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12072605 No.12072605 [Reply] [Original]

>Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones.

>> No.12072610

>>12072605
>then you should not want to worship them.
this doesnt make me feel much bettter about eternal hellfire though

>> No.12072611

>>12072605
Sounds kinda beta desu

>> No.12072617

Sounds nice but the reality is that earlier philosophers like Aristotle and even a poet like Virgil acknowledged that "piety" (which includes reverence of and devotion to the gods as well as one's parents and country) is a part of human virtue and morals. If the world was created by a divine Being / being, then we owe a certain reverence and worship just like we do to our parents and country.

>> No.12072619

>>12072610
If you are virtuous why would god deny you a place in heaven?

>> No.12072626

>>12072610
I suppose it could be tolerable if one takes satisfaction in the eternal butthurt of said unjust god when you didn’t follow his rules

>> No.12072629

>>12072617
Good thing we don't owe those either. At least, not on principle.

>> No.12072634

>>12072619
he's referring to an unjust god in that quote, thus a god would deny you a place in heaven precisely because of that; because he will refuse to welcome you based on the merits of your own virtues

>> No.12072635

>>12072626
The mind is its own place, and in itself
Can make a Heaven of Hell, a Hell of Heaven.

>> No.12072642

>>12072605
Meditations are an instruction on how to be a pushover.

>> No.12072645

>>12072642
>pushover
>someone who is easily controlled, offers very little resistance to what someone else wants to do, and backs down easily

what did you mean by this?

>> No.12072656

>>12072629
We do, on principle. The more we have received from someone the more we owe them, at least as a matter of giving thanks. It's basic justice. If someone pays for your bus ticket because you don't have the change, you owe them a thank you. If someone gives you a kidney because yours is failing, you owe them a much bigger thank you. Our parents gave us life and taught us the basics of living as a human being. Our country gives us art, law, science, which save us from outright barbarism. And if there is a God we owe Him our very existence and the existence of everything we know and love, so there is no limit to the amount of thanks we owe. Of course, our parents and country can often fail us, so we don't owe thanks to them always. But the whole point of God is that He would be the one infallible thing in existence and so there would never be a time where it would not be appropriate to thank or worship Him.

>> No.12072664

>>12072645
>someone who is easily controlled, offers very little resistance to what someone else wants to do, and backs down easily
exactly what the book tells you to do, because le based gods are going to take care of it eventually and if not, who cares, it doesn't really matter.

>> No.12072665

>>12072626
write it anon
a group of malcontents in hell laughing at god
you can put a pepe as the cover art

>> No.12072669
File: 86 KB, 669x531, 695513DC-749B-48F7-B61E-AA1DE15F58F9.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12072669

>>12072656
Shut up nigger

>> No.12072676

>>12072605
>posting a fake quote

>> No.12072681

>>12072605
More like Larpus Lolelius desu

>> No.12072682

>>12072656
>Our parents gave us life
im unironically still mad about this. they should have known better than to mix those genes

>> No.12072684

>>12072676
???

>> No.12072691

>>12072605
I fucking hate this guy. The first söyboy numale if you don't count Jesus

>> No.12072701

>>12072617
God, what is this mentality taking over with well read people lately that because past philosophers had faith, it is inherently correct to have faith.

I see explanations like this often, and the reality is that those folks you idolize didn't have a secret insight into these things. They believed and deconstructed logically their faith for the same reason your average person does. It's a convenient and comforting explanation.

I wont speculate as to if it is wrong or right, only that we cannot know, nor could anyone else have, and name dropping philosophers who had faith like it lends some legitimacy to religion is ridiculous. About as logical as saying "Tim Tebow is good at football and he believes aliens exist, so I do as well". Aliens may exist, but not because Tim fuckin' Tebow believes they do you loon. Same applies to your philosophers.

>> No.12072702

>>12072691
imagine being this retarded

>> No.12072709

>>12072605
“God made man, and the six-shooter made them equal”
Fuckin badass quote right there

>> No.12072718

>>12072702
Imagine thinking mankind exists for the benefit of each other and everything that befalls you is good by default. That's numale Aurelius for you and basically Jesus as well. Tolerance is no better than apathy. When you are unable to take revenge you say 'I forgive him' instead in your bitter weakness.

>> No.12072724

>>12072718
so you disagree with "Turning the other cheek"

>> No.12072728

>>12072684
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Marcus_Aurelius#Misattributed

>> No.12072730
File: 122 KB, 498x594, 1540703829139.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12072730

>>12072664
>le based gods are going to take care of it eventually
Have you even read meditations? Or studied any of the other Stoics?

>> No.12072733
File: 73 KB, 528x716, IMG_20180724_221314.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12072733

>>12072724
Of course

>> No.12072736

>>12072733
you can't keep getting away with it

>> No.12072737

>>12072730
Only meditations, just last month.

>> No.12072746
File: 169 KB, 808x1077, q82ejithgmt01.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12072746

>>12072736
Read the extremely hard to read text in this picture on his window

>> No.12072790

>>12072737
So you should be familiar with logos and how personifying it as a god or gods is a mistake. While translating it, it would not be inaccurate to translate as a "god", the original Greek meaning would be something closer to ether or logic or the way I see it as time. Logos does not take care of things because it doesnt care, but since it is divine no matter what happens is for the good. I see it as accepting what may come and move on since you can't control anything else but yourself so why bother worrying. Its not backing down, its just accepting and moving on with your life

>> No.12072801

>>12072790
>whatever happens to you happened because the gods wanted it that way and therefore it is just
why take action and accept responsibility? just move on lmao, no wonder these faggots died out.

>> No.12072804

>>12072801
they died because no one lives forever

>> No.12072809

>>12072804
speak for yourself

>> No.12072812

>>12072804
except the jews
still kicking

>> No.12072826

>>12072801
Tell me what you would do if your boyfriend died tomorrow, or your mom or someone close to you?

Stoics have a concept of action and responsibility (Aurelius was a fucking emperor), but that action should be directed towards something worthwhile and not trying to change something you cannot

>> No.12072849

>>12072826
You can act like a pompous faggot all you want, the book still literally tells you to not get angry and not fight back when others do you wrong.

>> No.12072858

>>12072849
There is no reason to harbor anger. It does not tell you to not defend yourself. It says that sometimes a display of anger is necessary to stop wrongs, though you should never let the anger actually enter you.

>> No.12072889

>>12072605
Fake quote, but
>they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by
is so fucking retarded that I am stupefied as to how OP didn't immediately disregard the rest of the nonsense. Do you not know what devout means?

>> No.12073128

>>12072665
If you actually got those trips I might have actually been convinced Satan himself wanted me to write that book

>> No.12073147

>>12072889
low iq poster confirmed

>> No.12073153

anger is a gift

>> No.12073303
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12073303

I thought Aurelius and the Stoics were more worried about fortune, death, and fate than gaining the favour of the gods. For them, the gods and nature (universe) are indistinguishable. That's all they ever seem to talk about, anyway

For an actually based Aurelius quote:
>Soon you will have forgotten the world, and soon the world will have forgotten you.

Also
>How many who came into this world with me already left it!
This might give you the impression that Marcus was a pussy-bitch bemoaning the facts of life, but this one always seems to hit me in the feels; especially given how powerful yet humble he was

>> No.12073312

>>12073303
*with me HAVE already left it

>> No.12073785

>>12072849

Not true at all. One of the most important principles in Meditations, especially considering that Aurelius was a Roman Emperor, is the concept that "whatever does not harm the community, does not harm the individual". Well, anything that harms an individual in a way that prevents them from aiding the community does, in fact, harm the community. And aggression in that vein is to be combated for the sake of civic obligation. Me calling you a faggot doesn't harm the community. Me cutting off your hands does.

>> No.12073803

Favorites from Aurelius

>This is what you deserve. You could be good today. But instead you choose tomorrow.

>Beautiful things of any kind are beautiful in themselves and sufficient to themselves. Praise is extraneous… Does anything genuinely beautiful need supplementing? No more than justice does; or truth, or kindness, or humility. Are any of those improved by being praised? Or damaged by contempt? Is an emerald suddenly flawed because no one admires it?

>A straightforward, honest person should be like someone who stinks: when you’re in the same room with him, you know it.

Seneca

>If you wish to be stripped of your vices you must get right away from the examples others set of them. The miser, the swindler, the bully, the cheat, who would do you a lot of harm by simply being near you, are actually inside you.

> ‘Come now,’ you will be asking, 'are you saying that I should forget a person who has been a friend?’ Well, you are not proposing to keep him very long in your memory if his memory is to last just as long as your grief.

Epictetus

>Don’t confuse qualities that are found in the same writer only incidentally. If Plato had been strong and handsome, should I also try to become strong and handsome, as if this were essential to philosophy, since there was one particular philosopher who combined philosophy with good looks? Can’t you tell the difference between what makes people philosophers and the qualities that are only found in them by chance?

>Don’t just say you have read books. Show that through them you have learned to think better, to be a more discriminating and reflective person. Books are the training weights of the mind. They are very helpful, but it would be a bad mistake to suppose that one has made progress simply by having internalized their contents.

Bonus Emerson Relevant

> We must have a basis for our higher accomplishments, our delicate entertainments of poetry and philosophy, in the work of our hands. We must have an antagonism in the tough world for all the variety of our spiritual faculties or they will not be born. Manual labor is the study of the external world. The advantage of riches remains with him who procured them, not with the heir.

>It is easy in the world to live after the world’s opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own; but the great man is he who in the midst of the crowd keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude.

>> No.12073840

the only way someone can believe in life if they have lived such a sheltered life an easy life they have never actually needed a god

if you've ever on life or death needed a god to help you, you know he doesnt exist

>> No.12075224

>>12073840
Try making sense next time

>> No.12075416
File: 15 KB, 220x298, 1538659036553.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] [report]
12075416

>>12072605
But what if devotion is the prime expression of a just life

>> No.12076935

>>12072656
>It's basic justice
Why should we have justice?

>> No.12077481

>>12072617
Given that we cannot know the nature of that potential creator of ours, it is wise to not potentially insult it by following any rituals or prayers that could go counter its preferences.

If there is such a creator, like an absent father who left before you could gain consciousness, then you should feel nothing towards him but apathy. All other feelings would probably cause more damage than good, both to your psyche and your potential afterlife.

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