/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.12049712]

Everyone's a fraud. Every single thing you do is in your own self interest or to make your selfish morality/conscience feel good.
There is no objectively"good" or "bad" morality/character.

Prove me wrong

[Anonymous No.12049715]

i can't

i can't prove you wrong

[Anonymous No.12049720]

>>12049712
Why does he wear the moustache? If I took it off would he die?

[Anonymous No.12049727]

>>12049712
There is nothing wrong with doing things in your own self interest. As long you are not harming someone and respecting your self self interest is a good thing to have.

[Anonymous No.12049732]

>>12049712
>being this much of a pseudo-intellectual
Read some egoist literature and then actually come back with a proper argument at least

[Anonymous No.12049753]

>>12049732
>stirnerfag
>calling someone else a pseud

[Anonymous No.12049764]

>>12049712
You prove I exist first.

[Anonymous No.12049768]

>>12049712
You're gonna think of this post a few years after you graduate high school and cringe

[Anonymous No.12049769]

>>12049712
ok mr cynic
wow i'm not a cynic anymore

[Anonymous No.12049770]

>>12049753
Shut up you fuckin spook

[Anonymous No.12049774]

yes, this is the modern condition. we are constantly being confronted by the fact that we are frauds. we are all lost in a world where there is no direction.

[Anonymous No.12049792]

>be at war
>throw yourself on a grenade to shield comrades
>feelsgoodman

[Anonymous No.12049796]

>>12049727
>As long you are not harming someone
You are harming many people right now with your inaction towards a more charitable cause like helping homeless person or an alcoholic get better help, or building a house for poor people in Africa, not finding a cure for any and all ailments/diseases that's affecting humanity right now. Tell me why are you so selfish when there is so much suffering?

[Anonymous No.12049799]

>>12049774
what would direction even look like?

[Anonymous No.12049806]

>>12049770
XD LE SPOOKS!!!

[Anonymous No.12049809]

>>12049799
needing to track your next meal down across the savannah

[Anonymous No.12049835]

>>12049712
There's no such thing as "good" or an "evil" once an individual truly Awakened; no facts, no systems, only one single linear path to God

[Anonymous No.12049842]

>>12049712
There's no such thing as "good" or "evil" once an individual has truly Awakened; no facts, no systems, only one single linear path to God

[Anonymous No.12049852]

>>12049809
Right, sustenance. Hopeless fight against death, existence is damn absurd.

[Anonymous No.12049912]

>>12049842
go on..

[Anonymous No.12049943]

>>12049712
works for me

[Anonymous No.12049984]

>>12049796
Tell me why they are so selfish as to be suffering in the first place? They aren't my responsibility and neither am i theirs.

[Anonymous No.12049988]

>>12049720
It would be extremely painful

[Anonymous No.12049996]

>>12049988
he looks jewish here

[Anonymous No.12050021]

>>12049712
First, you need to providence some sort of evidence for your statement, not us for the opposite. Second, we don't have to give a proof of objective morals just like we don't have to give a proof of the fact that something is yellow. Prima facie things like good and evil exist by intuition alone, just like yellow things. And if you try to appeal to the fact that different societies have differing views on good and evil just note that different primitive societies have had different views on the domains lumped under science but these have all been shown to be false.

[Anonymous No.12050037]

>>12050021
Are you implying you can get yellow wrong?

[Anonymous No.12050051]

>>12049712
Wow did you spend all morning thinking about this? You should do your homework on you might fail middle school, anon.

[Anonymous No.12050078]

>>12050037
The problem is that to prove (in the normal sense of the word) that something is yellow we would have to first define yellow, i.e. "A thing is yellow if and only if ..." but this is pretty hopeless. We could try to say that "A thing is yellow if and only if it emits light of wavelength x" ignoring that this isn't really how the physics works, but this runs into the problem that an ordinary person would have no problem recognizing things as yellow even with no idea of wavelengths by just looking at it. Now replace the word "yellow" with "good" and modify some parts and you should get the gist of what I am going for here.

When we say we know something we do not mean that we have absolute proof of it, and demanding this in some particular case is a surefire way to go wrong.

[Anonymous No.12050091]

>>12049984
would you rather be suffering? Are you saying you have contempt for the suffering because it's their own fault? You sir are sadist

[Anonymous No.12050102]

>>12049912
No anon, it can't be explained with words, this process is something that must be experienced to be fully understood

[Anonymous No.12050104]

>>12050078
OP is not saying good doesn't exist, just that the reason we call things "good" is because they are self serving.

[Anonymous No.12050205]

>>12049712
How is everyone a fraud when there are people who agree with that.

[Anonymous No.12050229]

>>12049712
>>Prove me wrong
Most people are unhappy.

[Anonymous No.12050249]

>>12049712
>steal purse
>get caught
>"what a bunch of frauds don't they know there is no objective morality"
The struggles of being a pseud.

[Anonymous No.12050285]

>>12050249
>provides petty crime as example for a subject as deep as morality
>circumstances and the plaintiffs motifs, mental health left out
You make such brilliant arguments. Surely you should pursue a degree in law or ethics

[Anonymous No.12050293]

>>12050249
Oh, stealing is always immoral under every circumstance?

[Anonymous No.12050508]

>>12049806
>being so retarded you dont get the joke

[Anonymous No.12050523]

>>12050285
>>12050293
t. purse-snatching pseuds

[Anonymous No.12050806]

I do things out of pure spite- not because it makes me feel good (it doesn't, I know I'm garbage.) To place people in a position of discomfort, the same discomfort I feel on a daily basis, gives them a reason to truly say that they are alive. To prevent someone from casting their filth into the street and instead make them writhe in it is the only just action. This does not make me happy, as I receive nothing from it, but it is necessary in order for one to experience life.

[Anonymous No.12050821]

>>12049712
I don't want to prove you wrong.

[Anonymous No.12050880]

>>12049720
If you ate as much pussy as he did, you'd know.

[Anonymous No.12050914]

>>12049792
>be at war
>throw yourself on a grenade to shield comrades
>comrades comment on how you always have to make everything about you
>last words you hear are comrades saying they never really liked you anyway

[Anonymous No.12051491]

>>12049988
You’re an Übermensch.

[Anonymous No.12052140]

>>12049988
For him.>>12049720

[Anonymous No.12052170]

>>12049712
There have been a few extremely high IQ people capable of true empathy in world history. For example Jesus, Kant and Hitler.

[Anonymous No.12052601]

>>12052170
>high IQ people
>Hitler
thanks for ruining the thread

[Anonymous No.12052637]

>>12049712
Suppose you and I are only casual acquaintances who are stranded in a lifeboat in
the ocean and are waiting for rescuers to fi nd us. I have managed to bring along a quantity
of food and water, but you have none. Suppose further that you are an ethical egoist. What
moral advice should you give me? If you tell me that I only have an obligation to serve my
own interests, then I should keep the food and water for myself and let you die. On the
other hand, if you want to live, then you will tell me that I have a moral obligation to
sacrifi ce some of my resources for your sake. But this statement would require you to
renounce your ethical egoism.

[Anonymous No.12052645]

>>12049712
it is objectively wrong to wedgie your grandmother

[Anonymous No.12052837]

>I am a fraud. Every single thing I do is in my own self interest or to make my selfish morality/conscience feel good.

Fixed that for you. You are describing your own view of the world, and unable to imagine any other alternative, project that into other people's minds, assuming that they must think the same basic way as you.

[Anonymous No.12052854]

>>12049715
protip: you can't

[Anonymous No.12052859]

>>12049712
Everyone who has sacrificed themselves or placed themselves at mortal risk for others is objective evidence that you are wrong.

[Anonymous No.12052863]

>>12049753
stirner is anti pseud. he is as basic and fundamental as a thought can be. he is an animal describing itself with 100% honesty

[Anonymous No.12052875]

>>12051491
For me.

[Anonymous No.12052881]

>>12050806
based. should we pass one another on the street, i hope you'll kick dirt my eyes and remind me what life is

[Anonymous No.12052897]

>>12049720
That mustache has slain bears. It has conqored mountains, marched with noble Prussian regiments, discussed nobility and virtue in gilded salons. What do you have on your face to match it? It was the source of Nietzche's power. There's a whole theory about it.

[Anonymous No.12052898]

>>12052859
meh, it was still objectively their subjective decision to do so. His point still stands. There is no selfless act.

[Anonymous No.12053149]

>>12049792
>throw yourself on a grenade because you know youre all about to die anyways so you might as well have a better gravestone than the mcnamaras morons next to you

[Anonymous No.12053156]

>>12052897
>>>/r/eddit

faggot

[Anonymous No.12053157]

>>12049712
another brainlet reading Nietzsche exoterically

what a fucking surprise

[Anonymous No.12053385]

>>12049796
I don't have money anon.

[Anonymous No.12053395]

>>12052637
thats using ethical egoism and deceit together you fuckinh numbskull

[Anonymous No.12053422]

>>12049796
It doesn’t feel important

[Anonymous No.12053640]

>>12052637
Based brainlet

[Anonymous No.12054679]

>>12052837
>I am describing my own view of the world, and I am unable to imagine any other alternative, project that into other people's minds, assuming that they must think the same basic way as I do
Fixed that for you. You must not know what egoism means.

[Anonymous No.12054689]

Der Doppelgänger

[Anonymous No.12054695]

>>12054689
eh eh
Nietzsche and Maupassant look very much the same, I noticed that already. I think Nietzsche is on the right, on your pic.

[Anonymous No.12054707]

>>12050293
If you've actually read Nietzsche and just aren't shitposting like a brainlet, then YES. At the very beginning of Beyond Good and Evil he talks about the two morality systems.

The 1st, the consequence/results morality. Do a thing, if it leads to a bad consequence, you've done bad.

With the development of man we went to the Intent morality instead. Do a bad thing, well, if it leads to bad results, who cares as long as the intent of the doer wasn't bad.

He spends time ripping on intent morality for being brainlet and you can see its fruits today with modern western "justice" systems where rights of criminals are given more respect than the privacy of their victims with lots of people comitting heinous crimes and only getting thrown away for 4 months because "they wuz good bois"

All the worst philosophical systems measure by intent, and not results. It's why you see brainlets like zizek justify gulalgs because "the intent behind gommunism was good they was good bois"

[Anonymous No.12054718]

>>12052863
>Anti-pseud
>Calls everything he disagrees with a spook

[Anonymous No.12054738]

>>12050249
>steal bread to feed your family
Ethical dilemma right there in your “steal is bad” argument.

[Anonymous No.12054799]

>>12049712
I'm not sure if this makes sense but I'll give it a shot. You are trying to imply a universal objective claim, but your universal claim is based on good and bad being subjectivity. So your view is entirely subjective making it impossible to create objective statements, showing that it is false.

[Anonymous No.12054828]

>>12054707
Lmao mens rea is a requirement for 95% of crimes in the United States. Reckless, knowing, or intentional. Criminal negligence is implemented for things that the government wants to make money from like traffic tickets and drunk driving. It’s hilarious. As someone that works in criminal defense I love making the argument of “he didn’t mean to so you can’t prove he violated the statute”. But in general I agree that ends should triumph over the means. Thinking means nothing unless something happens from it. The end result of your actions should be the focus. Kant was a fucking idiot.

[Anonymous No.12054923]

>>12054828
Is intent vs result really the same as ends vs means? They seem similar but not the same.

But yes our entire legal system is built upon intent. I kind of wish there was a religion that wasn't about intent but results, it goes back to Christianity

[Anonymous No.12054961]

>>12049712
>Every single thing you do is in your own self interest or to make your selfish morality/conscience feel good
>There is no objectively"good" or "bad" morality/character.

I agree with the latter because morality is culturally relative but don't see how it informs or proves the former. Humans and even others animals frequently do things that neglect their own self interests either for the sake of or against others, sometimes rather regularly.

[Anonymous No.12055423]

>>12049720
No one cared for who he was, until he grew the mustache.

[Anonymous No.12055940]

>>12049712
i work hard to help humanity not go extinct so that one day when the universe runs out and god comes in and rewinds the tape and sees how far we got in withstanding his test (time) he'll revive us all and let us live in paradise
a-am i a fraud?

[Anonymous No.12056069]

>>12049712
>Every single thing you do is in your own self interest or to make your selfish morality/conscience feel good.
I disagree on just one regard, the "selfish morality/conscience" and that's because of empathy. Not just the empty lip service to empathy that people talk about when they want to feel good about themselves or make others feel bad, but the feeling when you see someone suffering and want it to stop, not to be to stop it and thus prove your worth to others or yourself, but simply because you feel bad. The feeling when you suddenly feel bad for someone you hate or should hate. Being able to understand and sympathise with someone even though you think they've done wrong. The kind of empathy that makes the world less simple and leaves you confused about who's "right" and "wrong". Empathy that's not a soft cosy feeling but hard and sharp and unpleasant.

I don't believe in objective good/bad morality, and this kind of empathy is selfish in a way too, as it still has an emotional benefit. But I believe I value it as the one thing in the world I think of as "good". But that's just how I've chosen to live.

[Anonymous No.12056717]

>>12049796
Kill yourself spooked anon
Let the african kids die, who gives a fuck

[Anonymous No.12058194]

>>12056717
Finally some sanity, thank you anon

[Anonymous No.12058214]

>>12054707
i am a very incompetent man, hence my actions would undoubtedly cause suffering and thus i have taken the moral decision to stay inside my room and browse the internet all day.

[Anonymous No.12058226]

>>12049712

yea but at the end of the day we are all fucking losers on 4chan and people who dont agree w that statement are mostly happier and more successful

[Anonymous No.12058229]

>>12056069

yea except some of us dont have the privilege of feeling empathy
like we are born without the part of the brain that feels empathy

[Anonymous No.12058231]

>>12052863

humans r animals

[Anonymous No.12058554]

>>12049712
>Prove me wrong
I don't need to.

[Anonymous No.12058573]

>>12058229
isnt this being a psychopath
might be useful in some ways, become a gun dealer or something

[Anonymous No.12058594]

>>12058573

yea i guess but im probably autistic also n sometimes its hard to pretend to have empathy. like sometimes im too tired to give a fuck about my mask and forget to react appropriately, then my covers blown and everyone avoids me
im also not rly motivated by money that much, the only thing i care about is pursuing my autistic hobbies

[Anonymous No.12059861]

>>12052637
low power post