Which book turned you away from socialism/communism?

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Anonymous Fri Dec 7 04:51:31 2018 No.12194549 [Reply] [Original]

Which book turned you away from socialism/communism?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 05:03:16 2018 No.12194568 jordan peterson xD

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 05:04:11 2018 No.12194570 The more books I read the closer I get towards anarchism

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 05:14:44 2018 No.12194586 >>12194549 you don't need books, just an IQ of more than 80.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 05:27:17 2018 No.12194610 harry potter

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 05:33:57 2018 No.12194630 >>12194549 I was never a communist because I'm not a fucking loser in life that has to leech off others.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 06:22:00 2018 No.12194696 >>12194630 t. loser in life that has to leech of others

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 07:48:39 2018 No.12194850 >>12194549 When I was a teen I read Thomas Sowell and was a staunch capitalist. But the older I get, the more I work, the closer I drift towards socialism.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 07:51:20 2018 No.12194855 Communism? The Road to Serfdom Haven’t been turned off socialism yet though

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 07:55:00 2018 No.12194864 Virgin Communism Normie Capitalism Chad Mercantilism

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 08:24:29 2018 No.12194919 >>12194549 Mein Kampf

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 08:54:21 2018 No.12195005
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>>12194549
Johan Norberg's "In Defence of Global Capitalism". Read it in my native language for lulz when I was teenager after marinading my brain with Naomi Klein, Noam Chomsky, America Vera-Zavala and Michael Moore for a few years. "No way someone could actually defend global capitalism LOL let's loan this and laugh at it". Elegant, terse, to the point and utterly devastating rebuke of socialist/commie/anarchist alter-globalisation movement of 00's.

This is best read right after reading No Logo, then alongside No Logo. Norberg uses comparative, quantitative and qualitative analysis while Klein uses emotional appeal and anecdotal cases, then fit those into her narrative. This book opened my eyes to how stupid, deceitful, dishonest and shallow lefties arguments really are. I haven't seen a single redeeming argument from the left to this day. It's always the same drivel based on dishonest emotional manipulation. Gradually I became to hate them.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 08:54:58 2018 No.12195007 My first pay stub.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 08:56:35 2018 No.12195013 >>12194549 The more I read, the more I'm pro-communism. Plato is basically Stalin.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 09:01:38 2018 No.12195026 >>12194549 Severe brain damage, watching Steven Crowder on Youtube and reading TD.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 09:04:28 2018 No.12195035 >>12194570 anarchism is for braindead teens, you should be going in the opposite direction

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 09:04:53 2018 No.12195038 >>12195013 Why not read some history instead? That also cures people from communism and socialism. It's easy to become moron if you only read moronic books. Step out of your self-imposed mental asylum for a few months.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 09:06:26 2018 No.12195043 >>12195007 when you realised your boss deserved your labour value

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 09:06:33 2018 No.12195044 >>12195038 How about you an hero, American

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 09:09:30 2018 No.12195058 >>12194549 Took several books, the one in your image is awesome. Thomas Sowell has a nice way of articulating complex ideas. He'll also make you feel like a retard if you have shit ideas of how the economy is supposed to work. Good humbling read.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 09:21:20 2018 No.12195102 >>12195044 Why wouldn't you want to learn from history? Because it steps on your ideological sensitivities and you know it? So you remain willingly ignorant. That's even worse than being an utter moron.

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 12:06:50 2018 No.12195801
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This one is pretty good. It covers everything from the knowledge problem, to how socialism destroys the environment, ruins healthcare, and hobbles innovation. It even has something to say about the nouveau socialist "mixed economy" advocates.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 12:41:48 2018 No.12195962 File: 19 KB, 220x350, road to serfdom.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] This plus an undergrad degree in History

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 13:38:13 2018 No.12196177 >>12195102 wow, that sounds really interesting. mind telling me more about that time marx personally strangled eleventy gorillion ukrainian babies to death with his bare hands?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:07:48 2018 No.12196293 >>12195005 I can't imagine anything worse than global capitalism. LIterally anything would be better.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:11:25 2018 No.12196310 >>12196177 There is something very wrong with leftist mind. >>12196293 Then you should absolutely read Norberg's book to challenge that.

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:16:26 2018 No.12196329

>>12196293
>Then you should absolutely read Norberg's book to challenge that.
I don't need to read it. Global capitalism neccesitates the destruction of plurality in culutre, religion, race, language etc. The only possible outcome is modern America imposing its rot on the rest of the world. And I can't imagine anything worse than that.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:17:49 2018 No.12196331 >>12194549 What is socialism, and what is capitalism?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:19:25 2018 No.12196336 >>12196329 Don't you feel embarrassed thinking like this?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:20:19 2018 No.12196338 >>12196336 You're going to have to be a bit more specific anon

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:21:06 2018 No.12196342 >>12194855 isn't the road to serfdom a warning against the centralised keynesian welfare states that capital was generating? communism involves stateless society

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:21:12 2018 No.12196343 I never required a lot of turning away from communism. I went through a brief spell of being interested in it in my late teens which faded. But I found Camus' The Rebel matched up nicely with my own criticisms of communism.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:21:12 2018 No.12196344 >>12194549 I believe in autonomous forms of government. If a society deems convenient literally fucking anything then they can do it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:21:17 2018 No.12196345 >>12195005 Can you give some examples of the arguments that changed your mind before I read it?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:22:44 2018 No.12196351 >>12196338 Your post is incredibly cliche. It's the same shit you see people spewing on 4chan and twitter all the time. Don't you feel bad being this unoriginal?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:23:35 2018 No.12196360 >>12196336 Sure, he should be embarrassed for not reducing the entire human experience down to commerce--the only thing that really matters in the end. Right, my fellow goyim?

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:24:17 2018 No.12196364

>>12194549
Nothing. I'm well-versed in economics as well before anyone starts memeing me, you're a 120 iq brainlet if you think understanding how the capitalist economy functions "refutes" socialism, let alone absolves capitalism of its numerous atrocities. But it doesn't matter, you guys won and now the biosphere is going to collapse as the capitalists continue to extract every last drop of profit from everything that was once good and beautiful in this world. Your stupidity and the retardation of the marxist-leninists has doomed us. I hope you're happy.

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:25:05 2018 No.12196369

>>12195005
>Naomi Klein, Noam Chomsky, America Vera-Zavala and Michael Moore
christ, no surprise you were so easily swayed. hint: little good leftism has ever come out of north america

>>12195801
>to how socialism destroys the environment
you're thinking of capitalism, with its endless drive to accumulate, produce, and grow

>>12195801
>nouveau socialist "mixed economy" advocates
mixed economy in practice means a slightly softened capitalism

>>12196331
not many people itt know this, my friend

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:25:06 2018 No.12196370 >>12196351 It's also pretty cliche to suggest that the Earth is round, that doesn't make it wrong. Your idea that "originality" is of any worth whatsoever shows how utterly stupid you are to be honest senpai.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:27:30 2018 No.12196383 >>12196369 >christ, no surprise you were so easily swayed. hint: little good leftism has ever come out of north america Do you have any recommendations of good leftists to read?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:29:09 2018 No.12196391 >>12196383 Georges Sorel is breddy gud

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:31:15 2018 No.12196399 >>12196342 Yes but you have to remember the average political discussion on this board is composed primarily of /pol/ retards who think that hillary clinton is a communist

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:31:57 2018 No.12196401 File: 647 KB, 2027x2461, 1516613911768(2).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:36:19 2018 No.12196417 File: 33 KB, 334x499, 51Q-oWK9oSL._SX332_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] I still like libsocs though. Just barely.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:37:49 2018 No.12196421 >>12196399 It's more generally filled with underage strawmanning fsvgots from Reddit, tumble, and resetera who keep forgetting to lie about their age everywhere blaming the containment board for anytime they come across a right wing opinion in 4chan

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:38:49 2018 No.12196427 >>12196383 Lucien Van der Welt, Rudolph Rocker, and Bookchin are all good reads

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:39:41 2018 No.12196430 >>12196421 you have to go back

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:40:22 2018 No.12196431 >>12196369 >Little good leftists have come from America That's just totally false though. Anyone who believes this is a moron of the highest calibre

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:40:38 2018 No.12196433 >>12196430 >implying this is a lefty board oh i am laffin

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:42:16 2018 No.12196439 >>12194549 Marx's capital by itslef

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:42:19 2018 No.12196440

>>12196430
Been here since 09 m8, before you newfags complaining about muh /pol/ boogeyman it was muh /b/ boogeyman. Just shut the fuck up and read the FAQ. There are no board identities beyond shitposting and cancerous tripfagging

You have no idea how stupid you are when you claim that an entire board is monolithic on an anonymous chan based forum you absolute monkey

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:43:14 2018 No.12196445 File: 6 KB, 205x246, 1544127592022.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12195035 >you should be going in the opposite direction

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:44:10 2018 No.12196448 >>12194549 >i love waging

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:44:22 2018 No.12196450 File: 53 KB, 403x448, i3srjwdd5f201.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12196445 >thinking stateless communism is even remotely possibe

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:45:18 2018 No.12196453 >>12196448 Better than starving desu

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:45:20 2018 No.12196454 >>12196448 >waste all your time on the coputer Do you even do something productive beyond perpetuate yourself and your basics incstints?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:48:48 2018 No.12196466 >>12194549 Getting a job and buying property did it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:49:05 2018 No.12196467 Basic knowledge of history turned me off of Communism, but socialism I remain lukewarm on. While I do not have strong faith in its viability, the goal of improving the life of the many via the proper distribution of existing resources is a noble one.

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:51:44 2018 No.12196476

>>12196383
Personally I like my leftism to be reasonably relevant to modern western capitalism. Please understand that this list will betray my biases.
In the (mostly) political/social sphere:
Gramsci
Ralph Miliband
Poulantzas
Laclau + Mouffe
in (mostly) economics:
David Harvey
Wolfgang Streeck
Paul Mason

Good regular publications are the new left review, the socialist register, and capital and class.

>>12196417
>crossman
rough

>>12196431
I said north america, plenty has come from south america. north has some exceptions, feel free to list a few if you'd care to

>>12196450
communism is stateless, please read its opening paragraph on wikipedia.

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:52:19 2018 No.12196478
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There is no hope. Just look at this thread. Everyone in this thread is a complete mongoloid and yet also somehow more intelligent than 95% of the population. Meaningful change will never occur and all you swine will keep shitposting with glee about how the status quo is actually good even as the environment collapses and the last shreds of authentic human life are commodified and sold back to the oblivious normies, which you'll laugh at and mock and proclaim your superiority to, all while consuming the same shit just marketed differently. What a wretched world.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:54:25 2018 No.12196489 >>12196478 Attitudes like yours are why the world is not yet a good place.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:54:54 2018 No.12196490 >>12196476 >communism is stateless, please read its opening paragraph on wikipedia. Yes I know that, you fucking autist. I was mocking the idea of statelessness

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:54:57 2018 No.12196491 >>12196489 Justify your statement.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:56:25 2018 No.12196502 File: 74 KB, 880x698, Venezuela-Cuba Plan.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12196478 You obviously need pic related.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:57:32 2018 No.12196513 >>12196489 absolutely not true, the world is a bad place because it's full of shitheads. that anon's pessimism is wellfounded and to call it the source of the world's problems is completely retarded

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 14:58:32 2018 No.12196516

>>12196491
Giving up on any possibility of the world becoming a better place prevents you from causing any positive change. This attitude, when spread over large groups of people, causes perpetual misery as people lament the poor state of the world while crying about how there is no hope to improve. You, individually, are not the problem. You are just one small part of it.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:00:15 2018 No.12196525 >>12196513 I'll agree that claiming it is the sole cause is false, that was hyperbole on my part. However, I still argue that it is a contributing factor. See >>12196516

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:01:37 2018 No.12196530

>>12196489
Fuck off. We are literally mere DECADES away from environmental catastrophe and the vast majority of people are still REEEEEEing about how communism is bad and we need to uphold capitalism. It is absolutely inconceivable that even the rich and technologically advanced west can become carbon neutral in that timeframe, let alone the rest of the world. We're so fucked it's not even funny.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:02:47 2018 No.12196535 >>12196530 do you seriously think communism is viable and would even help the problem? also how do you know we're decades from environmental catastrophe?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:05:55 2018 No.12196545 >>12196454 dont you have to get back to making someone else rich?

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:12:00 2018 No.12196561

>>12196476
Bookchin, Chomsky, Daniel De Leon, a lot of the Beatniks, Albert and Lucy Parsons. The United States was a major contributors to both anarchistic and syndicalist movements internationally. Galleani moved here for a reason

That's not insignificant at all

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:12:24 2018 No.12196566 >>12194549 Atlas shrugged >can't believe I'm the 1st one to mention it

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:13:03 2018 No.12196569

>>12196535
>do you seriously think communism is viable and would even help the problem?
I'm not a communist and I'm not going to devolve this into a fight about leftist ideologies. The fact of the matter is that the global economy is killing the earth. I care about stopping that, use whatever system you want to accomplish it.
>also how do you know we're decades from environmental catastrophe?
It's the scientific consensus. The IPCC report is good and everyone should read it
https://www.ipcc.ch/sr15/

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:13:18 2018 No.12196571 >>12196566 Terrible book.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:14:40 2018 No.12196578 >>12196571 Extremely underated for the most retarded reasons imaginable , and i despise Ayn Rand

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:20:10 2018 No.12196590

>>12196329
You absolutely need to read it precisely because you are stuck on leftist simpleton mindset of "all good things = socialism, all bad things = capitalism".

>>12196345
Global capitalism has drastically reduced not only absolute poverty (to such extent that definition of it has been ramped upwards twice yet it's still way lower than before), but also income rift between first, second and third world. Global GDP share of first world was much higher in 80's than is now. All this is evident now (China's special economic zones and India's opening since 90's as prime go-to pointers), but it wasn't evident then. Klein & other leftist mudminds were and are still stuck on muh exploitation muh sweatshops, never looking at larger picture, like I said, just appeal to emotion and anecdotes shoved to fit their pre-existing narrative.

>>12196369
>christ, no surprise you were so easily swayed. hint: little good leftism has ever come out of north america
All leftist arguments with some connection to real world are like what I described, or highly theoretical philosophical exercises with no connection to reality. I have no interest in latter since results of its applications have been devastating without a single exception, and former type is total horse shit to anyone who is willing to listen to arguments from other side which are way more solid. There is no value whatsoever to any leftist thought.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:22:35 2018 No.12196601 Reality. T. Venezuelan.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:23:29 2018 No.12196604 >>12196601 You didn't get communism/socialism though. Just some extreme welfare state run by crazy shitskins like chavez.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:24:18 2018 No.12196608 >>12196604 that happens every time self-proclaimed commies get ahold of a country

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:24:36 2018 No.12196610 >>12196604 In other words, socialism.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:26:08 2018 No.12196614 File: 1.23 MB, 800x667, 1479926870319.gif [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12196604

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:30:59 2018 No.12196631 File: 106 KB, 933x699, d2c01b51-a723-475f-b462-100075eebfa8.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Yikes.

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:31:11 2018 No.12196633

>>12196590
>you are stuck on leftist simpleton mindset of "all good things = socialism, all bad things = capitalism".
I'm neither a socialist nor a capitalist. My whole worldview is a rejection of the materialistic box that both socialism and capitalism are stuck in. Some of us think there is more to the world than production of good and generation of capital

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:31:38 2018 No.12196634 >>12194549 Kek hust kek

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:32:59 2018 No.12196637 >>12196569 "A group of people agree, therefore it's true."

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:33:33 2018 No.12196638

>>12196604

>Chávez, a declared marxist.
>Absolute control of the economy.
>Admired the Cuban/Soviet model.
>Control of the media.
>Applied exactly the same policies that turned to shit every country in which it was a tried.
>But not a socialist.

Even though I lived 20 years under chavism, thanks for the explanation. Where did you read it?

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:37:15 2018 No.12196647

>>12196638
Do you think Venezuelas refusal to cooperate with American/ZOG foreign policy was a part of the current problem? It's funny how the few countries that are outside of America's financial influence (Syria, Iran, Venezuela) attract so many problems

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:41:16 2018 No.12196655 >>12196633 Fine. But at least get smart about that materialist part.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:42:32 2018 No.12196663 >>12194549 Max Stirner and Ayn Rand >muh ancap is a meme

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:44:25 2018 No.12196667

>>12196530
Yes, environmental catastrophe is inevitable. Nothing we do will avoid it. It is not, however, the end. Rather than mourning preemptively for a non-existent apocalypse, it would be better to focus on how people can adapt to survive the change as best we can.

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:47:52 2018 No.12196680

>>12196440
>boogeyman
Do you even understand the meaning of buzzwords you parrot? /pol/ now, just like /b/ then, is an entry point board with highest concentration of pubbie retards and underage fags. There's no "boogie-man" - it's simply the reality that both of those boards are responsible for cancer spreading elsewhere. Except /pol/ also equips it with additional baggage of schizophrenic shit and "red pills".
>oh no no no stop generalizing hashtag not all polyps
Neck yourself, triple nigger. Post-2008 always-newfags must only lurk forevermore.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:48:57 2018 No.12196690 >>12196663 It is a meme. Anarchism is always a meme.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:50:42 2018 No.12196707 File: 25 KB, 333x499, 41nuMPqALFL._SX331_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Problem of economic calculation coming through

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:52:43 2018 No.12196721 >>12196690 REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:52:51 2018 No.12196723 >>12196401 (you)

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:53:22 2018 No.12196728 >>12196590 https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/222574.In_Defense_of_Global_Capitalism The first review here by Natasha seems to btfo the book.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:54:20 2018 No.12196734 >>12196401 >alt right e-celebs which most of them haven't aported nothing of value to economics unironically kys

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:54:24 2018 No.12196735 >>12196638 >Absolute control of the economy >Admired the Cuban/Soviet model Do you know what socialism is?

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:56:17 2018 No.12196742 >>12196590 I don't think anyone needs a fucking book to tell them global poverty's gone down

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:56:28 2018 No.12196743 >>12196728 Room temperature IQ Chap Trap House fans could btfo global capitalism lmao

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 15:56:51 2018 No.12196745 >>12194549 Hegel

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:00:21 2018 No.12196759 >>12194549 The CIA turned me away from capitalism. If that system is so great why does the CIA need to destory countries to feed it?

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:03:26 2018 No.12196770

>>12196680
>pol/ now, just like /b/ then, is an entry point board with highest concentration of pubbie retards and underage fags
Except /a/, /pol/, /v/, /b/, and /tv/ have always been the most popular boards you dumb nigger. So youve been here longer than 09 but you've beeen too autistic to figure out the point of having different boards and no usernames?

Well, I guess you definitely are an oldfag then because that's some of the most intense autism possible

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:05:06 2018 No.12196773
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>>12196735
To every socialist, it always goes like this
>good things = socialism
>bad things = not socialism
Hence, because all self-proclaimed socialist experiments with proclaimed intention to build communism went to deep shit, it was never real socialism, while simultaneously they do tremendous mental gymnastics to claim countries such as Denmark that have never declared themselves socialist or even to be striving towards socialism, because lots of good things in such places. Leftism is a severe mental illness.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:06:35 2018 No.12196780 >>12196638 >absolute control of the economy kek.

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:07:49 2018 No.12196783

>>12196680
>There's no "boogie-man" - it's simply the reality that both of those boards are responsible for cancer spreading elsewhere
Newfags are going to newfag no matter how they heard of this place first and /pol/ has the same traffic as /v/ and /tv/ for multiple different reasons besides whatever faggotry you think you poser scum

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:08:57 2018 No.12196788 >>12196773 Define socialism and communism please.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:09:43 2018 No.12196789 >>12196788 Failure

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:10:08 2018 No.12196792 >>12196788 things I don't like so bad

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:13:28 2018 No.12196804 >>12196788 Socialism is the workers owning the means of production. Communism is the abolition of private property in favor of a stateless society.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:14:47 2018 No.12196806 >>12194549 human nature

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:15:30 2018 No.12196808 >>12196804 >stateless society. what did they mean by this exactly

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:17:03 2018 No.12196813 >>12196808 Quixotic utopianism , anon.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:19:32 2018 No.12196823 >>12196808 No hierarchies

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:21:06 2018 No.12196826 >>12194549 Capitalism is as equally degenerate as Communism, and Socialism is egalitarian nonsense.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:23:24 2018 No.12196835 >>12196823 Impossible and illogical

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:24:23 2018 No.12196840 >>12196808 Everyone working happily together and giving needy people what they need from all that prosperity in delusional fuckwit commie theory. Roving warlords pillaging, killing, enslaving and raping in historically proven practice.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:24:51 2018 No.12196843 >>12196835 I know but that is what the mean by statelessness

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:25:42 2018 No.12196848

>>12194549
Italian here. In high school my philosophy teacher came into class the day after elections with her left fist held high and yelled "I VOTED [COMMUNIST PARTY]"
I didn't have much political consciousness at the time (I still don't) but that made me cringe

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:27:38 2018 No.12196856 >>12196848 You have to balanceout her dumb choice by voting for CasaPound next time.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:30:30 2018 No.12196874 >>12196478 >spends his free time watching anime

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:31:38 2018 No.12196879 >>12194549 tumblr posts I became nazbol

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:32:40 2018 No.12196882 >>12196856 >CasaPound Gross, average fascists have single digit IQ I vote M5S. At least they make an effort to stay uncorrupt.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:32:52 2018 No.12196883 File: 400 KB, 363x593, 1517436553279.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12196879 based

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:35:48 2018 No.12196891 >>12196882 >M5S >pro-sodomite >weak on immigration >plebeian democracy cringe and bluepilled

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:36:48 2018 No.12196897 This is one of the most Reddit threads in /lit/ history.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:38:16 2018 No.12196908 >>12196897 buttblasted commie

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:41:24 2018 No.12196922 >>12196891 I don't like them but they're the least shitty party >>weak on immigration it's ok we have Salvini

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:41:44 2018 No.12196926 >>12196897 but there are two instances of 'nigger' itt

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 16:42:26 2018 No.12196929 >>12196897 this is one of the most /lit/ replies in reddit history

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 18:30:27 2018 No.12197449 >>12196707 This. Socialism throuroughly BTFO'd as far back at the 1920's

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 18:40:29 2018 No.12197483 >>12194850 >But the older I get, the more I work, the closer I drift towards socialism said no one

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 19:04:48 2018 No.12197600

>>12197483
I actually know one such case. Was libertarian studying STEM field, but failed to get even undergrad degree in 6 years time, dropped out and converted to far-left socialism overnight. Suddenly, after his own personal failure, society owed him.

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 20:03:29 2018 No.12197793

>>12197600
I know someone slightly similar - worked with him during high school summers, and remained friends for sometime after
>naturally gifted through public highschool - pretty right wing/capitalist at this time
>doesn't necessarily need to work hard to achieve perfect grades, excellent SAT
>full ride in CS to top 40 US university, not necessarily an amazing school, but pretty damn good for a full ride
>takes it pretty easy by his own account and mutual friends' accounts
>still achieves decent grades, but not as high as others, or as he would have liked
>post graduation summer - slightly starts to blame capitalism for failure to "reward" those with such "high quality", especially URM - stems from the fact he still doesn't have employment
>blames "the system" and slightly blames Catholicism (he was raised Catholic)
>resolves to attend grad school in AI at top 10 institution
>doesn't fully commit to academics (by own admission) - ends up switching to easier grad degree in CS
>focuses more on participating in "the arts" instead of his degree
>performs poorly, academically speaking
>squeaks by and graduates
>still can't find a job
>his fury against "the system" exacerbates throughout all his own academic mistakes
>100% socialist/commie now

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 20:53:43 2018 No.12197969 >>12195005 Ordered, got anything else? I can recommend Peter Zeihan for geopolitics.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 22:00:05 2018 No.12198209 >>12196734 >Joe Rogan, Jordan Peterson, John Oliver, Sam Harris, Richard Spencer >alt right Are you actually fucking retarded?

Anonymous Fri Dec 7 22:11:07 2018 No.12198256
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>>12197969
Not really, it's very throughout and in that sense unique and quite sufficient. Norberg's "När människan skapade världen" is also excellent and more historical take on subject... oh wait, actually, pic related is excellent and does about same job. It describes how economic interaction between human groups built current global trade network, starting from stone age, and how those who failed to participate stagnated and often disappeared in puff. University reading that reads like popsci, excellent.

I also read basic university economics textbook and actually tried to once more to see if left could persuade me by reading Stiglitz' "Price of Inequality" (could not). I actually recommend reading leftist pulp from time to time, after some basic economics, In Defense and Human Web it only serves to induce cringe.

Lately I'm interested what causes leftism in the first place beyond childish naivety (like I was when I was literally 12) and am reading into totalitarianism and history of socialism. There is something very disturbing about seemingly smart socialist people over 30, let alone boomer commies who never let go of their commie radicalism despite witnessing first-hand collapse of East-Bloc and what ruin it was in. For that, Robert Lifton's "Thought Reform and Psychology of Totalism" is very good.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 22:18:03 2018 No.12198275 >>12194549 none, my parents were communists and I lost my teenage years inside the party, by 20 I was completely sick of it all. Worst kind of manipulators and hypocrites I ever met. I did read Animal Farm though

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 23:10:01 2018 No.12198411 >>12195026 The only correct answer

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 23:34:54 2018 No.12198477 File: 20 KB, 214x320, after.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12196707 Market Socialism coming through.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 23:35:56 2018 No.12198482 >>12198275 George Orwell was a socialist and said every word he ever wrote was for socialism.

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 23:45:16 2018 No.12198516 >>12196637 Americans shouldnt be allowed to post here

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 23:50:12 2018 No.12198532 >>12196478 "it's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of capitalism" Don't bother, we are a failed species and capital will suck the life out of earth before we do something about it

>>	Anonymous Fri Dec 7 23:51:50 2018 No.12198538 >>12194549 Nothing. I'm not a retard. Anarcho-communism is the future, if we have one at all due to climate change.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 00:02:07 2018 No.12198565 >>12198516 Bold assumption

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 00:05:29 2018 No.12198577 I read the Book of Mormon and got saved

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 00:17:11 2018 No.12198608 I actually am struggling to understand how studying history could make you support capitalism and the nation state.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 00:25:31 2018 No.12198632

>>12196478
>The goal of cultural critique in the Kali-Yuga is to reinforce and substantiate the suspicion of suspicious individuals and to encourage their discreet disengagement from the irreversible death trip, the great Death March, whose increasing visibility is beginning to transform their insistent surmise into somber, casual or bemused certitude. And because what we face is not a constellation of vexing ‘problems’ but an inevitable, providential and ultimately illusory cosmic situation, which means, stated bluntly, that there is no possibility of successful ameliorative intervention, no ‘solutions’ will be proposed.
-Marty Glass, Yuga: An Anatomy of Our Fate-

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 00:53:39 2018 No.12198737 File: 24 KB, 382x379, 1523115547882.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12195005 >In Defence of Jewish International Finance >(((Norberg))) You got bluepilled

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 01:12:11 2018 No.12198813

>>12196530
I am old, anon, I read the predictions of an impending ice age, then that Manhattan would be underwater this year. Neither has happened yet. I know one thing, though, CO2 is not a pollutant, and these attempts to suppress our use of fossil fuels through things like coercive taxation (as in France) are just a means to send our Industry to China where REAL pollution, like heavy metals and SO2, pours out of factories worked by virtual slaves... But the French are resisting, and the world is watching! Interesting times, anon!
;-)

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 01:25:04 2018 No.12198856
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>>12198538
As if the climate never changed? Climate change is part of an inevitable cycle, humans cannot mitigate it, they must adapt, as they always have.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 01:31:32 2018 No.12198879 >>12196478 Be strong Anon, we can't let these Ghouls win

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 01:50:29 2018 No.12198915 >>12198608 and I'm struggling to understand if you're being serious

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 05:20:31 2018 No.12199104 >>12195962 That'll do it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 05:51:18 2018 No.12199149 >>12195005 >Norberg uses comparative, quantitative and qualitative analysis garbage in garbage out

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 05:53:25 2018 No.12199154 >>12196667 >Yes, environmental catastrophe is inevitable. No it's not >Nothing we do will avoid it. Nothing YOU do will avoid it because you're a pro-capitalist. You're incapable of stopping catastrophe the same way a bird can't read.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 05:54:52 2018 No.12199157 >>12198256 this is the average 4chan cappie, basic economics + libertarian pop econ books

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 05:56:36 2018 No.12199162 File: 6 KB, 176x286, rerum-novarum.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12194549 rejects class warfare

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 05:58:14 2018 No.12199166 >>12194549 Marx was right about so much but wrong about where the future was headed, we're going to Cyberpunk Neo-feudalism

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 06:06:36 2018 No.12199184 >>12198813 >CO2 is not a pollutant, based retard

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 06:28:27 2018 No.12199228 First grade mathematics.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 07:15:46 2018 No.12199306 >>12197483 Said me. I was serious. Renting myself to someone who makes several times what I earn despite working less is simply immoral. The company could run without him just fine.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 07:48:39 2018 No.12199384 >>12198477 Retard. The whole point of the problem of economic calculation is to show that market socialism can't work

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 07:55:52 2018 No.12199408 >>12194549 the more I read, the more of a Monarchist I become

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 07:56:03 2018 No.12199410

>>12196707
This man is amazing and I've only read 3 of his books (currently reading 4th). What a genius, and how forgotten. First time when I had the feeling of 'I wish this guy was alive to answer questions now'. Completely rewired my thinking in the sense that I had already leaned and thought the way he he thinks, but he is far more intelligent and systematic compared to my high school drop out white trash brain that was just stumbling in the dark.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 07:57:06 2018 No.12199414 >>12199306 find a better job you fucking retard

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 08:00:59 2018 No.12199427 >>12199410 >high school drop out white trash No wonder you're such an impressionable cretin

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 08:02:02 2018 No.12199432

>>12197793
>>12197600
There's nothing wrong with any of this. Society can make room for the underperforming ones (me). That it does not do so is not because of impossibility but because we think modern civil society is the only acceptable form of social organisation.

>>12199414
Cause it's that easy, fuckface.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 08:02:13 2018 No.12199433 >>12199427 I'm stupid as fuck yeah I know, I didn't understand socialism and I deserve to be gulagged when Kamala Harris gets elected.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 08:03:03 2018 No.12199435 >>12194549 i LOVE thomas sowell. real history of slavery is amazing

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 08:08:31 2018 No.12199444 >>12198608 Because every time some "Utopia" prattling simpleton gains power to implement his ideology, it inevitably turns to shit.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 08:10:22 2018 No.12199448 >>12199444 But this is a new phenomenon. And nationalism/capitalism are not the natural state of affairs preceding totalitarian ideologies. They come about at around the same time when totalitarian ideologies have such sway.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 08:17:19 2018 No.12199461 >>12194549 I’m basically a communist. Capitalism is cancer. AMA

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 08:18:30 2018 No.12199468 Have Communists even gotten over Ricardo, if not they're basically retarded capitalists. Of course immediate post-Marx commies and marxists ignored his economic foundation completely because it was rotten.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 09:04:28 2018 No.12199539 >>12194568 firsto posto besto posto

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 09:47:08 2018 No.12199654 >>12199461 >communism >2018 just go green, grandpa. the proles are lost, now we need to save the world

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 09:50:27 2018 No.12199665 >>12194549 Death only knocks sometimes, the debut novel by A. Wyatt Mann https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07L74B7Q3/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1544271710&sr=1-1&keywords=death+only+knocks+sometimes

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 09:53:02 2018 No.12199679 File: 118 KB, 1280x720, capitalism-1.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Blocks socialism's path

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 09:57:35 2018 No.12199691

>>12195005
>after marinading my brain with Naomi Klein, Noam Chomsky, America Vera-Zavala and Michael Moore for a few years. "No way someone could actually defend global capitalism LOL let's loan
Did you set out to read the weakest leftist thinkers by choice?

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 10:02:02 2018 No.12199706

>>12196638
Well that's not exactly true and if you lived there you must understand the economy had no more "absolute control" than in say the Scandinavian countries... most of the bad signs under Chavez was the really bad cronyism in the oil industry... Venezuela had a lower tax rate than in fucking America fyi

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 10:02:40 2018 No.12199710 >>12199679 >Friedrich Hayek-person who thinks hitler was marxist socialist lol

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 10:04:59 2018 No.12199717
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Marx was right about history but by spelling it out he broke it. 20th century socialism was an authoritarian failure despite the many marxists that opposed authoritarianism, and in the 21st capital has become unstoppable. The end of mankind is closer than the end of capitalism.There are no brakes on this train and we're speeding toward a fucking wall.
Eat, drink, and be merry. Nothing can be done.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 10:07:50 2018 No.12199725 >>12199710 and he prefer liberal dictatorship instead democratic government lacking liberalism

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 10:13:27 2018 No.12199740 The USSR was the highest hope for humanity and it was ruined by revisionists. True socialism exists and it's what Stalin wanted to do.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 10:17:48 2018 No.12199750 >>12194570 Glad to hear it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 10:22:32 2018 No.12199762 >>12198856 >as they always have Nah things often die out, and humans will too. There's just gonna be very little pleasantries until that final hour.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 10:40:31 2018 No.12199797 File: 54 KB, 476x175, 1540185721370.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12194570 duh imbeCile

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 10:56:14 2018 No.12199836

>>12199157
Yeah, likely, which very much implies lefties skipped basic economics entirely because they are still lefties.

Let's look at hatemail from leftists now....

>>12199149
>every type of analysis is garbage because it doesn't support my retarded ideology
the post

>>12199432
>does not do so
social security exists, maybe you want forced labour camps instead?

>>12199691
>most prominent leftist intellectuals of era were weak
at least we can agree on that

>>12198737
He's swedish.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 10:59:39 2018 No.12199847 >>12199740 I'll keep that in mind. Enjoy your forced labour to death, it's for common good, don't be bourgeois now comrade.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 11:03:47 2018 No.12199860

>>12199432
>Society can make room for underperforming ones (me)
Sounds like you may suffer from his same issue. The guy was someone naturally talented who let his gift go to waste, and then blamed others for no longer elevating him as "intelligent/gifted", instead of fixing his work ethic and temporal commitment. It is a classic example of diverting blame from yourself to others/government. Unironically, this guy, who is ~3 years older than me, redpilled me into committing myself completely in my latter undergrad years, allowing me to have the inverse trajectory of his. It got me into a pretty top tier US medical school, so I'm thankful that I was able to extrapolate something from his excuses and deflected blame. That being said, I can say one thing optimistic for you: it's never too late to change, anon. Best of luck.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 11:03:54 2018 No.12199862

>>12199836
There's little difference between forced labour in a camp and forced labour in a minimum wage job. Essentially, neither give you any reason to stay alive. Also I don't know why anyone takes Naomi Klein seriously and Michael Moore is not an intellectual.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 11:08:12 2018 No.12199877 >>12199862 Then kill yourself.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 11:08:51 2018 No.12199880 >>12199877 I might :)

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 11:09:50 2018 No.12199881 >>12199880 Good. One commie fuckwit less.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 11:10:07 2018 No.12199884 Weber and Pareto.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 11:13:11 2018 No.12199895 >>12198256 Good suggestions, thanks. I'm a recovering leftie (albeit, not socialist level) who's starting to come around to how wrong I was (only mid-20s so not so bad I guess).

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 11:21:01 2018 No.12199925
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pragmatic socialism/authoritarian centrism/sino-fascism is the most efficient system on earth and outcompeting both socialist and liberal economies.

western humanism was a break on capitalism, not a throttle.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 11:22:11 2018 No.12199930 >>12199925 tru dat

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 11:34:36 2018 No.12199964
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>>12199925
We will see how it survives the Apple Cart Man first. Trump has his boot on the neck of Huawei and Treasury itching to blow its head off. That's disregarding how utterly leveraged Chinese stocks and housing markets are (technically if USA starts killing Chinese banks we can start picking funeral songs for China)

> western humanism was a break on capitalism, not a throttle.
Western Liberalism came up with laissez faires capitalism which definitely was not a break, but I agree in the 21st and latter half of 20th century snese with you.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 11:55:31 2018 No.12200032 >>12195005 there is a reasonable goodwill review saying that the book uses a lot of cherry picked statistics. what do you think?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 12:01:23 2018 No.12200062 >>12196826 This. The next recession will make it clear how awful capitalism is for those that are not in control.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 12:03:17 2018 No.12200070 >>12199414 >implying it is possible under capitalism to be paid what you're worth shut the fuck up and die, brainlet

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 12:04:23 2018 No.12200074 >>12199925 >conflating "outcompeting" with growth >implying centralized state capitalism is "pragmatic socialism" lmao

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 12:04:36 2018 No.12200075 File: 12 KB, 183x200, 1440881473796.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12199836 Yes he's swedish, just like 20% of the population in Israel is actually Russian.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 12:06:19 2018 No.12200081

>>12200062
You mean when another government propped up fiasco explodes on the face of people holding the bags? That's more of an argument against government interference in free market context. It hurts when price, incentive and value structures which are coerced by government realign themselves.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 12:06:57 2018 No.12200084 >>12200075 Norberg is a swedish name

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 12:10:13 2018 No.12200100

>>12200070
Granted your free market, where you offer services/goods you can provide, includes division of labor + private property (which precludes you from getting revenue from tax stream, which is coercive factor introduced against free market), you'll get paid what you are worth as estimated by others who might or might not hire you.

Other interpretation leads to state coercion against employees and to >>12200081 these inefficiency effects which can lead to very destructive shocks.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 12:10:31 2018 No.12200102

>>12196502
>every single left winger is deported there
>They are not allowed to trade
right, and no consideration is made as to the carrying capacity of Cuba or Venezuela. What even is that, amiright?
Thank you for this fine example the mental retardation of capitalists. This is how you people actually think. Excellent.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 12:18:46 2018 No.12200131

Does anybody seriously defend the labor theory of value? I was under the impression that economists abandoned the idea completely but I still see people talking about not getting paid what they're worth as if it's possible to objectively determine value outside of two consensual parties agreeing to a cost. If you disagree then please define the labor theory of value and explain why i should believe it. If you can't do this then you should know that you're talking nonsense.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 12:19:08 2018 No.12200133 >>12200081 >not true capitalism

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 12:21:52 2018 No.12200140

>>12200131
I have meetings with bank board of directors and they believe in it.

>>12200133
It is not a true or not true capitalism what's the issue. Once you have free markets with division of labor and private property, you have true capitalism, but introducing government coercion to some markets (ie. employment or banking) puts up dangerous disruptive signals to information with in it that screw up with the individuals making decision in there.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 12:24:06 2018 No.12200147 >>12200133 Yes, a government going "hands on" is not the same thing as "hands off" economics. You types like to repeat this phrase because you've heard it so much in reference to communism and its defenders but it really doesn't apply.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 12:26:25 2018 No.12200151

>>12200081
>government propped up fiasco
I hope you realize that the wealthy and the banks profit from this all the time. When you're rich it is very easy to abuse a system that you can influence with your money. The government is owned by the rich, it isn't the other way around. The sugar industry pushed the message that fat is bad and sugar is fine and the government accepted their bribes. They then proceeded to spread the anti-fat meme which is still believed today. Also, in 2008, don't you know that the banks knew that the government would bail them out? Now if we didn't have a government we would have a pound of sugar in every meal that we eat, we would all drive the least efficient cars and we would have been slaughtered by 2008. Also, the meme spread by the wealthy is UBI because they know that the population will get replaced by robots very soon and they don't want to go out like the French monarchy. This is just the beginning of Neo-serfdom. The rich and the government are at fault. One for creating the problems and the other for allowing them to happen.

Would you argue that the rich don't deserve to be taxed more? There is a difference between equality and equity.

>>12200084
It is, sorry. Anything ending in berg is sudpicious though.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 12:33:56 2018 No.12200178
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>>12200151
> don't you know that the banks knew that the government would bail them out?
Banks have known they will be bailed out since around 18th century when governments around Europe came against free banking.
> Would you argue that the rich don't deserve to be taxed more?
'deserve' is not in economic vocabulary, as far as laws and contracting goes, as per age old pacta sunt servanda, nobody without their explicit consent should be taxed at all and once you are working here, you realize how stupid idea of taxes is in general; and all that gibberish about Rosseua/Locke/Hobbes implicit social contract theory is hogwash gnosticism.

I'm obviously Moldbuggian if you have trouble locating where I'm coming from, and to clear any confusion. Let Bezos buy USA and make it great again.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 12:55:50 2018 No.12200248 >>12200151 >Anything ending in berg is sudpicious though. Yeah, if you're retarded.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:01:50 2018 No.12200269 >>12198209 Are you?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:06:21 2018 No.12200279 >>12196655 this. socialists are the antinaturalists who refuse to elevate themselves beyond our materialistic shackles. technology is the breaking of the chains of materialism.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:06:42 2018 No.12200281 >>12196638 >posts on a mongolian yak exchange forum >comparisons to Castro inb4 Miami Herald contributor with dual citizenship

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:12:11 2018 No.12200298 File: 38 KB, 645x729, 1515545901749.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12196369 >socialism is bad >no you're thinking of capitalism XD rekt

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:24:37 2018 No.12200341

>>12200178
Not who you're responding to but banking institutions are structurally always teetering on the edge of bankruptcy and they merged interests with states by underwriting their bonds LONG before the 18th century. Political economy emerged as a branch of moral philosophy and offered an "intellectual" solution to who deserves what.
Instead of reading books on law you should read about the real historical process in how plots of land came into the possession of their initial owners... you'll realize the privilege to own anything wasn't just metaphysical but was more pure appropriation, the legitimization comes later. A good book on this is: "Land Title Origins: A Tale of Force and Fraud":
https://books.google.ca/books?id=tzk0kzg9LioC&lpg=PP1&pg=PR15#v=onepage&q&f=false

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:27:59 2018 No.12200352 >>12200341 Nice. If someone is still a conservative free marketeer, but has an inkling of historical awareness, especially if one is struggling to make a living, then it is better to send them to gulags.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:28:04 2018 No.12200353 >>12196633 Based, I agree completely

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:30:15 2018 No.12200362

>>12200341
You confuse what I said; I merely pointed out end of free banking in 18th Century Europe.

> Political economy emerged as a branch of moral philosophy and offered an "intellectual" solution to who deserves what.
It's baked in your own productivity. Any distribution is coercion unless it's charity by the individual.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:31:29 2018 No.12200367 >>12200362 > charity or contracted*

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:32:46 2018 No.12200372 >>12200362 >no coercion is justifiable

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:34:11 2018 No.12200374 >>12200372 I didn't weigh on the moralities of it. I pointed out what it is: without consent.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:35:39 2018 No.12200381 >>12199710 Source? I know he believed that hitler was a socialist (which he was) but I was unaware of the marxist part

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:37:03 2018 No.12200386 >>12200381 > Hitler was a socialist. Idiotic National Review boomerism that focuses way too much on particular government policy instead of the larger context. He was far right as far right can be in '33 and in '18.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:40:10 2018 No.12200399

>>12200362
>You confuse what I said; I merely pointed out end of free banking in 18th Century Europe.
Well you're wrong since free banking existed in many places in the 19th century.

>It's baked in your own productivity. Any distribution is coercion unless it's charity by the individual.
Claiming distribution is a factor of "productivity" is convenient and is more of a pre-scientific moral statement. The grand majority of distribution isn't determined by individuals but corporate boards of directors and governmental policy... charity by any individual is hardly a factor in the grand scheme of things.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:40:49 2018 No.12200401 >>12199710 Source? I'm aware that he thought hitler was a socialist (which he was) but i was unaware of the marxist part

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:42:21 2018 No.12200406 >>12200401 Ignore this, phoneposting and my internet is shit

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:46:16 2018 No.12200417 >>12200386 >Still using the left/right false dichotomy Economically he was a socialist. There's no denying that he was also a collectivist, which is far from free market individualism. Where does Hayek say he was a marxist though?

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:47:30 2018 No.12200422

>>12200386
Yes, Hitler was of the right. He was also a socialist. Over half the German economy was directly controlled by the government which is more than Venezuela today. The other half of the economy was controlled indirectly through government granted monopoly rights. Read the Wages of Destruction or literally any other study on the German economy.

The only people I've seen deny this have no idea what socialism is or confuse it with Marxism, as if socialism didn't exist before Marx. They're fucking idiots.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:48:37 2018 No.12200423

>>12200032
Of course they are cherrypicked, he is making a strong case in just 255 pocket book pages + 13 pages of references. I'm all ears if your "reasonable goodwill review" manages to pick out even one that is blatantly false. It's very easy to shout that something is incomplete presentation of reality when everything is incomplete presentation of reality.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:51:28 2018 No.12200431 >>12200032 All statistics are cherry picked.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:54:13 2018 No.12200442

>>12200102
According to alter-globalisation movement, it was global trade, multinational corporations and organisations such as OECD and World Bank loans that were to blame for Argentina's bancrupcy, not Argentina's retarded quasi-socialist economical policy. It's obvious you must not participate in such a monstrous oppressive system. It's for your own good, from your own mouths, who am I to judge your convictions.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:54:22 2018 No.12200444

>>12200422
socialism in context of Marxism has very different meaning from just "objective" state level collective policies which must be taken good care of not to conflate though.

I assumed you came from the retarded Boom Nat school which says (by saying Hitler was a socialist) that Hitler was a lefty, which just makes all sorts of garbled nonsense of the NG history - sorry if I got this wrong.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:54:40 2018 No.12200446 >>12200431 >>12200423 So the book isnt better than an appeal to emotions or anecdotal evidence? Cool.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:57:55 2018 No.12200454

>>12200151
>The sugar industry pushed the message that fat is bad and sugar is fine and the government accepted their bribes.
> Now if we didn't have a government we would have a pound of sugar in every meal that we eat
Do you suffer from schitzophrenia?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 13:59:09 2018 No.12200457 >>12200454 he thinks government is god, he is clearly protestant and/or communist.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:00:11 2018 No.12200462 >>12200446 My note was about general nature of statistics. You cherry pick indicators that don't measure the thing it says measures and gibba gabbo goo booga beega loo your argument.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:00:26 2018 No.12200464 >>12200446 There is enormous difference between saying oh look some poor kid is sewing shoes and pointing out causation between rise of millions from absolutely poverty and free market policies.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:03:08 2018 No.12200476
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>>12200442
If investors are so retarded they can't preform assessments to see that "quasi-socialist economical policy" are bad then they should lose everything... if you actually want to understand the actual '''actors''' behind the 80s debt crises in mexico, turkey, poland, argentenia read R.T. Naylor's Hot Money and the Politics of Debt.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:07:01 2018 No.12200489

>>12200476
And investors did lose everything. Nobody wanted to loan to failing quasi-socialist anymore. Their state bonds were bottom tier junk bonds. That's why Argentina ran to World Bank for money as last straw, and World Bank said okay BUT you retards need to do these reforms in order to get loans. That's when alt-globalization went like oh no they can't do that viva socialismo!

Argentina is doing okay now after those reforms btw.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:08:19 2018 No.12200495 File: 79 KB, 1465x556, 1541031388830.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12200489 >Argentina is doing okay now after those reforms btw. It is absolutely not.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:11:45 2018 No.12200505
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>>12200495
Prime example of how leftists are leftists because they don't understand jackshit about basic economics. Pray tell me, is Japan suffering hellhole because of this currency exchange rate? Look, it's three times worse!

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:16:27 2018 No.12200518

>>12200495
>>12200505
Case in point, I actually had encounter with gullible leftist IRL who knew jackshit about anything. So she said "minimum wage should be higher" So I said fine with me, it has no effect, only purchasing power matters and it has nothing to do with how many monetary units one gets per hour, Japanese get like 1000 yen an hour minimum, do you really think they can thus afford new iPhone every hour?
"Yes", she said.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:20:11 2018 No.12200534 >>12196401 i really don't get whats wrong with the people in this chart except a few exceptions like peterson,dawkins and sargon of akkad

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:22:34 2018 No.12200542 File: 21 KB, 325x350, 1517816402534.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12200505 >Japan suffering hellhole because of this currency exchange rate? No, but Arg sure is. They're dollar deficient.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:25:53 2018 No.12200556 File: 44 KB, 576x532, 43622756_1892195377523959_2049133169160098288_n.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12194549 None, the more I read, the more communist I get.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:27:11 2018 No.12200560

>>12200489
They didn't lose everything because international institutions exist to protect them. Anyone that wants to throw money away should lose it and bear the full risk.

>>12200518
Let me guess... you think changes in the minimum wage directly correlate with the same change in the price level? There's better ways to boost real wages but adjusting minimum wage generally does result in decreasing the real cost of living for those at the bottom.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:28:01 2018 No.12200565 >>12199964 Lel, the Chinese market alone for Huawei is larger than US and Europe combined, Trump isn’t doing shit.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:28:09 2018 No.12200567
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>>12200542
>They're dollar deficient.
What does this even mean. That their government and businesses is not buying enough dollars? Then what?

This is the chart you should be looking at
https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.PP.CD?locations=AR&page=6

Do you even understand what it means?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:29:09 2018 No.12200574 >>12200567 There's your purchasing power compared to iPhone and it's not much >>12200542. It's losing it's purchasing power to inflation year by year.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:30:08 2018 No.12200577 >>12200560 Don't you know increasing the minimum wage results in equal rate of inflation instantly? Have you no logic, commie?

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:30:32 2018 No.12200579
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>>12200565
>the Chinese market alone for Huawei is larger than US and Europe combined

Yeah, try to do business when you get excluded from SWIFT due to violating Iran sanctions and lose the supply chain too.

CN market is only thing you'll have if you don't behave.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:34:22 2018 No.12200593

>>12200560
>They didn't lose everything because international institutions exist to protect them.
If they were smart investors investing in uncertain high risk environment that should be the case, that's a smart move. How securities cost them and what was ROI? It can't be positive in any case, just migitation of losses. Otherwise investors would have been keeping on pumping free money into Argentine forever and World Bank intervention would never happened. Anyways, now you have yielded that Argentina's quasi-socialist economical policy was utter shit and high risk. That's progress.

>Anyone that wants to throw money away should lose it and bear the full risk.
Agreed.

>Let me guess... you think changes in the minimum wage directly correlate with the same change in the price level?
I don't think, I know.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:38:05 2018 No.12200603 >>12194549 the real redpill is hating capitalism, fascism, socialism, communism and liberalism equally

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:39:43 2018 No.12200615
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>>12200574
No, that's purchasing power of one single foreign item. Overall PPP has been going up like hot balloon since 2002. I'll wager problem is in customs. Again, leftist shitbrains draw conclusions from one anecdote to drive their stupid agenda and blatantly refuse to look at bigger picture and search for more plausible reasons for that anecdotal outlier.

And here is your fucking inflation, it's eurozone levels, even below right now.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:42:05 2018 No.12200622
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>>12200567
>GDP

>>12200579
>try to do business when you get excluded from SWIFT due to violating Iran sanctions and lose the supply chain too.
You do realize a consortium of nations could create an alternative payments system right? America won't just be able to keep freezing the assets of whoever they don't like forever.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:43:26 2018 No.12200629 >>12200622 Do you even understand what is PPP? Of course you don't, you are communist.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:44:34 2018 No.12200633

>>12200593
Look at the empirical data on price changes where minimum wage goes up. It isn't a direct correlation, prices do go up but the people at the upper end are the ones temporarily losing a bit. And go read Naylor's book on Hot Money:
>Bernie Cornfeld had a secret, which he did not share with the other directors of Investors' Overseas Services. That secret was the ultimate cause of Cornfeld's downfall, as the other directors reacted to a nonexistent liquidity crisis by dumping him from control. The secret was and is that there is a difference between hot money and cool, between the widows mite and the heroin traffickers hoard, between a temporary corporate working balance and a tax-evader's secret offshore bank account. Although IOS was a mutual fund, not a bank, its shares, like bank deposits, were theoretically redeemable on demand. But between 10% and 20% of the money in IOS was felt to be not subject to demands for redemption, for it could not risk exposure. Such examples are not merely of antiquarian interest, for in 1980, when Nugan-Hand Bank came crashing down with a $50 million hole in its accounts, no depositor turned up to claim the missing money. Similarly, when a high-living employee of Morgan Guaranty Bank was investigated, in the spring of 1986, for possibly having illegitimately diverted foreign clients' money, the speculation was that the funds in question were Brazilian flight capital, whose owners were in no position to protest, at least in public.
>Flight capital appearing on a bank's balance sheets is, in accounting terms, no different from other deposits. But, as some of the banks came to realize, it does not always behave like other deposits. It is, like the hot money on the IOS books, de jure a deposit but de facto part of the capital of the banking system. In effect, it is debt that insists on behaving like equity; and it is easy enough to modify accounting procedures to conform to this economic reality.
>If the exchange of debt into equity is legitimate for creditor interests to demand of debtors, it is equally legitimate for debtors to demand of creditors. And the augmented capital of the creditor institutions, which possess the information to determine which deposits are effectively frozen into capital, thus provides a major cushion against which bad debts can be written off without imperiling the solvency of the banking institutions. If those bad debts are those that the debtor countries can identify as illegitimate - deriving from phony invoicing or the looting of the national patrimony by persons enjoying power without responsibility, or caused by the need for borrowing to offset the drain from capital flight-the circle is complete. The 'debt crisis' is resolved by eliminating it at source, leaving the world with a smaller, but considerably wiser banking system, and leaving it free from the overhang of paper obligations that currently blight the economic futures of debtor and creditor countries alike.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:47:16 2018 No.12200644 >>12194549 Das Kapital

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:48:20 2018 No.12200650 >>12200644 I also loved "That's Capital" great stuff

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:48:46 2018 No.12200654 >>12200633 >empirical data There's no way to test it empirically, stop abusing the language of science & English. You are looking at economic history, which cannot itself create a priori laws of economics (this goes against empiricism).

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:49:38 2018 No.12200660 >>12194549 >Falling for socialism/communism to begin with Imagine being that braindead, life must be easy and devoid of hardship if your mind is that incompetent in basic critical thinking.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:51:10 2018 No.12200668 >>12200654 >a priori laws of economics It doesn't matter if you're a Marxist or Austrian retard if your theory can't explain reality it's useless

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:54:30 2018 No.12200688

>>12200633
>prices do go up
Thanks for conceding the point.
>but the people at the upper end are the ones temporarily losing a bit
>temporarily
Thanks for conceding the point. You can see this pattern in Venezuela. They raise wages, prices go up for everyone, claim they were sticking finger to rich people, are baffled why effect doesn't last, raise wages again, same pattern repeats, and because they are socialist like you, they have zero understanding why it happens every time and like brainless chicken they are, don't learn from it. This is the essence of socialist.

As for greentext, just look at this
>there is a difference between hot money and cool, between the widows mite and the heroin traffickers hoard, between a temporary corporate working balance and a tax-evader's secret offshore bank account
thank mr obvious

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:56:38 2018 No.12200695 >>12200668 >fails so hard at reading comprehension But I agree, which is exactly why capitalism is proven to work and socialism is not.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:56:50 2018 No.12200697 File: 55 KB, 922x1009, 1524862210882.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12200668 I'm merely suggesting some ontological, etymological & epistemological rigor here. What anon said is empirical test, is not in fact, empirical test.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:58:23 2018 No.12200704 >>12194549 The Geneology of Morality Beyond Good and Evil The Antichrist. et al I was an anarcho-communist content with my ideals until that son of a bitch slowly over the course of about 3 years disabused me of it.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 14:58:38 2018 No.12200706 >>12200668 >currency is like real matter man

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:01:36 2018 No.12200716
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>>12200622
It's not really 'whoever',they violated America's sanctions on Iran and that's a big no no with Trump and Bolton. Absolute does suck for Huawei. They're going to get the treatment that ZTE didn't get.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:02:39 2018 No.12200721 >>12200706 > not taking the 'Currency is AI' pill.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:10:56 2018 No.12200755 >>12200704 Books about morals? why

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:11:31 2018 No.12200760

>>12200688
If my income goes up quicker than prices I don't lose out only those whose wages are not going up are losing. Prices don't tend to increase fast enough so people at the bottom benefit.
Venezuela is a mess for a shit ton of reason and like I said raising minimum wage is not necessarily the best way of raising real income, it usually is just shifting income around which may or may not be desirable. Price controls in Venezuela are one of the things that caused the mess there.

>>12200695
Capitalism and socialism are loaded political terms which essiently mean notting today. You can find all kinds examples of unchecked private control causing disaster and collective control stagnating.

>>12200697
And I said empirical data is all that matters and a priori systems are just ideological baggage blocking you from seeing reality.

>>12200716
And there's many countries that might want to do business with Iran in disregard of what the American congress thinks. You can only shake the boat so much by arresting Chinese business people and freezing the assets of Russians until something gives and they start building an alternative system not controlled by America.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:16:25 2018 No.12200781

>>12200760
>And I said empirical data is all that matters and a priori systems are just ideological baggage blocking you from seeing reality.

But economic history is not empirical data, you'd have to have an empirical test for that, and you cannot do such tests on scales of economies; and empirical test itself run on assumptions of a priori laws of spacetime ffs.

it's more ideological to say economic history is empirical data here, in order to win an argument, ffs, than it is to point out said historical record is not in fact empirical test which produced empirical data - one is conflation one is accuracy of terms.

and as for countries choosing Iran over America as business venture, that's their own risk. maybe China will move US supply chain to Iran since it's great country. Too bad they have major STEM braindrain to USA tho lol.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:18:41 2018 No.12200787 >>12200755 Because socialism is moralism

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:22:44 2018 No.12200798
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>>12200781
>economic history is not empirical data
Yes it is. It's just all the buying and selling going on.

>empirical test itself run on assumptions of a priori laws of spacetime ffs.
Go read Against Method by Paul Feyerabend and stop worrying.

>and as for countries choosing Iran over America as business venture, that's their own risk. maybe China will move US supply chain to Iran since it's great country. Too bad they have major STEM braindrain to USA tho lol.
It's not about Iran, that's just one of the many things. America is trying to stop competition from Chinese businesses on the same charges that everyone knows American businesses are doing (i.e. "spying"). America keeps proving if they don't like you they'll try to fuck with you so many in the third world and other countries would be willing to opt into an alternative payment system if it came about.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:24:34 2018 No.12200805 >>12200798 >. It's just all the buying and selling going on. going on? the past data? going on? what sort of reverse entropy machine do you have in your house are you Tesla

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:28:13 2018 No.12200817 >>12200781 Wow okay sorry I've been following the thread because I thought you'd convince me but you obviously have no clue about anything at all and are just parroting Bloomberg new level analyses

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:30:13 2018 No.12200820 >>12200817 bloomberg is the exact news org who treats historical data as empirical data tho

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:31:11 2018 No.12200828 File: 50 KB, 839x382, DOusvFI.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:31:39 2018 No.12200830 >>12200798 >. America is trying to stop competition from Chinese businesses on the same charges that everyone knows American businesses are doing (i.e. "spying"). and China does the same, they too arrest Americans on charges of business espionage.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:32:57 2018 No.12200840 File: 157 KB, 500x607, i-feed-on-your-fears-i-have-none-mr-millennial-29129219.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12200828

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:33:41 2018 No.12200844

>>12200755
Why did Nietzsche disabuse me of my leftism?
Because he diagnoses the socialist character as something sickly, which wants to make all things as low as it. It is the reductio ad absurdum of liberalism which is the reductio ad absurdum of Christianity sans god. When I first read him I thought "Interesting critique, I will keep this in my back pocket to keep myself in check." But as time went on I saw exactly what he was saying: the milieu both in my irl life (I was at one point an avid activist) and in how the leftist milieu was evolving on a mass scale. It was all ressentiment. They worship weakness and the weak. What's more, faced with the knowledge that we/they were unable to enact any sort of substantial change to the ordering of the world, most of the milieu frittered away its energy attacking tiny personal issues, the things people say, 'inclusiveness' etc. Gone were the grand designs and most of the left has now contented itself with being an vanguard force for what really is just inclusive capitalism, a strike team for corporate HR departments. Why? Because doing so satisfies their resentment for those it deems to have 'power' and they don't have to expend the Will to enact any real, meaningful and radical change in how the world is ordered. Most leftists today do not care about attacking capitalism, they just want to fling some shit. They've given up completely on the revolutionary subject as first imagined because a workingman is too conventional, he is too powerful, so they advocate for transexual office workers and the like. Because of the fundamental orientation of their ideology, they have made their own 'movement' null and void. revolution is hard so mere ressentiment suffices for them.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:34:15 2018 No.12200847 File: 67 KB, 543x500, 1544301255395.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12200840

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:35:12 2018 No.12200849 >>12200844 Don't know if pasta or not, but thanks for elaborating. Have you gone far enough to consider 'Strong must fear the weak'?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:35:27 2018 No.12200851 File: 13 KB, 187x270, 1544301327007.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12200847

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:36:18 2018 No.12200855

>>12200844
>Gone were the grand designs and most of the left has now contented itself with being an vanguard force for what really is just inclusive capitalism, a strike team for corporate HR departments. Why? Because doing so satisfies their resentment for those it deems to have 'power' and they don't have to expend the Will to enact any real, meaningful and radical change in how the world is ordered. Most leftists today do not care about attacking capitalism, they just want to fling some shit. They've given up completely on the revolutionary subject as first imagined because a workingman is too conventional, he is too powerful, so they advocate for transexual office workers and the like. Because of the fundamental orientation of their ideology, they have made their own 'movement' null and void. revolution is hard so mere ressentiment suffices for them.

Like Land keeps asking over at the Twitter, have any of the LBQT/Intersectionalist considered why capitalist corporations chose them as their battering ram..

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:36:31 2018 No.12200856 File: 57 KB, 750x563, 1544301391706.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12200851

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:38:13 2018 No.12200865 File: 62 KB, 500x335, kill-everone-in-charge-marxist-t-toet-economics-p-starve-28495358.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12200856

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:38:20 2018 No.12200866

>>12200820
How can you do an historical inquiry without presupposing space and time retard? How can you do history without time? How can you do history without data? Is historical material all in our heads or found in physical archives?

Where is currency on the other hand? Completely in our heads and in the language we use about it. Does money and economy exist outside of time so that history should be kept outside of its empirical analysis? Money and the economy is not 'real' it is an institutional fiction reproduced by our actions. Do you have no grasp of your own actions and thoughts? Are you a mere dog, recognising friend and foe, even if monochromatically? What is this dogmatic confidence you have, swine?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:39:29 2018 No.12200874 File: 92 KB, 500x620, uqqhe.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12200865

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:40:55 2018 No.12200879 File: 83 KB, 500x425, the-floor-is-basic-economics-never-touch-that-floor-comrade-22586286.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] The left can't meme

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:41:54 2018 No.12200885 >>12199384 Yeah what part?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:43:14 2018 No.12200893 >>12194549 Isaiah Berlin's 'The Crooked Timber of Mankind'

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:43:21 2018 No.12200894 File: 92 KB, 525x450, 1pdri2.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12200879 Kek

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:44:24 2018 No.12200896 File: 18 KB, 228x310, e407419a41623753df6536009d599a06--memes.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12200894

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:48:03 2018 No.12200913
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>>12200896
Don't forget that libshits are a problem all over the world, except for in the shitholes they love so much. Kek. I'd love to see antifa go to South America and get tossed out a helicopter. Why don't you go help the shitholes?

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:48:54 2018 No.12200915

>>12200866
> *
Tell me how you conduct scientific empirical research into effect of just prices in Rome.
You cannot observe it, you cannot experience it, you cannot control it - thus you cannot experiment with it. It's not empirical data or research, per the lack of observable (either by senses or scientific equipment) data called evidence. To call it such is abuse of language and methods.
Record of prices and transactions of the past is just that, economic history. And you cannot deduce or induce laws from history. Because that's just contradiction of logical (non-empirical thinking) or empiricism.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:49:49 2018 No.12200917

>>12200760
>If my income goes up quicker than prices I don't lose out only those whose wages are not going up are losing.
And your real wage is not going up you motherfucking retarded mouthbreathing socialist, only the amount of monetary units you get does, and yes, those who didn't get state sanctioned raise suffer. How hard is this?

>Capitalism and socialism are loaded political terms which essiently mean notting today.
Now you are just being full retard just to avoid argument. Never go full retard.

>>12200787
Fuck yes we will feed, house and clothe you stupid fuckers in morals all you want. Costs us nothing.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:50:07 2018 No.12200920 File: 43 KB, 500x502, 1544302207919.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12200913 muh ekwalitee

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:53:56 2018 No.12200938 It has been a nice thread, thank you commies and capitalists.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:57:55 2018 No.12200953

>>12200915
You cannot 'induce' laws, period. Read some fucking Popper or Kuhn or hell even Feyerabend at least you won't be talking shit. You also cannot experiment on humans and have conclusive results. This is what's wrong with psychology and economics and the such. Humans are not material objects and even they (fucking quanta) resist prediction. Some self reflection please.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:59:34 2018 No.12200962

>>12200953
Where is "the shit"
> You also cannot experiment on humans and have conclusive results
We agree.
> This is what's wrong with psychology and economics and the such
We agree
> Humans are not material objects and even they (fucking quanta) resist prediction
We agree.

Where exactly is the shoe tight?

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 15:59:35 2018 No.12200963 >>12198813 not sure if troll or retard

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 16:04:31 2018 No.12200985
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>>12200953
>Humans are not material objects
May I suggest this book to deepen your understanding? Sure it's fiction, but what's the difference between that and your world view. Try some material razor blade on your throat, you are not material. Film it on live-stream. Prove us all wrong. Go on, commie.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 16:12:11 2018 No.12201011 >>12200985 So if we are all nothing but material, can you describe the physical law that dictates the end result of our decision making process? Not trying to be snarky or setting up a gotcha, just curious how you explain this apparent contradiciton.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 16:23:40 2018 No.12201065 >>12200985 Human will* social science is not medicine

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 17:02:20 2018 No.12201246

>>12200917
Minimum wage increases have a solid history of raising the real wages of those who benefit from the wage increase. If you actually study how prices are set in the real world you would understand why. See:

Pricing Decisions in the Euro Area: How Firms set Prices and Why

Pittman, Russell. 2009. “Who Are You Calling Irrational? Marginal Costs, Variable Costs, and the Pricing Practices of Firms,” Economic Analysis Group Discussion Paper 09-3
http://www.justice.gov/atr/public/eag/248394.htm

Shim, Eunsup, and Ephraim Sudit. 1995. “How Manufacturers Price Products,” Management Accounting 76.8: 37–39.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 17:03:37 2018 No.12201250 >>12201246 >of those who benefit from the wage increase an insanely huge qualifier

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 17:18:08 2018 No.12201322 File: 157 KB, 315x525, face7.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12200840 >>12200847 >>12200851 >>12200856 >>12200865 >>12200874 >>12200879 >>12200896 Good lord, your posting these unironcally are you,right? The right truly can't meme

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 17:19:34 2018 No.12201330 File: 152 KB, 1280x680, 1538592687747.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12201322 > the right can't meme.

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 17:24:10 2018 No.12201355 >>12201330 Thank you for proving my point

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 18:21:17 2018 No.12201546 >>12196663 Rand is not AnCap. She's minarchist and LfCap

>>	Anonymous Sat Dec 8 20:13:14 2018 No.12202022 >>12194549 Nobody "turns away from socialism/communism". You've merely turned your back on the working class.

Anonymous Sat Dec 8 22:55:39 2018 No.12202488
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>>12196566
this this this this.
i went from being a self entitled waste of space basedboy to a productive, self-employed man in the course of reading this book. I'd be legitimately interested to hear people's criticisms of it.
my takeaway
>trust in your own mind and your abilities
>do for yourself and do what's best for you. in turn you will make the world a better place for yourself and for those who would be of benefit to you by their pursuit of what's best for themselves (provided it's not at the expense of others)
>using your mind to tackle any problem that presents itself is the greatest feeling man can know
>the "moral" concept of sacrifice is one of the biggest blights afflicting mankind. (It is not sacrifice when you choose to do one thing over another if it's in pursuit of what you desire.)
>no one man has a claim to the fruit of another man's mind, unless voluntarily given.

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 00:17:58 2018 No.12202721 File: 3.21 MB, 4160x3120, 20181208_015752.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>12202488 piss off

>>	Anonymous Sun Dec 9 00:51:41 2018 No.12202780 File: 182 KB, 439x648, peoples history of the world.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] this dumb book.

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/lit/ - Literature