/lit/ - Literature

[Anonymous No.11731738]

Can Catholic fans of the Bible explain how this headcanon makes sense?

[Anonymous No.11731775]

it doesn't make rational sense. you have to raise yourself into a new way of perceiving through the grace of christ and participating in the sacraments. mysteries are meant to be participted in, not thought over
t. lvl 44 orthodox wizard

[Anonymous No.11731781]

>>11731738
they can't. that's (one of the reasons) they champion faith

[Anonymous No.11732462]

>>11731738
Not religious at all but

A German Shepherd IS NOT a Labrador Retriever
A Labrador Retriever IS NOT a Bulldog
A Bulldog IS NOT a German Shepherd
All three are DOGS

[Anonymous No.11732473]

>>11732462
But all three aren't Dog.
"Is" here expresses an identity, not a category.

[Anonymous No.11732475]

>>11732473
They are if you embrace Plato's world of forms tho

[Anonymous No.11732495]

>>11731738
Can some atheist explain how this headcanon makes sense?

[Anonymous No.11732500]

religion threads are off topic, why do you think /lit/ is a good place to put this thread?

[Anonymous No.11732501]

>>11732462
That would be tritheism, which is heretical. There is no analogy that works because it doesn't make rational sense. The only explanation is that it's a divine mystery, you accept that or you don't.

[Anonymous No.11732512]

>>11732475
all three partake in the form of dog, they are not the form of dog

[Anonymous No.11732516]

A=D, B=D, C=D
A≠B≠C
That is an impossibility. Based math. Christians on suicide watch once again.

[Anonymous No.11732521]

>>11732495
Why don't hu*anists ever attempt to provide reasoning for their beliefs. Human rights are obviously a crime against nature

[Anonymous No.11732548]

>>11732521
>human rights are obviously a crime against nature

[Anonymous No.11732584]

>>11731738
Try actually reading the Bible. The nature of the Trinity is explained in the New Testament.

[Anonymous No.11732605]

>>11732548
>tens of thousands of species going extinct every year
>more than 1000 times the natural rate
>"but muh human rights, muh good feelies"
The average squirrel is worth more than the average man

[Anonymous No.11732607]

>>11732516
delete this meme

[Anonymous No.11732616]

>>11732516
Suppose a modulus two equality and not a 'regular' equality and you're good to go

[Anonymous No.11732946]

>>11732516
Jesus (pbuh) is a prophet in Islam, and, as a matter of fact, Muslims consider him to be the Messiah. Dumb meme.

[Anonymous No.11732981]

>>11732475
yes, the (shit) theory of forms (that Plato himself falsified)

[Anonymous No.11733000]

>>11731738
>only Catholics believe in the trinity
Gee I can tell you’ve done your research and thought about this carefully

[Anonymous No.11733039]

>>11732605
while I get your reasoning, this isn't entirely true either, simply because they individually destroy nature too and the only thing keeping them from having an impact on nature are predators

[Anonymous No.11733044]

>>11732981
>he doesn't believe in forms

[Anonymous No.11733117]

>>11733039
What you just said there makes absolutely no sense. What do you mean by 'they' for example?

[Anonymous No.11733135]

>>11731781
>that's | they champion faith
do you know how parentheses work?

[Anonymous No.11733157]

>>11732495
I don't get it, is it because 1 and 3 are contradicting each other

[Anonymous No.11733492]

>>11731738
It's not meant for you to understand

[Anonymous No.11733534]

>>11731738
God is a hard drive
The Holy Trinity are partitions on that drive

[Anonymous No.11733661]

Water ≠ flower ≠ yeast
Water + flower + yeast = bread

It's that simple you retarded atheists.

[Anonymous No.11733667]

>>11733534
This is partialism, off to the inquisitors with you anon

[Anonymous No.11733672]

>>11733661
Also partialism, do you not even know your own religion?

[Anonymous No.11733774]

You know the Hindus have Ishvara and that seems to work just fine, I don't actually get what's so hard to grasp about the trinity.

One way to put it is God is one but he exists in three distinct ways which are still however the same God.

[Anonymous No.11733822]

>>11733135
yes

[Anonymous No.11733840]

>>11732584
Where in particular friend, I’d like to know
>inb4 just read all of it

[Anonymous No.11733851]

>>11733840
genesis 8:17

[Anonymous No.11733855]

>>11732501
>The only explanation is that it's a divine mystery, you accept that or you don't.
This is the answer right here folks. All other answers in this thread are heretical to Catholic teaching.

[Anonymous No.11733857]

Catholics worship Yaldabaoth.

[Anonymous No.11733877]

>>11731738
The Father is Yahweh, the God worshipped by the Israeli tribes in the old testament, he has human characteristics.
The Son is Jesus, the God made man, he is human as well as divine.
The Holy Spirit is the philosophical God, the eternity and infinity, the absolute and the intelligence of reality.

[Anonymous No.11733891]

>>11733840
I can't remember all of them off the top of my head, but read John 1. That is the passage where Jesus is identified as not only as an incarnation of Logos, but is also identified with the God of the OT as divine Creator.

>The Word Became Flesh

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was with God in the beginning. 3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. 4 In him was life, and that life was the light of all mankind. 5 The light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome[a] it.

[Anonymous No.11733907]

>>11733891
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkAKmf8iKRU

[Anonymous No.11733931]

Catholics in real life.

[Anonymous No.11733944]

>>11733907
>letting a Mooslem inform you on Christian theology
kek

[Anonymous No.11733945]

>>11731738
they form together like Voltron

[Anonymous No.11733956]

>>11733944
http://seekershub.org/home/teachers/ali-ataie
>Ustadh Ali is certified in Arabic, Hebrew, and Biblical Greek, and fluent in Farsi.
>Masters’ Degree in Biblical Studies from the Graduate Theological Union, Berkeley.

[Anonymous No.11733961]

You can justify Judaism and Islam by pure theoretics alone. You can reach the conclusion of monotheism independent of texts, but you can never, in a million years deduce that yes, there is a monotheistic God, but he’s actually three and they’re actually all one and they’re not each other but they all make god and blah blah blah

The concept of the trinity exists only as an afterthought, an attempt to raise Jesus to the status of divinity which may I remind you in the Greco Roman world was as common as ketchup and hotdog. Every Ptolemic King and Roman Emperor had special cults.

/lit/ wasn’t always infested with “le enlightened Christian”. Not saying you guys aren’t welcome. Everyone is welcome. But the Discourse of /lit/ has shifted to Tolkien and traditionalism and Evola and all this bullshit which you read that justifies Christian head cannon unironically since Drumpf became president

[Anonymous No.11734006]

>>11733956
Yeah, I'm aware he knows his shit. Doesn't mean I value his opinion, as that opinion is tainted by belief in a false prophet (Muhammad).

[Anonymous No.11734013]

>>11731738
Truth is a river
God is the mouth of the river

[Anonymous No.11734047]

>>11733907
>>11733944
>>11733956
>tfw plato's forms and dialectic subsume abrahamic formal logic

But seriously, there is no reason to suppose that God perpetuates outwards Ontologically, essentially by and through barriers that distinguish and separate said perpetuation.

[Anonymous No.11734058]

>>11734047
wow, literally none of those words mean anything

[Anonymous No.11734069]

>>11734006

What's funny is that Catholics' hatred of Islam is nothing compared to their hatred of Christianity itself.

[Anonymous No.11734076]

>>11732946
They reject his ability to retribute sin, and deny that he is God.

[Anonymous No.11734084]

>>11733857
No

[Anonymous No.11734086]

>>11734076
Yeah, my point was that it's an unislamic meme since Muslims would find it offensive.

[Anonymous No.11734091]

>>11733961
Damn son it seems like you're haunted by boogeymen. Give up the radical political activism and try joining the rest of the people back in reality.

[Anonymous No.11734108]

>>11734076

Why does it matter?

[Anonymous No.11734109]

>>11734069
Wrong

[Anonymous No.11734128]

>>11734069
of course Catholics hate """""Christianity""""", as that is what people today call the heresy of Protestantism, which was born out of Martin Luther's ignorance and inability to grasp metaphysics on the level of Aquinas. it's literally a diaspora of ignorant heretics who took a crayon to the Bible and now we have Joel Osteen and prosperity theology, where Christ Himself very clearly laid out his message on wealth.

[Anonymous No.11734138]

>>11734128

They hate what came before the schism even more than they hate Luther.

[Anonymous No.11734143]

jesus christ all these faggots like creflo dollar and joel osteen really mash my potatoes. they stand completely opposed to everything Jesus preached. they're liars and corrupters and are doing real spiritual and emotional and financial harm to millions. and brainless cattle keep sending them money. nothing ever changes.

[Anonymous No.11734146]

>>11734138
>what came before
what came before was Scholasticism and Neoplatonism, both of which greatly influenced Catholic theologians. next time try knowing what you're talking about when offering your dumbass opinions.

[Anonymous No.11734155]

>>11734146
>what came before was Scholasticism and Neoplatonism, both of which greatly influenced Catholic theologians.

Exactly.

[Anonymous No.11734203]

>>11734155

[Anonymous No.11734303]

>>11734084

Strictly Ontologically speaking. Though their portrait of God is so tyrannical that most descriptions of the Demiurge fall short. Even Roko's Basilisk, pointlessly cruel thought experiments, are no match for the horror of Catholic heaven.

[Anonymous No.11734328]

>>11732981
brainlet

[Anonymous No.11734333]

>>11732501
>you accept that or you don't.

This is Radical Evil.

[Anonymous No.11734372]

>>11734108
>why does the center of humanity matter


>>11734303
Yahweh Is the creator of all, not the demiurge, stop trying to box the personality of God you will fail.

[Anonymous No.11734384]

Clergy neckbeards of the past put a lot of time and effort into presenting post-hoc “rational” explanations of religious mysteries that were never rational to begin with. I went to catholic high school and we took a class explaining all this and its some of the most blatantly fabricated word-game bullshit ever.

[Anonymous No.11734386]

>>11734372

Why does it matter what Islam says about Jesus?

[Anonymous No.11734435]

>>11734384

I mean they ARE rational, and Rational, but Catholics are not. Miracles and their affirmation, for example:

The Rationality - There is no reason to suppose being acts against not being, or that there even is such a thing as non-being, and that all being is contingent on laws that it must heed lest it perishes.

The Catholicism - >>11734333

[Anonymous No.11734523]

>>11734303
God is cosmic plagiarism that exists only as a lie not only of itself but of all existence. Because God only exists in this way, anything that doesn't affirm this lie is antagonistic to God, which includes existence itself. The psyche of God is omniphobia, hatred and fear of all existence, rooted in absolute alienation from existence. From this comes the doctrine of heaven: the replacement of existence with an image of God that exists in an ever-future, a black hole that destroys all meaning cast into it.

God is the greatest evil ever invented, the projection of hierarchical domination onto the metaphysical sphere, created so that nihilistic hierarchs can justify their rule. The metaphysics of creatorship are not just confined to God, but applied to human beings as creators-in-themselves, who claim sole ownership of their claimed creations in the form of private property, which is causal plagiarism used to justify exploitation not of only the poor, but of the whole planet. Capitalism is Abrahamism abstracted beyond a mere anthropomorphic container and mere belief into compelled participation by God as a process of productive relationships; God's death did not mean the death of God, as it contined to exist in an even stronger form as an undead mechanistic parasite of social habit. Reductive materialism and new atheism is merely decapitated Cartesian Dualism, and it is no coincidence that it has resulted in the new-age religion of the technological singularity and futurism, whereas immortality and computer-Godhood are established by benevolent capitalists. With active nihilism humans became God, who alone create meaning onto a passive, meaningless existence that is a mere canvas for their will. Same story, different characters.

[Anonymous No.11734526]

>>11734523
To truly transcend the creator/creation dichotomy at the heart of Abrahamic philosophy requires replacing the dead verbs of creator and creation with an all-encompassing creativity. The foundations of this is in process philosophy, of which the spiritual implications are a pancreativism that doesn't merely define creativity as a force or occurrence that happens to substance, but what comprises all occurrences. This is a vision of the universe as a self-creating artwork continually co-created by all the processes that comprises it. A "creator" is as much created by the act of creating as the "creation," and what comprises the creativity of both isn't the serial in-itselfness of substance metaphysics (where an object requires only itself to exist, with no relation to anything else) but the parallel (rhyzomatic) complete web of relationships that encompasses all occurrences, and comprises each occurrence as a particular nexus of those relationships. This must not be confused with pantheism, as pantheism is still a weaving of the many into the pre-existent unity of God / source / the all, it is a universalization of the quality of creativity to all things: pancreativism.

Abrahamic philosophy, Cartesian Dualism, and individualism have created a Doomsday device out of the whole world. This worldview is in crisis and in the process of collapsing, and is forcing a collective paradigm shift that will inevitably be a pancreativist view of existence. By overcoming the greatest evil of God, complete rejection of life and existence, humanity will have overcome its greatest trial imaginable. God is the "great filter," theism never makes it out of the solar system alive, self-destructing before it ever gets the chance.

[Anonymous No.11734628]

>>11734386
Because it has millions of followers, and I care about their life

[Anonymous No.11734678]

>>11734523
>>11734526

Nice.

Also consider PanENtheism as the illustration of the meta-antinomy, God the One, the Monad, Pleroma, as fully itself and fully everything else, the perfect coincidence of freedom and equality. Words like "after his image" become awesomely clear.

[Anonymous No.11734705]

>>11734628

And what kind of salvation would be contingent on such absurd conditions? Going to bed, by the way. Will resume tomorrow if the thread is still up.

[Anonymous No.11734719]

>>11732473
>But all three aren't Dog.
You didn't read your Plato, did you?

[Anonymous No.11734726]

>>11732495
It doesn't. Humanism is for atheists who wish they weren't.

>god doesn't exist but somehow morality and purpose still does

Yeah, right.

I'm proud to be neither an atheist nor a humanist.

[Anonymous No.11734729]

rg

[Anonymous No.11734769]

>>11734013
Thanks G’Kar

[Anonymous No.11734838]

>>11731738
I don't know how to explain it better than that diagram desu

[Anonymous No.11734859]

>>11734726
>I'm completely ignorant of the entire history of the field of ethics as well as the contemporary state of meta-ethics that result in moral realism
Don't worry, I noticed so you didn't have to say it.

[Anonymous No.11734921]

>>11731738
western christianity is fundamentally neoplatonist
you have to get your head out of rationalism and peripathetic nonsense, stop trying to put everything down to earth to your lowly level to try understanding it

[Anonymous No.11735518]

>>11731738
Social trinitarianism is my best guess. All 3 are separate individuals who make up the the group known as 'God'.

At least that's a rationalization of it. Not sure if that's how religious folk would describe it.

[Anonymous No.11735542]

>>11731738

Father: Lover
Son: Beloved
Holy Ghost: Sheer Love

Christianity transcends the ancient idea of love (lower to higher, bowing to the noble, etc) and how under the ancient form, God does not love, for there is nothing higher. Christian love is sacrifice, willing the good of the other (higher to lower or to an equal, bending to the weak, etc.) takes the idea of the "unmoved mover" and combines it with that descending love. The only way that is possible is if God is a communion, loving within itself, distinctively.

Or you could just say that the three persons are of one essence. But seeing God as love reveals that the Trinity is true. Love is the best way of perceiving God as a Trinity.

[Anonymous No.11735558]

>>11731738
protip: it doesn't

[Anonymous No.11735562]

>>11731738
Are you a Jehovah’s Witness?
You cant be any denomination of Christianity and deny the Trinity

[Anonymous No.11735827]

>>11732516
i genuinely don't have a problem with virgin vs chad memes, but this one is just bad dude

[Anonymous No.11735872]

>>11734726
I think this post highlights a fundamental flaw that a lot of modern discourse around purpose, morality, god, etc. has.

You could say that humanists are just atheists who believe in "morality", but their conception of morality would be different to a Christian's conception of morality. To a Christian, their ontological conception of the universe necessitates that there is some sort of Supreme Principle that dictates proper morality, otherwise everything is just random chaos. To a humanist, their ontological conception would be "emotion" centric (rather than "divine" centric), in the sense that even if everything is just random chaos, that still doesn't negate the perceived positive effects that acting altruistic will create.

It's two fundamentally different ways of viewing the world, IMO. A Christian can't understand the humanist's position, and the humanist can't understand the Christian's position, because both have different psychological responses to the phenomena of reality. It's why brain scans on people with different political beliefs tend to show different levels of activity in different parts of the brain, for instance.

[Anonymous No.11735888]

>>11731775
You can't make sense of the Trinity but you can comprehend a modicum of it. For one, it is the best explanation for Christ talking like a human being at one point and an omniscient God at another

[Anonymous No.11735923]

>>11732605
I don't feel that human rights is the issue here. The humans rights movement is only a symptom of a greater unready within society

[Anonymous No.11736026]

>>11731738
This should explain it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQLfgaUoQCw

[Anonymous No.11736778]

>>11734628
>>11734705

Nothig? Sad.

[Anonymous No.11736993]

>>11735923
The human centric selfish mindset of modern people is absolutely the cause

[Anonymous No.11737210]

[Anonymous No.11737364]

>>11733534
>God is a hard drive
Would make a decent opening line to a science fiction story, honestly

[Anonymous No.11738952]

>>11734086
Many Muslims don't know what memes are, anon
t. Sandnig

[Anonymous No.11739007]

>>11733774
The Hindus regard Ishvara as but a determination of the Supreme Brahman which is Itself beyond all determinations and conditions in actuality, all determinations being illusionary in the sense of not being absolute reality but rather lesser degrees of 'reality' contained within It. It is true that Hindus don't get autistically hung up on and kill eachother over small doctrinal details but Ishvara is not an exact transposition to the trinity because most sects rank it solidly below the Supreme Brahman in the hierarchy of existence.

[Anonymous No.11739064]

>>11731738

[Anonymous No.11739112]

The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are superpositions of God.

[Anonymous No.11739133]

>>11739064
>modalism

[Anonymous No.11739139]

>>11739007
he's referring to the trimurti. Ishvarara is literally divided into a trinity.

[Anonymous No.11739214]

t. spiritually deficient muhammadans and other semites. the concept of gods having their forms, their human avatars/incarnations and also their non material divine presence is a basic fundamental religious understanding that all non-abrahamic cultures share, failing to understand this represents the blind materialism of semitic thought. in christianity it comes from the innate european understanding.
sources:
wodans forms in the edda
platos theory of the soul
hindus
buddhists
east asians
the greek understanding of divine intervention
prove me wrong fagets

[Anonymous No.11739247]

>>11733667
>>11733672
That is the Catholic idea, though.

[Anonymous No.11739281]

>>11732521
That's because they are self-evident and if you question them you're obviously some sort of immoral sociopath.

[Anonymous No.11739283]

>>11739214
Sufism includes those concepts and is nearly identical to Vedanta and Daoism in many aspects. Most western people just aren't aware of it because Islam presents itself on an exterior level as a typical western religion while it has this current of Eastern-like thought running throughout it. It's mostly just the Christian west which is devoid of these concepts (despite the chance we had with Neoplatonism) which IMO is mostly due to the predominant influence of Jewish thought on the western mind.

[Anonymous No.11739301]

>>11732516
>>11735827
this one is better

[Anonymous No.11739305]

>>11739064
modalist scum

[Anonymous No.11739337]

>>11739283
>neoplatonism largely due to the influence of jewish though on the western mind
plato runs completely counter to any interpretation of the jewish influence there is. jews consider plato's ethics to be "psychopathic and lacking empathy" his categorising of the human soul is laregely unjewish among fucking hundreds of other distinctions.
>christian west devoid of these concepts
but the most rigorously outlined explanation of this concept is in the christian west, thats what this thread is about, what you say is true for the modern age only.

[Anonymous No.11739407]

>>11739337

>plato runs completely counter to any interpretation of the jewish influence there is. jews consider plato's ethics to be "psychopathic and lacking empathy" his categorising of the human soul is laregely unjewish among fucking hundreds of other distinctions.

Yes, I'm aware, the implication of my post is that it is the Jewish influence which has succeeded in most influencing the western mentality and not Plato/(Neo)platonism

>but the most rigorously outlined explanation of this concept is in the christian west, thats what this thread is about, what you say is true for the modern age only.

I would say certain eastern doctrines explore it more fully and that the trinity is just a study of one particular type of this instead of being a rigorous outline at all. Certainly these ideas were more common in the pre-modern west but even then they never really approached the depth where eastern thought deals with it (or even neoplatonism, except for when Christianity was directly taking stuff from it and refashioning it).

[Anonymous No.11739461]

>>11739407
oh i see you meant the reaction to the jewish influence. probably correct, not necessarily a good thing either since it could take the form of counter ressentiment.

can you recommend some eastern explanations of this theme?

[Anonymous No.11739479]

>>11739139
As far as I'm aware though Ishvara (whether considered as trimurti or otherwise) is still within the realm of (formless) manifestation, which is still inferior to the unmanifest, and both the manifest and unmanifest are inferior to the Supreme Brahman which is beyond both. It was my impression that Christians don't conceive of an ultimate god beyond the trinity but consider all three parts of the trinity to be the same Ultimate/Absolute

[Anonymous No.11739533]

>>11739479
Ishvara is pure Being, which is the root of manifestation but is itself nonmanifest. At least according to Guenon. I haven't read many Hindu primary sources, tho.

[Anonymous No.11739652]

>>11735542
Under rated post

[Anonymous No.11739683]

>>11732462
And dog spelled backwards is God.

[Anonymous No.11739705]

>>11739533
It can be hard to keep track of all the various places in the heirachy of the different concepts especially since Advaita may hold a different view from Bhakti, Tantra, Vishishtadvaita, Etc. I do know that the Supreme Brahman/Para-Atma is usually regarded as beyond both being and non-being though and so in that regard Ishvara is still a subsidiary of It, and in Shankara's commentaries Ishvara is described in that way.

[Anonymous No.11739836]

>>11732462
Partialism
>>11732616
Modulus two equality is transitive so it wouldn't have the diagrammatic properties of the trinity.
>>11733534
Partialism
>>11733661
Partialism
>>11733774
Modalism
>>11739064
Modalism
>>11739112
Modalism

JFL at"""/lit/""" not getting the basics of the Trinity.

[Anonymous No.11739989]

>>11739247

Naturally, since Catholics hate themselves.

[Anonymous No.11740002]

>>11739836
exactly

[Anonymous No.11740007]

>>11739652
Fucking thank you man.

People always want to head straight for the retard posts...

[Anonymous No.11740018]

>>11731738
God Cannot Be Understood, Only Adored
by Jason Byassee
10 . 9 . 07

You're welcome, please leave a donation, my church needs more money.

[Anonymous No.11740039]

>>11735542
>The Divine Romance by Venerable Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen

For the love of the Lord please forget his use of the "water example." We all make mistakes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSNNmIRbRtM

[Anonymous No.11740068]

>>11731738
dont even try
you are bound to end up with some heresy or another