NPC Paradox

[Anonymous No.11898766]

Books for this feel?
>Bicameral Mind explains why this meme had such a negative reaction. The NPC can only process one segment of the brain at a time, and cannot efficiently combine what is perceived with its abstraction and secondary representation into a single form - as the great writer of metaphors can, for instance. The NPC is incapable of replicating the image as representative form, so rejects dualism outright. It either mimics what is already prefigured in the image, or shuts down when the information contained within the image exceeds its processing capacity; and this is especially true for NPCs stuck with single-core processors. A meme with a singular idea can simply be rejected outright, and thus has little opposition, but the dualistic meme forces a paradox as the opposition is contained within it as an ironic self-critique. The single-core NPC is incapable of defragmenting the two separate abstractions within a single process. This is why the NPC crashes at the sight of such a meme: it is like a virus in its NavMesh.

[Anonymous No.11898777]

me on bottom left

[Anonymous No.11898806]

>>11898777
That's not good. Better take a simple one.

[Anonymous No.11898822]

>>11898806
Ha! The ordering/layout of that glasses meme has been bugging me for days. Glad someone is making fun of it.

>>11898766
Give it a rest. p-zombies are played out.

[Anonymous No.11898832]

>>11898822
>MEIN GOTT!

[Anonymous No.11899136]

Neolibs at /his/ apparently despise this meme. Must say something important if it is so divisive.

[Anonymous No.11899174]

>>11898766

I'm not as deep into this site or righty thought as people who post here every day are likely to be, so I'm not going to address the entirety of the NPC notion.

However, one part that I will address is that it is pretty silly to think that one political side or the other is more prone to whatever the fuck it is.

I'm so liberal that liberals get touchy about it, I read a few hundred (mostly high-level) books a year, I sure as shit have an internal dialogue (sometimes to the extent that it can be excessive and emotionally crippling), and most of the modern art and literature that I have enjoyed came from leftwing people.

Whether or not it does, I'm not saying that this makes me better or different. I'm just saying that no type of person only exists on one side.

Furthermore, I'd like to point out that the thoughts and positions that you think prove that your side is actually thinking and bucking the system are thoughts and positions that the majority of people have espoused throughout history. In the big picture, they don't make you an outlier.

Lastly, the reason that it pushes people's buttons is because it dehumanizes the other and, throughout history, when people who have power (like the right in the US) start dehumanizing their enemies, fucked up shit tends to transpire afterwards.

[Anonymous No.11899199]

>>11899174
top keke. I just saw the videos of the protests against the Kav. Lefites were calling rightwing videographers subhuman. The entire opposition is "nazis" so its only right to dehumanize them. Remember to punch the nazi. You are dehumanizing the other as much as we are, you're just too dumb to see it apparently, which makes the NPC meme pretty apt pal.

[Anonymous No.11899212]

Is anyone gonna recommend books for this? I honestly don't understand, I've read Chalmers and Dennet but I'm still not sure what any of this NPC shit means.

[Anonymous No.11899223]

>>11899174
Firstly, there are differences between humans which cause them to think in left and right ideologies. However, this is mostly an effect of the current system and turning that natural schism into a pathology.
I am also not left or right, and this meme could be seen as attempting to resolve such a conflict within memes themselves. It is neither pure reaction nor overdetermined explanation, it basically walks the line.
Unfortunately we are domesticated beings, and this extreme schism is the natural course for a system which attempts to create humans without any identity. It is horrifying in a way, but those who reveal this reality are not responsible for the system's trick. Although we can attempt to take a passive religious position the real difficult response, and the right one I think, is to attempt to reconcile the schizophrenic identity which has become the rites and mores of a society completely out of control.
Offsetting catastrophe is essentially the law of liberal governance, it is a negative system and essentially works like revolution in reverse. Which is why we have come to the madness of socialist realism at the end of the cycle. The old society is dead, and now people are scrambling to try and figure out the new order.

[Anonymous No.11899235]

>>11899174
>>>/pol/
Nobody gives a shit about "muh dehumanization", you're a nazi plain and simple. And Nazis get punched.

[Anonymous No.11899246]

>>11899212
NPC is just someone trapped in circular reasoning loops. So instead of the national conversation being about Kavanaugh's role in creating the Patriot Act, it was politically charged sexual assault allegations. Its a diversionary tactic that needs brainwashed masses and constant fighting between two sides.

[Anonymous No.11899247]

>>11899235

[Anonymous No.11899256]

>>11899246
The thing is that it wasn't the right trying to distract you from their own candidate's past, the distraction came from the left because it was (seemingly) in the left's best interest to push that distraction. The system is furthered and reinforced through the competition it itself engenders.

[Anonymous No.11899259]

>>11899199
Learn what in power means and come back.

[Anonymous No.11899269]

>>11899259
>he thinks the fact that people with Rs next to their names are in most elected positions means their side is "in power"

[Anonymous No.11899271]

>>11899246
No, it's very real. People are the dumbest they have ever been. And the only reason for believing in something like a singularity is because people have extricated all thought into technology. They are already dumber than machines. The singularity occurred in 1916.

[Anonymous No.11899272]

>>11899256
I didn't say it was. The distraction was from the power-brokers, who don't care about left-vs-right, only about their own position. They play both sides. The tactic would only work if the Left thought it was in their best interest to push it, and it was in their interests somewhat, but more importantly in the interests of people more powerful.

[Anonymous No.11899292]

>>11899272
I think you're giving the puppeteers too much credit with regards to their predictive power over mass opinion. They couldn't have known the rape allegations would have backfired the way they did in the public eye. Kavanaugh wasn't supposed to get voted in, he was supposed to go down in a blaze of #metoo unsubstantiated rape accusations while making Trump and the Republicans look like rape apologists right before the midterms. Kavanaugh getting through and the Republican base getting fired up was not in the plan.

[Anonymous No.11899293]

>>11899259
>you may only use my definition of a term
Learn to not be a gay twerp and come back.
>>11899271
These sound like pseudo-philosophical platitudes from blogs. People aren't dumb, average IQ increases with time and development, they are kept distracted and apathetic to the real ills of the world. NPCS are stuck in a pseudo reality, not technological but social. I've seen geniuses abandon all thought and care for the world in favor of donuts and TV shows. I'm fairly certain this Nick Land gnostic technological-mumbo jumbo is probably fostered by the same power brokers, or at least encouraged.

[Anonymous No.11899296]

>>11899269

The people in power are sure as shit closer to the side of "I'm not alt-right, nor have I ever even heard of the term"' folks than it is to my side. I mean, y'all did a good job in 2016, and while I'd rather refrain from fun kinky and deviant sex for a 4 year period than have Trump in power for the same time period, you guys did it. Don't be bashful about it. You won.

[Anonymous No.11899302]

>>11899293

>twerp

What a boomer

[Anonymous No.11899310]

[Anonymous No.11899316]

>>11899296
>"I'm totally too left to be a liberal" liberals actually believe that the people in charge are crypto-nazis

[Anonymous No.11899317]

>>11899292
I'm not giving them too much, I don't think they have as much as you assume I do. Its probable they didn't expect the backlash, at least to the extent it happened, but they predicted the story would entirely consume the national conversation so that no one would be discussing the Patriot Act, which worked beautifully. You only have to have so much predictive power over mass opinion when you also control the most advanced and successful brainwashing machines devised by man.

[Anonymous No.11899326]

>>11899310
I've seen eyes that aren't glassy. Npc distinction is mostly the old class system re-emerging from the chaotic mess of class mongrelization.
Some inherited lower class consciousness. Some inherited the noble and some the royal.

[Anonymous No.11899330]

>>11899292
Let's not make this a left/right politics thread.
>>11899212
I would say just read up on human behaviour, anthropology, and Dostoevsky. Also sit back and listen, watch people and the strange things they do.
A major aspects of cities is that most people only live in very simplistic geometric patterns, they hardly interact with their environment at all. And an old study suggests that this on-rails behaviour also exists in the abstract, with most only experiencing the city in triangular patterns plotted out on a map. This has profound effects on the psyche and the mores of these people will undoubtedly degrade over time.

[Anonymous No.11899332]

>>11899316

No, I believe that, while one occasionally does things that I like, we have a center-right party and a right-right party, both of which are beholden to rich fucks who should be eliminated. I think that the people ostensibly closer to your side are not unwilling to use literal nazis to meet their ends, even if they usually prefer that they keep the actual swastikas at home because they are aesthetic fags.

[Anonymous No.11899344]

>>11899293
You are naive. Plus you dumb down the argument and then bitch when someone offers introductory remarks. How can you be so blind to your own position?
Clear low-level NPC behaviour. An NPC would have at least tried to come up with a shitty counter-argument.

[Anonymous No.11899345]

>>11899330

>Let's not make

I hear you, but it's kind of hard to completely avoid that when discussing an idea that is coming from a sector of the right.

>Dostoevsky

Have you read his Writer's Diary? I feel like it's the key to his work, even if some of the things behind the door that it unlocks are things that most of the people who read him would rather not see. The 5 volume Frank bio is pretty helpful too.

[Anonymous No.11899347]

>>11899317
The people who fund the left are generally not the same people who fund the right, both have divergent interests which is why they're funding different "sides" in the first places.

>>11899332
>"I'm totally too left to be a liberal" liberals actually believe that we have a right wing party despite the fact that both parties openly worship egalitarian human rights while all of human history save for the past 70 years has been filled with unapologetic ethnic genocide

[Anonymous No.11899351]

>>11899345
I have not, but I am guessing it would be similar to The House of the Dead, which shows his incredible perception of other people.

[Anonymous No.11899354]

>>11899344
Not an argument. You said people are the dumbest they've ever been, which is directly disputed by the evidence which shows IQ is increasing. You're the one bitching like a faggo NPC.

[Anonymous No.11899360]

>>11899347
Except they both support the Patriot Act and interventionism and international banking and the Federal Reserve, etc. Caring about social differences isn't real opposition. Taking sides is the most important smokescreen.

[Anonymous No.11899365]

>>11899354
>muh data determinism
KYS.

[Anonymous No.11899366]

>>11899347
>thinks that I care what I'm labelled as more than what I am
is a boomer
>thinks avoiding genocide is somehow a bad thing
>brought Trump to power but is still pissy and aggrieved
>somehow thinks that the lack of an openly constantly genocidal party means that he is an oppressed fag.

[Anonymous No.11899374]

>>11899360
Indeed. Both parties are right wing in many of the ways that count most. They both want their boot on your head. One of them just wants to make it look a little better while stomping you in the mud.

[Anonymous No.11899380]

I traded lit for lit/twitter awhile ago.

I'm starting to get this meme, but does it have anything to do with this whole capital is sentient shit.

Also, really trying not to derail, but does the solar flare have anything to do with this??

[Anonymous No.11899386]

>>11899365
>muh nebulous memeing pseodo-philosophy
>muh obscurity is intelligence
What a sad hipster you are. Go read Land and watch gaypornos with fashwave soundtracks.

[Anonymous No.11899388]

>>11899351

Indeed. I saved it for last because it's like 1500 pages of mostly non-fiction. His politics changed somewhat in the interim, but he actually expounds upon what he was getting at with HoTD quite a bit.

That said, it's way more fucking dry.

[Anonymous No.11899401]

>>11899386
>i'm right because muh SCIENTISM
Keep telling yourself that.
Also, not an argument.

[Anonymous No.11899404]

>>11899365
Empirical evidence is the only common ground on which our reality is based. If you reject that then you're willfully choosing to live in some imaginary construct guided by your own wish fulfillment and insecurities. That's just pathetic, anon

[Anonymous No.11899410]

>>11898766
I wonder how big the Eliott Rodger-fan/NPC believer crossover is.

[Anonymous No.11899411]

>>11899401
IQ is ultimately sociology, which isn't a real science. It is, however, much better than creating a meme philosophy that requires your belief and is broken down whenever some nebulous and irrational claim meets basic reason and evidence.
>not an argument
>also didn't post an argument
NPC-tier.

[Anonymous No.11899423]

>>11899360
I see anti-establishment types always cry about the Patriot Act, but they don't realize that it's really the only way someone in office could feasibly change things. What's stopping a president from indefinitely imprisoning every member of congress, every uppity federal judge, and really anyone who could feasibly oppose him? It would all be legal, after all.

>>11899366
Stop being a whiny fucking moralizing faggot., this is why people don't like talking to you guys. I didn't say anywhere that genocide was good or bad, I didn't say anywhere that I like or dislike Trump, I didn't say anywhere that I'm "oppressed" or even hint at it. You said that the US has a moderately right wing an a solidly right wing party. In what fucking context? Certainly not from a historical one, or even an international one. You look at any point in history prior to the last 70s years and you'll find a lot more right wing policies, to the point that even left wing parties of the time pursued what would now be considered right wing policies. The Founding Fathers of the US were positively the most radical of the radical in their time period and they had no problem enslaving people and enacting explicitly discriminatory policies while calling it equality. Does that mean I want to literally enslave people? No, it means I'm calling you out for being flat out wrong.

[Anonymous No.11899438]

>>11899423
>In what fucking context? Certainly not from a historical one, or even an international one. You look at any point in history prior to the last 70s years and you'll find a lot more right wing policies, to the point that even left wing parties of the time pursued what would now be considered right wing policies.
Lmao did you forget two Red Scares and the McGovern presidency bid?

[Anonymous No.11899441]

>>11899423
Cool story, bro. Though, I would suggest that calling genocide and slavery right wing things is probably not going to help win the pr war.

[Anonymous No.11899449]

>>11899411
>i know you are but what am i
>people aren't dumb
>MUH IQ
Look at this fucking dude. >>11899293

This isn't complex, anyone can go read letters from soldiers a hundred years ago and see that the common man was far more artistic and insightful than anyone in academia today. You are just a scrap NPC.

[Anonymous No.11899455]

>>11899404
Haha, okay. Holy fuck redditors destroyed this place.

[Anonymous No.11899466]

>>11899449

The common man could barely read 100-200 years ago.

[Anonymous No.11899470]

>>11899438
Well yeah, you don't even have to look 300 years ago to find truly right wing acts. Just 50 years ago we had McCarthyism. You'd never seen the modern Republican Party do such a thing today, they've (and the window of discourse) has moved too far left. They've lost their illiberally right tendencies and been swallowed up by the liberalizing mass of Capital. Right wing doesn't exist anymore on an establishment level beyond a couple of fringe elements.

>>11899441
I don't give a shit about winning a pr war. This has got nothing to do with pr you stupid window-licker. The truth of the matter is that those are right wing policies, and they're policies that nowadays are so far out of the window of discourse that you'd be positively blacklisted and eventually elected out. Nobody is calling for aristocracy or formal class stratification, nobody is calling for ethnic genocide, nobody is calling for slavery; there is no right wing in the political establishment of modern America.

[Anonymous No.11899471]

>>11899410
>FUCKING INCEL VIRGINS
: (You)

[Anonymous No.11899474]

>>11899455
I'd be interested in hearing any sort of substantive rebuttal to my statements.

[Anonymous No.11899475]

>>11899466
In irrelevant countries.

[Anonymous No.11899480]

>>11899470
>You'd never seen the modern Republican Party do such a thing today, they've (and the window of discourse) has moved too far left. They've lost their illiberally right tendencies and been swallowed up by the liberalizing mass of Capital. Right wing doesn't exist anymore on an establishment level beyond a couple of fringe elements.
But the time for such acts weren’t needed. But both Red Scares seared any Left in US politics and the complete failure of McGovern’s presidency forced Democrats to move right. No one is arguing for New Deal style programs anymore.

[Anonymous No.11899489]

>>11899475
Like the US and most of Europe you mean? Because that's the way it was 200 years ago.

[Anonymous No.11899491]

>>11899480
Yet USA is more divided than ever before, including the Civil War. Interesting phenomenon this tower of Babel.

[Anonymous No.11899499]

>>11899474
There's no rebuttal for idiocies and personal attacks. All you're saying is that science is all that exists.
Okay, you have an opinion, great. There's no arguing with idiots like you. You're a clear NPC caught in a NavMesh glitch.

[Anonymous No.11899500]

>>11899491
Your low tier hot take doesn’t undermine my point that the presence of the Left is very minor though. Republicans and Democrats need to be hostile to one another to keep the populace divided and weakened.

[Anonymous No.11899505]

>>11899347
The people who fund the left are very much the same people on the donor lists of the right.
>>11899360
Indeed.
The deep state is just the people and incentives that exist below the level of elected officials. The only way that has been changing is as growth. It is always there; making Clinton, Bush, Obama, and it seems even Trump basically do all the same things.

>>11899401
I think you've got it with this one.

>>11899470
Well, I'm mean you're on 4chan right now. But nobody else really.

[Anonymous No.11899511]

>>11899466
Keep revealing your idiocy.
Also, name a work of science within the top 100,000 of cultural works. Pro tip: you can't.

[Anonymous No.11899519]

>>11899500
I'm not undermining your point mate. The demographic change is enough to make for the stark difference.

[Anonymous No.11899524]

>>11899511
hard to understand your munged up phrasing, but I'm gonna go with On the Revolutions of the Celestial Spheres, shit piece

[Anonymous No.11899525]

>>11899480
The Red Scares seared the left, that's why the #2 presidential candidate for the Democrats is an open Marxist while the Republicans would be eviscerated if a similar analogue occurred with, say, an open fascist. No one's arguing for New Deal programs because the New Deal already happened. I don't see any serious support for ending Social Security.

[Anonymous No.11899534]

>>11899499
I'm not saying it's all that exists kiddo, I'm saying that it's the baseline on which we have to agree upon in order to come to any sort of rational conclusion about the world we live in. I'm saying that willfully rejecting empirical evidence is a rejection of the desire see the world as it actually is and not as one entirely guided by subjective anecdotal experiences and ideological stances. Obviously not everyone is going to agree on the implications of reality, or how to best deal with it, there's still a place in the world for philosophy and ideology. But those things should be based on reality.

[Anonymous No.11899537]

>>11898766
this board is unbrowsable now because of /pol/ and twitter

[Anonymous No.11899543]

>>11899537
/pol/ was always here you faggot, the problem is the reddit transplants who took over /pol/ and then the whole site.

[Anonymous No.11899548]

>>11899543
fuckin boomers

[Anonymous No.11899553]

>>11899534
Good try, Sam.

[Anonymous No.11899560]

>>11899543
This.
There are countless Trump threads all over pol and the rest are just rdt bait threads. No one with any sense on the right still supports that ziocon.

[Anonymous No.11899567]

>>11899511
Really not sure what you're trying to say here but if you're asking about scientific works that have had an importance on culture, then On the Origin of Species and The Annus Mirabilis Papers are two off the top of my head, and those are the babby-tier famous papers everyone knows about.

If you're suggesting science has not had an impact on art then you don't know much about art, my friend. Did you not do very well in school? Is this why you can't abide any mention of science?

[Anonymous No.11899568]

why are liberals who claim to be super left wing but are actually just liberals so annoying? like what's the obsession with claiming to be so left wing, but then not actually being left wing? It's like it's the cool thing to say how left wing you are, but meanwhile you're not actually a leftist but rather some idpol muh trannies muh niggers mug immigrants liberal. none of that shit is actually leftist, that's all liberal bullshit

[Anonymous No.11899571]

>>11899560
zio, like zion?

Weird how you say "still", given that Kushner was there all along.

[Anonymous No.11899579]

>>11899537
>close board borders now!
>build a wall to protect /lit/
Ahahahahaha

[Anonymous No.11899581]

>>11899571
there was always that sliver of hope in the 4d chess memes, but in the end the memes were just dreams

[Anonymous No.11899583]

>>11899568

No, I'm quite left wing. I don't mind people who are different and all, but I want the rich to be executed on live tv.

[Anonymous No.11899589]

>>11899553
Never read his stuff, but if that's the sort of thing he says then maybe I should. I know he's got some neuroscience background which is funny because I studied neuroscience in college, so maybe that's where some of the similarities arise.

My point stands though, you're not offering much in the ways of a genuine rebuttal. I genuinely want to understand why you reject empirical evidence and if there's actually anything substantial to it. Otherwise I will be left with the notion that it's on the basis of selfish and/or fear-driven motivations.

[Anonymous No.11899595]

>>11899525
>that's why the #2 presidential candidate for the Democrats is an open Marxist
Who was a political outsider and got screwed so hard by the party machine despite enjoying popular support. If anything it shows how weak the Left is that a mild socdem couldn’t beat Dem’s weakest candidate in a post 08 era despite facing huge inequality and upheaval.

[Anonymous No.11899596]

>>11899174
the meme is not about politics it's about internal vocalization
it's about the strength of your inner voice/sight/ear/smell/empathy, your ability to say/see/hear/smell/feel things that are not really there
A surprising number of people have no internal voice, and to those who do have it, going without sounds like a lower form of consciousness, one without decision making, just reacting to stimuli, like an animal
the meme originated with a scientific study on internal voices. It expanded on two fronts:
1) that certain behaviors or opinions can be considered NPC behaviors because only creatures of instinct or people consulting a decision tree would ever act like that. For example, any stimuli that would throw an NPC off their decision tree would force them to abandon any attempt to make a coherent response, and fall back on a default behavior instead, such as outrage or offense
2) that NPCs take offense at being characterized as such. This stems from point 1, since they have no self-reflective capability so confronting them with an image of themselves throws them for a loop and they default to outrage. This second point was misinterpreted by meme kiddos to water the meme down into yet another "stupid meme man likes a thing I don't like so it's bad" image macro
Of course /pol/ takes a fancy to the NPC meme because /pol/ is so heavily counterculture that they have to believe most people are either brainwashed or intentionally ignorant, but it is not inherently political. It is about levels of consciousness, and examined vs unexamined thought. When you speak, do you already know what your next sentence is going to be before you say it? If not, you're probably an NPC.

[Anonymous No.11899597]

>>11899581

I gagged my way through putting up with shillary 'cause muh supreme court (see yesterday for why), but when Trump won I had a small sliver of a hope that some of the populist stuff that he threw out there would lead to him acting in a way that we haven't seen since before my parents were born. Instead, we got Bush 3. So, while I am not quite as disapoint, I am still dispoint too.

[Anonymous No.11899601]

>>11899597
He hasn't started a war yet.

[Anonymous No.11899618]

>>11899583
you're sitting here trying to argue that the dems and reps are right wing when they're obviously both liberal parties, I sincerely doubt you're on the left.

>>11899595
You're right, Bernie Sanders was met pretty widely with a dismissive attitude from the media. But imagine the an outward fascist analogue to Sanders arose on the right. Do you think he'd be met with the same "tut,tut nice try now vote Clinton" attitude that Sanders was met with? Of course not, people would be absolutely screaming their heads of freaking out. In fact, I'd bet the Republican Party would find a way to refuse him the ability to run with them. An open fascist would never get the kind of passive aggressive "we accept you but you're not allowed to win" attitude that Sanders got.

[Anonymous No.11899620]

I was happy when the NPC meme died. Now that it's back I want it to get bigger to the point that it's discussed live on CNN or some other channel. I want it to become so ubiquitous that it reaches critical mass.

[Anonymous No.11899629]

>>11899618
>fascist
Why are you insisting on constantly using fascist as a benchmark for far right wing politics when USA had other variants? Trump on other hand sailed through the primaries though despite being a political outsider himself. Hell even the white nationalist supported him. Idk if the fascists did though.

[Anonymous No.11899632]

>>11899596

>When you speak, do you already know what your next sentence is going to be before you say it? If not, you're probably an NPC.

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

Honestly, it's more like I know the next 4 sentences and at least 3 different variations of each that I could use, along with already having a pretty good idea about the most likely responses by the person who I'm talking to at the time. I've tried to test how many lines of thought I can have at once in my mind. It seems to be about 4. For instance, I can count in my head, while thinking the alphabet backwards in my head, while thinking about why I'm doing this, and thinking other unintentional thoughts at the same time.

It's honestly hard for me to believe that anyone doesn't have an internal dialogue, but I haven't read the study. If they don't, it just seems like another form of stupidity, not something that justifies doing anything negative to them. I mean, I have a fairly intelligent cat, but I'm sure that his intellect peaked at about 4 year old human level, yet that wouldn't justify me like kicking him in the ass or something.

When I was a kid, I had my "christ, couldn't we just euthanize everyone with an IQ lower than 120" (even though IQ is ethnocentric and blah blah) moments, but most people tend to outgrow that line of thought.

It seems like, while it is possible that the NPC notion isn't inherently right wing, the people who have an "and thus we should X" after it are essentially right wing. Myself, while I would prefer that we do what we can to stop both stupid and destructive people from hurting everyone else, I can't really go to the annihilation place based on that, and the people who can freak me out. (even if I would be fine with executing all billionaires)

[Anonymous No.11899638]

>>11899629
>Trump is far right because a white nationalist supported him
White nationalists supported Romney in 2012 and McCain in 2008 when that was the best choice they had. If this is seriously your argument then I think we're done here. Go back to licking windows, it'll be a more productive use of your time.

[Anonymous No.11899641]

>>11899618
That seems counterintuitive. If I consider both parties too far to the right, while you don't think that they are to the right, that would place me further to the left. I mean, just employ X < Y and Y < Z then X < Z level logic.

[Anonymous No.11899648]

>>11899638
I am not saying Trump is far right you fucking idiot, but that he sailed through primaries despite being an outsider precisely coz he was part of the Left and he was more right wing than most candidates.

[Anonymous No.11899656]

>>11899648
>he was part of the Left
He wasn’t part of the Left

[Anonymous No.11899659]

>>11899596
This is a very interesting perspective, I think this clears up what people mean by the NPC meme. I like this interpretation and I think there's some truth to it. The default mode network has become a topic of great interest in recent cognitive psychology/neuroscience and this probably plays into it to some extent. Thanks for this, it gives me something to look into.

>>11899553
As a continuation of >>11899589, it seems that the NPC meme is based at least in part on the system of knowledge you seek to reject. Don't you see the contradiction there? You're using a term that uses as its premise a position that you reject, simply because the premise is disagreeable to you in ways that I still don't understand because you refuse to elaborate on them? Isn't that NPC behavior, as you might put it?

[Anonymous No.11899661]

>>11899632
pic related favors asians and whites? how?

[Anonymous No.11899667]

>>11899589
The way you laid out the argument shows that we are already arguing at the level of your primitive/core beliefs. The only options for that to change are either catastrophe or me capitulating to your method.
This is the core problem of rational/scientific thought. It subsumes all difference into a pillar, and then demands that people fight among the ruins. Form and myth are made impossible at the beginning of discussion, written out by law, and anyone who disagrees must prove their existence within enemy territory.
It is like betraying an allied king and framing his knight for the murder, then asking him to prove his innocence within your own castle. A desecration of all truth and justice.
The forms exist independent of us. Insisting that there is only a reduction of forms into reality, which is what pure empiricism is, does nothing more than replace one form with another. The true act of justice is still there as form, while the other one (betrayal, for the sake of simplicity) has taken over, and will likely have consequences down the road.
Justice is blind, as they say. Which is the ultimate argument against empiricism.

[Anonymous No.11899672]

>>11898766

Also, for people who aren't gamer/roleplayer dorks, the NPC thing sounds exceedingly likely, and I think that limits the spread of the notion.

I used to have a friend decades ago who thought that most people were "grey" while the few people who weren't who were meant to do things and had unique thought weren't.

Dude was a middle schooler and, aside from the veneer of science, this seems on his pre-teen level.

[Anonymous No.11899675]

>>11899596
>it is another if you deny you are X you are definitely X episode
So stupid as a catergorization tool since it puts the accused in a bind they cannot get out of

[Anonymous No.11899678]

>>11899659
But what if there's some truth to the NPC meme? Which there clearly is.
Again:

[Anonymous No.11899680]

>>11899632
>I know the next 4 sentences...
same, and that seems to be true for most people on this site, but it's certainly not true for everyone. There are a few various reddit screenshots, in particular, that get passed around with this meme of people detailing their internal mental lives completely void of any specific thoughts, and only with general impressions and emotions in their head moment to moment
There is no immediate application of the NPC meme. One common conclusion is that NPC's thoughts and opinions are worthless, since they are achieved not through reasoning or observation but just psychological cause and effect. An important thing to note is that it's not an inherent condition - people can "wake up" from thoughtlessness (and again there are one or two fascinating testimonies of this happening, I wish I had saved some of the pictures) through simply being intentional about the way they think. You may argue that lack of an internal voice == lower level of consciousness == less valuable human being, or that something other than consciousness ascribes worth to people, it doesn't matter. Understanding the NPC dynamic is a tool to understanding the world and the people around you - why worry about how it might influence public policy, when it can have a massive impact on your day to day life? There's no sense in trying to argue with your aunt about whether or not Trump is literally Hitler - she's an NPC, she has a set of stock responses to every situation that she pulls out of a Chinese room in her head, and you will never get through to her with reasoning or argumentation because those things don't apply to her internal world. So don't waste your time or concern with her political opinion. It's unimportant.
Incidentally, I'm curious if you think all people are of equal value, and if so why.
>>11899620
https://kotaku.com/how-the-npc-meme-tries-to-dehumanize-sjws-1829552261
Actually some quite solid OC at the beginning of that article

[Anonymous No.11899685]

>>11899661

figuring out race on /lit/ :: not today

[Anonymous No.11899708]

>>11899675
>it is another if you deny you are X you are definitely X episode
Ironically, it is your misinterpretation of my words that would most likely get you classified as an NPC. Observe:
1) I said that NPCs have a limited set of possible responses and, when none is available, they will default to something apparently incoherent
2) I also said that NPCs are often angry or outraged when confronted with the idea of the NPC meme
notice the implicit
2a) PCs do not get angry about the NPC meme, since they do not feel personally attacked by it, and also they have the cognitive capacity to understand and analyze the concept without having to experience it as stimulus
You then
1`) said a non-sequitur, acting as if anyone *who denied* being an NPC was classified as an NPC according to the meme (not true) and then
2`) proceeded to get angry about the NPC meme, thereby unintentionally fulfilling the actual criteria needed to out yourself as an NPC when exposed to the meme
pretty lulzy, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say you just didn't read very carefully.

[Anonymous No.11899709]

>>11899680
Isn't not having an internal monologue the goal of Zen? And possibly all buddhism? Like isn't that a main part of such enlightenment?
Less mystically, an internal monologue is not necessarily a good thing. Words are not always sufficient to describe life. Nor would I expect them to be as fast as nonverbal NPCish thought.

[Anonymous No.11899724]

>>11899661
Not them, but this is not the only way to administer an IQ test. I've taken IQ tests that are based partly on historical/political knowledge or knowledge of current events, for example. IQ tests historically have also been much worse in this regard, expecting a highly specific cultural knowledge base.

I'm sure they've improved over time, but even a test such as the one in your picture presupposes an understanding of geometric shapes which is not necessarily universal. Some cultures, for example, don't have a number higher than 2, and members from those cultures are unable to easily differentiate between clusters of 10 or 15 objects (though clusters below 7 objects are typically not an issue, interestingly). Now, those people would likely not do well in our society, so there definitely is some validity to IQ as a predictor for success in modernized cultures. But people generally take umbrage with the idea that IQ is an end-all be-all indicator of intelligence, when in reality it's a signifier for specific types of intelligence which are typically valued in specific fields and contexts. There are people with low IQs who are extraordinarily successful and, and inversely, there are people with high IQs who are absolute failures by most metrics.

[Anonymous No.11899732]

This place has unironically completely lost it.

[Anonymous No.11899733]

>>11899596
What is the value in not being an NPC?

[Anonymous No.11899734]

>>11899709
there is arguably a higher plane of consciousness beyond vocalization, sure, whatever, but this is not that. As I said, there are people who have come out of NPC stage very late in their lives, and they describe their past lives as soulless, mechanical and instinctual. The study which this meme hinges on implies that somewhere between 50%-75% of people lack an internal monologue, and I highly doubt they're all enlightened monks
Also I wondered how long it would take until this meme got synthesized into the /lit/ subvocalization meme lmao. I didn't realize this board was lacking the context around gray wojak faces suddenly appearing all over the chans

[Anonymous No.11899738]

>>11899724
those populations are demonstrably stupid and any high iq who fails almost certainly suffers a mental disorder

[Anonymous No.11899740]

>>11899733
what's the value in anything

[Anonymous No.11899744]

>>11899708
Lmao you said people don’t do what I said and then proceed to do exactly that same thing on me, projecting anger onto me when I was displaying dismissal at best. This type of response is exactly what I was talking, that this meme is formulated to ward off any critique or dismal by converting them to proof of itself. You haven’t mentioned what are the appropriate responses to reject accusations of NPCs, and seeing how you tied my criticism of it as if I was denying my status as an NPC, you don’t really care anyway.

[Anonymous No.11899746]

>>11899709
I think this is a good point, but I believe that the mind of the hypothetical NPC is more like a greyhound in a racetrack, unable to ever stop to catch its breath and think about why it's chasing after the felt little rabbit. The point of not being an NPC is to stop and think about the decisions you're making, which I believe is partly the purpose of many Buddhist doctrines.

[Anonymous No.11899752]

>>11899732

[Anonymous No.11899755]

>>11899740
What is the value of value?

[Anonymous No.11899763]

>>11899596
If you're knowledgeable and have a detached view of your ego does it really matter if you go by gut feeling in social situations? It feels like NPCs are NPCs because of the lack of education or effort in critical thinking and abstraction outside of speaking to others. Impulsive thoughts seem to be demonized, but if our brains are trained outside of social interactions, going by those gut feelings should allow you to be, well, not NPC.

>>11899709
This is basically what I mean. It all comes down to realizing your own ego to escape NPCdom. If you don't have the capability to think before you speak, at least you can train to speak without any emotional attachments or hate.

[Anonymous No.11899770]

>>11899744
que pasa? You misread the original post, and then got upset over something that wasn't there. You came across as petulant, not dismissive, and your followup reply does nothing to convince me you're not seething
>what are the appropriate responses to reject accusations of NPCs
how do you reject accusations of faggotry? The same rules apply
No one here has accused you of being an NPC (I specifically did not), so please don't get so defensive. It is the anger and defensiveness, as if you feel you have something to prove or disprove and are not sure how to go about it, that (supposedly) hints that you are suffering an existential crisis as a result of being faced with yourself in meme form
If you have been called NPC somewhere else, I'm sorry your booty got bothered, but you should just get over it and move on. You do not have to affirm nor deny the validity of the meme to reject being classified as either side of its implicit dichotomy

[Anonymous No.11899775]

>>11899680

Greentexting you, not to diss, but to give an idea of what I'm responding to while I'm going it:

> meme of people detailing their internal mental lives completely void of any specific thoughts, and only with general impressions

I wonder if that's more a matter of being verbal/literary vs perceiving in another way. If I stare at a blank slightly imperfect wall too long, I can sort of see the suggestion of words. The same thing happens under my eyelids when I've been up to long. The one time that I did a drug that made me hallucinate strongly, the world actually turned into letters and melted. Like I said above, I read hundreds of books a year. Books are basically my TV or my internet.

As a result of being so language orientated, I am very bad at physical description and drawing. I suspect that my memory of things that I've seen is far less complete than other people who are more visual or artistic.

I wonder if some of the people who are being deemed NPCs aren't just people who think differently.

> why worry about how it might influence public policy

for the same reason that I don't want to give my enemies weapons

>I'm curious if you think all people are of equal value

They aren't, but that doesn't mean that I would treat them differently as a result. I'm willing to be extremely harsh towards certain people, but I base that more upon what they do than who they are. For instance, I would sooner see David Koch die than a mentally retarded person.

[Anonymous No.11899778]

>>11899763
Being an NPC sounds liberating. How do i unrealize my ego?

[Anonymous No.11899779]

*doing

[Anonymous No.11899782]

>>11899738
Stupid according to your parameters, which are confined to the realities that you're familiar with. If you or I were placed in an environment where we required the knowledge these populations have acquired in order to survive we would be considered stupid, because we wouldn't have been raised with the ability to readily acquire the skills necessary to learn that knowledge. The point is that intelligence is by definition is contextually-dependent. It doesn't make IQ a useless metric.

To your second point, it's true that that's likely the case in many situations. But there are other factors that come into play, some absolutely brilliant people simply don't have the material means to succeed, or otherwise don't know how to or are not interested in directing their intelligence in ways that are deemed productive to society. Key word "deemed," because this plays into my previous point that what society values and measures success by are specific types of intelligences and skillsets.

[Anonymous No.11899790]

>>11899775
>would rather see david koch die
Ideology isn't a replacement for meaning, anon.

[Anonymous No.11899800]

>>11899724
Such tests as pictured still show the same racial differences.
Ok, the Pirahã tribespeople have trouble with counting and thus that or any test. But blacks live such different lives they can't count to 3? They don't recognize a square? I mean, are they secretly teaching them the Kali Yuga while we were all sitting in math class?
IQ is supposed to measure intelligence, not success. The less meritocratic society the less intelligence would matter to success.

>>11899734
>>11899746
>>11899763
I don't know. I still think it could be zen enlightenment. "Before enlightenment, chop wood, carry water. After enlightenment, chop wood, carry water." Or maybe more like "being in the zone" for a top athlete. Which isn't really enlightenment but has some similarities. Maybe it goes: 1. NPC no thinking. 2. Wake up to the angst of your radical freedom (or whatever) 3. Enlightened non-thinking.
Also, isn't NPC kind of the opposite of the subvocalization meme? Yet both are bad?

[Anonymous No.11899805]

>>11899770
You did accuse me in your 2) by saying I fulfill the citieria of NPC with my objection to it. Attempts to gaslight me does not work when you said one paragraph not all critics of the meme is accused and then in the second implied that I am.

>how do you reject accusations of faggotry? The same rules apply
You reject accusations by proving that you are not one and you don’t like men. The problem with including “if you are mad about being accused of being a faggot” is a poor way to gauge faggotry since anyone can and will do the same. You only have to test it that person likes men or not.

Your passive aggressive projection fails even further, I never been accused of being an NPC because I did not speak about it till now. Even then I am not wholeheartedly against the idea per se (some people just don’t seem to have inner life’s) merely pointing out that one of its catergoization is very poor and ripe for abuse.

[Anonymous No.11899808]

>>11899790
and I would like to give a hundred thousand people or so the means to search for meaning by taking their money and using it to put people in a position where they have the time and the means to learn

If it makes you feel better, Soros and Buffett are on the same list, just lower.

[Anonymous No.11899812]

>>11899805
>if you are mad about being accused of being a faggot”
If you are mad about being accused of being a faggot you are one.

[Anonymous No.11899813]

>>11899775
bbs arrows are the original quotation marks, redditfriend
At least within the context of the meme, to be an NPC is a strict downgrade from fully conscious thought. It is not just "thinking differently", it is not thinking at all
>for the same reason that I don't want to give my enemies weapons
you should not fear anything in the pursuit of truth, anon
>base that more upon what they do than who they are
as I said above, being an NPC is not inherent to any person, and anyone can escape it. Most won't, for obvious reasons, but it is not a built in part of anyone's identity, nor is it classified across racial, gender, socioeconomic, ethnic or religious divides (at least not yet, not in the commonly accepted usage of the meme)
you did not say anything very exciting about your valuation of human beings and it's 2am and I'm tired of playing KYM, so I'm going to bed. I've googled the original study that birthed this meme if anyone should want to know more, and attached another picture of a slut because pretty girls catch people's attention and are also pleasing to look at:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/pristine-inner-experience/201110/not-everyone-conducts-inner-speech
it was a pleasure to speak with you, anon

[Anonymous No.11899820]

>>11899813
Be well

Dubs I leave to read Henry James
No dubs I watch wrestling
Post ending with 0, I stay online

[Anonymous No.11899822]

>>11899808
People don't need much money at all the educate themselves. There are public libraries and the world wide web that can offer an incredible education to people without much material wealth

[Anonymous No.11899831]

>>11899778
By imagining you're a woman

[Anonymous No.11899837]

>>11899822

That's pretty hard to do when they are working 3 part time shit jobs to get by.

[Anonymous No.11899840]

>>11899837
Sounds like hyberbole to me, but what more could i expect from an ideologue

[Anonymous No.11899845]

>>11899822
>world wide web that can offer an incredible education to
Why do people constantly shill this line when the whole of point about education is filter and categorizing knowledge instead of just having access to it?

[Anonymous No.11899848]

>>11899800
I'm not arguing against the point that there are population differences in IQ between races. I was explaining to the other anon the basis of claiming that the IQ test is ethnocentric. I make repeated references to "success" because IQ and conscientiousness are the two strongest predictors of career success, along with (I believe?) emotional intelligence, though I'm less sure about that last one.

As to your second point, I think the truth is that there's a balance to be sought. The way that >>11899632 describes non-NPC-ness sounds a lot like schizophrenia on a second read. I don't think it's possible to be in zen-like absolute present-moment awareness mode all the time. Though in fact, that mode seems to be the opposite of NPC-mode thinking. We may be describing three states of mind here:

Zen present awareness
NPC automaton thought loops
PC introspection and self-reflection

I don't think it's healthy to be excessively introspective. As I'm sure a lot of people here would tell you, it's an easy road to mental illness. But obviously it's not desirable if we seek to live fulfilling lives.

[Anonymous No.11899863]

>>11899845
All of that 'filtering' is fairly accessible. It just takes effort to find. The only thing teachers do is spoon feed.

[Anonymous No.11899870]

>>11899840
It's not hyperbole friend. You probably have lived a very privileged life if you genuinely believe there are not some people out there who work 12+ hours a day just to scrape by. Hell, it's probably the norm in some Eastern countries. I work 8 hours every day at a relatively non-stressful job and I'm usually quite tired by the end of it. I can't imagine what it must be like working some shitty, physically exhausting job every day and coming home and studying at night school for a degree. It's possible, some people certainly do it, but those people are probably quite exceptionally tenacious relative to the mean.

[Anonymous No.11899873]

>>11899863
No that filtering is based on how you filter stuff and if you are an uneducated retard you are only going to get uneducated retarded shit. Teachers provide context and filters to grow the mind in a controlled manner

[Anonymous No.11899877]

>>11899863
Bad teachers spoonfeed. Good teachers provide an environment where one can hone their critical thinking/analytic skills so that students can teach themselves.

>>11899873
Also this.

[Anonymous No.11899881]

>>11899848
>like schizo

no, and keep in mind that the 4 trains of thought was something that I was capable of doing, not something that is transpiring all the time. Usually, there's just what I'm intentionally thinking about and shit that randomly comes to mind.

That said:

>road to mental illness

I don't think that one is a road to the other, but as someone who has been depressed from time to time, I sure as shit do know that being introspective doesn't help.

I wouldn't be surprised if NPCs are happier and more consistent at their jobs.

[Anonymous No.11899885]

>>11899873
>>11899877
>https://www.pcmag.com/feature/293079/10-excellent-free-online-education-resources
Ten seconds with google, first result.

[Anonymous No.11899900]

>>11899870
>I work 8 hours every day at a relatively non-stressful job and I'm usually quite tired by the end of it.

Before I became a contractor, I worked a well paying job where I worked as little as 35 hours and as many as 80 hours on a salary where I got no OT. It was all non-physical and, while it was pretty hard mentally, I enjoyed it quite a bit. I was also having 2 courses per period paid for by the company. I had no energy, lost relationships, and had no time for my friends because I was either working, studying, sleeping, or braindead.

I needed the stuff that I was learning spoonfed because I wasn't going to have the energy to take it in any other way. I know people who work 3 part-time shit jobs. Like you said, they exist. Some of them have kids too who they have to take care of whenever they are off. If they manage to read 2-5 books a year, they're doing really good.

I lucked out, only in that I am able to read while I'm braindead and zoned out because anything short of like Joyce is as easy as TV for me.

[Anonymous No.11899906]

>>11899881
Whoops, didn't mean to quote you, I meant to quote >>11899596, my bad. In particular the references to seeing/feeling/etc things that weren't there.

I think it's a back and forth. There is a correlation between intelligence and mental illness, depression being one example. Depressed people have greater self-awareness and more accurate evaluations of the outcomes of social situations than non-depressed subjects, for example, who typically see social interactions as being more positive than they actually are (as judged by the people they're interfacing with). It might be that depressed people have more of a tendency to notice negative aspects in themselves and that those negative aspects are then likely to depress them more. Some degree of obliviousness seems favorable to good mental health. But it's a complicated subject and I'm getting too tired to think about it for much longer.

[Anonymous No.11899908]

this boils down to free will vs determinism, without even mentioning that it takes what we call sentience completely for granted

are people aware of and truly act through their agency, or do they not. its fascinating how these memes get progressively solipsistic yet no one wants to call it out

[Anonymous No.11899912]

>>11899885
Did you even read my arguement. Access to knowledge and information is one thing, having a guide to teach you to filter and understand is another

[Anonymous No.11899913]

>>11899568
Because "left" and "right" are practically meaningless terms, and if you go extremist enough in either direction they start to converge on some things, i.e. overthrowing the current power structures

[Anonymous No.11899919]

>>11899724

What a moronic post. First, no one with any form of objectivity would agree that a “current event/history” test could properly assess intelligence across multiple cultures or races.

Second, your discussion on how certain cultures are disadvantaged because they don’t utilize the same shapes or numbers can be answered by just comparing Asian-AMERICAN, Black-AMERICAN, and white-AMERICAN test scores. Every logic based exam (SAT MCAT DAT LSAT) shows the same gap between races.

Third, of course anomalies exist in giant samples (successfully people with low IQ) but when you look at the best predictor of economic success, IQ is #1. This point is pretty obviously. Who here wouldn’t accept the following statement -“ lower IQ individuals on average make less money than average or higher IQ individuals.”?

[Anonymous No.11899927]

>>11899235
Why do they get punched?

[Anonymous No.11899931]

>>11899908
There's nothing solipsistic about it. There's enough information there that anyone with a decent grasp of philosophy should be able to get an idea of its meaning. And anyone who has called it out in such a way has been proven not to be able to get the most basic images.

[Anonymous No.11899933]

>>11899919
I am not arguing the points you're making, and in fact if you'd bothered to read through the comment chain you'd see that I make some of them myself. I was simply explaining to the anon the basis of the claims that IQ tests are ethnocentric, which they certainly are.

[Anonymous No.11899941]

>>11899931
so what are the parameters of this mmorpg we're all in? is there a goal? they say life is a game, well hey now they got apps that can track and measure every single action a human can take, and reward you for it! didn't the guy who programmed red notifications on facebook say that that action was the start of making technology as addicting as possible?

so this is all just jokes, right? no one who is partaking in or talking about this meme actually ponders whether or not they are the only pc character in their vicinity?

[Anonymous No.11899953]

>>11899941
Basically already answered here:
>>11899223

[Anonymous No.11899955]

I dont even bother posting in these threads cous all yous niggas just baiting non fucking stop.

>>11899174
like wtf how am i expected to read this and think its a serious post?

>>11899596
then tehre is this
come on

[Anonymous No.11899974]

>>11899955
Would it be more serious if I offered you a chance to suck my dick?

[Anonymous No.11899976]

>>11899953
okay, so the meme is symptomatic of the rift between individual experience and the brutal realities of the accelerating world we're living in

in which case, memes in general are the the expression of unresolved tensions that arise from being increasingly interconnected through wifi

[Anonymous No.11899983]

where were you when you realized all of this is being posted by a single person?

[Anonymous No.11899985]

>>11899912
You are an idiot and clearly don't understand how the internet works. Do humanity a favor, and kill yourself.

[Anonymous No.11899989]

>>11899983
Right there because you're the same person too

[Anonymous No.11899995]

>>11899983
>>11899989
THE HIVEMIND COMMETH

[Anonymous No.11899999]

>>11898766
the NPC meme takes a fundamentally interesting hyperstitional concept and ruins it by making it possible for the reader to think they're special, demoting the entire business to masturbatory wish fulfillment

[Anonymous No.11900007]

>>11899999
i'll follow up quints by saying the cult of kek meme relied on the same hyperstitionalism but was executed far better

[Anonymous No.11900051]

The NPC meme is based on a misinterpreted study.

[Anonymous No.11900068]

>>11900051

I'm genuinely interested in what you said. Would you care to elaborate?

[Anonymous No.11900070]

>>11899983

[Anonymous No.11900077]

>>11900070

[Anonymous No.11900102]

[very Mark David Chapman voice] b-book say phonies bad

[Anonymous No.11900110]

>>11900070
This is a really good meme fantastic work

[Anonymous No.11900118]

>>11900068
if you were not around on /pol/ or /sci/ for the study you are even more of a newfag then the army of redditors and twitter users who’ve made their home here.

[Anonymous No.11900140]

>>11900118
The study wasn't misinterpreted, and it's common sense for anyone who is not an NPC.

[Anonymous No.11900153]

>>11900070
Much better than your variant since the glasses is on in the second panel.

[Anonymous No.11900155]

>>11900118

no, I'm just not an in depth frequent fag, I've been here on and off since 07, but it's never been my favorite site and I prefer /lit/ since /b/ went to shit

[Anonymous No.11900239]

>>11900153