Gender Theory

File: 207 KB, 1600x1035, genderbread.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

Gender Theory Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:19:57 2018 No.11800570 [DELETED]

Can we actually take a moment to address gender theory as a series of ideas? These discussions are too often bogged down in ad hominem attacks and bad faith arguments. I think it'd be useful to actually confront the ideas honestly and see how they hold up. I'd appreciate book recommendations on the subject as well

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:22:58 2018 No.11800584 File: 37 KB, 326x499, 51ihv1iafbL._SX324_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Gender is a social construct.

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:23:49 2018 No.11800586

Here's something I posted a while back that I'd appreciate thoughts on:

Gender has been reduced to a purely linguistic, borderline philosophical concept by the transgender movement, and its purpose has been wholly defeated.
It started with the sex/gender schism, a strategic change to allow acceptance of trans people without acknowledging the contradictions they necessarily embody
Post-schism gender is defined by being that with the subject identifies with, and this definition was supplemented by images of biological males wearing women's clothing. The underlying thought process, even if not explicitly stated, was "it dresses like a woman, acts like a woman, says it's a woman, why not just say it's a woman?"
That's all well and good but they didn't stop there. Next, the gender identity/gender expression schism occurred at the hands of the feminist movement, which held that an individual of any gender is not bound to the societal roles of that gender. A woman is still a woman if she wears pants and forgoes makeup. A man is still a man if he wears a pearl necklace and lipstick. Masculine women are women, feminine men are men (although I'm sure there'd be squabbles over the use of the terms "masculine" and "feminine" anyways.
How on earth do you reconcile those two positions, that gender is simultaneously independent of biological sex and individual gender expression? What do we have left of gender? It is nothing, it is not measurable, it has no discernible quality.
It can no longer feel like anything to be a woman, because a woman can feel like anything. Likewise for men. Likewise for any number of proposed nonbinary gender options. How can one know one's gender now? What does it mean to identify if that identity is divorced from expression? Gender can not be determined by watching the way someone behaves or looking at how they present themselves, it can only be determined by asking a specific question and receiving a specific answer in response. The transgender movement is revealed to be a memetic mouth ritual by its own core tenets

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:25:04 2018 No.11800598

>>11800570
it's a bit of a meme in the Ray Brassier way of sort of dissolving folk psychology. The fact is that males and females are just wired differently so as to fulfille their evolutionary roles, and some people's wiring is fucked up.

Being masculine(in control) helps the male have children, being feminine(read: sort of soft) helps the woman make a male stay with her. Your 'identity' is just a meme you have in your head.

I dont think that these elements really dominate psychology though, they are important to an extent but there is a lot of other shit going on.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:26:01 2018 No.11800604 >>11800584 You are a social construct! deconstructs it with a katana Nothing personnell, discourse

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:27:05 2018 No.11800610 Seems like a lot of mental gymnastics to get over your biological sex

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:29:54 2018 No.11800620 File: 20 KB, 300x232, pic-Bible.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11800570 This is the only gender theory you need, degenerate.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:33:00 2018 No.11800636 >>11800570 >>11800584 >>11800586 >>11800598 >>11800604 >>11800610 Make this thread on /pol/, and have your degenerate beliefs and postmodernist cultural marxist neo-feminist liberalism BTFO, degenerates >>11800620 Fucking this.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:34:11 2018 No.11800643 File: 49 KB, 300x463, 1509520627.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Capital is sentient, gender is the least of our concerns.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:34:13 2018 No.11800644 >>11800636 And there are those shitty arguments I'm on your fucking side, retard. I'm trying to help you out by strengthening your case. Know your enemy and all that shit

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:36:12 2018 No.11800664

>>11800570
Biologically it is complete garbage. But lets scientific biology is garbage, it would still not negate a person wishing to maintain gender norms. What arguments do they have that we should all be pan-sexual trannies instead of wholesome family units? None, unless they want to argue biologically it causes psychological harm to force people into these roles, which is easily debunkable when you look at actual biology. So they're only hope is to reject biology and objectivity and to claim that it is their subjective taste of how things should be, which has no more weight then the traditionalists desired world.

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:38:29 2018 No.11800672

>>11800644
Everyone who isn't brainwashed by Jewish Hegelian dialetical thought knows that these people will burn in hell for all eternity and are destroying our white society. Arguments are worthless, do you need arguments to prove to your interlocutors than niggers are inferior to us as well?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:38:31 2018 No.11800673 I identify as a pseud virgin manlet

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:39:02 2018 No.11800676 >>11800664 >What arguments do they have that we should all be pan-sexual trannies instead of wholesome family units? None That the nuclear family isn't even natural/is a relatively recent phenomenon

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:39:24 2018 No.11800679 >>11800672 Because these people are going to have their hands around my children some day if something doesn't change by then

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:42:07 2018 No.11800688

>>11800676
That doesn't mean shit. Again, if you are forced to reject biology, you are left with nothing but subjective tastes, which means you're argument to have homosexual marriage as the norm is no more strong then the traditionalist idea of marriage. You find me disgusting, I find you that way.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:43:17 2018 No.11800693 >>11800679 Homeschool your children, white brother. Don't let them near liberal institutions

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:44:00 2018 No.11800701 They strike with extreme violence very close to the heart. Makes me unhappy & has polluted the world.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:45:56 2018 No.11800713 >>11800676 That still isnt an argument

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:47:45 2018 No.11800728

https://medium.com/deep-code/understanding-the-blue-church-e4781b2bd9b5

The gender moment is just another arm this Machine Octopus has grown in its attempt to hold on to anything it can before collapsing under its own weight. No one designed this crisis. It evolved. It's an adaptation to keep their fuel close to the flames and instill a sense of urgent obedience in the reader/watcher/voter/believer. It's one more thing the good liberal needs to take refuge from under the maternal cloak of the Church

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:49:12 2018 No.11800735 >>11800728 >under the maternal cloak of the Church nice phrasing m8

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:49:35 2018 No.11800738 >>11800728 >No one designed this crisis Try the redpill. You are as brainwashed as the people you deride. Start with Culture of Critique by Kevin McDonald. This is being orchestrated

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:50:39 2018 No.11800745 >>11800738 cringe and bluepilled stop larping leftypol

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:52:49 2018 No.11800756

>>11800738
It is and it isn't. It was orchestrated by humans in the same way that a house is built by a hammer. They are under control of something much larger that neither are aware of. The Church, much like the Landian view of capitalism, is its own beast and even the elites are at its mercy

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:56:21 2018 No.11800771

>>11800688
not that anon, but why in the world do you take the ''traditionalist idea of marriage'' so seriously? Tell me, on what grounds, other than your disgust and preference, would you say that this is superior to any other form of 'marriage''? Please don't start rambling about how it's 'biologically and evolutionairy' benificial, because that's really not the point. What does matter is that you're taking the 'traditional' view of some issue and like a fucking NPC defend it because your fucking feelz dont like it.

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 15:59:19 2018 No.11800784

>>11800745
>>11800756
Se who controls Hollywood, see who controls academia, see who controls banks, see (((their))) influence in the communism movement. This isn't even being hidden. I suggest you read up on the redpill. Thank me later, but don't pretend you weren't warned when you see how far the rabbit hole goes

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:02:17 2018 No.11800798

>>11800570
Nah.
It just ends up being an argument that gender equates to personality or it ends up being a meaningless label.
If you want to identify as the other gender or some form of a neuter fine. but don't push this confusing shit on kids, don't pretend you're normal, and don't make up new genders or flip-flop like an autistic pancake.

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:02:18 2018 No.11800799

>>11800771
not that anon, but why in the world don't you take the ''incestial idea of marriage'' so seriously? Tell me, on what grounds, other than your disgust and preference, would you say that this is inferior to any other form of 'marriage''? Please don't start rambling about how it's not 'biologically and evolutionairy' benificial, because that's really not the point. What does matter is that you're taking the 'incestial' view of some issue and like a fucking NPC defend it because your fucking feelz dont like it.

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:05:04 2018 No.11800814

>>11800799
I don't.
I could't care less what you did in your bedroom. It's the choice of a autonomous human being. I have no right to tell you whatever I think would be wrong. So yeah, the burden of proof is on you, you have to explain why it is oh so evil and degenerate and so bad for everyone involved that people stick their dick in other people outside of the context of traditional marriage.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:06:43 2018 No.11800822 >>11800814 whiteness = traditional gender roles = conservatism = honor, decency faggotry = jewish inspired = against family and tradition = degeneracy

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:08:29 2018 No.11800831 >>11800822 oh youre from /pol/. I wasted my time it seems

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:08:46 2018 No.11800832

>>11800693
How can you both advocate for the Bible and be for an ethnostate, knowing what that would require? You could've just said honorable/traditional/Christian/western society and I would've been with you all the way, but when you say white, the veneer gets stripped off and all anyone can see is petty tribalism masked as philosophical insight.

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:09:19 2018 No.11800834

>>11800814
I love how as your virtue signal, you this as if it is the objective moral system, why don't you explain why it is so evil and bad to follow my morality? You fail to realize that your idea to allow people to do whatever they want has no truth in other then in yourself, the sad part is it doesn't truly come from yourself, you've simply been programmed with it like a bot. Again, you have no more objectivity than I do, you can't explain why you're system is pristine and perfect any more than mine - because its not.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:10:20 2018 No.11800838 >>11800831 Its a leftpol larping you retard.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:12:39 2018 No.11800847 >>11800834 Leftists are drones, i.e. NPCs, unthinking shells of human beings. Whereas 4chan neo-Nazis and pseudo traditionalists are the beacons of autonomy and authentic Being-towards-Death

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:13:44 2018 No.11800854 >>11800847 Please stop, its not funny. Nobody on /pol/ talks like that.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:16:07 2018 No.11800862 Can we actually address the topic at hand or is this conversation just not possible at this point

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:17:32 2018 No.11800871 >>11800862 Do you also go to 4chan and ask what the users there think of, say, blacks and women?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:17:47 2018 No.11800873 >>11800862 The topic has been address and refuted.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:18:23 2018 No.11800878 >>11800862 It's not possible on this imageboard, /pol/ has retards festering in every corner of every board and so any thread on this topic will inevitably be derailed.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:19:15 2018 No.11800882 >>11800878 t. raging leftist who just watched his precious gender theory get assraped so just screeches /pol/

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:20:17 2018 No.11800888 >>11800882 This, fucking based. FUCK LEFTISTS

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:21:31 2018 No.11800895 >>11800888 >hahaha what if i act like a caricature of you

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:22:02 2018 No.11800898

>I literally have to include something like "JUST TO BE CLEAR: FUCK TRANNIES AM I RIGHT" in the OP just to keep these worm people from shitting up the thread with baseless assumptions
Intellectual black holes. Dirt men. Fuck you all, choke to death alone

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:22:10 2018 No.11800901 >>11800888 when you cant argue so you just strawman and parody like the passive aggressive blob of estrogen that you are

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:22:17 2018 No.11800903 >>11800878 Just because you think traps are faggots does not make you a /pol/ bogeyman

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:23:26 2018 No.11800913 >>11800901 lol this. He's probably chugging s0! while fapping to BLACKED videos

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:23:35 2018 No.11800914 >>11800862 capital is sentient

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:23:54 2018 No.11800915 >>11800913 Freudian slip?

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:24:25 2018 No.11800917
File: 105 KB, 320x408, 1512787632367.png [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>11800834
>why don't you explain why it is so evil and bad to follow my morality?
Goddamnit, I dont claim that, my issue is that your morals come out of nowhere and you basically accept them because you read them on some retarded reactionairy korean cupcake baking forum. Your argumentation for 'traditionalist marriage' is nothing else but muh biology and disgust for anything your gut doesnt like.
>Again, you have no more objectivity than I do, you can't explain why you're system is pristine and perfect any more than mine - because its not.
holy shit strawmen everywhere. My position is that in the field of sexuality, I cannot find anything that would make me lead to believe that it would be bad to restrict people in their behaviour. But you are so stuck up your own ass that you fail to see that your justification for traditionalist marriage is beyond retarded. My problem isn't so much your position, but the blantant unawareness of your own arguments and the way you seem to know that youre objective and ''right''

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:25:41 2018 No.11800928 SHUT THE FUCK UP AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH EVERYONE JUST SHUT THE FUCK UP

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:26:19 2018 No.11800932 >>11800917 >..would be good to resrtict people.. I hope you understand what i meant

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:28:07 2018 No.11800941

>>11800917
No, actually you just make it way more complicated than it needs to be. Weenie goes in the vagenie. Every other animal has the sole goal in their life of reproduction. You are a product of billions of years of cellular reproduction.

The morals that we're supposed to use our wiener part on the opposite sex comes from the fact that that's the only way to reproduce. Assfucking, or faggotry, is viewed as purely hedonistic because there is no goal beyond pleasure.

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:31:47 2018 No.11800958
File: 937 KB, 2436x3248, 1490463524045.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google]

>>11800570
is just a random and possibly a passing obsession with identity. (we will have news obsession about what is the really important and the key to all gates of the autoidentity)
basically they throw up hypersubjective arguments to something so silly and tiny (in terms of identity) like the gender or sex. they want to say this identificacion with "gender" is something important and big when is only important to people who have a problem with this identification in first place. what i want to say is that his arguments inherently accept the identification of somebody in his own subjective perspective (i am a hawk because i feel like a hawk) but they dont have the balls to adscribe to this kind of thinking because is all a political game in the end. they dont have ideas, they dont have too much in terms of pure ideas. (the notion that gender identity is identity in itself is so biased and obssesive and auto recurrent that is impossible to talk about it without somebody yelling you about the troubles of trans people ) they inherently selfcensorship his own ideas. they want a totally subjective identity but only in the gender and the "serious" area of gender identity. is something biased in itself.

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:35:50 2018 No.11800978

>>11800917
>Goddamnit, I dont claim that, my issue is that your morals come out of nowhere and you basically accept them because you read them on some retarded reactionairy korean cupcake baking forum. Your argumentation for 'traditionalist marriage' is nothing else but muh biology and disgust for anything your gut doesnt like.

Again where the hell do your morals come from? You just don't seem to be able to understand that you are in the exact same boat as me, in fact you don't even have the natural inclinations of man in your side (people due to their shared heritage often have similar inclinations). You're argument for free love is nothing but not fuck biology and hatred of "bigots".

>holy shit strawmen everywhere. My position is that in the field of sexuality, I cannot find anything that would make me lead to believe that it would be bad to restrict people in their behaviour. But you are so stuck up your own ass that you fail to see that your justification for traditionalist marriage is beyond retarded. My problem isn't so much your position, but the blantant unawareness of your own arguments and the way you seem to know that youre objective and ''right''

Well this leads to a another can of worms, into why marriage even exists and restriction on sexual practices exist, I mean you really think it just popped up for no reason and you really think there is no damage done in unrestricted sexual intercourse? But thats besides the point, you're seem to keep failing to justify your own positions of marriage any better than I am, I've explained clearly to that all things come down to personal taste, you are simply taking the same attitude but are so convinced by it fail to realize its justification is not better than mine

Oh and by the way I don't actually support traditional marriage.

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:39:16 2018 No.11800988

>>11800941
>You are a product of billions of years of cellular reproduction.
and I'm supposed to give a shit?
>The morals that we're supposed to use our wiener part on the opposite sex comes from the fact that that's the only way to reproduce
wow very convincing bro. I think we should also forbid blowjobs dude, that doesnt help reproduction either dude.
> Assfucking, or faggotry, is viewed as purely hedonistic because there is no goal beyond pleasure.
Again, why should I give a shit? Why do you say that it's bad to have no goal beyond pleasure?
Youre making all kinds of moral statements while I claim that there are no moral statments in this subject. So youre the one making it more complicated, burden of proof and all.

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:46:12 2018 No.11801010

>>11800988
the implicit framework he is operating with is that we are born with a sort of telos of reproduction that manifests through various desires. focusing on the desires instead of the telos will fuck you uo

It's basically Alistaire MacIntyre, some sort of neo-Aristotlean virtue ethics grounded in evopsych

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:50:54 2018 No.11801037

>>11800978
>You're argument for free love is nothing but not fuck biology and hatred of "bigots".
No, im not a leftist, I dont give a shit about bigots. You are right that my argument is FUCK biology. Because, biology doesn't can tell how creatures live their lives, and how they have lived their lives, but it cannot tell me how I should live my life. That's philosophy.
>in fact you don't even have the natural inclinations of man in your side
Yeah, keep being an npc and follow your tingly feelinks in your stomach man.
>into why marriage even exists and restriction on sexual practices exist,
I do, because of tingly feelings in stomachs
>I mean you really think it just popped up for no reason and you really think there is no damage done in unrestricted sexual intercourse?
not entirely. It's just that I dont give a shit what people want to do. It's their choice. I have no right to tell them that they cant do something because it's bad for them. If they want to go be a total degenerate with no self-respect, sure go ahead,it is their responsibility. They have the freedom to do that. Restricting someones behaviour because you know better than them wat is good for them is inherently arrogant and self-righteous.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:52:12 2018 No.11801043 >>11801010 >implying he has read anything

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:56:35 2018 No.11801064 >>11801010 >neo-Aristotlean virtue ethics grounded in evopsych anglos never failing to deliver

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:56:56 2018 No.11801066

>>11801043
Maybe the concepts are not clear in his head but that is what the things he's saying point towards. I somewhat agree and somewhat don't with that perspective. I think that the overarching principle of what is happening in reproduction- creative harmony, is what we should dedicate ourselves to. Not all people are meant to reproduce maybe. I dont think simple hedonism is very good for somebody, and I also dont think we should be forcing people to behave in a certain way, though I do think society would benefit from a more hierarchical, authority based way of running things. But you should be able to opt out if you dont like it. Men in instititions like the church or military understand the need for these things and dotn resent it most of the time.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:57:35 2018 No.11801069 my grandma summarized gender theory in a concise treatise which she dictated to me "those 'gays' are all gone crazy"

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:58:39 2018 No.11801072 >>11801066 Right, that sounds reasonable. He's not talking in a manner that suggests such a view though.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:58:53 2018 No.11801073 >>11800636 “You’re wrong because autistic screeching”

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 16:59:10 2018 No.11801076

>>11801037
>No, im not a leftist, I dont give a shit about bigots. You are right that my argument is FUCK biology. Because, biology doesn't can tell how creatures live their lives, and how they have lived their lives, but it cannot tell me how I should live my life. That's philosophy.

You're biology has a direct result on how you live your life, but besides the point. You live your life with certain subjective moral beliefs and values, they have no more objectivity than mine. All you can say are these are mine, and yours those are yours.

>Yeah, keep being an npc and follow your tingly feelinks in your stomach man.

You're not above yourself, don't pretend you are.

>I do, because of tingly feelings in stomachs

cringe

>not entirely. It's just that I dont give a shit what people want to do. It's their choice. I have no right to tell them that they cant do something because it's bad for them. If they want to go be a total degenerate with no self-respect, sure go ahead,it is their responsibility. They have the freedom to do that. Restricting someones behaviour because you know better than them wat is good for them is inherently arrogant and self-righteous.

Your moral beliefs on freedom of expression are not objectively the best. If you're happy to have a world of decadence thats your choice, me? I'd rather exercise restraint on society and why? Because I despise the world you "value" and you may despise mine, neither view being objective. Of course this doesn't negate that to do certain things you must follow logical laws and processes, but the at the end of all these, the initial spark and end goal only comes from a subjective taste.

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:04:58 2018 No.11801094

>>11801076
>Because I despise the world you "value" and you may despise mine, neither view being objective
i guess we agree, but my whole point of this shitfest of a disagreement is not that i am objective, but that your premises are based on stupid biological facts that have nothing to do with morality.
>Of course this doesn't negate that to do certain things you must follow logical laws and processes, but the at the end of all these, the initial spark and end goal only comes from a subjective taste.
bluepilled & cringe

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:05:22 2018 No.11801096 >>11800570 faggots are gay

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:06:43 2018 No.11801102 >>11801076 Do you see how much room your posts are taking up?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:06:56 2018 No.11801105 If nature is unjust, change nature.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:07:43 2018 No.11801109 File: 320 KB, 1173x1600, foucault (1).jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] Foucault solved Gender theory

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:08:49 2018 No.11801117 >>11800620 As long as you don't commit sodomy with other penis's you are fine?

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:09:58 2018 No.11801122

>>11800586
I understand your point, but I see your problem. So what if gender is reduced to almost meaninglessness? Is it really an important part of the human experience to “feel like a man” or “feel like a woman”? What value is truly lost with the weakening of gender identity?

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:10:28 2018 No.11801123 File: 12 KB, 317x267, 385.jpg [View same] [iqdb] [saucenao] [google] >>11801094 >your premises are based on stupid biological facts

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:11:30 2018 No.11801127 >>11801094 You are not being objective any more than I am. Your opinions are purely subjective and they go back to your biology as well. >>11801102 Too big brained.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:11:30 2018 No.11801129 Firm structures and deeply-held beliefs buckle and break under the movement of people, money, and goods. All others make way.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:12:33 2018 No.11801135 >>11801129 cant stop capital

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:13:17 2018 No.11801140 >>11801127 whatever. Biology =/= morality

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:15:37 2018 No.11801154

>>11801140
Thats so retarded I don't even know what to say. Of course they are different but that doesn't mean there is no connection. You're brain was structed with neurons and tacets that you couldn't choose, you actions have often already determined.

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:16:37 2018 No.11801164

>>11801122
I think it fucks with people, the ambiguity. Feeling like a man is a genuinely good feeling, evne a motivating feeling, makes you feel capable and in control of things, and women seem to also like feeling like women. The thing is that women have to act like men today if they want to be a part of the economic productive class, and men are discouraged from being too manly(in effect they arent because everybdoy treats you with more respect if you act masculine, but the message that society is giving is 'dont be masculine' while simultaenously venerating the hypermasculine). You can see this confuses people

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:19:15 2018 No.11801180

>>11801154
>Of course they are different but that doesn't mean there is no connection.
Prove it.
>You're brain was structed with neurons and tacets that you couldn't choose, you actions have often already determined.
Okay, fun fact science man, but that still doesn't explain why I should or should not do something

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:30:46 2018 No.11801233 >>11801122 Mass disillusionment and complete vernacular rehaul for basically no reason other than to please a vocal minority.

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:30:58 2018 No.11801234 >>11801180 You know you're brain right? That thing that you rely on for everything? Yeah well its predetermined with certain structures, pushing you to do certain things.

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 17:46:41 2018 No.11801306

>>11801234
>You know you're brain right? That thing that you rely on for everything? Yeah well its predetermined with certain structures, pushing you to do certain things.
Assuming a lot of things, but,whatever, I'll go along.
What are you claiming? I still have no idea how this wonderful thing you told me about, helps me determine what I Should do or Should not do. You say it pushes me in directions, but you can't be claiming that those are universally good right?

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 23:05:39 2018 No.11802551

They seem to play this game where they want to disassociate gender from sex in order to make gender refer to something extremely loose and subjective.
But then they go and re-conflate it with sex in order to imbue it with importance, like people wanting to use a bathroom for the opposite sex or saying they're the opposite sex in a medical form.

If gender is nothing more than your personality and your fashion sense then i don't care, it's not like i walk up to people and open with telling them my fucking mbti or fucking open with "hey i like shorts, they're comfy and easy to wear".

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 23:11:58 2018 No.11802563

>>11800570
There are four genders:
>Becoming Male
>Being Male
>Becoming Female
>Being Female.
They are in a state of flux, but the leftist perspective is a corruption which replaces the essence of ideal gender with a biological reproduction of desire. They replace the four genders with these:
>becoming female
>being female
>becoming a masculinised female
>being a masculinised female
The essence is lost and all that remains is a husk of gender idenitity, primarily because our society abandoned identity long ago.

Anonymous Mon Sep 17 23:42:38 2018 No.11802675

>>11800586
I think gender isn't even meant to be used any more, except as a linguistic marker (and even that could probably be tied to sex instead. See, what I've realized is sex is a social construct. Yes, it's based in biology, and there are two clusters along the spectrum. However, you can divide the middle ground any way you want. You can split the whole thing into two groups, have the two clusters and the middle to make 3, or even split the middle into 2 to make 4. So gender, which is even more nebulous than sex, is largely an outdated convention, especially in an age where economic necessity compels everyone to work. Even once we hit post-scarcity, it would probably no longer require stringent division of labor. Anyway, at least in the intellectual community (think hooks and Krenshaw not Sarkeesian), gender is increasingly just seen as useless, especially because sex, though socially constructed, is clearly based in biology.

>>11801164
The reason it feels good to be a man or good to be a woman has more to do with sex than gender. If you buy into evolutionary psychology, it feels good to act your sex because this behavior traditionally attracts mates. If you don’t buy into that, people probably feel good because they're fulfilling a role society has made for them, and getting positive attention (usually).

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 23:49:35 2018 No.11802692 >>11800584 THIS. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lpzVc7s-_e8

>>	Anonymous Mon Sep 17 23:53:23 2018 No.11802698 >>11802675 >See, what I've realized is sex is a social construct. >two clusters along the spectrum >you can divide the middle ground any way you want

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 07:38:49 2018 No.11803873 >>11801109 nazi

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 08:17:22 2018 No.11804017

There is great utility in the male/female, man/women, masculine/feminine dichotomy. There is a reason why it exists, across time, across cultures, and continues to exist.

If the concept of man and woman is socially constructed, arbitary, and can thus be done-away with; why can't the line that delineates, say, humans from animals, be discarded in the same way?

How do proponents of gender theory reconcile this idea of gender as a social construct with the existence of "men who have been born women", and vice versa; suggesting the existence of an innately gendered brain.

How do leftists in particular reconcile gender theory with the fact that this accelerating proliferation of identities that can be observed in the modern world (including trans and other gender idenities), is the product of capitalism expanding the market of identity?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 08:20:34 2018 No.11804026 >include us and we'll make valuable contribs too Okay that seems only fair >several decades later >tumbleweed rolls past Uhh...

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:12:33 2018 No.11804192 >>11802675 Completely agree with this

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:20:36 2018 No.11804213 >>11802675 If gender is so useless, then why must we be constantly bombarded by banshee shrieks saying how much it sucks to be a woman?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:22:37 2018 No.11804221 >>11802675 The fuck.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:25:47 2018 No.11804228 >>11802675 >gender isn't meant to be used anymore Lol what? What about mate selection?

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:25:58 2018 No.11804231

>>11804017
This conceives a history though where women and men have always had the same roles in a society.

I reconcile it by asserting that gender (not biologically of course, that is a provable thing) does not exist literally. Gender is simply an amalgamation of a template for people to live. You can make the same argument for why religions should be believed because it provides great utility and what would separate an atheist from an animal?

The rejection of gender is the greatest for of individuality that there is, you are capable of expressing how you wish to be based off of whatever ideal you so choose.

The reason with proliferation is less so with capitalism and more so with tolerance. Gender fuckery has been around for centuries and if cultures tolerate it then it will rise to the surface. Also I would argue its a byproduct rather than a product; some people of course use it to profit, but for the most part people just want to be themselves and to restrict who they wish to be to chromosomes is border-line totalitarian faggot.

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:28:27 2018 No.11804234

>>11800584
What I don't understand is one position I hear from some supporters of transgenderism, which starts with the proposition that gender is itself completely a social construct, and therefore not "real". This proposition obliterates the notion of transgenderism though, as a woman in the body of a human male would be just as "socially constructed" as a man in the body of a human male. If you deem the entire notion of "gender" to be unreal, you end up where you started -- all that is left is the biological male or female human animal, which generally will have a sexual preference for the opposite sex but not always?

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:28:34 2018 No.11804235

>>11804213
Because everyone wants to be a victim when it provides power to the victim. It is an easy way of gaining leverage.

>>11804228
>as though we haven't already stopped caring about mating and focused more so on creating relationships in a subconscious or conscious response to over-population/the decay of meaning in existence.

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:32:59 2018 No.11804251

>>11804234
Except often attraction isn't based solely off of chromosomes. If you have an ideal vision of a kind of woman you are attracted to you, and a trans person embodies that in such a way that you visually can't tell much of a difference (and lets face it we do this with ugly chicks already) then it is not outside the realms of possibility to be attracted to them. Furthermore attraction only goes so far when it comes to interpersonal relationships and banging. Sometimes its the taboo that makes it a turn on. Sometimes you just want your ass plowed.

My girlfriend fucks me with a strap on sometimes, you don't see me being a faggot about it all and going uwu but your biology is different than your role in this sexual encounter.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:34:05 2018 No.11804258 Be free to be whatever retarded gender you are, I am free to not associate with freaks. And that still seems to be the common trend no matter how "accepted" it becomes. Welcome to liberal capitalism

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:35:09 2018 No.11804262

>>11804231
>This conceives a history though where women and men have always had the same roles in a society.
This IS this case, though. Women provide the egg, men provide the sperm. This is THE most important factor in the social evolution of our species and it is an eternal fact. It has always been the case it will always be the case. The rest of your reply is nonsense that doesn't address my arguments. It honestly reads like English is your third language.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:37:58 2018 No.11804266 >>11804235 Hey moron, where is the overpopulation occurring? It certainly isn't progressive bastions of swpl liberalism. It certainly isn't places where people are ambiguous about their gender and the purpose of the biological sex.

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:38:52 2018 No.11804270

>>11804262
We are talking about roles in society (i.e. gender roles) not biology. There have been differences in who may raise the child, who works in the fields, who does what. Yes women get pregnant retard, yes that influences their personality for many, that doesn't equate to gender roles being consistent throughout history you illiterate dumbass.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:40:23 2018 No.11804276 >>11804266 Almost as if there's a reason for that.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:41:14 2018 No.11804279 >>11804270 Can you point to a single society which survived any significant interval after having women lead and men raise children?

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:42:27 2018 No.11804283 >>11804235 >le overpopulation meme in western society where people barely reproduce as is Wewing my lads

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:44:00 2018 No.11804287

>>11800784
You’re unwilling to admit to the roiling chaos that we live inside. Thinking that jews are responsable for everything gives you the same comfort as believing in a harsh (old-testament) god. You’ve chosen jews as your pariah, but it could just have easily been white people, males, or having more than 500k in your bank account. You took the first red-pill and sit comfortable in your wokeness when there’s 1000 more pills on the table. You’re a fucking coward.

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:44:46 2018 No.11804289

>>11804276
Are you completely incapable of thinking things through logically? Further reducing the population in places that are not overpopulated is not going to do anything good towards the "overpopulation crisis", it's just effectively replacing the people with migrants from over populated areas.

You act as if the population distribution is some sort of even vernier where reducing the population in one place evens out the population in another. Having a whole bunch of gender ambiguous white mental cases remove themselves from the gene pool does nothing to fix the overpopulation in Africa and Asia.

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:44:54 2018 No.11804290

>>11804270
>There have been differences in who may raise the child, who works in the fields, who does what.
Yep. There's also been differences in the number of arms and lungs and hearts humans have been born with; there's a prevailing trend however. The same goes for gender; there's a prevailing trend that exists across cultures across time. Why does this trend exist you ask? Women, not men, give birth.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:49:16 2018 No.11804301 >>11804231 Accommodation may increase freedom for a small group, but it necessitates restrictions placed on the majority.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:49:26 2018 No.11804303 >>11804270 Biology has largely determined those roles lmfao. The average male is vastly physically superior to the average female. There is no way around this and that would obviously effect how roles play out.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:51:40 2018 No.11804308 >>11804251 Do you tell those you know personally about how much you love being pegged or is that just reserved for when you fill like being a faggot on image boards?

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:51:41 2018 No.11804309

>>11801010
Overall - I think the queer theory thing is aiming at a liberation of feminine psycho-spiritual energies and cognition. The telos attached to reproduction (and the framing of feminisms within this telos) serves to instrumentalize feminity and co-opt it towards Capital. Queer theory is a locus of resistance, but with Capital being sentient we need to be nomadic with respect to these loci. Nowadays, I see all too often that me queer-theory friends are completely ignorant of class dynamics. I 100% empathize with them, but i can only support then about 50% of the time.

I think the key thing to remember is that my ability to explore my sexuality is purchased with the lives of random brown people who live under the paternalistic gaze if a predator drone.

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:52:25 2018 No.11804311

>>11802698
What is your problem? Do you feny the existence of intersex people? There is a spectrum of biological sex. I don't mean to say a penis is a social construct. I mean the way we choose to draw lines on the spectrum of sex is a social construct. Different societies have actually classified intersex people in different ways.

>>11804213
Because gender has been used as an oppressive tool in the past. I believe there are still disadvantages to being a woman, but it's obviously nowhere near as bad as it used to be. I would actually say that moving away from using gender as a classification will, in the long run, help end gendered issues.

>>11804228
What about mate selection? You see someone as attractive mostly due to secondary sex characteristics. If you got "tricked" and don't like the genitals, don't have sex with them. I imagine most people would, in a genderless world, continue to identify by sex, and would still try to appeal to people with their preferred set of genitals. Not much would actually change in the mating process.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:55:55 2018 No.11804320 >>11802563 based and raninbow-pilled

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:58:11 2018 No.11804332

>>11804311
>Muh oppression

Get over it you stupid faggot. The world doesn't like you, and it never fucking will. It's your job to make a better life for you, not everyone else's.

Also, mate selection is really fucking important if you want the species to continue to exist. You're basically suggesting we sacrifice 99.9% of the population to make room for mentally ill faggots who want to emulate something they don't understand and will never achieve. Go fuck yourself you selfish faggot.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 09:59:48 2018 No.11804333 >>11804311 >Intersex people What bearing does this rare defect have on the rest of the population?

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 10:00:04 2018 No.11804337

>>11804309
>Queer theory is a locus of resistance
Resistance against reality maybe. It's a good thing you faggots generally don't have kids, you're a bit of a self-solving problem so long as people aren't dumb enough to give you any kind of societal power.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 10:01:55 2018 No.11804343 >>11800832 Tribalism is a human psychological need.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 10:04:45 2018 No.11804346 >>11800676 He said wholesome, which you reinterpreted to mean nuclear. The nuclear family may be recent, but the extended family is ancient, and quite wholesome. I think most well-adjusted families would be happier with a grandparent or two around.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 10:12:52 2018 No.11804368 >>11804346 Most families i know have the grandparents around constantly, i don't think its such a dichotomy.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 10:19:45 2018 No.11804391 >>11800664 >What arguments do they have that we should all be pan-sexual trannies instead of wholesome family units? No one is arguing that

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 10:21:54 2018 No.11804400 >>11804311 >Do you deny the existence of intetsex people? >Do you deny the existence of people born without arms? There is a spectrum of arm-number. The idea that humans have two arms is a social construct.

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 10:25:22 2018 No.11804409

>>11804332
Where did I bitch about myself being oppressed. I merely noted that women had been oppressed in the past. Also, if we moved away from gender, male issues would also end. For example, women would have to register for the draft and men would win more custody battles. Mating is important, yes. I explained how not much would change there. On the off chance you did meet someone with genitals you don't like, you just don't have sex with them and go to the next person.

>>11804333
About 1% of the population isn't really rare. It isn't hurting you, so why not just classify them as a third group. Now we have three sex groups: male, female, intersex.

>>11804400
As I said before, the genitals aren't a construct. Rather, the categorization that just pretends intersex people don't real.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 10:29:07 2018 No.11804417 >>11804409 >1% Fun fact: 0.97% of that 1% are phenotypically female. >the gentials arent a construct The IDEA that males and females have different gentials is actually socially contructed. Not very progressive of you.

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 10:36:56 2018 No.11804428

>>11804409
Are you that delusional that you actually WANT women registering for the draft? They are kept out of combat positions for a reason. Getting rid of the formalities behind gender doesn't change the biological differences between the sexes. Women weren't "oppressed" because of socially constructed norms surrounding women, times were significantly more difficult than they are today, and women didn't effectively have much of a way to protect themselves from the reality of the outside world aside from having males sequester them to safety. There were women who wandered outside of those bounds, but most of those women ended up raped, murdered, and socially unsuccessful.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 10:45:04 2018 No.11804593 >>11804409 You can classify defects as a third group, that doesn't lessen the obvious binary between people who have developed properly and doesn't establish any kind of social construct.

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 10:55:12 2018 No.11804641

>>11804417
I think you're just retarded. Do you think intersex people make up the fact that they are intersex? What are you trying to say? Right now, it sounds like you're just screeching

>>11804428
I don't want women registering for the draft. We haven't used it in over 40 years, so I would prefer just ending the draft. I would also disband the US military and use the money for something better but reality is reality. It's just something MRAs like to bring up as a reason the wimmin have it better. I think you have some bad history there, but I agree that women are, on average, physically inferior. However, I don't think they are significantly mentally inferior. As a result, because we no longer live in a society where women need men to protect them, the socially constructed norms that became redundant at least 200 years ago should no longer be kept around.

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 11:02:22 2018 No.11804681

>>11804593
Do you believe that humans are different than dogs? If so, then species can not be a social construct. Yet, the standard of x can mate with y doesn't apply to, say, sea sponges, who reproduce asexually. But we don't want to say that every individual sea sponge is its own species. But now we see that there is no universal natural law that determines what is and is not the same species. So, at some level, species categories are social constructs. This doesn’t mean that we should fuck dogs, of course, or that dogs and humans are not clearly different species. Social construct =/= biologically rooted and important

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 11:03:40 2018 No.11804684

>>11800941
>>11800570
>no goal beyond pleasure

Ever hear about animals that regulate their litters season to season according to environmental conditions? Imagine one that regulated hormones on this same basis. Now picture what happens with these nonbreeding animals. The social changes that bring about benefits for the group might surprise you, especially as it relates to religion and government. I wouldn't be surprised to find that the unintentional effects of varying hormones led to a surplus of males within the tribe that were more inclined to be coerced without retribution. (Religion is gay; my just-so for today.)
>confront the ideas honestly
just stick to the pragmatic approach and let everyone hold some dogma to support their ethical concerns. What is the utility of accepting gender as a social construct? Can this utility be something that one who doesn't believe the dogma can accept as a benefit to the tribe, or at least to those in their tribe who suffer from such illness. The lack of compassion, the othering, is not a Christian sentiment, nor an intelligent strategy for a leader who is concerned with the health and safety of his tribe.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 11:08:22 2018 No.11804697 >>11804641 Intersex is a technical designation pertaining to an individual's chromosomal complement. Most (all that live past a week) are phenotypically male or female.

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 11:08:51 2018 No.11804701

>>11804641
Firstly on the intersex thing, it's a medical defect, not a gender identity. It is a medical failure to achieve functional reproductive organs, not an identity or sexual category. Cut the bullshit.

Secondly, if you are that insane that you think the US military can disband, you are the reason democracy is a total farce. Democracy can never work while delusional morons like yourself have the vote. I don't like the US Global Jewish imperial state either, but to think that the US as a state could just completely disband the military is so childish I can't even wrap my mind around an adult believing it. Giving morons like you equal consideration is the reason this country is turning into a shit hole, and you genuinely should remove yourself from society before you damage it further with your complete inability to engage with reality.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 11:40:16 2018 No.11804838 >>11800636 >/lit/s too dumb, maybe /pol/ knows Holy shit this board has gone downhill.

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 11:43:21 2018 No.11804853

>>11804697
Pretty sure the reason that intersex babies are phenotypically male or female is because we assign them that phenotype at birth. Which is ok; I would hate to have a uterus and no vagina. However, they still exist, and to pretend that they don't reinforces the idea that sex is solely binary

>>11804701
I hesitate to dismiss it as a medical defect. If responded to appropriately, intersex people can live normal lives. All I'm saying is that it isn’t male or female. This isn't the place for a discussion of US military policy, and I don't appreciate your attempted ad hominem

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 11:48:47 2018 No.11804892

>>11804641
But then you have the problem of society just becoming matriarchal instead. There is no true equality between us. A women in power will most likely prefer women because of past agressions that were real or percieved so they will decide that women are more deserving of higher status.

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 11:58:04 2018 No.11804946

>>11804853
Anon isn’t making an ad hominem attack. Anon is saying that your mentioning a position as ridiculous as disbanding the militarily (if in jest, unclearly) Makes you hard to take seriously. If you’re sincere, you’re an idiot (no ad hominem, I’m asserting that as an inference from what you wrote); if you’re insincere, moving on..

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 12:08:30 2018 No.11805004 >>11800878 The way you faggots address people as "pol" or "leftypol" is no more than a tactic to delegitmize and avoid arguments

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 12:22:42 2018 No.11805063 >>11800570 These gender confused people have mental illnesses and mental disorders. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DZz5-OVg5w

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 12:23:50 2018 No.11805068 >>11805063 fucking faggot trannies https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVcOQ4gyvTI

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 12:28:05 2018 No.11805084 >>11800584 yes a social construct based on biological differences

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 12:54:59 2018 No.11805217

>>11800570
Seems entirely based on an individual's opinion of themselves which can be influenced easily and basically just made up. It's arbitrary distinctions that Westerners use due to destroying their own structure and culture. They lack identity so they need to invent it. However, culture and identity is something built-up in many different layers over a long period of time, you can't just intellectually invent something and say that it is as such. To me, it seems almost like consumerism, like playing an RPG or tabletop game or something and playing around with stats while imagining yourself. Definitely a result of a lack of identity and culture. It's basically escapism.

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 12:57:09 2018 No.11805229

>>11805084
Every single living thing has a distinct biology.
Categories and abstractions are a way to wrap your feeble mind around this fact in a way you can manage.
When your abstractions start taking primacy over your physical reality, you've lost all intellectual intergrity. You're simply engaged in masturbatory belief affirmation because you can't deal with the fact you've been fed a bunch of bullshit your entire life because humans are not characterized by anything if not intellectual and moral failure.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 13:11:01 2018 No.11805296 >>11805229 Well I guess its time you kill yourself human

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 13:16:19 2018 No.11805322

>>11805063
It's interesting that people will deny or accept that label on the basis of an end utility. A person that is happy with their new gender identity will always be in perpetual dysphoria after the solidification of their identity in their sexual by their twenties because their biological functions become more and more false with heighten self awareness. Those that don't will always make rational decisions to gain a family, but that rational personae can't circumvent innate biological differences. Dressing up and cutting shit up is at worse childsplay and at best a sugar pill. If you are an intelligent trans person, you'll do what you have to do to survive and prosper as you wish, but you'll remain a Vaniteux.

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 13:54:41 2018 No.11805523

>>11804234
Let me try to break down your premises.
>Assuming that gender is a construct
>Transgender people claim to be the alternate gender in their bodies (eg woman gender in male body)
>But if gender is a construct, how can they claim the existence of a woman gender?

I think Butler's point on gender being a construct is more that
>Males are not born acting like men, females are not born acting like women
>They are taught to act in ways that society prescribes based on their biological sex (eg males have short hair, females have long hair)
>In short, gender-tied behaviour is not inborn but is artificial - it is constructed
The implications of which are not that gender doesn't exist, but that there is no biological imperative for people to act in the ways society prescribes to you based on your biological sex (eg if you're male, to have short hair; if you're female, to have long hair).

This feeds directly into the transgender concept - "I am biologically male, but I feel uncomfortable performing the gender-tied behaviours of the male and more comfortable performing those of the female."

But actually now that I've written it out like this, it does sound like the transgender people have it wrong. Butler's argument focuses entirely on the performance of gender - essentially on the external features that allow us to recognise a person to be of this or that gender - but the transgender agenda turns an inability to perform a specific gender into a statement of identity. "I am biologically male, but I feel uncomfortable performing the gender-tied behaviours of the male and more comfortable performing those of the female; THEREFORE I must be inherently female."

Butler's ideal, I think, would be closer to a society where no one bothers with the labels of "man" or "woman" (I mean these as gender labels not sex labels) and people can perform any behaviour (which, in our current society, we still shackle to positions on a gender spectrum).

By the way all I know of Butler is from reading the intro to her Gender Trouble and from thinking a lot about it, so I can't vouch for the accuracy of what I say.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 13:58:01 2018 No.11805543 >>11804234 Real objects withdraw from human access, but the same is true of cotton in relation to fire. Fire only reacts to certain qualities of cotton. The fire does not, for example, relate to the cotton's "whiteness" but only to its "flammability".

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 14:03:05 2018 No.11805560 >>11805296 Exactly what I mean by intellectual failure

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 14:06:37 2018 No.11805573 >>11805560 It really is time to kill yourself human.

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 14:07:53 2018 No.11805580

>>11804017
>How do leftists in particular reconcile gender theory with the fact that this accelerating proliferation of identities that can be observed in the modern world (including trans and other gender idenities), is the product of capitalism expanding the market of identity?
I like your idea that the proliferation of identities is the product of capitalism, but said identities don't have to be sexual/gender-related. Take Japan. Highly capitalistic, and yet not only is sexual identity largely homogenous, what proliferation there is of sexual identities results from American liberalism (eg the global spread of feminism and gender studies, #MeToo, etc). You cannot say for sure that capitalism per se is the root cause of the proliferation of sexual identities.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 14:16:18 2018 No.11805621 >>11805573 Why's that? Why shouldn't I kill you instead or at least first? After all, two dead humans is better than one, right scum?

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 14:41:23 2018 No.11805724

>>11804892
Society won't become matriarchal if women and men are equal or if no relevant distinction is made between the two genders (not sexes, genders). A woman in power may prefer women, but a man in power would just as likely prefer men.

>>11804946
Ok, it's not an ad hominem. Perhaps my beliefs about the US military are unfounded. But it's not a valid criticism of my beliefs about the ideal role of gender to point out my beliefs about the ideal role of the military. Noam Chomsky isn't a bad linguist because he has a bunch of weird political beliefs. I really don't want a discussion of the US military, because that should not be on /lit/.

>>	Anonymous Tue Sep 18 14:44:39 2018 No.11805741 It's irrational to define gender based on biology. Atoms and chromosomes, it's like categorizing based on whether someone is made of compressed air or fire.

Anonymous Tue Sep 18 15:09:44 2018 No.11805841

I think I might be trans. I read a bit through this thread and I have no idea what to say at all this shit, gender, sex, identity... All I know is that yesterday I was shaking uncontrollably in my bed, couldn't sleep, had horrifying dreams and would be deeply disturbed by thinking about female bodies.
This wankery is boring and useless. I don't want this trans shit happening to me and no remotely sane person does either. It's depressing how the human being, the rational, spiritual core of each of us, is hidden under all this pointless political shitflinging that never leads anywhere. Get the fuck on with your lives. Read a poem that you don't understand. Do something for yourself, take a break from this crusade of saving the world.

Advanced search
Text to find
Subject [?]Search by post subject. Leave empty for any.
Username [?]Search for user name. Leave empty for any user name.
Tripcode [?]Search for tripcode. Leave empty for any.
Email [?]Search by email. Leave empty for any.
Filename [?]Search by image filename. Leave empty for any.
From Date [?]Enter what date to start searching from. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
To Date [?]Enter what date to start searching until. Format is YYYY-MM-DD
Image hash
Search in	All Posts OPs Only
Deleted posts	Show all posts Show only deleted posts Only show non-deleted posts
Internal posts	Show all posts Show only internal posts Show only archived posts
Order	New posts first Old posts first
Capcode	All Posts Only by Users Only by Mods Only by Admins Only by Developers
Results	Posts Threads
Action	[ Simple ]

/lit/ - Literature