Some comments about life

[Convalescent No.11707465]

I have postulated a prerequisite stage to Nietzsche's camel-lion-newborn conception: the nomad. One must first overcome the nomadic phase and settle down into one's culture.

I used to try to figure out where I was in N's theory; I often thought I was a lion due to by indignant atheism and general repulsiveness and inclination to tear everything apart. But I quickly realized how ignorant I was: I had never comprehended the culture and tradition of the West and yet I was inclined to destroy it.

So then I figured I must be a camel (the beast of burden) and set out to shoulder my new duties and responsibilities. But alas, here I came to an impasse! I couldn't decipher the norms of my own culture, I didn't know what I should be absorbing.

Everything swirling around me seemed superficial. What is Western culture anymore? Jeans, rock-and-roll, fast food, Hollywood. But this isn't enough! How can one base one's life on any of this? And as I reflected on my enduring depression things became much clear to me.

The state of the West's Culture is decrepit and depraved, speak nothing of degenerate. It fundamentally prevents one from even beginning the camel phase. It hides the last vestiges of what might have led to a peaceful, virtuous life. (I remember, not too long ago, how I suddenly realized how seldom the word "virtue" is even used in the "public consciousness".)

So I am a nomad. And I suspect many of you are as well. We haven't settled down because we don't know how: the Culture has evaporated; we are taught nothing, we know nothing.

So the question is, how do we overcome the nomadic stage? We must somehow resist and pull back the inertia of the culture while not being "newborn".

Maybe I'm off here and my experience is singular: an isolated case. But there are my two cents on life, maybe one of you lads can relate.

[Anonymous No.11707494]

"English please."

[Anonymous No.11707511]

>be nomadic people
>live off the land
>have no need for medicine or the stupid Lefty/Rightycare debates
>the trees contain all the medicine you need
>if you get a hint of nihilism just move to a new place because there are countless beautiful centres in the forest which is your home
>it is so beautiful that the animals follow you where you go
>no landlords or corporate neighbours drinking your milkshake
>be NEETchuh
>be a NEET
>pretend to be a superhuman
>meanwhile stuck in a dusty stinky room
>die slowly as your shit parents' nagging voices become your death memory

[Convalescent No.11707512]

>>11707494
Do you relate or not? What do you think of the culture? Is it strong enough to live off of?

I was hoping to start a discussion.

[Convalescent No.11707524]

>>11707511
Do you think that it is best not to think about life then? To live just means to look at beautiful things?

I mean, if you want to live in an opium den then go ahead, but don't expect me to follow you.

[Anonymous No.11707543]

>>11707465
>we know nothing
I know that you're an idiot

[Anonymous No.11707547]

>>11707524
Though you are right about the nihilism present in western culture

[Convalescent No.11707568]

>>11707543
Why are you so cruel man? I mean, jeez, if you have a different opinion at least state it and present an argument. I am genuinely curious about what people have to say.

[Anonymous No.11707624]

>>11707465
This is just the Camel. You've reverted.

[Anonymous No.11707668]

>>11707624
But camel already knows what he has to do.

[Anonymous No.11707725]

>>11707668
So did you. You say there is no culture, but then describe it but say it isn't enough. You're a camel because even though you have realized this you're still putting yourself in a subordinate position (essentially saying 'this isn't enough, but there has to be something out there to find'). You've looked into the abyss but turned back.

Rather than being the beast of burden you've just collapsed, while thinking you're still moving.

[Anonymous No.11707750]

You have to be 18+ to post here.

[Anonymous No.11707755]

>>11707750
based rule poster

[Anonymous No.11707777]

>>11707725
>this isn't enough, but there has to be something out there to find
literally me

[Convalescent No.11707779]

>>11707725
>There is no culture
Well, yeah, there isn't. Do you disagree?

>but then describe it but say it isn't enough
People use the word culture and I observe this. You cant live off of Pepsi and Apple. You cant live off of what people call culture.

>You're a camel because even though you have realized this you're still putting yourself in a subordinate position...'this isn't enough, but there has to be something out there to find'
But I don't think there is anything to find. Culture must be created, but that is the duty of the newborn.

So the problem is: people cannot become proper 'camels' because there is no Culture; whatever had once been created is now in the ebb and flow of nihilism. To change this situation, one must be strong enough to be a newborn. But how can one become a newborn without going through the first few stages?

>you've just collapsed
I had collapsed at one point. Now I think I've isolated myself even from my depression. Now I look at the world with Socratic curiosity and wonder what is to be done.

What do you think is to be done.

[Convalescent No.11707789]

>>11707750
Please put some effort in before posting. I'm trying to have a discussion about the most important things.

[Anonymous No.11708002]

There's no home anymore, it can only be found in the agony of longing.

[Anonymous No.11708011]

>>11707524
Wasn't my point.
I was only saying that nomadic peoples are not what we perceive them to be. They had something vital which we have lost, so it may not be a great figure/analogy for your theory of becoming.

[Anonymous No.11708162]

You seem concerned about this, so I will give you my thoughts, for what they are worth.
We are all Jews now, exiled and in exodus but with nowhere to go, no possibility of rebuilding the Temple. And I do not mean this in some crude anti-Semitic sense (and in fact this may reveal something deeper about such thoughts arising within the political sphere), it is simply a matter that has found us, fallen into our world. In a sense you are correct to say that we are nomadic, but we are not nomads because we are immobilised (despite all appearances of mass transport and industry collapsing the world). It is only a small part of us which wanders while the rest of our being is extricated.
I wrote this not too long ago if you are interested in more in-depth thoughts. Although I do not prescribe anything directly, to say the least, the questions you are raising here are at the core of the writing's purpose.
http://mandalietmandaliet.blogspot.com/2018/08/britannia-interiouso.html

[Anonymous No.11708286]

>>11707465
Culture is a silly way for people to justify their actions in the context of their observation of others. Luckily, it is quite good at multiplying the ways one can spend their lives, at creating new niches and places no less valid than any other which preceded them.
It can feel hollow. But the way out of nihilistic skepticism isn't outward - it is inward. You must question your own epistemic methodology, and realize the linguistic limitations of reductionism. Why does it matter that certain things are "just" something? It is in simplicity that acceptance comes, and in complexity that catharsis follows.

[Convalescent No.11708327]

>>11708286
Perhaps you can help me with another problem I've been stumbling over: did Socrates corrupt the youth? That is to say, what is the role of reason in one's life? What does justification matter?

After studying medieval philosophy for a bit I've become all too familiar with the phrase "faith seeking understanding." For the longest time I have wanted to invert this line ("understanding seeking faith") but have seen no way out.

The legitimacy of faith now seems stronger by a thousand-fold, as I have seen, I have lived the life of "reason" and seen where it leads.

That is a bit incoherent, my thoughts on this matter are not at all put in order.

[Convalescent No.11708355]

>>11708162
You are right to say I am concerned about this. I am greatly concerned. You know, sometimes words just don't seem to cut it, they just sit there like dead signs. How can one really express oneself? I suppose only by reawakening in the other what that one has already experienced.

But anyway, I gave your essay a read. I even gave it a second read. It has certainly led me to me to think of writing an essay like it, in order to get my thoughts down (so that I can see what they even are).

I am curious: what do you prescribe? How do you answer the question of how to live one's life?

[Anonymous No.11708385]

>>11708327
The "justification for justification" is the SINGLE greatest concrete problem facing the philosophically minded today. It is of course biological, and paradoxically conducive to social progress. I've thought about it a lot and have only reached an absurd conclusion - that there is, for every question, a "productive limit" to self-justification, which is to say, a unique stopping point for every inquiry, past which the question either dissolves entirely or branches aimlessly.
I conclude that it is the nature of our questions, linguistically, that entrap us so. Wittgenstein speaks on this, and in him I found some solidarity.
The problem with justification and its limits are so pressing because to the "wise", they are immediately practical. We can live on "instinct" (quotes because this word tends to be used reductively when it shouldn't be), but then, what of morals? And so, quite elegantly, we return to the core: does it matter how we live and why?
Here's a comforting, if mystifying thought. Nature, on conceiving life, "decided," as we observe it, that we should reproduce. Why do you think nature "chose" this? Is that same Nature which hard rationalists defer to so readily, just as arbitrary as we are in its apparent "wants"?

[Convalescent No.11708464]

>>11708385
Wittgenstein does say something like 'all explanations come to an end somewhere.' I have been trained in mathematics and computer science. I am particularly knowledgable in the deductive sciences. Ethics, it seems to me, is a deductive branch of knowledge: it moves from the "self-evident" to the particular and often unclear. But here is the problem of all problems, what I think you are getting at by saying "the SINGLE greatest concrete problem": there are no ethical principles as self-evident and authoritative as, say, the axiom that for every two points there is a line connecting them. And here is where I get lost. I don't know how to do anything from here.

In fact, I just wrote up a bit of a schizophrenic, diary entry. I don't really get embarrassed so I'll share it here, but I do anticipate that it'll be hard to understand. Here it is:

Sickness crawls towards the soul. Whence comes this most gruesome foe? I am sick, or believe I am at any rate. I definitely was sick at one time but am not sure any more. Now I just feel queer; is this the moment of convalescence? Or has the sickness simply mutated, changed its mask? One effect of this has been that I don’t know what to do with myself. Do you hear me? I don’t know what to do with myself! To act? What is there to say even? And so I decline; I was dishonest earlier: I am certainly no convalescent. I once thought I would be a schizophrenic. Maybe I am, who knows? What is normal? O what’s the point of it anyway. I don’t know what to do? Relax; don’t panic? But I am not panicking, not yet anyways. But I still don’t know what to do. The store has been robbed and everything is gone. I cant see straight. What is value? Something I know nothing of. That’s a lie. Because you see, I do value something, or rather, I disvalue something. You see, I hate myself, always have, as long as I can remember. I hate myself more fully than anything else. How could there be anything else with this much hate? But it is true, I hate myself. In the abyss, in the confusion of states, I resort to what any animal does: I become a hedonist. I watch porn, too much. I play video games, also too much. I have become overweight. I pop pills. I do what I can to distract myself. I do what any lowly animal does: I seek the nearest light, the instant rush of sensation. And I hate it. Do you hear me? I hate myself. O what have I become my friend? How can I escape this most gruesome life?

[Convalescent No.11708479]

I'll add, for biographical purposes, that the character I must closely relate to, perhaps mistakenly, is Dostoevsky's underground man.

I know suicide is the end of the path I'm on. That is why I want to get off of it. Nietzsche, you know, was right when he said that the cure to all pessimism is sickness. Whenever I have come close to death I have had the remarkable ability to seize hold of myself, to "get a grip", at least for a day or two. But then that rush subsides and I'm back to where I was. How do I get off this path?

[Anonymous No.11708481]

>>11708355
"Only a God can save us." But, ironically, a bit like your question, we must find the Gods. Heidegger's answer is limited by its Christianity, and in the Greek sense I do not think that the Gods are overly concerned with us - at least in a positive/benevolent sense. The worldliness of the Christian God is both its great strength and its Achilles' heel, if you will.
Unfortunately, I do not see any return to the values or figures of becoming you are seeking to hold on to. They are lost, we are tending gardens within a wildfire while our people have somehow learned to feed in the smoke. Such is the problem of 'nihilism', everyone has found meaning in it but us last few who refuse to relinquish ourselves to it.
And so I think, perhaps too, our criticisms of nihilism are limited by the narrative grounded in Christian thought. Nietzsche did not escape this problem because his prescriptions were entirely of a Christian and worldly thinking. What is more nihilistic than the immortal god relinquishing himself unto mortality?
There is a deeper problem which caused this chasm of the earth from the laws which birthed it. So there can be only recognition of this, and a potential striving of return, or simple waiting until the absolute cataclysm - and some hope that a few of us will survive equipped to contend with the Gods.
You might say I am a little pessimistic... And yet we must live within these end times which seem without end and retain our humanity. Cultivation of the Gods seems to be the only hope. Working towards a new mythology may be the only chance we have to survive what is coming, and at the very least it will be how we retain our own values as the monster charges towards the cliff.
I suppose you could say that my first step was reconciling with Fate, knowing that I have only my own gravitas which cannot overcome the gravity of a trillion tonne beast lumbering towards the depths. Either we will survive or we will not. There is little I can do but survive, and I do not mean this in a nihilistic or hedonistic sense. If anything, we are provided with a greater spiritual challenge than any other time.

[Anonymous No.11708493]

based girard-deleuzo-fag

[Anonymous No.11708497]

>>11708481
>try to survive
I realise this is probably riddled with contradictions. Such is life in this age.

[Anonymous No.11708498]

>>11708464
Coincidentally, I am trained in physics and computer science. There should be a self-evident ethics, but the entire conception of the "ought" class of thoughts is flawed beyond the capacity for rational penetration. It is something we have truly fucked into our minds, for the contrived, posthuman glory of a society, bigger and more complex than any one person.
Don't hate your animalism, there is no escaping it. Consider the alternative (or the lack of any better ones), consider a "codeless" thinking being, one not predisposed to any action, which can only observe and understand (perhaps this is what it means to be God). It is because we are thus predisposed and also critical things that we create so much "friction" in investigating our actions.

[Convalescent No.11708505]

>>11708481
I think you are right about mythology. Thank you, anon

[Convalescent No.11708579]

>>11708498
Thank you, anon. You have a very bright mind.

Do you know what I find so tiresome? The "Know thyself" philosophers (Peter Kreeft, a professor at Boston College--my alma mater, is one such example). Kreeft, to all appearances is a decent man and all, but at the same time peddles this horrific nonsense that can only lead to annihilation. "Know thyself". I know myself quite well, thank you very much, and let me tell you, it is quite ugly. I mean it is really ugly. To think that anything has ever existed that is as worthless and depraved as I am is just too much for me. So what now, Socrates? The whole scientific enterprise is devoted to building this great horrific machine, the ultimate annihilator. As Nietzsche could already point out: science has proven that it can take values away. He was much too optimistic when he ventured the possibility that it may provide some new values, one day, a claim the likes of Sam Harris like to pick up and run with.

I tried, I mean really tried, to talk to a philosophy professor about the chasm between "is" and "ought" and he only grew frustrated at me. He said my "arguments" weren't good (as if the claim required any to begin with). I've always thought that when we have two concepts like "is" and "ought", the burden is on the other side to show that they are in fact the same, or at least related. And you know what, that side, those "advocates", have given it their best shot, they tried with all their might, and they failed. They failed miserably.

And so yippy me. Born circa 2000 AD. God is dead. And I still don't have a fucking clue about how to live my life.

[December !!TY0+NRMplWe No.11708600]

Thanks for the laugh, OP.

[Anonymous No.11708601]

Here's a thought: Kill yourself or fuck off

[Anonymous No.11708656]

>>11707524
The most beautiful thing about great trees are the roots

[Anonymous No.11708664]

>>11708579
The problem first manifested for me some time ago, when I considered, "are all the things I love in life built upon different Why's? Are all my aspirations unjustifiable?"
I was lost, but therein lay the true power of culture, which is oft unseen, unused by the content: a plethora of passions to find in life. Despite the task appearing tall, it is possible to discover something you truly love doing, especially with the help of medication to help you escape your rut. Anything you want to do is justifiable, and the death of relative value as a concept, while tragic in some respects for the mind, is also genuinely liberating (and not in the sense that the ignorant speak about nihilism being "liberating" somehow - it isn't). Luckily for me, my ethics were never very tightly bound to my aspirations in life (I am truly a Son of the Culture, I suppose), and if this differs for you, the approach of course requires more subtlety.

[Anonymous No.11708681]

>>11707779
Culture is much more deeprooted than you think. You focus on the artifacts and not the underlying assumptions. Read Schein

[Convalescent No.11708699]

>>11708600
>>11708601
I guess you both prove my point about Culture and all. Its people like you that will be the death of this board (which I guess is already half-dead).

[Convalescent No.11708729]

>>11708681
Thanks anon. Could you elaborate on the "assumptions" of Culture?

[Anonymous No.11708766]

>>11708600
>It's a tripfag making fun of ANYONE else episode
>It's a JBP fan making fun of ANYONE else episode
How entirely drolllll

[Anonymous No.11708787]

>>11707465
Heres what I think. Culture is a group narrative game that kinsfolk play to organize all the things we interact with. You say you don't understand the culture because its so vapid, but you do understand it. You don't see a bunch of people under a shed standing around and say "wtf are they doing?" You see people waiting for the bus. But in the camel stage you do have a passive role. Perhaps your anti-establishment position was just from one of the many sub-cultures that larp as radicals. That is how you stop any progress. You just coagulate it into a sub-culture.

>>11707777
>7777
Excellent quads frend.

>>11708464
Rejoice you despiser! Only lovers despise! But that being said, you aren't acting like an animal. You are acting all-too-human. Animals don't devise perverse mechanisms to detach themselves from visceral being. If you want to escape "this most gruesome fate," you might want to consider reading Wilhelm Reich. That is not all you have to do of course, but its a start.