/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12132698]

What book do I have to read to accept the Lord Jesus Christ as my God and Savior? I've read the Holy Bible, but it hasn't convinced me. I want to believe and be saved.

[Anonymous No.12132705]

>>12132698
>I've read the Holy Bible
No you haven't.

Start with Mere Christianity.

[Anonymous No.12132721]

>>12132705
2/4

[Anonymous No.12132727]

>>12132698
Pascal’s Penseés worked for me

[Anonymous No.12132729]

>>12132721
3/4

[Anonymous No.12132738]

>>12132729
4/4

That's all the charts I have on Christianity.

Godspeed!

[Anonymous No.12132746]

>>12132727
I'd definitely rec this as well. Pascal is criminally neglected.

[Anonymous No.12132759]

>>12132698
Christianity is the intellectual's religion.

[Anonymous No.12132789]

Clement's Protrepticus.

[Anonymous No.12132801]

>>12132705
>No you haven't.
Yes I have.

[Anonymous No.12132808]

>>12132801
>No you

>>12132738
5/4 i lied

[Christposting No.12132837]

Faith unfolds and develops in levels. There is faith that this life is not without meaning, faith in the value and sacredneess of other human lives, faith in the paths our lives have taken, faith in the abstract being of God, faith in prayer and the presence of Spirit in our lives, and so on.

For me (and many others) faith has been the gradual development of these things. Each buttresses and anticipates the other.

[Anonymous No.12132867]

Does anyone here go to church? Thinking of going

[Christposting No.12132890]

>>12132867
If you decide to go, get in touch via email first. Just write a few lines about yourself, say youre inquiring (dont write your lifes story). Someone will get back to you and arrange when you can drop by. It will help a lot having someone expecting you.

Better still, go with a friend/family member to their church. It can be pretty overwhelming, especially if youre somewhat shy/nervous. I tried just dropping into churches a few times and just kept to myself and didnt go back.

Its a bumpy road, and you have to be persistent in showing up, but you will never regret it. A good church is such a joyful, beautiful thing. Its a place unlike any other in modern society, where you lift and are lifted, where you are challenged and encouraged, and where friendships of a deeper kind emerge like magic.

[Anonymous No.12133026]

>>12132867
Ya just show up, they love newcomers in my experience.

I'm pretty spoiled with my church though: high energy band, thoughtful and intelligent pastor, high rate of offerings donated to charitable outreach, mission trips.
They've done more to deepen my faith than any book would have.

My point is, if you give church an honest shot and still don't feel like you'd want to go back again, you're going to the wrong church. Id recconmend you keep looking, and don't give up.
Good luck anon! Jesus loves you.

[Anonymous No.12133070]

>>12132890
>, get in touch via email first. Just write a few lines about yourself, say youre inquiring (dont write your lifes story). Someone will get back to you and arrange when you can drop by

[Anonymous No.12133080]

>>12133070
Worked for me. Actually this is my new trick for getting involved with things. I just shoot emails out and it makes the whole showing up thing much easier.

[Anonymous No.12133086]

>>12133026
> high energy band

[Anonymous No.12133141]

>>12133026
>high energy band,
>pastor
>mission trips.
This isn't a church. This is an antichurch. They are focused on the miracle and not the message, and defile Christ by making themselves as God. Protestants are not Christians.

[Christposting No.12133159]

>>12133141
Even if this is just supposed to be funny its still stupid. Let others worship like they want to.

[Anonymous No.12133163]

>>12132698
What I believe
The kingdom of God is within you
>Lev Tolstoy

He's the only writer that I've come across that honestly and humbly talks about the most pressing and practical problems of being a Christian

[Anonymous No.12133190]

>>12132698
>Holy Bible
did you really read the entire thing?

[Anonymous No.12133229]

>>12133159
He’s not stopping their singing and dancing, just pointing out that it’s not proper worship of our Lord and Saviour.

[Anonymous No.12133284]

>>12132698
You don't understand faith. Read Kierkegaard, not because it will convince you of anything, but because you'll better understand what it is you're trying to attain.

[Anonymous No.12133293]

>>12133086
Not the most patrician, i know, but it is certainly more exhilarating than Catholic hymnals. I believe that worship should be joyful.

>>12133141
>>12133229
I can assure you that is not the case.
My faith is not vapid.
Christ's sacrifice through grace is, as always, the foundation of our devotion to Him.
Is it so wrong to take into the world what He has taught us? To provide for the least of these?

>>12133159
Appreciated, friend.

[Anonymous No.12133308]

>>12133293
I'm not Catholic but I unirinically love hymnals. Hillsing and variants do absolutely nothing for me and they certainly don't "set my mind right."

[Anonymous No.12133318]

>>12133308
Why can't I hit the o key lmai

[Anonymous No.12133322]

>>12132698

[Anonymous No.12133343]

>>12133308
I'm glad for it, whatever floats your boat. A "good" worship song is the one that gets you singing praise.
>hillsong
Didn't even know it had a name. Thanks.

[Anonymous No.12133344]

>>12132698
>I've read the Holy Bible, but it hasn't convinced me
Congratulations, you're not too retarded. If you're interested in the secular study of theology by all means go ahead, but otherwise stay away from religion.

[Anonymous No.12133381]

This is a very short and very easy to read good book. They discovered it after the nun that wrote it had died. She was canonized because it was so good they thought it had to be divinely inspired.

This discrption doesn’t do it justice but basically it’s about being how in the day to day we can be serve Re to God. It really made me feel like I had a place in his kingdom and I’m not even Catholic.

[Anonymous No.12133499]

>>12133381
All Gods creatures got a place in the choir
Some sing low and some sing higher
Some sing out loud on the telephone wire
Some just clap their hands, or paws, or anything they got!

I have that book!

[Anonymous No.12134609]

How do I deal with an atheist gf?

[Anonymous No.12134663]

>>12132705
>>12132729
These tryhard Christian charts are hilarious. The other two are ok though.

[Anonymous No.12134796]

>>12132698
anything by Buddha

[Anonymous No.12134800]

>>12134609
Dump her

[Anonymous No.12134918]

Paul, a man who never spent even an hour beside Christ, has created the majority of the mainstream narratives which Christianity has since held to. Original Sin, the backbone of all Christianity, was not even ONCE mentioned by Christ. Not even once did Christ mention His connection to Adam and Eve, a Garden of Eden, or of being here to sacrifice Himself for our sins. Paul and the ones who followed Him are responsible for these and many other concepts. The notion that you just have to have "faith" and you'll be saved, even though James, the very brother of Jesus, said that "faith without works is dead". So the point is anon, do not let yourself become a mindless sponge for every single piece of doctrine taught in Christianity - look to the source of everything you read in the Bible, and ask yourself what authority the author had to speak what they did. Jesus obviously holds the highest authority, if you yourself consider him to be Divine. Do not simply believe in every sentence you find in the Bible - a document written and compiled and bound together by men, and not God. Christ is only responsible for the word's and actions directly attributed to Him, and everything else you must use your discretion regarding whether the person truly speaks for Christ or not, remembering that Christ did not write the Bible Himself.

https://www.jesuswordsonly.com/books/727-proofs-the-12-apostles-rejected-paul.html

Personally I am a Hindu, but I see Christ as the Avatar of Lord Vishnu/God the Father following Krishna and Buddha. My best advice for you is to ignore the dogma which the church will try and entangle you in, and simply follow Christ. Do not seek salvation, simply strive to be like Christ, and I assure that salvation, if you care for that, will come, but best of all will be the enlightenment experienced while alive.

Take care OP, and remember to never sacrifice your reasoning ability not your morality for the sake of anything you read, as doing so makes you a cult-member on principle, and is ultimately the selling of your soul. Nothing bad will happen to you by your not believing in X or Y informatiin, but Faith in the Divine is real and brings one to a connection with It that will have a tangible effect in your life. But remember to never sacrifice your true soul in this process, and that nothing bad is going to happen to you so long as you are a Good person, which I'm sure you are.

[Anonymous No.12134966]

>>12134918
Where the hell do I even start with this? Misinformation after misinformation! You claim that because Paul never spent single moment with Christ then we can ignore all that he has to say. Do you know how stupid this is? It demonstrates your ignorance of Paul's own teaching. I doubt you've even read a single so epistle. Bear in mind that we only have a minute set of details regarding Christ's life and His ministry. The gospels focus on the last 3 years of His life and even then the sayings of Christ are selective. Paul when giving evidence for his teachings give OT citation after OT citation to prove his point. He was a former Jew who was well trained in the teachings of the Pharisees. He showed a deep understanding of the OT and then even expounded on that and taught others what he had learned. He had more than 3 years to write, he met the 12 desciples and even learned from them.

Regarding original sin Christ does talk about the depravity of man. In John 6:44 Christ states:
>No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
We see here humans are too depraved and weak to even come to God. It takes His powerful hand to bring us to Him. In Luke 15:4 it says
>What man of you, having a hundred sheep, if he has lost one of them, does not leave the ninety-nine in the open country, and go after the one that is lost, until he finds it?
You see that it is the shepherd who looks for the sheep and not the sheep who earnestly seek the shepherd. Again, talking about the effects of fall. We have fallen from grace and are incapable of coming back to God.

In John 10:18 Christ talks about His death:
>No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge I have received from my Father.”
In John 1:29 again we have statements about Christs purpose to die for the sins of the world:
>The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

>Personally I am a Hindu, but I see Christ as the Avatar of Lord Vishnu/God the Father following Krishna and Buddha
Shut up, the things Christ says is in stark contrast to hindudu philosophy. Please keep it out of my religion.

And regarding the desciples not liking Paul. Read this: http://www.exegeticalapologetics.com/2018/05/the-historicity-of-appearance-to-500-in.html?m=1
It touches on the point you made about Paul being dishonest.

[Anonymous No.12135096]

>>12134966
Literally nothing here even remotely describes Original Sin. Christ "taking away the sin from the world" most likely means, like all other examples of it in the Gospels, that He clears people's sins by willful forgiveness of them, like the woman who anointed His feet with oil. Not "DUDE, EVE ATE THE APPLE AND THEN SIN WAS CREATED AND NOW GOD HAS SENT HIS SON DOWN TO KILL HIMSELF FOR US SO THAT WE ARE NOW FORGIVEN" There is precisely zero scriptural basis for that statement either from Christ or from any of the apostle's commentating.

What authority had Paul, to teach? He saw Christ once. A single vision. He was not one of the original Twelve, not did he even show respect to them, nor did they accept him as one of them. Jesus was clearly different from the OT, and if you want to use Paul's knowledge of the OT to mean something in relation to Christ, who overturned many of its statutes, you may as well just follow Judaism. Again, Paul being a learned Jew does not give him authority to speak on Christ, else we should all simply be following the Old Testament, forgetting about Christ altogether.

Ezekiel 18:20
"The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him."

There're numerous other passages indicating son tosolely be from one's own, individual actions, and absolutely none stating it to be a "collective condition" caused by "Adam and Eve".

Christ predicted His death, and gave Himself to it rather than fighting it, but once again, to create the entire narrative of Original Sin from this fact is entirely unaccounted for.

Worst is that people who genuinely believe in the doctrine must naturally have to consider Judas, the Pharisees and the Roman authorities who all played a role in Christ's death, as being humanity's saviors. Had they not done what they had done, humanity would not have recieved it's salvation. Had that Roman soldier not pierced Christ's side to ensure He was dead, He may not have been dead, and humanity therefore not having received its salvation. God bless that Roman soldier, and let us create a Christian holiday in his honor. It's sickening.

I don't consider your tone towards me as very Christ-like, and I'm only here presenting my personal views. You needn't be rude to me or my tradition. Believe whatever you wish, but once again, I don't consider there to be any indication from Christ Himself that He "intended to sacrifice His life so that humanity could be freed from the son which began with Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden". This seems to be a Pauline ("For God so loved the world...") and Augustinian narrative which has since dominated all Christianity. You should strive to follow Christ alone, and not His commentators who may or may not be misrepresenting Him. Remember, there is Christ, and there are men.

[Anonymous No.12135109]

>Be Christian
>Participate in the political system that is nothing but a tool of the war machine
Is there any info on Anarcho-Christianity?

[Anonymous No.12135128]

>>12134966
Also, it may shock you, but India had the concept of "Male God incarnating into Human form" thousands of years before Christ was ever born. We have Rama and Krishna and Buddha all recorded long before the concept ever reached Rome. But I'm sure my culture's figures, recorded of many thousands of years before Christ, are false, and yours true. It is impossible that all of them could be real, right? Only Semitic culture can be true, of course, and we must therefore spread it to every corner of the Earth.

I don't claim to know everything by the way, and you definitely know more about Scripture than I do, yet your reasoning seems lacking, and your mind is closed-off to other cultures.

[Anonymous No.12135129]

>>12134918
>I am a Hindu
Into the trash it goes.

[Anonymous No.12135138]

>>12135109
Ellul “Anarchy and Christianity”

[Anonymous No.12135144]

>>12134918
Do you believe Jesus was the Son of God?

[Anonymous No.12135154]

>>12135096
>>12134918
2 Timothy 3:16
>16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness

You
>Do not simply believe in every sentence you find in the Bible - a document written and compiled and bound together by men, and not God. Christ is only responsible for the word's and actions directly attributed to Him, and everything else you must use your discretion regarding whether the person truly speaks for Christ or not, remembering that Christ did not write the Bible Himself.
Do you not see the problem with this? How do you know that any of Christ’s teachings in the Bible were actually his? Religion is a very important matter and I don’t appreciate your spreading lies about Christianity for your own Hindu views

[Anonymous No.12135160]

>>12134918
>Do not seek salvation, simply strive to be like Christ, and I assure that salvation, if you care for that, will come
So, in other words, seek salvation? If salvation weren’t our goal, then who really wants to suffer in this life for the sake of being like Christ? You lie a lot, but you’re not very deceptive

[Anonymous No.12135213]

>>12135154
The scripture itself tells you it is "God-breathed", so you consider that true? The Quran literally states the same thing of itself, and yet, are you Muslim? Do you consider the Quran or Islam to be true? I think not. What an absolute travesty of reasoning you've just shown to me. A flesh-and-blood man writes that his words are God-breathed, and you therefore assume it must be true.

Spreading lies? No, I am simply presenting my interpretation. We are all entitled one, aren't we? The athiest, the Anglican, the Catholic, the Buddhist, the Muslim - all of us are allowed our views are we not? And again, you have not yet shown me words from Christ Himself, or any authoritative commentators like that of the Gospels, stating in clear terms the understanding presented with "Original Sin". I'm not sure why you cling to it so strongly, perhaps because it's been pushed onto you so heavily, and yet, nowhere will you find clear exposition of it from the canonical sources themselves.

I will not be returning to this thread, having errands to run. Believe as you feel. I am only presenting my interpretation, just as you yourself can have yours. Most important is not your personal interpretation of historical scriptures, but that of your being a Good person in your present existence. So I wish you a Good day, anon.

[Anonymous No.12135235]

>>12135160
Alright, friend. I have been kind to you, but it seems you are not a very mature person. I was only telling the presently irreligious OP of this thread that he will find enlightenment in being saintly to himself and others, and also having Faith in the Divine, and that these things together will bring him to salvation more than simply "believing" in the words on the page in front of him.

OP, I tried to speak to someone like yourself who is irreligious, telling you to focus on virtue first and wherein you'd later see the glory of God, by following the former. But if you wish to simply become a mouthpiece for the words written in scriptures, like people in this thread, you're absolutely welcome to do so.

[Anonymous No.12135282]

>>12135213
>The Quran literally states the same thing of itself, and yet, are you Muslim? Do you consider the Quran or Islam to be true?
I’m a Christian, so I have faith that the Bible is true. It’s not that difficult to understand. Islam is a disgusting religion in comparison, which is why I ignore when it says its word is infallible. Without Biblical infallibility we are all lost, and none of us know what is God’s word and what isn’t. You know this, which is why you want to end the conversation.

[Anonymous No.12135320]

>>12135154
>>12135282
We take on faith that Christ's words are His own. And we assume it true that the other commentators of the Bible are whatever we've been told of them. It's quite simple. And this means that you follow CHRIST's words over the latter, if there were ever disagreement or uncertainty. What is so difficult to understand? Do you really think that you have to either accept 100% of the scriptures, or nothing of them? You realize these were all compiled by men, with human hands, and that they've even been altered across time? You realize, anon, you're not even reading the original texts as they were written?

And who is presenting Hindu views? I'm providing my background as another interpretation the OP could consider, but am ultimately telling him to follow Christ over the Church and whatever it may teach. Is this anti-Christian? Telling him to follow Christ, the original figure all of this revolves around, and not necessarily the many pieces of information that other commentators have added long after Christ came and left? My apologies then, please follow Paul and Augustine and every other doctrine the church has added over the past 2000 years of Christianity, and if you have time, please try and squeeze in some adherence to Christ too if you can. Personally I follow Christ, and not His commentators, though I know that is a sinful thing to do. I apologize anon, please continue on. The next time you see a gay couple in the street, ensure that you put them to death as the Word of God commands you to. Also, Christ said only the one without sin is fit to cast the stone, and that you should love your neighbour as yourselves, so you must make sure to follow these too. Follow both of them, okay? Both of them are equally the Word of God, and you cannot follow one or other, but both equally. Good day, anon, I've learnt so much from you. :)

[Anonymous No.12135339]

>>12135282
With or without Biblical infallibility, you yourself are merely a sheep, and an embarrassment to both men and to God. God has given you the abilities of discernment, which you discard in favor of believing the entirety of something in front of you as true. You are a slave of men, not a Servant of God.

[Anonymous No.12135376]

>>12132867
I went to church as child and hated it. When my parents allowed me to stay home on Sundays, I did so; much preferring to watch children's TV than (what I considered at the time) being dragged somewhere against my freedom - I was aged eleven or so by this time.
I became a Christian 7 years ago now, a number of years after leaving my parent's church as a child. I didn't return there but have become involved with a Presbyterian church during my time at University.
Sermon's are delivered in a thoughtful manner and are convicting and uncompromising. Today the pastor spoke about 8th commandment (lying), condemning the rising storm of transgenderism (which was deemed lying about what we are) in the process. Yet, when there is condemnation there is ever more need for grace and this is not left unsaid. Indeed we are the first to admit that we are sinners in need of salvation - no better than anyone else. Christians at any church you visit should have this quality.
As other anons have alluded to, reading can bring you to salvation (in fact I came to faith primarily though apologetics websites, despite my Christian upbringing), but there is more to Christianity than words on pages: it is good to see it in action, and what better place can this be seen than in the Church?
Being a Christian should not be a solitary experience (this been a struggle for me). We need each other to exercise love, to grow in faith and to rebuke one another - opportunities that I cherish more with each church service, particularly when I contrast my church-going experience now with my years with a high level of spiritual solitude.
Finally, wherever you visit - even as a non-Christian - be mindful about the particular experience there. Don't let a bad one taint your view of Christianity and most importantly don't let it taint your view of Christ - how foolish that would be! Jesus says, as recorded in Matthew: "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven". In short, do not judge Christ by his supposed followers but by who he was and what he did.

[Anonymous No.12135391]

>>12135320
>We take on faith that Christ's words are His own
You can justify literally any religious belief like this. "I take on faith that Allah's words are His own." carries as much weight (none).

[Anonymous No.12135397]

>>12135376
>transgenderism is bad and your gonna get what's coming to you trannies
>but when there is condemnation there is ever more need for grace lol
Nietzsche was right about Christcuck mongrels.

[Anonymous No.12135398]

>>12132698
Kierkegaard's Fear and Trembling

[Anonymous No.12135453]

>>12135391
Well, then, this should remind you that ultimately your own reasoning has to agree with whatever you read. Imagine if some rogue, at some point in history, surreptitiously altered one of the texts, adding in lines that showed Christ to encourage murder or adultery or other heinous act, which became part of the texts moving forward. Would you follow it? Would you perform mental gymnastics, believing that the man who promoted peace between people would also condone such horrors? Believe me, there would be people in this world who would do so, rather than reasoning about the matter properly.

If you sacrifice your own reasoning and discretion, you are sacrificing your own soul. The only resson you follow Christ at all is because you clearly see the Divinity in his words. You know that the author of them, be it a normal human named Jesus, a Divine human named Jesus, or some other author writing a story, was indeed very wise, and someone who has shown you the depths of your own soul. You recognize the Divinity of Christ's words because they resound with the Divinity already in you - the innate knowledge of God you already possess. If you are to cast this out from yourself, you become like a fundamentalist, of any variety. The kind who goes to homesexuals and tells them God hates them, rather than needing Christ's advice of "loving thy neighbour" or "the least of these my brethren", which he gave no exceptions to, making it seem as if they applied to ALL people, without differentiation. Or like the Islamic terrorists of the world, literally murdering others in the name of God.

Never sacrifice your own soul, anon. These words in front of you are merely a guide to the scripture already written within you. Never sacrifice the latter for th former. It is the former existing for the latter. "The Sabbath for Man, not Man for the Sabbath", as Jesus said.

[Anonymous No.12135467]

>>12135453
very pretty

[Anonymous No.12135504]

>>12135320
>If I cannot understand it, it must be false
Pride

[Anonymous No.12135577]

>>12135504
Alright anon, I'm done with this thread. Sensible souls will see the sense in my words, and brainwashed little sheeple will see me as a deluded heretic. If you want to truly follow the Word of God, go out and murder the next gay couple you find, while also loving them as yourself. Discard your inner morality for an outward scripture, that is, discard the innate understands of righteousness which God Himself placed into your soul, in favor of scriptures written directly by men. To the rest of the anons here, remember to always show love and kindness to everyone you meet, these things having no religion but found in all of them.

[Anonymous No.12135586]

You wouldn't be asking if you felt really the need to. Sure, you might feel something missing without something as secure as christianity. But the truth is that everything good in Christianity does the opposite of make you feel secure. Monotheism is not beautiful, it's sublime. Kierkegaard asserted you cannot go beyond faith, and perhaps the "intellectual love of god" is "beneath faith" or something. But I don't see why you have to put your chips in a specific tradition to have some of the religious stage in your life. The ethical and aesthetic are not mere vanity under the aspect of eternity, with a strong and active but inexpressible faith. Wittgenstein showed us how to arrive at the inexpressible mystical through rigorous philosophy. And he said something like "we must learn to live without the consolation of belonging to a church."
I doubt whether we can be saved. Perhaps we must save ourselves.