faggot

>> No.12223826
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12223826

>>12223484
You do realize that D&G were basically against psychoanalysis and its approach to mental illness and the psyche in general, right? The only reason AO is so convoluted is because they were trying to kiss Lacan's ass to get him on their side with their convoluted reconciliatory logic. They admitted this themselves in interviews later. If you're the type to tell someone suffering from mental illness that it's genetic so they might as well give up, you missed the point in the opposite direction.

>> No.12223881

>>12223826
I have a friend who where cured from Schizophrenia by a Lacanian Freudian psychoanalyst

>> No.12223901

>>12223484
>it's mostly genetic and physical
depression? most depression is just due to an addiction to technology, lack of connection with nature, a craving of human connection and sense of belonging to a community while living in an ugly consumerist metropolis filled with people foreign to your own kind. Jewish capitalism is the cause of depression and suicide.

>> No.12223924

>>12223484
I unironically believe that the bullshit Kant spout out is to blame for Schizophrenia. It's a mentally contagious disease, of which the descendent thoughts reach the brains of the vulnerable by proxy and destroy it forever. Hell if even pure wrongly folded protein without envelope can act as a pathogen (prions), than it's not too far fetched to imagine that structures as complex as thoughts can act as pathogens as well. Notice that Schizophrenia didn't exist before, that the risk of infection is higher in cities than in villages and that the term "nihilist" was re-invented by Jacobi in it's current meaning to describe Kant and his bullshit. I'm not drawing this out of my ass, look it up. The greeks were right in condemning Sokrates to death, they should have fucking ripped his tongue out way sooner.

>> No.12223931

>>12223924
The point being, philosophy- the science of difference and enumeration- is a disease and we can look at the “progress” of philosophy as a viral contagion. As we all know, Philosophy begins in earnest with Plato. The central concern of the dialogues (themselves a capture mechanism whereby the “oral” tradition is contained within what would begin the expansion/contagion of the first fully standardized, internal, highly abstract, economical, phonemic/atomistic representational exogrammic model) is “what is x in and of itself?”.

This archetypal question is advanced with much rigor and is indeed the archetypal question. This question gives rise to what I call “the problem of meaning”. Meaning is a new category arising in ancient thought and meaning itself arises with its necessary (ananke) organ- the soul. This archetypal questioning can be seen as “symptomatic” of exposure to something, thus it is a problem to be solved not by advancing the cause of philosophy but by seeking a cure. The Pharmakos, Logos and the Savior are all attempts at various times answers stages to contain and or cure philosophy. As a side note, Hegel is the AIDS of philosophy. The arising of what is x for itself is the “birth of the problem of meaning”.

Debord was a voyeurs voyeur and thus a radically incomplete thinker. Trapped within the completion phase of Cartesian/Newtonian/materialist voyeurism, Debord was unable to see the sorcerous aspect of his own compulsions. In other words he didn’t go far enough, deep enough, surreal enough in his contemplations.

There is a reason why the logos and light and vision and linear time and Utopianism and industrialism and Cartesianism and voyeurism reign supreme in the west.

The pre-Socratics, the Pythagoreans, were the true 'seers'

>> No.12223938

>>12223901
>Jewish capitalism
brainlet

>> No.12223939

>>12223931
Hegel is AIDS

>> No.12223943

>>12223416
I read this entire book and didn't understand a single word of it and couldn't tell you a single thing about it

>> No.12223948

>>12223484
Guattari was a psychotherapist though

>> No.12223973

>>12223924
>>12223931
(you)

>> No.12223993

>>12223938
Thank you goy! You are truly Righteous Among the Nations!

>> No.12224000

>>12223484
>its mostly genetic and physical
and i suppose the physical doesn't pertain to or isn't in anyway shaped by contextual/environmental/social forces, you dumb fucking faggot

>> No.12224014

>>12223924
But that's literally not how schizophrenia works

>> No.12224042

>>12224000
>Yes! Your brain is just faulty, that's all, just load up on these debilitating drugs to forget what wasteland of a "community" you belong to. Yes sir just stay inside on your comfy videogames, no need to change the Way of the World my white, ermm, my downtrodden friend! Oh and yes these pills are going to cost you a fair amount but don't worry too much about it! My friend in the pharma company will be very pleased with this new arrangement, and I could really use a good vacation!
Who could be behind this?

>> No.12224047

>>12224000
yeah I guess if by physical forces you include a bonk on the head
>>12223948
He was antipsychiatry, if he was alive today he'd probably be anti neuroscience and anti brain surgery too while he's at it fucking dipshit thinks theory can replace knowledge, classic frenchy.
>>12223901
"Most depression is due to an addiction to technology, lack of connection with nature, a craving of human connection and sense of belonging to a community while living in an ugly consumerist metropolis yadda yadda yadda" I literally just said to stop making up whatever the fuck is convenient to your personal worldview to explain mental illness and you're still doing it, it comes across as really fucking stupid.
>>12223670
I'm open to discussing it. Here we are discussing it. Using critical theory to talk about medical issues is dumb. Here let me apply my marxist critique to tay sachs, it's because capitalism somehow.

Guys. We've found genetic correlates, we have neuropharmacological models which explain these illnesses and provide a paradigm through which we can treat them. We use dopamine receptor blockers or drugs that prevent it's formation in the CNS for schizophrenia because one part of the illness is an excess of dopamine, do you understand? We increase serotonin in people with depression and they kill themselves less and hate their lives less. The proof is in the pudding.
No, our understanding is not complete. Yes, some of society makes this stuff harder. But you are N E V E R going to even TOUCH a solution with any amount of abstract philosophy or crit theory. It's fun for thinking about in the same way sci fi is fun, it's speculative.
Just stop trying, go back to unscalable jerking off in fringe journals or something.
You all literally do not know what you're talking about.

>> No.12224053

>>12224042
Interesting how this train of thought always leads you to a convenient scapegoat, it's almost like it turns you into someone who is useful to the propagation of an ideology rather than is useful to you as an individual.
Like, this set of ideas actually makes you less autonomous. Like there's no "you" in you, like your responses are all pre-programmed by whoever was able to get their shitty ideas into your head first.
Kind of like those video game characters who say the same thing every time you talk to them and aren't controlled by the player. what are they called again?

>> No.12224056

>>12223924
>>12223931
Good idea for a short story I guess

>> No.12224060

>>12223924
Schizophrenia didn't previously exist in the same way gravity and radio waves didn't exist in antiquity. They didn't have a name or way of thinking about something like that.

>> No.12224064

>>12224047
t. subjectivity and desire repressing fascist

>> No.12224067

Y'all are dumb. It's easy to understand if you're 5 days deep in an amphetamine binge.

>> No.12224069

>>12223575
What do you mean by this?

>> No.12224075

>>12224064
Nah, I just take issue with this one little thing.

>> No.12224081

>>12224047
>I literally just said to stop making up whatever the fuck is convenient to your personal worldview to explain mental illness and you're still doing it, it comes across as really fucking stupid.
Are you actually dumb? So depression isn't caused at all by outside factors? What about the evolutionary imperative ingrained in our skulls about the impending doom of alienation from our tribe? You know, like how hunter gathers who were rejected from their tribes literally just died alone? Or are humans immune to evolutionary development? Literally nothing I said can be construed as some "unique worldview", these are basic tenets of human happiness. There is no Ghost in the Machine purely faulty of its own accord whose ailments aren't a result (at least in part) of my "yadda yadda" diagnosis. Stop posting. Go outside.

>> No.12224084

>>12224075
Your metaphysics are inherently fascist, whether you are aware of it or not

>> No.12224086

>>12223924
good post

>> No.12224087

>>12224047
You understand mental illness doesn't exist right? It's a social construct, and the fact we can monkey with people's brains with chemicals is irrelevant. Read Foucault you low iq shitter.

>> No.12224101

>>12224084
yeah ok whatever man, so are yours probably
>>12224087
>Mental illness is a social construct
Now I am convinced you are pretending to be retarded to rile me up, and I won't have it.
>>12224081
here comes the fucking ev psych, you people just can't stop with the meaningless unprovable bullshit. JESUS CHRIST MAN STOP IT. It's making you D U M B. Just got back from a pretty nice hike with my parents actually, thought I'd come yell at you fuckers.

>> No.12224108

>>12224101
Yell all you like dumbo. Mental illness is a social construct. It means 'not useful to capitalism', and is used to Other. Read a book

>> No.12224120

>>12224053
Like.... like.... like okay, DFW, I get it, everyone you don't agree with is an NPC. I'd much rather be somewhat skeptical of modern society and its sources of power than have a pre-programmed cognitive dissonance every time I see the statistics on corporation ownership, journalism ownership, wealth, lobbying power... or whenever I see some Talmud reference that reveals clear designs on Jewish supremacy.... or or the actual Rabbis and Jewish intellectuals who clearly and obviously push for immigration to Europe to combat another Nazi Germany scenario, all while conveniently creating their own apartheid ethnostate in the middle east. I'm not a conspiracy wingnut and clearly there's no ultimate coalition of Jews conspiring against humanity but I can't say I'm going to turn my brain off with some knee jerk reaction of "antisemitism = bad" like some NPC. Thanks for listening to my Ted Talk.

>> No.12224129

>>12224108
I've read a fuckton of books, you read a book. You sound so amazingly stupid I'm actually surprised you made it this far, you sound like surprisingly dumb. I bet you kinda know it in your heart too.
Of course mental illness has always existed, since before the invention of capitalism or global markets or anything in your fucking stupid reading infographics you've decided to derive your whole personality from.

>> No.12224131

>>12224120
there it is! Our boy has seen some memes and spent a couple hours on pol! Hot damn. What a waste of meat.

>> No.12224166

>>12224129
>Of course mental illness has always existed,
No it hasn't. Societies have always stigmatised antisocial behaviour yes, but it was not part of a medicalized power discourse until very recently. You need to interrogate your notions of 'health' or 'sane' and other similar concepts so as to understand the ideology behind them, in particular how they are generally used against marginal groups such as women and people of colour.
You are unintelligent.

>> No.12224176

>>12224166
oh I get it, you're pretending to be one of those lefty people for whom everything is ideology including facts

>> No.12224200

>>12224176
You are pretending to be the sort of idiot who thinks contemporary discourse has always existed, no? Do you think think there were gay people in ancient Greece?

>> No.12224234

>>12224200
you are pretending to be having a debate with someone who doesn't give a shit about your terms, no? So you know some different words for things, yes? Contemporary discourse, yes? Oui oui, merci boku. Sacre bleu. I am online intellectual, I write my sentences weirdly and have no connection to modern culture, yes? This is in part due to my tiny penis, no? I happen to have read the classics as well, yes? I am quite aware that modern definitions and cultural standards do not define the whole of human reality, no? But still, if you eat the old pasta and spaghetti in the old ancient grease days you might get sick, yes? Oui? Le Croissant?
Perhaps the fundamental building blocks of an individual human were not different in ancient days, yes? No? Perhaps? Perhaps cutting of one's hand meant you had only one hand on ones body in the antient days of athens, of fine philosphers Who I Have Read Lots Of, yes?
Why, perchance, my leige, perchance, would a slave who has attempted suicide be worth less if not an understanding of their willingness to try this again and rob you of your whole slave investment, bitch? Pussy faggot? Unless there is a similar phenomenon in the roman horse and buggy days as we have today which behaves similarly and they just didn't have the same means for analyzing describing and treating it, no?
Oh Please sir Please I am so low IQ I am lowly stemfag please explain with your Enlightened philosophy, no? Why did we just invent schizophrenia and depression with the capitalism, maybe?

>> No.12224238

>>12223924
>>12223931
i dont know if this is retarded or genius but it was a fun ride!

>> No.12224256

>>12224047
claiming depression is caused by its "correlates" is like saying sexual arousal is caused by increased bloow flow to the penis

it means fucking nothing

>> No.12224265

>>12223931
hegel is aids

>> No.12224274

>>12224256
I said a bunch of stuff in the comment you replied to, you didn't exactly blow my mind here.
We correct the brain chemicals, we correct the depression. Genes related to production or reuptake of these chemicals are statistically likely to be found in people complaining of depressive symptoms.
I agree that medicalizing something doesn't magically turn it immune from culture but surely you can see how the application of a theory which yields real results defends the theory more then some unverifiable spouting of bullshit from a dead white frenchie's mouth

>> No.12224320
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12224320

>>12224274
>>12224234
That's right Morty

>> No.12224324

>>12224320
I don't watch that show, your attempt to shield yourself from having to think by characterizing anonymous people as archetypes you're preset to feel superior to is pretty fuckin sad tho.

>> No.12224354

>>12224274
You must be pretending to be stupid. Everything you said is completely irrelevant to the medicalization of mental states not useful to capitalism. Ask yourself why 'schizophrenia' is considered to be a problem, and why, and who is diagnosed with this, and you might be able to blunder your way to some intelligence here. Why is depression and alienation 'mental illness' to be treated and corrected, but not the ability to work hard and pay taxes? What makes one 'healthier' than the other?

>> No.12224359

>>12224354
Uhh, because they cause people to die? Maybe?
I know it's hard to believe because nobody would care if you died but most people have other people who give a shit about them, maybe if you weren't so fucking annoying you would too.

>> No.12224363

>>12224354
Seriously dude I kind of think you've never been around a schizophrenic person. It's really starting to sound like you have no idea what you're talking about if you have no concept of why schizophrenia is bad for people.
Which actually makes sense from the position you seem like you're trying to argue.

>> No.12224365

>>12224359
>Uhh, because they cause people to die? Maybe?
And why is that? Keep pulling the thread anon, keep asking the questions, you are almost there. You will feel so great when you finally work it out.

>> No.12224371

>>12224363
>why schizophrenia is bad for people.
It's not, it just we live in a society and culture that stigmatises and Others those deemed 'mentally ill'

>> No.12224378

>>12224047
i agree with the general thrust of your post but please go back you moralizing know-nothing pretentious pseud. Nothing gayer than champions of science who don’t have any experience or knowledge in the fields they’re lauding
>durr hurr dopamine is the cause of schizophrenia
>proof is in the pudding
faggot retard

>> No.12224396

>>12224365
>>12224371
They kill themselves because the voices they hear in the radio static tell them to, or because they think that they need to get the chip out of their head that's controlling their thoughts so they go at it with a razor, or maybe it's an accident and they bleed out after kicking their feet through a glass window.
A few points I want to make clear:
>YOU ARE SO FUCKING DUMB.
>YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT MENTAL ILLNESS
>YOU HAVE A ROMANTICIZED VERSION OF IT IN YOUR HEAD YOU FUCKING CRAFT YOUR WORLDVIEW AROUND
>MENTAL ILLNESS HAS ALWAYS BEEN A CAUSE OF HUMAN MISERY
>NOT LISTENING TO IDIOTS LIKE DELEUZE AND BEGINNING TO LISTEN TO SMART PEOPLE HAS HELPED US TREAT IT
>THUS DECREASING HUMAN MISERY
>YOUR DIPSHIT IDEAS HAVE NO RELEVANCE IN THE WORLD
>YES THEY ARE USELESS TO CAPITALISM
> THEY ARE ALSO USELESS TO YOU, ME AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT COULD EVER EXIST OR WILL EVER EXIST
I hope you get schizophrenia as some kind of karma for being this self indulgent and soft minded.

>> No.12224401

>>12224378
just cause you could never hang in genuinely rigorous fields doesn't mean you need to be so angry about it.

>> No.12224412

>>12224378
I didn't fucking imply that dopamine was the sole cause of schizophrenia, also. My whole argument is that it's material, it sure as fuck isn't any vague crit theory bullshit.

>> No.12224561

>>12224042
>its not me, its everyone else who's crazy

>> No.12224755

>>12224396
How do you explain people with schizophrenia who don't suffer from deleterious effects because of the way their society constructs the illness?

>> No.12224793

>>12223416
Basically, everything your parents told you was something a dead king made up to get you to give him your shit that was repackaged and sold to your parents in a slightly altered but ultimately meaningless form form; the whole point of society to try and constantly fill the inadequacy your parents instilled into you by proxy of their own inadequacy by consuming the equal dead structures they failed to understand so that all desires can be captured in a social machine -- capitalism -- that converts all meaning into a shifting network of free-floating values that ranks every source of the feeling of meaning according to how well it feeds back into the machine -- Jesus makes good consumers. Deleuze recommends: stop investing into god, rip god to pieces and see what new things you create -- choose the intensity of becoming over stasis of being as a form of revolution.

>> No.12224803

>>12224755
>people with schizophrenia
>who don't suffer from deleterious effecttts

Implying such a society exists and if it does, it is essentially due to poor-oversight or anarchy.

>> No.12224911

THE STORY GOES LIKE THIS

>> No.12224934

>>12223569
Read more Lacan. The Oedipus Complex is definitely a thing.
People just don't like to admit it because it hurts their feelings.

>> No.12224938

>>12224396
keep spooked my property

>> No.12224967

>>12224934
>you just don't believe in this concept because you haven't gone out of your way to have it explained generally enough to apply to literally any situation

Yeah no shit