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/lit/ - Literature

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11978525 No.11978525 [Reply] [Original]

Where do I start with Gnosticism?

>> No.11978531

The Gospel of John, followed by Thomas

>> No.11978533

Against the Gnostics by Plotinus

>> No.11978535

followed by Phillip

>> No.11978541

>>11978533
I meant pro-Gnosticism

>> No.11978544

Plato's Parmenides, Timaeus, then this (>>11978533), and afterwards St. Augustine's Confessions

>> No.11978551

>>11978544
Then after that go to your priest and confess your vile interest in gnosticism

>> No.11978556

>>11978551
Bump

>> No.11978591

>>11978525
in the trash

>> No.11978598

You gotta start with the Pre-Socratics. Then you get over to Plato, and carefully read some of his most important dialogues (The Apology of Socrates, Meno, Phaedo, Gorgias, The Republic, Parmenides, Theaetetus, The Sophist, Timaeus). Once you're done with that, you should go ahead and read The Bible. After you get through with that, you should skim through the Corpus Hermeticum and the Gnostic Gospels. You should spend time reading Plotinus' Enneads and St. Augustine's Confessions (as suggested above) and come to realize it was just a juvenile trifle interest, nothing which could ever bring you true knowledge or wisdom.
One day you will come to realize that all mystic cults are really not that different, and that magic is merely hope and empty wishes. Incantations to the sacred words of the holy creator serve no purpose, and all that you can do with your hands, legs, arms is all which you will ever be able to do.
Therefore, live not thinking of imaginary worlds where all of your wishes can be fulfilled, but instead focus on the ground beneath you.

>> No.11978872
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11978872

>>11978598
imagine being THIS spiritually stunted

>> No.11978955

>thread immediately filled with seething christians
Read the Nag Hammabi

>> No.11978964

>>11978872
your a special kinda dumb

>> No.11978968

>>11978955
>Christianity is the boogey man
lol

>> No.11978976

>>11978968
Are you implying that the biggest anti-gnostics aren’t christians?

>> No.11978982

>>11978955
Based. All these posters recommending Augustine? That's a yikes from me.
>>11978964
Not based. Proper understanding of the gnostics will indeed reveal to you how retarded their specific cosmology is, but how right they were that there is in fact a secret gnosis, a hidden knowledge to be had.

>> No.11979013

>>11978982
Yeah... And that Gnosis was revealed with the Son, Christ.
=\.. This is why Gnostics deny that Jesus was a real man.

>>11978976
Atheists are actually, but then I would say Christians are.

>> No.11979023

>>11978525
>Where do I start with Gnosticism?
live your whole life by the beat of your own drum.
improvise if you have to.

>> No.11979029

>>11979013
Yes. The gnosis is the revealed knowledge of Christ's Sonship, as demonstrated by Peter in Matthew 16:16-17.

>> No.11979036

>>11979013
I feel like most atheists and most modern people in general aren't even more than vaguely aware of gnosticism, and certainly don't crusade against it.
I remember in my edgy atheist /b/ years people would discuss gnosticism specifically as a high level of confidence, as in all of those gnostic/agnostic christian/atheist charts. /lit/ was my first exposure to gnosticism as the independent mystery cult stuff, and I was raised Catholic. They weren't concerned about defending us against it because most people live their entire lives without learning anything about it.

>> No.11979042

>>11979023
I do not see where your view and my view diverge anon.

>>11979023
This isn't a gnostic specific way of life, Gnosticism actually shoehorns you in to a very specific life style, with the deification process that will affect the many aspects of your life. It's not a very liberating religion in any sense.

>> No.11979054

>>11979036
>I feel like most atheists and most modern people in general aren't even more than vaguely aware of gnosticism, and certainly don't crusade against it.
Atheists deny God, to have an Atheist converse about Gnosticism is laughable. They would deny outright every claim the Gnostic makes, A Christian would try to show the right way, and lead them to the correct understanding of God.
I'm simply stating here an Atheist's view point denies it completely. A Christian sees it as a misguided perspective.

>> No.11979065

>>11979029
I do not see where your view and my view diverge anon.

>> No.11979083

>>11979042
depends on how literally you take it. simpler to see it as a roundabout way of encouraging people to be inwardly orientated in how they live life. instead of being externally focused on the community, focus inwardly to find the spark which we all share etc

>> No.11979084

>>11979054
>misguided perspective
antithetical perspective. One’s god is the other’s devil

>> No.11979095

>>11979054
The point the other anon was originally trying to make is that atheists don't have that conversation in the first place because they've probably never even heard of gnosticism in the sense we're talking about. Christians seek out heresies to rail against them, always have and always will. Today's edgy atheist rails against currently popular world religions.

>> No.11979096

>>11979084
>antithetical
No it's not tho, it's of the Same God, It's literally malformed dichotomy.

>>11979083
If you think that's the perspective to use, then the Bible is literally better in every single way.

>> No.11979103

>>11979095
I understand the perspective, it's just a very dim witted position to make in argument .

>> No.11979129

>>11978872
Plotinus was so spiritually powerful though he reflected curses, checkmate atheist.

>> No.11979221

>>11979065
I don't think they do, I was just clarifying my thought.
>>11979129
umm I'm Christian sweetie try again xD

>> No.11979242

>>11979221
You said my view was unbased, I am confused.

>> No.11979262

>>11979096
>No it's not tho, it's of the Same God
No it isn’t? Gnostics scorn the creator christians worships

>> No.11979278

>>11979242
I'm confused now. I meant the anti-mystic attitude in >>11978598 is unbased, in that it seems to discount the mystic search for the revelation of Jesus Christ and claims that "nothing... could ever bring you true knowledge or wisdom," when the Holy Spirit certainly can.

>> No.11979309

>>11979262
It is the same God anon, they even deify Christ. My God is the Soveriegn God.
The Gnostics break down the soveriegn nature into other deities, and use a system of dualities to convey their system.
They claim YHWH is some evil creator God, who stole from the True God. But the God of Christianity is not evil, he is pure, he is the Creator of all - not just "reality". It is a malformed system of YHWH.

>> No.11979320

>>11979278
Oh honey.. >>11978598 does not refute spirituality, nor is it anti-mystic. The Revelation of Christ is in the Bible it is not a mystery to be solved.
Nothing can bring you true knowledge or wisdom, that is true, and true it must be revealed to you by the Spirit, but the context is obviously not about the spirit, its about man-man mystic systems.

>> No.11979330

>>11979320
Sure, with those clarifications I'll sign onto this.

>> No.11979383
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11979383

>>11978598
Basedest and reddest of pills.
Might I add that in the search for meaning the most gifted seeker will eventually reach a point (or more appropriately put, evolve into a state of mind) where he can look down and for the first time truly appreciate that ground beneath his feet. This does not discredit the search, in fact it makes it all the more necessary.
There is no destination, only unfoldment.

>> No.11979410

>>11979383
>There is no destination, only unfoldment.
There are no folds, just placement.

>> No.11979442

>>11979309
>They claim YHWH is some evil creator God, who stole from the True God. But the God of Christianity is not evil, he is pure, he is the Creator of all - not just "reality". It is a malformed system of YHWH.
So you basically admitted that Gnostics do have an antithesical view of YHWH from christians but just brush it off as a flawed view. Regardless of whether you think gnostic viewpoints are poor or not, it is a matter of fact that they have a complete inverse view of the creator as christians. I don’t understand why must you insert misconceptions and preaching?

>> No.11979554

>>11979442
Not the anon you responded to, but I think the Gnostic view is that the creator of the material world is faulty, thus the deity of the old testament they view as the Demiurge. But it can be endlessly debated whether this is anti-christian or not. The average member of a congregation would obviously see this as the gnostics being anti-yhwh, in many ways the gnostics were simply against what they considered to be the limitations of matter, and that which constrained spirit to matter, would in itself be tyrannical. I think to say the gnostics are anti-god would be a mistake. I'm not versed in Gnostic philosophy though, and I'm not sure what they're view on mans Fall was, as this is the most important factor: was man "imprisoned" into matter by a tyrannical being as punishment?

>> No.11979626

>>11979554
>I think to say the gnostics are anti-god would be a mistake.
But I didn’t say that at all

>was man "imprisoned" into matter by a tyrannical being as punishment?
Nah it is more of a mistake than punishment

>> No.11979665

>>11979442
No, Gnostics still seek after the 'highest', but they lay to claim that our ruler, creator is the Demiurge. They say Christians worship this Demiurge, and not the true creator.

We Christians understand that our God is the highest (Soveriegn). The seek our God, but do not know how to come to him. Other than Gnosis(Revelation, Christ).

You simply do not understand both perspectives.

>>11979626
No, not a mistake, Gnostics say it was a purposeful act, with power that was stolen.

>> No.11980030
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11980030

>>11979383
>evolve
>state of mind
pic. it's you.

>>11978598
ur a dope tho f'real kid. in all your reading (which i doubt actually happened) you never discovered the metaphysical root of what makes all creation essential? i recommend reading it all again, but believing in God this time.

>>11978525
>>11978531
fpbp. but honestly don't bother. it's interesting to the anthropologist, but unless you really have a personal interest in antique cults just come to Jesus my dude

>> No.11981365

bump

>> No.11981389

>>11978598
So you returned to bitter materialism. Just like everyone else. Congrats.

>> No.11981424

>>11981389
That's what I thought but >>11979320 is how he explained himself.

>> No.11981511

>>11978598
>Incantations to the sacred words of the holy creator serve no purpose, and all that you can do with your hands, legs, arms is all which you will ever be able to do.

There it is. Catholics are Atheists. Atheists are Catholics. They themselves proudly admit it.

>> No.11981558

>>11981511

They are IDENTICAL even in their smallest or most fanciful details. Atheist Biology IS Catholic Transubstantiation.

>> No.11981650

>>11978525
Start with a burning ember of hatred for god in your heart. Everything else flows forth from there.

>> No.11982077

bump

>> No.11982688

>>11981650
Cringe

>> No.11983142

>>11982688
That's literally the truth though. There's no point in pursuing gnosticism if you don't hate god.

>> No.11983676
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11983676

Demian and a book I got called The Gnostics which is kind of a historical study filled with images/symbols.
The eggbird. The great mother. We are here to suffer.

>> No.11983689

>>11981650
>>11983142
t. Irenaeus

>> No.11983809

>>11978525
I ctrl-f'd and didn't see anybody recommending Elaine Pagels's work. Her book, The Gnostic Gospels, is a great place to start.

>> No.11983834

>>11983809
Is there an equivalent written by a man?

>> No.11984079

>>11983834
kys incel

>> No.11984127

>>11984079
Huh?

>> No.11984881

bump

>> No.11985527

>>11978525
nofap
then realize that the material world is actually pretty innocent if you've broken free from the cycle of material suffering